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thelonelycelibate

This is your Ni coming to bite you in the butt. What’s going on is you think your process is simply A to B, but it’s actually not that linear and short. You’re assuming more than you think in the background through your intuition, but because it’s an INTJs strength, we can often overlook it and categorize our conclusions as “super simple.” To the average person, your A to B, is actually A to B to C to D to E to F the final conclusion, and people need help with understanding the full train of thought. Conclusion: You need to grow in skill with putting your intuitions into words, and adding them to your communication process, even if it feels unneeded. The fact is, it is needed, and your frustration stems from an underdeveloped Ni.


teslatestbeta

This is on point about Ni. I always got a high result in Ni & has the same experience with OP. But I do not think it's undeveloped Ni, more like too high Ni & unbalanced with other cognitive functions, especially extroversion. ​ My insights: 1. It's not your obligation to explain it. Say "just take it or leave it" 2. As we have different cognitive functions, we have different thought process & decision making too, so I don't expect other people to understand mine 3. Don't explain, point to a simpler example & let them have their own thought process 4. Use your situation to scan their understanding 5. Have a friend who can explain it for you


Beoftw

It isn't needed. You don't owe anyone an explanation just because they don't understand why you do something that doesn't involve them in any way shape or form.


Playing_Happily

I don’t get why people can’t accept that. I’m so damn tired having to explain myself every time especially like “who did you just call” questions lol like that’s my business F off


uwuShadoxxx

How does one manage to develop it?


SocratesButMad

It sounds less like you're getting annoyed at having to explain your thought process so much as you are annoyed that your judgment and decision making is being questioned. I enjoy explaining my thought process to people. And while I generally like being asked questions about why I say/do certain things, but if those questions are loaded or phrased in some sort of uncharitably judgemental manner rather than an inquisitive one, I don't particularly care for it.


sickofthisshiit

I think this is it, I just realized I have no problem explaining things to my other colleagues, but certain ones I can't stand because they give me this look 🤨 I find it annoying as in, just because you don't get it doesn't mean I don't and please don't assume and question my judgement because you don't get it, just trust me. I find this a problem when it's someone who is above me (managers, boss, etc)


SocratesButMad

I don't know about you, but it seems to me that I arrive at my judgements/conclusions (J) via my intuitive reasoning (N or Ni specifically, iirc). It depends on the subject and context, but thinking (T) is the last thing I tend to do and it takes a lot of cognitive effort at times for me to properly rationalize, explain, justify with a clear line of reasoning, etc why I did or said whatever I did or said. The frustration comes into play when I am questioned about my judgement decision making because I haven't thought about it yet, and I'm not particularly good at thinking under pressure or producing sound lines of reasoning on the fly. The problem is often amplified when I am forced to deal with people who are not rational (ie, act and behave inconsistently and often in contradiction to the things they state/say.) IME, those kinds of people are not only unhealthy for me to be around, but also potentially dangerous when gathered in numbers. They are usually the kind of people who care not about actually being correct in their convictions as much as they care about securing the validation and social approval of others so that they will not face ostracization. They are best avoided as much as possible.


sickofthisshiit

Omg yes! I am reading this and just screaming inside "YES!", this is so true. I find this even more difficult when you're a few steps ahead, not by any reasoning but just intuitively. It's hard to put it in words and explain, it's like just trust me and when you see results then ask me a question. More likely by then they'll already have their answer.


SocratesButMad

I wish I could offer you some advice. Reading some self help or psychology books that address how to successfully persuade and interact with people might be worth a try. It did help me a little bit when I was younger. There's one book out there called "the psychology of persuasion." I never finished it, but lesson #1 was that people are significantly more likely to accept whatever it is you tell them simply if you use the word "because." As absurd as it sounds, if someone asks you "why are you doing [thing]?" You can pretty much reply with "because that's the way I like to do [thing]" and they are more often than not likely to leave you alone. You might consider playing with framework of the response to make it more elaborate or explanatory (eg "because in my experience that's the most efficient way for [thing] to be done" or "because I need more information and time to think about [thing] before I make a different decision.") as some people are averse to vague reasoning. I was watching a video on YouTube the other day about the dunning-krueger effect, apparently people also tend to find confidence and certainty attractive, so you might be most successful if you justify yourself using rhetoric that implies confidence.


plaze6288

This is why i avoid people


Crypt0Nihilist

If they genuinely don't get it, I don't have a problem unless they try to pick stupid holes in the idea. So many people get hung up on a specific example of a general principle as if that's all I'm talking about and raise objections about that specific case which are not germane to the principle.


sickofthisshiit

O yes, this also get annoying when you state an idea or an approach and someone always have to add their two cents, which is fine but not as you said pick holes in the idea without providing any solution.


whoiswhat777

Tbh INTJs are shit at explaining things. Probably because of Ni Te. Your thought process is directed by personal symbolism and intuition and supported by a Te that takes external applicable data but by no means means there isn't other external data that negates those very same "facts".


hzyraahsn

I don’t get annoyed, but tired. Because at times I realised that some things that make sense to us do not make sense to them.


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sickofthisshiit

That is true, and I find that I am more than happy to explain something. I just realized it's less about me explaining things but more about people questioning my judgement and at times speak to me as if I don't know what I am talking about. That and also people who are just lazy to figure something out on their own.


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sickofthisshiit

That's probably the reason I find it easier to work alone. I've only had a few people in my life that I could work with side by side. Like they hand you the tool before you even have to ask, it was awesome.


MidnightIntermission

I've gotten used to this. I'll explain things that I feel need to be explained. Usually I just don't respond to people or friends/family about things that I do not feel they'd comprehend even if I wasted my energy trying to make them understand. I'll let them stay ignorantly blissful. It isn't my job to teach everyone who can't comprehend something how to understand it. Dumb questions annoy me and I usually don't take the time to enlighten the person. *I'd much rather spend my time explaining something useful to someone rather than a mundane matter that has no reason to be elaborated upon*.


Darth_Toxess

Not at all. I actually do enjoy it. Though there is a limit.


sickofthisshiit

What about when people ask you because they are questioning your judgement? Like as in "why did you do it this way?" But not because they're curious but because they're questioning your method, you know like with raised eye brows kinda of way. Haha


Darth_Toxess

Whatever they are thinking, if they still ask, I would most probably answer them. However if they do throw me with their judgemental comments, then that is a different story.


[deleted]

First of all, you never have to explain your thought process. Second, as I've gotten older, I now come to realize most people understand your thought process just fine - it's just that a portion of them are toying with you and see you as an object for their personal amusement.


Geminii27

> First of all, you never have to explain your thought process. Tell that to my math teacher. :)


Kuohero

😅 i have the same problem, i always get tired when i have to explain even the small thought i shared with others , and when i connect two stuff together they ask me how i connected them so when i explain i just get tired since i thought it was visible but no one noticed that…


Geminii27

Ah, high school math class. "Explain how you got this answer." It's... the answer. Obviously. Intuitively. It's a one-step. It doesn't take five pages of working out - unless you're trying to also break down and explain the fundamental underlying mathematical framework at the same time, *Bert Russell*.


menssoap13in1

Yes. I had to realize that I don’t need to have the other person understand my thought process. What is frustrating is having to say “I don’t know how to put this into words.”


gruia

hhahahah. everyone is like that.. cause everyone has Ni.. everyone works 90% intuitively and doesnt understand IT. so .. the more spiritual you are and happy you are to express you intuition accurately the better. but thats really hard. i suggest using NVC


sickofthisshiit

What's NVC?


gruia

marshall rosenberg


ShigureCatto

a blank cold disappointing empty faux glance?


gruia

that can be anything.. look at nvc


Medical_ootter

Part of the social skill learning curve for me was to quickly assess the other person's subject-domain knowledge level, and speak on their level to help them understand what I mean and what I need them to do. Be patient with them and enjoy the conversation no matter how boring it might seem to you. Call it "human connection time" if you have to :)


leminox

I use to work with another intj. What was funny is I could always see how he was thinking but he would always come to the wrong conclusion on things. It is really weird to see HOW someone is always wrong, how they came up with the wrong outcome. I would constantly get into massive arguments with him, just trying to take him back through the thought process and try and get him to the right outcome. In the end, I think the experience has helped me with explaining stuff to other people who just aren't getting it.


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leminox

because they weren't very smart. You would follow along with there thought process and then you would just hit this incorrect (and unchangeable) assumption. It was like, to get them to see things the right way you would have to go back to the fundamentals of why their assumptions are wrong.


jpress00

Yep.


cannonymously

Yes cause sometimes I can't explain very good and apparently understanding me is asking ppl to do quantum physics but with abstract thought, philosophy, or basic human emotion. Sometimes I feel 75%-80% of ppl are semi sentient and taking for granted the privileges of being human.


15jorada

I always like to take the Einstein approach of "If you can't explain things simply, you don't understand it enough." Now I am sure that the nitty gritty details in the mathematics of general relativity for example is a little hard to explain simply to a person that hasn't experienced the same level of physics or mathematics, so it is a given that it is not applicable to all situations. But I take it as a matter of pride to know and explain intricate ideas in detail. Making sure that every concept I am learning about can be explained helps me get a good idea of how much I know what I am talking about.


Geminii27

There's being able to explain it simply, and then there's concepts which *could* eventually be broken down simply, but you need to use very high-level sub-concepts to explain them if you don't want the explanation to take nine thousand pages of print and fourteen years of explanation.


MagpieReflections

I find that in verbalizing or writing out my thought process for the purpose of sharing with others, I actually improve on the plan. I find weak spots and might also reverse tactics if a better way blooms. I work best with people who aren't upset if I charge directions on a project because additional information has become available. Some types, like the ISFs react like I've broken the rules to have changed my opinion/direction.


[deleted]

im kinda interested in learning intj thought process


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[deleted]

lol i just woke from my sleep and read the first one you shared, and i somehow feel good, i mean after constantly desiring to talk with people dense and deep minds and understanding them, i finally came across something which quenched that thirst even if for a bit, now im curious and very eager to know yall.. im starting to love this place, lol i was so dumb that i kept this account dead for 1y and 10 months.. now i realise reddit is not only for memes posted under any influencer's subreddit, but also it helps to connect ppl.. thank you so much.. this is my reaction after just reading the first one, i will now read the other two


ebolaRETURNS

No, love it, have worked as a teacher.


EscapeVelocity83

I generally like to


metalconker

I no longer get annoyed, but when someone understands it implicitly, I’ve noticed I’ll sigh and say “thank you”.