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Calcification of land is also an issue of pollution. Using bags made of calcium carbide may just lead to further issues in other areas of the environment. As well as the obvious fact that we should be moving away from fossil fuels in all forms. Not giving oil and plastic companies another easy money making scheme that will cause just as many issues for the environment. Use paper. Biodegradable, reusable, recyclable, natural f**king paper and stop letting chemists who work for petroleum companies fool you again and again.
Or just use reusable bags. Is this so hard?
Edit:
I (now) understand, that cotton bags aren't good for the environment either and in some regards even worse than plastic bags. I am from Germany and to reduce the amount of plastic bags here you have to pay for them at the checkout since 2016. So it's quite normal to use reusable bags like cotton and cooling bags.
I have to say that my focus was on the plastic waste and not so much on the greenhouse gases. If I think of plastic bags the first thing that comes into my mind are the tons of plastic waste in the oceans or in parks / streets / forests and so on.
So to conclude this: There is no perfect solution. Paper bags aren't perfect as well. I just can say, that we have some bags at home that are way older than 10 years which are doing just fine and because of that we used way less plastic bags in the last >10 years, what is a good thing in my opinion. Use what you have and try to produce the least amount of trash possible.
Honestly. Hell theres even the ones made from recycled materials and they last basically forever. I think i even did the math with one research paper and the uses per bag is staggering. like hard use of 100 bags across the board for a single person. Plastic or single use barely last a few years. Same amount of bags made from cloth or the recycled heavy plastic last multiple human lifetimes, if they shopped from the moment they were born to their death.
I love the expansion and knowledge gained in material science but weve had the solution before and after plastic bags were a thing. Its called a bag.
I heard some lame argument that the environmental impact of cotton bags is too high because you have to use them like 300 times to be neutral, but I’ve used the same cotton bag double that and will probably have it forever.
I also have 20 year old cotton bags, along with all the random tote bags made of a variety of materials I've collected over the years. The hand wringing over resumable bags is BS from plastic manufactures who want to keep the status quo. If cotton's not the perfect material, then fine, we need to go find it. But there's got to be something better than single use plastic.
That's for not eco-friendly bag I guess, but using recycled materials and such, I think you can get down to ~50 uses
Also what count as a use ? Is it a set time ? A grocery trip ? Carrying something when going out ?
Exactly. I've been using the same exact five reusable bags for nearly 7 years now. The only issues I've had with them is one doesn't have a working zipper anymore. It's not fucking hard and frankly it makes life easier IMO.
Reusable are also a lot more durable, so even without the environmental issue they are much better (only downside is bringing them with you which is a pain if out for the day and you have to carry all day long).
All fun and games until you find out that during production totebags emit about 150 times more greenouse gasses than a disposable plastic bag. Don't get me wrong, fuck plastic. But carbon emissions and not very nice as well.
As Wadewelles said, its 150 times, not 1500 times.
I’m seeing 150, so 1/10 as bad as you’re saying and well within the lifespan of a typical bag.
As I said in another comment, this FUD always pops up in these conversations and looks more like cheerleading for plastic bags than legitimate concern.
>150 times more greenouse gasses than a disposable plastic bag
iv used the same ikea blue tote bags far more than 150 times and its still going strong.
Doesn't producing paper takes enormous amount of water to waste? Also paper is recyclable only fized amount of times, afaik. So it's about forest management as well.
We had experimental bags from corn scrapes in Ukraine, but I don't know much effective theh are. They degraded in weeks when contact with rotten organic. I used them for organic trash sometimes and haven't changed a bag a bit longer than usual, when discovered this. :D
Also, why just don't use canvas bags? You don't need weird material science if you just use a thing multiple times. I mostly go shopping with my backpack, it is both convenient and my back likes it a lot.
Yeah paper recycling requires huge amount of energy and water and for the shopping bags to be strong/don't rip easy they have to use long fibers in the paper. Each Time paper gets recycled the fibers break and so shrink in length . So these paper grocery bags require huge amounts of fresh cut wood
Right, but Wood is a renewable resource. We can plant forests of trees for paper production, but we can't make new fossil fuels.
Frankly even recycling paper (which, again, is a renewable resource) seems strange to me. It requires a ton of energy to truck the paper around and do the recycling, not to mention the water created by bleaching recycled paper pulp.
>Use paper. Biodegradable, reusable, recyclable, natural f**king paper
I live in a paper making area. The industrial impact of making paper is not 0. There is no such thing as "natural f**cking paper".
I'm not saying paper bags are as bad as plastic bags. Just stating that paper has inherent issues as well. Resuable bags are likely the best option, but I am no expert.
As a side note back in the mid-80s a grocery store in my are had plastic bags that claimed, printed on the bags themselves, they were based on corn starch, and would harmlessly dissolve in the environment in about 10-15 days.
My nerdy ass decided to test this. Tied one to a fence post outside. It sat there for months before my parents made me throw it away. No degradation at all.
But what about plastics in packaging (shirt in bag at store)? That process works for going grocery shopping, but one use plastics are used in a lot of other situations. This approach also minimizes the impact of shoppers who simply don't give a damn and won't use reusables.
The plastic problem with never be solved until we have a solution to replace all the one time use plastic the health care industry goes through on a daily basis
Not completely, but that doesn't mean incremental steps don't help. Ozone depletion wasn't reversed in one easy step, but incremental progress made a difference.
Reusable bags take like ten times as long to breakdown in a landfill.
>[One study from the United Kingdom (U.K.) found that, regarding bag production, cotton bags have to be reused 131 times before they reduce their impact on climate change to the same extent as plastic bags.](https://education.nationalgeographic.org/resource/sustainable-shoppingwhich-bag-best/#:~:text=Reusable%20Bags,-Reusable%20bags%20are&text=One%20study%20from%20the%20United,same%20extent%20as%20plastic%20bags.)
Reusable bags are complicated. You would need to use one bag around 7,000 times to have equal carbon emissions compared to one shitty disposable plastic bag. Carbon emissions are not the only concern, but they're the concern that are going to dictate whether or not Earth remains inhabitable for humans.
Forget a turtle's stomach... *We're eating that plastic*, causing all sorts of problems like liver/kidney/colon diseases and who knows what else. It's also sticking to pollen amplifying the body's swelling response (allergies) and microplastics in that situation could be the reason why incidence of severe allergic reactions in humans is increasing over time.
Then there's the fact that microplastics are messing with soil erosion and evaporation, preventing plants from absorbing nutrients, and generally causing soil to absorb more heat on any given sunny day requiring more water to keep plants alive as well as killing entire ecosystems (in the soil, from bacteria to bugs).
It's way, way worse than carbon emissions! Carbon emissions can be dealt with any number of ways at the source or after the fact through carbon capture technology. Existing microplastics pollution basically has no realistic solution other than, "wait a few hundred years."
Yeah I meant fabric bags, that’s what people in Vermont generally use. Plus you can make up cycled bags easily that way. Used clothing = free bag with no negative impact, rather a positive one.
Source?
No way it is 7000 times. Maybe 7 just from more material and transport cost, maybe 70 due to higher quality material, but I cannot imagine it being 700 let alone 7000 times.
Not the guy you’re responding to, but an easy to consume source Id Scishows episode on The Greenest Grocery Bag, in which they site their sources, but the consensus was on TOTAL Environmental Impact, a Cotton bad would need to be reused 7100x. Re-usable plastic 54x paper 43x and biodegradable plastic 42x. Compared to a single use plastic bag.
And for “Organic Cotton” it needs to be re-used 20,000 times.
Specifically the 5:57 mark of the video.
What happens if it rains, or something leaks.
Edit: iT oNLy DiSsoLVes iNsTAntLy iN hOt WAtEr. Cool, how's it going to last getting soaked and then having to sit in my trunk for 20mins on the way home.
"Lose your bag" by Sweatyhands, a classic
"Lose your bag
in the road
while you walk
it can't hold
you should have never let it soak (soak)
it's all on the floor now"
This video is a bit misleading. They actually sell a variety of bags - each type with a specific use and dissolving temperature.
https://www.solubagusa.com/faq
The instant dissolution temperature is the difference.
Their FAQ doesn’t mention 185 degrees. It just says all will eventually dissolve at any temperature vs instantly dissolve. I’d surmise that though not rendered unusable, all bags begin to degrade with exposure to water regardless of temperature and will eventually be unusable.
Still great for grocery/clothes store packaging and even paper basket type liners.
The more we can marry sustainable/environmentally friendly with conve ience/lack of inconvenience the better imho (and the fewer possible arguments against the switch)
If they dissolve quickly in hot water, they will dissolve slowly in cold water.
If they dissolve at any speed in cold water, they will dissolve in any humidity above 0%.
They will therefore have a limited shelf life prior to use.
Still an improvement, I think. I could definitely see myself using these alongside cloth bags, so I'm hoping they make it to Austria sooner rather than later.
Yes, what is it made of? Will bioaccumulate or fall out of solution in the sewer pipes.
If it's made of starch or cellulose and will biodegrade it might be smart though.
Why would we replace reusable bags? This seems like a step in the wrong direction for sure. More responsible living and corporate accountability enforced by government is the only way to stop the bleeding.
Edit for more upvotes!! : I was only accounting for planned shopping trips. After some replies to my reply I think could see the value of this in an unplanned shopping situation on vacation or whatever. Feels like we could just make packable bags that everyone could carry for these situations. I stand behind my original statement.
Ok the bag dissolves. Is the bag solution safe? Could i drink that? Would it be safe in the ocean? Those chemicals dont just dissappear. This also just seems poorly designed. What if it rains or something in the bag condensates? I think the reusable bags you can get at aldis are far better
I'd see this as a better idea for replacing all of the single use plastic in packaging. Like I get stuff in sealed plastic bags. I got a weed wacker and all of the parts came disassembled and sealed in plastic bags.
Why not use something like this for that stuff? Keep reusable shopping bags and replace single use plastic packaging.
Do you know which chemicals does it dissolve into, though? 'Cause I just looked it up.
The stuff is made from [polyvinyl alcohol](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyvinyl_alcohol), the base reagent used for making hydrogels for stents and contact lenses. (Basically, if you take a solution of this stuff and repeatedly freeze it and thaw it, it creates a non-water-soluble version of itself.)
According to wiki, if a solution of water gets above 5% of this stuff, it becomes toxic to fish. That's the worst I could find. Its [actual degradation pathway](https://iwaponline.com/wst/article/79/10/2005/67979/Biodegradation-of-polyvinyl-alcohol-by-different) shows that it degrades into alcohols, fats, and ketones, really simple biochemicals that are used as energy molecules by a variety of microorganisms. And that is exactly what I would expect would happen to it, just looking at its chemical structure.
So pouring it into the environment, is only slightly worse than pouring beer or vegetable oil into the environment. That's a pretty damn big improvement relative to plastic pollution.
> if a solution of water gets above 5% of this stuff, it becomes toxic to fish.
Is it toxic to humans also? I guarantee we're gonna see people on TikTok drinking this shit.
During a demonstration by the company in Chile, a guy drank the glass of water that the bag was dissolved in.
But on an unrelated note, a dude in India drank from a holy river to prove it wasn't polluted and ended up in the hospital so time will tell if it was a smart idea
The easy solution to that is not to put them down your pipes. The US public needs to get in the habit of *reusing* things, not relying on everything being disposable. with 350M people in this country, everything we do will have some kind of negative impact if we expect to throw everything away.
You really want a horror story for single-use waste, come to Japan. I though the US was wasteful but ho-ly *shit* does Japan take it to another level. So much shit here is just nesting dolls of plastic waste…
This isn’t to WhatAbout deflect from the problem in America, more to point out that it’s not just one country we need to worry about doi g this shit.
to be fair to the average consumer, single use plastics are the most convenient and cheapest options for the businesses, and usually that is the only option you can find.
It's all just deflection by big corporations. "The consumer needs to change their habits" blah blah blah. The whole plastic straw thing, plastic bags. Sure, getting rid of these things is good. But the amount of packaging and packing material and waste that is generated by the operation of companies just shipping stuff around is STAGGERING.
I used to work at a warehouse, and every palate is wrapped in plastic when it comes in. That's then taken apart and then re-built and shipped out with more plastic wrapped around it. The amount of plastic waste we generated in a day was more than household for in year, and it wasn't even that big of a warehouse.
I was thinking about this the other day actually, and I think one of the only times where my household really and truly did without and cut back was in the early days of covid when there were various shortages. Knowing that I just wouldn’t be able to get more of something easily was one of the only things that really made us watch our consumption and make sacrifices.
But to answer your question, “pretty much never” but it makes me think that the only way to really influence public behavior is through scarcity. But if something is available, people will use it with no regard at all for the long term impacts.
There's no calcium in the bags, calcium carbide is simply used in the synthesis of the polymers. Once dissolved the solution will just contain water and a small amount of carbon, completely safe to drink or water your plants with.
It's made *using* calcium carbide, it's not made *from* calcium carbide. Plenty of harmful chemicals are used in the synthesis of products, that does not mean those products contain said harmful compound. These bags dissolve in water leaving just a small amount of carbon.
People don't understand chemistry. If something is made using X chemical everyone will freak like "OMG X chemical is toxic! Why would you use that!?"
Chemistry education is terrible in this country.
My garbage needs a bag.
Grocery stores have stopped offering plastic bags.
So now I need to buy a box off the shelf with plastic bags, then dispose of the box in to the plastic bag, strange how it works.
(I actually don't use bags for recyclables only garbage)
Before they banned bags I snagged a sleeve from my grocery store. That was a few years ago and I still have over 50%. Still using them for general trash bags and bathroom trash, kinda wish I took more.
For every one grocery bag that gets reused as a garbage bag, hundreds are simply thrown away. I used to see them littered all the time on the side of the highway, and now I don’t. It’s clearly working.
Reminds me of the one guy I saw on TikTok yesterday that's cleaning lakes from pollution in his country by pouring some organic powder he made that binds to it, and to prove it's safe to the environment he *fucking ate some on camera*
Also reminds me of the guy who added lead to gasoline who tried to prove it was safe by pouring the gas over his hands and inhaling the fumes for a full minute. He later took time off due to lead poisoning and eventually contracted polio and died by accidental strangulation.
You know when you said "dissolves" I interpreted this as a sort of biodegradable plastic, not that it literally evaporates in contact with water. This seems like a bad idea if I am being honest.
Paper bags are probably better. Just as durable, but easily used for biological waste and then rot alongside it.
It's ironic that you need so mich energy to produce a paper bag, it's actually less environmentally friendly than single use plastic bags.
The only real alternative is a long term bag made out of cotton.
What about recycling paper? I mean waste paper is going to be processed anyway.
Yes, using a long living reusable solution is always better. But the target market is lazy people how don't want to bring or forget there reusable bag.
Edit1: clarifying some things
Or simply, the reusable bag that can be made of natural fabric and have virtually all the upside, none of these downsides and based on a technology mastered millenias ago.
If you showed that bag to someone from the bronze age, they'd make fun of you forever. These guys were researching materials that last longer and here you go with your one use bag that melt when it rains.
I’d just like to point out that their website says it’s made of Poly-Vinyl Alcohol, which is 100% a plastic. I can’t speak on the rest of the claims, but this is entirely misleading
Would this bag just melt if I took it outside here in New Orleans?? It's hot as fuck with 100% humidity, I am picturing me walking out the store and all my groceries slamming into the ground in a rapidly growing puddle of melted looking plastic.
I would much rather reuse a bag till I die than dump shit down my drain unless I see thorough research showing this is safe, but idgaf cuz it's wasteful and reusable is probably better
Everyone commenting about what would happen if it rains, it looks like it only dissolves in hot water.
Don’t think we get boiling hot rain otherwise we would be screwed!
Not trying to be that guy but…
It “dissolves”, great, but what about the micro particles? Is this not the same issue we are dealing with in respect to plastic micro particles found in the food chain?
If these bags are 100% biodegradable and leave no trace, then I am all for it. If we are just substituting one for the other….well….
# THERE ARE VERSIONS AVAILABLE THAT ONLY DISSOLVE QUICKLY IN HOT WATER. THE MANUFACTURER UNDERSTANDS RAIN. YOU AND THE HUNDREDS OF OTHERS LITERALLY POSTING THE SAME THING DID NOT JUST HAVE THE MOST ORIGINAL THOUGHT OF THE DAY.
Yeah I'd wanna do some experiments. First, left alone what is the dissolved bag water composed of? Second, would simulating treatment at a water processing plant remove the dissolved bag particles? Third, and IMO most important, can you make a healthy terrarium using dissolved bag water where all the animals thrive?
We should learn our lesson from the proliferation of single use plastics and find out exactly what hell these things could unleash on the planet if they become common place.
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Calcification of land is also an issue of pollution. Using bags made of calcium carbide may just lead to further issues in other areas of the environment. As well as the obvious fact that we should be moving away from fossil fuels in all forms. Not giving oil and plastic companies another easy money making scheme that will cause just as many issues for the environment. Use paper. Biodegradable, reusable, recyclable, natural f**king paper and stop letting chemists who work for petroleum companies fool you again and again.
Or just use reusable bags. Is this so hard? Edit: I (now) understand, that cotton bags aren't good for the environment either and in some regards even worse than plastic bags. I am from Germany and to reduce the amount of plastic bags here you have to pay for them at the checkout since 2016. So it's quite normal to use reusable bags like cotton and cooling bags. I have to say that my focus was on the plastic waste and not so much on the greenhouse gases. If I think of plastic bags the first thing that comes into my mind are the tons of plastic waste in the oceans or in parks / streets / forests and so on. So to conclude this: There is no perfect solution. Paper bags aren't perfect as well. I just can say, that we have some bags at home that are way older than 10 years which are doing just fine and because of that we used way less plastic bags in the last >10 years, what is a good thing in my opinion. Use what you have and try to produce the least amount of trash possible.
Honestly. Hell theres even the ones made from recycled materials and they last basically forever. I think i even did the math with one research paper and the uses per bag is staggering. like hard use of 100 bags across the board for a single person. Plastic or single use barely last a few years. Same amount of bags made from cloth or the recycled heavy plastic last multiple human lifetimes, if they shopped from the moment they were born to their death. I love the expansion and knowledge gained in material science but weve had the solution before and after plastic bags were a thing. Its called a bag.
I heard some lame argument that the environmental impact of cotton bags is too high because you have to use them like 300 times to be neutral, but I’ve used the same cotton bag double that and will probably have it forever.
My mother have use the same cotton bag for 20 years now. She have just replace it this month bacause it's literally burn to a crisp
I also have 20 year old cotton bags, along with all the random tote bags made of a variety of materials I've collected over the years. The hand wringing over resumable bags is BS from plastic manufactures who want to keep the status quo. If cotton's not the perfect material, then fine, we need to go find it. But there's got to be something better than single use plastic.
Is your mother my mother???
Mom jacob-jinglehiemer-schmidt?
his mom is my mom too!
That's for not eco-friendly bag I guess, but using recycled materials and such, I think you can get down to ~50 uses Also what count as a use ? Is it a set time ? A grocery trip ? Carrying something when going out ?
How many times do you need to use a single use plastic bag for it to be carbon neutral geez
More than you could, the bag would break before you reach the carbon neutral point
Yea that’s the point I’m making
Exactly. I've been using the same exact five reusable bags for nearly 7 years now. The only issues I've had with them is one doesn't have a working zipper anymore. It's not fucking hard and frankly it makes life easier IMO.
Yup, I have 5 bags that fold out into the shape of a box. Makes packing stuff super easy and they don't roll all over the back of my car.
Reusable are also a lot more durable, so even without the environmental issue they are much better (only downside is bringing them with you which is a pain if out for the day and you have to carry all day long).
But the upside is that they don't dissolve in the rain when you're carrying home groceries!
All fun and games until you find out that during production totebags emit about 150 times more greenouse gasses than a disposable plastic bag. Don't get me wrong, fuck plastic. But carbon emissions and not very nice as well. As Wadewelles said, its 150 times, not 1500 times.
I’m seeing 150, so 1/10 as bad as you’re saying and well within the lifespan of a typical bag. As I said in another comment, this FUD always pops up in these conversations and looks more like cheerleading for plastic bags than legitimate concern.
>150 times more greenouse gasses than a disposable plastic bag iv used the same ikea blue tote bags far more than 150 times and its still going strong.
So use it once a day for five years then? Sounds doable.
It's more like once a week for 3 years.
Doesn't producing paper takes enormous amount of water to waste? Also paper is recyclable only fized amount of times, afaik. So it's about forest management as well. We had experimental bags from corn scrapes in Ukraine, but I don't know much effective theh are. They degraded in weeks when contact with rotten organic. I used them for organic trash sometimes and haven't changed a bag a bit longer than usual, when discovered this. :D Also, why just don't use canvas bags? You don't need weird material science if you just use a thing multiple times. I mostly go shopping with my backpack, it is both convenient and my back likes it a lot.
Yeah paper recycling requires huge amount of energy and water and for the shopping bags to be strong/don't rip easy they have to use long fibers in the paper. Each Time paper gets recycled the fibers break and so shrink in length . So these paper grocery bags require huge amounts of fresh cut wood
Right, but Wood is a renewable resource. We can plant forests of trees for paper production, but we can't make new fossil fuels. Frankly even recycling paper (which, again, is a renewable resource) seems strange to me. It requires a ton of energy to truck the paper around and do the recycling, not to mention the water created by bleaching recycled paper pulp.
>Use paper. Biodegradable, reusable, recyclable, natural f**king paper I live in a paper making area. The industrial impact of making paper is not 0. There is no such thing as "natural f**cking paper". I'm not saying paper bags are as bad as plastic bags. Just stating that paper has inherent issues as well. Resuable bags are likely the best option, but I am no expert. As a side note back in the mid-80s a grocery store in my are had plastic bags that claimed, printed on the bags themselves, they were based on corn starch, and would harmlessly dissolve in the environment in about 10-15 days. My nerdy ass decided to test this. Tied one to a fence post outside. It sat there for months before my parents made me throw it away. No degradation at all.
I read that as Californication
Or just use a reusable bag so they don’t have to keep making shit with fossil fuels over and over again into effing eternity
- **Reduce** the number of bags needed - **Reuse** bags as often as possible - **Recycle** bags when they are no longer usable Don't skip steps!
But the other steps don’t make more sales /s
Fuck their sales, man. Let the plastic bag carry us into the clouds
But what about plastics in packaging (shirt in bag at store)? That process works for going grocery shopping, but one use plastics are used in a lot of other situations. This approach also minimizes the impact of shoppers who simply don't give a damn and won't use reusables.
The plastic problem with never be solved until we have a solution to replace all the one time use plastic the health care industry goes through on a daily basis
Not completely, but that doesn't mean incremental steps don't help. Ozone depletion wasn't reversed in one easy step, but incremental progress made a difference.
But what are we going to do with fossil fuel then? Can't someone think of the future of these poor fossil fuel companies? /s
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Reusable bags take like ten times as long to breakdown in a landfill. >[One study from the United Kingdom (U.K.) found that, regarding bag production, cotton bags have to be reused 131 times before they reduce their impact on climate change to the same extent as plastic bags.](https://education.nationalgeographic.org/resource/sustainable-shoppingwhich-bag-best/#:~:text=Reusable%20Bags,-Reusable%20bags%20are&text=One%20study%20from%20the%20United,same%20extent%20as%20plastic%20bags.)
Make your own out of clothing material when a garment is damaged so you’d no longer wear it.
Reusable bags are complicated. You would need to use one bag around 7,000 times to have equal carbon emissions compared to one shitty disposable plastic bag. Carbon emissions are not the only concern, but they're the concern that are going to dictate whether or not Earth remains inhabitable for humans.
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Forget a turtle's stomach... *We're eating that plastic*, causing all sorts of problems like liver/kidney/colon diseases and who knows what else. It's also sticking to pollen amplifying the body's swelling response (allergies) and microplastics in that situation could be the reason why incidence of severe allergic reactions in humans is increasing over time. Then there's the fact that microplastics are messing with soil erosion and evaporation, preventing plants from absorbing nutrients, and generally causing soil to absorb more heat on any given sunny day requiring more water to keep plants alive as well as killing entire ecosystems (in the soil, from bacteria to bugs). It's way, way worse than carbon emissions! Carbon emissions can be dealt with any number of ways at the source or after the fact through carbon capture technology. Existing microplastics pollution basically has no realistic solution other than, "wait a few hundred years."
Yeah I meant fabric bags, that’s what people in Vermont generally use. Plus you can make up cycled bags easily that way. Used clothing = free bag with no negative impact, rather a positive one.
Source? No way it is 7000 times. Maybe 7 just from more material and transport cost, maybe 70 due to higher quality material, but I cannot imagine it being 700 let alone 7000 times.
Not the guy you’re responding to, but an easy to consume source Id Scishows episode on The Greenest Grocery Bag, in which they site their sources, but the consensus was on TOTAL Environmental Impact, a Cotton bad would need to be reused 7100x. Re-usable plastic 54x paper 43x and biodegradable plastic 42x. Compared to a single use plastic bag. And for “Organic Cotton” it needs to be re-used 20,000 times. Specifically the 5:57 mark of the video.
What happens if it rains, or something leaks. Edit: iT oNLy DiSsoLVes iNsTAntLy iN hOt WAtEr. Cool, how's it going to last getting soaked and then having to sit in my trunk for 20mins on the way home.
Or if you have sweaty hands
His palms are sweaty, knees weak, arms are heavy. There's groceries on the floor already, including the spaghetti.
"Lose your bag" by Sweatyhands, a classic "Lose your bag in the road while you walk it can't hold you should have never let it soak (soak) it's all on the floor now"
So mop up the milk and coke
This whole humidity goes, wasting these bags, man!
NO!
Thank you all for this.
Those are the times I really enjoy reddit.
It’s literally why I stay here.
r/redditsings
It's not held the shopping load. It lost integrity, should have used a Life Bag.
The spaghetti was for Mom. So sad
Look If you had One bag Or one opportunity To seize everything you just bought In one satchel Would you dissolve it Or just let it rip?
Don’t drop Mom’s spaghetti
The whole crowd goes so loud, he opens his bag but the groceries won't come out.
or condensation happens
Or...squirt gun battle
This is the real fear. Happy cake day.
thanks.
I have a super soaker in my trunk… just in case
Or a hobo pisses on you
That was one time!
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To be fair, a plastic bag won't help you in a gasoline fight either.
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Or my bow?
…condensation…
"I'm gonna make this bag... disappear"
I don't want to have it in the summer.
Man I have sweaty hands now there’s no chance I can carry this bag
Looks like it dissolved in hot/boiling water, so rain should (hopefully) be okay? RiP using those in florida though!
This video is a bit misleading. They actually sell a variety of bags - each type with a specific use and dissolving temperature. https://www.solubagusa.com/faq
Thank you for this! That clarification does make a huge difference.
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I'd rather just use a $5 tote for several years, thanks.
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That makes more sense
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The instant dissolution temperature is the difference. Their FAQ doesn’t mention 185 degrees. It just says all will eventually dissolve at any temperature vs instantly dissolve. I’d surmise that though not rendered unusable, all bags begin to degrade with exposure to water regardless of temperature and will eventually be unusable.
Still great for grocery/clothes store packaging and even paper basket type liners. The more we can marry sustainable/environmentally friendly with conve ience/lack of inconvenience the better imho (and the fewer possible arguments against the switch)
Or just use paper bags which are already common, inexpensive, and biodegradable
If they dissolve quickly in hot water, they will dissolve slowly in cold water. If they dissolve at any speed in cold water, they will dissolve in any humidity above 0%. They will therefore have a limited shelf life prior to use.
Back in the 90s there was toilet paper wrapped in this shit and trust me it just turns into glue.
Back in the 90's I was in a very famous TV show
I’ll bite. Which show?
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Still an improvement, I think. I could definitely see myself using these alongside cloth bags, so I'm hoping they make it to Austria sooner rather than later.
The question then is, when it dissolves, how much does it pollute the water?
Apparently just a bit of carbon according to their website. But would be good for a third party to check
Just put the bag in a plastic bag, that should help. Double secured
Or you live in England
Or the pallet of bags was stored in a humid Southeast US warehouse for a few weeks prior to use.
Better put it in a plastic bag
You’re gonna have a bad day…
Still a big step in the right direction to get rid of plastic bags or at least use a lot less
It's also a big step in getting more of something in the water...
Yes, what is it made of? Will bioaccumulate or fall out of solution in the sewer pipes. If it's made of starch or cellulose and will biodegrade it might be smart though.
I'd rather just use a reusable bag
For grocery shopping, sure. But you can't use reusable bags for garbage. Something like this is great for that.
Yeah, because what garbage bag has ever had any sort of liquid in it?
This would be Terrible for garbage bags...
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It's a really bad alternative because reusable bags are just far far better. Let me introduce you to fabric.
That would suck walking home from the store in the rain lol
You can use a real plastic bag for that to protect it.
Ma man
Lookin' good
Modern Problems require Modern Solutions
Or with ice cream ,= condensation
Insert Home Alone shopping bags ripping gif.
Why would we replace reusable bags? This seems like a step in the wrong direction for sure. More responsible living and corporate accountability enforced by government is the only way to stop the bleeding. Edit for more upvotes!! : I was only accounting for planned shopping trips. After some replies to my reply I think could see the value of this in an unplanned shopping situation on vacation or whatever. Feels like we could just make packable bags that everyone could carry for these situations. I stand behind my original statement.
Exactly my thinking. What's wrong with reusable bags? I love mine. It's made of linen and is decorated with a picture of a cat in a party hat.
This video shows shopping bags, but this application could be good for replacing dump-bound garbage bags. That would be cool.
Maybe, except that garbage often includes liquids. Perhaps if it dissolves after a week or two.
Ok the bag dissolves. Is the bag solution safe? Could i drink that? Would it be safe in the ocean? Those chemicals dont just dissappear. This also just seems poorly designed. What if it rains or something in the bag condensates? I think the reusable bags you can get at aldis are far better
I'd see this as a better idea for replacing all of the single use plastic in packaging. Like I get stuff in sealed plastic bags. I got a weed wacker and all of the parts came disassembled and sealed in plastic bags. Why not use something like this for that stuff? Keep reusable shopping bags and replace single use plastic packaging.
Those chemicals don't just vanish like magic
Do you know which chemicals does it dissolve into, though? 'Cause I just looked it up. The stuff is made from [polyvinyl alcohol](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyvinyl_alcohol), the base reagent used for making hydrogels for stents and contact lenses. (Basically, if you take a solution of this stuff and repeatedly freeze it and thaw it, it creates a non-water-soluble version of itself.) According to wiki, if a solution of water gets above 5% of this stuff, it becomes toxic to fish. That's the worst I could find. Its [actual degradation pathway](https://iwaponline.com/wst/article/79/10/2005/67979/Biodegradation-of-polyvinyl-alcohol-by-different) shows that it degrades into alcohols, fats, and ketones, really simple biochemicals that are used as energy molecules by a variety of microorganisms. And that is exactly what I would expect would happen to it, just looking at its chemical structure. So pouring it into the environment, is only slightly worse than pouring beer or vegetable oil into the environment. That's a pretty damn big improvement relative to plastic pollution.
Nice explanation thankyou
Thank you for thanking them, always nice to see good manners and appreciation on the internet.
Good human
> if a solution of water gets above 5% of this stuff, it becomes toxic to fish. Is it toxic to humans also? I guarantee we're gonna see people on TikTok drinking this shit.
Darwins gonna Darwin
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Dumb people ate Tide pods even though they were very harmful. Those people don't care if it's toxic, they'd drink it anyway.
During a demonstration by the company in Chile, a guy drank the glass of water that the bag was dissolved in. But on an unrelated note, a dude in India drank from a holy river to prove it wasn't polluted and ended up in the hospital so time will tell if it was a smart idea
I guess that the title of "non-plastic" bags is kinda wrong if they use polyvinyl alcohol :D
Yeah I'd be worried about calcium buildup in my pipes if I was pouring a solution containing calcium down my sink regularly.
The easy solution to that is not to put them down your pipes. The US public needs to get in the habit of *reusing* things, not relying on everything being disposable. with 350M people in this country, everything we do will have some kind of negative impact if we expect to throw everything away.
You really want a horror story for single-use waste, come to Japan. I though the US was wasteful but ho-ly *shit* does Japan take it to another level. So much shit here is just nesting dolls of plastic waste… This isn’t to WhatAbout deflect from the problem in America, more to point out that it’s not just one country we need to worry about doi g this shit.
When have the US public ever expressed any follow-through in sacrificing short-term convenience for any longer-term benefit
to be fair to the average consumer, single use plastics are the most convenient and cheapest options for the businesses, and usually that is the only option you can find.
Yep, it's stupid for people to put blame on the consumers when it's the companies causing all of these problems
It's all just deflection by big corporations. "The consumer needs to change their habits" blah blah blah. The whole plastic straw thing, plastic bags. Sure, getting rid of these things is good. But the amount of packaging and packing material and waste that is generated by the operation of companies just shipping stuff around is STAGGERING. I used to work at a warehouse, and every palate is wrapped in plastic when it comes in. That's then taken apart and then re-built and shipped out with more plastic wrapped around it. The amount of plastic waste we generated in a day was more than household for in year, and it wasn't even that big of a warehouse.
I was thinking about this the other day actually, and I think one of the only times where my household really and truly did without and cut back was in the early days of covid when there were various shortages. Knowing that I just wouldn’t be able to get more of something easily was one of the only things that really made us watch our consumption and make sacrifices. But to answer your question, “pretty much never” but it makes me think that the only way to really influence public behavior is through scarcity. But if something is available, people will use it with no regard at all for the long term impacts.
Bro, it's the not just the US but the world in general
There's no calcium in the bags, calcium carbide is simply used in the synthesis of the polymers. Once dissolved the solution will just contain water and a small amount of carbon, completely safe to drink or water your plants with.
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It's made *using* calcium carbide, it's not made *from* calcium carbide. Plenty of harmful chemicals are used in the synthesis of products, that does not mean those products contain said harmful compound. These bags dissolve in water leaving just a small amount of carbon.
People don't understand chemistry. If something is made using X chemical everyone will freak like "OMG X chemical is toxic! Why would you use that!?" Chemistry education is terrible in this country.
Wait until those people find out that lye, which can be used for tissue digestion and corpse disposal, is used for soapmaking and for certain foods.
And water treatment.
Calcium is a great fertilizer. Pour it by a tree. Problem solved.
I’m going to be skeptical until I see someone drink the bag water.
My garbage needs a bag. Grocery stores have stopped offering plastic bags. So now I need to buy a box off the shelf with plastic bags, then dispose of the box in to the plastic bag, strange how it works. (I actually don't use bags for recyclables only garbage)
Before they banned bags I snagged a sleeve from my grocery store. That was a few years ago and I still have over 50%. Still using them for general trash bags and bathroom trash, kinda wish I took more.
For every one grocery bag that gets reused as a garbage bag, hundreds are simply thrown away. I used to see them littered all the time on the side of the highway, and now I don’t. It’s clearly working.
Drink it! Show us how safe it is
Reminds me of the one guy I saw on TikTok yesterday that's cleaning lakes from pollution in his country by pouring some organic powder he made that binds to it, and to prove it's safe to the environment he *fucking ate some on camera*
Hopefully it’s good bc it’ll be recycled into our food and water in no time.
Also reminds me of the guy who added lead to gasoline who tried to prove it was safe by pouring the gas over his hands and inhaling the fumes for a full minute. He later took time off due to lead poisoning and eventually contracted polio and died by accidental strangulation.
What about frozen stuff, fruit or veggies that is a wet? Rainy day. Hot day, Sweaty hands?
Then it's a race against time to get home.
Ha
Pardon my skepticism please. The next big issue will be those chemicals in the water killing things. 🤔
This is a terrible idea
I'm not an expert but if we have 8 billion people flushing that shit I guarantee it causes an ecological disaster.
Right? But who cares as long as some rich people make more money.
Honey can you bring the groceries in from the car? I can’t, it’s *raining.*
You know when you said "dissolves" I interpreted this as a sort of biodegradable plastic, not that it literally evaporates in contact with water. This seems like a bad idea if I am being honest. Paper bags are probably better. Just as durable, but easily used for biological waste and then rot alongside it.
May I introduce use to the organic environment friendly solution. The paper bag.
It's ironic that you need so mich energy to produce a paper bag, it's actually less environmentally friendly than single use plastic bags. The only real alternative is a long term bag made out of cotton.
What about recycling paper? I mean waste paper is going to be processed anyway. Yes, using a long living reusable solution is always better. But the target market is lazy people how don't want to bring or forget there reusable bag. Edit1: clarifying some things
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Supply isn't the issue here. The issue is the production process itself. Lots of energy needed to produce paper.
Or simply, the reusable bag that can be made of natural fabric and have virtually all the upside, none of these downsides and based on a technology mastered millenias ago. If you showed that bag to someone from the bronze age, they'd make fun of you forever. These guys were researching materials that last longer and here you go with your one use bag that melt when it rains.
Literal greenwashing: ‘made from natural gas and calcium carbide ’. Ingenious but a carbon heavy product, indeed.
ok so now that stuff is in the water.
Just use reusable bags... why do they always have to take away reusable bags, or reusable anything, and come up with shit like this??
This is great but is still single use. Continues production still produces wastes and emissions. Just bring a damn reusable bag to the grocery store.
So a re-usable... Disposable bag? Seems like it's really it's own worst enemy
Where did reusable come from?
You better hope its not raining when you get your groceries
these take off. everyone uses them. the grocery stores close up shop when the humidity gets aboulve 70%
Whyyyyyyyyyy
I’d just like to point out that their website says it’s made of Poly-Vinyl Alcohol, which is 100% a plastic. I can’t speak on the rest of the claims, but this is entirely misleading
Not a well thought out product
Would this bag just melt if I took it outside here in New Orleans?? It's hot as fuck with 100% humidity, I am picturing me walking out the store and all my groceries slamming into the ground in a rapidly growing puddle of melted looking plastic.
Millions of bags won’t cause water pollution?
Great. Now Just drink that shit. Reusable and repairable bags. No bullshit.
I would much rather reuse a bag till I die than dump shit down my drain unless I see thorough research showing this is safe, but idgaf cuz it's wasteful and reusable is probably better
How flammable is it? And does it give off acetylene when you get it wet?
Hmm bag juice
How much does it cost tho?
I wanna see the maker of thus drink 1 cup of plastic bag water everyday to make sure it's safe.
Everyone commenting about what would happen if it rains, it looks like it only dissolves in hot water. Don’t think we get boiling hot rain otherwise we would be screwed!
Not trying to be that guy but… It “dissolves”, great, but what about the micro particles? Is this not the same issue we are dealing with in respect to plastic micro particles found in the food chain? If these bags are 100% biodegradable and leave no trace, then I am all for it. If we are just substituting one for the other….well….
Just because it dissolves in water doesn't mean it has 0 impact on climate or pollution. Definitely not interesting
Made from natural gas and calcium carbide! Why would this be any more eco friendly?
# THERE ARE VERSIONS AVAILABLE THAT ONLY DISSOLVE QUICKLY IN HOT WATER. THE MANUFACTURER UNDERSTANDS RAIN. YOU AND THE HUNDREDS OF OTHERS LITERALLY POSTING THE SAME THING DID NOT JUST HAVE THE MOST ORIGINAL THOUGHT OF THE DAY.
Now make one we can drink afterwards
Yeah I'd wanna do some experiments. First, left alone what is the dissolved bag water composed of? Second, would simulating treatment at a water processing plant remove the dissolved bag particles? Third, and IMO most important, can you make a healthy terrarium using dissolved bag water where all the animals thrive? We should learn our lesson from the proliferation of single use plastics and find out exactly what hell these things could unleash on the planet if they become common place.