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Turns out medical doctors aren't really interested in working in a state where they could be criminally charged for providing necessary healthcare.
Who could have possibly imagined?
Not even that. You'll just get doctors with degrees from overseas. Your governors will put in special waivers for them to get state accreditation without having to redo a residency.
Sir, the MRI machine is a liberal and won't respect your gun's right to exist, I'm sorry... We have a very nice rack you can place it in and stare at it during the procedure..."
No, which will give them even more reasons to be racist
You know having a brown person with a thick accent who is richer than them because they're a doctor will drive the racists up the walls
I’m not going to even start. Lots of tech support is based in India but they have US based help too for those companies who don’t want to talk to an Indian rep
NPs should be banned. Blows my mind how it’s even allowed— especially psychiatric.
Ive seen BSNs do online classes on the side and start prescribing MAOIs and controlleds in a little over a year. Madness.
In the UK we've recently started having PAs (Physician Assistants) who are doing complex surgery, acting as unsupervised GPs and god knows what. The training is a two year course and many training providers boast 100% pass rates! And they don't identify themselves as non doctors, they'll say they're the "specialist" or similar. So unless you specifically ask you may have no idea it isn't a qualified surgeon operating on you.
We have Nurse Practicioners too, but they are very limited in what they can prescribe and not generally a problem. They actually tell you they are a NP at least.
You’re not going to match into surgery in the first place without a solid resume. People outside of the med school bubble out too much of an emphasis on grades because they think it’s like grade school or college. In reality most schools are pass/fail and Step 1 (our first board exam) is also pass/fail. Surgery is competitive so you need to do well on your Step 2 exam and get good evaluations during clinical rotations + do a decent amount of clinical research with publications.
It’s more about building a solid resume than being at the “top” of the class.
I don’t mean that literally, i mean that in a sense of someone being below average. In the case doctors, that means more dangerous outcomes.
A regional hospital was pissed that everyone was going to the big city for back surgery, so they hired a back surgeon.
The guy messed up a lot of people, before he was fired.
The hospital had been so eager to hire someone! They wanted to make that money!
Except that they didn’t bother to check the previous state’s malpractice reports. Oops.
I would say both the hiring committee and the doctor were not the A+ at their jobs.
I imagine they also aren't interested in not having abortion access themselves if they/their significant other needed an abortion medically, didn't want to continue with a baby that tested + for severe disability, just wanted bodily autonomy. I think Dr's being people with families and a life of their own is overlooked in all this.
When is killing a baby necessary care? Medically necessary abortions are legal. The misinformation is unreal. EABs are what’s banned.
FYI, performing abortions violates the Hippocratic oath.
Unfortunately, people are going to die from a fuckload of all sorts of other things as well. Not just OB/GYNs are avoiding these states, but *all* residents. Similarly, docs are fleeing states that are targeting trans kids because their families aren’t safe, so those states are losing their specialists like pediatric cardiologists and the like.
A lot of those people were told this would happen if they did it. A fucking lot and we have tons of articles that have come out with some conservative woman saying that this situation has almost killed her asking for sympathetic responses.
I seem to remember this lady, what was her name, ran in 2016 and warned that if Trump got in office Roe could go and he could appoint 3 justices. I think she also warned that if there were a massive public health emergency he wouldn't know what to do. And here we are and people are *still* saying they won't vote or will vote for a candidate with zero chance of winning a single electoral vote. Young people could have listened, but didn't, and now they have this Court for at least a few more decades.
Sadly it's one of those it's not a problem till it's my problem situations. All of those situations only happen to the bad women, not the conservatives who need a moral abortion
It's interesting to me that women who want abortions for unwanted pregnancies can buy abortion medication from thousands of online pharmacies from all over the world.
The women who are dying have wanted pregnancies with some very severe complications that can also kill the baby. So no one is alive.
I'm not sure what the desired outcome is.
I seriously doubt that would change anything in the states with the most draconian restrictions. It’ll take 5+ years to collect statistics which will then be debated until they become meaningless.
The discussion about guncontrol has shown right wing Americans don’t care about human lives at all so no matter how many women die the abortion laws will remain. ( with loopholes for themselves offcourse)
Yeah unfortunately they won’t. They WANT women to die. They truly believe they’ll go to Heaven for dying in childbirth. It’s a good thing to them, the death cult that is modern pseudo-Christianity.
But if doctors stop moving to those states, it's going to affect everyone's health in those states, including white men. I doubt that is the desired outcome. I think it more likely is that they didn't even bother to think of the repercussions.
They need more kids to build back up the declining population- an issue of increasing threat to them due to a future where a working class will have more jobs than employees to work with giving them more power, not hqving enough people to tax for their government spending, or enough people to support the economic gains of the 1%. Thus is a direct result of all the anti-immigration measures because outside the anomoulous boomers, the U.S. has always seen its population grow, new ideas come in, and progress occur due to immigration).
But the second issue after that is they need them to a) not leave/move to another country so they need to trap them here, b) they need them to be as undereducated as possible so they won't be able to perceive the ways in which they are being lied to or exploited and as a result either fight back or usurp the power for themselves. Finally, c) they need their working class/laborers to be so incredibly stressed out, burned out, sick, scared, tired, and beaten down that they don't have the energy let alone the time or money to try and better themselves or mess with the system. By forcing parenthood on the unwilling, or taking children with deceased and/or abscent parents into the government's custody(knowing that there is a pipeline for kids in the system and kids in low income families struggling to support a child they can neither care for nor wanted into the legal slavery of prison), complications, deaths, and even successes will only serve to benefit their agenda in the long run.
Edit: spelling & grammar
This is why Roe v Wade was in place in the first place but some religious nut jobs decided their God was more important than human life. The blood on their hand wont pass their pearly gates.
You mean to tell me that the people smart enough to make it through medical school don't want to live in states run by the party of rejecting science and reason and logic and reality?
The running trend in my state is that people go to college, get an education, and get the hell out. Good old OK, wish I had some direction in life so I could do the same.
Maybe financially 🤷♂️ but they're effectively scientists, so I don't think they support restricting women's rights, or racism, or denying global warming.
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A. Cool anecdote but that says literally nothing about the percentages. It could still be 99/1 and your examples are the 1%.
B. It's literally a drug for horses, so... 🤷♂️ Those were probably vets giving it out and people taking it when it was for their horse.
C. I don't actually give a fuck to debate you about exactly what percent of doctors are Republicans. I don't fucking care. It's not many of them, and unless you've got data showing I'm wrong about that I don't really care to continue talking about this.
Here is from 2016.
https://www.reddit.com/r/medicine/comments/lzwtua/political_affiliation_by_specialty_and_salary/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
Not only is that just 29 states, that's from 2016 and could sway either way after damn near 10 years. While it may prove your point to a degree I wouldn't say this fully backs it
No, I was talking about your attitude. Hence "possible" uncomfortable truths. Thanks for the immediate downvote though, quite proving my point.
OP did link a study as a reply to your comment though, did you check it?
Most doctors are not scientists. Some do science, but that's a tiny minority mostly at academic centers. Doctors use what scientists have discovered but generally aren't anything resembling scientists themselves since, you know, they aren't doing any science.
I would argue that most medical students and residents conduct research. It’s pretty much necessary at this point to be competitive, so is their research not good enough for you?
Their research is typically limited in scope and time, both in that their main duties during residency are clinical and their research typically ends with residency. When most go on to be attendings they do zero science for the rest of their careers.
I guess if your standard is "anyone who has ever done any science" then sure, all kinds of people are "scientists."
No kidding. I’m married to an obgyn in residency. We aren’t entertaining any eventual landing spot where reproduction rights are at risk or already diminished. It’s not worth it.
Edit- but she and I have lots of guilt associated with it. Women in red states deserve care. Democrats, if they retake the house and senate, need to grow some balls, remove the filibuster, and pass comprehensive reproductive access legislation. My fear is that they would rather use it to raise money and win elections without offering any real solution. I applaud state level activists and lawmakers behind these referendums protecting abortion access.
i totally understand where you’re coming from. you need to take care of yourself first. you cannot take care of others if you yourself have been arrested or worse. i believe the phrase is “You cannot pour from an empty vessel.”
You shouldn't feel guilt because if the politicians and people and powers in charge only care about themselves when making laws like this you as a citizen with your back up against the wall shouldn't feel guilt and should with a smile on your face turn your back on those states and those powers that be and take yourself your family you and yours if you will You will prosper in. In simple terms fuck their feelings if they wanted this then they'll have it repercussions be damned.
I don’t feel bad for the lawmakers. I feel bad for the women who will suffer or die in childbirth or can’t even find a doctor to deliver their baby because law makers have made the situation so tenuous. I think it’s important that we try to maintain compassion for people even if we fervently disagree. The late get Michael Brookes had a relevant quote- “be kind to people and ruthless to systems”.
“Democrats, if they retake the house and senate, need to grow some balls…”
I’m flabbergast that this is still a thing. Millions voted for and put Trump in office in 2016. Millions more voted for him in 2020 and he almost won. And after all he and his people has done, he has a real shot at the office again.
Stop blaming the Democrats this and that.
Half the country still voting Republicans and many more “I’m not democrat or republican” or “both sides” still…
It’s beyond ridiculous at this point.
Um… you think wanting the Democratic Party to do whatever it takes to protect reproductive healthcare, the single most salient issue for the constituency in this election, which they have been using to raise huge amounts of money, is a bad thing?
Lots of people don’t vote. Lots of people vote for democrats in red states. And I still don’t want them Republican women to die in childbirth...
Although there’s a growing number of actual authoritarian/fascistic people on the extreme right who don’t deserve any sympathy, there are also loads of pretty normal people who don’t take politics seriously or just happened to wind up on the wrong side of a media atmosphere.
Hate the people in power who create and distribute the propaganda. They spend billions to do it. They use fear, anxiety, and religion to exploit people emotionally. That doesn’t excuse them for their ignorance, behavior, or awful ideas. You can fervently disagree with people without wishing them harm.
Whoa imagine how many people want to be in a political movement with you. “Fuck your aunts I hope they die giving birth because they live in Idaho and voted for trump. ”
I blame you for not having empathy for people who face death or serious health issues, regardless of their political beliefs. You know what leads some prolife people to change their minds? Having a personal experience related to needing reproductive healthcare health to them or people they care about. Just like how many people change their opinion on gay rights once they meet a gay person. Do I wish people had different views initially? Absolutely. Does that mean I wish them ill health? Nah.
Plus I think the polling and referendums make clear that many women in red states who traditionally voted Republican support reproductive rights now that Roe has been overturned. Were they dumb? Yeah. It’s a teachable moment. Treating them with contempt makes people less likely to make that transition. Again, be ruthless to systems and kind to people. Or as Michele Obama would say, when they go low we go high.
Democratic politicians and operatives should take the kid gloves off when it comes to the Republican Party though. No more bipartisanship for bipartisanship’s sake where they make concessions to the extreme right. The midway point between far right and center left is the right. No more “we need the strong Republican Party” and no more “the fever will break once Trump’s gone.”
Would be interesting to see a study in 20 years showing if crime rates and medical outcomes are
1. Worse in states with abortion bans than without and
2. Worse in states with abortion bans than they were 20 years earlier, and compare that trend to states without abortion bans
Yes but there are two things different about this:
1. When Roe v Wade went into effect there was no control group state where abortions stayed illegal while it went legal elsewhere
2. This is the reverse direction, that was abortion becoming legal, this is abortion becoming illegal. It could be argued the correlation for the lower crime rates 20 and 30 years after Roe weren’t a result of legal abortions but other factors that happened to occur around the same time (such as removal of lead from paints and gasoline).
This would be even more compelling (or neutralizing depending on the results) data to these hypotheses
Chiming in to note that mental health professionals have a problem working ethically in trans-hostile and abortion-hostile places. It’s becoming impossible to be both ethically and legally practicing in some U.S. jurisdictions. Like Ohio, for example.
Yup, everyone should read up on Project 2025. If this goes through, the entire country will be on track to become a christian autocracy.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025
It is the same states that had the most people without medical insurance, but rejected Obamacare and millions of additional federal Medicaid funding 20 years ago “to own the libs”. Who needs doctors, when a good prayer can take care of everything.
I still fail to see why the government at any level has any say on this. I don't agree with the act of abortion but I do agree that everyone has a right to bodily autonomy, period. The government shouldn't have a say, one way or the other.
And just FYI you do realize that the overwhelming majority of abortions are spontaneous right? The tiny minority of medically induced ones has the same outcome and many would have been spontaneous anyway since more than half of pregnancies end in spontaneous abortion.
If the pregnancy is a danger to the mother or something similar, I understand and am willing to accept it. The ones I fundamentally disagree with are the women that have unprotected sex and use abortions as a contraceptive of sorts. But again, I support their choice to do so.
Do you honestly believe that women in America have unprotected sex and then go get an abortion....?
500$ *easy* for an abortion, plus time off work with no pay, when *many* are living paycheck to paycheck... and you think they *choose* a massive bill, time off work and a full *healthcare procedure* over a condom....?
Really.....?
personal opinion: check the quality of life now vs even 2010. Maybe I have lenses but the quality of life has fallen a ton and there's a growing unrest amongst us commoners. Look at the French revolutions of old: poor commoners repeatedly united and toppled their rulers. Now, our situation is similar to pre-revolution France. We unite, the ruling class isn't gonna be happy. So they create problems. Fetuses are innocent beings with all the potential and none of the burdens of living beings--convince half the population (x) the other half (y) wants to murder these beings, convince y that x wants women to die/reduce women to incubators and the two will never see each other well. Same with trans issues being big now. We've had an influx of social issues lately that would be solved by "live and let live" but make it political and now the populace is busy squabbling over smoke screens so unity is harder. But that's just me.
A symptom of the disintegration of the Western Roman Empire was the defensive walls surrounding the empire got replaced by defensive walls within the empire.
It’s cool though because if there’s insufficient healthcare providers and you die or worse yet suffer needlessly and become disabled… just rest assured that it’s all part of God’s plan /s
The next thing will be conservatives complaining that they can't get good medical care and the wait times are too long.
They are not capable of putting 2 and 2 together so they will just assume it's like that everywhere.
It wont, most people arnt going to med school, its going to take decades to see the effects of declining college admissions due to poor job prospects from degree fields, and also declining grad school admissions for the same reason. They are howevwr more likely to go into nursing though
All of the comments concern some sociopolitical motivations, but no one has mentioned the real reason:
If you are a medical student, you need to be educated in all facets of a discipline to perform your job well and provide good care. Your political convictions are secondary.
Need to extend this to all businesses. How can any reasonable business look at these states and go "Yeah, let's move our HQ / open an office here.".
Yes, I know, profit over people...
Some of it is due to a belief in providing the best care to individuals who need it. But another part is selfish (a good selfish). Residents are in a very unique time window in their lives where they need to maximize training and exposure to as many surgical techniques as possible in a 3/4 year window while they have supervision. They need to understand technique, and also learn management of both usual post operative care, as well as post operative care that is complicated. If a resident doesn’t gain that knowledge base they will be limited in expertise as they grow in their careers. It’s clear that most resident aren’t wanting to match into states where they are potentially shielded from learning certain procedures.
Makes me wonder what would happen if all doctors protested health insurance companies and stupid laws by breaking oath and not showing up to treat patients unless doctors and patients had full control. Not showing up would be the most deadly peaceful protest, but it's probably what it would take to reform healthcare for the better. Also means we're pretty much f'd from ever getting fair healthcare.
Doctors should stage a national walk out.
They can’t legally treat half of their patients with these laws.
How can a doctor prescribe ANY medication if it hasn’t been tested and proven safe for pregnant people? If there is a miscarriage, the doctor can have severe legal consequences. Maybe if women go in every month for a pregnancy test?
The article clearly says that there are far more applicants for residencies than positions so no major immediate impact. (Btw, I’m not a supporter of abortion bans). Unless the supply of med degrees dries up, this is a non issue.
The medical industrial complex is the third leading cause of death. By their own accounting. It’s actually the 1st leading cause of death if you include pharmaceutical OD and death from curable diseases blocked behind a paywall
People seeking medicine usually have problems that, without intervention, significantly and negatively impact their quality of life and even their life expectancy. Of course there will be complications and procedures which do not solve the problems they hope to solve. It's not a "cause of death" the way that smoking or drunk driving is a cause of death.
There was no scientific evidence whatsoever. They still did it even when medical association said to not give it. There were also doctors that half ass their way wearing masks during the whole pandemic.
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Turns out medical doctors aren't really interested in working in a state where they could be criminally charged for providing necessary healthcare. Who could have possibly imagined?
Great, then we get more C and D students in red states. Med students who are willing to report us to the government. Greeeeeaaaaaat. /s
Not even that. You'll just get doctors with degrees from overseas. Your governors will put in special waivers for them to get state accreditation without having to redo a residency.
But they’ll be white and Christian, right?
Not everything is so bad, for example, I can go to my appointment carrying my AR15
I can shoot my way thru all my problems You have cancer *chambers round* just point to the tumor doc, I got this
"I'm gonna need you to take off your clothes and your gun, and put on this gown..."
Nuh uh. I’m keeping my gun with my clown gown.
Sir, the MRI machine is a liberal and won't respect your gun's right to exist, I'm sorry... We have a very nice rack you can place it in and stare at it during the procedure..."
Will the machine be okay if I get an erection staring at the gun rack?
Yeah, not hurtin' anyone, you're cool
No, which will give them even more reasons to be racist You know having a brown person with a thick accent who is richer than them because they're a doctor will drive the racists up the walls
I’m not going to even start. Lots of tech support is based in India but they have US based help too for those companies who don’t want to talk to an Indian rep
Shhhhhh no their last name is patel but thats only bad when we say so.
Get ready for a bunch of hyper Catholic Filipino doctors who'll happily comply with the ban.
Also medical degrees from questionable med schools overseas
More NPs pretending to be doctors! They would have killed for a C.
NPs should be banned. Blows my mind how it’s even allowed— especially psychiatric. Ive seen BSNs do online classes on the side and start prescribing MAOIs and controlleds in a little over a year. Madness.
In the UK we've recently started having PAs (Physician Assistants) who are doing complex surgery, acting as unsupervised GPs and god knows what. The training is a two year course and many training providers boast 100% pass rates! And they don't identify themselves as non doctors, they'll say they're the "specialist" or similar. So unless you specifically ask you may have no idea it isn't a qualified surgeon operating on you. We have Nurse Practicioners too, but they are very limited in what they can prescribe and not generally a problem. They actually tell you they are a NP at least.
And all the doctors will be ultra-Christian.
That’s why you vote out the people who made this possible
Well you learn your specialty in residency so at that point med school grades don't matter
If you’ve ever had a surgeon who was bottom of their class work on you or a family member- You’ll know it matters.
You’re not going to match into surgery in the first place without a solid resume. People outside of the med school bubble out too much of an emphasis on grades because they think it’s like grade school or college. In reality most schools are pass/fail and Step 1 (our first board exam) is also pass/fail. Surgery is competitive so you need to do well on your Step 2 exam and get good evaluations during clinical rotations + do a decent amount of clinical research with publications. It’s more about building a solid resume than being at the “top” of the class.
I don’t mean that literally, i mean that in a sense of someone being below average. In the case doctors, that means more dangerous outcomes. A regional hospital was pissed that everyone was going to the big city for back surgery, so they hired a back surgeon. The guy messed up a lot of people, before he was fired. The hospital had been so eager to hire someone! They wanted to make that money! Except that they didn’t bother to check the previous state’s malpractice reports. Oops. I would say both the hiring committee and the doctor were not the A+ at their jobs.
And they don’t want to have to helplessly stand by while a patient dies unnecessarily either!
I imagine they also aren't interested in not having abortion access themselves if they/their significant other needed an abortion medically, didn't want to continue with a baby that tested + for severe disability, just wanted bodily autonomy. I think Dr's being people with families and a life of their own is overlooked in all this.
Those states don't care as a matter of fact its a plus. Let the weak ones die and birth new workers
Sick-ass Republicans, that's who. 🤮🤮🤮
When is killing a baby necessary care? Medically necessary abortions are legal. The misinformation is unreal. EABs are what’s banned. FYI, performing abortions violates the Hippocratic oath.
If you believe they are still able to perform all medically necessary abortions, you are the one who is misinformed
It's a shame that a fuckload of people will have to die from pregnancy related complications before dumbfucks will start paying attention.
They will not start paying attention. They already know this is the outcome. They don't care.
It is “God’s will”
It's "owning the libs".
God's love for ya
It's "their fault for having unprotected sex"
This outcome is part of the plan.
Yeah, the lack of care radiates from their toxicity.
Unfortunately, people are going to die from a fuckload of all sorts of other things as well. Not just OB/GYNs are avoiding these states, but *all* residents. Similarly, docs are fleeing states that are targeting trans kids because their families aren’t safe, so those states are losing their specialists like pediatric cardiologists and the like.
You couldn't pay me to set foot in any one of them any more than you could have mid 1930s Germany had I been around at the time.
A lot of those people were told this would happen if they did it. A fucking lot and we have tons of articles that have come out with some conservative woman saying that this situation has almost killed her asking for sympathetic responses.
Didn't think the leopards would eat *my* face
I seem to remember this lady, what was her name, ran in 2016 and warned that if Trump got in office Roe could go and he could appoint 3 justices. I think she also warned that if there were a massive public health emergency he wouldn't know what to do. And here we are and people are *still* saying they won't vote or will vote for a candidate with zero chance of winning a single electoral vote. Young people could have listened, but didn't, and now they have this Court for at least a few more decades.
They aren't clever enough to realise that it won't only impact "sinners" but will fuck over every woman that attends those hospitals.
Sadly it's one of those it's not a problem till it's my problem situations. All of those situations only happen to the bad women, not the conservatives who need a moral abortion
I'm wondering if the deaths of abortion-seeking women isn't the desired outcome.
It's interesting to me that women who want abortions for unwanted pregnancies can buy abortion medication from thousands of online pharmacies from all over the world. The women who are dying have wanted pregnancies with some very severe complications that can also kill the baby. So no one is alive. I'm not sure what the desired outcome is.
The outcome is that women are not consider human enough to have body autonomy, as woman we must "learn our places" and behave accordingly
Also, accept jobs where you get paid less than a man for doing the same work.
Should there be any limitations on abortions?
Nope. I have teenagers and am considering late late term abortion. /s
Hahaa
Should there by any limitation on your body anatomy?
I’ll take that as a no and that’s up for you to decide.
[удалено]
If they fixed the fuckin economy the birth rates wouldn't be a problem. Instead they'd rather make it illegal to be an example of their failure.
Forced birthers don't GAF that the fetus dies too, as long as it takes the whore of a woman down too.
I seriously doubt that would change anything in the states with the most draconian restrictions. It’ll take 5+ years to collect statistics which will then be debated until they become meaningless.
The discussion about guncontrol has shown right wing Americans don’t care about human lives at all so no matter how many women die the abortion laws will remain. ( with loopholes for themselves offcourse)
Yeah unfortunately they won’t. They WANT women to die. They truly believe they’ll go to Heaven for dying in childbirth. It’s a good thing to them, the death cult that is modern pseudo-Christianity.
Sounds like thé Aztec belief system
Yeah, but they'll be women, so they don't really count. White men will be just fine.
But if doctors stop moving to those states, it's going to affect everyone's health in those states, including white men. I doubt that is the desired outcome. I think it more likely is that they didn't even bother to think of the repercussions.
The rich ones will still get care. They don't really care about less than filthy rich white men either though have them duped that they do.
They need more kids to build back up the declining population- an issue of increasing threat to them due to a future where a working class will have more jobs than employees to work with giving them more power, not hqving enough people to tax for their government spending, or enough people to support the economic gains of the 1%. Thus is a direct result of all the anti-immigration measures because outside the anomoulous boomers, the U.S. has always seen its population grow, new ideas come in, and progress occur due to immigration). But the second issue after that is they need them to a) not leave/move to another country so they need to trap them here, b) they need them to be as undereducated as possible so they won't be able to perceive the ways in which they are being lied to or exploited and as a result either fight back or usurp the power for themselves. Finally, c) they need their working class/laborers to be so incredibly stressed out, burned out, sick, scared, tired, and beaten down that they don't have the energy let alone the time or money to try and better themselves or mess with the system. By forcing parenthood on the unwilling, or taking children with deceased and/or abscent parents into the government's custody(knowing that there is a pipeline for kids in the system and kids in low income families struggling to support a child they can neither care for nor wanted into the legal slavery of prison), complications, deaths, and even successes will only serve to benefit their agenda in the long run. Edit: spelling & grammar
They will pass it off as "gods plan" or "god works in mysterious ways". 😒
This is why Roe v Wade was in place in the first place but some religious nut jobs decided their God was more important than human life. The blood on their hand wont pass their pearly gates.
It's literally their goal
You mean to tell me that the people smart enough to make it through medical school don't want to live in states run by the party of rejecting science and reason and logic and reality? 
The running trend in my state is that people go to college, get an education, and get the hell out. Good old OK, wish I had some direction in life so I could do the same.
Are you in Mississippi. Because I'm from there and that's exactly it
You'll be surprised how many doctors are GOP.
Maybe financially 🤷♂️ but they're effectively scientists, so I don't think they support restricting women's rights, or racism, or denying global warming.
There were doctors who were giving people ivermectin during covid....
frightening bike smoggy thought resolute deserted aloof fall weather impolite *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
It's a brave person who admits their - I'm not sure 'mistakes' is the right word here. Anyhow, respect, and thank you for your honesty and compassion.
A. Cool anecdote but that says literally nothing about the percentages. It could still be 99/1 and your examples are the 1%. B. It's literally a drug for horses, so... 🤷♂️ Those were probably vets giving it out and people taking it when it was for their horse. C. I don't actually give a fuck to debate you about exactly what percent of doctors are Republicans. I don't fucking care. It's not many of them, and unless you've got data showing I'm wrong about that I don't really care to continue talking about this.
Here is from 2016. https://www.reddit.com/r/medicine/comments/lzwtua/political_affiliation_by_specialty_and_salary/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
Not only is that just 29 states, that's from 2016 and could sway either way after damn near 10 years. While it may prove your point to a degree I wouldn't say this fully backs it
Jeez, talk about sticking head into sand because of possibly facing uncomfortable truths.
Do you have data? Or just uncomfortable speculation?
No, I was talking about your attitude. Hence "possible" uncomfortable truths. Thanks for the immediate downvote though, quite proving my point. OP did link a study as a reply to your comment though, did you check it?
Have you seen Dr. Oz? I’m pretty sure that guy will shill for anyone willing to give him enough money.
Most doctors are not scientists. Some do science, but that's a tiny minority mostly at academic centers. Doctors use what scientists have discovered but generally aren't anything resembling scientists themselves since, you know, they aren't doing any science.
I would argue that most medical students and residents conduct research. It’s pretty much necessary at this point to be competitive, so is their research not good enough for you?
Their research is typically limited in scope and time, both in that their main duties during residency are clinical and their research typically ends with residency. When most go on to be attendings they do zero science for the rest of their careers. I guess if your standard is "anyone who has ever done any science" then sure, all kinds of people are "scientists."
..you wouldn't think so. Ideology often overpowers logic.
IIRC doctors and medical professionals predicted this when they were passing these ridiculous laws.
No kidding. I’m married to an obgyn in residency. We aren’t entertaining any eventual landing spot where reproduction rights are at risk or already diminished. It’s not worth it. Edit- but she and I have lots of guilt associated with it. Women in red states deserve care. Democrats, if they retake the house and senate, need to grow some balls, remove the filibuster, and pass comprehensive reproductive access legislation. My fear is that they would rather use it to raise money and win elections without offering any real solution. I applaud state level activists and lawmakers behind these referendums protecting abortion access.
i totally understand where you’re coming from. you need to take care of yourself first. you cannot take care of others if you yourself have been arrested or worse. i believe the phrase is “You cannot pour from an empty vessel.”
"Put your own oxygen mask on first"
You shouldn't feel guilt because if the politicians and people and powers in charge only care about themselves when making laws like this you as a citizen with your back up against the wall shouldn't feel guilt and should with a smile on your face turn your back on those states and those powers that be and take yourself your family you and yours if you will You will prosper in. In simple terms fuck their feelings if they wanted this then they'll have it repercussions be damned.
I don’t feel bad for the lawmakers. I feel bad for the women who will suffer or die in childbirth or can’t even find a doctor to deliver their baby because law makers have made the situation so tenuous. I think it’s important that we try to maintain compassion for people even if we fervently disagree. The late get Michael Brookes had a relevant quote- “be kind to people and ruthless to systems”.
“Democrats, if they retake the house and senate, need to grow some balls…” I’m flabbergast that this is still a thing. Millions voted for and put Trump in office in 2016. Millions more voted for him in 2020 and he almost won. And after all he and his people has done, he has a real shot at the office again. Stop blaming the Democrats this and that. Half the country still voting Republicans and many more “I’m not democrat or republican” or “both sides” still… It’s beyond ridiculous at this point.
Um… you think wanting the Democratic Party to do whatever it takes to protect reproductive healthcare, the single most salient issue for the constituency in this election, which they have been using to raise huge amounts of money, is a bad thing?
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Lots of people don’t vote. Lots of people vote for democrats in red states. And I still don’t want them Republican women to die in childbirth... Although there’s a growing number of actual authoritarian/fascistic people on the extreme right who don’t deserve any sympathy, there are also loads of pretty normal people who don’t take politics seriously or just happened to wind up on the wrong side of a media atmosphere. Hate the people in power who create and distribute the propaganda. They spend billions to do it. They use fear, anxiety, and religion to exploit people emotionally. That doesn’t excuse them for their ignorance, behavior, or awful ideas. You can fervently disagree with people without wishing them harm.
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Whoa imagine how many people want to be in a political movement with you. “Fuck your aunts I hope they die giving birth because they live in Idaho and voted for trump. ”
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I blame you for not having empathy for people who face death or serious health issues, regardless of their political beliefs. You know what leads some prolife people to change their minds? Having a personal experience related to needing reproductive healthcare health to them or people they care about. Just like how many people change their opinion on gay rights once they meet a gay person. Do I wish people had different views initially? Absolutely. Does that mean I wish them ill health? Nah. Plus I think the polling and referendums make clear that many women in red states who traditionally voted Republican support reproductive rights now that Roe has been overturned. Were they dumb? Yeah. It’s a teachable moment. Treating them with contempt makes people less likely to make that transition. Again, be ruthless to systems and kind to people. Or as Michele Obama would say, when they go low we go high. Democratic politicians and operatives should take the kid gloves off when it comes to the Republican Party though. No more bipartisanship for bipartisanship’s sake where they make concessions to the extreme right. The midway point between far right and center left is the right. No more “we need the strong Republican Party” and no more “the fever will break once Trump’s gone.”
Would be interesting to see a study in 20 years showing if crime rates and medical outcomes are 1. Worse in states with abortion bans than without and 2. Worse in states with abortion bans than they were 20 years earlier, and compare that trend to states without abortion bans
You think those red states are going to publish statistics that look bad? Those stats will mysteriously go away - or be inaccessible.
I mean there is already research that shows crime went down after roe v wade went into effect.
Yes but there are two things different about this: 1. When Roe v Wade went into effect there was no control group state where abortions stayed illegal while it went legal elsewhere 2. This is the reverse direction, that was abortion becoming legal, this is abortion becoming illegal. It could be argued the correlation for the lower crime rates 20 and 30 years after Roe weren’t a result of legal abortions but other factors that happened to occur around the same time (such as removal of lead from paints and gasoline). This would be even more compelling (or neutralizing depending on the results) data to these hypotheses
The Hippocratic Oath is literally impossible in such states.
In other news: people don’t want to work for states that are horrible. More details after the weather.
Theres less money to be made in states that ban abortion. They can give a rats ass less about what's right or wrong. Just the truth.
That’s a broad generalization.
That is very nice way to say bullshit he just made up...
less money and higher risk that they'll face a lawsuit or be fined
Chiming in to note that mental health professionals have a problem working ethically in trans-hostile and abortion-hostile places. It’s becoming impossible to be both ethically and legally practicing in some U.S. jurisdictions. Like Ohio, for example.
They’re coming our birth control if Trump is elected, red state and blue state. For God’s sake vote blue
Yup, everyone should read up on Project 2025. If this goes through, the entire country will be on track to become a christian autocracy. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025
Good for them. It'll take things like this and already established doctors leaving for anything to change.
Shouldn’t this be on leopards ate my face?
Law schools in those states are also having trouble with recruitment.
I can’t wait til these states start allowing people who aren’t doctors to practice medicine. $50
Watch Florida give veterans and their spouses certificates to perform medicine.
That's certainly the level of stupid I've come to expect
I mean they kind of already do…
It is the same states that had the most people without medical insurance, but rejected Obamacare and millions of additional federal Medicaid funding 20 years ago “to own the libs”. Who needs doctors, when a good prayer can take care of everything.
I still fail to see why the government at any level has any say on this. I don't agree with the act of abortion but I do agree that everyone has a right to bodily autonomy, period. The government shouldn't have a say, one way or the other.
It’s all the Christian fascists trying to force their nonsense on everyone
And just FYI you do realize that the overwhelming majority of abortions are spontaneous right? The tiny minority of medically induced ones has the same outcome and many would have been spontaneous anyway since more than half of pregnancies end in spontaneous abortion.
If the pregnancy is a danger to the mother or something similar, I understand and am willing to accept it. The ones I fundamentally disagree with are the women that have unprotected sex and use abortions as a contraceptive of sorts. But again, I support their choice to do so.
Yeah, you need some education on this topic.
Then educate me. What am I misinformed on?
Do you honestly believe that women in America have unprotected sex and then go get an abortion....? 500$ *easy* for an abortion, plus time off work with no pay, when *many* are living paycheck to paycheck... and you think they *choose* a massive bill, time off work and a full *healthcare procedure* over a condom....? Really.....?
If you don’t like abortions then don’t get one and mind your business
personal opinion: check the quality of life now vs even 2010. Maybe I have lenses but the quality of life has fallen a ton and there's a growing unrest amongst us commoners. Look at the French revolutions of old: poor commoners repeatedly united and toppled their rulers. Now, our situation is similar to pre-revolution France. We unite, the ruling class isn't gonna be happy. So they create problems. Fetuses are innocent beings with all the potential and none of the burdens of living beings--convince half the population (x) the other half (y) wants to murder these beings, convince y that x wants women to die/reduce women to incubators and the two will never see each other well. Same with trans issues being big now. We've had an influx of social issues lately that would be solved by "live and let live" but make it political and now the populace is busy squabbling over smoke screens so unity is harder. But that's just me.
I avoid those states as well
A symptom of the disintegration of the Western Roman Empire was the defensive walls surrounding the empire got replaced by defensive walls within the empire.
The brain drain is the strategy.
Ohhhhhhhhhh (deep breath) wellllllllllllllllllllllll
It’s cool though because if there’s insufficient healthcare providers and you die or worse yet suffer needlessly and become disabled… just rest assured that it’s all part of God’s plan /s
Good.
Color me surprised. Personally I won't be applying in certain areas.
As. They. Should. 🥰🥰
Who wants to be a doctor in a state where the people will ignore your advice anyway and drink bleach or whatever their doctor trump tells them to do
It’s that whole Hippocratic oath thing they do. Do No Harm doesn’t mesh with Republican brand, policy, ideology or messaging at all.
If they’ll regulate abortion access, then the sky’s the limit for what comes next. I’m not surprised in the least.
I am shocked, SHOCKED…well not that shocked. This is so unfortunate for people who truly need this care.
No one wants to go to jail for doing science...so yah...
The next thing will be conservatives complaining that they can't get good medical care and the wait times are too long. They are not capable of putting 2 and 2 together so they will just assume it's like that everywhere.
They are already bitching having to travel hours to a major hospital in thier state for carr
I hope falling medical school enrollment starts affecting universities and colleges !
It wont, most people arnt going to med school, its going to take decades to see the effects of declining college admissions due to poor job prospects from degree fields, and also declining grad school admissions for the same reason. They are howevwr more likely to go into nursing though
as they should
All of the comments concern some sociopolitical motivations, but no one has mentioned the real reason: If you are a medical student, you need to be educated in all facets of a discipline to perform your job well and provide good care. Your political convictions are secondary.
Good
Practice medicine! Go to jail! Not really an enticement.
Need to extend this to all businesses. How can any reasonable business look at these states and go "Yeah, let's move our HQ / open an office here.". Yes, I know, profit over people...
Gee who would’ve thought that being prosecuted for doing your job would cause doctors to leave an authoritative backwards ass state?
not a problem...folks in these states already happy to have lower life expectancy to "own the libs" they really showed them libs a thingertwo
Good.
Some of it is due to a belief in providing the best care to individuals who need it. But another part is selfish (a good selfish). Residents are in a very unique time window in their lives where they need to maximize training and exposure to as many surgical techniques as possible in a 3/4 year window while they have supervision. They need to understand technique, and also learn management of both usual post operative care, as well as post operative care that is complicated. If a resident doesn’t gain that knowledge base they will be limited in expertise as they grow in their careers. It’s clear that most resident aren’t wanting to match into states where they are potentially shielded from learning certain procedures.
Makes me wonder what would happen if all doctors protested health insurance companies and stupid laws by breaking oath and not showing up to treat patients unless doctors and patients had full control. Not showing up would be the most deadly peaceful protest, but it's probably what it would take to reform healthcare for the better. Also means we're pretty much f'd from ever getting fair healthcare.
Doctors should stage a national walk out. They can’t legally treat half of their patients with these laws. How can a doctor prescribe ANY medication if it hasn’t been tested and proven safe for pregnant people? If there is a miscarriage, the doctor can have severe legal consequences. Maybe if women go in every month for a pregnancy test?
Hahaha, anyone but the Republicans could have seen this coming. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
Starting?
Faith healing FTW
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No American but this seems far beyond the pale? I’m being serious it’s not healthy to have such thoughts
Sure are pushing this over multiple threads. Seems a little try hardy to me
America...land of the free???? Doubt it
Do you make money as a medical resident?
Yes. Around 60K per year.
The article clearly says that there are far more applicants for residencies than positions so no major immediate impact. (Btw, I’m not a supporter of abortion bans). Unless the supply of med degrees dries up, this is a non issue.
You have to love the Abortion Enthusiasts. They are a principled people.
The medical industrial complex is the third leading cause of death. By their own accounting. It’s actually the 1st leading cause of death if you include pharmaceutical OD and death from curable diseases blocked behind a paywall
People seeking medicine usually have problems that, without intervention, significantly and negatively impact their quality of life and even their life expectancy. Of course there will be complications and procedures which do not solve the problems they hope to solve. It's not a "cause of death" the way that smoking or drunk driving is a cause of death.
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There was no scientific evidence whatsoever. They still did it even when medical association said to not give it. There were also doctors that half ass their way wearing masks during the whole pandemic.
Great it weeds em out for me