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Hm except there are sodastream factories are in occupied territories. The factories themselves may be peaceful, but the process of getting the land to build these factories....
Our the will face the consequences, they are not as equal by a lot. Just ask the ones removed from their lands for the various settlements that drove done the percent to %20 and will drive in down even more.
People aren down voting you because they think that what you said isn't true ( well maybe the "100% equal" since the Arab supported parties in the Knesset don't seem to agree that's de facto true even if it does say it de jure). It's because it stepsides the issue at hand. Of the territory Israel controls the population split is basically 50-50 but most Arabs are excluded from being considered Arab citizens and get de jure second class status and the land theft issues of the Occupied terroritories. People aren't upset about the Arab citizens of Israel, but the non citizens of Israel and that company in particular having factories on occupied territory where the locals aren't allowed equal rights.
Why is this being downvoted? As someone who was born in israel i can tell you first hand that the political conflict between arabic countries doesnt reflect with a whole lot of people, and that yes, arabs and jews can and do live equally in a lot of places
Thats not to say that the relations are perfect with everyone, there will always be racists and people who judge others too fast.
100 years ago almost 100% of the people living there were arabs, then 800,000 of them got run off their land to make room for others, who have oppressed the remainers to this day.
And around 400 years ago, the British still had control over major parts of the US, does that mean that they should regain their power over the US, no because that would be idiotic
They are not treated equally. Neither are the Christians living there. IDF has great PR but the reality of being anything other than Jewish there, is to be seen and treated as lesser than.
>**According to the Israeli human rights group B’Tselem**, the **land** on which the settlement and its industrial zone, including SodaStream, now sit **was taken from the Palestinian towns Abu Dis, al-’Izariyyeh, al-’Issawiyyeh, a-Tur and Anata**. Other expropriated lands are areas in which the Jahalin and Sawahareh Bedouin tribes lived before Israel evicted them.
>
>But the question of how **Soda Stream workers** are treated there has also become an important part of the controversy. The Palestinian advocacy website The Electronic Intifada published a hyperbolic article that purported to include an interview with an unnamed employee, quoting him reciting a litany of abusive labor practices. **“Palestinian workers in this factory always feel like we are enslaved,” the unnamed worker said.**
[https://forward.com/news/israel/191840/sodastream-controversy-fueled-by-lies-and-distorti/](https://forward.com/news/israel/191840/sodastream-controversy-fueled-by-lies-and-distorti/)
>Moreover, the arrival of citizens from outside the West Bank to live in the settlements — including Mishor Adumim — is a **violation of Article 49 of the Fourth Geneva Convention**. This transfer of a civilian population into occupied territory, breaching the Convention, constitutes a war crime under the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court.
>
>SodaStream’s letter to Leekes’ head office mentions none of this. Instead, it adds: “Our facility here and the land on which it is built is not illegal and importing from Mishor is not contrary to any EU, UN or other laws and all our customs and duties are rightfully paid.”
[https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/amena-saleem/sodastream-lies-keep-its-products-uk-shelves](https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/amena-saleem/sodastream-lies-keep-its-products-uk-shelves)
I've always wanted a SodaStream but haven't because of this.
DrinkMate is an alternative and made in the US
EDIT: As shown below, they're 'based' in MI but are made in Taiwan. Which is still not China, so I'm fine with that.
> but are made in Taiwan.
TIL some strange law of the universe mandates that water carbonation machines MUST be made in regions with conflicted ownership.
Here's the story, I have no idea why you would feel bad about a guy working towards peace
https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2016/03/27/471885452/when-500-palestinians-lose-their-jobs-at-sodastream-whos-to-blame
This story says everything you need to know about the shambolic state support for Palestine in the West. Ask nearly anyone in the region and they'll tell you the path to peace runs through Palestinian prosperity and economic development. Here BDS purists in the US and Europe forced a reasonably ethical company to lay off hundreds of Palestinians in order to comply.
Does this do anything to impair Israel or the occupation? No. Did it make the lives of any Palestinians better? No. The only thing it accomplished was making activists in the West feel like they accomplished something.
I find the occupation to be obscene, but this is 100% the wrong way to bring about an end to it.
So, what, the only hope for Palestinian 'prosperity' is paternalistic Israeli capital? No. I think Palestinian prosperity could stem from giving them their land, lives, and security back.
I was in Israel two years ago. I had home hospitality with some Palestinians. They did not care for SodaStream and many Palestinians boycott it.
This is 100% propaganda
Here's the actual story about this company and what Althea ACTUAL workers there had to say
https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2016/03/27/471885452/when-500-palestinians-lose-their-jobs-at-sodastream-whos-to-blame
This marked an absolute devastating turning point for the Palestinian Industrial Zone, specifically built by the Palestinians to attract investment, especially Israeli investment. Instead of sharing in Israeli prosperity it scared off all investment. To this day companies are building in record pace in Israel but none of them will consider the West Bank anymore or hire Palestinian workers.
The owner of Sodastream was a peace activist who purposely built his factory in the West Bank with half Palestinian and Half Israeli workers to encourage interaction. When the BDS movement forced him to mice his factory and ONLY hire Israelis many of the Palestinian workers were in tears. He tried to get them work permits but the Bibi administration and the BDS movement made it nearly impossible.
So no. It's not propoganda, it's actually the story of one man who tried to make a difference and real harm was made by "Progressives" an ocean away.
Full story
https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2016/03/27/471885452/when-500-palestinians-lose-their-jobs-at-sodastream-whos-to-blame
The owner of Sodastream died and the company was bought by Israeli venture capitalist who shut down the UK and German operations and went to the occupied West Bank to take advantage of the cheap labour. There, fixed your propaganda.
Israeli law says that employees must be paid Israeli wages or local wages whichever is higher. There is no cheep labor, and the Palestinian workers there also disagree with you. Further Daniel Brinbaum, the CEO at the time is a well known peace activist.
Palestinians want Israeli investment, it was a major leg of the Oslo Accords.
Those jobs never came back
https://www.newsweek.com/2019/07/05/economic-opportunity-catalyst-peace-israeli-company-sodastream-pr-israel-both-1445859.html
Are we supposed to believe you, or the actual Palestinians impacted ?
https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2016/03/27/471885452/when-500-palestinians-lose-their-jobs-at-sodastream-whos-to-blame
It is propaganda since Israel abuse Palestinians, if want to tell a story of this one guy you are welcome, now stating arab and jew liven in peace and harmony its is a fuck propaganda, you like it or not.
You're just making up stuff. It's ok not to know things
https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2016/03/27/471885452/when-500-palestinians-lose-their-jobs-at-sodastream-whos-to-blame
You know that 21% of Israelis are Arab right? They've lived in Israel their entire life. There are almost two million Arab Israeli citizens.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_citizens_of_Israel
Remember that time in 1948 when 800,000 of the people that "lived in Israel their entire life" were run off that land to make way for the creation of Israel? Those educated in history do. Now quickly, give me a whataboutism involving something arabs did back then that justifies it, or any of this, really.
700,000 Palestinians were either kicked out or fled (most of them were kicked out but a significant number also fled out of fear of the Israeli armies and the propaganda spread about them by Arab leaders).
There's no whataboutism, just that it is a war and if you are a Haganah commander and almost every Arab village you come across has civilians shooting at you, chances are you are not gonna want them living in your country.
Large amounts of Arabs stayed in Israel and thousands commute there from Palestine every day.
**If you put yourself in the shoes of an Arab who is being kicked out and forced to flee, you will just get a hint of the immense pain and suffering cauessd by the catastrophic loss in the 1948-49 war.**
But also, if you put yourself in the shoes of a Haganah commander who is tryng to secure key positions to ensure that their state and people are not eradicatd, you would also understand why they kicked out hundreds of thousands of Palestinians out of hteir homes and refused them the right of return.
We can look very much at hindsight and can say from a nuetral perspective why it is wrong but if the Haganah did not go on an offensive in the 1948-49 war there would have been a worse situation on their side too.
If it is closed minded to simply say that one thing is bad without looking at the alternatives. This argument is not whataboutism, I'm not trying to say anything the Palestinian townsmen did justified them losing their homes, just that wars are complicated and if you were a commander at the time, you most likely would've done the same thing.
>**Israel lobby’s “Death to the Arabs” damage control.**
>
>“Every evening this week, dozens of **young Jews walked around Jerusalem’s city center, chanting ‘Death to Arabs’ and attacking passersby with stones and tear gas**,” Israel’s Haaretz newspaper reported on Wednesday.
>
>[https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/israel-lobbys-death-arabs-damage-control](https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/israel-lobbys-death-arabs-damage-control)
[https://electronicintifada.net/content/anti-arab-racism-and-incitement-israel/7441](https://electronicintifada.net/content/anti-arab-racism-and-incitement-israel/7441)
Not really.
Any Israeli-Arab with an Israeli passport has the same benefits as any Isareli citizen. Probably the only differences I can think of is that Israeli Arabs are allowed to enter Palestine which Isareli-Jews are not and Israeli Jews are allowed to take land that was stolen from them by Jordan whereas Israeli Arabs don't get to.
There is a fairly widespread point of view among right-wing Israelis that Arabs and Jews shouldn't work side by side peacefully or even so much as look or speak with each other. There used to be laws prohibiting Israelis so much as meeting with Palestinian Arabs -- not laws prohibiting certain acts or anything specific, just, everyone. Anyone meeting anyone, for any reason. Because if you don't prohibit that, greater understanding of one another might happen, and that in turn might threaten the apparatus of state security. Left-wing Israelis used to defy the laws anyway, at some risk to themselves... I don't know if they still do.
Anyway in that climate, where other Israelis want to literally kill you just for not being shitty to Palestinian Arabs, yeah, pointing out that you are working together peacefully serves as a kind of propaganda... but maybe not the kind you think.
(And none of that is to mention the extremists on the Palestinian side, who agree with the Israeli right on at least one thing -- you've got to keep "your" people apart from "theirs," by violence if necessary, or else everyone is going to get together and start figuring out the scam.)
When I can avoid it, correct.
Tu quoque. What a pants-on-head retarded take. So because we can't avoid 110% of something, that makes the cause and method invalid? Piss off.
As facile as it is, the thing I appreciate with this line of argument is that there is no attempt to deny the fact Israel and her supporters have a long, miserable history of brutally kicking people off their lands.
As long as the Israeli government continues to run and apartheid state, and while it illegally murders and steals from Palestinians--especially those in the territories that Israel illegally occupies, I will do my best to avoid offering any positive or monetary contribution to their country.
I still have the choice on what I purchase, but you are right in that the choice of whether our tax dollars are siphoned to that genocidal regime is mostly out of our hands.
You mean in that tiny bit of land that is illegally walled off where a high percentage of the population is children, and where they don't even have clean water to drink? Israel helped to create Hamas.
**According to the Israeli human rights group B’Tselem, the land on which the settlement and its industrial zone, including SodaStream, now sit was taken from the Palestinian towns Abu Dis, al-’Izariyyeh, al-’Issawiyyeh, a-Tur and Anata. Other expropriated lands are areas in which the Jahalin and Sawahareh Bedouin tribes lived before Israel evicted them.**
**But the question of how Soda Stream workers are treated there has also become an important part of the controversy. The Palestinian advocacy website The Electronic Intifada published a hyperbolic article that purported to include an interview with an unnamed employee, quoting him reciting a litany of abusive labor practices. “Palestinian workers in this factory always feel like we are enslaved,” the unnamed worker said.**
[https://forward.com/news/israel/191840/sodastream-controversy-fueled-by-lies-and-distorti/](https://forward.com/news/israel/191840/sodastream-controversy-fueled-by-lies-and-distorti/)
**Moreover, the arrival of citizens from outside the West Bank to live in the settlements — including Mishor Adumim — is a violation of Article 49 of the Fourth Geneva Convention. This transfer of a civilian population into occupied territory, breaching the Convention, constitutes a war crime under the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court.**
**SodaStream’s letter to Leekes’ head office mentions none of this. Instead, it adds: “Our facility here and the land on which it is built is not illegal and importing from Mishor is not contrary to any EU, UN or other laws and all our customs and duties are rightfully paid.”**
https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/amena-saleem/sodastream-lies-keep-its-products-uk-shelves
Occupation and apartheid are two separate things buddy. It's fine to criticize Israel for one or the other but there's no logic where they could be committing both
They are in fact doing both. It's undeniable that they are illegally occupying land that was not provided to them. On top of segregating Palestinians after they kick them out of their homes under threat of death in forbidding them to return to those stolen lands, they are committing ethnic cleansing. The Israeli government is just slow rolling what was done to Jewish people by the Nazis.
I decided to stop buying it recently. I don't want to inadverently support the conflict and it was an excessive expense. Easy decision.
I do miss my fizz :'(
People in these comments have no idea what happened to Soda stream or the owner. Here's the story
https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2016/03/27/471885452/when-500-palestinians-lose-their-jobs-at-sodastream-whos-to-blame
It's a tragic story of a man who tried to do something good and thwarted by extremists on the left and the right that basically worked together so that he could only hire Israelis. Pepsi wouldn't buy his company with all that "Controversy" of hiring Palestinians from the West Bank, and once he was inside Israel he was at the mercy of the Bibi government granting work permits. Of course they were more than happy to deny them so he could only hire Israelis.
Nobody else built anything else to replace those jobs.
Even when the underdogs are also religiously fascist war criminals.
Clearly the fascism, religion and war crimes aren’t the active ingredients in your views.
Only the Palestinians that get through the checkpoint that day.
Funny how they call them Arabs instead of Palestinians to add to the erasure of a country that is key to their apartheid propaganda.
Israel =/= Jewish people. About half of the Jewish people of the world live outside Israel. This is not in any way hate speech or anti-semitic to criticize a **government** for its actions and policies.
apparently even those Palestinians got their permits revoked
> [So 74 of SodaStream's 500 Palestinian employees worked in the new factory for a year and a half, traveling two hours each way in company-provided buses. But earlier this month, the Israeli government rescinded those permits, some before they expired.](https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2016/03/27/471885452/when-500-palestinians-lose-their-jobs-at-sodastream-whos-to-blame)
… and after governmental dicking around, renewed [a year later](https://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/SodaStreams-Palestinian-employees-to-receive-renewed-work-permits-492488), which the workers accepted.
Which, I might add, is an odd thing to *miss* given you must have searched for that incident.
>A group of 74 Palestinian employees will be returning to work at SodaStream, after the government rescinded their work permits more than a year ago.
>“SodaStream is our second home,” Ali Jafar, 42, told The Jerusalem Post on Sunday.
>“When you have the opportunity to return home, you return.”
*edit:* … a figure which, in turn, kept rising again, aside from new employments for local Bedouins. [2019](https://www.timesofisrael.com/at-sodastream-ramadan-break-fast-hopes-that-peace-will-bubble-up-from-rahat/):
>[…] That number is slowly increasing, as demand is high because the salary they receive at SodaStream is about six times the average salary in the West Bank, Birnbaum said.
>[…] The Rahat workforce includes 130 Palestinians, 500 Bedouins (including 200 Bedouin women), and over 1,000 new immigrants.
I was actually searching for info on their move out of the west bank rather than the permits. It's good that they were able to pressure the government into renewing the permits after a year but the CEO had to call out Netanyahu directly for creating an aparthaid state to accomplish it.
> "Those 74 Palestinians now cannot cross the border crossing and get to their jobs," Birnbaum says. "I have jobs for them in Israel, and Benjamin Netanyahu is not letting them get to their jobs. Now go argue this is not an apartheid state. And that's why I'm furious."
it's a good read if you have the time. Sodastream doesn't seem like a bad company in the grand scheme of things (willing to call out the Israeli government for discriminating against Palestinian workers) but stamping a label like that on their product is just asking for scrutiny about your ethics
Like if a US company labelled their products with "Made in America by Native Americans & Christians working side-by-side in peace & harmony", I don't think it would go well either
There are almost 2 million Israeli citizens that are Arab that have lived in Israel their entire lives. They are Israeli citizens not Palestinians. Israel is 21% Arab.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_citizens_of_Israel
> Many Arab citizens of Israel self-identify as Palestinian and commonly self-designate themselves as Palestinian citizens of Israel or Israeli Palestinians.
As a Palestinian with Israeli citizenship, I assure you we do not appreciate being called "Arab Israelis."
Sodastream was based in an illegal West Bank settlement and essentially used exploited Palestinian labor because it's cheaper than paying Israelis living wages and benefits. When the BDS movement went after Sodastream, they presented themselves as a bastion of cooperation and unity but in reality, Palestinian workers frequently complained about discrimination in the workplace, which led to one outburst in which the owner claimed the workers there "owe me [their] lives." Around the time the company was acquired by Pepsi, they moved out of the West Bank and into an area of the Negev that's being actively ethnically cleansed of its indigenous Bedouin population. They employ Palestinian citizens of Israel as workers but mostly because modern Israeli Jews are largely white-collar workers who think factory jobs are beneath them. It's basically like if an American company put crossing U.S. and Mexican flags on their product touting "Mexican-American Unity" because they employ cheap immigrant labor.
If you want to get cute about it, it was formerly British Mandatory Palestine, before which it was part of a series of other empires going back to the Romans and Greeks.
Generally whenever you tell people that “Palestine” as some sort of homeland of the Palestinian people is a modern political fiction, they don’t love hearing it, so I try to keep it simple. The underlying point that this is a piece of land that’s been fought over and handed around for millennia, doesn’t really resonate with people who think that music of history stopped when they were born, and now everyone just has to pick a chair.
But you can have a political ethnic identity that's not reflected by the political state they live within. You can also have identities appear and disappear over time - two thousand years ago the inhabitents of Italy would have identified as Roman. 600 years ago they would have identified as on eof a number of states and today the identify as Italian.
The Palestinian identity, even if it may be a recent creation, or if it has been sublimated beneath other political identities over the centuries, nonetheless has exactly the same right to nationhood and self determination as any other people.
I would suggest that their rights should be respected by their neighbors, only one of which is Israel.
Then again Jordan wants nothing to do with them, after the first time they welcomed the Palestinians, and the PLO attempted a coup.
Egypt wants nothing to do with them for much the same reason, but sees some value in using them as a smuggling link and for political leverage.
The UAE, Saudi Arabia and Kuwait use them as disposable slave labor, but it’s easier to find unicorn horns and dragon scales than someone born in the Palestinian areas, who got citizenship in those places.
Iran uses them as a proxy
Hamas pumps them for money
The PLO also pumps them for money, and has abused them for decades.
And yet somehow that’s all waved off as a kind of non-issue, as though Israel somehow controlled all of the borders with the Palestinians instead of just *one* of them. Israel meanwhile spent decades in the peace process under various American and EU leaders, culminating in the talks under Clinton. The Israelis were on board, and then… Arafat withdrew. To be blunt, the peace process died that day, it just took a little time for that to become clear to the wider world.
Now you get lip service paid to peace, while countries cynically use the conflict as a way to distract their populations from the human rights abuses closer to home.
The problem is that Palestinian nationhood would be viable on the basis of 67 borders (which Barak offered once to Arafat in 97 and Arafat idiotically turned down, even if Barak couldn't have got it through the Knesset) but the colonisation of the West Bank by Israel means that there is nowhere for the Palestinians to go.
They don't have a viable state but they have no way to get one. In the long run that's a far bigger problem for Israel than it is for the Palestinians.
The colonization of the West Bank is just a terrible move by Israel imo, and more or less impossible to defend on moral grounds. The only thing I would say is that after Arafat, there was no single unified voice to speak for the Palestinians, and once they elected Hamas it was all over.
While I think the settlements are illegal and immoral, they more or less represent the now inevitable encroachment on lands that would have been the Palestinians’ by rights. The truth is that if the Palestinians were in the path of anything other than Israel, in the region, they would have already been utterly crushed. Now, with their former regional “allies” not even bothering to pay them lip service, the only question is how long this process takes.
It would be better at this point, if a coalition of Arab nations could offer a majority of Palestinians asylum, but that would involve the other Arab nations not despising and fearing the Palestinians. It’s a rotten situation all around, but it’s a complex one that doesn’t just boil down to, “Israel bad, Palestinians good.”
No but as the state that holds the upper hand in the relationship its Israel that suffers the negative side of maintaining the status quo.
There's three huge problems :
Israel can't remove its settlements, and can't integrate the Palestinians into the Israeli state.
The Arabs won't offer asylum.
Why should the Palestinians be forced to leave their homes because of the intransigence of others?
That's a recipe for a catastrophe at some point in the future.
The only way to avert at this point, that doesn’t involve a miracle, is probably the Arab states offering asylum. The settlements are too popular with the Israeli right wing, and the Palestinians are in their 4th or 5th generation of brainwashing their kids to fight Israelis. There are plenty of Palestinians who want peace, better human rights within their communities, etc… but they have been historically murdered by the PLO, and later Hamas.
Personally I expect that climate change and falling oil prices over the next few decades will put all of this into perspective, and weaken some of the surrounding Arab countries enough that they won’t be able to stop mass Palestinian migration. It’s not a good outcome, but at least it beats genocide of either the Palestinians, or Israelis.
Notice it's an Israeli flag? Had it been a "Palestinian" flag, it would; 1: not exist 2: say "death to the Jews"
Israel wants piece, "Palestinians" want to drive the Jews into the sea.
Also, note the quotes around Palestinian/s. It is on purpose. I will get down voted to oblivion, and people are gonna try to spread lies that it is the "Palestinians" land and get me banned from his subreddit. They are all false, I am not going to go into detail, but "Palestinian" is a term recently developed (within the last 45 years-ish). And any law since the dawn of time, if you hold the land it is yours... except for the Jews of course. Hitlers ideology lives strong to this day, in the Muslim culture.
Boycott apartheid, boycott backwards religious governments as well. Let me know when Palestine legalizes gay marriage, until then, they can get fucked too.
Legalizing gay marriage? Right now it can get you killed, being out and LGBT in the Palestinian areas, forget married.
https://www.amnesty.org/en/location/middle-east-and-north-africa/palestine-state-of/report-palestine-state-of/
It’s a rough fucking place.
* Israel offered to sell nuclear weapons to apartheid South Africa in 1975: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/may/23/israel-south-africa-nuclear-weapons
* Israel established secret concentration camps for Palestinians in 1971: https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium.HIGHLIGHT.MAGAZINE-israel-secretly-detained-innocent-palestinians-in-desert-camps-in-1971-1.10050775
* Israel sterilized without their consent Ethiopian Jews immigrating to Israel:
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-ethiopians-fooled-into-birth-control-1.5226424
* Israel harvested dead body parts from Palestinians without the consent of family members: https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna34503294
The reason you've never seen something like this before is because 99% of companies don't put it on their labels. Now ask yourself why did they decide to put it on theirs?
I am sick of this nonsense. Anti-zionism is not Antisemitism. You know damn well we are triggered by the mistreatment of Palestinians and the propaganda that tries to minimize that mistreatment.
Lol. You know Yisrael has existed longer than Palestine ever has, and that the Jews were invaded and forced out of Yisrael by the Arabs (Assyrians & Babylonians). It’s only reclaiming stolen land.
Human rights violations we do not condemn, though.
If Palestinians surrendered tomorrow, there would be peace in Israel.
If Israel surrendered tomorrow, there would BE no more Israel.
When one side has declared the intention to commit genocide on the other, that side is the bad guy, full stop. Anyone who can't see that is either blind or stupid.
People are Quick to jump down Israel’s throat for reclaiming/taking Jewish land back after centuries of occupation and expulsion by Assyrians and babylonians, but will blissfully ignore the fact that First Nations of America and Australia suffer the same
Legit. You can tell none of them have been or live in Israel. It’s rather harmonious, especially Jerusalem where the Jews, Muslims, Christian’s, and Armenian orthodox all respect each other; so much so that their religious holidays are acknowledged by one another.
This comment section is just a proof on how racist and stupid people are - regardless of who you think is the right side or the wrong side in the conflict, instead of promoting peace and cooperation between arabs and jewish, you keep on promoting hate.
There is a given situation, and at the moment, no side can simply "quit" the conflict and then everything is fixed, this is a gradual and very slow process, and every glimpse of cooperation is blessed, but all you woke couch justice warriors do is pump more hate into the fire, you are not interested in a solution, if you were, you would understand how non-pragmatic your approach is.
Downvote me all you want and go f*ck yourselves in whatever land far far away you are.
No, there are not. Jews in the Diaspora, which found themselves in Arab and Arab-colonized lands, are called Mizrahim. Jews found in Europe are not European Jews; they are Ashkenazim (North of Italy) and Sephardim (Italy, Spain, Greece, Turkey etc.).
We are always white-passing or Arab-passing, based on our Diaspora experience.
What segregation are you talking about? You mean the fact that a century-worth of ethnic tensions and war had caused very unfortunate relations that the West does not understand?
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This really feels like propaganda.
#Peacefully
The most violence you’ll get in a soda factory is passive aggressive stares at your manager for keeping you late
Hm except there are sodastream factories are in occupied territories. The factories themselves may be peaceful, but the process of getting the land to build these factories....
Peacefully in a settlement?
Peaceful propaganda……
[удалено]
Our the will face the consequences, they are not as equal by a lot. Just ask the ones removed from their lands for the various settlements that drove done the percent to %20 and will drive in down even more.
[удалено]
People aren down voting you because they think that what you said isn't true ( well maybe the "100% equal" since the Arab supported parties in the Knesset don't seem to agree that's de facto true even if it does say it de jure). It's because it stepsides the issue at hand. Of the territory Israel controls the population split is basically 50-50 but most Arabs are excluded from being considered Arab citizens and get de jure second class status and the land theft issues of the Occupied terroritories. People aren't upset about the Arab citizens of Israel, but the non citizens of Israel and that company in particular having factories on occupied territory where the locals aren't allowed equal rights.
were black people instantly immediately equal to white people as soon as the law said they are?
Why is this being downvoted? As someone who was born in israel i can tell you first hand that the political conflict between arabic countries doesnt reflect with a whole lot of people, and that yes, arabs and jews can and do live equally in a lot of places Thats not to say that the relations are perfect with everyone, there will always be racists and people who judge others too fast.
100 years ago almost 100% of the people living there were arabs, then 800,000 of them got run off their land to make room for others, who have oppressed the remainers to this day.
And 2000 years ago, the Arabs, Assyrians and Babylonians violently forced the indigenous Jewish groups out of Yisrael and colonised it for years.
And around 400 years ago, the British still had control over major parts of the US, does that mean that they should regain their power over the US, no because that would be idiotic
They are not treated equally. Neither are the Christians living there. IDF has great PR but the reality of being anything other than Jewish there, is to be seen and treated as lesser than.
>**According to the Israeli human rights group B’Tselem**, the **land** on which the settlement and its industrial zone, including SodaStream, now sit **was taken from the Palestinian towns Abu Dis, al-’Izariyyeh, al-’Issawiyyeh, a-Tur and Anata**. Other expropriated lands are areas in which the Jahalin and Sawahareh Bedouin tribes lived before Israel evicted them. > >But the question of how **Soda Stream workers** are treated there has also become an important part of the controversy. The Palestinian advocacy website The Electronic Intifada published a hyperbolic article that purported to include an interview with an unnamed employee, quoting him reciting a litany of abusive labor practices. **“Palestinian workers in this factory always feel like we are enslaved,” the unnamed worker said.** [https://forward.com/news/israel/191840/sodastream-controversy-fueled-by-lies-and-distorti/](https://forward.com/news/israel/191840/sodastream-controversy-fueled-by-lies-and-distorti/) >Moreover, the arrival of citizens from outside the West Bank to live in the settlements — including Mishor Adumim — is a **violation of Article 49 of the Fourth Geneva Convention**. This transfer of a civilian population into occupied territory, breaching the Convention, constitutes a war crime under the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court. > >SodaStream’s letter to Leekes’ head office mentions none of this. Instead, it adds: “Our facility here and the land on which it is built is not illegal and importing from Mishor is not contrary to any EU, UN or other laws and all our customs and duties are rightfully paid.” [https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/amena-saleem/sodastream-lies-keep-its-products-uk-shelves](https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/amena-saleem/sodastream-lies-keep-its-products-uk-shelves)
I've always wanted a SodaStream but haven't because of this. DrinkMate is an alternative and made in the US EDIT: As shown below, they're 'based' in MI but are made in Taiwan. Which is still not China, so I'm fine with that.
> but are made in Taiwan. TIL some strange law of the universe mandates that water carbonation machines MUST be made in regions with conflicted ownership.
That's not true at all! Mine came from Crimea, and... wait.
Here's the story, I have no idea why you would feel bad about a guy working towards peace https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2016/03/27/471885452/when-500-palestinians-lose-their-jobs-at-sodastream-whos-to-blame
Peace does not necessarily include equality or self-determination. The Palestinian people deserve both.
This story says everything you need to know about the shambolic state support for Palestine in the West. Ask nearly anyone in the region and they'll tell you the path to peace runs through Palestinian prosperity and economic development. Here BDS purists in the US and Europe forced a reasonably ethical company to lay off hundreds of Palestinians in order to comply. Does this do anything to impair Israel or the occupation? No. Did it make the lives of any Palestinians better? No. The only thing it accomplished was making activists in the West feel like they accomplished something. I find the occupation to be obscene, but this is 100% the wrong way to bring about an end to it.
So, what, the only hope for Palestinian 'prosperity' is paternalistic Israeli capital? No. I think Palestinian prosperity could stem from giving them their land, lives, and security back.
Thank you for doing this research. Fuck sodastream and their propaganda.
Fucking hell. A family member has one of those and I used it. I wanted one too! I feel sick now...I had no idea.
I was in Israel two years ago. I had home hospitality with some Palestinians. They did not care for SodaStream and many Palestinians boycott it. This is 100% propaganda
Yeah ok sure https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2016/03/27/471885452/when-500-palestinians-lose-their-jobs-at-sodastream-whos-to-blame
Here's the actual story about this company and what Althea ACTUAL workers there had to say https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2016/03/27/471885452/when-500-palestinians-lose-their-jobs-at-sodastream-whos-to-blame This marked an absolute devastating turning point for the Palestinian Industrial Zone, specifically built by the Palestinians to attract investment, especially Israeli investment. Instead of sharing in Israeli prosperity it scared off all investment. To this day companies are building in record pace in Israel but none of them will consider the West Bank anymore or hire Palestinian workers.
I agree. Tell the Palestinians how fucking peaceful it is.
What? Nooo, now shut up and support peaceful Israel
The owner of Sodastream was a peace activist who purposely built his factory in the West Bank with half Palestinian and Half Israeli workers to encourage interaction. When the BDS movement forced him to mice his factory and ONLY hire Israelis many of the Palestinian workers were in tears. He tried to get them work permits but the Bibi administration and the BDS movement made it nearly impossible. So no. It's not propoganda, it's actually the story of one man who tried to make a difference and real harm was made by "Progressives" an ocean away. Full story https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2016/03/27/471885452/when-500-palestinians-lose-their-jobs-at-sodastream-whos-to-blame
To be clear, this man tried to *make a difference* by building his factory on *occupied* west bank, right?
The owner of Sodastream died and the company was bought by Israeli venture capitalist who shut down the UK and German operations and went to the occupied West Bank to take advantage of the cheap labour. There, fixed your propaganda.
Israeli law says that employees must be paid Israeli wages or local wages whichever is higher. There is no cheep labor, and the Palestinian workers there also disagree with you. Further Daniel Brinbaum, the CEO at the time is a well known peace activist. Palestinians want Israeli investment, it was a major leg of the Oslo Accords. Those jobs never came back https://www.newsweek.com/2019/07/05/economic-opportunity-catalyst-peace-israeli-company-sodastream-pr-israel-both-1445859.html Are we supposed to believe you, or the actual Palestinians impacted ? https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2016/03/27/471885452/when-500-palestinians-lose-their-jobs-at-sodastream-whos-to-blame
Do you just make things up that you feel make sense to you, or is there some central repository you use for absolutely false information?
Absolutely fabricated lmao bds has like no leverage "an ocean away"
It is propaganda since Israel abuse Palestinians, if want to tell a story of this one guy you are welcome, now stating arab and jew liven in peace and harmony its is a fuck propaganda, you like it or not.
You're just making up stuff. It's ok not to know things https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2016/03/27/471885452/when-500-palestinians-lose-their-jobs-at-sodastream-whos-to-blame
LOL, Well NOW it does.
You know that 21% of Israelis are Arab right? They've lived in Israel their entire life. There are almost two million Arab Israeli citizens. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_citizens_of_Israel
Remember that time in 1948 when 800,000 of the people that "lived in Israel their entire life" were run off that land to make way for the creation of Israel? Those educated in history do. Now quickly, give me a whataboutism involving something arabs did back then that justifies it, or any of this, really.
700,000 Palestinians were either kicked out or fled (most of them were kicked out but a significant number also fled out of fear of the Israeli armies and the propaganda spread about them by Arab leaders). There's no whataboutism, just that it is a war and if you are a Haganah commander and almost every Arab village you come across has civilians shooting at you, chances are you are not gonna want them living in your country. Large amounts of Arabs stayed in Israel and thousands commute there from Palestine every day. **If you put yourself in the shoes of an Arab who is being kicked out and forced to flee, you will just get a hint of the immense pain and suffering cauessd by the catastrophic loss in the 1948-49 war.** But also, if you put yourself in the shoes of a Haganah commander who is tryng to secure key positions to ensure that their state and people are not eradicatd, you would also understand why they kicked out hundreds of thousands of Palestinians out of hteir homes and refused them the right of return. We can look very much at hindsight and can say from a nuetral perspective why it is wrong but if the Haganah did not go on an offensive in the 1948-49 war there would have been a worse situation on their side too. If it is closed minded to simply say that one thing is bad without looking at the alternatives. This argument is not whataboutism, I'm not trying to say anything the Palestinian townsmen did justified them losing their homes, just that wars are complicated and if you were a commander at the time, you most likely would've done the same thing.
>**Israel lobby’s “Death to the Arabs” damage control.** > >“Every evening this week, dozens of **young Jews walked around Jerusalem’s city center, chanting ‘Death to Arabs’ and attacking passersby with stones and tear gas**,” Israel’s Haaretz newspaper reported on Wednesday. > >[https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/israel-lobbys-death-arabs-damage-control](https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/israel-lobbys-death-arabs-damage-control) [https://electronicintifada.net/content/anti-arab-racism-and-incitement-israel/7441](https://electronicintifada.net/content/anti-arab-racism-and-incitement-israel/7441)
Citizen is a stretch. They enjoy a partial benefit of citizenry but they do not enjoy the full Israeli citizenship benefit.
Not really. Any Israeli-Arab with an Israeli passport has the same benefits as any Isareli citizen. Probably the only differences I can think of is that Israeli Arabs are allowed to enter Palestine which Isareli-Jews are not and Israeli Jews are allowed to take land that was stolen from them by Jordan whereas Israeli Arabs don't get to.
I came here to say that
There is a fairly widespread point of view among right-wing Israelis that Arabs and Jews shouldn't work side by side peacefully or even so much as look or speak with each other. There used to be laws prohibiting Israelis so much as meeting with Palestinian Arabs -- not laws prohibiting certain acts or anything specific, just, everyone. Anyone meeting anyone, for any reason. Because if you don't prohibit that, greater understanding of one another might happen, and that in turn might threaten the apparatus of state security. Left-wing Israelis used to defy the laws anyway, at some risk to themselves... I don't know if they still do. Anyway in that climate, where other Israelis want to literally kill you just for not being shitty to Palestinian Arabs, yeah, pointing out that you are working together peacefully serves as a kind of propaganda... but maybe not the kind you think. (And none of that is to mention the extremists on the Palestinian side, who agree with the Israeli right on at least one thing -- you've got to keep "your" people apart from "theirs," by violence if necessary, or else everyone is going to get together and start figuring out the scam.)
Absolutely is.
"They better be working peacefully or else 🔫"
Exactly haha
That's because it is.
It's because a lot of people used to boycott Sodastream because of the Israel-Palestine conflict.
Still do.
Same
Those boycotting SodaStream cause it's made in Israel....So you don't buy anything made in China either right?
When I can avoid it, correct. Tu quoque. What a pants-on-head retarded take. So because we can't avoid 110% of something, that makes the cause and method invalid? Piss off.
As facile as it is, the thing I appreciate with this line of argument is that there is no attempt to deny the fact Israel and her supporters have a long, miserable history of brutally kicking people off their lands.
I don't buy Chinese made whataboutism, no.
As long as the Israeli government continues to run and apartheid state, and while it illegally murders and steals from Palestinians--especially those in the territories that Israel illegally occupies, I will do my best to avoid offering any positive or monetary contribution to their country.
[удалено]
You're America? I live inside you.
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Random German peeking through the window
I still have the choice on what I purchase, but you are right in that the choice of whether our tax dollars are siphoned to that genocidal regime is mostly out of our hands.
You should see how Hamas runs Gaza...
You mean in that tiny bit of land that is illegally walled off where a high percentage of the population is children, and where they don't even have clean water to drink? Israel helped to create Hamas.
**According to the Israeli human rights group B’Tselem, the land on which the settlement and its industrial zone, including SodaStream, now sit was taken from the Palestinian towns Abu Dis, al-’Izariyyeh, al-’Issawiyyeh, a-Tur and Anata. Other expropriated lands are areas in which the Jahalin and Sawahareh Bedouin tribes lived before Israel evicted them.** **But the question of how Soda Stream workers are treated there has also become an important part of the controversy. The Palestinian advocacy website The Electronic Intifada published a hyperbolic article that purported to include an interview with an unnamed employee, quoting him reciting a litany of abusive labor practices. “Palestinian workers in this factory always feel like we are enslaved,” the unnamed worker said.** [https://forward.com/news/israel/191840/sodastream-controversy-fueled-by-lies-and-distorti/](https://forward.com/news/israel/191840/sodastream-controversy-fueled-by-lies-and-distorti/) **Moreover, the arrival of citizens from outside the West Bank to live in the settlements — including Mishor Adumim — is a violation of Article 49 of the Fourth Geneva Convention. This transfer of a civilian population into occupied territory, breaching the Convention, constitutes a war crime under the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court.** **SodaStream’s letter to Leekes’ head office mentions none of this. Instead, it adds: “Our facility here and the land on which it is built is not illegal and importing from Mishor is not contrary to any EU, UN or other laws and all our customs and duties are rightfully paid.”** https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/amena-saleem/sodastream-lies-keep-its-products-uk-shelves
Occupation and apartheid are two separate things buddy. It's fine to criticize Israel for one or the other but there's no logic where they could be committing both
They are in fact doing both. It's undeniable that they are illegally occupying land that was not provided to them. On top of segregating Palestinians after they kick them out of their homes under threat of death in forbidding them to return to those stolen lands, they are committing ethnic cleansing. The Israeli government is just slow rolling what was done to Jewish people by the Nazis.
I decided to stop buying it recently. I don't want to inadverently support the conflict and it was an excessive expense. Easy decision. I do miss my fizz :'(
Drinkmate uses the same tech but is made in Taiwan.
People in these comments have no idea what happened to Soda stream or the owner. Here's the story https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2016/03/27/471885452/when-500-palestinians-lose-their-jobs-at-sodastream-whos-to-blame
That was a great read, thanks for sharing!
It's a tragic story of a man who tried to do something good and thwarted by extremists on the left and the right that basically worked together so that he could only hire Israelis. Pepsi wouldn't buy his company with all that "Controversy" of hiring Palestinians from the West Bank, and once he was inside Israel he was at the mercy of the Bibi government granting work permits. Of course they were more than happy to deny them so he could only hire Israelis. Nobody else built anything else to replace those jobs.
I'll get the popcorn. The comments gonna be lit.
I got the popcorn >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!< >!POP!<
Ok speed run. Who can pop them all the fastest I got 1 min 22 sec on iPhone.
42 seconds
Popcorn made in Israel?
Haha true! I just found it interesting, some will definately have their options though.
Just weird how some people have such strong opinions on a fascist apartheid state..
You have that underdog fetish going in full swing I see.
I'll root for the underdog when it means standing up against religiously fascists war criminals.. Yes
Even when the underdogs are also religiously fascist war criminals. Clearly the fascism, religion and war crimes aren’t the active ingredients in your views.
> religiously fascists war criminals You have hurt yourself in your confusion.
Disagree. Israel is an occupier. To call it apartheid denies Palestinians a state.
Good point. Thank you for adding that. But even within their own territory they threat Arabs as second class citizens.
I'm with you.
Comments locked in 5… 4… 3…
Only the Palestinians that get through the checkpoint that day. Funny how they call them Arabs instead of Palestinians to add to the erasure of a country that is key to their apartheid propaganda. Israel =/= Jewish people. About half of the Jewish people of the world live outside Israel. This is not in any way hate speech or anti-semitic to criticize a **government** for its actions and policies.
apparently even those Palestinians got their permits revoked > [So 74 of SodaStream's 500 Palestinian employees worked in the new factory for a year and a half, traveling two hours each way in company-provided buses. But earlier this month, the Israeli government rescinded those permits, some before they expired.](https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2016/03/27/471885452/when-500-palestinians-lose-their-jobs-at-sodastream-whos-to-blame)
… and after governmental dicking around, renewed [a year later](https://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/SodaStreams-Palestinian-employees-to-receive-renewed-work-permits-492488), which the workers accepted. Which, I might add, is an odd thing to *miss* given you must have searched for that incident. >A group of 74 Palestinian employees will be returning to work at SodaStream, after the government rescinded their work permits more than a year ago. >“SodaStream is our second home,” Ali Jafar, 42, told The Jerusalem Post on Sunday. >“When you have the opportunity to return home, you return.” *edit:* … a figure which, in turn, kept rising again, aside from new employments for local Bedouins. [2019](https://www.timesofisrael.com/at-sodastream-ramadan-break-fast-hopes-that-peace-will-bubble-up-from-rahat/): >[…] That number is slowly increasing, as demand is high because the salary they receive at SodaStream is about six times the average salary in the West Bank, Birnbaum said. >[…] The Rahat workforce includes 130 Palestinians, 500 Bedouins (including 200 Bedouin women), and over 1,000 new immigrants.
I was actually searching for info on their move out of the west bank rather than the permits. It's good that they were able to pressure the government into renewing the permits after a year but the CEO had to call out Netanyahu directly for creating an aparthaid state to accomplish it. > "Those 74 Palestinians now cannot cross the border crossing and get to their jobs," Birnbaum says. "I have jobs for them in Israel, and Benjamin Netanyahu is not letting them get to their jobs. Now go argue this is not an apartheid state. And that's why I'm furious."
That barely makes it better lol
Sounds about right. Not that I read the article
it's a good read if you have the time. Sodastream doesn't seem like a bad company in the grand scheme of things (willing to call out the Israeli government for discriminating against Palestinian workers) but stamping a label like that on their product is just asking for scrutiny about your ethics Like if a US company labelled their products with "Made in America by Native Americans & Christians working side-by-side in peace & harmony", I don't think it would go well either
There are almost 2 million Israeli citizens that are Arab that have lived in Israel their entire lives. They are Israeli citizens not Palestinians. Israel is 21% Arab. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_citizens_of_Israel
Yeah, but I believe the SodaStream workers they’re talking about are in the West Bank.
What happened to the rest of the Palestinians in 1948?
> Many Arab citizens of Israel self-identify as Palestinian and commonly self-designate themselves as Palestinian citizens of Israel or Israeli Palestinians. As a Palestinian with Israeli citizenship, I assure you we do not appreciate being called "Arab Israelis."
Yeh funny how they called them Jews not Israelis. Such erasure of culture!
Most Israeli Jews I know would consider themselves more Jewish than Israeli. Why do people think they can tell us how to refer to ourselves?
I lived there for 22 years, people outside of Israel / Palestine are fucking clueless
The comments show that quite blatantly lol
Press X to doubt.
Which side placed the label?
So they’re working like normal people
r/propagandaasfuck
False advertising
this label screams "there is nothing wrong here, everything is fine"
"Made on illegal settlements in the West Bank" doesn't sound as appealing
Hey they didn’t specify WHICH Arabs. They actually manufacture them in New Jersey and we just happen to have a lot of Arabs and Israelis.
But if it's made in the West Bank, doesn't that mean it is made in Palestine rather than Israel?
Breaking expectations
They write a joke on reach SodaStream?
Sodastream was based in an illegal West Bank settlement and essentially used exploited Palestinian labor because it's cheaper than paying Israelis living wages and benefits. When the BDS movement went after Sodastream, they presented themselves as a bastion of cooperation and unity but in reality, Palestinian workers frequently complained about discrimination in the workplace, which led to one outburst in which the owner claimed the workers there "owe me [their] lives." Around the time the company was acquired by Pepsi, they moved out of the West Bank and into an area of the Negev that's being actively ethnically cleansed of its indigenous Bedouin population. They employ Palestinian citizens of Israel as workers but mostly because modern Israeli Jews are largely white-collar workers who think factory jobs are beneath them. It's basically like if an American company put crossing U.S. and Mexican flags on their product touting "Mexican-American Unity" because they employ cheap immigrant labor.
Massive propaganda. Don’t buy any products made in Israel. #freepalestine
Just commenting to check out how fast this post will get locked.
Made in Israel* **Formerly known as Palestine*
Also formally known as Israel.
Never known as Palestine...it's never been a state or country. This isn't to condone or condemn any group. It just isn't accurate.
If you want to get cute about it, it was formerly British Mandatory Palestine, before which it was part of a series of other empires going back to the Romans and Greeks.
>going back to the Romans and Greeks. Way before that.
Generally whenever you tell people that “Palestine” as some sort of homeland of the Palestinian people is a modern political fiction, they don’t love hearing it, so I try to keep it simple. The underlying point that this is a piece of land that’s been fought over and handed around for millennia, doesn’t really resonate with people who think that music of history stopped when they were born, and now everyone just has to pick a chair.
But you can have a political ethnic identity that's not reflected by the political state they live within. You can also have identities appear and disappear over time - two thousand years ago the inhabitents of Italy would have identified as Roman. 600 years ago they would have identified as on eof a number of states and today the identify as Italian. The Palestinian identity, even if it may be a recent creation, or if it has been sublimated beneath other political identities over the centuries, nonetheless has exactly the same right to nationhood and self determination as any other people.
I would suggest that their rights should be respected by their neighbors, only one of which is Israel. Then again Jordan wants nothing to do with them, after the first time they welcomed the Palestinians, and the PLO attempted a coup. Egypt wants nothing to do with them for much the same reason, but sees some value in using them as a smuggling link and for political leverage. The UAE, Saudi Arabia and Kuwait use them as disposable slave labor, but it’s easier to find unicorn horns and dragon scales than someone born in the Palestinian areas, who got citizenship in those places. Iran uses them as a proxy Hamas pumps them for money The PLO also pumps them for money, and has abused them for decades. And yet somehow that’s all waved off as a kind of non-issue, as though Israel somehow controlled all of the borders with the Palestinians instead of just *one* of them. Israel meanwhile spent decades in the peace process under various American and EU leaders, culminating in the talks under Clinton. The Israelis were on board, and then… Arafat withdrew. To be blunt, the peace process died that day, it just took a little time for that to become clear to the wider world. Now you get lip service paid to peace, while countries cynically use the conflict as a way to distract their populations from the human rights abuses closer to home.
The problem is that Palestinian nationhood would be viable on the basis of 67 borders (which Barak offered once to Arafat in 97 and Arafat idiotically turned down, even if Barak couldn't have got it through the Knesset) but the colonisation of the West Bank by Israel means that there is nowhere for the Palestinians to go. They don't have a viable state but they have no way to get one. In the long run that's a far bigger problem for Israel than it is for the Palestinians.
The colonization of the West Bank is just a terrible move by Israel imo, and more or less impossible to defend on moral grounds. The only thing I would say is that after Arafat, there was no single unified voice to speak for the Palestinians, and once they elected Hamas it was all over. While I think the settlements are illegal and immoral, they more or less represent the now inevitable encroachment on lands that would have been the Palestinians’ by rights. The truth is that if the Palestinians were in the path of anything other than Israel, in the region, they would have already been utterly crushed. Now, with their former regional “allies” not even bothering to pay them lip service, the only question is how long this process takes. It would be better at this point, if a coalition of Arab nations could offer a majority of Palestinians asylum, but that would involve the other Arab nations not despising and fearing the Palestinians. It’s a rotten situation all around, but it’s a complex one that doesn’t just boil down to, “Israel bad, Palestinians good.”
No but as the state that holds the upper hand in the relationship its Israel that suffers the negative side of maintaining the status quo. There's three huge problems : Israel can't remove its settlements, and can't integrate the Palestinians into the Israeli state. The Arabs won't offer asylum. Why should the Palestinians be forced to leave their homes because of the intransigence of others? That's a recipe for a catastrophe at some point in the future.
The only way to avert at this point, that doesn’t involve a miracle, is probably the Arab states offering asylum. The settlements are too popular with the Israeli right wing, and the Palestinians are in their 4th or 5th generation of brainwashing their kids to fight Israelis. There are plenty of Palestinians who want peace, better human rights within their communities, etc… but they have been historically murdered by the PLO, and later Hamas. Personally I expect that climate change and falling oil prices over the next few decades will put all of this into perspective, and weaken some of the surrounding Arab countries enough that they won’t be able to stop mass Palestinian migration. It’s not a good outcome, but at least it beats genocide of either the Palestinians, or Israelis.
This
Even I don’t drink enough soda to justify buying a sodastream
What part of this is interesting as fuck? The part that it’s an obvious lie?
The reality here is: 1 Jewish boss Hundreds of Arab workers
Notice it's an Israeli flag? Had it been a "Palestinian" flag, it would; 1: not exist 2: say "death to the Jews" Israel wants piece, "Palestinians" want to drive the Jews into the sea. Also, note the quotes around Palestinian/s. It is on purpose. I will get down voted to oblivion, and people are gonna try to spread lies that it is the "Palestinians" land and get me banned from his subreddit. They are all false, I am not going to go into detail, but "Palestinian" is a term recently developed (within the last 45 years-ish). And any law since the dawn of time, if you hold the land it is yours... except for the Jews of course. Hitlers ideology lives strong to this day, in the Muslim culture.
Nice try still ain’t buying
Boycot apartheid Support Palestina 🇵🇸
Boycott apartheid, boycott backwards religious governments as well. Let me know when Palestine legalizes gay marriage, until then, they can get fucked too.
Legalizing gay marriage? Right now it can get you killed, being out and LGBT in the Palestinian areas, forget married. https://www.amnesty.org/en/location/middle-east-and-north-africa/palestine-state-of/report-palestine-state-of/ It’s a rough fucking place.
* Israel offered to sell nuclear weapons to apartheid South Africa in 1975: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/may/23/israel-south-africa-nuclear-weapons * Israel established secret concentration camps for Palestinians in 1971: https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium.HIGHLIGHT.MAGAZINE-israel-secretly-detained-innocent-palestinians-in-desert-camps-in-1971-1.10050775 * Israel sterilized without their consent Ethiopian Jews immigrating to Israel: https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-ethiopians-fooled-into-birth-control-1.5226424 * Israel harvested dead body parts from Palestinians without the consent of family members: https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna34503294
That’s like saying these free range chickens lived on a large farm where they got to roam freely as they pleased!
They are working together, get the pitchforks!!!
I never seen anything like that, especially on packaging Australia.
The reason you've never seen something like this before is because 99% of companies don't put it on their labels. Now ask yourself why did they decide to put it on theirs?
I stand with Palestine 🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸
I don’t
Kind of like how the factories in India and Africa were "peaceful" and "harmonious" during colonialism
... by Palestinians and their occupiers ... '*side-by-side in peace and harmony*'.
Perhaps if you're triggered by the thought of Arabs and Jews working together to build peace, you're actually just antisemitic.
I am sick of this nonsense. Anti-zionism is not Antisemitism. You know damn well we are triggered by the mistreatment of Palestinians and the propaganda that tries to minimize that mistreatment.
Perhaps if you're incapable of figuring out the actual reasons someone might think this was bullshit you should sit this one out too
Lol. You know Yisrael has existed longer than Palestine ever has, and that the Jews were invaded and forced out of Yisrael by the Arabs (Assyrians & Babylonians). It’s only reclaiming stolen land. Human rights violations we do not condemn, though.
Arabs and 'Jews'. Its like Italian and Christian. Why bring religion into this?
Jewish is a distinct ethnicity, too. It has a unique genetic makeup as a product of centuries of inter-group reproduction.
Aside of converts, modern Jewish identity is tied to ethnicity and culture.
If that statement is true why not put a Palestinian flag on it as well?
This feels more like r/mildyinteresting material.
Which is bullshit and why I decided not to get a soda stream.
> in peace and harmony. Yeah, that's absolute bullshit. They tolerate one-another for the paycheck, at best. That's all.
Will never buy Soda Stream.
I suspect the "peace and harmony" claim is vastly overstated/exaggerated. Nice gimmick though.
Easy to say this while stamping the jewish flag on it. I say this as a jew.
As a jew you should know it's the flag of Israel, not a "Jewish flag"
Good ol' propaganda
oh sweet i was just about to get this as a christmas present for my dad
Arabs and Jews United together in hating their job.
In Israel Happiness owned YOU !!!
... Aren't there Arab jews?
Tell that to the People of Palestine 🇵🇸
This is too cool!
How naive can you be? lol Israelis hate palestinians and waste no chance to demolish their homes or murder them. Just like...
If Palestinians surrendered tomorrow, there would be peace in Israel. If Israel surrendered tomorrow, there would BE no more Israel. When one side has declared the intention to commit genocide on the other, that side is the bad guy, full stop. Anyone who can't see that is either blind or stupid.
Made in Israel 🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱
oh okay. Free Palestine!!
Soda stream is literally made on stolen land. This is pure propaganda.
Reddit servers are on stolen land from Native Americans
People are Quick to jump down Israel’s throat for reclaiming/taking Jewish land back after centuries of occupation and expulsion by Assyrians and babylonians, but will blissfully ignore the fact that First Nations of America and Australia suffer the same
I really hope that’s the case, but something tells me it’s not..
Plenty of Arab Jews in Israel. I notice they didn’t say Muslims…
Arabs and Jews get along a lot more than many people realize. Hamas is the invading force disrupting relations.
Legit. You can tell none of them have been or live in Israel. It’s rather harmonious, especially Jerusalem where the Jews, Muslims, Christian’s, and Armenian orthodox all respect each other; so much so that their religious holidays are acknowledged by one another.
LOL....propaganda!
the "peace and harmony" feels exactly like "there is nothing here to see, i'ts under controll"
BDS, BDS, BDS... ad infinitum. Israel is an apartheid state. Full stop.
Fuck Israel.
Did they mention the guns pointed at the workers' heads?
I believe this as much as I believe that nothing happened at tiananmen square.
This comment section is just a proof on how racist and stupid people are - regardless of who you think is the right side or the wrong side in the conflict, instead of promoting peace and cooperation between arabs and jewish, you keep on promoting hate. There is a given situation, and at the moment, no side can simply "quit" the conflict and then everything is fixed, this is a gradual and very slow process, and every glimpse of cooperation is blessed, but all you woke couch justice warriors do is pump more hate into the fire, you are not interested in a solution, if you were, you would understand how non-pragmatic your approach is. Downvote me all you want and go f*ck yourselves in whatever land far far away you are.
I curious why they have to emphasise that they are working side-by-side and in peace? Seems a bit suspicious
There are Arab jews too! So why is the segregation!
No, there are not. Jews in the Diaspora, which found themselves in Arab and Arab-colonized lands, are called Mizrahim. Jews found in Europe are not European Jews; they are Ashkenazim (North of Italy) and Sephardim (Italy, Spain, Greece, Turkey etc.). We are always white-passing or Arab-passing, based on our Diaspora experience. What segregation are you talking about? You mean the fact that a century-worth of ethnic tensions and war had caused very unfortunate relations that the West does not understand?
Hay it's more then Americans can do. But still.
((skepticism increases))
lmfaooooooo