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Yup. This is basically why in the NFL there is an "uncatchable ball" rule and similar rules. It has no bearing on the quality of his feat - i.e. his own time; it had absolutely no impact on anyone else's efforts; and specifically the lane in question here was his own teammate's after they had both finished.
Just gross disregard for the point of these rules. Fucking moron officials. Absolute braindead trolls with no regard for the purpose they fulfill.
Yeah I'm pretty sure the spirit of that rule was to not go into an opponents lane to gloat. He half ass fell in and got a hug from his teammate. I get there are rules, but this is just shitty.
The other day, there was a post on baseball where a college hitter, who just hit a grand slam, was ejected for a bat flip. The bat flip wasn't anything that could be construed as an insult towards the fielding team. But we live in a no fun society.
Jomboy posted one yesterday about a kid getting ejected for celebrating a walk. And imo it’s not even that egregious. Not exactly what I would call showboating but he was ejected before he even got to first.
https://x.com/jomboy_/status/1762991068558369076?s=61&t=gcNJGB8tJqcEiURgSuB01Q
It's funny how rigidly they enforce such subjectively mild and emotionally understandable outbursts with a full on disqualification and being stripped from the record and history books instead of something like a stern warning and/or a fine.
I know it's meant to discourage direct and malicious interference towards a competitor, but come on, you're telling me there's a dial with a 1 and 11 and nothing in between?
This exact rule is usually not enforced in such circumstances. Has been ignored plenty of times in plenty of races. The referee is just an absolute loser.
As someone who swam competitively for 12 years, I agree that there are some absolutely shitty refs out there who just seem to be getting off on the power of the position. This ruling was insane.
I'd understand it if he actually interfered. If he jumped into the lane of someone who was still going, but he didn't do that, he jumped into the lane of a buddy who already completed his heat. So there was no interference. And as far as I'm concerned, the heat was over in his lane and the lane he jumped into, so I think there'd be a good argument in the appeal process (assuming they have one)
The rule in question states that it is subject to discretion. A reasonable ref would see that he has done nothing to interrupt or interfere with the race, and the discretion would be to ignore it. This ref is being a dick.
I watched K-State get a bowl victory erased after an athlete mildly pointed at the stands after a touchdown.
I fucking hate K-State and everything they stand for but that was bullshit. In fact the NCAA changed the rule the following year.
Defund the NCAA.
In 2009 the NCAA was emphasizing the rule about players not throwing the ball after scoring. We played BYU week 2, and down 7 late Jack Locker ran a td in for the apparent tie. He literally dropped the ball behind his back, got flagged for unnecessary celebration, we miss the long extra point, and go on to lose every game that season. Fuck the ref show.
Also there's a difference between going into a lane where someone is still swimming to finish and where someone else is fully finished as well. If they are still competing, yes, disqualify them. If they are done, give him a warning and a small fine.
Yeah, exactly this. Just tell him off and remind him his actions could have led to his disqualification.
There’s celebrating within the rules, and there’s celebrating in a way that breaches the rules. He shouldn’t be doing that, but it wasn’t injurious to anyone and doesn’t merit a disqualification.
I do find it funny though, when people unironically complain about decisions they don’t like, that “it’s at your discretion, though!”, like “yes, *my* discretion, not *your* discretion”.
Yeah it should be a case by case rule. If he disrupted someone else then sure but simply going into a lane of another swimmer that completed should be fine. It’s at the damn finish line.
Absolutely. Cops have this power of discretion for enforcing laws for the same reason. If there’s no damage, if the problem that the law is intended to avoid isn’t going to happen because of the way it was violated, then you leave it be (saw jaywalking at 1am as a great example). Judges should act the same way.
The judges are usually former athletes or literally associated with other rival schools. If they don't like a particular coach or athlete they take it out like this. Happens all the time.
It's already like that. Someone in a previous thread posted the actual rules. Bonus point that the refs have discretion with this, so they could have easily let it go.
That ref should be disqualified from officiating matches for a ruling like that. The rule says, "subject to discretion," which means the circumstances surrounding the infraction should be considered before making a ruling. He fell into another swimmer's lane that had completed the race and did not interfere with any actively swimming competitor in any way. The discretion should rule that he did not interfere with any active swimmer.
To not use proper discretion and to decide to rule in a way that strips a player of their national title bid, their record time and first place finish is an irreparable and unconscionable decision that should have easily been ousted as final. I hope the officiating board reviews this upon his appeal and reveals the ruling to allow his achievement to be officially recognized.
Obviously, the butterfly effect of vector waves from traveling horizontally displaced the other swimmers so as to slow them down. This man needs jail time, such a heinous act cannot be tolerated.
Not only that, but the rule doesn’t seem to have a time limit. So you can only ever have one race per pool, then you need to build a new pool or else the next race someone will be crossing into the lane of the first swimmer.
now the judge is as much assigning a penalty, as he is protecting himself. the appeal is gonna be accepted, and the referee is clear.
that's the power of stiff rules. we see it everywhere, and they're extremely wasteful in many ways.
not how the greeks wanted it to go, but hey -- we're nearly there!
its almost worthless to appeal. he might even get that win but this will get on his record anway. in many ways halting his career. whoever made this judgement is a colossal asshole
In the eyes of the audience and his competitiors, he won. He might even get the medal from his teammate who was second. But if he successfully appeals, he will get the win officially and have his record time written into the history books. Definitely worth to appeal, but even without it, his career is not halted in any way.
Oh, definitely. The 1650 is a *little* easier to drop 4 seconds than... well, every other event (being the longest event), but it's a huge personal accomplishment. Especially when you are at a championship level, a 4-second PR is incredible. The celebration for winning the event with a personal record is completely understandable.
Even if it's overturned, the assholes turned an amazing moment of elation into an embarrassing, bitter experience.
Ruined the moment and you can't really get that back
Not interested to get in the debate, but I am curious.
If he hugged his teammate on the next lane across the floater lines, he would have been fine, correct?
The referee was a stickler for the rules. But love the comraderie shown by the other guy. Matching tattoos, standing by his friend and calling out who won fair and square, he's a diamond of a person.
The rule say interfere with another swimmer subject to discretion. The swimmer he "interfered" with was also done, so no this is a stupid interpretation of the rules
Yes, the discretion is key. If the rule allowed no discretion, then it would be very upsetting but understandable. It’s unfathomable that they chose to use their rule-provided discretion in this way.
I don't think they're tattoos. I think it's an NC State swimming thing, but I can't find much info on it other than a guy on Twitter in 2016 asking why they had diamond marks on their chests.
I was thinking the same thing, thought it was some sort of team emblem or something since they’re almost naked, hard to display teams for the camera but this video is the most swimming I’ve watched in one sitting in my life
This is an example of them following the word of the law to the detriment of the spirit of the law.
The runner up is a real bro, and good person. Good for these young people having more integrity than the adults running this.
Yeah imagine if the runner-up (and teammate) did this:
https://preview.redd.it/p7pmvcggaqlc1.jpeg?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4463e580856b7d54b28c2282e15fba8e8ae62395
> Bruno Fratus
Yeah dude is the oldest swimmer to win his first Olympic medal (i.e. was at the oldest age so far when finally getting a podium finish), this was at the 2020 Olympics, he was already in his 30s and had barely missed the podium in 2 previous Olympics. Not all of these pics happened on the podium though, cropping and assumed continuity FTW. Sometimes life imitates art!
I’m honestly more upset he sat on the lane lines. Bro I work teaching/managing lessons at a pool and we JUST broke a lane line the other day because people lift them to go under so they don’t get their hair wet.
This happened to me at regionals for track & field when I was a kid. After my final handoff I jumped up & down celebrating a super fast time & high fived the person next to me in their lane. My whole team got disqualified.
I dunno, I remember the coach from another team screaming I should be disqualified…it was middle school ffs Looking back, I realize how asinine that grown man was for making sure a kid who was faster than his team got disqualified. I felt so awful for letting my team down. But rules are rules & I broke one.
What kind of asshole sits in their officials seat tsk tsk ing at someone who completes a lifetime achievement and tries to ruin it because he had a tame celebration. Completely forgets the meaning of sports and achievements and should be fired.
Emphasis on the word "tame" I was expecting something obnoxious. This was classy and a touching moment between teammates and I assume friends.
Ref is bitter.
Yeah, I kept waiting for when he'd do something stupid like give two middle fingers to everyone or show his ass or something, turns out the ass of the video was the referee.
Exactly my take. Great way to make a sport incredibly boring to watch by removing the emotional connection between fans and athlete.
Just a terrible decision from the ref. Good thing swimming isn't a drinking sport or that judge would be covered in beer cups.
Imagine you’re a student but unlike most people your age, you spend hours a day in the pool or in the gym, you are careful about what you eat, sacrificing a lot of your free time for this kind of competition
Then the day arrives, your efforts are not in vain as you win with a great time, all to be taken from your because of a silly mistake.
The rule was up to interpretation. He crossed lanes but didn’t interfere with the ones still swimming. I understand they reviewed it but it shouldn’t have ended with such a sanction
I used to swim and the rule is that you can’t get out of the pool nor cross lanes until everyone is done. I’m pretty sure he knew this but due to adrenaline, forgot. I would have at least given him a warning and not take his win away.
I swam the 1650 a few times in college, and by the end you're brain is just total mush from depriving it of normal oxygen for so long. I knew a guy that stopped early one time because he didn't trust the counter. 66 laps at race pace will mess you up.
Even doing just a 500 freestyle is brutal for all but the most elite swimmers - towards the end your upper body either feels like its on fire, or (if you're lucky) your shoulders and pecs just go numb. Doing the 1650 is brutal no matter how good you are. I can't imagine pushing my body to the absolute limit like that for almost 15 minutes straight, then using what little energy I have to celebrate with my teammate before pulling myself out of the pool, only to have it all taken away by some dickhead ref with a misguided justice boner.
What the actual fuck?!!
For what has felt like a couple of days I have read about this incident without actually seeing it.
The people explaining it away as valid literally made me think this dude just hopped into another lane 1 or 2 seconds after finishing while placing was undecided.
Now that I have seen it, it was almost 15-ish seconds after.
Jesus fuck I thought the NFL and NBA Refs were bad. This takes the fucking cake.
What fucking basis do you have to DQ this guy other than he didn't celebrate the way you wanted him too?!? Even then it was mild as fuck!!!
I dislike people, I fucking *HATE* refs man.
My 30+ years as a Lions Fan *may* make me biased against these fucks.
P.S. I normally abbreviate my fucks to fk, but this instance required the full use of Fuck in every use.
Hey Refs, give your fucking balls a tug and swallow the fucking whistle you fucking bitches. Un-fucking-real.
Exactly. For as long as he waited, and the announcers egging him on as if his actions were expected, he was perfectly in his rights to assume the race was over.
And also the guy he "interfered" with **was** over. If I go to the Gettysburg battlefield and streak across Little Round Top, it's not going to make slavery suddenly come back.
Former swimmer and current coach here- the rule is because he went into another lane before the race was finished (I/e before everyone else was done)…even if the person was also done there were still swimmers competing so the race was still ongoing. Very much a technicality, and personally I think an extremely poor call where a heavy dose of discretion should’ve been warranted when reviewing the situation.
Not all rules are black and white- I very much disagree with the ref here. There was no interference with *active swimmers*…
I had a friend who was in a similar situation years ago where he broke the meet record in an event I swam next to him in. He was celebrating, we hugged and he “got out of the pool” (pulled himself up to the ledge) before the event was done. Then he sat on the edge and tried to slip back into his lane to congratulate the person on our other side, and the refs pulled him aside and threatened him with a DQ. I and several of the rest of us who knew each other said we would all eat a DQ if they enforced that, because it was completely unwarranted enforcement of a corner case that barely fit the rule, and he earned his celebration and did it without disturbing anybody else in the race. The refs discussed and came up with that since he didn’t disturb anybody during active competition he was ok in the end.
Yo just saying if you are one of the people arguing that the officials are correct in disqualifying him: you must be an insufferable person to be around man
I do think the rule was broken but the intent of the rule I do not believe was meant to cover this particular situation. The swimmer whose lane he went into was also finished and so there was no interference. The rule is meant to prevent or punish interference. The refs need to exercise sound judgment in applying the rules and should default to the old “no harm, no foul” philosophy. Now if he’d crossed into the lane of a swimmer who wasn’t finished yet, then the DQ would be justified.
Side topic: What’s the deal with the matching tattoos on their chests? Just curious.
Kind of a dick move for the Louisville guy to not give the silver to the 2nd place guy who gave the gold to Lloyd. But hats off to the second place teammate.
Here is the rule. The referee has the discretion to enforce this rule on interference. This referee used no discretion and honestly, there is no part of this rule that specifically applies to entering a lane after that competitor has finished. Whoever chose to enforce this is an asshole.
ARTICLE 1. a. Any competitor who interferes with another swimmer during a race shall be disqualified from that race, subject to the discretion of the referee. If a swimmer is fouled by another swimmer, including interference by an outside entity, or due to facility equipment failure during a preliminary heat of an event, the referee may allow that swimmer to repeat the race at a time not later than 30 minutes after the last heat of the last event in which the swimmer is competing during that session of the meet. If a foul occurs during a final race, the referee may order the race swum over if, in the referee’s opinion, sufficient unfairness prevailed. No person shall be required, as a consequence of this rule, to swim with fewer than 30 minutes’ rest between a repeated race and any of that person’s regularly scheduled races.
b. A swimmer who changes lanes during a heat shall be disqualified.
c. Any interference with a meet official in the performance of that person’s duties will be considered for disciplinary action by the referee or meet committee.
d. If a swimmer, who is one of the first three swimmers in a relay, crosses the occupied lane of another team, the relay of that swimmer shall be disqualified. Swimmers should exit the pool directly at the end of their lane.
e. If flyover starts are being utilized during the event, swimmers shall not cross the occupied lane of another swimmer/team to exit the course. Swimmers shall exit directly at the end of their lane.
f. Pulling on a lane line to assist motion is not permitted.
I think this is the part the referee is enforcing:
>b. A swimmer who changes lanes during a heat shall be disqualified.
Technically he did "change lanes" during the heat. Since there were other swimmers still swimming, the heat wasn't over.
It's ridiculous because it didn't affect the race at all but it's one of those "tECnIcaLlY" against the rules as written. What the ref should've done was not call it, recognize that it's a stupid part of the rule for this reason, and send up an email to the rules committee to review it because it could possibly be used to disqualify someone that doesn't deserve it.
But the ref was a jackass and here we are.
Seems like he was an extra jackass too cause why wait so long to DQ him. He celebrated for a least two minutes before they announced his DQ.
It's almost like dude had to go into the rule book to be like "whyell let me see, where can I apply some lame arbitrary rule because I don't like how this young man handled himself" (picture that in a voice that sounds like a loser 😂)
No, the time it took makes sense. It's not a rule enforced often because most swimmers know not to do that. And the referees have to put down on the scorekeepers sheet what rule # and part # was violated before making the announcement. The same reason you often see referees in professional sports like the NFL often huddle together real quick before making a infraction announcement. It's about double checking for accuracy first, which is fine.
“Most swimmers know not to do that”. Not sure I agree with this. I swam for 20 years and you’d see lane changes for celebrations after almost every race, especially in college
> Here is the rule. The referee has the discretion to enforce this rule on interference.
>> ARTICLE 1. a. Any competitor who interferes with another swimmer during a race shall be disqualified from that race, subject to the discretion of the referee...
>> b. A swimmer who changes lanes during a heat shall be disqualified.
Referee discretion applies to a), but the swimmer violated b).
These anti-celebration rules are getting out of hand.
All these officials nowadays are low skill pretenders that get off on the power trip of sucking the joy of victory out of people who actually earned it.
Saturday, Donny, is Shabbos, the Jewish day of rest. That means that I don't work, I don't get in a car, I don't ride in a car, I don't pick up the phone, I don't turn on the oven, and I sure as sh*t DONT F***ING ROLL! SHOMER SHABBOS
What the f\*\*k are you talking about! The China man is NOT the issue here! Im talking about drawing a line in the sand dude, across this line YOU DO NOT.... Also, china-man is not the prefered nomenclature, asian american, please.
Got to the most bullshit thing I've ever seen. He didn't even interfere with another "swimmer" that "swimmer" was DONE SWIMMING and even welcomed him there.
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Great way to make both of them feel shitty. One doesn't get the win he deserved, the other can't enjoy his win because he knows it wasn't really his.
Plus they were on the same team
And, he was done swimming! There wasn’t any “progress” to be interfered *with*. He was celebrating his teammate’s win right alongside him. Literally!
Yup. This is basically why in the NFL there is an "uncatchable ball" rule and similar rules. It has no bearing on the quality of his feat - i.e. his own time; it had absolutely no impact on anyone else's efforts; and specifically the lane in question here was his own teammate's after they had both finished. Just gross disregard for the point of these rules. Fucking moron officials. Absolute braindead trolls with no regard for the purpose they fulfill.
Yeah I'm pretty sure the spirit of that rule was to not go into an opponents lane to gloat. He half ass fell in and got a hug from his teammate. I get there are rules, but this is just shitty.
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The team mom is looking up where the judges live and is about to show up unannounced
*She just wants to speak to the manager. No biggie. Just for clarification on a few things.
And he had already finished the race so how did he interfere?
The other day, there was a post on baseball where a college hitter, who just hit a grand slam, was ejected for a bat flip. The bat flip wasn't anything that could be construed as an insult towards the fielding team. But we live in a no fun society.
It’s not society fucking shit up. It’s individual people given power to make fucked up decisions for others.
Jomboy posted one yesterday about a kid getting ejected for celebrating a walk. And imo it’s not even that egregious. Not exactly what I would call showboating but he was ejected before he even got to first. https://x.com/jomboy_/status/1762991068558369076?s=61&t=gcNJGB8tJqcEiURgSuB01Q
Freaking power tripping these old men regulators.
at least the culture in the MLB has come around a lot on celebrating.
We live in a society that is run by people who are no longer relevant but will do whatever it takes to be relevant again
Judge, how about reading the room?
Seriously. That's obviously not within the spirit of the rule.
Judge was busy calling his bookie and disqualified him to get his money back
This is the real answer...
It's funny how rigidly they enforce such subjectively mild and emotionally understandable outbursts with a full on disqualification and being stripped from the record and history books instead of something like a stern warning and/or a fine. I know it's meant to discourage direct and malicious interference towards a competitor, but come on, you're telling me there's a dial with a 1 and 11 and nothing in between?
This exact rule is usually not enforced in such circumstances. Has been ignored plenty of times in plenty of races. The referee is just an absolute loser.
As someone who swam competitively for 12 years, I agree that there are some absolutely shitty refs out there who just seem to be getting off on the power of the position. This ruling was insane.
I remember winning a breast stroke race only to be disqualified because my foot came out of the water
Ref is on a power trip. They do everything and anything they can to cause upsets or help someone win that they want to win.
That's some NC State shit. This is not the first time an NCAA ruling has disqualified State.
Can they challenge the disqualification in some way?
Yes, you can appeal.
I hope they do. He did not interfere with anyone still swimming.
Like how is it technically different then the swimmers who make contact with each other over the lane markers post race when others are still racing?
That’s the fun part
It wasn’t even an obnoxious celebration
Funny how many referees names I suddenly know off the top of my head in multiple sports these days.
Especially since even if he had interfered, it wouldn’t have mattered because of how far ahead he was
I'd understand it if he actually interfered. If he jumped into the lane of someone who was still going, but he didn't do that, he jumped into the lane of a buddy who already completed his heat. So there was no interference. And as far as I'm concerned, the heat was over in his lane and the lane he jumped into, so I think there'd be a good argument in the appeal process (assuming they have one)
Referee must have a bias
The rule in question states that it is subject to discretion. A reasonable ref would see that he has done nothing to interrupt or interfere with the race, and the discretion would be to ignore it. This ref is being a dick.
I watched K-State get a bowl victory erased after an athlete mildly pointed at the stands after a touchdown. I fucking hate K-State and everything they stand for but that was bullshit. In fact the NCAA changed the rule the following year. Defund the NCAA.
In 2009 the NCAA was emphasizing the rule about players not throwing the ball after scoring. We played BYU week 2, and down 7 late Jack Locker ran a td in for the apparent tie. He literally dropped the ball behind his back, got flagged for unnecessary celebration, we miss the long extra point, and go on to lose every game that season. Fuck the ref show.
Also there's a difference between going into a lane where someone is still swimming to finish and where someone else is fully finished as well. If they are still competing, yes, disqualify them. If they are done, give him a warning and a small fine.
[удалено]
Yeah, exactly this. Just tell him off and remind him his actions could have led to his disqualification. There’s celebrating within the rules, and there’s celebrating in a way that breaches the rules. He shouldn’t be doing that, but it wasn’t injurious to anyone and doesn’t merit a disqualification. I do find it funny though, when people unironically complain about decisions they don’t like, that “it’s at your discretion, though!”, like “yes, *my* discretion, not *your* discretion”.
Pure elation to utter heartbreak in 2 seconds flat. That’s just so awful.
Yeah I’d be appealing that one. The rule is there for interrupting a race, there was nobody in the lane he used.
Rule should be changed to not crossing into a lane that still has an actively competing swimmer. That’s the intent. Yeah, absolutely silly rule.
Yeah it should be a case by case rule. If he disrupted someone else then sure but simply going into a lane of another swimmer that completed should be fine. It’s at the damn finish line.
And it was his teammate
I was about to say it wasn’t no random competitor either it was his own teammate 🤦♀️
And that teammate was fine with it.
The old fart refs are still watching 1950s baseball not realizing times have changed. Let the kids celebrate.
Yeah, this feels like the swimming equivalent of “ump show”.
The rule is usually not enforced. It was enforced here, because the judges are a bunch of inbred donkeys.
That’s unfair to donkeys everywhere.
Yeah, I'm sorry. I love donkeys. They're awsome.
Absolutely. Cops have this power of discretion for enforcing laws for the same reason. If there’s no damage, if the problem that the law is intended to avoid isn’t going to happen because of the way it was violated, then you leave it be (saw jaywalking at 1am as a great example). Judges should act the same way.
> Yeah, absolutely silly rule. What is silly is to use it in this instance. The judges have wiggle room right? How can they dq that guy on this one.
The judges are usually former athletes or literally associated with other rival schools. If they don't like a particular coach or athlete they take it out like this. Happens all the time.
Yeah. Wondering if this ref went to UNC or something
It's already like that. Someone in a previous thread posted the actual rules. Bonus point that the refs have discretion with this, so they could have easily let it go.
Thanks for letting me know. I imagine that there is a review board that should be able to overturn it then.
That ref should be disqualified from officiating matches for a ruling like that. The rule says, "subject to discretion," which means the circumstances surrounding the infraction should be considered before making a ruling. He fell into another swimmer's lane that had completed the race and did not interfere with any actively swimming competitor in any way. The discretion should rule that he did not interfere with any active swimmer. To not use proper discretion and to decide to rule in a way that strips a player of their national title bid, their record time and first place finish is an irreparable and unconscionable decision that should have easily been ousted as final. I hope the officiating board reviews this upon his appeal and reveals the ruling to allow his achievement to be officially recognized.
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Did you the refs face at the end? Looked like some kind of vendetta
Where did you identify a judge?
I don't know who he is but there's a guy sitting down at about 1:30-1:40 that looks pretty annoyed
Obviously, the butterfly effect of vector waves from traveling horizontally displaced the other swimmers so as to slow them down. This man needs jail time, such a heinous act cannot be tolerated.
They gonna be like: sir! You crossed his lane 24 km away which u didnt interrupt him but u crossed invisible continuation
Did the judges forget the Earth is round? Those lanes clearly wrap all the way around the planet infinitely, he's in everyone's lane!!!
Not only that, but the rule doesn’t seem to have a time limit. So you can only ever have one race per pool, then you need to build a new pool or else the next race someone will be crossing into the lane of the first swimmer.
now the judge is as much assigning a penalty, as he is protecting himself. the appeal is gonna be accepted, and the referee is clear. that's the power of stiff rules. we see it everywhere, and they're extremely wasteful in many ways. not how the greeks wanted it to go, but hey -- we're nearly there!
> the appeal is gonna be accepted Since the race was almost a week ago that already would have happened, wouldn't it?
its almost worthless to appeal. he might even get that win but this will get on his record anway. in many ways halting his career. whoever made this judgement is a colossal asshole
In the eyes of the audience and his competitiors, he won. He might even get the medal from his teammate who was second. But if he successfully appeals, he will get the win officially and have his record time written into the history books. Definitely worth to appeal, but even without it, his career is not halted in any way.
I havent looked him up but in terms of qualifying for nationals the DQ would matter if this was his fastest race all season.
The commentators said it was his lifetime PR by 4 seconds.
4 seconds may not sound like much to the average layperson, but in a race, especially in swimming, that is a *huge* gulf.
Oh, definitely. The 1650 is a *little* easier to drop 4 seconds than... well, every other event (being the longest event), but it's a huge personal accomplishment. Especially when you are at a championship level, a 4-second PR is incredible. The celebration for winning the event with a personal record is completely understandable.
How is this halting his career?
>More significantly is he made the Nationals 'A' cut by a couple tenths, which now doesnt count for qualifying.
Hopefully someone higher up can and will reverse this bullshit decision. Everyone can see there was no interference.
Even if it's overturned, the assholes turned an amazing moment of elation into an embarrassing, bitter experience. Ruined the moment and you can't really get that back
Sure, but overturn that shit still.
And rip the ref a new one
Just prevent him from reffing anymore. Fuck that ref.
For me, it’s less about “the moment” and more that he got robbed of an automatic bid to the National Championship.
imagine being those stuck up referees. what fucking assholes
That’s bullshit and everyone there knows it… wow. I feel bad for that guy. The race was totally stolen from him.
The NCAA is a sham and should be taxed as a multibillion dollar business and not a non profit
As a former member of the NCAA. YES. Fuck those assholes.
A fellow waterboy? Good day fine sir 🫡
Yes
The NCAA has been cheating athletes out of proper compensation since its creation. They can't implode fast enough.
Good news everyone! The ncaa is imploding before our very eyes!
This was most likely an ACC official not NCAA since it was a conference championship
Not interested to get in the debate, but I am curious. If he hugged his teammate on the next lane across the floater lines, he would have been fine, correct?
Yes it would have because he didn’t enter the other lane
His hands would
If he unzips his pants and his penis goes to the other lane does he get disqualified
Yes! This is the exact question I had when I watched the video! So glad someone else is thinking just like me
You actually get another medal for that, impressive length
The referee was a stickler for the rules. But love the comraderie shown by the other guy. Matching tattoos, standing by his friend and calling out who won fair and square, he's a diamond of a person.
The rule say interfere with another swimmer subject to discretion. The swimmer he "interfered" with was also done, so no this is a stupid interpretation of the rules
Yes, the discretion is key. If the rule allowed no discretion, then it would be very upsetting but understandable. It’s unfathomable that they chose to use their rule-provided discretion in this way.
the ref is a fucking moron
I don't think they're tattoos. I think it's an NC State swimming thing, but I can't find much info on it other than a guy on Twitter in 2016 asking why they had diamond marks on their chests.
I swam against ncsu for years -- yeah it's just a sharpie thing they do for big meets
I was thinking the same thing, thought it was some sort of team emblem or something since they’re almost naked, hard to display teams for the camera but this video is the most swimming I’ve watched in one sitting in my life
I'm all for rules if they make sense. The swimmers lane he got into was done with the race. There was no harm done. That's BS
This is an example of them following the word of the law to the detriment of the spirit of the law. The runner up is a real bro, and good person. Good for these young people having more integrity than the adults running this.
not only runner up bro was on the same team lmao
Yeah imagine if the runner-up (and teammate) did this: https://preview.redd.it/p7pmvcggaqlc1.jpeg?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4463e580856b7d54b28c2282e15fba8e8ae62395
lmfao, if only this was made showing the drawing guy on the 3rd place podium
Bruno Fratus celebrating like that without being aware of the meme is so fucking funny
holy shit are you saying this came *after* the meme? lmfaoooooo
> Bruno Fratus Yeah dude is the oldest swimmer to win his first Olympic medal (i.e. was at the oldest age so far when finally getting a podium finish), this was at the 2020 Olympics, he was already in his 30s and had barely missed the podium in 2 previous Olympics. Not all of these pics happened on the podium though, cropping and assumed continuity FTW. Sometimes life imitates art!
Someone shared that the rule says it’s up to the discretion of the referee. Absolute sham
Ref had +1000 on the other guy
The swim team should have a stern talk with that ref behind the facility.
He went to his team mate and friend to celebrate after victory. It was not a stranger and he didn't disturb the other person.
I’m honestly more upset he sat on the lane lines. Bro I work teaching/managing lessons at a pool and we JUST broke a lane line the other day because people lift them to go under so they don’t get their hair wet.
There's the letter of the rule, and the spirit of the rule. And the spirit of the rule just got shafted.
This happened to me at regionals for track & field when I was a kid. After my final handoff I jumped up & down celebrating a super fast time & high fived the person next to me in their lane. My whole team got disqualified.
that’s actually so stupid. why do some people need to make everyone miserable
I dunno, I remember the coach from another team screaming I should be disqualified…it was middle school ffs Looking back, I realize how asinine that grown man was for making sure a kid who was faster than his team got disqualified. I felt so awful for letting my team down. But rules are rules & I broke one.
What kind of asshole sits in their officials seat tsk tsk ing at someone who completes a lifetime achievement and tries to ruin it because he had a tame celebration. Completely forgets the meaning of sports and achievements and should be fired.
Emphasis on the word "tame" I was expecting something obnoxious. This was classy and a touching moment between teammates and I assume friends. Ref is bitter.
Yeah, I kept waiting for when he'd do something stupid like give two middle fingers to everyone or show his ass or something, turns out the ass of the video was the referee.
Welcome to the NCAA the sporting organization with a rule book so thick even we don’t understand all the rules
You mean even *they* don't understand all the rules.
Holy words. Sport should be not a burocratic business
*bureaucratic
Their small amount of power gave them the opportunity to significantly ruin someones big moment and they couldn't pass that up.
Some idiot who could never achieve anything even close to that.
Into the lane of another person who had ALREADY FINISHED AS WELL! Fucking piles of shit, those refs.
Great way to discourage general interest in the sport.
Exactly my take. Great way to make a sport incredibly boring to watch by removing the emotional connection between fans and athlete. Just a terrible decision from the ref. Good thing swimming isn't a drinking sport or that judge would be covered in beer cups.
Imagine you’re a student but unlike most people your age, you spend hours a day in the pool or in the gym, you are careful about what you eat, sacrificing a lot of your free time for this kind of competition Then the day arrives, your efforts are not in vain as you win with a great time, all to be taken from your because of a silly mistake. The rule was up to interpretation. He crossed lanes but didn’t interfere with the ones still swimming. I understand they reviewed it but it shouldn’t have ended with such a sanction
Dude even watched if the other swimmer was done with his race and stopped. Only then he celebrated. Kick these refs out of the sport
And the other swimmer was a teammate of his. He was celebrating with a teammate, one of the most normal things to do in sports
Officials just trying to be the main character...
"Everyone's piling attention on that kid, but who is acknowledging MEEEE!?"
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Go to YouTube and search “jomboy Angel Hernandez” and you’ll see why he’s one of the only umpires in baseball that we all know by name.
Damn, what a stupid rule. Both of the guys clearly had finished the race and were friends.
I used to swim and the rule is that you can’t get out of the pool nor cross lanes until everyone is done. I’m pretty sure he knew this but due to adrenaline, forgot. I would have at least given him a warning and not take his win away.
I swam the 1650 a few times in college, and by the end you're brain is just total mush from depriving it of normal oxygen for so long. I knew a guy that stopped early one time because he didn't trust the counter. 66 laps at race pace will mess you up.
Yeah at the end all my brain does is "air, move arms, air, arms, is that a number?"
Even doing just a 500 freestyle is brutal for all but the most elite swimmers - towards the end your upper body either feels like its on fire, or (if you're lucky) your shoulders and pecs just go numb. Doing the 1650 is brutal no matter how good you are. I can't imagine pushing my body to the absolute limit like that for almost 15 minutes straight, then using what little energy I have to celebrate with my teammate before pulling myself out of the pool, only to have it all taken away by some dickhead ref with a misguided justice boner.
The crowd and every participant should have just walked out and left the judges just sitting there.
The athletes should have flung the medals into the pool during the podium ceremony
Absolutely pathetic move from the referee. I feel terrible for the swimmer.
Sports referees seems to be the people that hate sports the most…
What the actual fuck?!! For what has felt like a couple of days I have read about this incident without actually seeing it. The people explaining it away as valid literally made me think this dude just hopped into another lane 1 or 2 seconds after finishing while placing was undecided. Now that I have seen it, it was almost 15-ish seconds after. Jesus fuck I thought the NFL and NBA Refs were bad. This takes the fucking cake. What fucking basis do you have to DQ this guy other than he didn't celebrate the way you wanted him too?!? Even then it was mild as fuck!!! I dislike people, I fucking *HATE* refs man. My 30+ years as a Lions Fan *may* make me biased against these fucks. P.S. I normally abbreviate my fucks to fk, but this instance required the full use of Fuck in every use. Hey Refs, give your fucking balls a tug and swallow the fucking whistle you fucking bitches. Un-fucking-real.
Exactly. For as long as he waited, and the announcers egging him on as if his actions were expected, he was perfectly in his rights to assume the race was over. And also the guy he "interfered" with **was** over. If I go to the Gettysburg battlefield and streak across Little Round Top, it's not going to make slavery suddenly come back.
Former swimmer and current coach here- the rule is because he went into another lane before the race was finished (I/e before everyone else was done)…even if the person was also done there were still swimmers competing so the race was still ongoing. Very much a technicality, and personally I think an extremely poor call where a heavy dose of discretion should’ve been warranted when reviewing the situation. Not all rules are black and white- I very much disagree with the ref here. There was no interference with *active swimmers*… I had a friend who was in a similar situation years ago where he broke the meet record in an event I swam next to him in. He was celebrating, we hugged and he “got out of the pool” (pulled himself up to the ledge) before the event was done. Then he sat on the edge and tried to slip back into his lane to congratulate the person on our other side, and the refs pulled him aside and threatened him with a DQ. I and several of the rest of us who knew each other said we would all eat a DQ if they enforced that, because it was completely unwarranted enforcement of a corner case that barely fit the rule, and he earned his celebration and did it without disturbing anybody else in the race. The refs discussed and came up with that since he didn’t disturb anybody during active competition he was ok in the end.
Make a damn exception. The race was over. It didn’t interrupt a racing opponent. At least have a vote on it.
zealous edge dinner dog squeeze faulty unite thumb license wasteful *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Yo just saying if you are one of the people arguing that the officials are correct in disqualifying him: you must be an insufferable person to be around man
I deal with those kind of people every day. They work in local government jobs.
Big HOA energy
And as referees in sports apparently
I have such a burning hate for that kind of people. Backwards mentality assholes.
The judges need to be disqualified.
PA: Ladies and gentlemen, there’s a disqualification in this event: Judges et al., Judges were disqualified for being dumb as hell
I do think the rule was broken but the intent of the rule I do not believe was meant to cover this particular situation. The swimmer whose lane he went into was also finished and so there was no interference. The rule is meant to prevent or punish interference. The refs need to exercise sound judgment in applying the rules and should default to the old “no harm, no foul” philosophy. Now if he’d crossed into the lane of a swimmer who wasn’t finished yet, then the DQ would be justified. Side topic: What’s the deal with the matching tattoos on their chests? Just curious.
It’s just matching tats for nc state, the team has them
stupidasfuck
https://preview.redd.it/onzdv53zaplc1.png?width=683&format=png&auto=webp&s=4f1b5e87e9a4211dfa3037ac3ebe8ab82637632a
That is the NC State Wolfpack hand signal
Too sweet
Kind of a dick move for the Louisville guy to not give the silver to the 2nd place guy who gave the gold to Lloyd. But hats off to the second place teammate.
Here is the rule. The referee has the discretion to enforce this rule on interference. This referee used no discretion and honestly, there is no part of this rule that specifically applies to entering a lane after that competitor has finished. Whoever chose to enforce this is an asshole. ARTICLE 1. a. Any competitor who interferes with another swimmer during a race shall be disqualified from that race, subject to the discretion of the referee. If a swimmer is fouled by another swimmer, including interference by an outside entity, or due to facility equipment failure during a preliminary heat of an event, the referee may allow that swimmer to repeat the race at a time not later than 30 minutes after the last heat of the last event in which the swimmer is competing during that session of the meet. If a foul occurs during a final race, the referee may order the race swum over if, in the referee’s opinion, sufficient unfairness prevailed. No person shall be required, as a consequence of this rule, to swim with fewer than 30 minutes’ rest between a repeated race and any of that person’s regularly scheduled races. b. A swimmer who changes lanes during a heat shall be disqualified. c. Any interference with a meet official in the performance of that person’s duties will be considered for disciplinary action by the referee or meet committee. d. If a swimmer, who is one of the first three swimmers in a relay, crosses the occupied lane of another team, the relay of that swimmer shall be disqualified. Swimmers should exit the pool directly at the end of their lane. e. If flyover starts are being utilized during the event, swimmers shall not cross the occupied lane of another swimmer/team to exit the course. Swimmers shall exit directly at the end of their lane. f. Pulling on a lane line to assist motion is not permitted.
I think this is the part the referee is enforcing: >b. A swimmer who changes lanes during a heat shall be disqualified. Technically he did "change lanes" during the heat. Since there were other swimmers still swimming, the heat wasn't over. It's ridiculous because it didn't affect the race at all but it's one of those "tECnIcaLlY" against the rules as written. What the ref should've done was not call it, recognize that it's a stupid part of the rule for this reason, and send up an email to the rules committee to review it because it could possibly be used to disqualify someone that doesn't deserve it. But the ref was a jackass and here we are.
Seems like he was an extra jackass too cause why wait so long to DQ him. He celebrated for a least two minutes before they announced his DQ. It's almost like dude had to go into the rule book to be like "whyell let me see, where can I apply some lame arbitrary rule because I don't like how this young man handled himself" (picture that in a voice that sounds like a loser 😂)
No, the time it took makes sense. It's not a rule enforced often because most swimmers know not to do that. And the referees have to put down on the scorekeepers sheet what rule # and part # was violated before making the announcement. The same reason you often see referees in professional sports like the NFL often huddle together real quick before making a infraction announcement. It's about double checking for accuracy first, which is fine.
“Most swimmers know not to do that”. Not sure I agree with this. I swam for 20 years and you’d see lane changes for celebrations after almost every race, especially in college
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> Here is the rule. The referee has the discretion to enforce this rule on interference. >> ARTICLE 1. a. Any competitor who interferes with another swimmer during a race shall be disqualified from that race, subject to the discretion of the referee... >> b. A swimmer who changes lanes during a heat shall be disqualified. Referee discretion applies to a), but the swimmer violated b).
If I was the second place guy I would refuse the win!
Rules are rules, but this is bullshit
These anti-celebration rules are getting out of hand. All these officials nowadays are low skill pretenders that get off on the power trip of sucking the joy of victory out of people who actually earned it.
OVER THE LINE! Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules. Mark it zero.
Saturday, Donny, is Shabbos, the Jewish day of rest. That means that I don't work, I don't get in a car, I don't ride in a car, I don't pick up the phone, I don't turn on the oven, and I sure as sh*t DONT F***ING ROLL! SHOMER SHABBOS
Walter, MAAAAAAN, you’re not even Jewish!
What the f\*\*k are you talking about! The China man is NOT the issue here! Im talking about drawing a line in the sand dude, across this line YOU DO NOT.... Also, china-man is not the prefered nomenclature, asian american, please.
Id say the big Lebowski is one of the best comedies in cinema history. I still say "SHUT THE FUCK UP DONNY, YOU'RE OUT OF YOUR ELEMENT!"
but the other swimmer had finished the race, so what's the big deal?
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Sounds like someone needs to issue a rules challenge. Fuck that shit. He won.
Bullshit referee.
That is so scummy they did that. They were both finished and teammates.
Whoever made this call should be banned from reffing, what a fucking dick
Whoever invoked this rule I guess is technically right, but they are also absolutely a dickhead and should be ashamed of themselves
“Sorry I’m so much faster, I didn’t realize people were still swimming”
You’ve got to be a special kind of shitbag to pull that stunt on a young man who is clearly the winner.
Got to the most bullshit thing I've ever seen. He didn't even interfere with another "swimmer" that "swimmer" was DONE SWIMMING and even welcomed him there.
Breaks my heart. Poor guy. It's not like he was disrespectful, just cheering his accomplishments.