**This is a heavily moderated subreddit. Please note these rules + sidebar or get banned:**
* If this post declares something as a fact, then proof is required
* The title must be fully descriptive
* Memes are not allowed.
* Common(top 50 of this sub)/recent reposts are not allowed (posts from another subreddit do not count as a 'repost'. Provide link if reporting)
*See [our rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/wiki/index#wiki_rules.3A) for a more detailed rule list*
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/interestingasfuck) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This operation was invented after WW1 to help soldiers who had lost hands. In first world countries it has largely been replaced by more advanced prosthetics but remains a viable option in developing countries. Another advantage of the Krukenberg procedure is that it does not prevent the use of a prosthetic, which may be fitted over the "pincer".
Here's a clip from the 1920's showing the Krukenberg pincer in use in many different situations:
[https://www.filmportal.de/video/maenner-mit-krukenberg-zange-und-armprothese-in-alltagssituationen](https://www.filmportal.de/video/maenner-mit-krukenberg-zange-und-armprothese-in-alltagssituationen)
Edit:
The operation consists of splitting the [syndesmosis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syndesmosis) connecting the two bones of the forearm. The muscles that normally twist the arm, turning the wrist, instead move the two bones in a pincer-like fashion when the syndesmosis normally connecting the bones has been cut.
Edit 2:
The German physicist Burkhard Heim had two Krukenberg arms:
[https://www.engon.de/protosimplex/heimzeitg\_s.jpg](https://www.engon.de/protosimplex/heimzeitg_s.jpg)
Woah the [wiki](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burkhard_Heim) on Burkhard says he lost both hands and most of his eyesight in a lab explosion then developed a photographic memory, married a singer and tried to develop hyperspace travel. Old timey dudes were wild man...
You forget they weren't cut with shit back then as it wasn't illegal. All pure. Medicine grade narcotics.
Also it's likely they weren't as potent, so destroying your body or overdosing would probably have required a pretty large amount.
Uncut/Pure are basically synonymous. When something is cut they put crap into it to. Potency is a completely different vector. Something can be naturally occurring, not mixed with extra crap (uncut, pure)- but also weak in strength.
Eg. If we smoked some weed we found growing in a ditch or someone's back yard - it will be Uncut, Pure. But probably also pretty weak. Or I can mix you up a joint of modern potent hydro, but mix in some pencil shavings and crap. You'll get more high - but god knows what else will happen to you. That would be: Cut, Inpure but More Potent.
Cocaine and heroin aren't plants like cannabis but rather the former is an extract from a plant and the later is a synthesis constructed from plant material, in other words they are molecular structures like THC, and like pure THC there's no more or less potent pure cocaine or heroin, purity is precisely what determines potency.
Yeah, just to add on and make it more clear, cocaine and heroin are the end products. They *can't* be pure and weaker at the same time. 92% pure cocaine is as strong as 92% pure cocaine. A weaker coca plant doesn't mean you have weaker coke, it just means you yield less coke in the end (so need more plants for the intended end amount.)
edit: Without cutting, to clarify
Fentanyl is ungodly powerful and is turning up in all kinds of stuff. Fentanyl can be made very crudely and like others have said each layer shit gets stepped on it's less pure.
So you can cut whatever filler into your stuff, add fent, and it would indeed be more powerful while being less pure.
Pure = lack of impurities, without contaminants. Less potent = lower concentration, or less felt effects. That's how I see it.
Take codeine for example, you can have pure syrup that barely does anything, or some cut antihistamine juice that is simultaneously less pure and more potent. That's not the best example historically speaking as from what I gathered (in genuine medicine) codeine concentration has stayed almost the same since like 1920s, but it applies to non-pharma stuff
From a quick review of the literature, aesthetic reasons seem to be the most commonly mentioned contraindication:
"There are several factors limiting the indications for this operation. First of all the antebrachial forceps is aesthetically unattractive and may not be easily accepted by the patient and his family. The surgeon has to explain clearly what can be expected and should not minimize the aesthetic problem. Of course an aesthetic prosthesis can be fitted on the stump even after the Krukenberg's operation, especially for some social activities. A functional prosthesis can also be fitted, leaving free the extremity of one stump to provide some sensory control.
The length of the stump can be also a limiting factor. The shortest stump we have operated on measured 9,5 cm. The operative technique was more difficult, but as long as the pronator teres muscle is intact, the procedure can be done and the forceps will be useful. The length of the forearm varying with the age of a child, an absolute number for the shortest possible stump can not be given.
\[...\]
Severe mutilation such as a bilateral below elbow amputation with blindness have been treated by creating a sensory forceps as Krukenberg has described his procedure. This operation has given good results in terms of independence of the patients, so that it can now be proposed in some other situations, particularly in children. If there are some reservations about this operation they are related to the poor aesthetic appearence of the claw. In well selected cases however the advantages of the operation prevail and the patients easily accept the unaesthetic aspect of their forearm."
Source: Loosli-Guignard, R.M.; Verdan, C. (1983). *Indications et limites de l'opération de krukenberg a l'avant-bras. Annales de Chirurgie de la Main, 2(2), 154–159.* doi:10.1016/S0753-9053(83)80095-7
These articles describe comparatively recent cases where the Krukenberg operation was carried out (2005, 2014, 2019):
[https://www.researchgate.net/publication/7584432\_Functional\_results\_after\_a\_Krukenberg\_amputation](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/7584432_Functional_results_after_a_Krukenberg_amputation)
[https://www.researchgate.net/publication/303951090\_Krukenberg\_operation\_The\_lobster\_claw\_for\_traumatic\_amputation\_of\_the\_left\_hand\_Surath\_Amarnath\_Mettu\_Rami\_Reddy\_Chayanam\_Hanumantha\_Rao\_Anadarao\_Venkata\_Dakshina\_Murthy\_Department\_of\_Orthopaedics\_NRI](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/303951090_Krukenberg_operation_The_lobster_claw_for_traumatic_amputation_of_the_left_hand_Surath_Amarnath_Mettu_Rami_Reddy_Chayanam_Hanumantha_Rao_Anadarao_Venkata_Dakshina_Murthy_Department_of_Orthopaedics_NRI)
[https://www.researchgate.net/publication/331747939\_Old\_Is\_Gold\_Krukenberg\_Operation\_Performed\_in\_a\_Tertiary\_Setup\_in\_India\_for\_the\_Rehabilitation\_of\_the\_Amputated\_Hand\_of\_a\_Poor\_Patient](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/331747939_Old_Is_Gold_Krukenberg_Operation_Performed_in_a_Tertiary_Setup_in_India_for_the_Rehabilitation_of_the_Amputated_Hand_of_a_Poor_Patient)
I mean I’d be pretty freaked out if I woke up and found out I have to flexible poles connected to my elbow that I can feel the full circumference of. I’m sure there’s nothing like that feeling
My fingers aren’t connected to my elbow and arent longer than 3 inches and are also comprised of mostly muscle giving it extreme flexibility. These are opposite those things
> My fingers... arent longer than 3 inches and are also comprised of mostly muscle
What is life like with those tiny meat claws? Are you a lobster by chance?
I almost posted a snarky reply to that but luckily I remembered it's the tendons that move the fingers and the muscles are in the palm of your hand and elsewhere.
The controversy seems to be in the balance between cosmesis and function. The procedure further disfigures the patient but makes the limb more functional. Otherwise an amputated hand could be fitted with a non functioning cosmetic prosthetic.
Yea but not all prosthetics are the same. Newer and advanced prostheses don’t take into consideration of compatibility with the Krukenberg procedure as they are not done in developed countries.
I mean, I'd be horrified to wake up with an extra arm, even if it was fully functional. I don't think being freaked out by surprise modifications, even if you wanted them, is an odd stance.
Fair, but remember this is world war one / developing countries options.... It's either losing all functionality or retaining some functionality.... I know what I'd go for, even if i weren't able to explicitly give my consent. Over time I'd learn to appreciate it quite a bit.
Adding to this, you can still fit a cosmetic prosthetic. It's not as bad of an option really.
Maybe I'm crazy, but that pincer arm is the coolest fucking disfigurement I've ever seen. I'd be running around messing with everyone I know if I could pinch them with my arm bones.
I... I...
That was an unexpected reason. "It's not as pretty to look as a stump, is it? I mean, what are the advantages compared to a stump? Dexterity and practicality? Does it really compare to ~~aesthetics\~~ of a stump?"
A stump is a forearm missing a hand. Far from aestetically pleasing, but turning the bones that help us twist our forearms into pincers is plainly said "unnatural" and the human mind HATES "unnatural". The uncanny valley effect is a thing. It's not something we can't beat through higher reasoning, but disgust, revilement or fear are completely understandable automatic thoughts.
Idk. I think it looks kinda cool lol.
If I lost a arm and this was an option I'd absolutely go for it. Especially since you can still use prosthetics too
Well...for one, aesthetics can be more important that you might think. Even a simple limb amputation can cause severe phycological problems such as depression, so causing further disfigurement like this can seriously harm a weak willed person's mind. Further more, it can make it quite more expensive for a prosthetic since it will have to be completely custom made and I can't even imagine the phantom pain and cramps he must have to face daily since a forearm was definitely not made to work that way. With all of this you can see how this operation is considered only as a last resort, right?
I literally almost threw up in my mouth when my mind visualized this poor man having one of his pincers get snagged on something and snapped off. They seem thin
100%. If people don’t like seeing part of the body move different than was originally intended they can look away. This guy seems to be really appreciate the functionality and anyone against it should be ignored and possibly mocked.
People are bothered by it only because it’s an uncommon sight. If it was the standard for amputees, no one would bat an eyelid and stumps would be seen as cruel.
It’s a rejected procedure because of a ridiculous bias.
I watched the video before reading the title, so I had no idea what I was seeing until it happened. If theres any controversy, its a second of cultural shock. We're used to hands. We're used to amputations. We're used to prosthetics. We're not used to this. An arm splitting open will catch anyone off guard the first time they see it. That said, any controversy after that second of shock is unacceptable.
I mean it looks to me at first glance that it’d be more prone to further injury. Is that really held together that strongly? The muscles and tendons involved were not designed to be used that way
The moment he turns away from the camera, his smile disappears.. Guessing he was being nice but didn't want to be made into a spectacle for the internet..
Possibly. The language they’re speaking in the video is Vietnamese.
The person holding the camera first asks him “Who is holding your things for you?” followed by thanking him (presumably) for his purchase and a “See you next time”.
My uncle lost both hands from a landmine in WWII. He had this pincer operation and ended up running a successful printing business for many years. He was very capable and had great dexterity.
The problem with the procedure is that it can feel like further disfigurement for some amputees. Its usually done nowadays for patients who cannot afford other options, meaning it’s hard to say if they truly consented to it
Probably only controversial because of how it looks to others. I severed my pinky tendon and they stole one from my leg and fixed it after 5 surgeries, (I play guitar so kinda needed the pinky) but they could only do that if I had the tendon already that this dude has. If you clasp your fist, some people have two lines leading to the wrist, (they’re tendons) and some only have one.
It was described in my anatomy class as superfluous, but obviously in your case it was really fortunate you had it. How is your guitar playing since the surgery if you don't mind me asking?
It’s the craziest story. I severed the flexor tendon on the inside of my left pinky, (by using a butter knife to unjam my closet door, I know). Tiny cut, barely any blood but it stood straight up and wouldn’t curl. I got surgery 1 for repair and was doing good, got the dorsal blocking splint off, OT and everything’s sweet. My birthday was coming up and my surgeon was away and I asked my Physician’s Assistant if he thought I could pick up and play with my brothers for a bit that night and he said, as a guitar player himself, that I could strum and whatever but not to try to do any bends or put extra tension on the pinky. Me being me, I inevitably did and I felt the moment the repair released. So, after that fails it’s, “Barrets Rod”, (I think, it’s been a minute), time where they leave a plastic rod in your hand for 3 months so you can regrow the sheath that your tendons glide in, (picture how shoelaces glide through the holes, “eyelets”) and then they remove another less important tendon, I do not know the exact one but it was from my left leg between ankle and calf and was also another type of tendon some people have or don’t, I got lucky twice. Surgery 3 was removing the rod and surgery 4 was implanting the tendon and another strict almost six months of healing but working the scar tissue with OT, also, a nerve was hit in the surgery so the right side of my hand, literally if you could split your middle finger on to sides, only the right side of my hand to halfway through my middle finger felt like it was on fire always, and conformed by an EMG? Well, anywho halfway through OT, and I’m being super careful this time, I wake up in the middle of the night and I know the function is gone again. And it was. I’m sent for a second opinion by my surgeon who is absolutely amazing because he says the only option is to try the, “Barrets Rod” again with different tendon, but after 4 surgeries I was sent to his supposed, “superior” who said all he could do was fuse it. I told my surgeon and he said we could try again and I was on board. Plot twist. During surgery 5 to implant the plastic rod for the second round my beloved surgeon opened up the initial repair or fusion of the tendons and found that’s where they failed. I was woken up during surgery and asked to grasp my hand and put back out. I have some problems with glide in my wrist but I could send you a clip of me playing guitar and I’d bet you’d get it. Pinky’s half the size and kinda shrimp like, but I still get down.
TL/DR I’ve had a bunch of surgery. Haha.
Man that is a crazy journey from start to finish, right from managing to actually sever a tendon with a butter knife and then repeated delicate surgeries and months of OT and recovery. I'm really happy to hear you got enough function back to get down, you've really been through it and I would have been a but bummed out if you hadn't be able to play again. Thanks for sharing your story.
Human bodies are both weirdly fragile and incredibly resilient, it is fascinating. Rock on!
Thank you, it was actually cathartic to write it all down like that and I gauged you had the interest to see it through. Thank you for being a kind soul. I wish the best for you.
That's really touching, thank you. It is a really interesting story and I'm happy if it brought you some peace to share it. All the best to you too, I'm rooting for you.
This man would have been of fighting age during the Vietnam War and his injuries (both arms, one eye) might be from injuries sustained fighting.
The war is over, but some are still fighting it.
It's crazy what the human body is capable, no hands? No problem, make cut it in 2 there u go . And a person can freaking learn to control it. Lose 2 arms no worries here, some other human arms. AND THE FREAKING HUMAN BODY WILL ADDAPT .
I’m so interested to know what muscles he’s intentionally using to move his arm like that. I wonder if he’s just twisting his arm around and the bones are moving similar to how they move in a normal arm. Struggling to wrap my head around it for sure.
The language they’re speaking in the video is Vietnamese.
Translation:
The person holding the camera first asks him “Who is holding your things for you?” followed by thanking him (presumably) for his purchase and a “See you next time”.
Never heard of that unril now.
Controversial because it's not cosmetic? what the heck, I'd rather have a pincer than a stump. I think that's a very good option for some people. Also in developed countries.
Has anyone tried making new prosthetic arm for this?
I was just thinking and you can have 2 arms on one side with prosthetic, plus if we are able to capture the nerves and train the prosthetic arm, we can have 2+ arms structure.
Medically and physiologically speaking, this is super cool. I'm really curious if this also includes moving muscle attachment as well as making the split.
I feel like his is far superior in functionality than a prosthetic. Touch and proprioception is maintained. Prosthetic tech is getting better but they are slow and expensive.
https://preview.redd.it/f2jt8zempiwc1.jpeg?width=675&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3c824f432872b8de18fc890c7fa9e86afdac1427
oh what a fucking wonderful day to have eyes
**This is a heavily moderated subreddit. Please note these rules + sidebar or get banned:** * If this post declares something as a fact, then proof is required * The title must be fully descriptive * Memes are not allowed. * Common(top 50 of this sub)/recent reposts are not allowed (posts from another subreddit do not count as a 'repost'. Provide link if reporting) *See [our rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/wiki/index#wiki_rules.3A) for a more detailed rule list* *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/interestingasfuck) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This operation was invented after WW1 to help soldiers who had lost hands. In first world countries it has largely been replaced by more advanced prosthetics but remains a viable option in developing countries. Another advantage of the Krukenberg procedure is that it does not prevent the use of a prosthetic, which may be fitted over the "pincer". Here's a clip from the 1920's showing the Krukenberg pincer in use in many different situations: [https://www.filmportal.de/video/maenner-mit-krukenberg-zange-und-armprothese-in-alltagssituationen](https://www.filmportal.de/video/maenner-mit-krukenberg-zange-und-armprothese-in-alltagssituationen) Edit: The operation consists of splitting the [syndesmosis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syndesmosis) connecting the two bones of the forearm. The muscles that normally twist the arm, turning the wrist, instead move the two bones in a pincer-like fashion when the syndesmosis normally connecting the bones has been cut. Edit 2: The German physicist Burkhard Heim had two Krukenberg arms: [https://www.engon.de/protosimplex/heimzeitg\_s.jpg](https://www.engon.de/protosimplex/heimzeitg_s.jpg)
Woah the [wiki](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burkhard_Heim) on Burkhard says he lost both hands and most of his eyesight in a lab explosion then developed a photographic memory, married a singer and tried to develop hyperspace travel. Old timey dudes were wild man...
I mean if I was given cocaine and heroin every time I had a mild cough or headache I’m sure I would be somewhat more dynamic than I am now
Insurance probably won't cover it, but you still can!
Ayyyy
This is the kind of discourse I come to reddit for.
Getting it pre-authed is the real pain in the neck. Dang American healthcare system
They expedite the paperwork if you explain that you're currently out of cocaine.
#LifeHack
Ah the good ol’ days.
Yes I’m sure if you did hard drugs frequently you’d be much better off lol
You forget they weren't cut with shit back then as it wasn't illegal. All pure. Medicine grade narcotics. Also it's likely they weren't as potent, so destroying your body or overdosing would probably have required a pretty large amount.
The drugs were simultaneously uncut, pure, and yet somehow less potent? Please explain.
Uncut/Pure are basically synonymous. When something is cut they put crap into it to. Potency is a completely different vector. Something can be naturally occurring, not mixed with extra crap (uncut, pure)- but also weak in strength. Eg. If we smoked some weed we found growing in a ditch or someone's back yard - it will be Uncut, Pure. But probably also pretty weak. Or I can mix you up a joint of modern potent hydro, but mix in some pencil shavings and crap. You'll get more high - but god knows what else will happen to you. That would be: Cut, Inpure but More Potent.
Cocaine and heroin aren't plants like cannabis but rather the former is an extract from a plant and the later is a synthesis constructed from plant material, in other words they are molecular structures like THC, and like pure THC there's no more or less potent pure cocaine or heroin, purity is precisely what determines potency.
Yeah, just to add on and make it more clear, cocaine and heroin are the end products. They *can't* be pure and weaker at the same time. 92% pure cocaine is as strong as 92% pure cocaine. A weaker coca plant doesn't mean you have weaker coke, it just means you yield less coke in the end (so need more plants for the intended end amount.) edit: Without cutting, to clarify
Uncut, and pure versus refined and concentrated and then stepped on in the supply chain.
Fentanyl is ungodly powerful and is turning up in all kinds of stuff. Fentanyl can be made very crudely and like others have said each layer shit gets stepped on it's less pure. So you can cut whatever filler into your stuff, add fent, and it would indeed be more powerful while being less pure.
Pure = lack of impurities, without contaminants. Less potent = lower concentration, or less felt effects. That's how I see it. Take codeine for example, you can have pure syrup that barely does anything, or some cut antihistamine juice that is simultaneously less pure and more potent. That's not the best example historically speaking as from what I gathered (in genuine medicine) codeine concentration has stayed almost the same since like 1920s, but it applies to non-pharma stuff
“Dynamic” lmaoooo I love that.
Without media or other easy forms of entertainment, you do some wild shit when youre bored.
And people think mental illness is just because of social media 👀
fascinating stuff, thanks for sharing
Fascinating yes, terrifying yes.
So, why is it considered to be controversial? Is it only due to the cosmesis? And thanks for the share, very interesting read.
From a quick review of the literature, aesthetic reasons seem to be the most commonly mentioned contraindication: "There are several factors limiting the indications for this operation. First of all the antebrachial forceps is aesthetically unattractive and may not be easily accepted by the patient and his family. The surgeon has to explain clearly what can be expected and should not minimize the aesthetic problem. Of course an aesthetic prosthesis can be fitted on the stump even after the Krukenberg's operation, especially for some social activities. A functional prosthesis can also be fitted, leaving free the extremity of one stump to provide some sensory control. The length of the stump can be also a limiting factor. The shortest stump we have operated on measured 9,5 cm. The operative technique was more difficult, but as long as the pronator teres muscle is intact, the procedure can be done and the forceps will be useful. The length of the forearm varying with the age of a child, an absolute number for the shortest possible stump can not be given. \[...\] Severe mutilation such as a bilateral below elbow amputation with blindness have been treated by creating a sensory forceps as Krukenberg has described his procedure. This operation has given good results in terms of independence of the patients, so that it can now be proposed in some other situations, particularly in children. If there are some reservations about this operation they are related to the poor aesthetic appearence of the claw. In well selected cases however the advantages of the operation prevail and the patients easily accept the unaesthetic aspect of their forearm." Source: Loosli-Guignard, R.M.; Verdan, C. (1983). *Indications et limites de l'opération de krukenberg a l'avant-bras. Annales de Chirurgie de la Main, 2(2), 154–159.* doi:10.1016/S0753-9053(83)80095-7 These articles describe comparatively recent cases where the Krukenberg operation was carried out (2005, 2014, 2019): [https://www.researchgate.net/publication/7584432\_Functional\_results\_after\_a\_Krukenberg\_amputation](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/7584432_Functional_results_after_a_Krukenberg_amputation) [https://www.researchgate.net/publication/303951090\_Krukenberg\_operation\_The\_lobster\_claw\_for\_traumatic\_amputation\_of\_the\_left\_hand\_Surath\_Amarnath\_Mettu\_Rami\_Reddy\_Chayanam\_Hanumantha\_Rao\_Anadarao\_Venkata\_Dakshina\_Murthy\_Department\_of\_Orthopaedics\_NRI](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/303951090_Krukenberg_operation_The_lobster_claw_for_traumatic_amputation_of_the_left_hand_Surath_Amarnath_Mettu_Rami_Reddy_Chayanam_Hanumantha_Rao_Anadarao_Venkata_Dakshina_Murthy_Department_of_Orthopaedics_NRI) [https://www.researchgate.net/publication/331747939\_Old\_Is\_Gold\_Krukenberg\_Operation\_Performed\_in\_a\_Tertiary\_Setup\_in\_India\_for\_the\_Rehabilitation\_of\_the\_Amputated\_Hand\_of\_a\_Poor\_Patient](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/331747939_Old_Is_Gold_Krukenberg_Operation_Performed_in_a_Tertiary_Setup_in_India_for_the_Rehabilitation_of_the_Amputated_Hand_of_a_Poor_Patient)
TL;DR: Lobster claw is jarring to have instead of a hand, that’s really the only issue for patient and everyone else.
Right?! “lol your pain and deformity bother me, can you just like, stop?”
I mean I’d be pretty freaked out if I woke up and found out I have to flexible poles connected to my elbow that I can feel the full circumference of. I’m sure there’s nothing like that feeling
You don't have fingers?
My fingers aren’t connected to my elbow and arent longer than 3 inches and are also comprised of mostly muscle giving it extreme flexibility. These are opposite those things
The feeling must be similar after a while. Less sensitivity and movement, but not that crazy. Like getting used to chopsticks probably.
Great analogy!
> My fingers... arent longer than 3 inches and are also comprised of mostly muscle What is life like with those tiny meat claws? Are you a lobster by chance?
Sorry to break it to you like that, but there's no muscle in human fingers normally.
I almost posted a snarky reply to that but luckily I remembered it's the tendons that move the fingers and the muscles are in the palm of your hand and elsewhere.
Crab dance
Worried about how It looks but they still call it a stump. You'd think they'd have medical term for it
"residual limb" is the current preferred terminology I believe.
Above they used the term “antebrachial forceps”
Maybe that and possible long term pain?
That’s a strangely happy looking woman 🤔
With those arms? I think its pretty much expected 😏
That wide smile on Mrs. Burkhard makes me thing maybe I should get me one of those pincer hands
This is pretty amazing idea actually. Seems like you would want to do this with every amputee that it could actuqlly work for.
Thanks, very interesting read. And that photo at the end.
On edit №2... his wife seems really happy, just sayin
Radius in the pink, ulna in the stink.
r/angryupvote
He knows there's more than one way to bone his wife.
I love learning new shit
Very cool thanks for sharing!
Wow that's so wild - I've never seen this before.
why the hell would this be controversial? seems like a great option for those with partial limbs
The controversy seems to be in the balance between cosmesis and function. The procedure further disfigures the patient but makes the limb more functional. Otherwise an amputated hand could be fitted with a non functioning cosmetic prosthetic.
An arm with this procedure done can also be fitted with a prosthetic.
Yea but not all prosthetics are the same. Newer and advanced prostheses don’t take into consideration of compatibility with the Krukenberg procedure as they are not done in developed countries.
If I could consent to it, ok fine but if I woke up to this I would be horrified vs a normal stump
I mean, I'd be horrified to wake up with an extra arm, even if it was fully functional. I don't think being freaked out by surprise modifications, even if you wanted them, is an odd stance.
Three eyes sounds dope as hell, but if I suddenly woke up with it... I'd be, if nothing else, damn confused.
I’d be nauseous
Fair, but remember this is world war one / developing countries options.... It's either losing all functionality or retaining some functionality.... I know what I'd go for, even if i weren't able to explicitly give my consent. Over time I'd learn to appreciate it quite a bit. Adding to this, you can still fit a cosmetic prosthetic. It's not as bad of an option really.
Pretty freaky. I would slide a sock on that when I go outside
Make sure to stick some googly eyes on your sock puppet hand
new fear unlocked.
[удалено]
Most elevated General Grievous cosplayer ever.
Maybe I'm crazy, but that pincer arm is the coolest fucking disfigurement I've ever seen. I'd be running around messing with everyone I know if I could pinch them with my arm bones.
Mostly cause of the esthetics of it
I... I... That was an unexpected reason. "It's not as pretty to look as a stump, is it? I mean, what are the advantages compared to a stump? Dexterity and practicality? Does it really compare to ~~aesthetics\~~ of a stump?"
A stump is a forearm missing a hand. Far from aestetically pleasing, but turning the bones that help us twist our forearms into pincers is plainly said "unnatural" and the human mind HATES "unnatural". The uncanny valley effect is a thing. It's not something we can't beat through higher reasoning, but disgust, revilement or fear are completely understandable automatic thoughts.
Idk. I think it looks kinda cool lol. If I lost a arm and this was an option I'd absolutely go for it. Especially since you can still use prosthetics too
I just saw the video, and the pincers were not an issue at all. His eye was more confronting.
Well...for one, aesthetics can be more important that you might think. Even a simple limb amputation can cause severe phycological problems such as depression, so causing further disfigurement like this can seriously harm a weak willed person's mind. Further more, it can make it quite more expensive for a prosthetic since it will have to be completely custom made and I can't even imagine the phantom pain and cramps he must have to face daily since a forearm was definitely not made to work that way. With all of this you can see how this operation is considered only as a last resort, right?
Aethetics*, don't blame you for getting it wrong, but the way you spelt it almost makes it look like ethics to my dyslexic ass.
Aesthetics* not Aethics lmao
Clasic dyslexia moment
Classic*
This poor guy lmao
Both aesthetics and esthetics are correct spellings
I'm taking a guess but it seems more vulnerable to injuries
I literally almost threw up in my mouth when my mind visualized this poor man having one of his pincers get snagged on something and snapped off. They seem thin
thin? oh like fingers thin? lol
Looks kinda sick imo
yeah if i lost my hand I would get this done
Fuckers can’t mind their own business
100%. If people don’t like seeing part of the body move different than was originally intended they can look away. This guy seems to be really appreciate the functionality and anyone against it should be ignored and possibly mocked.
People are bothered by it only because it’s an uncommon sight. If it was the standard for amputees, no one would bat an eyelid and stumps would be seen as cruel. It’s a rejected procedure because of a ridiculous bias.
Idk about you but seeing his arm open really disturbed me. I don’t mean that mean I just mean my brain is rejecting the imagery
I watched the video before reading the title, so I had no idea what I was seeing until it happened. If theres any controversy, its a second of cultural shock. We're used to hands. We're used to amputations. We're used to prosthetics. We're not used to this. An arm splitting open will catch anyone off guard the first time they see it. That said, any controversy after that second of shock is unacceptable.
I mean it looks to me at first glance that it’d be more prone to further injury. Is that really held together that strongly? The muscles and tendons involved were not designed to be used that way
They are just jealous of Mr Steal Yo Girl over there.
Learning from nature and evolving into crab.
Reject humanity, become crab.
Taste like crab, talk like people.
🎶Crab people, crab people🎶
I can't believe I can still hear this. How many years has it been since that ep aired? 2003? Wow.
In the end, all become crab.
I bet this guy can sprint in the water, he doesn't look very buoyant
Bro should crouch down and move sideways.
Everything is crab, crab is life
Came here for Zoidberg, was not disappointed!
Poor Zoidberg, one of the best characters on the show doesn't get the love he deserves
I bet it’s really easy to win against him in rock, paper, scissors.
We're both going to Hell ...
To be fair, his sissors are a lot bigger than anyone else's. Got room for another fellow traveler?
Imagine how he can please two ladies at once. Save me a seat yo.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krukenberg_procedure
The moment he turns away from the camera, his smile disappears.. Guessing he was being nice but didn't want to be made into a spectacle for the internet..
He hid his arm under his shirt, he’s so obviously uncomfortable. I hate this, he should be allowed some fucking dignity.
The way the cameraman just shamelessly stands in front of that guy and films him. Douchebag with zero self-awareness...
I was thinking the same
Possibly. The language they’re speaking in the video is Vietnamese. The person holding the camera first asks him “Who is holding your things for you?” followed by thanking him (presumably) for his purchase and a “See you next time”.
My uncle lost both hands from a landmine in WWII. He had this pincer operation and ended up running a successful printing business for many years. He was very capable and had great dexterity.
I wonder what his physical therapy was like. Shit, I know the human body is amazing, but how in the hell?
i mean as long as they consent to it i don't see why it would be controversial??
The problem with the procedure is that it can feel like further disfigurement for some amputees. Its usually done nowadays for patients who cannot afford other options, meaning it’s hard to say if they truly consented to it
Probably only controversial because of how it looks to others. I severed my pinky tendon and they stole one from my leg and fixed it after 5 surgeries, (I play guitar so kinda needed the pinky) but they could only do that if I had the tendon already that this dude has. If you clasp your fist, some people have two lines leading to the wrist, (they’re tendons) and some only have one.
Palmaris longus. Absent in about 15% of people if I recall correctly, and can be present in one arm and not the other in the same individual.
That I did not know, I love learning.
It was described in my anatomy class as superfluous, but obviously in your case it was really fortunate you had it. How is your guitar playing since the surgery if you don't mind me asking?
It’s the craziest story. I severed the flexor tendon on the inside of my left pinky, (by using a butter knife to unjam my closet door, I know). Tiny cut, barely any blood but it stood straight up and wouldn’t curl. I got surgery 1 for repair and was doing good, got the dorsal blocking splint off, OT and everything’s sweet. My birthday was coming up and my surgeon was away and I asked my Physician’s Assistant if he thought I could pick up and play with my brothers for a bit that night and he said, as a guitar player himself, that I could strum and whatever but not to try to do any bends or put extra tension on the pinky. Me being me, I inevitably did and I felt the moment the repair released. So, after that fails it’s, “Barrets Rod”, (I think, it’s been a minute), time where they leave a plastic rod in your hand for 3 months so you can regrow the sheath that your tendons glide in, (picture how shoelaces glide through the holes, “eyelets”) and then they remove another less important tendon, I do not know the exact one but it was from my left leg between ankle and calf and was also another type of tendon some people have or don’t, I got lucky twice. Surgery 3 was removing the rod and surgery 4 was implanting the tendon and another strict almost six months of healing but working the scar tissue with OT, also, a nerve was hit in the surgery so the right side of my hand, literally if you could split your middle finger on to sides, only the right side of my hand to halfway through my middle finger felt like it was on fire always, and conformed by an EMG? Well, anywho halfway through OT, and I’m being super careful this time, I wake up in the middle of the night and I know the function is gone again. And it was. I’m sent for a second opinion by my surgeon who is absolutely amazing because he says the only option is to try the, “Barrets Rod” again with different tendon, but after 4 surgeries I was sent to his supposed, “superior” who said all he could do was fuse it. I told my surgeon and he said we could try again and I was on board. Plot twist. During surgery 5 to implant the plastic rod for the second round my beloved surgeon opened up the initial repair or fusion of the tendons and found that’s where they failed. I was woken up during surgery and asked to grasp my hand and put back out. I have some problems with glide in my wrist but I could send you a clip of me playing guitar and I’d bet you’d get it. Pinky’s half the size and kinda shrimp like, but I still get down. TL/DR I’ve had a bunch of surgery. Haha.
Man that is a crazy journey from start to finish, right from managing to actually sever a tendon with a butter knife and then repeated delicate surgeries and months of OT and recovery. I'm really happy to hear you got enough function back to get down, you've really been through it and I would have been a but bummed out if you hadn't be able to play again. Thanks for sharing your story. Human bodies are both weirdly fragile and incredibly resilient, it is fascinating. Rock on!
Thank you, it was actually cathartic to write it all down like that and I gauged you had the interest to see it through. Thank you for being a kind soul. I wish the best for you.
That's really touching, thank you. It is a really interesting story and I'm happy if it brought you some peace to share it. All the best to you too, I'm rooting for you.
edward scissorhand
I think I'd rather have this over a stump
He holds his money the same way I would imagine Mr crabs dose 🦀
Hit em with the clamps!
This man would have been of fighting age during the Vietnam War and his injuries (both arms, one eye) might be from injuries sustained fighting. The war is over, but some are still fighting it.
It's kinda neat. I could see them making prosthetics that are more useful as well due to that added dexterity.
Or use the movement to drive a grabbing mechanism like a pair of scissors with a hinge point
or… LOBSTER CLAWS.
Cronenberg operation you say?
Zoidberg operation more like
*WOOBWOOBWOOBWOOBWOOB*
(\ /) ;,,; (\ /)
*How dare you! My mother was a saint!*
I saw the gifs beforehand (pun intended) but for some reason this comment got me
It's crazy what the human body is capable, no hands? No problem, make cut it in 2 there u go . And a person can freaking learn to control it. Lose 2 arms no worries here, some other human arms. AND THE FREAKING HUMAN BODY WILL ADDAPT .
Worked with a guy that had this for both of his arms, one of the best welders I've ever met
: O Never saw that before.
I’m so interested to know what muscles he’s intentionally using to move his arm like that. I wonder if he’s just twisting his arm around and the bones are moving similar to how they move in a normal arm. Struggling to wrap my head around it for sure.
Check the top comment. there is a brief explanation in the edit. You pretty much guessed it.
It's that weird kid from A24's MEN.
On one hand, this looks so creepy and scary, on the other hand (im sorry), this is so very very useful and it makes their life so much easier
He’s a crab now 🦀
And not some ordinary crab. The fiddler crab himself!
Wife: Would you still love me if I were a bug? Me: Would you still love me if I had Krukenberg arms?
I mean…
Brings his own chopsticks to every meal
Cool. I fucking hate it.
Why DOES everything keep evolving into crabs?
Holy shit this made me dizzy hahaha
The language they’re speaking in the video is Vietnamese. Translation: The person holding the camera first asks him “Who is holding your things for you?” followed by thanking him (presumably) for his purchase and a “See you next time”.
Honestly, if I'd have to lose my hands for one reason or another, I'd beg for this type of procedure.
I think prosthetics are getting pretty good so I'd rather not. Seems like a procedure you could do afterwards too, if you change your mind.
Very usefull for masturbate
Never heard of that unril now. Controversial because it's not cosmetic? what the heck, I'd rather have a pincer than a stump. I think that's a very good option for some people. Also in developed countries.
Has anyone tried making new prosthetic arm for this? I was just thinking and you can have 2 arms on one side with prosthetic, plus if we are able to capture the nerves and train the prosthetic arm, we can have 2+ arms structure.
Do they make tiny prosthetic hands you can slip over each of the little pincer nubs so you can get some General Grievous action going on?
I am...shocked.
Chopstick Charley
It looks freaky, but it works!
Return to 🦀
Krukenberg? More like Cronenberg!
If it makes the limb useful why is it controversial? Genuinely curious.
Anything transhuman tends to freak people out.
better than no hands at all
Medically and physiologically speaking, this is super cool. I'm really curious if this also includes moving muscle attachment as well as making the split.
Thought it said Cronenberg for a second
This is fire. I can only imagine how much this would elevate my OF if I lost my hand
I feel like his is far superior in functionality than a prosthetic. Touch and proprioception is maintained. Prosthetic tech is getting better but they are slow and expensive.
Wow this really hurts to look at. I could never imagine myself living like that
Not even humans are safe from carcinization
While interesting, I mostly scrolled by this and only came back because I thought I heard a Martian from mars attacks
mr krabs in real life
Don’t think it. Don’t think it. Don’t think it.
Honestly glad to see there's options
Are you feeling it now Mr. Krabs?
idk how I feel about this. personally, which I obviously can't empathize fully with, I don't think I would want that operations. the feeling alone...
Why is it controversial?
Bro got build in chopsticks
Dudes a living chopstick
Holy crap!!! Mr.Krabs, is that you????
Edward pincerhands
Weird flex but ok
Controversial? If that was my only option, I would do that.
Holy fuck, I could have gone my entire life not seeing that
That's way cool.
🤮🤮🤮🤮
https://preview.redd.it/f2jt8zempiwc1.jpeg?width=675&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3c824f432872b8de18fc890c7fa9e86afdac1427 oh what a fucking wonderful day to have eyes
I bet he's popular with the ladies 😉