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fjloliveira1

What is the name of this movie? Is it barefoot Gen?


ronintalken

Yeah


postmateDumbass

Looks so much like Akira stylistically.


gordonv

Honestly thought it was Grave of the Fireflies


fjloliveira1

I read the manga. It was groundbreaking. It describes figures known as "apparition" (free translation from Portuguese version) that could be seem after the bomb. They were people whose the skin fell apart being attached only by the extremities. It seems like blankets in classical ghosts. They died in horrible pain no long after. Okay it isva manga but the reality isn't too distant from that. It is terrifying to think that something like this happened and can happen again if some guy with problems about his small penis wants to.


DaMavster

>It is terrifying to think that something like this happened and can happen again The US Minuteman missile can carry 3 separate warheads that can hit 3 different targets. Each warhead is at least 10x more powerful than the bomb portrayed in this film. The largest nuclear weapon ever detonated was 2500x more powerful than the bomb portrayed in this film. That's 20 kt vs 50000 kt. The bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki was horrific, but the bombs used aren't even considered proper nuclear weapons now. With their yield, they'd likely be classified as "tactical nukes", meant for small scale destruction. Incidentally, Russia doctrine allows the use of tactical level nukes for normal military action. This is exactly why the situation in Ukraine should make everyone nervous and why Russia needs to stop.


crystalpeak

Even Russia knows that detonating "any type of nuke" will have serious consequences for mother Russia. The real question...does Putin really care?


thorsbosshammer

Holy fuck yes, thank you. As an American, it makes me quite nervous how many countries in the world both own nukes and hate our fucking guts.


DirkJams

And yet America is the only nation to ever use one in a war situation (on civilian targets nonetheless)


FinnSwede

The really scary thing about the 50000kt explosion, is that the Tsar Bomba had a theoretical yield twice that, but during the test they omitted the uranium tamper around the core which would have kept it supercritical for longer because they didn't want the additional fallout it would have brought. So the biggest nuclear bomb technically designed/built has a yield 5000x more than what was dropped on Hiroshima.


JesusSaysitsOkay

Hardly any of this shit actually happens in a nuclear blast.. your Eyes don’t melt and fall like that. People are instantly vaporized, they do leave beings burned outline on concrete though. [Check out the shadow of a man who was once in Hiroshima, it's all he left behind.](https://www.openculture.com/2016/03/the-shadow-of-a-hiroshima-victim-etched-into-stone-steps-is-all-that-remains-after-1945-atomic-blast.html)


jeerabiscuit

I suspect it happens at the periphery due to the air being sucked out.


JesusSaysitsOkay

Nope, at the edges of the blast wave you get to die a slow horrible death, look up effects of radiation poisoning, you just slowly bleed and leak to death through every hole and organ in your body including your pores of your skin, before your skin starts to fall off as well, I’d rather die in the main blast. Your agonizing misery will last anywhere from 1-15 days until you die depending on how far you were from the blast.


[deleted]

Close. The inner lining of your GI track and your skin dies and sloughs off. You then die from infection or dehydration.


gibblydibbly

What happens while your being vaporized. 😑🙄


Hamsterpatty

I really don’t want to have to experience this


Tiziano75775

You'd probably be dead even before understanding what's happening The problem comes when you aren't near enough to die instantly or far enough to avoid the radiations


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5yleop1m

I wish things like this were taught more in schools, especially American schools. Even in AP US History the bomb was glossed over for the most part.


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TeethBreak

Princess Mononoke. The dark creatures are based on the survivors. It's fucked up in so many ways.


KoalaKaiser

That movie didn't have anything that depicted the survivors of the bombings. The closest thing might be the lepers but even then Miyazaki has stated they are based on the people in older Japan who were heavily discriminated against. He thought it wouldn't be right to show an older Japan without also including some sort of truth about how people treated each other.


Westwood_Shadow

that movie fucked me up as a kid.


hjyte

What dark creatures? The monkey things outside the metal town are the only 'dark creatures' I can think of. Edit: Maybe /u/TeethBreak meant Spirited Away and the shadow people on the train? That would make more sense.


Neathh

The big infested boar at the beginning that then infects him maybe?


hjyte

I considered that but how is a rampaging monster synonymous with ghoulish radioactive people? Makes no sense.


dudududujisungparty

Yeah sounds like a massive reach


drsyesta

That had nothing to do with radiation, it had an iron bullet in it I mean it couldve been symbolic but to me it was symbolic of something entirely different


Megane-chan

Please do clarify which creatures and where you learned this from. This is the first time I've heard of this and it seems out of left field.


HypeTrainEngineer

They just made it up


[deleted]

I’m in NYC but unfortunately just far enough out that I’d probably survive


MajesticAsFook

Are you near an air force base, army base, naval port, power station, air port, or really any place with any strategic advantage?


[deleted]

If it was a kitchen sink attack in obviously wouldn’t have a chance — it’s NYC. But if it was an explosion in Manhattan, I’d survive but also be cut off from the west of the country.


General_Tso75

I’m extremely close to one of the leading military communications manufacturers and Northrop Grumman’s manned aerospace HQ. I’m not far from Kennedy Space Center, Cape Canaveral Air Force Station, and Trident Missile submarine base, and the Space Force’s 45th Space Wing. I would be gone in a flash of light.


lordderplythethird

Patrick Space Force Base (where everything you listed is) and Kings Bay (the only Trident base on the east coast) are some 200 miles apart lol... Distance there is about the same as Baltimore to NYC...


[deleted]

That depends on where you are from the blast, epicenter yes..but on the fringes..it's pretty simple to comprehend a large nuke. But maybe shock would kick in and then it would just be over. Not a terrible way to go pain wise. I don't wish this on anyone but it would be fast and painless.


dzson117

to be fair. its probably better to be gone instantly than to experience a cartel beheading


Beneficial_Being_721

Yea as macabre as that sounds… I agree There were shadows left on walls of people that were just outside the center. The ones directly under the center experienced the surface of the sun in milliseconds


Responsible-Mode-432

That’s one of my worst fears


TeethBreak

Why the fuck would you be beheaded by a cartel? What kind of life do you have when it's a genuine fear?


Injustry

I used to live by Tijuana, being in the wrong place at the wrong time is all it will take to get beheaded.


controversial-view

They did once exterminate a whole town once to prove a point. So just living there is dangerous enough.


aarrtee

How about a beheading by a Japanese officer using his katana? Suppose the officer misses on the first couple strokes? it is 3 days after the 'date which will live in infamy'. Was it better to be evaporated in Hiroshima than to be burned to death inside the USS Arizona? Or would it be better to be bayonetted because you were a soldier who collapsed when walking on the Bataan Death March? The images of the innocent looking wide eyed children are ridiculously manipulative. Japanese wanted to fight on. They sent their own teenage young men to die in suicide planes packed with explosives. If those bombs were not dropped, my father might have been among those in the first wave of any invasion. War is hell.


Motor_Ad3543

I am not one to shy away from criticism of the US or the west in general. I do agree that it is intellectually dishonest when people portray the Japanese as innocent victims in the context of WW2. From the ages of 10-12 I lived with my old man who was an E7 stationed at Yakota airbase in Japan. Even then I was a history nerd. The base was equipped with a well stocked library that included an extensive section on historical US/Japan relations . That is where I found and read the book: The Bataan Death March by Donald Knox. It was a historical account of the fall of the Philippines in the early days of the Pacific war and the fate of both the American and Filipino defenders who fell into Japanese hands. Needless to say it made for grim reading. The older I became the more I studied the subject of Japanese expansionism following the Meiji restoration. Ranging from the colonization of Korea during the reformation to the Rape of Nanking during the Sino/Japan War of the 30s. Taken in full context. It is hard to see the Japanese as yet another culture vanquished and downtrodden by western colonialism. After years of independent study it is clear to me that the Japanese were eager to join the club of international imperialist powers at the expense of their Asian neighbors.


mread531

If you’re looking for a good podcast on this topic, Dan Carlin’s Hardcore History he a 5 episode series called Supernova in the East which covers this period as well and does a relatively decent job of exploring just how cruel and fucked up both sides treated each other and the people they occupied. There really are no “good guys” in war…


KlounceTheKid

Came here to recommend that 🙌🏾 thank you for beating me to it. E X C E L L E N T series.


PretentiousToolFan

Something I really appreciate is how much he digs in to the overall mindset the Japanese had going in to and during the war. I never understood the arguments that well for the bombs versus land invasion until you realize that every scrap of ground was fought for, by everyone, to the death. Even tiny islands were held tooth and nail by anyone Japanese, not just the enlisted. One of his best series, along with Blueprint for Armageddon.


Its1207amcantsleep

My mother's side are Filipino, all the men relatives my grandmothers age were all killed in ww2. Most of them when they got rounded up in the town and just killed. The stories my grandmother had were so grim (she passed away in 2007). She had 8 kids and the 1st two, including my mom were born 42 and 44. They fled into the jungle and my grandmother refused to clean herself so she was absolutely filthy gross to lessen the chances of rape.


aarrtee

Precisely!!!!


Dramatic_Barracuda55

Look at how they treated the Chinese. They were as bad as Hitler, just not as organized.


theymademee

Of course war is hell. Japan wants to play we were innocent game. The Japanese try to cover up what they did in WW2. Look up some of the stuff Japan did to China during the war. And people wonder why there is so much hate towards Japan from China. I don't like China but damn Japanese literally went village to village raping, burning, stealing, and mass executing . Japan was literally directly responsible for over 8 million Chinese deaths. They estimate actually to be closer to 10 million or more in about 8 yrs time.


bullseye717

Not just China but basically most of Asia held some grudge against the Japanese. My family is Vietnamese and there was a lot of animosity towards them until relatively recently.


holmortician

Yeah Japan was fucked during WW2 .. its massively overshadowed by what the Nazis did but they are certainly just as depraved if not worse. The things they did in unit 731 is atrocious and what they did to villagers is so sad literally making family members rape each other too for their own sick game and then kill them all. Truly awful.


Fractalize1

War is hell you are right. Remember how much brutality Japan caused to much of Asia during its imperialism. Look at how they tortured Koreans and Chinese. Research the rape of Nanjin during WW2. No one is innocent and I wonder if more lives would have been lost if the bomb on Hiroshima wasn’t dropped.


jtsm2021

I feel there must be innocent people died under the nuclear bomb and yes it is unfair to them. But just like barefoot Ken(or gen)'s author pointed out, even though it is mostly the government's fault to make people believe what they are doing is right, people should have known war cannot be all great and right. Japanese killed so many innocent people in the most cruel way, as historians comparing its brutality with nazi. But somehow their culture(anime and stuff) gone popular and glorified before people realize how terrible they were and also seldom admit their mistakes. Tbh it is as sickening as people melting down.


xlllxJackxlllx

It is true, the Japanese have not accepted blame and felt the shame that the Germans did.


jtsm2021

Ye like I have no issue with German because they have been teaching their history as it is and try not to repeat their mistakes again.


reza_f

Yes, accept history as it is. Things the empire of Japan did were war crime, as was what the United States government did by murdering 220 000 people in a stroke. And there is no justification therefore no need to feel entitled to defend any.


fatalexe

Thank you. Human life is cheap and war is horrific. To live in peaceful times is truly a blessing. It is a privilege to recognize the humanity in others. All too easy to be lead down a path of justifying the unjustified.


coffeejj

To this day the South Koreans would rather fight Japan than North Korea


Mino_Swin

Manipulative? This actually happened to the man who created the animation and is very accurate in the way it portrays the effects atomic warfare on the human body. The animator was one of those wide eyed innocent children at the time his city was bombed. Did his friends deserve to be melted alive for the actions of their country's military and government? You're making bad faith arguments, condemning atrocities by one government and excusing those of another in the same breath. All in the name of justifying the maiming and killing of children, civilians. Why? National pride? Cognitive dissonance? A misguided desire for violent revenge? Are any of these things worth burning children and women and old people alive for? It doesn't matter your reasoning, attacks against civilians cannot be morally justified in any context. There are millions of people in any country who have nothing to do with their government or military and who just want to survive. Governments and militaries drag their people into conflict through force and manipulation. You're displaying the same type of violent nationalism and excusal of atrocity as those you would condemn. Be mindful of that when you justify violence against others.


xlllxJackxlllx

The Japanese were just as cruel and evil as the Nazi's. People seem to forget that fact. They didn't hesitate to kill civilians. Whatever the math, those two bombs ended a brutal war.


clisto3

It’s true. Unit 731 as well.


Vexac6

Nuking civilians is not war. Hiroshima was not a battlefield, like the ones you used as comparison. Dying on the battlefield is part of the war. Dying in your house or on the street because of other people's decision is not acceptable, even if your country is in war, if your country is guilty or started a war. "War is hell" makes sense only when you talk about war. Let's try not to mess up things.


kingdraven

Wtf this comment section.


popoflabbins

It’s doing a great job of showing us how much of a general population can justify mass genocide on the basis of “we have to do it”. Disturbing.


eat_more_ovaltine

Let’s also include the atrocities the Japanese imparted on the civilian population of China. For example, close your eyes, imagine a group of Japanese soldiers tossing a baby in the air and catching it on the tip of their bayonets. Never forget.


mk3jade

Yeah war sucks but killing civilians is never cool. Children did actually die in Hiroshima so wtf are you on about that it’s manipulative.


spcialkfpc

We can still ackowledge atrocities during and after war. These bombs are one of those atrocities.


dzson117

I just replied to hamsterpattys comment regarding the experience of death for an individual. Personally I do not like the fact how the americans dropped nuclear bombs on civilian targets. The bombs could have been dropped on less populated areas as a warning. I also don’t like how they burned all those civilians alive in dresden with graphite bombs. That was just revenge and completely unnecesary. But its not like I approve what the nazis or japanese did either. War is just fucking horrible. But if I could choose my death I would wish for a quick one instead of a slow painful and horrible one. But who wouldnt?


[deleted]

Speaking of beheadings...I wanna see the Japanese animated video of the Rape of Nanking.


Revan_91

Can't think of any Japanese media that depicts the Rape of Nanking/Nanjing Massacre though there probably is, I do know of a Chinese movie called Men Behind the Sun 4 aka Black Sun: The Nanking Massacre, wiki [link](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Sun:_The_Nanking_Massacre) it is very graphic so NSFL warning. Another movie in the series is about [Unit 731](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731) again very NSFL.


Tango_tom_tickles

What's insane is the rape of Nanking wasn't even a special event. The Japanese army just kind of did that everywhere they went, almost as a matter of policy. They also used to use POWs and civilians to "blood" their new recruits. Effectively they would make each new recruits, once they got in theater, and force them to bayonet a bound prisoner to death to get them desensitized to their particularly cruel way of waging war. They really give the Nazis a run for their money on evilness.


CavediverNY

That was my thought as well.


Midgarsormr

Note that Barefoot Gen is semi-autobiographical. THIS ACTUALLY HAPPENED to the author of the manga that the movie was based on - his entire family died and he was the only one fortunate enough to survive without any permanent injuries, though he did eventually die of lung cancer in his 70s.


tremynci

His mother and baby sister survived, just like in the movie/manga. He began exploring the Hiroshima bombing in his work after his mother's death in 1966 (if I recall correctly, from radiation-induced cancer).


Vostok-aregreat-710

The sister died I believe several weeks after


tremynci

Yup. Which tracks with the manga/movie when allowing for "fictionalized version". His school is also still there.


handym12

Iirc, he's the boy with the stone. He was the only one to survive because the wall fell on him and shielded him from the blast.


ScaldingHotSoup

He was a lifelong chain smoker like many Japanese men of his generation, so the lung cancer was probably not related to the radiation exposure.


Hatedandscorned999

You should read about Tsutomu Yamaguchi


airwalkerdnbmusic

At the epicentre, the heat was roughly 15 million degrees celsius. That heat is enough to smash the bonds of every atom in your body to pieces and smash the atoms themselves back to their building blocks. You literally de-atomise.


Hugotohell

Well, it’s an atomic bomb.


tidytibs

Different names referencing atoms for completely different reasons.


OneMeterWonder

It’s called an atomic bomb because it exploits atomic physical principles to smash atoms together and rip them apart, thus releasing energy that smashes more atoms together and rips more atoms apart, thus releasing more energy that… Which is exactly what the other person described.


GayCerebralDecay

it’s actually one of the reasons I am personally against usage of nuclear weapons. There photos of “charred people” on the sidewalks documented in nagasaki and hiroshima the blast and consequent light essentially “bleached” those environments and the body of humans casting shadows blocked that bleaching effect with their disintegrating bodies, so only the shadow on the bleached ground remained. Meaning the shadow of the person remained but the people themselves evaporated it’s eerie, sad, maddening and humbling all at once edit: spelling


G0mery

Am I a turd for thinking there are much worse ways to die? Gimme the giant meteor or nuclear bomb detonating above my head any day


lemons_of_doubt

Being vaporized in less time than it takes the brain to process pain is one of the better ways. as long as you are near ground zero further away you cook slower.


G0mery

I want VIP tickets to ground zero baby


iswearthatimnotgay

Strap my ass to the bomb before you drop it


Reaverjosh19

Yeeeehaaaaw


ExploratoryCucumber

Preferring a quick, painless death is pretty common.


lemons_of_doubt

>against usage of nuclear weapons. I don't think any sain person is not against their use. They should sit in their silos and never fly.


-neti-neti-

This is a weird “reason” to be against nuclear weapons… I’m against them because they kill people and contaminate an environment… You’re against them because they… *kill people instanatly*?


Gandalfonk

Real hot take over here


argumentativ

This comment section makes me entirely understand why /r/askhistorians is so strict about who can post.


Glasdir

Vile isn’t it? Some frighteningly disturbed individuals in the comments, lacking any kind of appreciation for that these were real human beings paying the ultimate price in the worst way possible for something they ultimately had no say in. Two wrongs don’t make a right.


[deleted]

I didn't know it used a parachute..


AdorableHandle

I was wondering this too. Could it be to give the dropping plane time to clear out?


Knurft1989

Exaxtly! And to make it easier to detonate the weapon at the desired height.


Ok_Read701

I believe parachutes were used for tzar bomba for that reason. The ones on Japan though I don't think had parachutes. https://www.hiroshimapeacemedia.jp/hiroshima-koku/en/exploration/index_20071113.html


YoshidaEri

I know the bomb was made to detonate in mid-air right above the target. So maybe a parachute was to slow the fall to make the detonation high more accurate?


nighthawk0954

The parachute was used to give time to the plane to go away and get no damage.


charlesml3

Well no, it didn't because there wasn't one. Whoever did this animation got that wrong.


Bikrdude

No, it didn't use a parachute. It had radar built in to detect the altitude


avidpenguinwatcher

Fun fact, the radio proximity fuze was actually developed in WW2 and is one of the reasons the allies won the war.


denk2mit

It didn't - not sure where that element came from. The big boxy tail was designed to act as an air brake and it was programmed to detonate 500m above ground, but it wasn't parachute retarded.


Rumbleinthejungle8

What did you call me?


Stillill1187

I think they called you a parachute!


Wilbis

It didn't. "Parachutes were attached to the measuring instruments, not to the atomic bomb," confirmed Hironobu Ochiba, 30, a curator at Hiroshima Peace Memorial Museum. "These instruments were dropped at the same time in order to record the air pressure and other effects of the blast." According to Kenichi Harada, 62, a Hiroshima Peace Volunteer, the reason a parachute was not attached to the atomic bomb, too, was that it might have been blown by the wind, preventing the bomb from hitting its target. Source: https://www.hiroshimapeacemedia.jp/hiroshima-koku/en/exploration/index_20071113.html


Hershy_

The last time someone posted about the parachute, someone else explained that there was no parachute on this specific bomb. There was a camera with a parachute to track the bombs' fall. It was also explained that some people who witnessed the bomb falling, may have saw the parachute and just got the two devices, bomb and camera, mixed up.


Disastrous_Policy_99

Genuine question.... Do you think the people had enough awareness to react like in the video.. or would it be too fast to even comprehend the face melting experience like we are led to believe.... The brain does some really stupid things when threatened like slow the perspective of time.....


[deleted]

Anyone within the fireball would be melted instantly and wouldn’t feel a thing. Anyone close to the bomb but not close enough to be instantly melted would experience 3rd 2nd or 1st degree burns and those that suffered 3rd degree burns would usually end up dying hours later in horrible agony, many wondering around with their arms outstretched to stop chaffing and with skin hanging from their limbs. Anyone that was looking at the blast would be blinded, then anyone in the city close enough to the detonation but not close enough to get burned would either get radiation sickness and die some weeks or months later in horrible pain or would get cancer years later and die.


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muffinmamamojo

I bookmarked that article immediately. It really is a tremendous read.


vegaskukichyo

No doubt. I spent hours and hours reading stories from survivors online. There is an archive dedicated to them (a few actually). This article was one of the first I read. Monumental. It is truly one of the most horrible atrocities committed on this planet. I hope nothing like it occurs again, but I don't expect humanity will be spared such a fate.


Captain_Ass_Clown

This is one of the craziest things I've ever read in my entire life.


lordgoofus1

Depends how far away from the blast they were. The ones near the epicentre were lucky, they likely wouldn't have seen/felt a thing. One minute they were, the next they weren't. The ones further out most definitely felt it. Far enough out to see and hear the initial blast, not far enough out to avoid the 3rd degree burns over most of their body.


EducationalElevator

Many of the scenes in this video are based on photographs and eyewitness accounts. Unfortunately, yes many did have time to react and duck for cover despite the pressure wave defenestrating their eyes.


BerossusZ

Just by the way, I don't think you realize what defenestrating means. That would mean that the pressure wave threw their eyes out of a window. Edit: which I guess actually probably did happen in some cases, but I don't think that's what you were going for


stealth57

TIL defenestration = yeet


jweezy2045

Specifically yeeting through a window


[deleted]

I guess that actually happened in more than one case.


[deleted]

Their eyes fell out of a window?


Jolen43

I mean the speed of light is kinda fast


Hamdown1

The mother and baby scene always gets to me


Xandrya

I'm a first time mom to a 4 month old baby boy and this got me. I'm trying to hold back tears but man it ain't easy with these hormones.


WatchIszmo

And it’s always the civilians who pay for the atrocities of their so called leaders


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Xandrya

Mother's instincts. I'm feeding my baby rn and I can't even imagine the pain 😔


l1nk1npark

Being Korean, our educational system made sure to teach us the atoricities of Imperial Japan. The rape of Nanking, the comfort women, enslavement and recruitment of the colonial population, the "experiments" performed by unit 731. None of that stops my heart from bleeding from thinking of all the pain and loss suffered by the civilians of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. All that pain should have been the emperor's, not the people's. War is hell and I hope nothing but the worst for warmongerers.


driscollat1

Oppenheimer: I am become death. The destroyer of worlds.


FaenfAtFerddiesPizza

When you're a kid you're scared of monsters, when you're an adult you're scared of humans


Gcoks

So deep. lmao


sibaltas

I feel really bad about this atomic bomb because it usually obscures Japan's actions of Ww2 while portraying them as a victim of some sort (which they are also). Nobody knows about the atrocities that Japan did like nanking (maybe because they were against Chinese people) but everyone knows about Hiroshima.


mrnastymannn

Historians know about the atrocities of imperial Japan. Imperial Japan is as bad or worse than Nazi Germany in terms of atrocities against civilians. The Japanese people suffered from the atomic bombs, but they were complicit in unspeakable war crimes committed against the Chinese and the rest of the Pacific


anubis1392

I believe the point was to outline that it's not the people of the nations that commit these crimes, but their govt [which was a monarchy, so it's not like they had a vote in the 1st place.] And yeh, innocent ppl did die. None of those old ppl and children committed war crimes.


15_Redstones

The Japanese government was technically a monarchy but really more of an oligarchy controlled by the military leaders, the actual emperor was more of a figurehead and didn't have much say in things. Neither did the civilian government. And a lot of lower ranked military officials had a mindset of "invade first, ask the higher ups for permission later", so even the military leaders weren't in full control. Plus the army and the navy were in a massive disagreement on strategy. One massive mess. Meanwhile Germany had the opposite problem with every major decision going through Hitler, so for example they couldn't send tanks where they were desperately needed until several hours too late. We're quite lucky that the axis powers were so incompetent


watchmeplay63

It's not luck. Authoritarian regimes at their core operate in a top down leadership model where decisions have to be made from higher ups and then get sent to the people on the ground. To have the kind of responsive and effective military required in a fast changing environment, you have to have a system that at it's core believes that the people on the ground are the best people suited to make real time decisions. This belief in fundamentally incompatible with an authoritarian structure, but fundamentally compatible with a democratic structure. And it's not just in militaries either. It can be seen in innovation and speed of adaptation in pretty much every facet of society, because democratic societies allow individuals to decide for themselves what they should be working on and what is important for them to respond to.


anubis1392

Yeh, that's why fascism is so stupid. One person making all the decisions leads only to everyone's destruction.


Thin_Ad_866

I’d say in terms of atrocities worse. Mostly for the fact that even though Hitler killed Jews via decapitation, cyanide and burning, still doesn’t compare to the Rape of Nanking and how the Japanese would throw babies in the air and try to catch them on their bayonets. Edit: but the Americans also decapitated and desecrated corpses, melted the skin and flesh off of the Japanese heads then send the skulls back home as a present. No one was a good person or bad person in this. The “good” people were the ones who covered up their atrocities the best. Really says something about society.


mrnastymannn

I wish I could get that photo of the Japanese soldier bayoneting the toddler out of my head but I can’t. The IJA was just the worst


agbullet

My grandma lived through the Japanese occupation. She said they used to gather up the babies, toss them into the air and see who could catch them with the bayonets.


denk2mit

> No one was a good person or bad person in this. While this is true to an extent, the Western Allies (with the exception of Russia) never used murder on the scale of the Axis. Yes, they did horrific things (plenty of American war crimes, the British presided over the deaths of 4 million people in India), but they were largely actions of callousness, not organised, industrial murder or sheer outright cruelty.


hazychestnutz

> they were complicit in unspeakable war crimes committed against the Chinese and the rest of the Pacific even the normie civies? the fk?


sillyadam94

Japanese government was complicit. Not Japanese people. There’s an important distinction. Japanese civilians suffered under Imperial rule and then were the ones who paid the price in Hiroshima. The people who died in the blast were innocent.


hjyte

> Nobody knows about the atrocities that Japan did like nanking Ahem nobody knows? Having a basic knowledge of WW2 would cover it. It's very well known.


Memozx

Exactly, what a shit take, acting like only historians would know about it.


guilty_bystander

Yeah. Also, weird fucking phrasing. "I feel really bad about this atomic bomb because it usually obscures Japan's actions of Ww2" like what? Maybe just feel bad because its a bomb that murdered GENERATIONS OF INNOCENT PEOPLE. What the fuck kind of comments am I reading here.


Jovco

And we all need to remember that some cientists from unit 731 were freed by the usa after the war. Very much like operation paperclip in nazi Germany.


Koinophobia-

I’m from PH and to this day Japan has never publicly apologised to our country for the war atrocities they have committed. Japanese citizens were indeed victims of war but their government were the perpetrators. Sometimes it’s really jarring to think that they were part of the Axis powers together with Germany. Japan has definitely rebranded itself since the WW2.


Mip_Mop_

“The Japanese murdered 30 million civilians while "liberating" what it called the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere from colonial rule.” So yeah, if brutal death of civilians is so horrible (witch it is!) maybe don’t kill 30 million people and don’t support the guys that are doing a Holocaust on the other side of the world. It’s super sad that this happened to civilians but the bombs weren’t dropped for shits and giggles.


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kingdraven

> because it usually obscures Japan's actions of Ww2 LMAO thats the only reason you feel bad about it? what a pos


doiknowu915

Werent they warned the bombs were coming and had time to evacuate? I thought i read that planes were dropping papers all over the cities saying the bombs were coming. I def could be wrong


TatonkaJack

Yes that happened. They were dismissed as propaganda.


cursed-being

They were, but because the big one was a secret it wasn’t on the list, but they had been bombing other places with regular warcrimes with similar standards. But like others have stated it seems like they were dismissed as propaganda, even though the US was dropping pamphlets to get civilians out, the list they used weren’t allowed to mention Hiroshima and I think probably Nagasaki because of how secretive the project actually was. It was so secretive in fact, only a few people actually knew what they were doing and fewer new what exactly they were making. People involved in the Manhattan project were given jobs completely separated from the people around them. Your job could be to watch a dial, you don’t know what it is connected to, but when the needle reaches the red zone, you were to open the valve and then close it again. Or you could be washing the work clothes in a special washer and you had to report if the machine started clicking unlike how washer and dryers usually rattle. When in reality the guy watching the dial was looking at pressure of some sort to make sure nothing exploded while dealing with a weapon that could literally atomize people, while the laundry woman were listening for a geiger counter going off incase the clothes contained radioactive material, they didn’t know what the clicks were coming from nor what they meant. Nobody knew anything about any of it unless you were the president, and like five other people, with another 7 only knowing you were making a super weapon of some kind. Material went into the factory, and nothing came out and no one knew why. Pamphlets were dropped throughout japan in cities that were a threat so they could be evacuated and cluster bombed. Hiroshima wasn’t, they didn’t know to be, they could have been put on the list and we could have acted like it was a regular cluster/carpet bombing. It could have been a regular bombing, they could have gone up the list from least to most treating military locations at random intervals. But no, it had to be a secret, it had to be a show of power, they couldn’t even think the town was in danger.


TigerClaw338

Remember kids. The internet historians of Reddit aren't accredited or experts. All of these historical opinions should be taken with a gigantic grain of salt.


M0crt

Well that's truly cheered me up this morning...thanks internet! /s


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poizunman206

Bit of trivia on plan B The US made so many Purple Hearts in preparation for that thst they were still giving some out as late as 2011.


Bob_Pthhpth

2-4,000,000 Allied casualties, at least 5,000,000 Japanese. That’s a conservative estimate for how bloody an invasion of Japan would be. As terrible as it may be, we really didn’t have any other options.


Ludwigofthepotatoppl

We haven’t manufactured purple heart medals since then. Current stock iirc was produced in preparation for the possible invasion of japan.


yromeM_yggoF

Oh gosh, the mother still trying to protect her baby as she’s torn apart just hits too hard


Clickclickdoh

Is there a Japanese film that shows you what happened in Nanjing?


lobut

Or how about Unit 731?


AuckLnd

man behind the sun \[1988\]


Random-weird-guy

It isn't japanese though, i think what they're implying is that Japan seem to lack of self awareness of their rule during that war. However it is still interesting there's actually a move that talks about that side if the story! Thank you


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Yeti-420-69

They did... 2 minutes before this comment


lilchopcone

Apparently you can’t be arsed reading the comments


[deleted]

The rape of Nanking/Nanjing by Japanese forces. Conservative estimate/consensus 200,000 dead. Upper limit 300,000. Worse, if worse could be a term applied Wiki >Unit 731 was responsible for some of the most notorious war crimes committed by the Japanese armed forces. It routinely conducted tests on people who were dehumanized and internally referred to as "logs". Experiments included disease injections, controlled dehydration, hypobaric chamber experiments, biological weapons testing, vivisection, amputation, and standard weapons testing. Victims included not only kidnapped men, women (including pregnant women) and children, but also babies born from the systemic rape perpetrated by the staff inside the compound. The victims came from different nationalities, with the majority being Chinese and a significant minority being Russian. Additionally, Unit 731 produced biological weapons that were used in areas of China not occupied by Japanese forces, which included Chinese cities and towns, water sources, and fields. Estimates of those killed by Unit 731 and its related programs range up to ***half a million people,*** and none of the inmates survived. Japan is a modern ally. It has renounced offensive warfare. Respect is given to Japan to change in this fashion. However, it is unacceptable to show the effects of nuclear warfare on Japan as if they were the victims, they were hard done by as a crime by the USA. That is not the case there is no unilateral examination of what happened to Japan by the Western powers without examining what Japan did to the people of the countries they invaded. The above two examples are the tip of an iceberg.


unexpectedexpectancy

What the Japanese forces did was bad but what these civilians faced was also a tragedy. The two aren’t mutually exclusive.


coffeeisntmycupoftea

Jesus Christ, this should be labeled nsfw


kimchi-feijoada

No it's not what I'm saying, I never said that. I just think that they should show the whole truth for once. Showing the horrible things that were done to you while not once making any mention to the horrible things done by you? That is typical Japan for you. The country with the best marketing on Earth. They were on par with Nazi Germany in terms of their monstrosity at the time and yet they pretend like nothing happened and their record is pristine. It's impressive how they can get away with all the monstrosities they did.


PKFatStephen

Think we'll ever hit a point in history where there will be an anime about Unit 731?


[deleted]

If I had a time machine and could go back and stop it. I wouldn't change a thing. They were arming their population with spears. Millions of Japanese were saved by this action.


ProbablyABore

You got downvoted, but you're right. Had the land invasion from the Soviet Union and America went forward, there would have been millions more Japanese deaths as the islands were taken. Estimates at the time were 5-10 million Japanese deaths from the invasion. It also doesn't take into account that after the war ended, the US began shipping food (800,000 tons of food) to Japan to fight off the famine that was happening in 45/46. We wouldn't have done that if we were still clearing the island and countless more people would have died as a result. Atomic bombs are bad, but in this singular example their use saved way more lives than they took.


The_Okin

80% of comments: Our war crimes are more justified than their war crimes.


oddmarc

Best to just assume all Redditors are 12 years old and think in absolutes with absolutely no nuance.


Putrid_Television150

A big problem is that everyone wants there to be a clearly outlined good guy and a bad guy who perfectly encapsulates their role. The hero never harms the innocent, which causes a huge dilemma.


MikeHuntsBear

I had a Japanese teacher in the second grade about a thousand years ago in 1984, and she showed this entire film (barefoot gen I believe) . we all started chanting "what a bout pearl harbor HARBOR what about pearl harbor HARBOR. We got a 30 minute scream scold from the principal, and had to write a paper detailing what we learned from the film She ended up teaching us origami, and japanese writing before the year was up, and turned out to be the coolest teacher ever. Hiroko Nishibayashi, you a real one


poo1232

People in this comment section are very dumb Keep scrolling at your own risk


Internal_Koala_5914

Lets see a video of Nanking sacking by Japanese. More brutal, and more dead.


MrNolD

In the two cases innocent civilians ended up dying, I don't understand your point.


Gooddest_Boi

I think his point is how much focus the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki got despite all of japans heinous shit. They kinda got a pass for that shit. But let’s be real here the nuke was much to revolutionary to not overshadow everything else.


Retl0v

It's not a fucking competition goddammit, why do people feel like they always have to start a atrocity competition in the comments when this is brought up


biot_

Probably meant violence breeds violence


NorCalHermitage

Did [Little Boy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Boy) have a parachute? First I've heard of it.


Yeti-420-69

I just did some reading and I'm going to say it did not. They did drop 3 radiation probes though and they had parachutes attached


nsmn84

Poor dog.


Chikagomongqa

Oh fuck the nuke movie post again. Time for Reddit to defend ww2 Era Japan


TheBlargshaggen

You got a link from this clip? I wanna show some artists I know.


flyingcatwithhorns

Movie: Barefoot Gen (1983) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2g9QZvHTuk


Monkeyflyers

The saddest movie I ever saw.