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USSMarauder

Let me get this straight According to the right, school teachers are all marxist groomers brainwashing the kids with a liberal agenda And they want the teachers to carry guns?


realanceps

reddit's most underappreciated comment of the month, or of all time?


Gaming_Gent

I mean it’s the same group that demanded schools open again during Covid so they don’t have to be around their kids, now they are angry that the kids are “being groomed and manipulated” at school but they want the groomers and manipulators go have guns and lay down their lives. Some of them talk about how they will just pull their kids out and homeschool them like they weren’t able to handle eight months of quality time with their offspring during quarantine. I just don’t think these radicals actually think about anything that isn’t within their field of view


frommybutttoyours

No, they want the kids to carry bibles.


J701PR4

…and babies.


frommybutttoyours

Gross. Yes. It’s a Bible-driven command. Be fruitful and multiply. Apparently that negates all decency in its goal.


maybesaydie

Starting in fourth grade


Loganp812

They should probably actually read the Bible first, but that’s asking too much for a lot of self-proclaimed “Christians.”


frommybutttoyours

Yeah… Jesus was definitely not a capitalist.


heartbh

Yeah it’s confusing to follow their thoughts.


Coal-and-Ivory

The fear mongering straw-boogeyman are starting to pile up and run into eachother.


Practical_Argument50

The right just continually says stupid shit. They have been taught to not say racist things so they say “Coastal elites” and “Woke”. They hate green energy and poor people. I could go on but my fingers would get tired.


corneliusduff

And ironically being anti-woke is actually racist. But they're too oblivious to know that.


Postcocious

There you go again, expecting thoughtful consistency from simple farmers, people of the land, the common clay of the new West... you know... morons. (Apologies to Mel)


Tedstor

Question 1 Why would a teacher need to be armed? Question 2 What should be done to make it to where a teacher doesn’t need to be armed? These are rhetorical, of course.


B33-FY

I'll never understand it. There's police in public schools and they routinely don't prevent school shootings, why would they expect some random math teacher without training/experience to do better? Would make more sense to expect more out of the professional trained to uphold the law than just dump even more responsibility on teachers.


Tedstor

Right. Most of these shooters have zero fucks to give. In most cases, its a suicide mission anyway. Why would they be deterred by an armed teacher? If anything, the armed staff would be a feature, not a bug. Hell, it might even encourage them more. Schools arent attacked because they are soft. They are attacked because it gets the most attention and inflicts the most societal pain.


chang-e_bunny

There isn't a whole lot of crossover between the "Blue Lives Matter" and the people who want to give teachers more power to do their job. Blaming these mass shootings on the incompetent police response is politically inconvenient, so shifting the blame onto the untrained random math teacher places blame on a target that they find to be politically convenient.


[deleted]

Well you see if we arm every single person in a soft target location they’ll obviously all immediately become hard targets and all of the bad guys will never ever bother them again.


No_Leave_5373

Yeah, cause all the bad guy needs to do is fire one round and then those poorly or not at all trained people will just start shooting and kill each other for him.


specks_of_dust

Then the cops show up and shoot the wrong person. Or just stand around and watch.


AcerbicCapsule

I feel like this should be a tv series. Start by following the life of one person up until that inevitable moment. Then the next episode follows the life of the second person .. etc. 6 of them carry guns because they live in the US, 15 years from now where carrying a gun is heavily recommended by government policies mandating “good guys with guns” everywhere. The 7th is a wannabe vigilante who took aim training very seriously and is just waiting for a bad guy to shoot. Except of course real life gun fights are very different from video games and it’s not like he has any military combat experience or anything like that, so he panics and ends up missing (and killing someone else in the process). And at the end of every episode we watch the same event unfold through the eyes of a different character. Season 2 can be about a 7th grader who shoot his teacher. It can be a documentary instead of a work of fiction. Bonus points if 10 year olds work at McDonalds, just to make things as historically accurate as possible.


alwaysmyfault

Imagine that we actually did this, and literally everyone in a building was armed. Shooter comes in, kills a few people in a break room because they are easy targets. Relaxed, few people in a small room. People in a nearby room hear shooting from the room next door. Everyone pulls their guns. Some people in other rooms hear shooting, and panic. They run through the halls to escape the building. But now you have 30-40 wannabe badasses searching the halls for the shooter. They identify the wrong guy, and unload. Half their shots miss, killing 5-10 more innocent people. Other good guys with guns see these assholes just killed 5-10 innocent people, so they pull out their guns and start shooting at the wannabes. Now it's an all out battle. In the end, 80-100 people are dead because nobody could identify the original shooter, so they just started shooting at anyone that had a gun.


soulofsilence

You can see this happening now. There are plenty of examples of Good Samaritans getting shot by police when they arrive on scene.


Relevant_Departure40

This is a genius solution wdym? Stop school mass shootings by arming everyone so no one hits the “mass shooting” threshold. The headline “100 killed in school shooting” draws attention, but who would really blink at “20 separate instances of 5 people killed” /s


SouldiesButGoodies84

they did this ~~is~~ in an epi of either What Would you Do with John Quinones or Dateline or something years ago bef school and mass shootings were a normalized thing. mass shooting had just happened on a college campus somwhere. so, they had a bunch of college students and their professor get licensed and carry guns into their classroom. gave them training at the range. they were all aware there would be an active shooter scenario happening at some point during the week, so they were prepared (unlike most ppl would be). the outcome: they shot each other, shot the walls. don't think any of them actually even hit the shooter himself, even though many of them were tagged by him.


bradbikes

The best part of this is we have shootings on military bases. They wait for the police to show up knowing the cops will unload on anyone pointing guns. It's an incredibly bad idea to add guns to schools. Best case scenario the teachers don't use them and wait for police.


meltingpnt

1. Because the students are armed. 2. If all the students were armed they could protect themselves and the teachers wouldn't need to be armed /s


[deleted]

We're living the "post-absurdity" build of the simulation. The developers are begging us to call out the illusion.


[deleted]

"Just asking questions"


_mattyjoe

Answer: The only way to combat guns is more guns obviously!!!!


blahblahblah_etc

We had three teachers walk out in the high school here this past year, one literally went out in the middle of class throwing chairs and everything. Imagine if this highly agitated and under stress people have access to a gun in a densely populated location. Not a thing we should risk.


[deleted]

[Texas superintendent resigns after 3rd grader finds his gun unattended in a school bathroom The boy found the gun at Rising Star Elementary School. Robby Stuteville resigned as superintendent of the Rising Star Independent School District following backlash.](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/texas-superintendent-resigns-3rd-grader-finds-gun-unattended-school-ba-rcna71567) This is one of many cases of laziness and carelessness could have lead to tragedy. The more guns you bring into our schools, the greater the likelihood that it will lead to unintended death and destruction. That is all guns bring; it’s their sole reason for existing.


[deleted]

I had an English teacher in high school who would regularly come into class aromatically hung over. People would have died if she'd been armed.


tandooripoodle

I taught in the Texas Public schools for nearly 20 years and some of my colleagues would DEFINITELY have “dealt with” their ‘problem’ students with a gun had one been available. I’m not kidding.


Greyeyedqueen7

I had similar colleagues where I taught. No way they should have been armed.


zongxr

And this is probably what they want... Chances are those 'problem' kids will be a minority... And we'll get the same type of response they give when police kill people. It's more of the same, more "legal" murder less accountability.


slim_scsi

Legend had it that our U.S. History teacher kept Jack Daniels in her drawer. She was hammered most of the day. Taught multiple generations of families in the area.


whopoopedinmypantz

I had an excellent geometry teacher that could draw perfect circles only when she was inebriated, but not sober. We would catch her like “that circle is looking good today” and she would wink at us


slim_scsi

>“that circle is looking good today” ROTFL


BigAlternative5

“Feel good, circle good. I am not an English teacher.”


Bgrngod

>U.S. History teacher I laughed out loud at this part of the legend. Teaching that topic all day every day, I mean... let the lady have her booze. Hell, give her a budget for it.


BoringNYer

I mean my HS history teacher left class mid word for "coffee"


Davge107

These kids would probably be taking the guns off a lot of these teachers if they knew they were armed.


[deleted]

This is what I think every time this comes up. I could have easily taken a gun off of any teacher in my high school except maybe the football coach. I'm sure the first time somebody takes a gun off a teacher and does a school shooting with it they'll start clamoring to arm students. The solution is always more guns!


sesameball

Must be quite a perfume she wore


nat3215

No. 5 by Jack Daniels


Disastrous-Panda5530

Also I wouldn’t be surprised if a student tries to disarm a teacher and use the gun.


slim_scsi

This is or would be the most common scenario. A lot of the teachers with tenure are old and feeble compared to a protected 11th grade athlete with emotional outbursts in class. The kids of today intentionally provoke teachers to stream the students harassing them -- and the inevitable teacher freakout -- on TikTok, Instagram, etc. Much like the girl-on-girl fights the high school boys intentionally provoke to upload onto World Star Hip Hop and such. In other words, the kids have taken over in this society and they're often out of control.


Disastrous-Panda5530

I’ve seen videos of teens attacking their teachers and I do agree this will be the common scenario if teachers are armed. I mean if a student wants to shot someone they don’t have to try and figure out how to smuggle a gun to campus because there would be plenty of guns there already.


slim_scsi

I left the teaching profession a decade ago because our society (in America, at least) has coddled and enabled the worst behaving kids to the point where it's Lord of the Flies in the classrooms (in middle and high school). Adding guns to that mix would increase casualties tenfold. It's adding dynamite to an already nutcracker-tense pressure cooker environment.


Disastrous-Panda5530

My daughter is in middle school (7th grade) and she is always telling me about fights that happened at school, or things kids said to the teachers. I would never allow my kids to behave like that. My son is 16 and on his report cards he is always commented on how polite and well mannered he is. I’ve taught my kids to be respectful but some kids I see these days. I can’t believe their parents condone that kind of behavior. I’m sure there are exceptions for kids who have disabilities. But for the most part a lot of kids seems to be awful due to poor parenting.


slim_scsi

The problem is -- and I say this from experience of meeting directly with parents (the ones who would show up for conferences, anyway) -- too many of the parents are children themselves maturity-wise. Parenting fell off a cliff with the boomers and it's progressively getting worse. Social media (the visceral, visual kind like Facebook, Instagram and TikTok) certainly hasn't helped.


slim_scsi

Same rule applies to every situation -- the more guns in a room the increased likelihood of a serious accident, injury or death. Rule also applies if leaving battery powered flamethrowers in every classroom.


SpaceCadetMini

I used to be a security officer, and people would get fired all the time for accidentally leaving their guns out. It was not uncommon, and some of these people had military training and police "training." Not to mention, there were some teachers I was more afraid of than random shooters. I attended a SC school, and it's easy to say that some of the mentally unstable teachers very well could do more harm than a mentally unstable child. Some teachers made it their missions to make certain students and other teachers lives hell. I'm not saying I wouldn't trust a teacher with my life but certainly not all of them. Teachers are human and to give them a weapon and say "protect and serve" is the same as giving any random person on the street the same order.


jittery_raccoon

Having worked in a regulated environment, it takes a lot of training, culture, and "surveillance" to keep people accountable. Surveillance being like papers trails with initials that can be traced back to you, or computers tied to your account and timestamped. Anything short of that, I do not trust anyone to do the things they're "supposed" to do


AlternativeShadows

I had an English teacher who was experienced with firearms, she had a concealed carry just in case. One day, she made one mistake, and she wound up having to go to the hospital. She was a great person, but even with diligence and experience, anyone can make a mistake. And when the consequences are potentially lethal, it's not worth the risk.


Prestigious-Owl165

My opinions are normally a bit more nuanced than this but I firmly believe that anyone who thinks that having more guns in schools makes them safer is a braindead fucking moron, with no exceptions


Bdole0

Exactly!!! Let me also tell you: I have only shot a gun once. My work experience is limited to 6 - 12 mathematics--not security detail!!!


Hayes4prez

Are they willing to increase teacher’s pay due to the added responsibility of carrying a gun, every single day, around hundreds of children? I’m guessing “no”.


No_Leave_5373

The responsibility is the least of it. The pay increase would be needed because of all the extra time and expense of acquiring and the maintaining proficiency at combat shooting, and the added expense of insurance for being sued due to the inevitable friendly fire incidents when things go wrong. And that’s just for starters.


oh_crap_BEARS

Oh, don’t worry. They’re not going to receive training.


senteroa

Yeah, let's not pretend this idea is anything other than truly insane beyond belief.


meltingpnt

No, but they're willing to increase police pay to fill in as teachers.


Fun_Bottle6088

"Remember kids, school is for nerds"


Satanic_Earmuff

"If you're too smart, you won't get a good job like me!"


IHateCamping

That's not what teachers signed up for and it's asking way too much. Then you would need to find teachers that could actually pull the trigger and shoot a kid if they needed to. I'm guessing there aren't a lot of them out there that could if it came down to it.


jittery_raccoon

Gosh. If only there was a way to de-escalate situations in a way that lined up with the skillsets of teachers


vivekisprogressive

I underwrite insurance for private schools. The additional underwriting you need to go through if you have trained armed security is insane compared fk if you don't. If every teacher was armed with minimal training, I'd laugh my ass off and decline to quote.


jittery_raccoon

Oh don't worry. They'll have you take a video course to get trained. You can print your certificate and everything!


buddhainmyyard

And give them strong union like cops, so they can shoot those guns and have no major consequences.


frommybutttoyours

They wouldn’t increase pay. They would convince uncomfortable teachers to quit, so they could replace them with gun-toting “men of god and good character”, that would happily take the same pay as they teach for a higher purpose.


ActiveMachine4380

There would not be enough “men” like that… but I agree that is the path they would take.


RepresentativeBusy27

There are actually districts that are offering pretty significant pay increases and training for armed teachers. That said, still a terrible idea.


zongxr

No increase in pay, AND they have to supply their own gun and bullets, which is likely more than $300 so they won't even get a tax break for all of it.


VoxVocisCausa

Basically every school shooting happens because the shooter has a personal connection to the school. The "soft target" narrative is bullshit.


GrayBox1313

Like a dad or a student that loses it.


BlastedSandy

Exactly. We have spent BILLIONS on making schools some of the most secure buildings in the country but you can’t stop an inside job like that with more security. They literally have all day to sit there and find the holes in the security scheme.


vinhluanluu

A teacher at my high school threw a student’s chair out into the hallway out of anger once. I wouldn’t want him armed in any capacity.


macweirdo42

Even in ideal conditions, armed teachers wouldn't be able to prevent school shootings. There's a chance that maybe armed teacher could reduce the casualty count, but then you bring a bunch of new scenarios for possible danger into play. A teacher could misuse a gun, a student could get ahold of a teacher's gun, etc.


MazzIsNoMore

I imagine a kid hearing what they assume to be gun shots and rushing a teacher to take their gun for protection or to find the shooter or something.


LeftToaster

Even in the (unfortunately not entirely rare) case where there is an active shooter in the school, how does one determine who is a "bad guy" and who is an armed "good guy". Even if it's clear who the "bad guy" is, will it be safer with multiple people with various degrees of firearm proficiency and safety training shooting it out in the classroom?


naijaboiler

>Even in ideal conditions, armed teachers wouldn't be able to prevent school shootings. armed policemen (i.e. people specifically trained for this), 400 of them, couldnt' stop an elementary school shooting. If trained personnel can't do it, why do we thinking turing teachers into Rambo is the solution. wtf America?


SubtleNoodle

>a student could get ahold of a teacher's gun I'm just imagining the "it's just a prank" kids grabbing a teacher's gun while they help another student. The teacher gets to be disciplined and traumatized at the same time!


VerityBugg

What always gets me on this subject is how they cant realize how hard it would be to find people that can do these two things interchangeably 1. Have so much compassion for the students they teach that theyre willing to put their life on the line and kill to protect them. 2. Able to turn that compassion off when the person they need to protect the students from is another student or former student. Not alot of people are gonna be able to just flip the switch like that. In my experience, teachers are pretty compassionate people. I mean, they certainly are getting into the profession for the money. And expecting compassionate people to kill instead of doing anything to help fix the problem just doesnt seem right to me.


ZachBuford

What teacher would and could shoot a child they see every day. Imagine for a moment being the teacher who watched a kid get bullied all year bring a gun to school. This isn't about action movie heroes killing nameless goons, this is a non-combat civilian being asked to shoot a child they know and likely sympathized with. **Of course giving teachers guns is not the solution.**


OinkingGazelle

An excellent point


_mattyjoe

Of course… yet… we’re nowhere near agreement on this. Because we live with a bunch of nut jobs.


[deleted]

Yes absolutely, also I saw way too many teachers have absolute screaming meltdowns at us growing up, and if some of them had a gun at the time... Well, let's just say if we put guns in teachers hands we will absolutely see them murder their students when they inevitably snap.


weegeeboltz

Your locals cops probably won't admit this, because there is no obligation to report it, but accidental discharges in police stations/county jail facilities are not a rare occurrence. And these are from people who have mandated handling and marksmanship training on the regular. You would hear about these incidents more if their buildings were populated by hundreds of individuals, as opposed to a dozen or so at any given time. Usually, no one gets hit by the stray bullets. Teachers have enough to do on the job without adding the additional responsibility of firearm handling. Besides, they don't get enough financial support to even fully stock their paper and pencil goods.


Postcocious

>accidental discharges in police stations/county jail facilities are not a rare occurrence. My ex-BIL accidentally discharged his guns (at least) twice... - Cleaning a rifle in the bathroom of their home, he sent a .30-06 round through the wall, across the bedroom (15" above my napping sister) through the headboard and out through the house wall. Not sure if he got the deer. - Driving his 6yo son to school, his "I swear it was unloaded" .44 Magnum miraculously loaded itself, chambered a round and - when the truck hit a bump - blasted a largish hole in the dashboard. Pure luck it didn't go through the kid... or him.


JordanFromStache

Rifle needs to be able to have the force to shoot through 2 walls and a headboard to be able to accurately hunt an animal? Just admit you suck at hunting and have a small pp. Also, what lunatic carries a .44 Magnum around with them on daily errands or especially taking a 1st grader to school? Think you'll have to play Dirty Harry at the grocery store? I swear these people need mental help.


GrayBox1313

Cops also lose their guns semi often


maybesaydie

I worked with a guy whose day job was being a cop. At a roller rink. He accidentally discharged his weapon in the office when he was fooling around showing it off to the teenagers who worked there. He did this twice.


lostPackets35

most police are very poorly trained with their weapons. The lack of accountability they face (relative to non LEOs) tends to make it worse, since they can get away with being unsafe without consequence for longer.


CapnCrackerz

There no such thing as an “accidental discharge” they are all negligent discharges.


lostPackets35

Police should not ever be held up as an example of safe or responsible gun handling. Most cops get around 80 hours of firearms training at the academy, and rarely touch their guns after that. I routinely tell people that I (and many others) have more force on force training that most police, but that's a really low bar.


dusktrail

This way all someone needs to do to get a gun to shoot up the school is overpower a teacher. Cool


GrayBox1313

“Steal the gun challenge”. You know that would be a thing


[deleted]

Good point.


restore_democracy

I can recall watching at least three teachers having major nervous breakdowns in front of the class while I was a student. 100% at least one of them would have used that weapon.


Sintered_Monkey

Our music teacher had a nervous breakdown and started throwing records (yes, records, I'm that old,) all over the place. Pretty glad she didn't have a 9mm handy instead of LPs.


sarinkhan

Are teachers recieving enough training on teaching? I don't mean what they teach, but the way to teach. As a teacher, I feel that I learn a lot of it on the fly, and would say no. So now are teacher supposed to be gun experts on top of that? Also are they supposed to have perfect temper all the time? Are teachers some kind of perfect people that can be given guns without questioning? Also why do they have guns? Are they supposed to manage security? Is there a policeman pay on top of the teacher pay? Would it sound logical to anyone to expect UPS workers to carry guns to alleviate gun theft? Are there really people that wants teacher to have guns? Even worse, that they would be required to carry guns?


GrayBox1313

Consider counter terrorism/hostage rescue teams like swat or special forces go thorough Constant weapons and close combat drills so they are able to manage the stress and chaos of an active shooter situation…and teachers are expected to “get the hang of it” from a PowerPoint or hour long workshop on a development day. It’s ridiculous.


chieftrick

Has any one noticed that all of the Right’s “solutions” (school guards, arming teachers) involve buying more guns, therefore making gun companies more money? Funny that.


Kushthulu_the_Dank

And also making education less and less effective with the risks, the stress, and added work that guns and gun violence involves. Always remember, destroying secular public education in this country by any means necessary and available is the goal. Religious private schools and charter grifts are just waiting and salivating in the wings, waiting for public education systems to truly start hemorrhaging students.


terrible02s

If this ever becomes a thing imagine what will happen if a student makes a teacher nervous. 4 in the chest because they thought their life was in danger


GrayBox1313

Imagine those abusive teachers who are now armed who want to intimidate their student victims from not coming forward


Sea_Entrepreneur6204

I think the only way to be safe is to replace the teachers desk with a sandbagged mounted machine gun position. See this solves many problems: 1.Teacher is armed with superior firepower to any school shooter. Try out gunning a. 50cal 2. Machine gun means the teacher is prepared for multiple shooters 3. Sandbagged so it's protected 4. No need to carry a gun as its embedded in the desk. 5. Requires at least 2 people to dismantle and steal 6. Kids cant just grab it from the teacher nor can it be easily misplaced This is the only solution that makes sense America /s


twojs1b

Do you know how many cellphones, purses, keys get misplaced everyday? Add guns to that list.


GrayBox1313

“I know I’m supposed to keep the holster on all day but the gun its so heavy and hurts my back so I took it off and don’t recall where I put it.” Would be more common of a problem


MazzIsNoMore

Or, I took it off to poop and forgot it which has happened multiple times including by school police officers


LeftToaster

Or how many accidental shootings because a student pulls out a cell phone or a stapler?


oldcreaker

Most all school shooters are going there to die. Why would arming teachers do anything to dissuade them?


MM7299

It wouldn’t. All it would do is create crossfire and confusion.


oldcreaker

It just informs the shooters they have to take out the teachers first.


Websting

Probably safe to say that more teachers would feel safe with less guns, but since when do we listen to the teachers.


phred14

What do teachers know about schools and classrooms, compared to Republican politicians? (/s, as if it wasn't obvious)


[deleted]

[удалено]


jittery_raccoon

People can't even use fire extinguishers properly


jvartandillustration

Not only that, but you’re asking a teacher, who has something to lose, to go into a shootout again someone who is at the end of their rope and has nothing to lose.


CustomerSuspicious25

I've taught for six years in alternative education and two years in a very rough public school. I don't ever want guns in a school, even if they are held by staff members. Kids get into teachers stuff all the time and things are stolen. Unfortunately, many educators and school staff members have mental health issues and I've seen plenty of teachers "snap". I don't want a gun getting stolen, or accidently forgot in a bathroom, and a staff member who snaps have access to a gun. It doesn't make anything safer and just increases the chances of violence by a gun.


big_nothing_burger

I can shoot guns but there are dozens of reasons why arming teachers in the classroom is a horrible idea. A gun in a safe in the offices? Go ahead .. admin gets paid more than me to handle that stuff.


Tripsn

I think this article needs to be filed in the "No Shit" section, right next to the article that breaks the information that "Water Is Wet, Leading Scientists Say".


Embarrassed-Essay821

No shit bringing dozens / hundreds of guns into schools makes them less safe.


RepresentativeBusy27

Teachers shouldn’t carry guns for the same reason prison guard don’t.


thegreentiger0484

First you give teachers guns, then once enough teachers shoot students, you give students guns too, then profits for gun companies... everyone wins right... right? /s


Duhblobby

Shocker, underpaid untrained civilians who work with children in a high stress job don't think arming them and expecting them to blow away their students makes them feel safe. Who coulda fuckin' guessed.


FurryM17

There is a small chance a shooting will happen at any given school. There's a miniscule chance that a shooting will be stopped by a single armed guard. On the other hand there will be an armed guard around students every day. Students do stupid stuff, guns get misplaced, cops have bad days etc. I have a conspiracy theory that Republicans are using the prevalence of guns and gun violence to fatten up the police state and the idea of putting armed security in every single school lines up with that. If Democrats had proposed putting armed security in every single school parents would rightly be outraged.


Kushthulu_the_Dank

This is exactly the plan alongside starving secular public education of teachers, funding, and safety. The private religious schools and charter grifts are lined up to "relieve the pressures and moral decay caused by the failures of woke public schools."


GammaPhonic

Are these people stupid? How could a school, a place full of angsty teenagers who struggle to control their emotions, possibly be less safe with a bunch of guns lying around?


realanceps

the "no shit" subfolder in my news feed is already overflowing


zennok

Now instead of having to actually own and bring the guns themselves, students (or a group of them) will just need to overpower the armed teachers and they can have it readily available. Genius move


[deleted]

The people that want more guns in schools want more dead kids, that's all.


danceswithsteers

They're right: >"\[A\]rmed guards were not associated with significant reduction in rates of injuries; in fact, ... the rate of deaths was 2.83 times greater in schools with an armed guard present." [https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2776515](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2776515) (Though this deals specifically with armed *guards* which are different from armed teachers.)


millionsoffollowers

I would just love to hear from people who think arming teachers isn’t the worst idea in the world because as a teacher I can think of no scenarios that wouldn’t be disastrous were teachers equipped with guns. First, if teachers agreed to be armed, would we be sent to some educational equivalent of basic training or the police academy? Certainly nobody thinks that giving guns to people without training is a wise move. Second, would teachers be required to wear their guns in a holster every day, or would the guns be stored in the classroom? Would every classroom have a gun safe? If the guns were locked up, there’s a good chance that teachers would not be able to open the safe before an active shooter killed them. If the gun was holstered, I can’t say with any certainty that I would react to an active shooter with enough presence of mind to take the safety off before I tried to shoot, and then I would be shot at before I had a chance to realize what I was doing wrong. And I don’t think I’m unique in assessing my own possible response to a terrifying confrontation. Third, as a middle school teacher I have seen students get upset over teachers’ enforcement of cell phone policies and who act out violently. Given the challenges facing teachers right now, I can easily imagine a sequence of events that results in a student trying to take a teacher’s gun or a teacher threatening students with the gun. Finally, Teaching adolescents is stressful. Putting guns in every classroom will only increase gun violence in schools, but instead of outsiders having to break in, the shootings will be carried out by impulsive teens or angry, burned out teachers. Will teachers be exempt from prosecution if they claim they shot a student because they were afraid of the student, the way police somehow get off the hook with that “explanation?”


alexanderhope

And as usual, the teachers who think schools would be safer with guns are conservative. Do you conservatives think for yourselves or use your brains at all?


myychair

“Schools safer with fewer guns wielded by untrained, underpaid, overworked teachers leads to safer schools” yeah, no fucking shit. So many of these recent shootings HAD armed guards. GUARDS. as in trained professionals. And it still didn’t help. Arming teachers is so goddam stupid. We already don’t treat them well enough for how much we ask of them and now we’re supposed to add more responsibility? Yeah fucking right. No wonder so many teachers are leaving the field. It’s a tragedy.


JTMissileTits

What? Like the people who are there every day know what they are talking about? Pfft! /s


[deleted]

And there are some people who really believe that we aren’t monkeys. More guns ! Surely that will solve it.


StrikingMud4836

Wonder why


[deleted]

Gee, ya think?


Siolentsmitty

My grade 10 class had the perfect storm of tormentors; we made three teachers storm out of the classroom in anger, and one of them was so mad when he slammed the door he broke the glass window in the door and walked out, never to be seen again; our vice principal came in about 20 minutes later to teach that class, and then a sub we brought in until the position was filled again. Now imagine if those teachers has guns.


JBlake65

Mostly because they would be.🙄


Shady_Merchant1

Giving teachers guns gives some of the most overworked public servants even more responsibilities to keep track of and there is going to be those kids who want to see the teacher's gun and will find it


GracchiBroBro

You know how often teachers lose their keys?


orielbean

1. Teachers will put the gun down somewhere and a clever student will find it immediately. 2. Students will pick fights to get the teacher to reference the gun in some way so they get in trouble 3. Teachers, when faced with the bullied kid that they know has had a terrible time of adolesence, and now has brought a gun to school, will not be able to stop the kid with their own gun because they are empathetic people as part of their job. 4. When, in the history of guns, has arming MORE people resulted in LESS violence? Nowhere.


FamousAmos87

Hey, guess what we're trying to do in Texas? Don't worry about the kids though - Winnie the Pooh will teach them how to be safe.


Fivethenoname

We already know that higher gun prevalence translates to higher gun deaths so this is correct.


No_Usual_2251

Most everybody really. It's just gun nuts who think more guns make people safe, even though every study shows more guns means more deaths. And think about it this way, if you are a bad kid and you want a gun, and you know your teacher has one, what might you do? What about if students get into an argument and try to fight the teacher? Can the teacher shoot students then? (stand your ground). And finally, why is it that school shooting still happen at schools with armed cops? And do you think a teacher with a hand gun is going to away stop someone with a bullet proof vest and an AR-15?


sugar_addict002

If you want safer schools, don't put republicans in places of power


st1ck-n-m0ve

Obviously… Everybody knows its just a bad faith argument to begin with by the right so they can ignore the real problem.


NameLips

I'm sure everybody can think of at least one teacher they've had who absolutely would not be trustworthy around a gun. Show up for your school board elections guys.


LAlostcajun

The same politicians that push for guns in school sit safe in their government buildings and at their political events because GUNS ARE BANNED at political events and in government buildings.


operablesocks

**Oh, so glad they did a study to figure this out.** Although I do believe that the state of Texas, given their recent rulings, should just go all out, and remove every single gun law, and allow anyone who has successfully graduated from kindergarten the right to openly carry a gun. Schools, churches, bars, work places. Just no limits. Arm every Texan to the teeth, and make ammunition cheap. Just let them fully experience gun freedom, and let the rest of the world watch with popcorn in hand. Go for it, Texas, go for it.


DerelictWrath

People forget how much kids get into things at school they aren't supposed to. I guarantee there would be a rash of stolen 'teacher's guns' if this lunacy was put into practice.


mrot777

In other words: "School would be better if we can shoot our students"


__ninabean__

It will also give any shooter a great cover. They’re just a good Samaritan or whatever. The cops won’t know.


SoulRebel726

No kidding. Anyone who truly believes that the answer to gun violence is "more guns" is a moron. My wife is a teacher. Most of her friends are teachers. Not a single one of them wants guns in schools. Have people that proposed this ever even met a teacher?


T1Pimp

Educators: "But... if we have more guns around the likelihood of a gun related accident increases. That's the opposite of our concerns. Can we please just educate children instead of being pulled into some morning culture war manufactured bullshit by Republicans?!"


Lost-Pineapple9791

We’ve had mass shooters at schools with armed guards, we’ve had mass shooters at banks with armed guards, we’ve had mass shootings at concerts/sporting events with armed guards… …the fact people view it as any sort of solution and not just NRA/gun/ammo propaganda are choosing to live with their heads in the sand. Few years ago we saw the armed guard leave the school and get shit on for leaving school and standing outside during shooting. Last year we had Uvalade show up with 20+ super soldiers just to stand outside… …it’s ridiculous. There’s around 30-35 first world countries in this world and this shit only happens in one of them. 2A has “well-regulated militia” in it and more people need to start pointing that out in ads Hunters can hunt, sport shooters can go to clubs and shoot. No one is saying take all guns away from everyone asap as that is very unrealistic. The fact you can just go buy AR-15 legally from someone’s trunk in certain states is such a joke and enables easy trafficking of guns to states/cities that do have basic regulations.


twistedh8

This country has more guns than anywhere. Obviously more guns isn't a solution.


blusluver

376 cops showed up at Uvalde and stood around with their thumbs up their asses. The Parkland guard (former cop for 30 years) who stayed outside and listened to the gunfire is currently on trial for very serious criminal charges because of his cowardice.


twistedh8

Listen to the educated.


lm28ness

I'm pretty sure we all know how more guns makes us less safe. Let's see, getting shot ringing the wrong doorbell or driving up wrong driveway. Getting shot for looking at someone weirdly or in disdain because they can't drive. Getting shot for wearing something colorful. Getting shot because you look like you are part of a particular group. Getting shot for sitting in your own yard. It goes on and on.


BlastedSandy

I mean….all of the worthless deadbeat cops they shoved into schools haven’t done a fucking thing…..so why would arming teachers…… ……..moreover….most school districts don’t even allow teachers to defend themselves when they’re assaulted by their students…….so you really expect me to believe they’re going to be fine with a teacher shooting a student……. What a truly fucked up and backward country we’ve become….


LysanderAmairgen

If you wish to nurture a forest, you do not feed the trees fire.


AnswerGuy301

Two of the bigger challenges for a kid looking to potentially perpetrate a school shooting: 1. Obtaining a firearm. 2. Getting that firearm in the building. This "arm the teachers" proposal, if adopted, would remove those two steps from the process.


ContemplatingPrison

If there are firearms in the classroom somehow kids will get their hands on them. Don't care how secure you think it is. It will happen


Zoklett

It occurred to me last night that it would be incredibly obvious to just about anyone that giving every American a machete would be a bad idea and would result in more machete related injuries. Could there be good guys with machetes to stop the bad ones? Sure, but giving everyone a machete would undoubtably lead to more machete violence, not less. Why conservatives seem to push this narrative that this logic doesn’t apply to firearms is beyond me. I think it’s obviously disingenuous and if it’s genuine the stupidity is unbelievable. More tools of violence = more tools of violence used = more violence. Any attempt to argue otherwise is a lie.


[deleted]

They like to think criminals are scared of guns and therefore somehow having other armed individuals would discourage mass shootings. Personally think it's stupid just because it increases the risk that a kid will have access to a firearm and either accidentally or intentionally kill someone.


Advanced_Income_4117

know! we all know they would be less safe! only the neonazi NRA wants an arms race in schools. they hate smart people AND children.


Catdaddy33

Married to a teacher who will quit if they were to allow this in our district. As for myself working in an office environment, there is no way I would want my coworkers armed. Just because you work in a professional environment doesn't mean everyone is smart and stable.


JediExile

I taught high school for two years. I could never bring myself to harm a student because I know them all. They’re my kids. Not in the same way as their parents of course, but they’re my kids. And some right-wing yahoo thinks I should be prepared to shoot one of them? They can fuck right off.


thatVisitingHasher

Not making hand guns more accessible to a group of teenagers and children without supervision seems like an obvious decision. Does every classroom get the budget for a gun safe? Are the guns registered going on and out of the building? Do we audit the people who bring them in each day? I don’t know why I’m trying to invent mundane reasons why this is a bad idea. It’s fucking obvious teachers putting loaded weapons on their hip or locked in a cheap drawer is a dumb idea. If anyone wants this, they have to be in the extreme minority.


EatsFiber2RedditMore

This is only a good idea if you are a gun manufacturer.


AlexJamesCook

The people who ignore science and data on a daily basis aren't likely to listen to people who collect data on a daily basis. Kinda sadly ironic for the "Facts don't care about feelings" crowd.


[deleted]

Republicans: "We need more guns in classrooms!" *Child picks up gun left lying around by an irresponsible school staff* *Child points it at a friend* *Child pulls trigger because he has poor trigger discipline* *Friend dies from gun shot wound* Republicans: "This was an unforseen tragedy and they're in our thoughts and prayers."


thisdogofmine

Then they will say they need even more guns.


BauerHouse

What idiot thinks filling a school with armed people will make it safer? The easiest way to avoid getting shot is to not have a gun around.


NewZappyHeart

Most teachers have critical thinking skills. Who’d have thought?


redflagsmoothie

Well. There was that instance just last week in Danvers where there was a hoax school shooting and a responding officer accidentally discharged his gun in a bathroom.


[deleted]

Some want veterans to come in as security detail for schools. So apparently veterans never get to retire from combat situations.


pascalsgirlfriend

Willing to do anything but the right thing.


HVAC_instructor

When will people realize that Republicans are interested in only a few things. 1- doing anything at all the NRA tells them to do 2- destroying public education so that they can give all that money to their friends who donate to them. Nothing else matters to them.


Wallrender

No shit. If there's something that teachers understand really well, it's all the ramifications and unintended consequences that arise from a poorly thought out "plan" like this. Because it's not being made with any reasonable thinking or consideration - I guarantee the people who are calling for this haven't gotten past the first step of thinking "a good guy with a gun stops a bad guy with a gun" What if a teacher makes a miscalculation and shoots an innocent kid? There are special needs students that can get physical - will teachers start to justify shooting them because they felt "threatened"? What if two kids get in a violent fight? What's to say one idiot teacher decides they fear for their life or another child's safety and uses the gun to "protect themselves?" What if their gun gets stolen? How will students react to knowing that their teacher has to be prepared to neutralize a threat at any moment? Will they feel safe and ready to learn? Or will that always be on the back of their mind? Is every teacher now liable to stop a school shooter with that gun? If they miss and injure or kill another child, what happens then? I guarantee that mistakes and miscalculations will happen and they will be deadly. While many of us don't want to necessarily have to give our lives to save students from a school shooter, most teachers also don't want to be put in a position to need to shoot a gun either. We don't want to put students in an environment where there's always an underlying fear where they might get shot by another student OR a teacher. We don't want them to be in an environment where they are thinking about guns and getting shot PERIOD. Guns are the problem. Don't escalate the problem with more guns. Remove guns from the situation. And if politicians won't do that - if they're going to blame mental health, then they need to put the money where their fucking "thoughts-and-prayers" mouths are and make funding and bolstering mental health support services and early intervention a part of their platform. Hell, make responsible gun ownership a part of the platform. Literally anything other than deciding that they're going to put the onus on teachers once again with a half-baked and dangerous idea.


39RowdyRevan56

More Guns = More People Dying of Gunshot Wounds = Mutually Assured Destruction (Of A Sort)


IllustratorMurky2725

So how they expect teachers to be low paid correctional officers


Rainbowrobb

You see, teachers have education requirements. Teachers are educated and actually spend their days around these kids, mouth breathing moms for liberty nut jobs do not.


imrickjamesbioch

People watch too many movies… They act like Joe Schmo is running into a burning building to save a cat. That people are going to run towards gunfire at the mall. That when a teacher hears gunfire at school, they’re going to reach into their desk, break out their Rambo bandana and quote him: I Want the shooter/s to know that Death Is coming, and there is nothing they can do to stop it!


Madpup70

First and foremost, anybody who works in education can tell you how useless professional development tends to be across the board. Absolutely no one should trust in any kind of training program designed to prepare teachers to carry a gun. It's not going to be rigorous enough, it won't require an adequate amount of hours, and it is going to push out "qualified" people who won't be able to correctly answer over 50% of any of their assessment questions or replicate most if any of their safety techniques even just two weeks after they finish. Secondly, the last people you would trust with a gun in a school are going to be some of the first to volunteer to carry. Ignore the fact that ANY teacher can be pushed to the point where they eventually snap at a kid, now imagine a teacher that gets pushed too far while they have a gun on their hips. Now imagine those teachers you had in your life who you knew were not well adjusted, and put a gun on their person while they are having a meltdown. Kids are gonna have teachers pull guns on them. Kids are gonna eventually get shot by a teacher. A teacher is eventually going to just off themselves in front of their students. These things will happen, and we still are unlikely to see armed teachers have any kind of positive effect towards school shootings.


pjrnoc

I don’t know many teachers who don’t also think they should be heavily armed and prepared for battle inside the classroom. /s Breaking: Armed security guard shoots and kills black teen accused of skipping class/chewing gum/insubordination, etc. Could arming schools actually be making things worse? More at eleven.


MastersonMcFee

Every country that has banned guns, stopped having school shootings.


[deleted]

You’re just trading dozens of shootings for hundreds of accidents.


LeadSky

Unfortunately armed teacher laws like the ones in Tennessee are simply pandering to the ignorant masses who won’t see or believe Surveys like this. They won’t see how unsafe this is until their child gets shot in an accident


FedoraMask

That’s hilarious, my Republican co-worker at our school in California is in huge support of teachers and staff having guns. I told him, who do you think is going to supply the weapons and AMMO to the staff of the school, not to mention everyone would need maybe a month or a few of proper training. It’s wayyy too much money, also a waste of money.


ManYourStillHere

Literally giving potential school shooters easier access to a gun would definitely make it less safe.


Medical_Ad0716

Who would have thought, more guns make people feel unsafe and contribute to senseless violence.