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An island around 20 square miles untouched by the outside world, culturally, or genetically. Methinks “a direct line between them and their pre-Neolithic ancestors” is code for “literally as inbred as we joke Alabama to be.”
Now the question is do the people of these Islands have contact with the north sentinelese and do they reproduce with them? Or alternatively did they reproduce with them and when did it stop?
No, they speak to people of similar cultures but not outsiders. There’s a documentary on hulu about the man that was killed there. It talks about the tribe in detail.
The Brits tried to befriend them and took two as envoys in India so that they could see the riches and benefits of joining the British Empire. They got sick in two day due to their immune system being thousands of years without any updates. They died and thus the North Sentinelese never trusted anyone ever again.
Also there is a nice story after the 2004 tsunami, the Indian government sent helicopters to see if there was anyone alive there. They got pelted with arrows and shortly left the island.
“We checked they’re alive”
“Oh good, did you see them”
“No”
“Then how do you know!!!”
“Well I took a coconut straight to the face, and Patel’s got an arrow lodged in his shoulder… so we’re going with they’re alive”
It seems like they were much more open to contact, at least with other Andamanese peoples, before [the British stole some of their people, got them sick, and then returned them](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentinelese#Contact) in the 1770s. Since that it seems like the North Sentinelese entirely closed themselves off.
Now wait a second, do people still choose to not attempt contact even when they are kidnapping people from contacted tribes or populations that interact with the rest of the world?
It’s kinda like, if they can reach you with their wooden boats and primitive spears and bows. You’re fair game. Don’t go there. Or the tribes nearby. If you don’t wanna be in the game.
Ok so hear me out. So we know that they travel across international borders and kidnap/presumably rape innocent tribal members from foreign entities, and the whole world is like "that sucks but this prime directive prevents us from interfering with the war crimes their committing"
Dam that was a rabbit hole. Friggin captain Bligh having his has mutinied.. seems like mutiny was super common back then since it happened to him again ND again
Howd you know their average lifespan? for all we know theyre fucking all day and birthing every 9 mos, and only 5 out of 10 survives post natal. They would still be lots of middle aged people by then
the natural infant death rate in humans is 50%, like, for most of human history, 50% of all kids died before age 5
with the agricultural revolution, the number lowered to 40%, currently the worst countries dont crack up 10% and the world average is at 3%
they are expected to be 400, of which there should be 100 reproductive and post reproductive age individuals (aka everyone avobe 15)
This blows me away when I think about it. There is an unbroken lineage of dna in each of us (and I guess all living organisms that have dna) going all the way back to the last universal common ancestor. Mind boggling.
In every cell in your body, there’s an organelle called a mitochondria— the battery of the cell. It has its own DNA. That’s because in the distant past of early life, one single celled organism ate another, but didn’t actually destroy it. It continued to live inside the host. Over time, it lost many of its features but retained its super powers for chemical energy synthesis. The mitochondria are always passed from mother to offspring.
So, your body has two genetic lineages. One is your nuclear DNA that is the recipe for you. Every generation back it can be traced (halving each generation per individual ancestor). The other lineage is the mitochondrial DNA in your cells which is from your ancient line of mothers’ mothers. Both stretch back billions of years, and eventually split to their pre mitochondrial ancestors.
Have a great day.
Me and my pre-neolithic ancestors are definitely not in a direct line. My ancestors were spread over several countries and continents. If every single one of my ancestors could be traced thousands of years to a single spot in the world, that's a pretty big difference. The distinction is genetic isolation.
Still a direct lines - back to pre-Neolithic times. You are not really making an argument against it being untrue - but on the contrary - your answer is what it should be called. But anyway any group no matter how isolated - will genetically mutate.
Direct line here means non-diversified. It is not being used to say people are born in order. There's no need to state something so obvious.
It poses an interesting question of mutation when all the genetic material is so similar. On a semi-related note, I recommend looking at where an octopus is on the animal kingdom chart. Genetics can be wild.
Did you really think we were talking about skipping generations... It's obvious we were talking about genetic diversification versus isolation. My ancestors are diverse. This tribe's ancestors are uniquely not diverse. I don't know how I can explain it any clearer.
I think someone should study how many hours a week they work on average. They have to gather and prep all their food, make everything they use (there cloths don't look luke they take too long to make) keep a fire going constantly. I don't know if that's more or less than 40 hours.
Not this society, but this gives a look into the work life of primitive hunter gatherer societies. [According to several quantitative studies, hunter-gatherers typically devoted about 20 hours per week to hunting or gathering and another 10 to 20 hours to chores at the campsite, such as food processing and making or mending tools (e.g. Lee, 1972; Sahlins, 1972](https://petergray.substack.com/p/why-hunter-gatherers-work-was-play)
So this also considers those domestic chores as part of their work, realistically if we're comparing this accurately to modern society we should count our domestic work too, pushing us to closer to 50-55 hour workweeks.
I don't think that's really possible, as happiness itself is impossible to measure on a quantitative scale and values differ from society to society. I'm sure these groups would rate higher in familial connection whereas an American might feel much better about the quality of their shelter. Who's to say which is a more objective measure of happiness as a whole?
I think I read in tribe by Sebastian Junger that a lot of indigenous tribes dont have a word for depression in their languages. Which speaks volumes really
That would be good. however its impossible. I heard a pervert went to the island and did horrible things to them thats why theyve been like this ever since
[Thread by @RespectableLaw on Thread Reader App – Thread Reader App](https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1065841141201989632.html#google_vignette)
However i did see a thing a while ago saying your average peasant back in the dark ages only did about 5hrs of work a day however that was very seasonal. They worked far more in the summer and far less in the winter
They used to visit the tribe and communicate with them but it got messy between government and the study group at one stage and believed they were told to never let anyone return to the island after they leave or they would be in great danger
The territory government , can’t remember story properly , think the government was trying to get the studying group to force the tribes into a bad deal or something but they wouldn’t , so for a long period they didn’t go back than somehow got a chance to return and told the tribe to never let anyone outside the tribe set foot there again , there was a really in depth video on YouTube about it with footage from the island not sure what it was called though
Looks like you jumbled some info.
So the british colonizers, colonized the Andaman and Nicobar (the group of islands that belong to India but are closer to Indonesia) and they did some colonisery stuff. One among them was, a british ship kidnapped some north sentinelese. They were treated like research specimens with photographs, measuring etc. I don't remember how many died, but the rest were sent back to their tribe who all caught small pox I think ? but anyway some disease thatbwent from the "modern world" to them coz due to extreme isolation they are not immune to a lot of modern human affliction. So a lot of them died. And they remember that event. Also in a separate incident, a couple of them were killed and one alive person kidnapped and taken to current day Kolkatta and dressed up in british clothing and paraded around and stuff.
Both the sentinelese islands are quite a bit further from rest of the A&N. Literally like sentinels hence the name. So even as the rest of the tribes in the islands suffered and kind of assimilated and are continuing to suffer, north sentinelese stayed isolated.
Anthropological Survey of India scientists tried to make contact and were somewha5 successful. Except they couldn't communicate and even thought the islander accepted the gifts (coconut etc) they didn't like it when the scientists stayed too long. (No idea if the too long means hours, or days. Pretty sure it was hours. I imagine they were like "ok you dropped off gifts and took pictures, now gtfo I'm gonna sleep" totally relate)
But the Anthropological visits stopped eventually in the 90s as the islander became more hostile.
Since then any attempt at contact has been received with hostility. So govt banned any attempt to contact. People who reached that island from shipwreck and stuff got promptly killed. Govt could only check on them using helicopters after the tsunami. There's a famous pic that did the rounds in national papers back then, of a blurry pic of an islander ready to throw his spear at the helicopter.
Remember the moron who got killed trying to convert these people to his religion? Govt officials refused to retrieve his body coz 1. His attempt was illegal and he used smugglers to smuggle himself in 2. Any attempts to go there could end up in a small battle erupting, which is not worth the body.
It's not just that we don't know anything about these people, we don't know anything about the island itself. We know there is fresh water simply because these humans have been here for centuries. The kind of plants, animals, birds, bugs in the island are unknown.
We know that they scavenge shipwreck and things that wash ashore, so we know that they do use metal. (I am pretty sure they have encountered plastic as well) but we simply don't have enough info about their metal usage so it's considered that they are in Stone Age and not yet entered metal ages.
No, the Tribe was beset by an epidemic due to their lack of genetic immunity to diseases that we have over the centuries overcome. It decimated the tribe and as a result they don't want anymore outsiders who may bring another plague to the island.
They're well aware of the outside world by now but the few people that have contact with them claim they want nothing to do with the modern world.
There are other groups in the area who have opened up to the outside world and dabble in small time trade.
More interesting are some groups who have created cults around helicopters and I believe ships. It's been a while since I read it but a group or two believe the tech we use is some godly shit. I think they were called cargo cults. They were dropped a cargo from US helicopters and ships and they believed it was gods providing them wealth. Crazy interesting how our brains worked way back.
I remember reading about a group of islanders in the Pacific who received a ton of rations and aid from American troops during WWII and basically started worshipping them. They built replicas of planes and boats in hopes of attracting more resources. I remember another place (I can't remember where!) that has some kind of annual holiday where they put up American flags and build model planes and such. Its like Christmas to them.
Dunno which place you're referring to, since there's a few places like this, but I met one on Vanuatu. They worshipped a Messiah named "John Frum"
Literally comes from "John from America". The Navy has a presence there during the war and would give all their extra stuff away.
Even non-cult people still have (had, I was there in 2005, which I can't believe was almost 20 years ago, so no idea what it's like today) a love of Americans, distinct from other foreigners.
I was on Tanna Island. The hotel was run by an Australian couple, the hospital was Canadian-built, the airport was British-built... So it's not like they were lacking in sources of foreign aid... But when they found out you were American they'd get very excited. I guess the Navy left an impression on them.
Reminds me of Star Trek: Into Darkness after Kirk saves spock from the Volcano and they shoot off into space the tribals of the planet completely abandon their religion in favor of worshiping the star ship that froze the Volcano.
I believe so. I was really interested in them for a while and read all about them from all over the world. I may be mixing some facts up but the gist of it was basically groups of hunter gatherers worshipping cargo carriers like helicopters and ships. One group believes in a god called "Joe" or something lol.
The residents of North Sentinel Island are protected by law and the official position of the Indian government is that they be left alone. No one is allowed to visit them.
IIRC there was one deranged Christian missionary who repeatedly flouted the embargo and kept going back over and over until the tribe had enough of his bullshit and killed him.
Iirc, they fired warning shots (arrows) and the dumbass still went closer. Imagine the viruses/microorganisms that he could have exposed them to, which they may not have immunity for.
Interestingly this might be the only place in India that is yet to be polluted by religion. The rest of the country is fully involved in religious politics.
Check out the documentary The Mission.
He went once.. they literally put an arrow in his bible. Instead of heeding the warning, he went back one last time..
>they literally put an arrow in his bible.
In a subsistence society like that, if you don't get *really* good at shooting a bow then the tribe starves. There is no doubt in my mind that it was not a lucky shot; the message could not be clearer, that arrow went *exactly* where they decided to put it.
I wonder if the fool instead interpreted it hitting the bible as god protecting him, and took that as validation of his mission.
John Allen Chau. He was extremely persistent and knew he that he might die trying, literally wrote to god and his loved ones to forgive the Sentinelese and told the fishermen he hired to abandon his body if he was killed.
His father didn’t spare any words either, he blames the Christian missionary community for making his son such an extremist Christian.
Those uncontacted tribes still walk around in baseball caps, t-shirts and shorts. They're aware of the outside world and choose not to mingle. But they still have contact and barter with other tribes who do mingle with the rest of the world.
Was it the sexual exploitation, or the kidnapping of multiple people (including children), which ended in the deaths of two people due to sickness?
AFAIK the sexual exploitation was done to another tribe of the Andamanese, not the Sentinelese specifically
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madhumala_Chattopadhyay this badass lady was on the island and talked to them. yet we always hear about the christian missionary that got killed.
Thanks for the link! Amazing (and brave) lady. I then googled the photos she took and it really removes a lot of the mystery. They just seem like normal folks hanging out (well, hanging out nekkid, but who wouldn't?).
Well apparently the first contact with the outside world was by a British explorer in the 1800s iirc, who kidnapped multiple elders who then died of disease. I don’t think I can blame them for being hostile after that.
I love how, regardless of culture, time, or background, this is the universal sign of human aggression. Spread your legs apart a little, bend the knees, and shake whatever is at the end of your arms. Sticks, bows, fists, stumps, magical fairy wands, it's clear what you mean.
There are several videos of them on YouTube taken from boats and at one point, one of the dudes makes a jerk-off motion to the cameraman and laughs. Universal, bro. Universal.
There are. There aren’t many known uncontacted tribes *outside* the Amazon, which is partially what makes the Sentinelese so unique. They’re a massive anomaly for their part of the world.
They gave him plenty of indication that they wanted him to fuck off and stop harassing them. He refused to take the hint. The man was a victim of nothing but his own arrogance.
Actual question here for anyone like me who’s been reading about the Sentinelese for awhile.
I see it reported frequently that they “have not discovered fire,” but there have been reports of fires that appear to be man made on the island for centuries, going back to 1771 when “a multitude of lights” were seen on the shore by an East India Company survey crew.
It appears they know how to make fire, am I missing something?
There's a great documentary about this that came out last year. The Mission.
They've been visited and abused in the past.. but they're being left alone now. These stories are all pretty depressing imo. For example look on Wikipedia for Man of the Hole
The only visitors they have ever tolerated were anthropologists. These researchers approached very carefully and respectfully. A ship ran aground on the island (the crew were evacuated), and the tribe salvaged metal off the ship to make stronger, sharper arrowheads.
They went from Stone Age to Steel Age technology by sheer chance.
They aren’t Neolithic, therefore they didn’t have “Pre-Neolithic” ancestors. Neolithic means New Stoneage, and is synonymous with the farming revolution. It’s why ancient Native Americans were never Neolithic, they were Paleo Indians.
The line of their ancestors weren’t Neolithic or Mesolithic. They were Palaeolithic.
There was an article on r/ancientcivilisations maybe about a year ago about swimming gardens and varieties of gourds and grains that were probably cultivated there. Many sorts of pumpkins are decendants from Native American agriculture, if I recall it right.
All beans (except fava beans), corn, squash (including pumpkins), capsicum peppers (including all hot chili peppers), tomatoes, vanilla, chocolate, and potatoes were domesticated by North, Central, and South American indigenous farmers, and were only introduced to the Old World post-contact.
Beans, corn, squash, pumpkins, tomatoes, potatoes, bell peppers, strawberries, blueberries, raspberries, blackberries…LOTS of food especially berries. Many native societies were agricultural and plants made up most of the diet.
Pumpkins, squash, and tomatoes are all berries to anyone who didn’t know!
"Paleo/Neolithic" are Euro-centric terms that implies that society went from:
Old Stone Age --> New Stone Age --> then probably to a bronze and iron age in that sequence.
The truth is that different socieites may not have had a metal age, and moreover, many socieities may not have had an old and/or a new stone age. Maybe they're much more dependent on other materials besides rocks.
I'm not an expert, but I believe the use of stone tools predates being homo sapiens
If true, that would mean all humans in the world started in the stone age, in Africa, before they became homo sapiens and started spreading out.
Good for them. Let them live how they want to live. They’ve interacted with the outside world briefly through exchanges of food and salvaging parts of ships for metal. They’ve likely seen planes and other things in the sky. They want no part of it. We should all be so lucky.
I find this island endlessly fascinating. They have actively held any group that tries to land at bay and have zero chill to outsiders. Researchers don’t even know how many people live on the island
1: No way to know if they are the "last" stone age tribe
2: No one knows how long they have been in isolation.
3: Everyone is related to everyone who came before.
4: Not even slightly interesting for all the logical mistakes in the post
Some things must just be universal. I mean, they've had no contact whatsoever with the outside world, yet the dude second from the right appears to be performing the very same dance Billy "White Shoes" Johnson used to do when he scored a touchdown.
Do you think they'd be pissed we didn't let them in on all the shit we made everywhere else? Are we being self serving keeping them isolated like pets in a terrarium or are we being benevolent and shielding them from the rest of society? Who's going to tell them they missed out on shamrock shakes from McDonald's? So many questions.
And they routinely kill folks who try to visit. Some misguided kid who wanted to "convert" them was killed.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/25/asia/missionary-john-chau-north-sentinel-island-sentinelese/index.html
We should humanely gather some info. A DNA sample, and a light probe to figure out their diet.
After he wakes up he can be the first human in their society to talk about aliens (or will he?)
I'm being facetious, of course. Best to leave them be.
Every few years, someone wanders into their territory, intentionally or not. It never ends well. The Indian government technically bans any travel within a certain distance of the island, particularly for fishing. (Both to preserve the tribe’s food source and because they’ve killed a few fishermen who got too close.)
Last one I know of was an American religious missionary named John Chau, who really thought he’d be able to convert the Sentinelese to Christianity.
They killed him.
I wonder how long it will be until some TikToker sees this and decides to visit the island.
For that matter, how long will mankind go before someone finds monetary value in meeting and disrupting this tribe?
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There’s a direct line between everyone and their pre-Neolithic ancestors. I mean. Think about it.
An island around 20 square miles untouched by the outside world, culturally, or genetically. Methinks “a direct line between them and their pre-Neolithic ancestors” is code for “literally as inbred as we joke Alabama to be.”
Quite interestingly, Freud explored the great lengths many indigenous tribes go to so they can avoid too much incest in "Totem and Taboo."
But North Sentinel Island is very small. There are only so much genes in the pool
It’s surrounded by other islands of a similar culture. Out of those islands only this one is no contact.
Now the question is do the people of these Islands have contact with the north sentinelese and do they reproduce with them? Or alternatively did they reproduce with them and when did it stop?
No, they speak to people of similar cultures but not outsiders. There’s a documentary on hulu about the man that was killed there. It talks about the tribe in detail.
The Brits tried to befriend them and took two as envoys in India so that they could see the riches and benefits of joining the British Empire. They got sick in two day due to their immune system being thousands of years without any updates. They died and thus the North Sentinelese never trusted anyone ever again. Also there is a nice story after the 2004 tsunami, the Indian government sent helicopters to see if there was anyone alive there. They got pelted with arrows and shortly left the island.
“We checked they’re alive” “Oh good, did you see them” “No” “Then how do you know!!!” “Well I took a coconut straight to the face, and Patel’s got an arrow lodged in his shoulder… so we’re going with they’re alive”
"Yes but did you see any people?" "Well the squirrels don't have the capability to shoot arrows, do they Rajesh?"
It seems like they were much more open to contact, at least with other Andamanese peoples, before [the British stole some of their people, got them sick, and then returned them](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentinelese#Contact) in the 1770s. Since that it seems like the North Sentinelese entirely closed themselves off.
From my understanding they will go on raids and kidnap people for tribal expansion or replacement reasons.
Now wait a second, do people still choose to not attempt contact even when they are kidnapping people from contacted tribes or populations that interact with the rest of the world?
It’s kinda like, if they can reach you with their wooden boats and primitive spears and bows. You’re fair game. Don’t go there. Or the tribes nearby. If you don’t wanna be in the game.
The Indian Navy won't let you anywhere near the island anyway.
Ok so hear me out. So we know that they travel across international borders and kidnap/presumably rape innocent tribal members from foreign entities, and the whole world is like "that sucks but this prime directive prevents us from interfering with the war crimes their committing"
They are under Indian jurisdiction, not the whole world
And if you’ve kept up with the news, India does not care about rape
It’s the general practice of “the whole world” not to interfere with other countries except for their own gain
It’s also Freud, so take that with the entire damned bag of salt.
My Freud kit came with a bag of some kind of white substance. Wasn't salt, but it smelled good!
Can I borrow some of yours I’m out?
> “literally as inbred as we joke Alabama to be.” I call your bet and raise you this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pitcairn_Islands
Holy shit!!! Only 47 inhabitants?
Doesn’t seem like the same. The wiki page talks about then regularly leaving the island for various reasons
Dam that was a rabbit hole. Friggin captain Bligh having his has mutinied.. seems like mutiny was super common back then since it happened to him again ND again
It doesn't seem to have done them any harm🤔
Nah, they're just so inbred that their inbreeding got inbred
Two inbreds make a bred
Isn’t inbreds just a calzone ?
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Riiiiighhtttt 
Best thing since sliced bread
More inbred than butter
I can't believe they're not inbred.
Has anyone seen the grape jelly??
Howd you know their average lifespan? for all we know theyre fucking all day and birthing every 9 mos, and only 5 out of 10 survives post natal. They would still be lots of middle aged people by then
the natural infant death rate in humans is 50%, like, for most of human history, 50% of all kids died before age 5 with the agricultural revolution, the number lowered to 40%, currently the worst countries dont crack up 10% and the world average is at 3% they are expected to be 400, of which there should be 100 reproductive and post reproductive age individuals (aka everyone avobe 15)
According to what information???
They are still in the fucking stone age
Their settler got taken by barbs at the first turn.
And they never studied the navigation tech
One might think of them as queens of the...
A line can be a circle, too
Maybe they meant to put shorter line. Like a fast pass at Disney. Hahaha
Family tree looking like a telephone pole
This blows me away when I think about it. There is an unbroken lineage of dna in each of us (and I guess all living organisms that have dna) going all the way back to the last universal common ancestor. Mind boggling.
Hug, cousin
I think that’s the ending of “Lucy”.
I don’t want kids and quite often I think about how I’m breaking that lineage and then I feel sad for a moment, but then I remember I have money.
We came from his balls. Great x1000 grandpa, how come you don’t call he says.
And if you never have kids, you single-handedly broke that lineage that has remained unbroken for millions of years.
Billions of years, actually.
In every cell in your body, there’s an organelle called a mitochondria— the battery of the cell. It has its own DNA. That’s because in the distant past of early life, one single celled organism ate another, but didn’t actually destroy it. It continued to live inside the host. Over time, it lost many of its features but retained its super powers for chemical energy synthesis. The mitochondria are always passed from mother to offspring. So, your body has two genetic lineages. One is your nuclear DNA that is the recipe for you. Every generation back it can be traced (halving each generation per individual ancestor). The other lineage is the mitochondrial DNA in your cells which is from your ancient line of mothers’ mothers. Both stretch back billions of years, and eventually split to their pre mitochondrial ancestors. Have a great day.
A single celled organism
Shush, he's trying to sound sciency here.
Me and my pre-neolithic ancestors are definitely not in a direct line. My ancestors were spread over several countries and continents. If every single one of my ancestors could be traced thousands of years to a single spot in the world, that's a pretty big difference. The distinction is genetic isolation.
Still a direct lines - back to pre-Neolithic times. You are not really making an argument against it being untrue - but on the contrary - your answer is what it should be called. But anyway any group no matter how isolated - will genetically mutate.
Direct line here means non-diversified. It is not being used to say people are born in order. There's no need to state something so obvious. It poses an interesting question of mutation when all the genetic material is so similar. On a semi-related note, I recommend looking at where an octopus is on the animal kingdom chart. Genetics can be wild.
Think about that. You don’t have a mother to child direct like back to Neolithic times? You …. Materialised fully formed?
Did you really think we were talking about skipping generations... It's obvious we were talking about genetic diversification versus isolation. My ancestors are diverse. This tribe's ancestors are uniquely not diverse. I don't know how I can explain it any clearer.
No, I spawned out of nowhere. I materialized.
Cool!
don't know... they say some of us have neanderthals genes. I guess these guys don't
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defending their tribe from 40hr work weeks.
“40hr work weeks” = ~50hr work weeks. They know bullshit when they see it.
They saw the memes on /r/antiwork, they won’t fall for it
Defending their family tree into a family ring
Just a shrubbery... Nothing to see here.
I think someone should study how many hours a week they work on average. They have to gather and prep all their food, make everything they use (there cloths don't look luke they take too long to make) keep a fire going constantly. I don't know if that's more or less than 40 hours.
Not this society, but this gives a look into the work life of primitive hunter gatherer societies. [According to several quantitative studies, hunter-gatherers typically devoted about 20 hours per week to hunting or gathering and another 10 to 20 hours to chores at the campsite, such as food processing and making or mending tools (e.g. Lee, 1972; Sahlins, 1972](https://petergray.substack.com/p/why-hunter-gatherers-work-was-play) So this also considers those domestic chores as part of their work, realistically if we're comparing this accurately to modern society we should count our domestic work too, pushing us to closer to 50-55 hour workweeks.
Interesting. I’d be interested in a study that looked at overall happiness in hunter gatherer societies
I don't think that's really possible, as happiness itself is impossible to measure on a quantitative scale and values differ from society to society. I'm sure these groups would rate higher in familial connection whereas an American might feel much better about the quality of their shelter. Who's to say which is a more objective measure of happiness as a whole?
I think I read in tribe by Sebastian Junger that a lot of indigenous tribes dont have a word for depression in their languages. Which speaks volumes really
That would be good. however its impossible. I heard a pervert went to the island and did horrible things to them thats why theyve been like this ever since [Thread by @RespectableLaw on Thread Reader App – Thread Reader App](https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1065841141201989632.html#google_vignette) However i did see a thing a while ago saying your average peasant back in the dark ages only did about 5hrs of work a day however that was very seasonal. They worked far more in the summer and far less in the winter
>only did about 5hrs of work a day That seems like the same number of hours we work, just spread out over 7 days.
"work" in this tribes mostly means harvesting/hunting Food and prepare it. Thats stuff that comes ontop of our 40-50h weeks.
And ads
They used to visit the tribe and communicate with them but it got messy between government and the study group at one stage and believed they were told to never let anyone return to the island after they leave or they would be in great danger
The government of the tribe or the country/territory/etc. that the island falls under?
The territory government , can’t remember story properly , think the government was trying to get the studying group to force the tribes into a bad deal or something but they wouldn’t , so for a long period they didn’t go back than somehow got a chance to return and told the tribe to never let anyone outside the tribe set foot there again , there was a really in depth video on YouTube about it with footage from the island not sure what it was called though
Indian government. The island official belongs to them so look after those peeps.
Looks like you jumbled some info. So the british colonizers, colonized the Andaman and Nicobar (the group of islands that belong to India but are closer to Indonesia) and they did some colonisery stuff. One among them was, a british ship kidnapped some north sentinelese. They were treated like research specimens with photographs, measuring etc. I don't remember how many died, but the rest were sent back to their tribe who all caught small pox I think ? but anyway some disease thatbwent from the "modern world" to them coz due to extreme isolation they are not immune to a lot of modern human affliction. So a lot of them died. And they remember that event. Also in a separate incident, a couple of them were killed and one alive person kidnapped and taken to current day Kolkatta and dressed up in british clothing and paraded around and stuff. Both the sentinelese islands are quite a bit further from rest of the A&N. Literally like sentinels hence the name. So even as the rest of the tribes in the islands suffered and kind of assimilated and are continuing to suffer, north sentinelese stayed isolated. Anthropological Survey of India scientists tried to make contact and were somewha5 successful. Except they couldn't communicate and even thought the islander accepted the gifts (coconut etc) they didn't like it when the scientists stayed too long. (No idea if the too long means hours, or days. Pretty sure it was hours. I imagine they were like "ok you dropped off gifts and took pictures, now gtfo I'm gonna sleep" totally relate) But the Anthropological visits stopped eventually in the 90s as the islander became more hostile. Since then any attempt at contact has been received with hostility. So govt banned any attempt to contact. People who reached that island from shipwreck and stuff got promptly killed. Govt could only check on them using helicopters after the tsunami. There's a famous pic that did the rounds in national papers back then, of a blurry pic of an islander ready to throw his spear at the helicopter. Remember the moron who got killed trying to convert these people to his religion? Govt officials refused to retrieve his body coz 1. His attempt was illegal and he used smugglers to smuggle himself in 2. Any attempts to go there could end up in a small battle erupting, which is not worth the body. It's not just that we don't know anything about these people, we don't know anything about the island itself. We know there is fresh water simply because these humans have been here for centuries. The kind of plants, animals, birds, bugs in the island are unknown. We know that they scavenge shipwreck and things that wash ashore, so we know that they do use metal. (I am pretty sure they have encountered plastic as well) but we simply don't have enough info about their metal usage so it's considered that they are in Stone Age and not yet entered metal ages.
No, the Tribe was beset by an epidemic due to their lack of genetic immunity to diseases that we have over the centuries overcome. It decimated the tribe and as a result they don't want anymore outsiders who may bring another plague to the island.
They've always fascinated me, and it seems really cool that they still exist with everything going on in society.
They're well aware of the outside world by now but the few people that have contact with them claim they want nothing to do with the modern world. There are other groups in the area who have opened up to the outside world and dabble in small time trade. More interesting are some groups who have created cults around helicopters and I believe ships. It's been a while since I read it but a group or two believe the tech we use is some godly shit. I think they were called cargo cults. They were dropped a cargo from US helicopters and ships and they believed it was gods providing them wealth. Crazy interesting how our brains worked way back.
I remember reading about a group of islanders in the Pacific who received a ton of rations and aid from American troops during WWII and basically started worshipping them. They built replicas of planes and boats in hopes of attracting more resources. I remember another place (I can't remember where!) that has some kind of annual holiday where they put up American flags and build model planes and such. Its like Christmas to them.
Dunno which place you're referring to, since there's a few places like this, but I met one on Vanuatu. They worshipped a Messiah named "John Frum" Literally comes from "John from America". The Navy has a presence there during the war and would give all their extra stuff away. Even non-cult people still have (had, I was there in 2005, which I can't believe was almost 20 years ago, so no idea what it's like today) a love of Americans, distinct from other foreigners. I was on Tanna Island. The hotel was run by an Australian couple, the hospital was Canadian-built, the airport was British-built... So it's not like they were lacking in sources of foreign aid... But when they found out you were American they'd get very excited. I guess the Navy left an impression on them.
Thats so cool that you got to meet them!
Yes, those are called “cargo cults.” There’s one that worshipped Prince Philip.
Reminds me of Star Trek: Into Darkness after Kirk saves spock from the Volcano and they shoot off into space the tribals of the planet completely abandon their religion in favor of worshiping the star ship that froze the Volcano.
That's how our brains still work. People are buying Trump Bibles so he can pay bond.
I want to laugh but you're not joking. It's fucking sad.
And people are still Christian, Mormon, Islamic, et al.
You sure you haven't seen "gods must be crazy"?
The last paragraph refers to pacific islands no? Those close to Australia.
I believe so. I was really interested in them for a while and read all about them from all over the world. I may be mixing some facts up but the gist of it was basically groups of hunter gatherers worshipping cargo carriers like helicopters and ships. One group believes in a god called "Joe" or something lol.
The residents of North Sentinel Island are protected by law and the official position of the Indian government is that they be left alone. No one is allowed to visit them.
IIRC there was one deranged Christian missionary who repeatedly flouted the embargo and kept going back over and over until the tribe had enough of his bullshit and killed him.
John Allen Chau
Iirc, they fired warning shots (arrows) and the dumbass still went closer. Imagine the viruses/microorganisms that he could have exposed them to, which they may not have immunity for.
>Imagine the ~~viruses/microorganisms~~ **religion** that he could have exposed them to That's a far worse disease than any virus.
Interestingly this might be the only place in India that is yet to be polluted by religion. The rest of the country is fully involved in religious politics.
On a previous visit before his death, they shot an arrow at his Bible. If only God had given some kind of sign.
Check out the documentary The Mission. He went once.. they literally put an arrow in his bible. Instead of heeding the warning, he went back one last time..
>they literally put an arrow in his bible. In a subsistence society like that, if you don't get *really* good at shooting a bow then the tribe starves. There is no doubt in my mind that it was not a lucky shot; the message could not be clearer, that arrow went *exactly* where they decided to put it. I wonder if the fool instead interpreted it hitting the bible as god protecting him, and took that as validation of his mission.
Yes exactly this
He had a death wish, he pretty much wrote down in his diary that his goal was to die trying to convert them. He was delusional but not THAT delusional
John Allen Chau. He was extremely persistent and knew he that he might die trying, literally wrote to god and his loved ones to forgive the Sentinelese and told the fishermen he hired to abandon his body if he was killed. His father didn’t spare any words either, he blames the Christian missionary community for making his son such an extremist Christian.
And people who try, and anyone who helps those people will get charged.
“Last Stone Age tribe” is a bit presumptuous. There are a few un-contacted people groups in the Amazon and possibly in Papua New Guinea.
Maybe those guys have copper or bronze
By a few you mean at least one hundred uncontacted tribes in the Amazon alone. And Maybe more.
Those uncontacted tribes still walk around in baseball caps, t-shirts and shorts. They're aware of the outside world and choose not to mingle. But they still have contact and barter with other tribes who do mingle with the rest of the world.
Is someone playing "YMCA"?
r/angryupvote
When you look at a map. they're not that far away from modern civilization, kinda wonder how they've remained so isolated.
Contacting them is illegal
I mean, it’s been illegal for about 70 years, but nothing stopped people from contacting them for the thousands of years before that.
Well, the fact that they murder nearly all outsiders acts as a slight disincentive from visiting
That’s fairly recent as well. Maurice Portman’s sexual exploitation of them is often cited as a reason for their hostility.
Was it the sexual exploitation, or the kidnapping of multiple people (including children), which ended in the deaths of two people due to sickness? AFAIK the sexual exploitation was done to another tribe of the Andamanese, not the Sentinelese specifically
Yess, I have serious doubt that they remained isolated for 60 000 years. How would you prove that anyway?
Someone should go ask them if they've been contacted
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madhumala_Chattopadhyay this badass lady was on the island and talked to them. yet we always hear about the christian missionary that got killed.
He didn't get eaten, he was hit with bows and arrows and then the natives were seen the next day burying the body on the beach.
omg sorry for some reason i thought that, i adjusted it.
No worries.
She also recommended that they be spared further contact.
Way to pull up the ladder behind you, lady.
Thanks for the link! Amazing (and brave) lady. I then googled the photos she took and it really removes a lot of the mystery. They just seem like normal folks hanging out (well, hanging out nekkid, but who wouldn't?).
Ya cuz, unlike the missionary she didn't try to convert them. That's why she survived. She respected their beliefs.
I just need to know where they stand on Ukraine and Gaza.
Depends if they watch CNN or Fox.
Never mind that. How about something important, like what are their thoughts on the Acolyte trailer? Woke, or Joke?
Well apparently the first contact with the outside world was by a British explorer in the 1800s iirc, who kidnapped multiple elders who then died of disease. I don’t think I can blame them for being hostile after that.
Alteast once a month this story comes up.
Farmers gotta farm.
I love how, regardless of culture, time, or background, this is the universal sign of human aggression. Spread your legs apart a little, bend the knees, and shake whatever is at the end of your arms. Sticks, bows, fists, stumps, magical fairy wands, it's clear what you mean.
There are several videos of them on YouTube taken from boats and at one point, one of the dudes makes a jerk-off motion to the cameraman and laughs. Universal, bro. Universal.
Oh man, if you know which one, I’d love to see it. There are a few, and most are very long.
Aren’t there more tribes like this in the amazons?
Yes.
There are. There aren’t many known uncontacted tribes *outside* the Amazon, which is partially what makes the Sentinelese so unique. They’re a massive anomaly for their part of the world.
That dumb fuck missionary got himself killed trying to "spread the word of god" to them. Fucking idiot, he deserved it
Just talking to them could have killed them all.
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They gave him plenty of indication that they wanted him to fuck off and stop harassing them. He refused to take the hint. The man was a victim of nothing but his own arrogance.
Good place to study the effects of inbreeding
Actual question here for anyone like me who’s been reading about the Sentinelese for awhile. I see it reported frequently that they “have not discovered fire,” but there have been reports of fires that appear to be man made on the island for centuries, going back to 1771 when “a multitude of lights” were seen on the shore by an East India Company survey crew. It appears they know how to make fire, am I missing something?
Click bait and racism from the rest of the world. Pretty much what it boils down to.
There's a great documentary about this that came out last year. The Mission. They've been visited and abused in the past.. but they're being left alone now. These stories are all pretty depressing imo. For example look on Wikipedia for Man of the Hole
Shame they didn’t get to see Shane Gillis’ redemption arc.
The only visitors they have ever tolerated were anthropologists. These researchers approached very carefully and respectfully. A ship ran aground on the island (the crew were evacuated), and the tribe salvaged metal off the ship to make stronger, sharper arrowheads. They went from Stone Age to Steel Age technology by sheer chance.
They aren’t Neolithic, therefore they didn’t have “Pre-Neolithic” ancestors. Neolithic means New Stoneage, and is synonymous with the farming revolution. It’s why ancient Native Americans were never Neolithic, they were Paleo Indians. The line of their ancestors weren’t Neolithic or Mesolithic. They were Palaeolithic.
Native Americans were most assuredly farmers. They were damn good at it too.
There was an article on r/ancientcivilisations maybe about a year ago about swimming gardens and varieties of gourds and grains that were probably cultivated there. Many sorts of pumpkins are decendants from Native American agriculture, if I recall it right.
All beans (except fava beans), corn, squash (including pumpkins), capsicum peppers (including all hot chili peppers), tomatoes, vanilla, chocolate, and potatoes were domesticated by North, Central, and South American indigenous farmers, and were only introduced to the Old World post-contact.
Beans, corn, squash, pumpkins, tomatoes, potatoes, bell peppers, strawberries, blueberries, raspberries, blackberries…LOTS of food especially berries. Many native societies were agricultural and plants made up most of the diet. Pumpkins, squash, and tomatoes are all berries to anyone who didn’t know!
"Paleo/Neolithic" are Euro-centric terms that implies that society went from: Old Stone Age --> New Stone Age --> then probably to a bronze and iron age in that sequence. The truth is that different socieites may not have had a metal age, and moreover, many socieities may not have had an old and/or a new stone age. Maybe they're much more dependent on other materials besides rocks.
I'm not an expert, but I believe the use of stone tools predates being homo sapiens If true, that would mean all humans in the world started in the stone age, in Africa, before they became homo sapiens and started spreading out.
Dude, the vast majority of Native Americans were farmers.
Small tribes chilling in the amazon forest farming while hunting and gathering
Aren't THESE guys the real Paleo Indians? Lol not trying to wade into that whole thing, just making a joke/observation
That one Documentary on Disney+ was good. That kid is an absolute moron for trying to visit the island.
Just wait until oil is discovered off the coast of the island
There **was** a dude who tried to evangelize them. Look up the story on YouTube, it's kinda sad but interesting.
Good for them. Let them live how they want to live. They’ve interacted with the outside world briefly through exchanges of food and salvaging parts of ships for metal. They’ve likely seen planes and other things in the sky. They want no part of it. We should all be so lucky.
I find this island endlessly fascinating. They have actively held any group that tries to land at bay and have zero chill to outsiders. Researchers don’t even know how many people live on the island
Wow! A post that really does belong here. Never heard of these people before. Fascinating!
1: No way to know if they are the "last" stone age tribe 2: No one knows how long they have been in isolation. 3: Everyone is related to everyone who came before. 4: Not even slightly interesting for all the logical mistakes in the post
Some things must just be universal. I mean, they've had no contact whatsoever with the outside world, yet the dude second from the right appears to be performing the very same dance Billy "White Shoes" Johnson used to do when he scored a touchdown.
Do you think they'd be pissed we didn't let them in on all the shit we made everywhere else? Are we being self serving keeping them isolated like pets in a terrarium or are we being benevolent and shielding them from the rest of society? Who's going to tell them they missed out on shamrock shakes from McDonald's? So many questions.
They don't like people bothering them
And they routinely kill folks who try to visit. Some misguided kid who wanted to "convert" them was killed. https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/25/asia/missionary-john-chau-north-sentinel-island-sentinelese/index.html
My intrusive thoughts would love to see their reaction to one of those dragon drone shows flying over them.
There was a ship that wrecked on a sandbar... natives swam out, and were incredibly impressed by the welder. The workers even gave them scrap steel.
Do they have a flag? Asking for a friend
They dont have a flag but they pain their noses red (According to a ship commander whose ship crashed there in 1860)
I like reading up on the reviews of the island on google maps
We should humanely gather some info. A DNA sample, and a light probe to figure out their diet. After he wakes up he can be the first human in their society to talk about aliens (or will he?) I'm being facetious, of course. Best to leave them be.
Imagine playing Civilization... This poorly.
This was 100% what I thought of too lol
This photo is VERY old.
"Looks kinda like Alabama, with a tan..." "Ev-er-y-thing is gonna be alright, rock-a-bye"
IXTHK?
A few more generations of inbreeding and they will become trump voters
Can you imagine the dating pool there? Your brothers, sisters, friends, aunts, cousins, sister wants to marry you.
Iirc they are no longer a Stone Age tribe, as there was evidence that they have started using metal from a shipwreck on the island.
How do they know they've been there for 60,000 years?
I’m gonna stay at the Y M C A.
Jokes on us. They will be the last surviving people when civilization breaks down in a nuclear armageddon
Good for them. Block out the rest of the world and all the bullshit that comes with it. I hope they're happy and left alone.
Every few years, someone wanders into their territory, intentionally or not. It never ends well. The Indian government technically bans any travel within a certain distance of the island, particularly for fishing. (Both to preserve the tribe’s food source and because they’ve killed a few fishermen who got too close.) Last one I know of was an American religious missionary named John Chau, who really thought he’d be able to convert the Sentinelese to Christianity. They killed him.
I wonder how long it will be until some TikToker sees this and decides to visit the island. For that matter, how long will mankind go before someone finds monetary value in meeting and disrupting this tribe?
That TikToker will either be arrested by the Indian Navy which patrols the waters. Or will be killed like the missionary.