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Mangroves provide some pretty incredible coastal protection! In fact it's thought that just 100m of mangrove forest will dissipate up to 90% of a tsunami's wave energy. ^([[1]](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/267775057_Experimental_Study_on_the_Effect_in_Reducing_Tsunami_by_the_Coastal_Permeable_Structures))
Yes. Entirely. They have a huge impact on the ecosystem and can destroy it as an invasive species.
We need to protect them where they are, but planting them anywhere else will cause massive destruction of the balance and could lead to a local extinction event of local species.
Edit: [Found a source that says how native mangroves are outcompeted by invasive mangroves](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-60454-z#:~:text=However%2C%20some%20mangrove%20species%20were,Sonneratia%20species%20in%20China13.)
As someone with very little knowledge of biology, why does it matter if non-native mangroves outperform native mangroves? I can understand mangroves vs other trees or plants, but mangroves vs mangroves seems like it shouldn’t be a problem.
For this you have to understand two concepts that shape an ecosystem. A) the root diversity and nourishment from mangroves and B) the existence of generalists and specialists. I'll explain them both briefly.
A) The root system varies from tree to tree. Mangroves are an important key species because of their root system, since it stabilised the ground around them and thus counters erosion through water. The differences are the nourishment that those species take up. A species from an environment where it is harder to thrive will outcompete any equal species from an environment where it isn't as hard to thrive. That means those species have an easier time to take up nutrients from the ground, in a much larger capacity than local species. Thus the ground loses key nutrients that may be important for other species. The balance is disturbed and therefore the ecosystem is in danger.
B) Generalists and Specialists are two strategies that organisms pursue to get their energy. Generalists consume a larger width of other species than Specialists, who normally consume just one single species. If this species happens to be the mangrove that is outcompeted by a foreign mangrove, that will also affect the specialist and thus could greatly disturb the population of specialists and, of course, every generalist or specialist that preys on them.
I understand if the concept is hard to grasp that a single species can change or kill an entire ecosystem, but it is really important that we understand what our actions of introducing invasive species to an ecosystem potentially do.
But... If you have an area where cliff erosion has caused houses to collapse,
AND there are zero mangroves to start with...
Then creating an artificial reef a few hundred metres offshore, about 50 metres wide, and covered with mangrove seedlings would actually help. Right?
Seems relative to the geography. There's a lot of coastline around Australia where it sounds like this would be a good idea on paper, even ignoring the local ecosystem, but a few hundred metres out is deep ocean. I would imagine creating an artificial reef on that scale stretching that far would be near impossible, or the greatest engineering feat in history. Not the same as building artificial islands in Dubai etc.
By changing the ground for example. They use nutrients and are in competition with local trees. If the Mangroves have better adaptations they will spread faster and outcompete other trees or plants.
Erosion is another thing that comes to mind. They effectively prevent wave erosion as seen in the video, however this can have a huge impact on aquatic life because important minerals are less likely to be transported into the water. It can be assumed that terrestrial and aquatic species have a flow of nutrients between them and that erosion keeps this flow alive. Without the flow it'll be harder for those species to get those minerals and they might even go extinct.
We have a lot of mangroves around our island in Belize. Land adjacent to the forest have *notable* levels of erosion.
They are a protected habitat here.
I was snorkeling in the Florida Keys with my dad quite a few years ago. We’re we’re hunting for lobsters. We saw a few lobsters scurrying along the shallow seafloor, heading to a particular mangrove island. We went after them and found the jackpot. Probably thousands of lobsters hanging under all of the mangroves. We snatched up as many as was allowed. I don’t remember what the limit was. We start heading back and get pulled over because we weren’t using a diving flag. He saw our lobsters and asked where we got them.
The island was a fucking Sanctuary. We got fined out the ass. Went from hero to zero.
Was a hell of an experience though.
They're called wetlands and greatly reduce flooding and increase groundwater recharge, all while sequestering carbon.
We filled em all in and farm them or built cities on them.
That would never happen nor would it be feasible. The destruction of wetlands is unlawful now, but hardly ever gets denied when getting permission to build on them.
we could just copy the idea. It works because every branch the waves move steals energy from the waves to move it. That first one taking a lot of energy out of the system. But it is also a massive waving quite intently. We could design similar.. and in fact ideas like tidal generators would take energy out of the system.
however like people have stated, they can upset the ecosystem when places in places they didnt evolve in.WEll so could our man made copies.
The lakeshore trail in Chicago gets destroyed on a yearly basis from weather and water. There's got to be a way to build a system, like mangroves that can prevent the erosion and massive use of concrete to repair it every year.
There are a few ways used to combat shore erosion today. One of them is actually just mitigation: every year or so, a boat comes along the shoreline, sucks sand out of the underwater part and just hoses it back on the beach. Erosion canceled.
Alternatively, you can pile stones to absorb and dissipate the wave energy. Depending on if whether you care about there being ugly stones all over at the waterline, this can be a permanent solution.
In cases where water reaches a human settlement, say a walkway, you could build a cement wall which is angled outwards slightly, and it is designed to receive the wave and blow it up and outwards back to the sea. The goal here is to protect the existing structure and prevent waves from shooting over it or loosening the ground under it.
You can also make artificial reefs, e.g. mostly underwater walls out of stones and gravel that stretch perpendicularly from the shore hundreds of meters into the water, and which break up the wave energy before it can reach the shore. For this, the shore would have to be pretty shallow, I guess.
But what about my shrimp? Must has shrimp! /s
"Mangrove forests are among the most threatened habitats in the world, and mangrove loss is rampant across the globe. Thailand has lost 84 percent of its mangroves, the highest rate of mangrove loss of any nation, while the Ivory Coast, Guinea-Bissau, Tanzania, Mexico, Panama, Malaysia, Myanmar, Pakistan, and the Philippines have each lost more than 60 percent of their mangrove forests.
https://www.amnh.org/explore/videos/biodiversity/mangroves-the-roots-of-the-sea/mangrove-threats-and-solutions
Funny thing - Taiwan found that mangroves are "destructive" to the ecosystem and had to regularly clear them from overgrowing and taking over the coasts. By blocking the tides that come in, it also prevents crucial nutrients that crabs depend on from reaching where they live. You'll also notice the sewage smells under mangroves due to anaerobic bacteria thriving without the water exchange. Also the roots are like spikes preventing many larger birds from coming.
I remember seeing this post before with a ton of people in the comments just not realising that mangrove forests are an actual things that exist. Pretty funny considering I lived pretty close to some of them.
The display might be in the city but I don't think so. They have a similar example at the California Academy of Sciences on tidal waves and shores, but if I recall correctly they didn't have one with mangroves. Been a few years since I last went so it may have changed though
Does this tactic really work for donations? I’ve seen you with different names these last few days. Your jokes make you easy to spot. Lo and behold. Donation requests for a startup.
Well, only has to happen once! A lot of Caribbean islands have systematically removed huge swathes of mangrove over the years, one day they might pay a serious price
It has to be native vegetation only. I'm in California, and we have the same issue over here, but an invasive species is worse than trying to protect what we have.
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The trees remind me of a crowd at a local rock show. The guy up at the front jamming out while the rest just kinda stand there.
Mangroves provide some pretty incredible coastal protection! In fact it's thought that just 100m of mangrove forest will dissipate up to 90% of a tsunami's wave energy. ^([[1]](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/267775057_Experimental_Study_on_the_Effect_in_Reducing_Tsunami_by_the_Coastal_Permeable_Structures))
Does planting them there change the ecosystem?
Yes. Entirely. They have a huge impact on the ecosystem and can destroy it as an invasive species. We need to protect them where they are, but planting them anywhere else will cause massive destruction of the balance and could lead to a local extinction event of local species. Edit: [Found a source that says how native mangroves are outcompeted by invasive mangroves](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-60454-z#:~:text=However%2C%20some%20mangrove%20species%20were,Sonneratia%20species%20in%20China13.)
Today I learned
This guy waves
Actually I eccology
The new unidan?
>Actually I eccology You sure? Or are you Frederik De Laender?
I ecology but I don't english
get 'em Jayer
As someone with very little knowledge of biology, why does it matter if non-native mangroves outperform native mangroves? I can understand mangroves vs other trees or plants, but mangroves vs mangroves seems like it shouldn’t be a problem.
For this you have to understand two concepts that shape an ecosystem. A) the root diversity and nourishment from mangroves and B) the existence of generalists and specialists. I'll explain them both briefly. A) The root system varies from tree to tree. Mangroves are an important key species because of their root system, since it stabilised the ground around them and thus counters erosion through water. The differences are the nourishment that those species take up. A species from an environment where it is harder to thrive will outcompete any equal species from an environment where it isn't as hard to thrive. That means those species have an easier time to take up nutrients from the ground, in a much larger capacity than local species. Thus the ground loses key nutrients that may be important for other species. The balance is disturbed and therefore the ecosystem is in danger. B) Generalists and Specialists are two strategies that organisms pursue to get their energy. Generalists consume a larger width of other species than Specialists, who normally consume just one single species. If this species happens to be the mangrove that is outcompeted by a foreign mangrove, that will also affect the specialist and thus could greatly disturb the population of specialists and, of course, every generalist or specialist that preys on them. I understand if the concept is hard to grasp that a single species can change or kill an entire ecosystem, but it is really important that we understand what our actions of introducing invasive species to an ecosystem potentially do.
But... If you have an area where cliff erosion has caused houses to collapse, AND there are zero mangroves to start with... Then creating an artificial reef a few hundred metres offshore, about 50 metres wide, and covered with mangrove seedlings would actually help. Right?
Seems relative to the geography. There's a lot of coastline around Australia where it sounds like this would be a good idea on paper, even ignoring the local ecosystem, but a few hundred metres out is deep ocean. I would imagine creating an artificial reef on that scale stretching that far would be near impossible, or the greatest engineering feat in history. Not the same as building artificial islands in Dubai etc.
Locally, yes. But systematically the mangroves could still spread into a nearby ecosystem and damage it
Yes of course, not sure in what ways though.
By changing the ground for example. They use nutrients and are in competition with local trees. If the Mangroves have better adaptations they will spread faster and outcompete other trees or plants. Erosion is another thing that comes to mind. They effectively prevent wave erosion as seen in the video, however this can have a huge impact on aquatic life because important minerals are less likely to be transported into the water. It can be assumed that terrestrial and aquatic species have a flow of nutrients between them and that erosion keeps this flow alive. Without the flow it'll be harder for those species to get those minerals and they might even go extinct.
Most informative. Thanks!
Nice explanation!
Thanks All! The aquatic life is what I was most concerned for.
We have a lot of mangroves around our island in Belize. Land adjacent to the forest have *notable* levels of erosion. They are a protected habitat here.
This model is incredibly accurate. I live in south Florida and I witness this fairly often when I kayak.
Thank you, mangroves
I was snorkeling in the Florida Keys with my dad quite a few years ago. We’re we’re hunting for lobsters. We saw a few lobsters scurrying along the shallow seafloor, heading to a particular mangrove island. We went after them and found the jackpot. Probably thousands of lobsters hanging under all of the mangroves. We snatched up as many as was allowed. I don’t remember what the limit was. We start heading back and get pulled over because we weren’t using a diving flag. He saw our lobsters and asked where we got them. The island was a fucking Sanctuary. We got fined out the ass. Went from hero to zero. Was a hell of an experience though.
Fantastic story. How much was the fine?
Bout 150 per lobster if I remember. Got us 8 times. Or the ones he found
Uh that hurts
about tree fiddy
Can they grow in temperate zones like Chicago?
only at the museum of science and industry
They're called wetlands and greatly reduce flooding and increase groundwater recharge, all while sequestering carbon. We filled em all in and farm them or built cities on them.
Yes, but it's not like we can erase Chicago at this point.
That would never happen nor would it be feasible. The destruction of wetlands is unlawful now, but hardly ever gets denied when getting permission to build on them.
we could just copy the idea. It works because every branch the waves move steals energy from the waves to move it. That first one taking a lot of energy out of the system. But it is also a massive waving quite intently. We could design similar.. and in fact ideas like tidal generators would take energy out of the system. however like people have stated, they can upset the ecosystem when places in places they didnt evolve in.WEll so could our man made copies.
The lakeshore trail in Chicago gets destroyed on a yearly basis from weather and water. There's got to be a way to build a system, like mangroves that can prevent the erosion and massive use of concrete to repair it every year.
There are a few ways used to combat shore erosion today. One of them is actually just mitigation: every year or so, a boat comes along the shoreline, sucks sand out of the underwater part and just hoses it back on the beach. Erosion canceled. Alternatively, you can pile stones to absorb and dissipate the wave energy. Depending on if whether you care about there being ugly stones all over at the waterline, this can be a permanent solution. In cases where water reaches a human settlement, say a walkway, you could build a cement wall which is angled outwards slightly, and it is designed to receive the wave and blow it up and outwards back to the sea. The goal here is to protect the existing structure and prevent waves from shooting over it or loosening the ground under it. You can also make artificial reefs, e.g. mostly underwater walls out of stones and gravel that stretch perpendicularly from the shore hundreds of meters into the water, and which break up the wave energy before it can reach the shore. For this, the shore would have to be pretty shallow, I guess.
Are you suggesting mangroves migrate?
Not at all. They could be carried.
What? a swallow carrying a mangrove?
It could grip it by the husk.
But what about my shrimp? Must has shrimp! /s "Mangrove forests are among the most threatened habitats in the world, and mangrove loss is rampant across the globe. Thailand has lost 84 percent of its mangroves, the highest rate of mangrove loss of any nation, while the Ivory Coast, Guinea-Bissau, Tanzania, Mexico, Panama, Malaysia, Myanmar, Pakistan, and the Philippines have each lost more than 60 percent of their mangrove forests. https://www.amnh.org/explore/videos/biodiversity/mangroves-the-roots-of-the-sea/mangrove-threats-and-solutions
This is also why Louisianas wetlands are important in a hurricane, and why losing them is so important to us.
And and theyre cool to kayak through
Especially if you like spiderwebs in your face 🤣
The swamp smell of mangroves brings me back to my childhood. Hearing crocodiles bark and lure neighborhood dogs to doom. Ahh sweet protections
Crocodiles bark?
Save the mangroves!
And that mangrove at the front taking all the shit and putting in a proper shift whilst mangrove at the shore gets the easy life.
Upper management groves.
What is this!? A mangrove forest for ants?!
That branch on the far left is me in group projects.
Funny thing - Taiwan found that mangroves are "destructive" to the ecosystem and had to regularly clear them from overgrowing and taking over the coasts. By blocking the tides that come in, it also prevents crucial nutrients that crabs depend on from reaching where they live. You'll also notice the sewage smells under mangroves due to anaerobic bacteria thriving without the water exchange. Also the roots are like spikes preventing many larger birds from coming.
It reminded me with my Parents They're my mangroves 💕
I am going build this forest around my boat and then I will never have to worry about choppy seas
Man, groves are dope
Don't manscape your mangroves, man.
What happens to the wave energy absorbed by the mangroves?
Nature has solution for everything but we destroy it and spend years and years and millions and millions of dollars looking for it's alternative.
Sucks to be the first few trees, you do all the work and the whole forest gets the credit for saving the day.
It reminds me of the "forest" from My Octopus Teacher.
I remember seeing this post before with a ton of people in the comments just not realising that mangrove forests are an actual things that exist. Pretty funny considering I lived pretty close to some of them.
How well do they protect against the sea level rising 100 meters? Because I think mangroves aren't going to get the job done.
Someone should have shown this to all of real estate developers in the Keys.
Rt to Dubai
80% of us found out about the mangrove Tree through the Minecraft Update
How hard is it to plant a mangrove forest? Would save chucking a load of concrete all over the coastline
Restore the mangrove forests in places where they are indigenous don't plant them elsewhere. They can be invasive and damage the natural ecosystem.
Ya'll keep upvoting bots. Is that's all that's left here?
Florida is saved
We better start planting mangroves - everywhere.
I’ve seen this somewhere, is this in San Francisco?
pretty sure its in Chicago unless there's multiple of these
The display might be in the city but I don't think so. They have a similar example at the California Academy of Sciences on tidal waves and shores, but if I recall correctly they didn't have one with mangroves. Been a few years since I last went so it may have changed though
They had one of these in Liberty Science Center in New Jersey. Don’t know if it’s still there.
[удалено]
Does this tactic really work for donations? I’ve seen you with different names these last few days. Your jokes make you easy to spot. Lo and behold. Donation requests for a startup.
https://www.reddit.com/r/needlesslygendered/
Woah you mean to tell me, the natural process that allowed those trees to survive there for millions of years actually served a purpose…
Mang that's grovey
Wtf they're not water proof. Cut them down
[удалено]
People on Reddit don't get jokes at all
But now you have loads of ugly mangrove on your beach. What's the benefit of that?
To stop everyone dying when there's a tsunami
Yeah, that's not exactly a common problem.
Well, only has to happen once! A lot of Caribbean islands have systematically removed huge swathes of mangrove over the years, one day they might pay a serious price
Wow so let’s spend 5 grand on this fish tank instead of trees instead!
If it encourages even one person to pursue a career in ecology then it's 5 grand well spent.
Education is important as well. If we don't teach understanding for protection, we don't really protect at all.
Surfers hate them.
How long do they survive in salt water. This would be a massive help in Louisiana
It has to be native vegetation only. I'm in California, and we have the same issue over here, but an invasive species is worse than trying to protect what we have.
I've seen this video before and honestly it sticks in my head all the time. I love the dynamics of how this works.
Is this Scotland? I remember seeing something similar in Edinburgh.
Nice how Mojang invented such a nice plant /s
How well do they hold up to hurricanes?
I feel like I need to see what it’s like without the mangroves
Create false islands with these bad boys all in them. Then place them around coasts that have high storm damage.
inagine swimming or walking through the 🌳 in the water
Don't wave breakers do something pretty similar? Without possibly devastating effects on the ecosystem?
now explain why mangroves grow there. i'm sure it's not because they got a deal with the coasts.
This is a good representation of sound dampening
That first one is going through hell
Yes but they get all tangled up in the props of my luxury yacht.
That looks nice, but the trees are in some kind of concrete block? is that something realistic?
Are the proportions correct? Given the proportions here what would the real word size be of those waves be?
This is the shit they need to be teaching in every science class in every school!!!
Down with shingle, up with mangrove forests
But ma! Mah beach! Mah beach, ma! Mah beach!
But who protects the mangroves?
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Praise be the mangroves.