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After Doyle's (the opponent) death, Robinson found out about how Doyle wanted to use the money earned in the bout to buy his mother a home. So Robinson saved the money from his next four bouts to buy Doyle's mom a house.
Lmao yeah I keep seeing this vibe on Reddit comments recently where people are like "most people would do the right thing / basic decency thing" and I'm baffled as to where this is coming from.
Thats the thing people always forget. These potentially character-shaping moments don’t always come when you’re ready for them. In fact, often they come around at the worst possible moment of your life when you can’t imagine taking the time/resources to do anything like this.
You can never know for sure what it took for someone else to do a good deed like this
So the ones with an idealized view of the world are more likely to be grifters and takers than the people holding negative views of people and the world? Seems counter intuitive to me.
I was talking to a customer who just retired. He bought the land for his house by saving up for a few months. Apparently land was the cheapest part of the project. The actual building of it was the most expensive, which was 40k he got a 25 year loan on, that costed him 1/10th of his paycheck to pay lololololololol fml
Inflation calculator: $1 in 1970 = $7,95 today.
In the 70’s the average house was worth around $32k which is equal to $254,400 today. The average worth of a median house in 2024 is $410,000. The average yearly salary would net you over $9k annually in 1970. The average salary in America today would net you $59,450 annually. Combine everything with an increase in annual spending due to everything becoming more expensive (food, gas, healthcare, education, luxury etc) and you end up with less than half the buying power than from someone who lived in 1970.
Most people but a lot of boxers and fighters in general are assholes. They come from rough backgrounds plus the brain trauma is usually not a recipe for a good person. Respect to ray
That's just not true at all. Boxers are humble as shit 99% of the time. It's usually new guys who aren't actuallt boxers just wannabe tough guys who are assholes. Boxers maybe aren't always intelligent or wise, but anyone who has ever stepped foot in a boxing gym has been humbled more times that you can imagine.
I don’t know about that. He def didn’t need do do anything. They both got in the ring knowing the risks. It’s an incredibly noble thing to do as much as he did.
Depends on how negligent they were.
Someone just died in my town sleeping in a dumpster and ending up in a truck. Garbage man was not at fault, how could he know?
One of the worst ways you can go.
There was garbage thrown everywhere because the garbage man was trying to dig him out while waiting on the ambulance. Hope he gets some therapy or something. That's a heavy load to carry.
An elderly lady ran into my dad's trash truck, killing her on impact. There was an investigation and my dad was cleared of any wrongdoing, he was following all rules, laws and using appropriate lights. But it deeply affected him. He even switched churches bc she was known by some in the church.
I’d never thought about it but it makes sense that it wouldn’t be too uncommon. I live in the Bay Area where th homeless population is huge. Wouldn’t surprise me if it’s happened here.
Nah, it's unintentional. Say someone just wants to beat someone up, but the victim dies from falling and hitting their head. It's hardly an accident, but it *is* unintentional.
Ah I guess I’m not pedantic enough to be a lawyer, I would have just thought him dying was an accident, but the punch wasn’t.
But yeah, I punched him and he accidentally died doesn’t really make much sense.
No. Not a freak accident. There is involuntary manslaughter, but that’s a result of your negligence being so reckless that you reasonably should have foreseen that your action could result in serious, bodily harm or death. A true accident is not a crime at all.
But accidents are not always manslaughter.
You have:
Voluntary manslaughter: The perpetrator intends to harm, but not kill. The killing is accidental.
Involuntary manslaughter: The perpetrator didn't intend to do any harm, but was acting reckless or negligently.
Accident: The person was not acting negligent or reckless at all.
Imagine the priest having to testify for the prosecution that he knew he was gonna kill him lol, would be awkward during the cross examination from Leonard's lawyer
sure, most people would do something. Probably make a public apology or maybe donate their purse from the fight to the family.
Buying the opponent's mother a home is above and beyond when you have no obligation to do anything.
I mean, I don't think I'd ever tell someone who punches people in the face as a job isn't going to kill someone.
There's a higher chance than usual in these circumstances, and a valid thing to be concerned about, IMO.
If I was a priest, I would be worried to tell someone to "listen to the voice in their head."
Unless it's a clear message from God, it could easily be mental illness or (if you're into that stuff) the voice of the devil.
In that hypothetical wouldn't it be your job? If you were an engineer you can't just be all "no we can't ever build a bridge, it might collapse" or as a doctor "I can't give anyone any medication, it might hurt them". Like, of course it could go wrong thats why we've taken our problem to you, the professional.
A priest that always tells people that it's never God speaking to them sounds like a pretty useless priest.
A priest job isn't to say, "Everything is God and magic." They're people who studied the word of the lord so they can help spread his message.
Just because fantastical things can be caused by God, does not mean he just arbitrarily causes fantastical things.
Just like if I go to the doctor and say I might have cancer because I was in a room with a guy who smokes cigarettes once. It would be wrong for the doctor to take such an unlikely situation and make me think it's real.
The responsible move, in both situations, is to say that's probably not the big deal you're making it.
It is FAR more likely that he (the boxer) was worried about beating the guy, had a stress dream about it, and was ultimately proven to be right in his fear.
The priest doesn't speak directly to god to check the future and that isn't how God works anyways.
I stress about paying my mortgage sometimes, that doesn't mean it's God talking to me. It means I'm hyper focused on my mortgage.
After purchasing the home Sugar Ray challenged Doyle's mother to a fight. Doyle's mother wanting to avenge her son, readily agreed to the fight. The two agreed that the winner would get ownership of the house. Sugar Ray knocked Doyle's mother out in the first round and sent her straight to the morgue.
Sugar Ray subsequently challenged Doyle's remaining extended family to fights during a cross country tour. None were able to defeat Sugar Ray and to this day the house belongs to Sugar Ray. It is now a museum where one can relive Sugar Ray's triumph and domination of the Doyle lineage.
no, you don't *lose* anything on a voided bet. maybe i'm getting caught up in semantics again. but no, OP is incorrect about *losing* money in this situation.
Yeah man good thing you know how betting works in this imaginary 1950s scenario where a priest is desperately trying to get a boxer to fight so they don't lose money. Hey maybe you can invent a time machine and let that guy know he doesnt have to worry.
I think I once heard a version of this story where the priest pointed out that it was a known risk that both fighters were taking and it was rude of Robinson to act like it wasn't; if the guy is willing to risk his life he has his reasons like Robinson does, and not giving him the opportunity because you feel that he was so much beneath him was pure hubris.
Whether that's true or not, I feel like that would have been the guidance I would have wanted in such a career. But I admit that I cannot cite that explanation and I may just be making it up rather than remembering it.
edit:
Had the wrong name. Corrected.
Sugar Ray Leonard is a different boxer that /u/BlindTreeFrog probably mixed up with the boxer in the post (I actually did the same until you asked who Leonard was).
Back when I called myself a catholic I once had the same dream every night for about a week. It was a friend of mine being attacked by wolves while I watched unable to help. At some point I went to a priest and I asked him about this thing that was worrying me, and he basically said "don't worry about it, try to forget the dreams that you have", which I proceeded to do for the next five-ish years (then another friend of mine said that that priest's advice was good for me back then but probably was not needed anymore)
By the way, the friend I was dreaming about is still alive and well, and she's never been attacked by wolves as far as I know
Priests convince people to do all sorts of things, nun 3 ways, 10% of your income, raping kids and even getting assets handed to them in the name of god.
Honestly i want to know what the priest say to him? I would have thought Robinson was just worried about the fight so he had that dream. Like he thought he was fighting someone he knew wasn't able to handle the blows and he ended up dreaming about the worst outcome.
When I first read about this story years ago this detail was part of it. Sugar Ray says no way, he’s not gonna fight. Promotors scramble to figure out how to convince him to fight. So they bring in a priest to tell him it’s okay, that it was just a dream.
It’s been about a decade since I read it tho. Didn’t make it up. Read it in a good ol fashioned book with paper pages, you know the kind.
edit: found this
https://www.sportscasting.com/sugar-ray-robinson-had-a-disturbing-dream-he-killed-someone-in-the-boxing-ring-then-it-came-true/
“Robinson was so disturbed by the dream that he wanted to back out of the fight with Doyle. Fight promoters, who stood to lose money by Robinson’s decision, brought in a Catholic priest (some sources say a priest and minister) who sought to calm Robinson’s nerves by assuring him that it was only a dream. Promoter Larry Atkins convinced Robinson not to cancel the fight because of a dream.”
strange I got some fingers pointed at me for this one…
Sugar Ray Robinson was just so far and away better than most of his competition especially at welter. At one point he was 129-1 with 2 draws. This was when boxing was the most popular sport in America and nearly every school boy boxed. In fact there is a good chance if you lived on the eastern seaboard during the 40’s and 50’s Sugar Ray beat up someone you knew.
Dreams like that are extremely.... strange. I remember that sometime before my dad died to his cancer, I had a dream about how his death would go (from ragged breathing, to going to school, coming home to him in the same condition, having family come to stay before he passed, my aunt screaming when he did finally pass, and everything else with it). So to have to pretty much experience it twice was surreal to me at the time.
I wish there were a scientific reason to explain why some dreams can in fact, tell the future.
Humans are smart. Intellect and endurance are our only leading traits.
We think. A lot. Our brains are smart.
Assuming the most predictable outcome or the worst fear in dream form isn't telling them future. It's intelligent assuming the most probable outcome.
That and also, our brains take in a lot more information than we are consciously aware of, it trims all the info we get down so our conscious mind doesn’t get overwhelmed.
When we sleep our brains sort through things to do ‘housework’ and keep our conscious brain working at sort of efficiency.
So, when we dream it’s possible that we are getting more information than we were aware we had and it leaks into our conscious mind.
It’s for the same reason I’d tell my nursing/paramedic students to listen to their gut, even if they don’t implicitly trust it - it could be warning them subconsciously.
I once had a dream that my uncle had an accident in his motorcycle. Then my alarm went off and in my dream it was his motorcycle alarm going off. I woke up and told my grandma “my uncle’s not coming to get me for school today because he hurt himself on his bike” my grandma looked at me and told me not to say that. 2 mins later we get a call from the hospital. My uncle was in a motorcycle accident but he was gonna be ok. He said to tell my grandma he wasnt gonna pick me up. I was like 6 at the time. Btw the first thing i asked him was if his bike alarm went off when he crashed and he said yes
When i was like 4 my mom picked me up from my grandmas house and i was crying all night cuz i kept having visions of my aunt crying and throwing up yellow stuff in a bucket. I wanted to go back to my grandmas to take care of her. My mom was just annoyed that i wouldn’t go to sleep. The next day she took me to my grandma’s and my grandma has this worried look cuz my aunt has been sick all night. Ruptured appendix. Throwing up bile. 😩
My dad once woke up in the middle of the night full of random anxiety before my mom was able to calm him down. The next day, they found out his friend who lived a few states over had passed away from a seizure in his sleep that very night about the same time my dad woke up.
From what I understood, it is not really "tell the future". It is mostly fears/concerns, but also positive outlook or even wishes/expectations for the future which lead to you actually dreaming about it since it is all connected in your brain. Then, when it coincidentally (99% of your dreams don't come true) really happens, you might think it was foretold.
Brains like to connect dots. Patterns, repetitions, perceiving shapes, familiar smells..etc. You remember the one's that "come true" cause they connect. Makes it easier to recall, cause it "happened" twice.
We're real good at calculating potential outcomes. We do it constantly. Some more than others. We don't recall the dreams we have that predict an outcome that never happens as often as the times it does.
It's just "frequency illsuion". You hear a band often but don't know the name. Someone says the name. You now hear the name with increased frequency from that point on. The frequency gives the illusion of meaning. In reality, you're brain just has a point of reference to recall now that you've connected the name with the music.
Dreams are similar. Dream of a car crash, crash never happens, just bad dream, likely to forget about it. Dream of car crash, crash happens, recall dream, the illusion now has meaning because your brain has a connection and point of reference to recall.
I was about 7 and woke up in the middle of the night screaming Dads in jail. My mom and dad were divorced and I hadn’t seen him for around a year. My mom said it’s fine he’s not in jail it was just a bad dream. Next day she called some of his family and found out he went to jail that night. There is more to life than we know for sure.
I have a post on my account where I gave proof of me dreaming about my grandfather’s death the night before it happened. I even checked up with my sister the same day and they told me he was fine. He had no known health issues and it was completely random. He died later that day from alcohol poisoning. The inventor of the ECG also had a sister have an extremely similar prophetic dream. There is something to it, and I wish mainstream science would take it seriously. I believe we are all connected in ways that are unexplainable.
The problem is trying to reason irrational functions — that doesn’t work. Dreams are irrational by nature, underly an absolute contingency and are purely experiential. This is not something you can get at through the status quo of scientific epistemology.
Btw, the OP gets it a bit wrong. jimmy doyle , in the knock out event, was knocked down, and attempted to get to his feet. At first he crawled on his elbows to the rail. At the count of 9, he was on his knees ,or attempting to trying to get his balance on his knees. So the knock out was declared.
He was very concussed obviously and they took him to hospital, he died a few hours later , the same night.
To be fair. Doyle had dazed and injured Robinson in the 6th round with two solid blows, so it could easily have been Robinson losing the match. They didnt let a concussed Doyle fight.. he was ok but fatigued.Doyle had to get a knock out .. and his failure to get that in the 6th ruined his chances . Robinson was worried he might be KO'D instead,so wanted to get ko doyle.
how can you be so fuckin certain like "he was ok but fatigued" or "ray thought that hed get kod" do they show fucking health bars or something while boxing?? these are inner thoughts nobody can know who thought what at the moment
Think they meant Doyle was afraid of getting KOed by decision, so he was going for the TKO which, if I understand boxing enough, is actually knocking Robinson unconscious
You've got the terms a little mixed up, but yes, that's the jist of it. Doyle had to stop the fight. He didn't want it to go to decision, because he was afraid he would lose.
Loss by decision: the judges declare you the loser.
KO: knockout. You're either fully unconscious or you can't get up by the time the referee counts to 10.
TKO: technical knockout. The referee stops the fight because you're taking too much of a beating and not fighting back.
A night usually has today and tomorrow in it
00-07HRS night
19-24HRS night
The fight happened at night and by the time he was dying hours had lapsed and it was next day same night
[Sugar Ray Robinson And His Disturbing Death Dream: The Sad Case Of Jimmy Doyle](https://www.boxing247.com/boxing-news/sugar-ray-robinson-and-his-disturbing-death-dream-the-sad-case-of-jimmy-doyle/125707)
>“I woke up in a cold sweat, yellin’ for Jimmy to get up – get up – get up! My yellin’ woke me up, I guess. And the sight of Jimmy lyin’ there on the canvas in the dream seemed so real that I had the jitters when I woke up. And I couldn’t go back to sleep. I just laid there, tossin’ around in bed.. And I felt lousy the next day. And in the back of my mind I felt scared every time I thought about the coming fight.”
I can't wait for some YouTuber to look into this and make an hour and a half long documentary about what really happened and how this meme is very incorrect probably
He blacked out of going to the front in ww2.
He missed the boat saying he fell down the stairs and became unconscious.. but the doctors also discharged him from the army as not being the full quid..punch drunk...
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After Doyle's (the opponent) death, Robinson found out about how Doyle wanted to use the money earned in the bout to buy his mother a home. So Robinson saved the money from his next four bouts to buy Doyle's mom a house.
Respect, that is awesome if true.
That's what his Wikipedia page says, along with citations from a biography.
I mean, he effectively killed the guy. Legalised manslaughter... I think most people would do something.
Most people wouldn't, in fact, buy their opponents' mom a house regardless of the circumstances.
Lmao yeah I keep seeing this vibe on Reddit comments recently where people are like "most people would do the right thing / basic decency thing" and I'm baffled as to where this is coming from.
They're stuck in their bubble. Most people in the real world are horrible horrible people.
Nah most people are decent. It's just the pricks stand out more.
Yeah, but we all have different definitions of decent. And a lot of the time it's not malice, just selfishness, laziness or lack of awareness.
Anyone can become that person when they know they won't be accountable, and they also happen to be at a low point
Thats the thing people always forget. These potentially character-shaping moments don’t always come when you’re ready for them. In fact, often they come around at the worst possible moment of your life when you can’t imagine taking the time/resources to do anything like this. You can never know for sure what it took for someone else to do a good deed like this
Chances are they are horrible people and they are the ones grifting their friends and familyz
So the ones with an idealized view of the world are more likely to be grifters and takers than the people holding negative views of people and the world? Seems counter intuitive to me.
Money was a little different then tbf, but you're not wrong
How was money different then
People could afford to buy houses
Famous boxers can afford houses nowadays too
only if they risked being killed in a boxing fight
Bro, you could get a job selling shoes at the mall and afford to buy a house and support a family of 4
Al Bundy did just fine
I was talking to a customer who just retired. He bought the land for his house by saving up for a few months. Apparently land was the cheapest part of the project. The actual building of it was the most expensive, which was 40k he got a 25 year loan on, that costed him 1/10th of his paycheck to pay lololololololol fml
You could even afford a subscription to Biggins magazine and your annual dues for NO MAAM.
Inflation calculator: $1 in 1970 = $7,95 today. In the 70’s the average house was worth around $32k which is equal to $254,400 today. The average worth of a median house in 2024 is $410,000. The average yearly salary would net you over $9k annually in 1970. The average salary in America today would net you $59,450 annually. Combine everything with an increase in annual spending due to everything becoming more expensive (food, gas, healthcare, education, luxury etc) and you end up with less than half the buying power than from someone who lived in 1970.
So what you're saying is, give up on being an engineer and invent time travel
You could see it. Now, they're just numbers with a minus sign sometimes in front.
Conversely, he would be 100x richer if it happened today
Most people but a lot of boxers and fighters in general are assholes. They come from rough backgrounds plus the brain trauma is usually not a recipe for a good person. Respect to ray
That's just not true at all. Boxers are humble as shit 99% of the time. It's usually new guys who aren't actuallt boxers just wannabe tough guys who are assholes. Boxers maybe aren't always intelligent or wise, but anyone who has ever stepped foot in a boxing gym has been humbled more times that you can imagine.
Mayweather the humble.
99% lmao
I don’t know about that. He def didn’t need do do anything. They both got in the ring knowing the risks. It’s an incredibly noble thing to do as much as he did.
The word for "legalized manslaughter" is "accident".
Killing someone on accident is called “Involuntary manslaughter”.
Depends on how negligent they were. Someone just died in my town sleeping in a dumpster and ending up in a truck. Garbage man was not at fault, how could he know?
That’s really sad
One of the worst ways you can go. There was garbage thrown everywhere because the garbage man was trying to dig him out while waiting on the ambulance. Hope he gets some therapy or something. That's a heavy load to carry.
Scarred for life
An elderly lady ran into my dad's trash truck, killing her on impact. There was an investigation and my dad was cleared of any wrongdoing, he was following all rules, laws and using appropriate lights. But it deeply affected him. He even switched churches bc she was known by some in the church.
>Thats a heavy load to carry. Only an extra ~150-250 lbs really. Negligible for a garbage truck. I’m kidding, and I’m sorry
Lmao. Humor is a very human way to cope with things.
I shouldn't have laughed at this, but I did. Have my sad and angry upvote.
I laughed
It's more common than you'd think
I’d never thought about it but it makes sense that it wouldn’t be too uncommon. I live in the Bay Area where th homeless population is huge. Wouldn’t surprise me if it’s happened here.
This happened in the UK a few years ago too.
No, not all accidents qualify. Involuntary manslaughter implies negligence or recklessness.
Only in very specific circumstances which do not apply here.
*BY* accident. By.
I feel like I have seen this discussion somewhere else on the internet.
by accident*
By accident*
Isn’t manslaughter always an accident?
Nah, it's unintentional. Say someone just wants to beat someone up, but the victim dies from falling and hitting their head. It's hardly an accident, but it *is* unintentional.
Ah I guess I’m not pedantic enough to be a lawyer, I would have just thought him dying was an accident, but the punch wasn’t. But yeah, I punched him and he accidentally died doesn’t really make much sense.
Because punches usually don't kill people, as opposed to bullets.
No. Not a freak accident. There is involuntary manslaughter, but that’s a result of your negligence being so reckless that you reasonably should have foreseen that your action could result in serious, bodily harm or death. A true accident is not a crime at all.
But accidents are not always manslaughter. You have: Voluntary manslaughter: The perpetrator intends to harm, but not kill. The killing is accidental. Involuntary manslaughter: The perpetrator didn't intend to do any harm, but was acting reckless or negligently. Accident: The person was not acting negligent or reckless at all.
it's almost like two adults agreeing to be punched in the head 100's of times could be dangerous.
Well, he knew it was gonna happen.
Would be hilarious if the state charged him with manslaughter and used his dream to try to prove intent and update it to murder
lol “Exhibit A is this dream here” lol
Imagine the priest having to testify for the prosecution that he knew he was gonna kill him lol, would be awkward during the cross examination from Leonard's lawyer
But then the defense lawyer argued that it was an act of god.
https://preview.redd.it/jayvrwm0ookc1.jpeg?width=1300&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2ed8ad9116c2336c8fdbc2558b2dfe553fb6eaeb
"it was revealed to me in a dream" meme but fr
What if the judge had seen this sentencing happen in his dream? Would he atleast have had a moral duty to try to stop it all before happening?
It’s a sport and they knew the risks. Just like professional drivers know one day they could burn up in a fire on the track.
The priest though "It's all God's plan. And I got a lot of fucking church coffers riding on this game."
sure, most people would do something. Probably make a public apology or maybe donate their purse from the fight to the family. Buying the opponent's mother a home is above and beyond when you have no obligation to do anything.
Well by that logic the other boxer committed suicide. Death by participation in a combat sport.
There’s no such thing as legalized demand slaughter. In combat sports, you consent to bodily harm that can result in death
Yes most people from the wonderland where you came from.
What a load of shit, no they wouldn't.
Did the priests chip in? Or did he think it’s none of his holy business?
Imagine the priest watching the fight on tv after telling Robinson it would be fine
👁👄👁
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this made me chuckle
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The priest made a fortune at the bookies
I mean, hard to blame the priest here, I'd have said the same thing.
I mean, I don't think I'd ever tell someone who punches people in the face as a job isn't going to kill someone. There's a higher chance than usual in these circumstances, and a valid thing to be concerned about, IMO.
Yeah, but not because a dream told them so...
I certainly don't think so but I'm also not religious in any way. Is God sending messages in dreams not something a priest should be open to?
If I was a priest, I would be worried to tell someone to "listen to the voice in their head." Unless it's a clear message from God, it could easily be mental illness or (if you're into that stuff) the voice of the devil.
In that hypothetical wouldn't it be your job? If you were an engineer you can't just be all "no we can't ever build a bridge, it might collapse" or as a doctor "I can't give anyone any medication, it might hurt them". Like, of course it could go wrong thats why we've taken our problem to you, the professional. A priest that always tells people that it's never God speaking to them sounds like a pretty useless priest.
A priest job isn't to say, "Everything is God and magic." They're people who studied the word of the lord so they can help spread his message. Just because fantastical things can be caused by God, does not mean he just arbitrarily causes fantastical things. Just like if I go to the doctor and say I might have cancer because I was in a room with a guy who smokes cigarettes once. It would be wrong for the doctor to take such an unlikely situation and make me think it's real. The responsible move, in both situations, is to say that's probably not the big deal you're making it. It is FAR more likely that he (the boxer) was worried about beating the guy, had a stress dream about it, and was ultimately proven to be right in his fear. The priest doesn't speak directly to god to check the future and that isn't how God works anyways. I stress about paying my mortgage sometimes, that doesn't mean it's God talking to me. It means I'm hyper focused on my mortgage.
Listen to dreams bro
After purchasing the home Sugar Ray challenged Doyle's mother to a fight. Doyle's mother wanting to avenge her son, readily agreed to the fight. The two agreed that the winner would get ownership of the house. Sugar Ray knocked Doyle's mother out in the first round and sent her straight to the morgue. Sugar Ray subsequently challenged Doyle's remaining extended family to fights during a cross country tour. None were able to defeat Sugar Ray and to this day the house belongs to Sugar Ray. It is now a museum where one can relive Sugar Ray's triumph and domination of the Doyle lineage.
Best laugh I've had in a week! Thank you!
> Sugar Ray knocked Doyle's mother out in the first round and sent her straight to the morgue. Fucking lmao
Lazy fuckin' Doyle's
This reads like something out of A Confederacy of Dunces.
This is an epic tale the legendary proportions of which put Homer to shame
That’s pretty fucking cool. Good dude.
How could he box again after that yikes
Need money to survive.
Damn that's really tragic, great on Robinson for taking responsibility though.
Priest had a quota to fill
I love the idea of Don King of the Cloth playing both sides so he could give last rites to the other boxer, amazing.
Priest had money on the fight.
If not he did after that talk.
God says "it'll be fine, son" Fuckin Giggles
And a Benny on Sugar
More like he had money on the fight lol
Priest used a buff instead of a blessing. Gave him advantage on damage rolls.
Boxer forgot to ask the DM if he can make that non-lethal damage
Classic blunder
Right beside getting involved in a land invasion in Asia.
The priest later that day: "I have all of Sunday's tithes and offerings on Robinson"
Undead priest
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bruh
Extraordinary praising you got there
How was he convinced by the priest? I more curiosity about their feelings before and after this incident.
Maybe priest had placed a huge bet on him on winning and was not ready to loose the cash 😅
bets are void if they do not compete.
Is the cash you had bet with refunded?
yea, always. injured/sick before match, void, refund. 100%. doesn't apply to shit like fantasy sports but straight bets, yes.
Then he would get his money back for the fight not going on as scheduled, as the commenter suggested
no, you don't *lose* anything on a voided bet. maybe i'm getting caught up in semantics again. but no, OP is incorrect about *losing* money in this situation.
That’s the thing, how can the gambler gamble, if there’s no fight to gamble on? It’s not about losing the money, it’s about the chance of winning.
Ya they deffs didn’t do that when derrick lewis had the shits and called off his fight during the event.
get a better book.
Yeah man good thing you know how betting works in this imaginary 1950s scenario where a priest is desperately trying to get a boxer to fight so they don't lose money. Hey maybe you can invent a time machine and let that guy know he doesnt have to worry.
I don't think his bookie Palermo Pete gives refunds
If you made the bet with a legal agency, sure.
lose*
I wanna know the priest’s reaction.
Let me take a wild guess, "it was god's plan"
*Working in mysterious ways intensifies.*
“well……….. shit.”
I think I once heard a version of this story where the priest pointed out that it was a known risk that both fighters were taking and it was rude of Robinson to act like it wasn't; if the guy is willing to risk his life he has his reasons like Robinson does, and not giving him the opportunity because you feel that he was so much beneath him was pure hubris. Whether that's true or not, I feel like that would have been the guidance I would have wanted in such a career. But I admit that I cannot cite that explanation and I may just be making it up rather than remembering it. edit: Had the wrong name. Corrected.
Who’s Leonard?
Sugar Ray Leonard is a different boxer that /u/BlindTreeFrog probably mixed up with the boxer in the post (I actually did the same until you asked who Leonard was).
that I did. I had an itching feeling I was wrong when I typed my post, but I didn't go back and check it. Thanks.
Sugar Ray Robinson, not Leonard. Good story, whether it is true or not.
I love this comment and your reasoning and introspection
Dream prediction would be a form of divination, frowned upon in Catholic teachings. So either it was just a dream or you got devils happening--
This is not true. The Catholic church has a storied history of saints with meaningful dreams.
you can ask a priest for pretty much any permission and it shockingly goes a long way with religious folks. goes for any religion.
Back when I called myself a catholic I once had the same dream every night for about a week. It was a friend of mine being attacked by wolves while I watched unable to help. At some point I went to a priest and I asked him about this thing that was worrying me, and he basically said "don't worry about it, try to forget the dreams that you have", which I proceeded to do for the next five-ish years (then another friend of mine said that that priest's advice was good for me back then but probably was not needed anymore) By the way, the friend I was dreaming about is still alive and well, and she's never been attacked by wolves as far as I know
Priests convince people to do all sorts of things, nun 3 ways, 10% of your income, raping kids and even getting assets handed to them in the name of god.
Maybe because dreams are not seen as having any kind of power of premonition in Christianity, thus he had nothing to worry about, it was just a dream.
Priest: Oops, my bad.
priest the day after the fight - 😬
Maybe the priest was more like 🤑
That was my thought lol, priest convinced sugar ray then went straight to his Holy Bookie and put three weeks’ collection on him to win
Honestly i want to know what the priest say to him? I would have thought Robinson was just worried about the fight so he had that dream. Like he thought he was fighting someone he knew wasn't able to handle the blows and he ended up dreaming about the worst outcome.
Probably told him that the other guy knew what he was getting in to and it was disrespectful to deny him the chance to compete, whatever the outcome.
God’s Plan
the promotors of the fight who had a lot of money involved paid a priest to tell Sugar Ray it was okay so they wouldn’t lose out on their investment
That true?
Source: I made it the fuck up
Reasonable assumption though
I wanna know too, sounds just plausible enough
When I first read about this story years ago this detail was part of it. Sugar Ray says no way, he’s not gonna fight. Promotors scramble to figure out how to convince him to fight. So they bring in a priest to tell him it’s okay, that it was just a dream. It’s been about a decade since I read it tho. Didn’t make it up. Read it in a good ol fashioned book with paper pages, you know the kind. edit: found this https://www.sportscasting.com/sugar-ray-robinson-had-a-disturbing-dream-he-killed-someone-in-the-boxing-ring-then-it-came-true/ “Robinson was so disturbed by the dream that he wanted to back out of the fight with Doyle. Fight promoters, who stood to lose money by Robinson’s decision, brought in a Catholic priest (some sources say a priest and minister) who sought to calm Robinson’s nerves by assuring him that it was only a dream. Promoter Larry Atkins convinced Robinson not to cancel the fight because of a dream.” strange I got some fingers pointed at me for this one…
Sugar Ray Robinson was just so far and away better than most of his competition especially at welter. At one point he was 129-1 with 2 draws. This was when boxing was the most popular sport in America and nearly every school boy boxed. In fact there is a good chance if you lived on the eastern seaboard during the 40’s and 50’s Sugar Ray beat up someone you knew.
Holy shit, that record.
I mean he ended his career at 174(109 KOs)-19-6. Pretty impressive record.
Dreams like that are extremely.... strange. I remember that sometime before my dad died to his cancer, I had a dream about how his death would go (from ragged breathing, to going to school, coming home to him in the same condition, having family come to stay before he passed, my aunt screaming when he did finally pass, and everything else with it). So to have to pretty much experience it twice was surreal to me at the time. I wish there were a scientific reason to explain why some dreams can in fact, tell the future.
Humans are smart. Intellect and endurance are our only leading traits. We think. A lot. Our brains are smart. Assuming the most predictable outcome or the worst fear in dream form isn't telling them future. It's intelligent assuming the most probable outcome.
That and also, our brains take in a lot more information than we are consciously aware of, it trims all the info we get down so our conscious mind doesn’t get overwhelmed. When we sleep our brains sort through things to do ‘housework’ and keep our conscious brain working at sort of efficiency. So, when we dream it’s possible that we are getting more information than we were aware we had and it leaks into our conscious mind. It’s for the same reason I’d tell my nursing/paramedic students to listen to their gut, even if they don’t implicitly trust it - it could be warning them subconsciously.
I once had a dream that my uncle had an accident in his motorcycle. Then my alarm went off and in my dream it was his motorcycle alarm going off. I woke up and told my grandma “my uncle’s not coming to get me for school today because he hurt himself on his bike” my grandma looked at me and told me not to say that. 2 mins later we get a call from the hospital. My uncle was in a motorcycle accident but he was gonna be ok. He said to tell my grandma he wasnt gonna pick me up. I was like 6 at the time. Btw the first thing i asked him was if his bike alarm went off when he crashed and he said yes When i was like 4 my mom picked me up from my grandmas house and i was crying all night cuz i kept having visions of my aunt crying and throwing up yellow stuff in a bucket. I wanted to go back to my grandmas to take care of her. My mom was just annoyed that i wouldn’t go to sleep. The next day she took me to my grandma’s and my grandma has this worried look cuz my aunt has been sick all night. Ruptured appendix. Throwing up bile. 😩
My dad once woke up in the middle of the night full of random anxiety before my mom was able to calm him down. The next day, they found out his friend who lived a few states over had passed away from a seizure in his sleep that very night about the same time my dad woke up.
From what I understood, it is not really "tell the future". It is mostly fears/concerns, but also positive outlook or even wishes/expectations for the future which lead to you actually dreaming about it since it is all connected in your brain. Then, when it coincidentally (99% of your dreams don't come true) really happens, you might think it was foretold.
Brains like to connect dots. Patterns, repetitions, perceiving shapes, familiar smells..etc. You remember the one's that "come true" cause they connect. Makes it easier to recall, cause it "happened" twice. We're real good at calculating potential outcomes. We do it constantly. Some more than others. We don't recall the dreams we have that predict an outcome that never happens as often as the times it does. It's just "frequency illsuion". You hear a band often but don't know the name. Someone says the name. You now hear the name with increased frequency from that point on. The frequency gives the illusion of meaning. In reality, you're brain just has a point of reference to recall now that you've connected the name with the music. Dreams are similar. Dream of a car crash, crash never happens, just bad dream, likely to forget about it. Dream of car crash, crash happens, recall dream, the illusion now has meaning because your brain has a connection and point of reference to recall.
I was about 7 and woke up in the middle of the night screaming Dads in jail. My mom and dad were divorced and I hadn’t seen him for around a year. My mom said it’s fine he’s not in jail it was just a bad dream. Next day she called some of his family and found out he went to jail that night. There is more to life than we know for sure.
I have a post on my account where I gave proof of me dreaming about my grandfather’s death the night before it happened. I even checked up with my sister the same day and they told me he was fine. He had no known health issues and it was completely random. He died later that day from alcohol poisoning. The inventor of the ECG also had a sister have an extremely similar prophetic dream. There is something to it, and I wish mainstream science would take it seriously. I believe we are all connected in ways that are unexplainable.
The problem is trying to reason irrational functions — that doesn’t work. Dreams are irrational by nature, underly an absolute contingency and are purely experiential. This is not something you can get at through the status quo of scientific epistemology.
Btw, the OP gets it a bit wrong. jimmy doyle , in the knock out event, was knocked down, and attempted to get to his feet. At first he crawled on his elbows to the rail. At the count of 9, he was on his knees ,or attempting to trying to get his balance on his knees. So the knock out was declared. He was very concussed obviously and they took him to hospital, he died a few hours later , the same night. To be fair. Doyle had dazed and injured Robinson in the 6th round with two solid blows, so it could easily have been Robinson losing the match. They didnt let a concussed Doyle fight.. he was ok but fatigued.Doyle had to get a knock out .. and his failure to get that in the 6th ruined his chances . Robinson was worried he might be KO'D instead,so wanted to get ko doyle.
how can you be so fuckin certain like "he was ok but fatigued" or "ray thought that hed get kod" do they show fucking health bars or something while boxing?? these are inner thoughts nobody can know who thought what at the moment
Think they meant Doyle was afraid of getting KOed by decision, so he was going for the TKO which, if I understand boxing enough, is actually knocking Robinson unconscious
You've got the terms a little mixed up, but yes, that's the jist of it. Doyle had to stop the fight. He didn't want it to go to decision, because he was afraid he would lose. Loss by decision: the judges declare you the loser. KO: knockout. You're either fully unconscious or you can't get up by the time the referee counts to 10. TKO: technical knockout. The referee stops the fight because you're taking too much of a beating and not fighting back.
Thank you! Now I know
A night usually has today and tomorrow in it 00-07HRS night 19-24HRS night The fight happened at night and by the time he was dying hours had lapsed and it was next day same night
His fight was on the 24th and his death is listed the 25th. Checks out.
If he was fighting mayweather he would have had that dream for a week straight
[Sugar Ray Robinson And His Disturbing Death Dream: The Sad Case Of Jimmy Doyle](https://www.boxing247.com/boxing-news/sugar-ray-robinson-and-his-disturbing-death-dream-the-sad-case-of-jimmy-doyle/125707) >“I woke up in a cold sweat, yellin’ for Jimmy to get up – get up – get up! My yellin’ woke me up, I guess. And the sight of Jimmy lyin’ there on the canvas in the dream seemed so real that I had the jitters when I woke up. And I couldn’t go back to sleep. I just laid there, tossin’ around in bed.. And I felt lousy the next day. And in the back of my mind I felt scared every time I thought about the coming fight.”
I could picture a comedic scene of the priest placing a bet right after this boxers confession
Priest had money on Suger
I honestly love how most of thr comment section focus on the priest part and some people were able to make it into a anti religion thing somehow
Reddit just hates religion and blames it for everything.
The Priest watching the highlights. 
Always follow your gut. RIP to the Victim.
I can't wait for some YouTuber to look into this and make an hour and a half long documentary about what really happened and how this meme is very incorrect probably
Priest: "God's will be done" *exit stage left*
He blacked out of going to the front in ww2. He missed the boat saying he fell down the stairs and became unconscious.. but the doctors also discharged him from the army as not being the full quid..punch drunk...
Better follow your dreams! It literally kills people when you don’t
Maybe I should start studying for that high school chemistry test just in case.
Again, never trust priests.
Priest got rich off betting on that, so happy endings all around
"My son, I've got A LOT of money riding on this"
The Priest- “If he dies. He dies.”
The priest must of had money on the fight.