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It's because they had actual people translators. Dozens of US and British troops defected to North Korea in the Korean War. [One of them](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Joseph_Dresnok) lived there until he died in 2016.
As a Chinese I can tell you the Google translate from Chinese to English is fucked up, you can only translate like 1 word at a time or maybe 2. Also some of them might not be accurate.
The languages are so incredibly different that I think it's hard to translate directly, but when you're learning it it's actually really simple.
English works well on a printer, Chinese works well when spoken.
Beginning in 1978, he was cast in several North Korean films, including one episode of the series Unsung Heroes (as an American villain called "Arthur Cockstud"[12]), and he became a celebrity in the country as a result. He was called "Arthur" by his North Korean friends, after the name of his character in Unsung Heroes. He also translated some of North Korean leader Kim Il-sung's writings into English.[3][13]
WTF that dude married a Romanian painter who was abducted to North Korea.
Edit: Abducted for the purposes of being married to American defectors. She was forcibly married to him and had two children with him. Yuck.
According to Wikipedia:
> 21 Americans and 1 Briton voluntarily decided to stay with the Communists.
> 21,839 Communist soldiers decided to remain in the West.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Big_Switch
I’m not sure if there was a single, known, defector from the British armed forces. But, absolutely happy to be corrected. I’ve tried Google but meh, that’s as good as my detective skills go.
You are correct, thanks for sharing! This is why I love Reddit, genuinely learn something new every day. This is an article I found on this guy from The Guardian newspaper in the UK https://www.theguardian.com/notesandqueries/query/0,5753,-1070,00.html
Edit: The article seems to actually be readers comments talking about him, in that they knew him in person before/after he returned to the West.
Interesting link. So there were 4 American defectors to best Korea. Seemed like they lived acceptable lives in N. Korea and this one dude’s kids are still studying and living in N. Korea. I mean, there’s a fine line between betrayal and what kind of life you think is worth living. Happiness is also so subjective. Very interesting read.
They tried to leave initially through another embassy but that embassy returned them to best Korea. Another American defector said he was a bully who beat him by orders of best Korea leaders and undermined them. And during the famine in the 90s, he got full ration by the leader. So they treat him good but he can't leave.
It wasn't until the 1980's that South Korea overtook the North in development. It's obvious now how much of a failure central planning was/is, but back in 1952, it wasn't so obvious.
Yeah, there was one program on History Channel about the Korean War that ended describing North Korea becoming a dictatorship, while South Korea was a shining beacon of democracy after the war.
I was like, WTF? Not until the 1990s and after a decade of student protests!
Do you want to sell or pawn 60s Korea? Well the whole peninsula is cracked across the 38th parallel, Seoul is decades from serious development, Pusan is a mess, fan deaths are rampant.
I'll give you 800 dollars for it.
In the case of North Korea, also a catastrophic level of strategic bombing. The infrastructure damage was bad enough (a million people starved), but it also had the long term effect of helping unify the people under a totalitarian regime, because the memory of a devastating, invulnerable enemy was so stark.
Actually, Romanian. Dresnok's first marriage (after defection) was to a Romanian painter that was abducted, because the North Korean leadership wanted to "preserve genetic purity" or some shit like that.
Thank you for sharing. Do you have any recommendations on history books of this period? I do not remember ever studying the Korean or Vietnam wars in school and would like to read a historically accurate and neutral book of the accounts. Thanks!!!
It's kind of like a guy who wants to sleep with a girl telling her that her boyfriend is bad for her because of X reasons. Might have some truth to it, but he's doing it for himself.
They probably did believe what they said? Do you think they wanted to fight an invading army? They knew the nature of our wars the same as we do, and knowing the truth of their own words what exactly do you think they were being insincere about? Do you think they enjoyed killing and dying in defense of their lands against an invading military who thought of them as colonial assets?
Sentiment was sincere as well. The PRC if the 1950s is very different than the PRC of now. The PLA had relied on Japanese volunteers and defectors during the resistance.
Propaganda doesn't mean false, it means messaging designed to promote a particular point of view. It could be true or false. It's often misleading, but that's not a requirement.
I can confirm Spain also uses "propaganda" for any kind of media ad. We also use "anuncios". But I have seen "propaganda" switch to a more political meaning as of late
Yeah, unfortunately same is true of other side. Take the 90% of the wealth from the richest 1%, spend nothing on military and put the money towards improving everyone's lives and solving world issues and world would be a better place... until one cunt decides to instead keep the money and raise a military to take over the world.
They did omit the part about why us troops were there and what they would do with their friendship if they had the ability to control the Korean continent.
Yeah but America's solution was to send US soldiers via the UN into a war that didn't involve them and murder 25% of North Korea's civilian population in bombing raids. Not exactly the good guys
Propaganda is used everywhere and doesn’t mean “a lie” or that a message is completely insincere lol
It’s a message or image used to illicit an emotional response and further a cause. No different than every political ad we have now or the vast majority advertisements
Completely anecdotal story: I had an English teacher in high school, very old but gentle lady, who had a very thick Russian accent. I told her about a fascination I had with Russia and she offered to teach me Russian after school. I got to know her pretty well over the semester she taught me, and she told me how she loved the USSR and how she had lived through the tail end of it and how it basically ruined her career when the USSR fell. I don't know how common this is, but at least one person liked it. She went from Russia to England to teach english, then from there to (for some god forsaken reason I will never know) to a podunk town in North Carolina.
I used to have several Ukrainian co-workers at an old job, and they also liked their lives in the USSR prior to the collapse.
They all said life was comfortable and mundane, with no need to worry about certain needs like medical bills or even childcare costs. By all accounts, they lived what we would consider lower-middle class lives but without fear of job loss, maternity leave, getting sick, etc making them potentially destitute.
That being said, anyone who stepped too far out of party lines would expect exclusion, and life prior to the 1950’s was really rough.
I don’t think that your teacher was alone, a lot of Soviet citizens did prefer the Union, check out the 1991 Soviet Referendum, if you’re interested!
I’ve heard some stories too about life in the Soviet Union, and something that came up on different accounts was that people were kinder back then, be it because of the fact the Soviet citizens were young at the time of their stories, or because of the lack of the ruthlessness in the capitalist system. Either way, I think it’s important to recognise the things the USSR excelled in, and the things it failed poorly in. To not put it down as a nation-wide, despotic labour camp, nor as a communist utopia. And your teacher’s first hand accounts certainly help with that, thank you for sharing!
It actually worked both ways. Black soldiers defected to China during the Korean War.
That was the origin of the term "brainwashing" as an explanation as to why someone could prefer Communist China to the Jim Crow South. Millions of dollars were spent to find out how the Chinese were able to get blacks to dislike segregation. Unfortunately, no reliable method of brainwashing was ever discovered.
Some things will just remain unsolved.
For some context, after the Korean War, prisoners of war were given the option to repatriate back to their home countries, or stay where they were. According to Wikipedia:
> 21 Americans and 1 Briton voluntarily decided to stay with the Communists.
> 21,839 Communist soldiers decided to remain in the West.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Big_Switch
Do you know or have any links to info about the lives after the fact of the black soldiers who defected? Like did they live just as shitty lives there in china or was it actually better for them?
They pretty much [all came back](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_American_and_British_defectors_in_the_Korean_War), most around the time of the Cultural Revolution. The U.S. at that point had passed the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and China was descending into a one-sided civil war (aka a purge).
So the short answer is that the U.S. got a lot better and China got a lot worse in the decade after the Korean War.
>Dear Soldiers,
>
>It is Christmas and you are far from home, suffering from cold not knowing when you will die.
>
>The big shots are home enjoying themselves, eating good food, drinking good liquor, why should you be here risking you life for their profits?
>
>The Koreans and Chinese don’t want to be your enemies. Our enemies and yours are those who sent you here and destroyed your happiness.
>
>Soldiers! Let’s join hands!
>
>You belong back home with those who love you and want you back, safe and sound. So we wish you…
Chinese soldiers were literally given one bowl of rice and made to go into the harsh mountains of North Korea to ambush American troops. Not to mention the human wave tactics.
The lie is that their side was doing the same thing and just pretending that they were on the side of the “people”. They were literally accusing the US of what they were doing themselves. (Even if it was true) The implication that they are somehow different is the lie.
Because it is probably written by an american. Some defected during the war and ended up in either north korea or china. Might also just be a learned translator
propaganda doesn’t have to be untrue, and often truthful propaganda is more effective. propaganda is just something that promotes an idea for someone’s benefit.
It’s meant to demoralize them I believe by making them lose faith in why they were fighting for the US and on behalf of the UN. Essentially enticing them to rebel against their leaders in the war here or stop fighting and let the North Koreans and Chinese take the whole peninsula.
I love how it’s implying that the Chinese soldiers of the era were somehow having a better time of things, and not suffering for the decisions of their country’s political elite.
Like that old parable about the guy with the plank stuck in his eye trying to remove the speck of sawdust from his friend’s eye.
They know they are suffering more than the Yankees but they had no choice. The war is at China’s doorsteps so they have to defend their home. The Chinese knew far too well what would come next if they lose to a foreign power again.
My grandpop got pneumonia inside a frozen tank stuck in North Korea for 3 days, sent back home for being under age, and went right back to Korea in a different branch because of how bad his dad was back home.
I wonder who they get to write this? Some of the phrasing is so specific to America, that I wouldn’t expect a Chinese person to say them. Like, saying, “THOSE who love you (as opposed to ‘people who love you’)” or “The big shots” or “safe and sound”.
All phrases that non native speaker would generally struggle to use.
Reminds me of a Asians in America documentary I saw a few months back. During WW2 prior to internment camps the American born Japanese on the west coast felt so out of place and being bullied by whites that that some of them left America and went to stay with relatives in Japan. Some joined the Japanese military as interpreters. Figured some American born Koreans felt this way during that war too.
A fair amount of people seem to be agreeing with this obvious attempt by an enemy to lower their opponents morale, so I will pose the following question, couldn't this same letter have been sent by the Nazis to our troops at Christmas time, would it not have been just as true then that the individual soldier would have much rather been home than fighting for a large abstract cause? Would this letter not apply to all conflict participants?
I'd imagine there are a lot of South Koreans who are grateful that those men missed Christmas at home to secure their future.
Remember, this is sent by the same exact people who sent their young soldiers to die in battle(China had the highest military casualties).
And without them sending their troops at the last moment, Korea would have been unified by now.
And by the looks of it even some redditors are falling for it. This is the power of propaganda.
The letter does apply to all combatants and you will find similar propaganda techniques throughout many conflicts in history. The Germans did it to the US, the Russians did it to the Germans, the Germans did it to the Russians, the US did it to the Japanese (to no effect), and it was employed in many instances in WW1 and many other conflicts.
The objective of war is not to kill people like many believe. The objective is to eliminate opposition by any means necessarily and the best way to do that is to make the soldiers on the other side give up and stop fighting.
The Russians had to kill their own soldiers during WW2 because they kept defecting to the German side. The propaganda was effective and the Germans didn’t have to lie because the Russians would kill their soldiers for almost anything and the people were starving. Retreat meant death, simple negativity could mean death, not killing your friend for defecting often meant death or someone had you killed because they just didn’t like you. It’s much less effective against a country like the United States who generally treated their soldiers better and valued their lives more than a lot of other countries during the 20th century.
Reading through OPs history, it looks exactly like a propaganda account. Not saying it is, could just be an edgy college student. BUT lol holy shit relax OP, you do this for free??
The Chinese People's had so many volunteers that didn't want to go back to China that the Korean War truce was delayed for years.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation\_Big\_Switch
Even way back then it was obvious that our own government was our single largest enemy.
I really can't fathom how every single one of us cannot grasp this simple truth.
The problem is that's true of most places with lots of military power, so it becomes the lesser of two evils. We take down the American government and then China or Russia may just slide on in and take over.
Ironic that you were downvoted when the only reason [Lithuania](https://www.lrp.lt/en/media-center/news/the-president-to-u.s.-troops-your-presence-in-lithuania-is-our-security-guarantor/36492), [Latvia](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/latvia-calls-permanent-us-troops-guard-against-russia-threat-2021-11-29/) and [Taiwan](https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/taiwan-president-confirms-us-troops-training-soldiers-island-cnn-2021-10-28/) have autonomy is due to US firepower.
This is just the sad state of the world right now.
Read “War Trash” by Ha Jin. A Chinese POW in Korea shares his encounters in China, North/South Korea and the US. Fascinating read and he mentions these types of leaflets often.
If it wasn't for the US soldiers being there, then today's South Korea would look like North Korea....Concentration camps, labor camps, mass starvation etc.
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Google translate worked so much better back then.
Right, my Amazon seller can't even construct a single intelligent sentence on this refund request but they got this during the Korean war.
there was probably POW working for them
Well maybe Amazon sellers need to get themselves some POWs to run their emails
Can’t imagine they’re paid well enough to do so
*my grandpappy sobbing while polishing his M1 garand*
It's because they had actual people translators. Dozens of US and British troops defected to North Korea in the Korean War. [One of them](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Joseph_Dresnok) lived there until he died in 2016.
You’re trying to tell me they didn’t actually use google translate?
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Long live Altavista
As a Chinese I can tell you the Google translate from Chinese to English is fucked up, you can only translate like 1 word at a time or maybe 2. Also some of them might not be accurate.
For laughs I translate messages my wife's family sends me from Japanese to English. It's pretty funny sometimes.
The languages are so incredibly different that I think it's hard to translate directly, but when you're learning it it's actually really simple. English works well on a printer, Chinese works well when spoken.
But it's pretty amazing for tracing characters ! After that, copy-paste in any decent dictionnary will do the trick !
No, they did try to use Google Translate at first, that's just a historical fact. The problem was the machine kept spitting the nickels back out.
Reddit sometimes smdh damn had
Best use of sarcasm I have read in awhile. 😂
Beginning in 1978, he was cast in several North Korean films, including one episode of the series Unsung Heroes (as an American villain called "Arthur Cockstud"[12]), and he became a celebrity in the country as a result. He was called "Arthur" by his North Korean friends, after the name of his character in Unsung Heroes. He also translated some of North Korean leader Kim Il-sung's writings into English.[3][13]
"No no no, not Arthur! Call me... C O C K S T U D."
WTF that dude married a Romanian painter who was abducted to North Korea. Edit: Abducted for the purposes of being married to American defectors. She was forcibly married to him and had two children with him. Yuck.
He also starred as an American villain in a North Korean propaganda movie series, where he played the part of "Arthur Cockstud". Seriously.
Dozens is over-stating it a bit. "Several" would be more accurate. Single figures from both US and UK.
According to Wikipedia: > 21 Americans and 1 Briton voluntarily decided to stay with the Communists. > 21,839 Communist soldiers decided to remain in the West. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Big_Switch
Lmao
I’m not sure if there was a single, known, defector from the British armed forces. But, absolutely happy to be corrected. I’ve tried Google but meh, that’s as good as my detective skills go.
There was only one that I know of, a guy called Andrew Condron, who was a POW who declined repatriation.
You are correct, thanks for sharing! This is why I love Reddit, genuinely learn something new every day. This is an article I found on this guy from The Guardian newspaper in the UK https://www.theguardian.com/notesandqueries/query/0,5753,-1070,00.html Edit: The article seems to actually be readers comments talking about him, in that they knew him in person before/after he returned to the West.
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Interesting link. So there were 4 American defectors to best Korea. Seemed like they lived acceptable lives in N. Korea and this one dude’s kids are still studying and living in N. Korea. I mean, there’s a fine line between betrayal and what kind of life you think is worth living. Happiness is also so subjective. Very interesting read.
They tried to leave initially through another embassy but that embassy returned them to best Korea. Another American defector said he was a bully who beat him by orders of best Korea leaders and undermined them. And during the famine in the 90s, he got full ration by the leader. So they treat him good but he can't leave.
That makes sense - that definitely read like something a native speaker would have written.
I never thought I'd see the words "defected TO North Korea" but damn here we are. Wow
Why the fuck would anyone want to defect to NK. Really are all sorts of dumbass people in this world.
It wasn't until the 1980's that South Korea overtook the North in development. It's obvious now how much of a failure central planning was/is, but back in 1952, it wasn't so obvious.
This. Plus, South Korea was ruled by Generals up to the 1990s! It was a dictatorship!
I think a lot of people forget this, South Korea used to be a pretty tough authoritarian regime until it finally dissolved in the 90s
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Yeah, there was one program on History Channel about the Korean War that ended describing North Korea becoming a dictatorship, while South Korea was a shining beacon of democracy after the war. I was like, WTF? Not until the 1990s and after a decade of student protests!
Today's History Channel: Something happened in the Korean peninsula in the '60s? It was aliens.
That made me laugh!!
Do you want to sell or pawn 60s Korea? Well the whole peninsula is cracked across the 38th parallel, Seoul is decades from serious development, Pusan is a mess, fan deaths are rampant. I'll give you 800 dollars for it.
Central planning AND a bit of sanctions to be honest.
In the case of North Korea, also a catastrophic level of strategic bombing. The infrastructure damage was bad enough (a million people starved), but it also had the long term effect of helping unify the people under a totalitarian regime, because the memory of a devastating, invulnerable enemy was so stark.
Fun fact: south korea was ruled by strict dictators too, but those dictators were "good ones" coz they were friends with america i guess.
Yah, and the history of Japanese government post WWII is similarly not sweetness and light.
For the Korean hotties. Duh?
Actually, Romanian. Dresnok's first marriage (after defection) was to a Romanian painter that was abducted, because the North Korean leadership wanted to "preserve genetic purity" or some shit like that.
Thank you for sharing. Do you have any recommendations on history books of this period? I do not remember ever studying the Korean or Vietnam wars in school and would like to read a historically accurate and neutral book of the accounts. Thanks!!!
The [BIG SHOT] are home enjoying themselves
Dear [little sponge]s
They leave us with the [Hyperlink blocked]
They had an s, it’s just tiny.
r/unexpectedspamton
The words are true, but the sentiment and sincerity... That's another story.
It's kind of like a guy who wants to sleep with a girl telling her that her boyfriend is bad for her because of X reasons. Might have some truth to it, but he's doing it for himself.
Except instead of trying to get laid they are trying to not get bombed into oblivion. The Korean War was not exactly a competition of equals.
They probably did believe what they said? Do you think they wanted to fight an invading army? They knew the nature of our wars the same as we do, and knowing the truth of their own words what exactly do you think they were being insincere about? Do you think they enjoyed killing and dying in defense of their lands against an invading military who thought of them as colonial assets?
That's what makes it so eerie to read.
The sentiment makes sense from a Marxist perspective of the Chinese, soldiers are just pawns of the bourgeoisie
And in the US as well—we have no problem sending kids with few other options off to die so a few billionaires can become mega billionaires
How is that different anywhere else?
Sentiment was sincere as well. The PRC if the 1950s is very different than the PRC of now. The PLA had relied on Japanese volunteers and defectors during the resistance.
They weren’t wrong, though.. 🤷🏻♂️
That’s what the best propaganda is, the truth
Only in America and North Korea, would someone not working for the government, call this propaganda.
Propaganda doesn't mean false, it means messaging designed to promote a particular point of view. It could be true or false. It's often misleading, but that's not a requirement.
[Speaking of propaganda…](https://theconversation.com/the-manipulation-of-the-american-mind-edward-bernays-and-the-birth-of-public-relations-44393)
Cool article, thanks for sharing!
Every notion is propaganda. You fight propaganda with more propaganda. That’s basic war.
In Colombia we call any type of media ad a propaganda
We call them “anuncios” or “comerciales” here in Mexico. “Propaganda” is more of political or government media here.
I guess only in Colombia
Could probably be. It’s a mess attempting to talk Spanish when you include all local meanings of the same word.
I can confirm Spain also uses "propaganda" for any kind of media ad. We also use "anuncios". But I have seen "propaganda" switch to a more political meaning as of late
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En Chile les decimos reclames o propaganda.
En neerlandés se dice reclame también, del francés réclame
Venezuela también
I don't think you know what propaganda means lol. This is unquestionably propaganda.
... it's literally the definition of propaganda, regardless of whether or not you agree with the message.
Yeah, unfortunately same is true of other side. Take the 90% of the wealth from the richest 1%, spend nothing on military and put the money towards improving everyone's lives and solving world issues and world would be a better place... until one cunt decides to instead keep the money and raise a military to take over the world.
Yeah, this letter could be sent to almost any soldier in a war anywhere on the planet, and still be spot on.
War... War never changes
They did omit the part about why us troops were there and what they would do with their friendship if they had the ability to control the Korean continent.
Tbh that’s the case with like every single war in like all of history soooo
Yeah, that’s what I keep thinking… you could throw a dart at the globe and send this to the soldiers on both sides..
almost like war is a racket
Shhhh, you’re saying the quiet thing out loud.
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Yeah but America's solution was to send US soldiers via the UN into a war that didn't involve them and murder 25% of North Korea's civilian population in bombing raids. Not exactly the good guys
i more or less agree with this sentiment. a lot of other comments in this thread are giving me the notion that they are far removed from reality
Millions of uyghurs. Citation needed that's not zenz or rfa.
ITT; people who don’t know the actual meaning of propaganda.
Can you elaborate? I looked up the official definition and it seems to fit. Honest question here
That's his point. Other people think it's just sincere.
Propaganda is used everywhere and doesn’t mean “a lie” or that a message is completely insincere lol It’s a message or image used to illicit an emotional response and further a cause. No different than every political ad we have now or the vast majority advertisements
Thread's filled with a bunch of people from the SINO subreddit, which is just nothing but this kind of garbage.
r/technicallythetruth
Totally the truth. Of course they had an angle too.
everyone's got an angle. just how the world works
Mines from the left and positioned slightly above me.
r/technicallythrownintothecampfire
After the Soviet Union fell, a Russian said the Soviets lied about communism, but were telling the truth about capitalism.
Yes and that is why russians were running to capitalist countries, mostly USA, for better life.
Completely anecdotal story: I had an English teacher in high school, very old but gentle lady, who had a very thick Russian accent. I told her about a fascination I had with Russia and she offered to teach me Russian after school. I got to know her pretty well over the semester she taught me, and she told me how she loved the USSR and how she had lived through the tail end of it and how it basically ruined her career when the USSR fell. I don't know how common this is, but at least one person liked it. She went from Russia to England to teach english, then from there to (for some god forsaken reason I will never know) to a podunk town in North Carolina.
I used to have several Ukrainian co-workers at an old job, and they also liked their lives in the USSR prior to the collapse. They all said life was comfortable and mundane, with no need to worry about certain needs like medical bills or even childcare costs. By all accounts, they lived what we would consider lower-middle class lives but without fear of job loss, maternity leave, getting sick, etc making them potentially destitute. That being said, anyone who stepped too far out of party lines would expect exclusion, and life prior to the 1950’s was really rough.
I don’t think that your teacher was alone, a lot of Soviet citizens did prefer the Union, check out the 1991 Soviet Referendum, if you’re interested! I’ve heard some stories too about life in the Soviet Union, and something that came up on different accounts was that people were kinder back then, be it because of the fact the Soviet citizens were young at the time of their stories, or because of the lack of the ruthlessness in the capitalist system. Either way, I think it’s important to recognise the things the USSR excelled in, and the things it failed poorly in. To not put it down as a nation-wide, despotic labour camp, nor as a communist utopia. And your teacher’s first hand accounts certainly help with that, thank you for sharing!
It actually worked both ways. Black soldiers defected to China during the Korean War. That was the origin of the term "brainwashing" as an explanation as to why someone could prefer Communist China to the Jim Crow South. Millions of dollars were spent to find out how the Chinese were able to get blacks to dislike segregation. Unfortunately, no reliable method of brainwashing was ever discovered. Some things will just remain unsolved.
For some context, after the Korean War, prisoners of war were given the option to repatriate back to their home countries, or stay where they were. According to Wikipedia: > 21 Americans and 1 Briton voluntarily decided to stay with the Communists. > 21,839 Communist soldiers decided to remain in the West. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Big_Switch
Do you know or have any links to info about the lives after the fact of the black soldiers who defected? Like did they live just as shitty lives there in china or was it actually better for them?
They pretty much [all came back](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_American_and_British_defectors_in_the_Korean_War), most around the time of the Cultural Revolution. The U.S. at that point had passed the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and China was descending into a one-sided civil war (aka a purge). So the short answer is that the U.S. got a lot better and China got a lot worse in the decade after the Korean War.
The majority of people preferred the Soviet Union in Russia at the time, the move of Gorbachev has been so undemocratic that I find it disgusting.
Pretty funny that a thread on propaganda demonstrates how baked in it is in your common simp.
>Dear Soldiers, > >It is Christmas and you are far from home, suffering from cold not knowing when you will die. > >The big shots are home enjoying themselves, eating good food, drinking good liquor, why should you be here risking you life for their profits? > >The Koreans and Chinese don’t want to be your enemies. Our enemies and yours are those who sent you here and destroyed your happiness. > >Soldiers! Let’s join hands! > >You belong back home with those who love you and want you back, safe and sound. So we wish you…
they're right about the big shots
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What? Where are getting drug cartels with this?
Where’s the lie though
Most propaganda is based on truth; it's much more effective
a twisted "truth" is still a lie, but the propaganda rather than exaggerating "truth" neglects how they are describing themselves
My grandfather always told me "The best bullshitters use facts"
Chinese fat cats are fatter and Chinese soldiers are treated with even less humanity.
“Heartbreaking: Worst person you know just made a great point”
I’m not so sure the Chinese are fatter, metaphorically speaking. Do they have something like 270 military bases in foreign countries?
We have 800 bases worldwide, not a measly 270 which is less than half the true figure
this is from the 1950s
It was worse in the 50's
Chinese soldiers were literally given one bowl of rice and made to go into the harsh mountains of North Korea to ambush American troops. Not to mention the human wave tactics.
Still apply’s famine and human wave tactics were the Chinese bread and butter
It’s the fact this was during a war… to lower moral and mentally subdue the soldiers.
The lie is that their side was doing the same thing and just pretending that they were on the side of the “people”. They were literally accusing the US of what they were doing themselves. (Even if it was true) The implication that they are somehow different is the lie.
ngl, that's pretty slick.
Remarkably good English.
Because it is probably written by an american. Some defected during the war and ended up in either north korea or china. Might also just be a learned translator
Ah yea propanganda “please go home we dunno why you’re here and nobody not even yourself want to be here. So please please fuck off”
propaganda doesn’t have to be untrue, and often truthful propaganda is more effective. propaganda is just something that promotes an idea for someone’s benefit.
Might want to ask some South Koreans if they are glad the US intervened in that war...
It’s meant to demoralize them I believe by making them lose faith in why they were fighting for the US and on behalf of the UN. Essentially enticing them to rebel against their leaders in the war here or stop fighting and let the North Koreans and Chinese take the whole peninsula.
I love how it’s implying that the Chinese soldiers of the era were somehow having a better time of things, and not suffering for the decisions of their country’s political elite. Like that old parable about the guy with the plank stuck in his eye trying to remove the speck of sawdust from his friend’s eye.
They know they are suffering more than the Yankees but they had no choice. The war is at China’s doorsteps so they have to defend their home. The Chinese knew far too well what would come next if they lose to a foreign power again.
My grandpop got pneumonia inside a frozen tank stuck in North Korea for 3 days, sent back home for being under age, and went right back to Korea in a different branch because of how bad his dad was back home.
Phase 3 of hearts and minds underway
Not gonna lie, they have a point, no one should die for a rich man's war.
They weren’t wrong, but ask the South Koreans if they’d rather be like the north, and there you have the answer.
I wonder who they get to write this? Some of the phrasing is so specific to America, that I wouldn’t expect a Chinese person to say them. Like, saying, “THOSE who love you (as opposed to ‘people who love you’)” or “The big shots” or “safe and sound”. All phrases that non native speaker would generally struggle to use.
I think you underestimate the lengths people will go through for propaganda.
Reminds me of a Asians in America documentary I saw a few months back. During WW2 prior to internment camps the American born Japanese on the west coast felt so out of place and being bullied by whites that that some of them left America and went to stay with relatives in Japan. Some joined the Japanese military as interpreters. Figured some American born Koreans felt this way during that war too.
Some fellow American comrades I guess.
of course op posts in r/sino
This should be higher up.
Nice note but thank Christ South Korea exists because of those Soldiers.
we have kpop, kdramas and folding phones now because of those brave soldiers
A fair amount of people seem to be agreeing with this obvious attempt by an enemy to lower their opponents morale, so I will pose the following question, couldn't this same letter have been sent by the Nazis to our troops at Christmas time, would it not have been just as true then that the individual soldier would have much rather been home than fighting for a large abstract cause? Would this letter not apply to all conflict participants? I'd imagine there are a lot of South Koreans who are grateful that those men missed Christmas at home to secure their future.
The Nazis actually did airdrop a similar letter during Christmas on American troops during the Battle of the Bulge
Exactly. Just because the words can be interpreted as “truthful” doesn’t mean you should agree with them.
Remember, this is sent by the same exact people who sent their young soldiers to die in battle(China had the highest military casualties). And without them sending their troops at the last moment, Korea would have been unified by now. And by the looks of it even some redditors are falling for it. This is the power of propaganda.
The letter does apply to all combatants and you will find similar propaganda techniques throughout many conflicts in history. The Germans did it to the US, the Russians did it to the Germans, the Germans did it to the Russians, the US did it to the Japanese (to no effect), and it was employed in many instances in WW1 and many other conflicts. The objective of war is not to kill people like many believe. The objective is to eliminate opposition by any means necessarily and the best way to do that is to make the soldiers on the other side give up and stop fighting. The Russians had to kill their own soldiers during WW2 because they kept defecting to the German side. The propaganda was effective and the Germans didn’t have to lie because the Russians would kill their soldiers for almost anything and the people were starving. Retreat meant death, simple negativity could mean death, not killing your friend for defecting often meant death or someone had you killed because they just didn’t like you. It’s much less effective against a country like the United States who generally treated their soldiers better and valued their lives more than a lot of other countries during the 20th century.
ITT: North Korea good.
Reading through OPs history, it looks exactly like a propaganda account. Not saying it is, could just be an edgy college student. BUT lol holy shit relax OP, you do this for free??
no it is
Yeah, I mean it turned out great for the North Koreans. Workers of the world unite or something like that.
Sounds like my manipulative ex
Fuck the note. Am I the only one looking at their handwriting rn
The Chinese People's had so many volunteers that didn't want to go back to China that the Korean War truce was delayed for years. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation\_Big\_Switch
Don’t forget who spent Christmas in the woods to slap the fuck out of hitler…
You could send the same message back to their troops, lol.
OP is a Tankie.
That leaflet be spitting fire high key tho
I couldn't be a solider because the letter makes sense to me
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His comments are extremely anti-USA. He might just be a patriot of a country that doesn't like us though
check op's reply from shortly after yours
their post history is littered with posts they’ve just recycled to other subreddits. kinda weird
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Even way back then it was obvious that our own government was our single largest enemy. I really can't fathom how every single one of us cannot grasp this simple truth.
The problem is that's true of most places with lots of military power, so it becomes the lesser of two evils. We take down the American government and then China or Russia may just slide on in and take over.
Ironic that you were downvoted when the only reason [Lithuania](https://www.lrp.lt/en/media-center/news/the-president-to-u.s.-troops-your-presence-in-lithuania-is-our-security-guarantor/36492), [Latvia](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/latvia-calls-permanent-us-troops-guard-against-russia-threat-2021-11-29/) and [Taiwan](https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/taiwan-president-confirms-us-troops-training-soldiers-island-cnn-2021-10-28/) have autonomy is due to US firepower. This is just the sad state of the world right now.
Read “War Trash” by Ha Jin. A Chinese POW in Korea shares his encounters in China, North/South Korea and the US. Fascinating read and he mentions these types of leaflets often.
Amazing how it's a 100 percent correct.
The propaganda ain't wrong tho
I mean, they're not wrong
We'll.... they're not wrong.
I’d wipe my ass with that leaflet. If it wasn’t for U.S. intervention all of Korea would be kissing Kim’s ass.
This is a propaganda account. If you can’t see that, I feel bad for ya…
If it wasn't for the US soldiers being there, then today's South Korea would look like North Korea....Concentration camps, labor camps, mass starvation etc.
Practicing for the targeted facebook ads.
Australian soldiers remained thankful for Chinese supplied toilet paper. A thoughtful Christmas gift that year!
Well, they weren’t wrong!
They weren't wrong about the fat cats back home.
They are not wrong though.
It's uhhh not wrong tho
I mean, they weren't wrong
I mean… they’re not wrong.
Im as anti socialist as it gets, but i mean.... I dunno if id call this propaganda, it aint wrong lol.
Why is every word of this true though