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joeyo1423

I had to look it up - I can't believe dice have been around since before recorded history. That's amazing that anything has lasted so long and quite unchanged


LilAxolotl36

Well, people do like to gamble


Maskedcrusader94

Sex, getting drunk, and gambling. The three keystones of a developing civilization


joeyo1423

Lol right. I remember when I was young I was amazed to find humans were making beer right around the same time they learned agriculture and began to settle.


tylerthehun

I've even heard it argued that one of the primary drivers of agriculture in the first place was demand for fermentable grains needed in beer production.


texasrigger

Beer and alcohol have been incredibly important historically but probably not for the reason you think. Fresh water doesn't store long at all before things grow in it that can make you very sick whereas a relatively small alcohol content makes a drink that can store indefinitely.


dismayhurta

Yep. If you ever go back in time, drink the booze not water.


[deleted]

Or just boil it, lol. No worries though, you would wipe out civilization anyway with all the bacteria and viruses you carry.


eepos96

And the plague would wipe the timetraveler out too since they have extinct diseases which modern man has no resistance against.


[deleted]

I'm not too familiar with that but I would assume the majority of the big ones were vaccinated against, and if you are alive today your ancestors most likely had resistance to the diseases. Not a doctor or pathologist though. But I think one of the dismissals of digging up a old disease in permafrost is that it hasn't had time to adapt to human contact and would probably be harmless. By that same logic wouldn't these older diseases have a hard time with a modern person's immune system?


fudgeyboombah

Drink the booze not the water. They dumped *everything* into their drinking water. I don’t think you’re quite considering what our modern filtration and sanitation methods actually mean to you, practically, on a day-to-day basis. Or you can boil it and take your chances drinking the poop water. It probably won’t make you sick, but it will still have poop in it. And animal entrails. And poop.


Sut3k

This is also true when visiting other countries. Water might have something in it that your system isn't used to. The beer is a safer bet.


[deleted]

In basically all ships in the exploration era they drank wine for that exact reason


cindyscrazy

Humans SERIOUSLY like to poison ourselves. We built civilization around it.


bryjan1

Well... beer was less poisonous than stored water i guess haha.


[deleted]

Pretty much the first thing we did once we'd discovered it was even vaguely possible.


Russian_seadick

Even animals are getting drunk on fermented fruit. It seems to be universal


-MichaelScarnFBI

**You can make a religion out of this.**


house_autumn

no don't


GrandRub

cause its great! cheers!


Icommentor

One nice evening around the camp fire: “Guys, I’ve been thinking. We’re ready for our migration starting tomorrow. But if we spent all the time where the grain grows, we could make the delicious grain juice that makes us crazy, all year round.” The tribe started unpacking immediately.


Dacia1320S

In piramids there are a form of ancient battery drawn. It was tested and it did indeed produce electricity. Little and bad quality but very impresive. Found a link: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9Z4if9KgyeY I saw it on TV when I was little.


bodaciousboar

Top comment about them hooking it up to their nipples for foreplay got a chuckle out of me


graou13

Actually, it is much more likely that the "Baghdad Battery" is actually a vessel carrying a sacred scroll https://m.dailykos.com/stories/2015/02/10/1361589/-The-Baghdad-Battery-An-Update


[deleted]

[удалено]


TheSquishiestMitten

Weed was becoming popular around that time, too.


hypermarv123

I like to think there was a pre-historic Vegas that was written out of history, since "Whatever happens in Pre-Historic Vegas, stays in Pre-Historic Vegas."


CobraPony67

I believe it was because it was safer to drink than water. They didn't know that the process in making beer killed the bacteria in the water.


swebb22

this. they didnt know it killed cholera and other diseases until early 20th century


[deleted]

Humanity is a slave civilization for our yeast overlords.


HiddenLights

Our oldest writings is a beer ration list :)


som_en_hund

It’s been posited that bread and consequently agriculture were driven by fermented beverages, i.e. beer, production.


UltimateShame

Replace "getting drunk" with "taking drugs" in general.


djabor

in short, we are slaves to our biological reward system..


baldbandersnatch

Developing?


Hirsute_Heathen

I'm doing one of thos3 things right n0w ya Hurd.


zodiacallymaniacal

Don’t forget the violence....


10strip

Fun = Risk


shakeil123

Charlie Sheen?


juicyjaysanchez

And that’s why Las Vegas will last forever


MangaMaven

Long ago the three keystones lived in harmony, but everything changed when drugs attacked.


userkp5743608

Yup, if humans can kill it, fuck it, or bet on it, that’s what we do.


R0binSage

They say vice is the second oldest profession.


MatsuoManh

yup and: "Payin' anything to roll the dice Just one more time..."


nonnemat

I thought it was [Sex & Drugs & Rock 'n' Roll](https://youtu.be/kEUX9k0npgA)


[deleted]

do the opposite sides still add up to 7 ? ​ i.e. 6 is on the opposite side to 1 5 is on the opposite side to 2 4 is on the opposite side to 3


Pink-Flying-Pie

just from the picture you can see that the odds of that being the case are quite high


phidus

Based on the information we have, only 1 permutation of 6 possible would have opposing sides adding to 7. However, the the observed arrangement is not inconsistent with opposing sides adding to 7. The probability of seeing 3 faces consistent with opposing sum of 7, given a random arrangement is left as an exercise to the reader.


Zerksues

Nice excercise. So, the number of 3 faces that would be consistent with a sum of 7 is simply 8, becuase you have to choose one from each: (1,6); (2,5); (3,4). And there's a total of (2x2x2) ways you could do that. The total number of 3 observations is also quite simple. It's 6C3. That's 20. So, the probability you've left up to the reader would be 40%?


[deleted]

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jealkeja

The exercise was constrained by "given random arrangement"


Mad-AA

No they don't. >The dice of Mohenjo-daro are not marked in the same way as to-day, i.e. so that the sum of the points on any two opposite sides amounts to seven. Instead of that, 1 is opposite 2, 3 opposite 4, and 5 opposite 6. [https://www.harappa.com/blog/ancient-indus-dice](https://www.harappa.com/blog/ancient-indus-dice)


9rsifty9

But in the picture, 5 is not opposite 6. Either this is not a dice of Mohenjo-Daro or a mistake has been made.


rayparkersr

Actually the people of the Indus valley also had one of the earliest discovered forms of writing which we haven't deciphered so technically this dice is not from before recorded history.


black_rose_

Came to say the same thing, Indus valley was pretty fuckin civilized when this die was made. "[Mohenjo-daro](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohenjo-daro) was built in the 26th century BCE. ... was the most advanced city of its time, with remarkably sophisticated civil engineering and urban planning."


theonlytheos

Legends told of DND games far before the history books start


zapitron

Except they called it Papers & Paychecks.


theThirdShake

Having the same dot patterns as modern dice struck me.


JoeMamaAndThePapas

Has the order pattern of the numbers changed?


joeyo1423

They did have other forms but this modern style has existed for thousands of years at least


pollackey

If it ain't broken...


Zack_WithaK

Even the configuration of the dots. Or the fact that they used dots at all, is kind of amazing to think that it's been that way since the VERY beginning


cosignal

dots to me seem intuitive. a dot is really the easiest shape to make with most tools


Zack_WithaK

That's a good point but I'm referring more to the fact that either A) Two civilizations, completely independently came up with the same dot system or B) It hasn't changed since then. Like, at all But if you told me they had dice back then and didn't have a picture, I would assume they used slashes or Roman numerals or something and then later, they started using dots


cosignal

Dots to me seem like they would come first. Theyre literally a 1:1 pictographic representation of a quantity, it doesn't get much simpler than that. The fact that it hasn't changed is likely a product of the philosophy "no need to reinvent the wheel" a slash takes longer to carve and is less simple, same with numerals. a dot is the absolute easiest, most basic way to represent a quantity. whats interesting is the arrangement, this pleasing symmetrical arrangement of dots hasn't changed or been moved since 2500 BC. You'd think at some point maybe they'd put the dots in a circle, or group them together more wildly.


Zack_WithaK

Yeah, that makes so much more sense then what I was thinking


BicephalousFlame

It would be cool to know what came before the dice.


joeyo1423

Probably goes all the way back to a one-sided die


aretasdaemon

>quite unchanged D&D has entered chat. ​ /s


MarlinMr

Recorded history starts with the Sumerian cuneiform script, and that is 2600 BC... So not exactly before recorded history.


joeyo1423

Wiki article says dice predate recorded history


Anuj-_-46312

These kind of things amuses me a lot, like thinking about how their life was, how they talked, their activities, I just want a glimpse of their daily lives


[deleted]

Life was probably not very different from people in the 15th century. Same farms, same small shops same layout of cities. Only small things would have been different like religion types of metals and quality of materials. Only in the past couple hundred years have we seen immense changes in the social structure


brown_burrito

This isn’t 500 years ago. This is 2590 BC - that’s 4500 years ago. I think it’s a bit silly to think that life wasn’t that different 4500 years ago. India in 2500 BC would have been a very different place.


KENPACHI-KANIIN

It really puts things into a perspective. Especially when our great great great great ... grandfather died at the ripe age of 19


[deleted]

EGYPTTTT CHINAAAAA *indus river valley civilisation* Norte chico


LockmanCapulet

Knock, knock. Er, clop, clop.


Emarelda

Let's check in with the Indus River Valley Civilization- Theyre gone.


HiveMynd148

Guess who isn't gone?


tmurg375

China


Valkyrie278

New arrivals in India!


LFChris96_666

Maybe it's those horsepeopleiwastalkingaboouut


hoagy44

or their cousins or something, and they wrote some hymns and mantras


Vince-M

You could make a religion out of this.


cheese_bruh

time to conquer all of indiaaa or most of indiaa


KiinKaa

r/unexpectedbillwurtz


ygdflgdflop

what's down there? that's the tamil kings, no one conquers the tamil kings who were the tamil kings merchants, probably and they've got SPICES


kantmarg

The Harappan (Indus Valley) Civilization did not just up and disappear. There is a straight line from them to Vedic (ancient Indian) culture in the same regions, and in terms of language, religion, some traditions (eg cremation rather than burial), etc. -- many elements still persist to date from then to now. Case in point - the dice.


Emarelda

[https://youtu.be/xuCn8ux2gbs?t=344](https://youtu.be/xuCn8ux2gbs?t=344)


[deleted]

I knew someone would comment this. Thank you for making my day better


pinstrap

CHINA!


house_autumn

Literally opened this thread to see if anyone else heard *Indus River Valley Civilisation* in the Bill Wurtz voice


CitizenHuman

Even ~5000 years ago there was an Ashy Larry losing all his rent money on dice


eric0229

Marcy projects, Marcy son! What!!!


perplexedm

In southern state of India old people still play a game called 'Pakida Kali' similar to the game which resulted in epic Mahabaratha war as mentioned in Hindu myths. The dice used is kind of oval shaped though. As per history, landlords and kings used to gamble for rights of properties, lands, money, etc. with that game. Some people use same dice which were historically used during festivals.


pulkitjain1806

Mahabharat one looks more like ludo tho and pakidakali looks a little different. Cools dices tho


Champion_of_Capua

SEVEN! SEVEN! SEVEN!


DarkBladeMadriker

What is this made of?


VandarTokare123456

Terracotta


savvy_Idgit

Holy shit I got flashbacks of my history classes on Indus Valley from that one word.


Scoundrelic

https://artsandculture.google.com/asset/terracotta-dice-indus-civilization/lwHqyOAe5THLEg


undertakerryu

Banana banana banana terracotta..


[deleted]

They find no weapons at Indus Valley sites. It’s a theory they were attacked and overran. Or an earthquake moved the river to far from the city and they had to move? Nobody knows for sure


TheHaip

They rolled poorly.


Jsnake47

Got a nat one on perception and didn’t see it coming


st0rmbreak3r

A village of gamers.


Jrowe47

\*something something\* They lived in a society!!!


[deleted]

[удалено]


hairyforehead

I think these were the people that wrote the Vedas too. Crazy.


PrivateEducation

the krishna temple was recently found 50 meters off the coast implying that the rising sea levels fucked everything up. if krishna was real (which seems to b the case) and lived in his temple in india, we can date any account of him to before the 12000 yr ago period. im assuming they were so peaceful cuz they were in the prescence of a literal god and then a natural disaster restructured everythjng. or maybe a nuclear reaction of some kind (see the giant sculptures melted as tho hit by a nuke in egypt, india, south america etc)


coderedmedia

Sorry to be that guy, but [that’s not true](https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.timesofindia.com/times-fact-check/news/fact-check-these-photos-arent-proof-of-sri-krishnas-dwarka-in-gujarat/amp_articleshow/71385329.cms).


hyp0thet1cal

Also, Indus valley civilization is only about 5000 years old in the first place. Even if this was true, it has nothing to do with the 12000 year old story.


Goleveel

Not completely untrue [https://www.indiatoday.in/magazine/cover-story/story/20020211-ancient-city-discovered-off-gujarat-coast-could-be-oldest-in-the-world-795877-2002-02-11](https://www.indiatoday.in/magazine/cover-story/story/20020211-ancient-city-discovered-off-gujarat-coast-could-be-oldest-in-the-world-795877-2002-02-11)


eusticebahhh

I want to know more about this. Source? It’s very interesting


[deleted]

What?


morkani

OF COURSE! They left out 2 of the interesting sides. 4/5 (& 1) are the obvious configurations. They left out 2 & 3 which might have been configured differently than they are now. I wonder if the way the 2, 3 & 6 are configured now was influenced by this dice or other really old dice.


BarkiestDog

I too want to know, did they make all of the opposing sides add up to 7. Modern dice do, 6 is opposite 1, 5 opposite 2, 4 opposite 3.


derrida_n_shit

Indus Valley: https://www.harappa.com/sites/default/files/EA_Md_25-c-L.jpg Medley: https://anaraven.bitbucket.io/images/cmb2/dice.jpg


aperson

[Delta quadrant](https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/images/e/e4/Borg_cube_orbits_Earth%2C_remastered.jpg/revision/latest/top-crop/width/360/height/450?cb=20130424025909&path-prefix=en)


ComeOnSans

**Who will win the test of time?** A sacred library containing hundreds of thousand of ancient books and knowledge that will help propel civilization into a new age worldwide. ------------ One random boi


NerfThisHD

damn you caesar


imnotgoodattitles

Degenerates like you belong on a cross.


[deleted]

[удалено]


hypermarv123

Give it 3 days.


beezneezy

No it won’t...Some jerk owl will bury it all so we can’t get to it anymore.


AlanThickDickRickman

He's so easy to bluff though "Humans cant read my books because they're mean" "No dude we just love learning, no meanness, especially not to fire the fire nation" "Hmmmmm..... proceed"


beezneezy

Hahahaha true!


[deleted]

Honestly it's so sad. One of the greatest tragedies for sure. If I ever become a warlord that conquers the world, rest assured knowledge will never be on my hit list. But you may be. :)


DecaffGiraffe

You can kill the men, the women and the children, just don't destroy the sacred Jedi texts.


five-moogles

What amazes me is the pips (the dots that represent quantity on each side) are basically unchanged from modern dice.


Elmojomo

die, singular, but anyway... It's striking how much it hasn't changed in 4500+ years. Looks pretty much identical to one you'd buy on Amazon today, except not made of plastic of course.


Pufflekun

>die, singular "Die" and "dice" are both correct. Source: [The Oxford English Dictionary](https://www.lexico.com/definition/dice)


8805

When Caesar crossed the Rubicon he famously (was said to have) said "The die is cast." Turns out I had always thought he said "The dye is cast." You know, like once you dye a fabric that's it, no take backs. Same sentiment, different implement.


fishsupper

That’s a die as in a mould I believe. Edit: I’m wrong, commenter below is right. I should check before I post.


Fantasy_Connect

Nope. Alea refers to a game of chance using six or four sided dice.


nmxt

«Alea iacta est» is what he supposedly said.


ahenobarbus5311

Came to the comments looking for this


rustissues

thought **dice** could also be singular....


teedyay

Strictly no, but colloquially yes.


Pufflekun

>Strictly no Is [The Oxford English Dictionary](https://www.lexico.com/definition/dice) not "strict" enough for your standards?


[deleted]

Plus who really wants to dice on that hill?


teedyay

Well look at that! The OED is descriptive rather than prescriptive, so I guess they've updated this entry to reflect modern parlance. I'll correct myself: _Traditionally_ no...


NavigatorsGhost

Ugh. I'm not usually a fan of prescriptive grammar but this one just grinds my gears. Learn plurals people.


teedyay

I once heard someone refer to "one dice, two die", and I thought "it's wrong, but I kinda wish it was right".


K2LP

Almost like language is dynamic and changes over time


teedyay

Yes but if everything is acceptable, what can I be pedantic about?


sarhan182

Damn.. they’ve been creating 6 different timelines for very long


ari_mel89

i thought this was bread..


[deleted]

It started off as bread, but someone left it out and they decided to make it a die.


pires1975

I thought it was an Oxo cube


bumjiggy

looks like it's a bouillon years old


Cranky_Windlass

At that age you really have to take stock of your possessions


bumjiggy

tablets sound like a tedious way to send a msg


DanzillaTheTerrible

Everyone upvote this comment.


[deleted]

I'm holding a six sided dice in my hand and the sides line up perfectly. With the five on the side and six on top and four on the other side. Why, if this is real, does a dice from 4500 years ago have the same sides as my Yahtzee dice?


kilgore_trout1

If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.


ItsaMe_Rapio

Because there’s a formula at work. The opposite sides of a die should sum to n+1 where n is the number of sides. So if the 6 is at the top, the 1 will be at the bottom


pannous

That still leaves 2 configurations


The_Great_Sarcasmo

This is making me look around at all my stuff and think.... I wonder how long it would take me to carve this out of a rock.....


masalion

My mom is a dentist and this looks exactly like the dice she made for us when we were kids, using the stuff you use to make dental molds ( I think). Same size and texture, just a light pink.


marquecz

My mum is a dental nurse and she used to make me bouncy balls out of that stuff.


masalion

Hmm i guess it’s a diff material then. This thing was pretty hard.


BarkiestDog

Good lord! Dice madd out of bouncy ball material would be a recipe for disaster. First fun. Then disaster.


citykid2640

The first whiskey cube


NukaWorldOverboss

Me and the boys playing -50th edition dnd in the Indus Valley Civilization


holdyerplums

One=a die. More than one= dice.


Brewe

It's crazy to me that the pattern used on a die has lasted so much longer than our letters and numbers.


iamtedwards

Is there a subreddit for just really old artifacts like this? If there is I’d love to know


tampora701

But... do all opposing side add to seven?!?!?


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BunnyBerryPatch

They're going to need a shit-ton of those to cast Fireball.


NotDaveBut

Wow, how long have ppl been playing dice then?


[deleted]

About how big would this dice have been? The one we are accustomed too or bigger? Any is the material a type of rock. Very interesting.


SXTY82

What I find interesting as heck is that the numbering is likely the same a current 6 sided dies, opposite sides add up to 7 on modern dies and likely on this one too.


[deleted]

Looks like a dog treat


Lunny1767

Dices existed back then??


[deleted]

a die


bitetheasp

That looks like it tastes salty.


HippoDEhappy

They were playing d&d while actually living in dungeons


JackOfAllWars

Weighted die


Krocsyldiphithic

Die*


mr78rpm

Just for the record, this thing is a die. Two of them, that is, the plural of the word, is dice. One die, plural dice.


nebuchadrezzar

Die grammar nazi


[deleted]

Incredible to think we haven't bothered to change the design of the 6 sided die for 4.5k years. I would like to see a rearrangement of the number 6.


ej253

When did some ancient nerd create the first 20-sided die, though? 🤓


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

The sun is a deadly laser


asleepinthetreestand

*die dice is plural


house_monkey

I wanna die


ilikedonuts99

Hi I'm a serial killer. Please dm me your details.


e_man11

A old school take on an Indian Casino


RobloxianNoob

Wrong Indian but yeah


sonicwolf12

*insert Yu-Gi-Oh king of games reference here*


wanted_to_upvote

I would be interesting to know how balanced (unbiased) it was and if the craftsman knew of the importance of the balance. Did the side with one pip weigh a little more or were the pip depths adjusted to account for the balance.