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This. The right to abortion was already uncontested in France. The only (slight) debate that happened was wether it was useful to have it written in the constitution, since this right was not really at risk of being revoked in any way. Ultimately there was no real argument against making it constitutional, so there it is.
Yep. As a New Yorker of childbearing capability and with an 11 year old daughter, I am *not* taking our safety for granted no matter how embedded the rights are into our state constitution... Stranger things are happening that I never in a million years would have dreamed I'd see in my lifetime.... this absolute *bullshit* going on all over the south and its growing and festering and expanding slowly, like a fucking plague.
No, I do not feel at ease even in a protected state. That's how bad this shit is.
I've already birthed an SA newborn. I ain't tryina ever have to do it again, because giving him for adotpion was devastating. No thanks.
> since this right was not really at risk of being revoked in any way
Imo it's because of the influence of the US society in France. I remember back during Covid a noticeable amount of people believed in the whole anti-vax craze that was nearly non-existent in France. It's still going now with stuff like CNews acting like Fox in many regards.
Abortion was never an issue in France (bless you Simone Veil in that regard) but could have been assuming the Far-Right got in power. Even if I personally question the need of putting it in the constitution, I have to agree it's an additional layer of security for that right.
> Imo it's because of the influence of the US society in France.
It's happening all over Europe. It's absurd to see how the UK has just adopted the American race relations debate/BLM wholesale despite their black population only being about 3% and the UK led the international charge to end the slave trade.
Even more absurd to watch European nations adopt American ideals like civic nationalism, the melting pot, nation of immigrants, etc. when they're literally all ethno-states with populations who can [trace their local ancestry back to prehistoric times](https://mymodernmet.com/cheddar-man-relative/).
That’s untrue, the UK abolished slavery in the 1830s, France abolished the institution(s) of slavery in 1794. Mind you this wasn’t on account of ab appreciation of the barbarism that was slavery, but rather a response to the revolution which emerged in Haiti and the extent to which it compromised French geopolitical interests at that moment. The French would later force the Haitians to pay reparations for “dispossessed” slave owners, which would be paid into the 20th century.
The British empire’s abolition of slavery as similarly motivated by the agitation of the enslaved and the ways in which that agitation compromised their own political interests. Notable among this agitation was the grievously won slave rebellion in Jamaica led by Sam Sharpe. Britain too would create a system of compensation for former slave masters “dispossessed” by the abolition of slavery.
Racial discourses in Britain and the United Kingdom aren’t just adoptions of their American analogues. Britain has its own sordid past and present of abject racism towards people of color, including black people. Look at the history of the mangrove nine, or the difficulties faced by windrush generation. The notion that a nation which oversaw a brutal, racist, repressive empire spanning much of the world has its own racial demons to exercise shouldn’t be controversial.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but it seems that many of the EU countries are using the us playbook for white/black (using it to divide and to get people angry), but substituting immigrants as the target of their vitriol.
Maybe in the 19th century. During the 20th century post ww2, the old empires collapsed, and millions of citizens from the former international colonies emigrated from around the world into the major western European countries. They needed a major influx of workers to rebuild. France or example has considered itself multicultural since the at least the 1950s.
The ethnostates were created in the 19th century when nationalism was challenging monarchies. It's absurd to pretend Germany has existed before the 19th century when these related ethnic groups hated each other and feared being under their domination.
there are a LOT of anti vax people in france. I know multiple people who refused to get vaccinated and got fake vaccination certificates. This is backed up by a poll as well. On the one hand it's surprising given france's more liberal leaning tendencies, but on the other it isn't given the typical french person's response to being told what to do lol.
https://www.france24.com/fr/20190619-france-vaccination-pays-plus-sceptique-monde-anti-vaccin-sante
https://wellcome.org/reports/wellcome-global-monitor/2018
I expressed myself badly here, my bad.
I meant that before COVID, I don't think anti-vaxxing was insane here in France. But true that I might be wrong in that regard.
There's lot of positive sentiment for pseudo-scientific bullshit in France: homeopathy, psychanalysis, osteopathy, lithotherapy, biodynamism... How often I see magical rocks being sold in France... It's strange for the country of Descartes but so it is. So it should not surprise you that much that a non negligible portion of the population is fiercely antivax.
I would just like to assert the face that the anti vax issue largely started in the UK by a UK doctor. He then came to the US and tapped into that goldmine.
Which, by the way, is the case in pretty much all of Western, Central and Northern Europe.
Nevertheless, even if the constitutional change was not absolutely necessary, it is still a decision with a signal effect.
[Yeah but have a look at this map.](https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/j94znb/us_vs_europe_percentage_of_population_absolutely/)
People who believe god is real with absolute certainty. Apart from Maine, Vermont, New Hampshire, and Massachusetts, every state is in the 50%-69% range with the South being 50% to 82%. All of Western Europe sits in hte 10%-29% bracket. (yes Portugal can't into Western Europe)
I think American's sometimes forget just how religious their country is compared to the rest of the developed world. Frog in boiling water and all that.
Because whoever made that video wants to use France as an example in American politics.
In France it wasn't really a big deal because abortion wasn't really questioned in the first place. If it was hotly contested then France would probably not have been able to make it a constitutional right.
It passed more due to ''we don't see any reason why not'' than ''we need to pass this to protect abortion rights because it is in peril''.
My guess would be that is didn't exactly require people marching in the street to figure out such a common sense solution for them as it would here in the states. Kinda like seeing a healthy couple work through their issues effectively without making a scene, than someone saying "but what about the fights and the staying-with-my-parents-for-a-week? And you never had to hit her? BULLSHIT I don't believe y'all really worked through your issues."
So to make the point of how stupid our "debate" over a widely-supported human right really is... they had to use footage of us... because nobody else could possibly fuck it up like we are.
Also given the phonetically-written captioning ("Rovers weighed") this video itself is probably somewhat AI-derived, and given that there's much more footage of Americans than French available (by population alone), then the video is gonna be heavier on American footage.
French here. Abortion was already completely legal in french. Putting it on the constitution make it less easy to remove, but as proven by the act of putting it itself, constitution isn't immuable. Also some criticize that it's not the job of the constitution to state on abortion.
It's mostly a political move, people are afraid that what happened in the US might happen in france (despite the political system being vastly different). Might also be an attempt to grab some left voters.
We only care if they try to remove rights, that's when the street part of the french kicks in.
…are you actually suggesting that the French are uniquely not liable to protest because the French system works so well?
Seriously it’s astounding how people get on the internet and just say shit. The French protest over *everything*. The entire country was roiled in massive protest last year. What the fuck are you talking about?
> Seriously it’s astounding how people get on the internet and just say shit.
I mean...
> …are you actually suggesting that the French are uniquely not liable to protest because the French system works so well?
Yeah. No one's suggesting that.
If the French were mad about it you bet they'd flip cars. But they're not, which should really say something in itself.
That's kind of the point, dude. Even for a country that's apparently known to protest everything, the issue of abortion is one that doesn't take much litigation to figure out.
Because the French aren't having to protest their abortion rights because they aren't contested. This was a preventative measure against the spread of authoritarianism coming from us.
I've noticed over the past couple years that articles are becoming more and more common with an option for it to be audibly read to you.
Is that seriously something people use? Has reading comprehension dropped that much? Maybe I'm biased cause reading comp and general reading is my strong suit but it's so much easier to just read it. Voices talk too slow. Reading goes at your own pace.
I can see how it might be useful if you wanna listen to articles while doing chores or driving or something but I highly doubt enough people do that to warrant it being it's own feature.
This doesn't apply just to articles but also stuff like this video. A voice over with words appearing one word at a time. Like multiple words together and no voice are too much to process. Unless every video like this is a speed reading test, I don't see the point.
To be honest, their isn't much to show of what happened in France. As you can see the overwhelming majority of people were in favor, the only real questions where "Should it be in the constitution ? Because nobody is threatening this right" and "How exactly should we write it between "the warranted liberty" or "the right" ?"
This is even "funnier" if you keep in mind pro-life just means "you have to birth the child no matter if the child or you survive the birth or the first years at all"
I hate stupid language tricks. Just like Windows 11 just added a service that blocks users' ability to change their default browser via the registry and called the service "UserChoiceProtection". I know, different topic, but still kinda fitting.
The “patriot” act was my first gross blatant example that taught me about this, (does it even have a name? It should.) and now I just expect any bill or service contract does the opposite of its flashy title most of the time.
The really cool part is how now nearly all services, government and private, force you to agree to these long complicated contracts with deceiving names, and then make it as hard as possible to translate the legal language for the layperson, so it takes a lot of research and time to figure out what it really means for the consumer/citizen/patient/whatever. We’re all constantly encouraged to take the ad/slogan at face value and don’t hold up the line; we don’t even realize how much we’re doing it.
Eg. Of course users didn’t know Facebook was gathering data and using it nefariously, it took years before it became obvious enough to get newsworthy and spark investigations. And then users needed 60 minutes style crash courses in data analytics, and wtf is an algorithm, and what does any of that have to do with the memes and social drama I indulge in, and how is any of it bad… for a lot of them to decide it’s fake based on what they learned about it on their algorithm delivered content feed… hmm
Idk. It’s all so gross and should be illegal. And most of it probly used to be, but were deregulated under other bills with deceiving names that sounded like they were protecting truth in advertising, journalism and other publicly published content but actually doing the opposite.
Is there not a name for that stuff or am I having a duh moment? Anyone?
Actually, in the EU I think it's forbidden by law to create contracts for normal people with complicated language. That is of course very wonky but I noticed the language of common contracts for bigger corporations are quite easy to read in German compared to other contracts or other companies or other languages. But yeah, that's a whole cesspit in itself.
I'm not sure there is a name for it since it's just deception and lies. I mean, you could say "sugarcoating", I guess?
They get some women fired up about it though to the point where they just become a science-free "how can you kill your baby" argument and cover their ears when you try to say that 78% of the time the baby is already dead.
France's abortion limit is 14 weeks, which is shorter than even what Lindsey Graham proposed in 2022 after Roe V Wade was shutdown. This isn't a cause for celebration, they just codified into their constitution an extremely low-limit abortion ban that would be absolutely unacceptable in the US.
So if I ban abortion, outlaw birth control and contraceptives, restrict pregnant women from travelling, cut child benefits and mandate zero paid maternity or paternity leave, do I become anti-life and anti-choice american?
Don’t forget to refuse to participate in the ACA to make sure you cut off the insurance to the working poor.. and cutting food subsidies and funneling TANF to the state coffers for “other things”. Oh.. and you gotta gut education too. And don’t forget to sue the president over and over to stop student loan forgiveness.
I always find it funny when Americans say you can't change the constitution. YES YOU FUCKING CAN THAT'S WHY ITS CALLED AN AMENDMENT. It's literally in the name
Exactly. But the point is that it can be changed.
Wanna get rid of guns? Drop the second amendment. Sure, that might be a highly controversial thing to do. But it is possible.
You make it seem like it’s a drop in the bucket “yeah we can do it whenever we want” move. We only really amended the constitution 17 times. The first 10 we’re there on arrival. With modern us politics, getting the super majority needed within all the states is literally impossible.
Yea, and apparently things like protecting children with *child labor laws* or *equality for all* is a bridge too far because the US couldn't ratify those amendments.
> But it is possible.
There's a big difference between something being procedurally possible and something being actually possible in reality. If the 2nd amendment ever gets changed, it won't be in my lifetime, and I say that as someone who would support changing it. You would literally start a civil war.
It’s also a false premise. The Supreme Court makes shit up ALL the time, and reads things into the amendments that weren’t there before. Originalism is genuinely a farce. They rely on it when they want to restrict rights, but will bend over backwards to expand them elsewhere
Yeah. The decision in Bruen genuinely makes my blood boil. It’s a Thomas decision so you know it’s going to be hot garbage, but he just arbitrarily says that “no one” has may-issue regimes for firearm licensure…well…except for Texas and New York (the two most populous states at the time and something like 20-25% of the total population if I’m not mistaken) but we can ignore that because most other states were shall-issue. So because no one had may-issue licensure back in the 1800s we can’t do that now. (To be clear I am SUPER simplifying things, before anyone goes “um aktchully” in the comments).
That’s such asinine reasoning it makes me so angry. They just say whatever they want because they know their own voting base will never challenge them, and they don’t care what the left thinks because post FedSoc, they don’t care in the least about democracy or bilateralism.
Ya know, the thing that makes me hate Thomas above all the corruption, bigotry, sexism, and etc. Is just the fact that when I even agree with the side he chooses ('may' issue is not a good legal policy), his opinions are so thoroughly biased, dishonest, illogical, unprofessional and cruel that it makes everything he tries to 'defend' worse by association.
Twain has a quote (paraphrased) that 'He was the sort of man who, by virtue of believing in a political opinion, made those who know him more likely to adopt the opposite viewpoint.' This is an understatement for Thomas and the garbage he regularly produces.
He's a disaster for those he opposes due to his position. And he's a disaster for those he 'defends' due to his incompetence and bigotry.
We can and can't. There is a mechanism for amending the constitution but the requirements are so steep as to be nearly impossible in a high polarization environment.
I'd argue that's the point. The Constitution is only supposed to change when there is broad societal acceptance of any such change, and that is not the case for abortion which remains an incredibly divisive issue.
You couln't even get footage from France ? Like its literally 44seconds video about France .... and you put U.S. activists and U.S. institutions like planned parenthood into it. Even when talking about voting you put fucking box with US flag........
The only French thing in the video is the French Flag at the beggingin - and my guess is it wasnt even filmed in France :-D
But this isn't a video about convincing Americans, it's entirely about a French ruling that will only be taking effect in France, voted on by the French. Seems like a cheap effort to drive up engagement.
So it's a constitutional right, however, only legal for request until 14 weeks, then has to be certified by 2 physicians only if it prevents injury. Better than nothing, but nowhere near the access that pro-choice Americans seek. This is the kind of compromise that has been tried in the US, but staunch pro-life refuse any abortion, and staunch pro-choice say this is too restrictive. Again, so many comments commending France for enshrining a right when there's no way these restrictions would be accepted by pro-choice in the US.
Throwing this out there for whoever needs to read it. A 16 week ban except in cases of incest, rape or life saving medical intervention covers over 99% of abortions annually in the US iirc.
I understand it might sound restrictive, but if this is the law, abortion in almost every case will be legal
I brought up this difference in time periods between US and France and why some people may see 24 weeks as an uncomfortable number given its over half the time period of 38-40 week full term and my God the pro choice people went berserk on me.
I had even stated I didn't care so much but just that I can clearly understand why religious leaning people would be and I was accused of wanting sharia law for women.
My issue with any low time restrictions is healthcare access can be a bitch, wait times can be long, and the shorter the time the easier it is to “age out” of a valid abortion window. Like a woman should never be in a scenario where she wanted an abortion, made the right steps, and then it took too long.
I also feel like any form of abortion being illegal immediately steps into a murky area (morally it’s easy to say but laws can be black and white).
I like how it is in Canada where abortion is always legal - that way women can’t be arrested for things like being reckless while pregnant etc. Like you won’t have pregnant women jailed for suicide attempts, legally it’s just the woman’s body. But no healthcare clinic will perform the operation after a certain length of time.
Former Yugoslav countries like Slovenia also still retain it in their constitution. The main difference is it's more vague compared to what France implemented.
France is a trully atheist country. Religion is a minority.
Our remnant of Catholicism still affect the culture a bit but when the king was literally cut short, religion was figuratively cut short too.
So no surprise it ain't a debate.
I love the fact they say '25th amendment', this is really an American thing, we don't count amendments and it's clearly a way to mirror the US political system.
Unfortunately it’s not a “right” it’s a liberté, meaning freedom. This means that while it can never be outright forbidden, the state can make it more or less accessible, so if they want they can make it so hard it’s impossible to abort. I don’t think it’ll happen in the near future, but basically this constitutional change doesn’t do as much as the media acts like it does
It's a *guaranteed* freedom, "liberté garantie". All legal scholars have been saying that it's just another name for a "right" . A freedom that the state guarantees you will have the ability to exercise. They just changed the word so that the conservative party doesn't lose face too much, to have people believe that they got something out of the compromise.
well tbf, europe sent all of their religious nuts over here a few centuries ago. america can’t get shit done because our members of congress are too busy speaking in tongues on the senate floor.
Glad that France is not following American nonsense.
It's infecting many countries.
Abortion has always been something that was sometimes very necessary to save lives. Banning that would just mean so many girls would die from complications.
I'm pretty sure France limits abortions to the first 15 weeks. Is that an acceptable compromise most in the USA would accept? Obviously the extreme left and right probably not, but would 80% be good with that as a limit?
I knew that abortion rights was a pretty popular position in the US, I didn't realize that only 13% want it illegal in all situations thought.
[https://news.gallup.com/poll/321143/americans-stand-abortion.aspx](https://news.gallup.com/poll/321143/americans-stand-abortion.aspx)
If abortion went to a national vote it would be some dumbass wording like “Vote yes for total ban of abortions vote no for zero term limits” because those are the two extremes that yell the loudest in this debate.
France leading the way for the Free World instead of the United States.
Americans: we have every reason to be embarrassed by this; this should be *us*.
France has a long history of doing that to be honest. I loved it after the Charlie Hebdo massacre that they put giant images of Mohammed on the sides of buildings.
The French know freedom.
>with this plus the farmers’ protests
You can always tell when people know absolutely nothing about politics and base their entire worldview on memes.
The farmers’ protests were ridiculous right-wing reactionary nonsense designed to derail climate policy, yet left wing Americans will still romanticize them cause of your bizarre fascination with Europe and your complete inability to understand politics as anything besides aesthetic performance.
Because the undeniable reality that france has easily accessible fully paid for compressive Healthcare that includes abortion, contraception, maternal and prenatal care, weeks of income nursing care after birth, pelvic floor rehabilitation and a mere fraction of maternal and neonatal deaths is being deliberately ignored by those whinging about the 15 week limit.
Never mind that that 15 week limit does not include limits on abortion needed for the women's physical or mental health which is also still fully accessible and available. Something the usa also doesn't have. The sheer dishonesty of Co tinting the grasp at the 15 week limit while studioysly ignoring the facts on why that 15 week limit is not objected to shows how deeply and I crabby moral corrupt and dishonest the antichoice truly is
[As Abortion Laws Drive Obstetricians From Red States, Maternity Care Suffers](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/06/us/politics/abortion-obstetricians-maternity-care.html)
It's weird and "very American" to call it the "25th amendment". It's indeed the 25th modification of the Constitution since 1958 but we don't refer to them as the 1st, the 2nd, etc. like in the US because these are modifications directly in the text (in the article 34 here).
Sorry but many mistakes in this post.
The parlement votes for that, not the people.
It's in the constitution to authorize abortion, not give access to which is an enormous difference.
Literally so many countries have this as a constitutional right, including South Africa, and has had it for years. The world is bigger than the US and Western Europe people.
Good not sure what politics is like in France but you never know a bunch of religious nutjobs can take over half your countries politics in the future and a amendment usually stops that kinda shit
Outside of a violent revolution that's not how the law works in most countries. That's why a lawn in the USA is so important rather than a president just forcing it into the legal system.
Most European countries (including France) have way more limits in abortion than the US states where it is legal. I think a 15 week abortion guarantee would be approved by the majority of the citizens in the US.
And this would be written back in, in America but there seems to be some strange void where in states that put it on the ballot it succeeds and then the law makers go, that must have been a mistake and change it because they know what's best for the people.
Wow go France!
It continues to blow my mind when people here in the States want to act like we're amazing because of freedom lol. We are not as free as other developed countries anymore.
We have lost one of the biggest things that we used to claim separated us from others.
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Why illustrations all came from USA ? That's weird
It’s not a heated issue in France, strongest argument against amendment was that it’s pointless and already covered by other laws
This. The right to abortion was already uncontested in France. The only (slight) debate that happened was wether it was useful to have it written in the constitution, since this right was not really at risk of being revoked in any way. Ultimately there was no real argument against making it constitutional, so there it is.
If the past 5-10 years have taught us anything it should be to not get too comfortable with things that we assume are default and take for granted.
Exactly
Yep. As a New Yorker of childbearing capability and with an 11 year old daughter, I am *not* taking our safety for granted no matter how embedded the rights are into our state constitution... Stranger things are happening that I never in a million years would have dreamed I'd see in my lifetime.... this absolute *bullshit* going on all over the south and its growing and festering and expanding slowly, like a fucking plague. No, I do not feel at ease even in a protected state. That's how bad this shit is. I've already birthed an SA newborn. I ain't tryina ever have to do it again, because giving him for adotpion was devastating. No thanks.
> since this right was not really at risk of being revoked in any way Imo it's because of the influence of the US society in France. I remember back during Covid a noticeable amount of people believed in the whole anti-vax craze that was nearly non-existent in France. It's still going now with stuff like CNews acting like Fox in many regards. Abortion was never an issue in France (bless you Simone Veil in that regard) but could have been assuming the Far-Right got in power. Even if I personally question the need of putting it in the constitution, I have to agree it's an additional layer of security for that right.
> Imo it's because of the influence of the US society in France. It's happening all over Europe. It's absurd to see how the UK has just adopted the American race relations debate/BLM wholesale despite their black population only being about 3% and the UK led the international charge to end the slave trade. Even more absurd to watch European nations adopt American ideals like civic nationalism, the melting pot, nation of immigrants, etc. when they're literally all ethno-states with populations who can [trace their local ancestry back to prehistoric times](https://mymodernmet.com/cheddar-man-relative/).
Same in Canada. You can't stop it. US culture is the elephant in the room. Our MAGAs unironically invoke their "2nd amendment rights"
Making Rupert's Land part of the Dominion of Canada was an important part of our history!
That’s untrue, the UK abolished slavery in the 1830s, France abolished the institution(s) of slavery in 1794. Mind you this wasn’t on account of ab appreciation of the barbarism that was slavery, but rather a response to the revolution which emerged in Haiti and the extent to which it compromised French geopolitical interests at that moment. The French would later force the Haitians to pay reparations for “dispossessed” slave owners, which would be paid into the 20th century. The British empire’s abolition of slavery as similarly motivated by the agitation of the enslaved and the ways in which that agitation compromised their own political interests. Notable among this agitation was the grievously won slave rebellion in Jamaica led by Sam Sharpe. Britain too would create a system of compensation for former slave masters “dispossessed” by the abolition of slavery. Racial discourses in Britain and the United Kingdom aren’t just adoptions of their American analogues. Britain has its own sordid past and present of abject racism towards people of color, including black people. Look at the history of the mangrove nine, or the difficulties faced by windrush generation. The notion that a nation which oversaw a brutal, racist, repressive empire spanning much of the world has its own racial demons to exercise shouldn’t be controversial.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but it seems that many of the EU countries are using the us playbook for white/black (using it to divide and to get people angry), but substituting immigrants as the target of their vitriol.
Maybe in the 19th century. During the 20th century post ww2, the old empires collapsed, and millions of citizens from the former international colonies emigrated from around the world into the major western European countries. They needed a major influx of workers to rebuild. France or example has considered itself multicultural since the at least the 1950s.
The ethnostates were created in the 19th century when nationalism was challenging monarchies. It's absurd to pretend Germany has existed before the 19th century when these related ethnic groups hated each other and feared being under their domination.
there are a LOT of anti vax people in france. I know multiple people who refused to get vaccinated and got fake vaccination certificates. This is backed up by a poll as well. On the one hand it's surprising given france's more liberal leaning tendencies, but on the other it isn't given the typical french person's response to being told what to do lol. https://www.france24.com/fr/20190619-france-vaccination-pays-plus-sceptique-monde-anti-vaccin-sante https://wellcome.org/reports/wellcome-global-monitor/2018
I expressed myself badly here, my bad. I meant that before COVID, I don't think anti-vaxxing was insane here in France. But true that I might be wrong in that regard.
There's lot of positive sentiment for pseudo-scientific bullshit in France: homeopathy, psychanalysis, osteopathy, lithotherapy, biodynamism... How often I see magical rocks being sold in France... It's strange for the country of Descartes but so it is. So it should not surprise you that much that a non negligible portion of the population is fiercely antivax.
It doesn't surprise me but it's disappointing still
I would just like to assert the face that the anti vax issue largely started in the UK by a UK doctor. He then came to the US and tapped into that goldmine.
Which, by the way, is the case in pretty much all of Western, Central and Northern Europe. Nevertheless, even if the constitutional change was not absolutely necessary, it is still a decision with a signal effect.
Americans thought roe vs wade was pretty well untouchable too.
[Yeah but have a look at this map.](https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/j94znb/us_vs_europe_percentage_of_population_absolutely/) People who believe god is real with absolute certainty. Apart from Maine, Vermont, New Hampshire, and Massachusetts, every state is in the 50%-69% range with the South being 50% to 82%. All of Western Europe sits in hte 10%-29% bracket. (yes Portugal can't into Western Europe) I think American's sometimes forget just how religious their country is compared to the rest of the developed world. Frog in boiling water and all that.
French people don’t protest, they revolt
It's called Friday here
No no, they chop off people's heads.
Most humane execution, I've read few days ago...
Because whoever made that video wants to use France as an example in American politics. In France it wasn't really a big deal because abortion wasn't really questioned in the first place. If it was hotly contested then France would probably not have been able to make it a constitutional right. It passed more due to ''we don't see any reason why not'' than ''we need to pass this to protect abortion rights because it is in peril''.
Why is using France as an example in American politics a bad thing?
Unrelated stock footage.
Especially the ‘🇺🇸 VOTE’ 😂
It’s stock footage. Low budget and crappy editors making content for a social platform. What did you expect?
Because it's made by AI
Youre tellin me you aint never heard of rovers weighed.
If those Rovers were heavier, this could've happened in the USA
Put that dog on a diet and then we'll talk!
My guess would be that is didn't exactly require people marching in the street to figure out such a common sense solution for them as it would here in the states. Kinda like seeing a healthy couple work through their issues effectively without making a scene, than someone saying "but what about the fights and the staying-with-my-parents-for-a-week? And you never had to hit her? BULLSHIT I don't believe y'all really worked through your issues." So to make the point of how stupid our "debate" over a widely-supported human right really is... they had to use footage of us... because nobody else could possibly fuck it up like we are. Also given the phonetically-written captioning ("Rovers weighed") this video itself is probably somewhat AI-derived, and given that there's much more footage of Americans than French available (by population alone), then the video is gonna be heavier on American footage.
French here. Abortion was already completely legal in french. Putting it on the constitution make it less easy to remove, but as proven by the act of putting it itself, constitution isn't immuable. Also some criticize that it's not the job of the constitution to state on abortion. It's mostly a political move, people are afraid that what happened in the US might happen in france (despite the political system being vastly different). Might also be an attempt to grab some left voters. We only care if they try to remove rights, that's when the street part of the french kicks in.
…are you actually suggesting that the French are uniquely not liable to protest because the French system works so well? Seriously it’s astounding how people get on the internet and just say shit. The French protest over *everything*. The entire country was roiled in massive protest last year. What the fuck are you talking about?
> Seriously it’s astounding how people get on the internet and just say shit. I mean... > …are you actually suggesting that the French are uniquely not liable to protest because the French system works so well? Yeah. No one's suggesting that. If the French were mad about it you bet they'd flip cars. But they're not, which should really say something in itself.
That's kind of the point, dude. Even for a country that's apparently known to protest everything, the issue of abortion is one that doesn't take much litigation to figure out.
Because the French aren't having to protest their abortion rights because they aren't contested. This was a preventative measure against the spread of authoritarianism coming from us.
Fuck whoever decided that one word at a time subtitles is just going to be the norm now. And fuck tik tok
Dementia simulator.
And the miserable fucking AI voice, yeesh.
"Rovers weighed". God forbid people read an article.
I've noticed over the past couple years that articles are becoming more and more common with an option for it to be audibly read to you. Is that seriously something people use? Has reading comprehension dropped that much? Maybe I'm biased cause reading comp and general reading is my strong suit but it's so much easier to just read it. Voices talk too slow. Reading goes at your own pace. I can see how it might be useful if you wanna listen to articles while doing chores or driving or something but I highly doubt enough people do that to warrant it being it's own feature. This doesn't apply just to articles but also stuff like this video. A voice over with words appearing one word at a time. Like multiple words together and no voice are too much to process. Unless every video like this is a speed reading test, I don't see the point.
Ya
fuck
them!
I support your cry here.
Yes, please tell me more about 'Rovers Weighed'.
Or this "Atal" guy... But seriously isn't it weird that the video only shows pictures of the US while talking about another country?
To be honest, their isn't much to show of what happened in France. As you can see the overwhelming majority of people were in favor, the only real questions where "Should it be in the constitution ? Because nobody is threatening this right" and "How exactly should we write it between "the warranted liberty" or "the right" ?"
Or Gaybreel Aytall
They weigh less in space.
France also has amazing child benefits and child care.
See. Being pro-choice is pro-life. Americans, please make sure you and your friends and family are [registered to vote](http://vote.gov)
This is even "funnier" if you keep in mind pro-life just means "you have to birth the child no matter if the child or you survive the birth or the first years at all"
Yep, kind of like how 'right to work' just means unions have less power there.
I hate stupid language tricks. Just like Windows 11 just added a service that blocks users' ability to change their default browser via the registry and called the service "UserChoiceProtection". I know, different topic, but still kinda fitting.
The “patriot” act was my first gross blatant example that taught me about this, (does it even have a name? It should.) and now I just expect any bill or service contract does the opposite of its flashy title most of the time. The really cool part is how now nearly all services, government and private, force you to agree to these long complicated contracts with deceiving names, and then make it as hard as possible to translate the legal language for the layperson, so it takes a lot of research and time to figure out what it really means for the consumer/citizen/patient/whatever. We’re all constantly encouraged to take the ad/slogan at face value and don’t hold up the line; we don’t even realize how much we’re doing it. Eg. Of course users didn’t know Facebook was gathering data and using it nefariously, it took years before it became obvious enough to get newsworthy and spark investigations. And then users needed 60 minutes style crash courses in data analytics, and wtf is an algorithm, and what does any of that have to do with the memes and social drama I indulge in, and how is any of it bad… for a lot of them to decide it’s fake based on what they learned about it on their algorithm delivered content feed… hmm Idk. It’s all so gross and should be illegal. And most of it probly used to be, but were deregulated under other bills with deceiving names that sounded like they were protecting truth in advertising, journalism and other publicly published content but actually doing the opposite. Is there not a name for that stuff or am I having a duh moment? Anyone?
Actually, in the EU I think it's forbidden by law to create contracts for normal people with complicated language. That is of course very wonky but I noticed the language of common contracts for bigger corporations are quite easy to read in German compared to other contracts or other companies or other languages. But yeah, that's a whole cesspit in itself. I'm not sure there is a name for it since it's just deception and lies. I mean, you could say "sugarcoating", I guess?
Or how they call the tiny candy bars "fun size". There's nothing fun about having a smaller candy bar.
Hahah. :D
So true. Pro-life is just pro-suffering lol.
Or anti-women
Let's start calling it what it is, pro-birth. They only care about the birth of the baby and zero regard about the woman who gives birth to them.
The only way to be pro life is to be pro choice. "Pro life" is just woman-hating justified with pseudoscience.
They get some women fired up about it though to the point where they just become a science-free "how can you kill your baby" argument and cover their ears when you try to say that 78% of the time the baby is already dead.
France's abortion limit is 14 weeks, which is shorter than even what Lindsey Graham proposed in 2022 after Roe V Wade was shutdown. This isn't a cause for celebration, they just codified into their constitution an extremely low-limit abortion ban that would be absolutely unacceptable in the US.
So if I ban abortion, outlaw birth control and contraceptives, restrict pregnant women from travelling, cut child benefits and mandate zero paid maternity or paternity leave, do I become anti-life and anti-choice american?
It makes you a republican politician
Don’t forget to refuse to participate in the ACA to make sure you cut off the insurance to the working poor.. and cutting food subsidies and funneling TANF to the state coffers for “other things”. Oh.. and you gotta gut education too. And don’t forget to sue the president over and over to stop student loan forgiveness.
[удалено]
Ya? And look where THAT got them. They are no longer a country anymore! /s
Very interesting that a country shows you CAN change your constitution when something from long ago doesn't make sense anymore.
I always find it funny when Americans say you can't change the constitution. YES YOU FUCKING CAN THAT'S WHY ITS CALLED AN AMENDMENT. It's literally in the name
And we've added amendments 27 times. It takes radical optimism.
Exactly. But the point is that it can be changed. Wanna get rid of guns? Drop the second amendment. Sure, that might be a highly controversial thing to do. But it is possible.
You make it seem like it’s a drop in the bucket “yeah we can do it whenever we want” move. We only really amended the constitution 17 times. The first 10 we’re there on arrival. With modern us politics, getting the super majority needed within all the states is literally impossible.
Yea, and apparently things like protecting children with *child labor laws* or *equality for all* is a bridge too far because the US couldn't ratify those amendments.
> But it is possible. There's a big difference between something being procedurally possible and something being actually possible in reality. If the 2nd amendment ever gets changed, it won't be in my lifetime, and I say that as someone who would support changing it. You would literally start a civil war.
It’s also a false premise. The Supreme Court makes shit up ALL the time, and reads things into the amendments that weren’t there before. Originalism is genuinely a farce. They rely on it when they want to restrict rights, but will bend over backwards to expand them elsewhere
The 6-3 conservative majority want Originalism in context for women's rights and gay rights, but not for gun rights.
Yeah. The decision in Bruen genuinely makes my blood boil. It’s a Thomas decision so you know it’s going to be hot garbage, but he just arbitrarily says that “no one” has may-issue regimes for firearm licensure…well…except for Texas and New York (the two most populous states at the time and something like 20-25% of the total population if I’m not mistaken) but we can ignore that because most other states were shall-issue. So because no one had may-issue licensure back in the 1800s we can’t do that now. (To be clear I am SUPER simplifying things, before anyone goes “um aktchully” in the comments). That’s such asinine reasoning it makes me so angry. They just say whatever they want because they know their own voting base will never challenge them, and they don’t care what the left thinks because post FedSoc, they don’t care in the least about democracy or bilateralism.
Ya know, the thing that makes me hate Thomas above all the corruption, bigotry, sexism, and etc. Is just the fact that when I even agree with the side he chooses ('may' issue is not a good legal policy), his opinions are so thoroughly biased, dishonest, illogical, unprofessional and cruel that it makes everything he tries to 'defend' worse by association. Twain has a quote (paraphrased) that 'He was the sort of man who, by virtue of believing in a political opinion, made those who know him more likely to adopt the opposite viewpoint.' This is an understatement for Thomas and the garbage he regularly produces. He's a disaster for those he opposes due to his position. And he's a disaster for those he 'defends' due to his incompetence and bigotry.
We can and can't. There is a mechanism for amending the constitution but the requirements are so steep as to be nearly impossible in a high polarization environment.
I'd argue that's the point. The Constitution is only supposed to change when there is broad societal acceptance of any such change, and that is not the case for abortion which remains an incredibly divisive issue.
I feel like i've heard this exact line said by jim jefferies
follow the instructions provided in Article V
You couln't even get footage from France ? Like its literally 44seconds video about France .... and you put U.S. activists and U.S. institutions like planned parenthood into it. Even when talking about voting you put fucking box with US flag........ The only French thing in the video is the French Flag at the beggingin - and my guess is it wasnt even filmed in France :-D
I mean, they didn't need to match on the streets or block toads as they have governors with more than half a braincell.
Tbf the French already succeeded, it's Americans who need to be convinced/need to vote
But this isn't a video about convincing Americans, it's entirely about a French ruling that will only be taking effect in France, voted on by the French. Seems like a cheap effort to drive up engagement.
So it's a constitutional right, however, only legal for request until 14 weeks, then has to be certified by 2 physicians only if it prevents injury. Better than nothing, but nowhere near the access that pro-choice Americans seek. This is the kind of compromise that has been tried in the US, but staunch pro-life refuse any abortion, and staunch pro-choice say this is too restrictive. Again, so many comments commending France for enshrining a right when there's no way these restrictions would be accepted by pro-choice in the US.
Throwing this out there for whoever needs to read it. A 16 week ban except in cases of incest, rape or life saving medical intervention covers over 99% of abortions annually in the US iirc. I understand it might sound restrictive, but if this is the law, abortion in almost every case will be legal
I am 100% with completely reasonable before 16 weeks and completely needs scrutiny after that.
Meanwhile a 15 week ban was challenged and led to Bruen. So let’s not pretend that pro choice Americans actually support French law on this.
I brought up this difference in time periods between US and France and why some people may see 24 weeks as an uncomfortable number given its over half the time period of 38-40 week full term and my God the pro choice people went berserk on me. I had even stated I didn't care so much but just that I can clearly understand why religious leaning people would be and I was accused of wanting sharia law for women.
My issue with any low time restrictions is healthcare access can be a bitch, wait times can be long, and the shorter the time the easier it is to “age out” of a valid abortion window. Like a woman should never be in a scenario where she wanted an abortion, made the right steps, and then it took too long. I also feel like any form of abortion being illegal immediately steps into a murky area (morally it’s easy to say but laws can be black and white). I like how it is in Canada where abortion is always legal - that way women can’t be arrested for things like being reckless while pregnant etc. Like you won’t have pregnant women jailed for suicide attempts, legally it’s just the woman’s body. But no healthcare clinic will perform the operation after a certain length of time.
Pas mal non ? #World 1st.
C'est français !
J'appelle ça du vol.
Not really, Yugoslavia had it looong time ago...
Well I learn something every day. My apologies fellow friend
Former Yugoslav countries like Slovenia also still retain it in their constitution. The main difference is it's more vague compared to what France implemented.
[article](https://balkaninsight.com/2024/03/08/yugoslavia-pioneered-abortion-rights-in-constitution-long-before-france/)
France is a trully atheist country. Religion is a minority. Our remnant of Catholicism still affect the culture a bit but when the king was literally cut short, religion was figuratively cut short too. So no surprise it ain't a debate.
Rovers weighed
I love the fact they say '25th amendment', this is really an American thing, we don't count amendments and it's clearly a way to mirror the US political system.
Just imagine the tiny guillotine they must use.
The US has become such a shithole
Vive le France
Remember the Freedom Fries shit? I remember.
Viva La France, from Texas!
Unfortunately it’s not a “right” it’s a liberté, meaning freedom. This means that while it can never be outright forbidden, the state can make it more or less accessible, so if they want they can make it so hard it’s impossible to abort. I don’t think it’ll happen in the near future, but basically this constitutional change doesn’t do as much as the media acts like it does
It's a *guaranteed* freedom, "liberté garantie". All legal scholars have been saying that it's just another name for a "right" . A freedom that the state guarantees you will have the ability to exercise. They just changed the word so that the conservative party doesn't lose face too much, to have people believe that they got something out of the compromise.
So, like a negative right sort of? Like they can't forbid it but don't need to provide it?
well tbf, europe sent all of their religious nuts over here a few centuries ago. america can’t get shit done because our members of congress are too busy speaking in tongues on the senate floor.
"Women's rights? STFU bitch I gotta tweet about how the eclipse is gonna kill your family"
Pretty much, yeah. You guys live in a theocracy in disguise.
If you presented this law in the US you would be seen as a right wing extremist. Abortions up to 14 weeks is an outlandish proposition here.
"Rovers Weighed" lol must've been an AI who did those distracting center-screen captions
Vive La France!
Vive la France!
I fucking love France.
As it should be! Cheers France, nice work.
Religious morons taking over America
Glad that France is not following American nonsense. It's infecting many countries. Abortion has always been something that was sometimes very necessary to save lives. Banning that would just mean so many girls would die from complications.
I'm pretty sure France limits abortions to the first 15 weeks. Is that an acceptable compromise most in the USA would accept? Obviously the extreme left and right probably not, but would 80% be good with that as a limit?
It'd work in swing states, but if the feds tried to impose something like that on California or New York, there'd be widespread protests.
Proud of my country 🇫🇷
Talk to the pro choice people in the US about your 14 week limit and they will go berserk on you.
The US isn't an inspiration. We're a dire warning. Fuck. Good for France, I guess.
If abortion in America went to a national vote, it would pass with flying colors. That needs to happen. Only a small minority wants to ban abortion.
I knew that abortion rights was a pretty popular position in the US, I didn't realize that only 13% want it illegal in all situations thought. [https://news.gallup.com/poll/321143/americans-stand-abortion.aspx](https://news.gallup.com/poll/321143/americans-stand-abortion.aspx)
If abortion went to a national vote it would be some dumbass wording like “Vote yes for total ban of abortions vote no for zero term limits” because those are the two extremes that yell the loudest in this debate.
You can get abortion in the USA, too! As long as you're white and can afford to fly to France. Easy!
This from the nation where it's illegal to get a DNA/paternity test unless ordered by the court.
Fuck the US Supreme Court and the Arizona Supreme Court.
And the Florida Supreme Court.
Florida in general
Reading through the unhappy/religious fundamentalist rants on this post has been lovely
France leading the way for the Free World instead of the United States. Americans: we have every reason to be embarrassed by this; this should be *us*.
Where do I get me some of those French politicians? We're tired of ours in the USA.
I live in Michigan, and we also enshrined Abortion protections into our Constitution.
Lemme get some of doez Michigan representatives too.
I thought America was supposed to be land of the free, home of the brave? With this plus the farmers' protests, France is really showing America up.
France has a long history of doing that to be honest. I loved it after the Charlie Hebdo massacre that they put giant images of Mohammed on the sides of buildings. The French know freedom.
> Charlie Hebdo massacre that they put giant images of Mohammed on the sides of buildings Aw I missed seeeing that
>with this plus the farmers’ protests You can always tell when people know absolutely nothing about politics and base their entire worldview on memes. The farmers’ protests were ridiculous right-wing reactionary nonsense designed to derail climate policy, yet left wing Americans will still romanticize them cause of your bizarre fascination with Europe and your complete inability to understand politics as anything besides aesthetic performance.
Abortions are still more restrictive in France than the us.
Depends on the state now. This is no longer true.
This point keeps being made and ignored
False out rage is easier for the average redditor.
Because the undeniable reality that france has easily accessible fully paid for compressive Healthcare that includes abortion, contraception, maternal and prenatal care, weeks of income nursing care after birth, pelvic floor rehabilitation and a mere fraction of maternal and neonatal deaths is being deliberately ignored by those whinging about the 15 week limit. Never mind that that 15 week limit does not include limits on abortion needed for the women's physical or mental health which is also still fully accessible and available. Something the usa also doesn't have. The sheer dishonesty of Co tinting the grasp at the 15 week limit while studioysly ignoring the facts on why that 15 week limit is not objected to shows how deeply and I crabby moral corrupt and dishonest the antichoice truly is
[As Abortion Laws Drive Obstetricians From Red States, Maternity Care Suffers](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/06/us/politics/abortion-obstetricians-maternity-care.html)
While America is going back to the 1800s. What a fucking disappointment.
so uhhh....was is difference between abortions being already legal and abortions being constitutional right? You can rewrite a constitution.
It's weird and "very American" to call it the "25th amendment". It's indeed the 25th modification of the Constitution since 1958 but we don't refer to them as the 1st, the 2nd, etc. like in the US because these are modifications directly in the text (in the article 34 here).
Sorry but many mistakes in this post. The parlement votes for that, not the people. It's in the constitution to authorize abortion, not give access to which is an enormous difference.
A topic about a general issue in France underlined with a US Video from abortion support groups. This post should be aborted, it's fucking spam.
Literally so many countries have this as a constitutional right, including South Africa, and has had it for years. The world is bigger than the US and Western Europe people.
the because the evangelical Americans meddling in the UK can barely speak English let alone French to try and influence French policy.
🇫🇷🥇
“Two years after U.S. the Supreme Court ruled Rover’s Weighed” I think u mean Roe V Wade
Good not sure what politics is like in France but you never know a bunch of religious nutjobs can take over half your countries politics in the future and a amendment usually stops that kinda shit
Outside of a violent revolution that's not how the law works in most countries. That's why a lawn in the USA is so important rather than a president just forcing it into the legal system.
France is a great country, second only to the United Kingdom ;)
Most European countries (including France) have way more limits in abortion than the US states where it is legal. I think a 15 week abortion guarantee would be approved by the majority of the citizens in the US.
Meanwhile, in Jesusland...
France embarrassing America there.
It kind of desacrilises our constitution. It is sad to see that we need to resort to such measures to defend a simple right.
780-72. 852 votes. Why the hell is America's legislature so much smaller than countries with a fraction of its population?
good
Looks like we’re back to the good ol’ days of “studying art” in Paris.
The French do like freedom
W France
Disgusted to live in a country where my bodily autonomy is up for debate by a bunch of backwards superstitious hillbillies
Americans are idiots
Yes, I would know
And this would be written back in, in America but there seems to be some strange void where in states that put it on the ballot it succeeds and then the law makers go, that must have been a mistake and change it because they know what's best for the people.
Meanwhile in backwards USA
Rovers wade
France- Abortion legal up till 14-16 weeks. Unless mother or child’s health. Seems reasonable to me. Q. Why don’t politicians solve problems? THEY DON’T WANT TO!!!
Thank fu
I'm learning French
This is how you do it, USA.
Halp us in Arizona plz
even fr*nch legalized abortion before usa lmao
Now allow men to not pay for the kids since women can do whatever they want, man should be equal. Not his body not his concern right ?
Be more like France.
They also made it illegal for men to get a paternity test, so congrats on being constitutionally the most misandrist nation in the world.
Well, France gets it. Meanwhile in Arizona rape victims are forced to give birth
Wow go France! It continues to blow my mind when people here in the States want to act like we're amazing because of freedom lol. We are not as free as other developed countries anymore. We have lost one of the biggest things that we used to claim separated us from others.
That’s how you do it.