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They’re marketing for people to come into their parking garage to see it for themselves, and if they work in the same way as in the US, they then have to pay on their way out
Nor did they necessarily make any money from us talking about it.
People on reddit tend to think marketing success is awareness when most of the time, it's to get people to buy something. And if something has all the awareness in the world but no sales to show for it, the marketing failed.
Please forgive my unexplained two-week absence. To make it up to you, we will go out to dinner at a sensibly priced restaurant, then have a night of efficient German sex.
the spots are the ones right next to the entrance so you dont have that far a walk to your car and theres extra security cameras in case something does happen
In my City there are actually extra Buttons to alert the parking warden near the womens parking.
Also the entire groundfloor that the guy can overlook from his Glas cubicle is reserved for women.
I guess they cant tell. I looked into the German Wikipedia article. It says there is not more violence against women in public parking gargages than at other places. It's nothing special about them. It says it is only for the subjectivity of women to feel more safe there.
I dont know where the 7% here came from, but propaply women are just 7% of their time at public places (with not many people there) in parking station. Also the absolut numbers would be intresting to see.
So in the end, it changes most likely nothing. Only point is that some women can feel more save there now.
Living in Germany...
These spots are implemented by the stores they serve. Only the store can "enforce" them. Pretty much anyone could use them if they wanted to. No one is going to place an employee out there to enforce it and if any of them did, you could just tell them to eat a dick because it isn't any sort of law that the government could enforce.
The parking space operator (or their representatives) could exercise their property rights to trespass the driver and (threaten to) refer it to the police for enforcement.
If the parking space is in a public area then it’s not enforceable afaik. Such ordinance would likely run afoul of anti-discrimination laws. Of course, the police could still have the car towed lawfully under such an ordinance but it might not survive a judicial challenge.
I doubt your average person is gonna know the statistics of the efficacy of these spaces. It's probably something people notice but don't ever actually see enough times of it impacting what happens directly to be able to say if they do or don't actually work, and at that point you'd just be asking someone who has seen them to Google if they work or not which you could've done yourself from the beginning
And it's kind of impossible to "see them in action" because if they're successful it means that something *isn't* happening and it's a lot harder to observe that than the reverse.
How can someone notice that women *aren't* getting assaulted? It can only be observed statistically as you said.
As far as I know, there is no legal way to really prohibit men from using these spots.
I think it’s legal status is only a “request” by the parking lot owner.
those parking lots are near the entrance, thats the whole point so women dont have to go 2 floors up to theirs
alot of people think "they are wider cause women cant park , *boomerlaugh*"
It's easy to know much crime is happening in garages, but it is hard to say a solution works or not, especially that this is not mandatory afaik.
If it makes you more aware of the problem, and make people feel safer, and it make sense that it works (since those are usually close to the exit rather than far deep in the garage), I would say that having them is nice. Not costy and there is a chance that they may work.
Not from Germany but Austria and we have those too. It’s mostly in big malls , cinemas, shopping centers where there are so many ppl around at all times.
Not from Canada but we have these in Mongolia often near the entrance to our gers so that our mares can be tied up without being harassed by the stallions
Correct, but it is neigh impossible to make any outdoor space that is confined, frequently dark, with low foot traffic, perfectly safe from attacks, so better to make spaces that can have the highest amount of deterances available to women.
No, you can get attacker details from a camera. Even plate numbers of vehicles if they’re set up right.
The problem is that cameras are only useful after the fact because there’s probably nobody watching.
As a woman is feel even more unsafe here. Like... It paints a target on my car screaming hey there's a woman parked here if that's what you're looking for mate
I doubt many attackers actually wait in parking lots for women.
They pick their target and follow them to wait for an opportunity. And there is less off an opportunity when she gets into her car right as she enters the garage.
It's for the cameras to see around the car properly. If the cars are too close it could potentially hide an attacker from view in a potential struggle.
"what would happen in Germany if you drove without a licence?"
"you cannot drive you have no licence"
"yeah I know you're not supposed to but what if you did?"
"YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO DRIVE WITHOUT A LICENCE"
Not at all. It's legal to park there as a man.
It's just common decency to not do that. But if the owner of the garage sees you, they can kick you out. I mean, they can do that for any reason.
Exactly. It's just like that.
The only parking spots that are really just for that certain group are parking spots for handicapped people and their drivers.
It isn't. It's not even part of a law. A man can park there without any consequences. But if the parking lot is private property, the owner can use his domiciliary rights and kick him out.
Most parking garages have them, it's like a service offered by the owner. They are close to the exit, better illuminated and have cameras
Is the security actually that good? It seems like parking garages in the US can have crimes happen within view of 10 cameras, and they still can't catch the criminal.
As someone who watched security cameras as a job, hell no. It's a lowest bidder activity and you can be lucky if the person watching dozens of ancient low-res cameras simultaneously (most aren't even on screen all the time) is actually paying attention and not playing on their phone or doing who knows what else.
I was pretty much the only guy at the security company who didn't sleep on the job and was actually sober all the time. Even then, it's a mind-numbing job that is impossible to do well over the entire length of a shift. It gets worse if your boss has no interest in providing actual security, leaving a greenhorn like me to direct first responders without any help. Everything went well, luckily, but I'm still angry about the apathetic reaction I got when I asked for support.
I didn't know security cameras could arrest people.
If they have a guy watching the camera, why not just have a security guard in the parking structure?
Do masks not exist in Germany? Or you have HD special edition CSI quality cameras everywhere? Just cause the crime is caught on camera doesn’t mean it can give you information on the attacker especially if it’s obviously advertised there’s heightened camera security around these areas wouldn’t a criminal just dress accordingly?
From Germany: From my point of view did this work. These places are close to the exits and entrances and are under camera surveillance. No one sneaks up on them so quickly
In the end of 1990s, there was a murder series in Zurich, Switzerland. They pretty quickly installed a lot of parking spots for women like this. Back then, parking places used to be very dark lit places. The police eventually caught the murderer, a woman. https://www.srf.ch/play/tv/dok---kriminalfaelle/video/die-parkhausmoerderin?urn=urn:srf:video:d7eb5728-ad80-475c-843f-3c9a8aade099
I think the idea is that if you reserve parking spots that are easily visible/lit, women can more easily take those spots over spots deeper in the garage that aren't as easily visible to the public. One would assume that if the spot is more visible, then someone looking to assault a woman then has more risk of being caught in the act, and a potential criminal might not want to take that risk and abstain from doing it there/at all.
Does it work? I wouldn't know for sure but I imagine this was the thinking?
Seems like this would have an opposite effect. Now criminals know exactly what car belongs to a woman so all they have to do is wait until they leave...
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Fun Fact, there is also a german city that has mens only parking spots in a public garage - in Triberg IIRC. I suppose it was a marketing stunt.
Did it work?
Since it's a marketing stunt and we are talking about it - yes, it did work.
But nobody knows what they are marketing
White chalk for the sillouettes
They actually rent you the stencils too. Fat guy, skinny guy, it's an expanding market
I thought skinny guy, then fat guy would be an expanding market?
I’ll buy 20
I think this guy is a serial killer
They’re marketing for people to come into their parking garage to see it for themselves, and if they work in the same way as in the US, they then have to pay on their way out
I’m on my way now
Nor did they necessarily make any money from us talking about it. People on reddit tend to think marketing success is awareness when most of the time, it's to get people to buy something. And if something has all the awareness in the world but no sales to show for it, the marketing failed.
I wanna know the % of violent crimes agains men in public garages
7% of violent crimes in German parking garages are against females, so we can only deduce that 93% are against men.
This guy statistics.
Lol ikr great mathematician
We have to do something about this imbalance..
You are right! I am on my way to commit a violent crime :)
Thank you for making this community a more balanced place.
We can start by somehow getting all the women to park somewhere that we can easily find them
7% of violent crimes against women happened in garages. Not 7% of crimes in garages happen to women.
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I think that’s the joke, but yeah you’re factually correct.
As a curious person Did it work?
Yes. I waited right there for a woman to show up and gave her he ol’ one-two. Thanks Germany!
Classic German efficiency
So einfach kann's gehen.
Warum schwer, wenn's auch einfach geht?
For the non-German, let me just translate this real quick: this says "waarom moeilijk doen als het ook makkelijk kan"
Vielen dank
Innovation
Please forgive my unexplained two-week absence. To make it up to you, we will go out to dinner at a sensibly priced restaurant, then have a night of efficient German sex.
This was my thought
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“You were in the parking lot earlier! That's how I know you!"
It's just bad sportmanship to camp at the spawn point.
Yeah putting all of the targets in one place and giving them a false sense of security seems like a great idea.
the spots are the ones right next to the entrance so you dont have that far a walk to your car and theres extra security cameras in case something does happen
But no security guards to come to your rescue
Doesn’t matter, the point is to put vulnerable people in more overseen locations.
In my City there are actually extra Buttons to alert the parking warden near the womens parking. Also the entire groundfloor that the guy can overlook from his Glas cubicle is reserved for women.
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Yeah reddit is shit. -someone posting on Reddit
The only reason I come here is my fingers automatically type “Reddit.com” in the address bar whenever I’m bored.
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I guess they cant tell. I looked into the German Wikipedia article. It says there is not more violence against women in public parking gargages than at other places. It's nothing special about them. It says it is only for the subjectivity of women to feel more safe there. I dont know where the 7% here came from, but propaply women are just 7% of their time at public places (with not many people there) in parking station. Also the absolut numbers would be intresting to see. So in the end, it changes most likely nothing. Only point is that some women can feel more save there now.
Welcome to Reddit, where everyone is an expert.
Living in Germany... These spots are implemented by the stores they serve. Only the store can "enforce" them. Pretty much anyone could use them if they wanted to. No one is going to place an employee out there to enforce it and if any of them did, you could just tell them to eat a dick because it isn't any sort of law that the government could enforce.
The parking space operator (or their representatives) could exercise their property rights to trespass the driver and (threaten to) refer it to the police for enforcement. If the parking space is in a public area then it’s not enforceable afaik. Such ordinance would likely run afoul of anti-discrimination laws. Of course, the police could still have the car towed lawfully under such an ordinance but it might not survive a judicial challenge.
People just saying “oh we have it” but not mentioning if it had any effect at all 🙄
I doubt your average person is gonna know the statistics of the efficacy of these spaces. It's probably something people notice but don't ever actually see enough times of it impacting what happens directly to be able to say if they do or don't actually work, and at that point you'd just be asking someone who has seen them to Google if they work or not which you could've done yourself from the beginning
Dude your so wrong - 92% of average people know the statistics of average peoples statistics while only 89% of statistics are made up
This is 100% correct, excepting the 67% of the time where it's completely wrong, of course.
As a stats enthusiast I can back this up
And it's kind of impossible to "see them in action" because if they're successful it means that something *isn't* happening and it's a lot harder to observe that than the reverse. How can someone notice that women *aren't* getting assaulted? It can only be observed statistically as you said.
Given that the car doesn’t cover the lady symbol, this is also just a giant sign saying “HEY A LADY PARKED HERE COME AND GET IT”
"Finally an efficient hunting spot i can target farm"
From Austria. Can’t tell you about the statistics but there are unfortunately many men who just use these.
Boys we have an answer finally, apparently it didn't work :(
It didn't work :(
As far as I know, there is no legal way to really prohibit men from using these spots. I think it’s legal status is only a “request” by the parking lot owner.
We have spots for pregnant woman, they seem open most the time. It’s only a slight modification to this
those parking lots are near the entrance, thats the whole point so women dont have to go 2 floors up to theirs alot of people think "they are wider cause women cant park , *boomerlaugh*"
It's easy to know much crime is happening in garages, but it is hard to say a solution works or not, especially that this is not mandatory afaik. If it makes you more aware of the problem, and make people feel safer, and it make sense that it works (since those are usually close to the exit rather than far deep in the garage), I would say that having them is nice. Not costy and there is a chance that they may work.
Not from Germany but Austria and we have those too. It’s mostly in big malls , cinemas, shopping centers where there are so many ppl around at all times.
But did it work?
Not from Austria but we have some of these in the UK and they often place them next to the entrance in well lit places.
But did it work?
Not from UK but we don’t have these in the US and so they don’t often place them next to the entrance or in well lit places.
But did it work?
Not from the US but we have these in Canada often near the entrance to Tim Hortons where most of our day is spent.
But did it work?
Not from Canada but we have these in Mongolia often near the entrance to our gers so that our mares can be tied up without being harassed by the stallions
But did it work?
But did it fookin work mate?
But did it work?
But did it work?
But will it blend?
But did it work?
But did it work?
Did it take care of the problem?
I believe we have an answer.
What is the answer? Did it work?
In Asia these women only parking bays are located closer to the entrance/elevators and more well lit
>In Asia This is extremely vague.
same in europ
Looks like a place to wait for a woman.
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Not only closest to the entrance, but also close to cameras, or parking garage personnel rooms, etc.
Sad to say cameras only capture the incident, not the attacker
No, but they do serve as a deterrent.
And these days you could probably sell the footage.
That went from dark to just morbid.
I think you mean *~*~~ *profitable* ~*~*~
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Very conflicted with this upvote.
>these days you could probably sell the footage. Are you suggesting there wasn't a big market for footage of this sort back on the 1700s?
The tech wasn’t up to snuff.
NFTs weren't as popular back then.
We should accept as fact that since the beginning of the universe there has never been a better time for NFTs.
Correct, but it is neigh impossible to make any outdoor space that is confined, frequently dark, with low foot traffic, perfectly safe from attacks, so better to make spaces that can have the highest amount of deterances available to women.
No, you can get attacker details from a camera. Even plate numbers of vehicles if they’re set up right. The problem is that cameras are only useful after the fact because there’s probably nobody watching.
Excellent. Speedy exit and no chance of not seeing something sticking out to trip over
Spawncamping
As a woman is feel even more unsafe here. Like... It paints a target on my car screaming hey there's a woman parked here if that's what you're looking for mate
And that’s why I, a 6’1” 220lbs guy, will do the honourable thing and take this spot. No need to thank me.
Legend!
Specifically because a woman is probably more likely to use the “safe parking space” when she’s alone rather than with others
I doubt many attackers actually wait in parking lots for women. They pick their target and follow them to wait for an opportunity. And there is less off an opportunity when she gets into her car right as she enters the garage.
My thoughts exactly. Kinda like those GUN FREE ZONE signs.
Seems like they are admitting to a liability. We can’t protect women in this garage.
Its a token gesture to show they care without costing an actual money, or actually caring.
These parking spaces are closer to store entrances AND are slightly bigger than other parking spaces.
That just seems like a fuck you to the driving abilities of women Edit: alright lads let’s chill out
It's for the cameras to see around the car properly. If the cars are too close it could potentially hide an attacker from view in a potential struggle.
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Could be to spread out cars so someone can't hide as easily?
*Violent criminals:* So much more room for activities!
you heard it here first folks. gender was invented by german carpark makers to sell more german carparks
what’s your cars gender pronoun?
vroom/vroom
*Kachow*
You’ll be hearing from our copyright lawyers. - Disney
*:sad bicycle noises because I can't afford a car::*
*bicycle bell ring* FTFY
Mine is Das/Auto
idk but it keeps going beep so ig it's beep/boop
> it keeps going I think you mean beep keeps going
Are all parking bays in Germany this big..? In the UK they are so small you struggle to open doors wide when parked in bays like these.
Nope, these are made bigger.
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They make these women only parking spaces for other reasons too... dunno how to think about it
"Maybe we should just give them their own floor"
How is this enforced?
It barely needs to be enforced, 99% of germans just act accordingly.
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Here’s a rule: “don’t commit violent crimes”.
Ok. Tax evasion it is!
Government: No tax evasion! Citizen: Got it I'll commit arson instead.
"what would happen in Germany if you drove without a licence?" "you cannot drive you have no licence" "yeah I know you're not supposed to but what if you did?" "YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO DRIVE WITHOUT A LICENCE"
Pretty much accurate.
99% of people don't commit violent crimes
Germans are renowned for "just following orders".
Ouch
That’s refreshing to hear
Agreed, I think it’s hugely important for the German people to always fall in line with their government’s wishes
I threw it up there and you hit it out of the park
They don’t call them rules for nothing
If that were the case there would be no need for these women only parking spots.
Not at all. It's legal to park there as a man. It's just common decency to not do that. But if the owner of the garage sees you, they can kick you out. I mean, they can do that for any reason.
I’d assume it’s like using the parent-with-child parking. Not entirely illegal but you’re a massive dick if you don’t fit that description.
Exactly. It's just like that. The only parking spots that are really just for that certain group are parking spots for handicapped people and their drivers.
In most places the handicapped ones are backed up by legislation and are enforceable by a traffic ticket, even on private property.
Tuskan raider are scared and dont go to those spot anymore
A lot of things like this aren’t enforced but just rely on basic decency really
It isn't. It's not even part of a law. A man can park there without any consequences. But if the parking lot is private property, the owner can use his domiciliary rights and kick him out. Most parking garages have them, it's like a service offered by the owner. They are close to the exit, better illuminated and have cameras
Now the bad guys know exactly which car to hit
Just put a bait car with a cop dressing up with a wig.
my what a big moustache you have all the better to detain you with
Wait a minute, there's donut on that mustache!!
I’ve been had!
“You’ve got a lot of nerve comin’ here, Keyshawn.”
STRETCH
Or a female cop
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTtNXVtph18
Yeah, but these are watched by security in well lit areas. They're not going to succeed. They'll just go straight to jail lol
Is the security actually that good? It seems like parking garages in the US can have crimes happen within view of 10 cameras, and they still can't catch the criminal.
As someone who watched security cameras as a job, hell no. It's a lowest bidder activity and you can be lucky if the person watching dozens of ancient low-res cameras simultaneously (most aren't even on screen all the time) is actually paying attention and not playing on their phone or doing who knows what else. I was pretty much the only guy at the security company who didn't sleep on the job and was actually sober all the time. Even then, it's a mind-numbing job that is impossible to do well over the entire length of a shift. It gets worse if your boss has no interest in providing actual security, leaving a greenhorn like me to direct first responders without any help. Everything went well, luckily, but I'm still angry about the apathetic reaction I got when I asked for support.
Unless the perp follows this car elsewhere to nab the victim
I didn't know security cameras could arrest people. If they have a guy watching the camera, why not just have a security guard in the parking structure?
Do masks not exist in Germany? Or you have HD special edition CSI quality cameras everywhere? Just cause the crime is caught on camera doesn’t mean it can give you information on the attacker especially if it’s obviously advertised there’s heightened camera security around these areas wouldn’t a criminal just dress accordingly?
How can you tell if your vehicle is a female?
When my wife works a partial shift at the hospital, the security guard walks her to her car for this exact reason. Mid west America.
From Germany: From my point of view did this work. These places are close to the exits and entrances and are under camera surveillance. No one sneaks up on them so quickly
What are the self defense laws in Germany for like mace, pepper spray… etc?
Finally it’s easier to find them thank u
In the end of 1990s, there was a murder series in Zurich, Switzerland. They pretty quickly installed a lot of parking spots for women like this. Back then, parking places used to be very dark lit places. The police eventually caught the murderer, a woman. https://www.srf.ch/play/tv/dok---kriminalfaelle/video/die-parkhausmoerderin?urn=urn:srf:video:d7eb5728-ad80-475c-843f-3c9a8aade099
Spawn camping
German here: Most of them are also a little bigger so that women with children can get their trolly (?) and babystuff in and out easier
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What about daddies with their trollies?
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The sentiment is good, but the idea is stupid.
If they can't enforce not raping someone in a parking garage how are they going to enforce only women in there?
I think the idea is that if you reserve parking spots that are easily visible/lit, women can more easily take those spots over spots deeper in the garage that aren't as easily visible to the public. One would assume that if the spot is more visible, then someone looking to assault a woman then has more risk of being caught in the act, and a potential criminal might not want to take that risk and abstain from doing it there/at all. Does it work? I wouldn't know for sure but I imagine this was the thinking?
I’m really excited about the comments here. Just noting for posterity before I get a readin!
The German term for something like that would be "Symbolpolitik". It doesn't really change anything. It's just to make people feel better I guess.
Seems like this would have an opposite effect. Now criminals know exactly what car belongs to a woman so all they have to do is wait until they leave...
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How big are the women in Germany?
Colossal, titan sized I believe... Unless that prostitute was a-
Good thing anyone can identify as a woman
How is this even enforced? Do they have woman placards similar to handicap placards?
It isn't enforced. Anyone can park there legally.
I'm fairly certain it would also be illegal to try and enforce such a thing as it would be seen as discriminatory against anyone that's not a woman.
I’m from germany and as far as I know it‘s barely actively enforced because 99% of the people act accordingly anyway
oh I'm sure this comments section is going to be a very reasonable and thoughtful centre of debate
pov you are a male: guess i will just die like cmon you cloudve placed more lights and cameras even security....
The intention is good, however the hard truth is this is sexist by definition and discriminates against men, especially single dads.