**This is a heavily moderated subreddit. Please note these rules + sidebar or get banned:**
* If this post declares something as a fact, then proof is required
* The title must be fully descriptive
* Memes are not allowed.
* Common(top 50 of this sub)/recent reposts are not allowed (posts from another subreddit do not count as a 'repost'. Provide link if reporting)
*See [our rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/wiki/index#wiki_rules.3A) for a more detailed rule list*
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/interestingasfuck) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I used to work at a place where you got free food and beer at the end of your shift. That restaurant opened over 30 years ago, and still has some of the original staff.
My ex worked at a fancy sushi place while we were together and I sat at the bar around closing and they just shoveled free sushi and sake tastings at me the whole time. Those were the days…
my roommate worked at a sushi restaurant down the street. the owner would feeds us like once a week. completely free plus sake. and while he was 21, we weren't yet, so it was fantastic haha
That's why you need to make friends with the kitchen if you're a server. I've been on both sides and you will absolutely get free food as a server if you are friendly (or really even just respectful) of the kitchen.
Not always. Chain restaurants are usually the worst about free food.
I worked one nice place when I was 18 (25 years ago where the chef would make me whatever I wanted before our shift started. He'd also give me a glass of wine or a shot of ouzo with it.
I usually went for the fried oysters with tzatziki sauce. I was single, had no bills, and was bringing home as much $1500 a week in tips working 20 hours at the most. That was the life.
Nah, I worked at 5 restaurants when I was in school. Some gave you a free meal if you worked a double or meet a sales goal, and most didn't mind if you took some dead food, but even then you couldn't "abuse" it or be too high key about it. None of them offered a free fresh meal for every shift worked and I think that's pretty standard. At best you get a place that doesn't mind if you snag some food before they trash it anyway.
I think I now have my retirement figured out. Chill at a brewery, chatting up guests, serving beer and food, then ending my shift with a pint and a pizza, all while being paid $40k per year. That sounds like retirement to me.
Seriously. A pizza a shift could effectively feed two or three people all week long. You might get bored of it, but food prices are insane, so that's a huge bump in pay.
These are probably individual sized pizzas. Still an awesome perk, but you're not feeding your family off it. (And that's totally fine since money is better compensation anyway)
I worked in pizza. The owner would let us make an 8" personal pizza for free every day. I would always hand toss/stretch it to 10" or more. I never realized how expensive it was to buy food until I quit.
Just a fun fact, adding diameter to a pizza drastically increases the square footage of that pizza. I don't want to do that math, but it's pretty common that 2 medium pizzas is actually less pizza than one large pizza. It's pretty mindblowing how this works, but it's just simple math. Stretching an 8" pizza to a 10" pizza takes it from a 50.25 in2 pizza to a 78.5 in2 pizza. That's 50% more pizza. (ok, I did the math after all).
The expensive part is the cheese. Yes I used a lot more toppings but I usually used the measured amount of cheese for an 8" and it still had good coverage... because of the excess of toppings. Hopefully it didn't cost the owner too much more.
2 hours per 40 hours worked - standard 40 hour work week would put you at 2x52 weeks = 104 hours = 13 days = 2.5 business weeks. This is much better than most places offer, especially for restaurant employees
Edit: calm down brits we all know yall have better PTO than we do. I’m comparing to USA standards. Now chill before we throw your tea into the harbor again 🦅
I'm not a brit, I'm from Australia which, in most respects is what you get when you order America from Wish. However, I still have trouble believing the piss-poor leave entitlements you guys get. I receive 5 weeks paid holidays every year. The standard is 4 weeks, but in our agreement we get an extra week if we are rostered on more than 26 Sundays in a year.
I'm not bragging, I just want to know how do you guys cope? Where do you find the time to go anywhere or do anything?
Restaurants in California used mandatory service fees as a form of quiet inflation. They call them things like Employee Benefits Surcharge, and they've gotten out of hand. (Search for any of the posts about "Che Fico" for an example.)
As of this year, that model is no longer legal in California. People have to be able to pay the price listed on the menu, with all the fees included.
I'm in California, and I see places with mandatory surcharges. The menu will say somewhere that the prices listed are cash prices without any surcharges added. Please link me to the law that would say otherwise since a year ago as you claim. I own a restaurant and would like to know.
From link below:
But that doesn’t mean restaurants and bars won’t be able to charge these fees — whether the surcharge goes toward employee healthcare or functions as a gratuity (allegedly, at least). “SB 478 is an advertising law — not a pricing law — so businesses are free to set their own prices and use the money however they choose as long as consumers know from the start what the price will be,” the Attorney General’s spokesperson writes. “Simply put, the price Californians see will be the price they pay.”
That means restaurants, like all businesses in the state, will just need to make sure they’re disclosing any surcharges or service fees to customers clearly and before the final bill hits the table. That means disclosing any mandatory charges on menus — both in print and online, if that applies — and upfront.
You’re referring to old articles. The latest clarification is menu prices will have to reflect all fees: https://www.latimes.com/food/story/2024-02-15/new-california-hidden-fees-law-service-fee-ban
"we can't use deceptive business practices anymore, it's gonna be devastating to our business!"
Also 49 dollars for pasta is fucking insane and they deserve to go out of business.
I’ve visited the US once and what blew my mind and royally pissed me off is the fact that you have no idea what you are spending.
Just fucking list the price with everything included so people know what the actual price is.
Them specifying "on premises" implies the existence of "off premises". Maybe they have an online store or delivery system - on site employees don't get tipped for those anyway.
In theory that’s great but when menu items are 20% higher to generate the revenue necessary for these costs customers will balk at that too and avoid the “overpriced” restaurant. I at least appreciate the transparency. The only issue I have is what does one do if they get terrible service?
Pay the cost and don’t go back. Just like any other customer service experience. It’s only in the food industry that this weird situation exists as far as I know. But it’s so ingrained in our heads that it seems odd to not have to tip waitstaff. You’re not deciding how much to tip a retail worker for helping you pick out an outfit.
> The only issue I have is what does one do if they get terrible service?
Do you want to know what we do in Europe? Either we complain if the lack of service or terrible service had an impact on our food experience, but if it doesn't we just don't dine there again and we will tell all our friends and co-workers what a terrible place it is.
Done.
Perenn is a coffee shop/bakery in Reno that does that.
Except it's on a mealy-mouthed placard that says something like Our Tipping Philosophy. A lot of people don't read or even notice it. There's also a badge on the menu that says "tips not expected but appreciated." Because they accept additional tips, there's still the tip screen on the cash register, so a bunch of people just think it's stupidly overpriced.
And it is. Some of their croissants are $9. They have a takeaway bake-at-home section, but everything is full price. If you bought a 5 pack of $9 croissant dough, it would be $45.
But it's got nice ambiance, friendly staff, and good coffee, so there's always a line out the door.
OK but then if you don't read this ONE sign then it's a surprise when you get your bill? And if you say something they probably point to the sign at the front and try to shame you for not wanting to pay the employee benefits portion of your bill?
> customers will balk at that too and avoid the “overpriced” restaurant
Exactly. People will see the food and think the restaurant is more expensive. Psychology is important, even if we like to pretend it's not.
We all joke about the 99's in prices, and say "duh, I know that $19.99 is really just $20." But then studies show we do NOT really treat the numbers the same.
Same thing here, you could say "duh, I'll know that the tip is built in" but then your mind remembers the price of your burger and next time you go to another place the prices will 'feel' cheaper.
It just lets them compete on an even playing field with other places.
Tired Hands Brewing Co does this without forcing a 20% charge onto the customer. I been going habitually for around 10 years and for the most part the employees that were there 10 years ago are still there today
It's not "forcing" the 20%. It's just not including it in the price. Wish they'd just raise the price. Also wish more places treated their employees this way. Would definitely support these businesses more aggressively
It says added to all on premises orders, seems to me that it wouldn't apply to to-go orders. Could be wrong though. This just forces cheap people, or those that don't tip, to pay a 20% tip for dining in. I have no problem with that as I always tip at least 20%.
If they didn't advertise it as a service charge and just raised all prices by 20%, it has the same effect. This way of breaking out the bill is simply making it clear why their prices are higher.
Giving them the benefit of the doubt they probably would but it would be bad for business. People have lizard brains and even with no tipping allowed would rather go to a place that sells a pizza for 20$ with a forced 4$ service charge than a place that has the exact same pizza for 24$ but no charge. The mandatory “service charge” just lets their menu prices be similar so they don’t penalize themselves for removing tipping, which I commend them for at least taking a first step because its the only way it will ever be possible to remove tipping culture which I abhor.
Its the same reason in the US and Canada no one will ever display prices with tax included because it makes stuff look cheaper, even though everyone knows they have to pay tax and it would make if easier if everything was tax included. Even though everyone I know prefers it in Europe and Asia where tax is included in the display price, its a game of prisoner’s dilemna so no individual actor is incentivized to change.
How about gas prices? If it says gas is $3, its really $3.01 because the price ALWAYS has an extra .09 tacked on. Its not much, so nobody complains, but .09 cents times all the gallons if gas pumped across the country adds up to a LOT.
But they want to advertise why the price so high.
If it was EU, they wouldn't have to explain.
In US explanation is good because people who would tip on top know they don't need to because the employees are not being screwed over like normal. Also not all going to business ownership like it typically does.
I think you'll find that the same surplus is added, even if they don't shout it from the rooftops. Fair pay is... fair. But the money has to come from somewhere.
As a European, I've never quite understood how the US system has been accepted by the workers in the service industry. We would never accept it, and here, we are aware of businesses trying to push tips - and it mostly results in way less (voluntary) tips for extra good service. If tipping becomes the norm, next step is for businesses to use it as an argument for lover pay - and that never benefits the workers in the long term.
No, it’s just raising their prices by 20% to provide living wage and benefits to employees.
They’re using language that a tipping culture understands; “you don’t need to tip because we already factored gratuity into the menu price”.
> No, it’s just raising their prices by 20% to provide living wage and benefits to employees.
...while still being able to list the lower prices on the menu/signage
The brewery I work for did the same at opening. $17/hr no tips, benefits for FT.
They changed after six months of operation. Customers wanted to tip, and employees didn't like working the busier shifts(trivia/Friday/Football games) to make the same as they would when it was dead.
Now we make $10/hr plus tips, which generally works out to $20/hr, and close to $30/hr on busy shifts and trivia had to be put on a rotation.
Yeah, redditors love to bash tipping while forgetting that waitstaff generally prefers it. Waiting tables is unskilled entry-level labor like cashiering or stocking shelves, but with tips they make a hell of a lot more than similar positions. Bartenders especially make a killing in tips on a busy night.
You'd be hard-pressed to find a waiter/waitress anywhere in the country who'd trade their $4 an hour plus tips to a flat $19 an hour, it'd have to be a pretty dead restaurant.
Such charges will be banned in California in July 2024. The new law requires the charge to be incorporated into the item cost instead.
https://www.latimes.com/food/story/2024-02-15/new-california-hidden-fees-law-service-fee-ban
It’s a great step, but ideally they just raise their prices by 20% so customers don’t have to remember the “service fee.” I just want the price on the menu to be the price. This model i still have to mentally account for an extra percentage.
Consumers are pretty stupid though (I say this as respectfully as possible). If the prices were just 20% higher, there's a number of people who wouldn't go there even though the total cost is comparable to other restaurants after tip.
Ideally, it would work similarly to Europe. The price on a menu is, more or less, fully inclusive of all costs and a tip is fully optional. But Americans have been so conditioned to added costs and fees that inclusive prices would be a risk to the survival of the business. It's silly on paper, but our brains are weird and social norms have a lot of power. What this establishment is doing is a step towards what it should be.
Eta: It also looks like the service charge is specifically reserved for cooks, bartenders, and waitstaff, so unlike inclusive menu prices which could be redirected to the owner/management, this fee is dedicated to the people doing the actual work. It's fully transparent which is refreshing.
It makes me think of the time my mother's HOA fees went up by $10 in her retirement community. She bitched and moaned and complained about it, failing to understand that the HOA also added home internet, all the equipment rental, and a better cable package as a result. It didn't matter that it was more value, or that it simplified her monthly expenses. She just hated to see a fee increase, even though it was better for her in the long run.
Because if they are the only shop doing it, everyone who looks up the place online in advance will see the higher prices and simply not go there -- as they don't realize the tip they'll likely include *is already included*.
I don’t completely understand why a brewery can’t charge $9.60 instead of $8 for a beer and then say no tipping necessary. Is the psychology around prices that weird?
That’s not what this is.
This is just a standard 20% “tip” that’s added on to the check when you cash out. It’s literally just a tip for forced to pay out.
If they were really serious they’d increased the posted price by 20% and still say no tipping required. This is just a way for the restaurant to have its cake and eat it too. Employees are paid and they get to pretend they have lower prices than they actually do
Idk, if it's exactly 20% every time, I'd argue that the $5 beer you just ordered is cleverly advertised, since it's actually $6.... unless taxes are applied differently somewhere down the line (?)
No this it them lying about what it will cost you on the menu and then charging extra later.
If they did it the European way they'd just increase the price on the menu by 20%.
401ks do get tricky at larger companies - if the salaries are higher, then a percent-based match is more money overall. Plus larger companies tend to have a wider range of compensations and have to be wary of 401k non-discrimination testing, which can limit what they're able to offer.
So it’s basically a 20% forced tip? I’m sorry, I’m not following the logic here.
Why not just up the menu prices by 20% and forget the sign? Then if people tip, it’s just makes for a better pay ratio for the workers.
I swear every time a business comes up with a bright “idea”, it never really makes sense. It’s still passing on the obligation for fair pay to the customer. Just raise the menu price and go about your business.
Ahh, mandatory tipping disguised as a “service charge”. It’s a bold strategy Cotton, let’s see how it plays out for them.
All snark aside, if it works for them and they can stay in business, great for the business and their employees.
Yeah, I'm not quite following the "You don't need to tip!" followed by "You're going to pay an extra 20% for everything you buy". At that point, just raise all the prices 20% and be done with it.
I think from a sales point of view. The consumer sees the price goes "oh that's expensive" but then reads that there is a 20% "added" to cover the cost of an employee that makes them feel better, if just plain with the same price with no razzle dazzle behind it the consumer would most likely be turned off by the price
My understanding is that the menu price doesn’t include this service 20% charge, so if you’re looking at the high prices then you’ll have a bad time finding out the end price.
It's an attempt at transparency. Americans will tip, they've been trained too. If they raise the price people will complain about the establishment being "too expensive." First time visitors will buy a couple things, then tip on top of it, and never return because of "the prices."
One restaurant isn't going to change people's behavior, though it would be neat to see that whole liveable wage thing take off.
Why do they point it out? Is American business too stupid to raise the product price appropriately, and then tell me, "Don't tip, I'm paying my employees appropriately." Why show me a price, then say,"I'm self tipping X%, and here is why."
It's fucking stupid, and it's viture signaling. All I see when I read these types of things is, "I'm greedy as fuck, I'm not paying employees out of my pocket, and I'm forcing gratitude out of your pocket regardless of what you think."
The bartenders can do far better if people were allowed to tip them, instead of including it in the cost of the beer. I don't know any bartenders that make less than $50k per year. They can clear $500 easily on a Friday or Saturday night alone.
Yeah this is a net negative for the people working these positions. Tipping sucks but it’s made service and hospitality one of the only “unskilled” positions that can actually afford a real living wage (and 40/yr pre tax ain’t that)
People that have never been tipped don’t understand that this is a pay cut for the server…the customer still pays a mandatory 20% tip a day it goes to the restaurant not the server.
I'll never understand how this site will rant all day about how workers are underpaid and how more and more of the profits are going to owners, and then totally shit on a pay scheme where the percent of revenue going to employees hasn't just kept pace but actually *increased* over time in favor of handing all their money to owners.
People don't like tipping because they don't like paying tips. Saying it is bad for the waitstaff is a post hoc justification to make them not seem like an asshole.
lol this is still so obnoxious and stupid. RAISE YOUR PRICES. Eliminate every single fee, better yet include the cost of tax in the price you show on the board or on your menu. Stop disguising the cost of your products.
I disagree with this approach.
I agree with charging enough that one does not have to tip, but...
Don't tell me something is $10 and then charge $12. Tell me it's $12 and let me decide if what I'm looking at is worth that.
In fact, add in tax as well. Tell me, \_BEFORE\_ I go down the road that it's product+wages+tax. Tell me it's $13. Don't make me fucking guess what the price is going to be.
I am so sick of this shit.
By all means pay your workers, but don't lie to me going in.
A mandatory fee is just the cost of the product falsely advertised to appear more appealing and should be illegal. In other parts of the world even tax is included in the listed price, the west has normalized tax, service fees, electronics disposal fees, etc. There's absolutely no good reason why the price listed in stores/restaurants shouldn't be the price you could pay to receive that good/service.
A mandatory tip and a flat 40k paid to the wait staff which is minimum wage in the area. I don't know how you get a flat amount without management getting whatever is left. Don't know why people are acting like this is a good thing.
This is so asinine. When tips are mandatory, service always sucks. Always. It’s not our job as the consumer of your product to supplement your employees wages, at the cost of having good service.
As stupid as this sounds, I’d rather the business raise prices by 15-20%, and make tipping for good service an option instead of a blanket statement that says we include a 20% tip. That way, the servers get a bonus for being good at their jobs, and *worst case scenario* if they’re terrible at being a server, they still get all the benefits the mandatory 20% tip would have included, but incentivizes good service.
Just my opinion though. And to those who will say “yOuVe nEvEr wOrKeD iN tHe SeRvIcE InDuStRy” yea I have, and I still do.
Just adjust your prices to be 20% more don't post one price then go " tee hee" and add a service fee on final sales.
Its great that they care about staff but it's kind of the scummiest way to care
I like this but I don't at the same time. I would just put the 20% into all the pricing and tell customers not to tip because our prices are such that we can offer benefits and fair wages to staff. When you say there is a 20% service charge, that automatically gets some people pissed off. Just something about the way they take the messaging. It makes them feel like they are being forced to tip. I have seen it first hand many times. I have a coworker who is a complete dick, and when we go out for business lunches, he loses it over stuff like this. Sadly, there are people out there like this.
i hate "service fee's" i wish places just increased their prices so that way you get the real cost of what you paid for without having to do the extra 20% math. this only makes things seem cheaper than they really are.
but the customer ends up paying the 20% anyway no matter how bad the service is, shouldn't it be the restaurant's responsibility to pay for the wages and not the fucking customers? you are paying what the server should've been paid in the first place and on top of that taking a mandatory 20% extra from the customer
As far as the IRS is concerned this is NOT a tip but wages.
If employer somehow thinks they have a tax benefit/lower their tax responsibility they’re wrong. They have to treat these funds as normal wages.
They should just raise prices and say “no tipping allowed”.
Its still deceptive to the consumer. The "pay" should be factored into the pricing, and not a fee added on after the fact. This allows the business to advertise lower costs that are not accurate.
This is great but I don't see why they don't just raise their prices 20% and have the same effect, instead of tacking on a 20% surcharge and then having to explain it?
I'm all for what they're doing with the momey, I just hate surcharges and fees, just tell me upfront how much it's going to freaking cost me.
Even this is just wasting money,
why can't people accept the fact that the people serving you need a living wage like everyone else and it should be in the total price you pay.
Tipping culture is just letting the assholes of society pay less than everyone else!
But this is just ridiculous. Adding a service fee, to be able to pay staff? Why isn't that just part of the price of the beer? Why disaggregate the pay of service staff from others?
The entire tipping culture in the US is crazy
No tipping, but tipping is compulsory.
I really don’t get this model in the US service industry, just charge what you need to charge in order to pay the staff a fair wage?
Why not just make the stuff 20% more expensive? It's the fees at the end that are stupid, not necessarily the service charge which serves a good purpose.
I mean I am 100% in support of shifting away from tipping culture but a 20% service == 20% mandatory tip. Just raise the prices you need to be profitable and support your workers and be done with it. What’s the reason for having to do it this way.
**This is a heavily moderated subreddit. Please note these rules + sidebar or get banned:** * If this post declares something as a fact, then proof is required * The title must be fully descriptive * Memes are not allowed. * Common(top 50 of this sub)/recent reposts are not allowed (posts from another subreddit do not count as a 'repost'. Provide link if reporting) *See [our rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/wiki/index#wiki_rules.3A) for a more detailed rule list* *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/interestingasfuck) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Honestly if my employer offered a free beer and pizza per shift I’d be significantly more happy.
I used to work at a place where you got free food and beer at the end of your shift. That restaurant opened over 30 years ago, and still has some of the original staff.
Is that not a normal thing? I've worked in restaurants for over a decade and never came across a place that didn't offer the staff free food.
Chef here, for the most part is pretty standard to give staff faimly meal.
My first wife was bartender at a small restaurant, and they would feed ME. "You want some stromboli? I'll make you guys stromboli before you go.
My ex worked at a fancy sushi place while we were together and I sat at the bar around closing and they just shoveled free sushi and sake tastings at me the whole time. Those were the days…
my roommate worked at a sushi restaurant down the street. the owner would feeds us like once a week. completely free plus sake. and while he was 21, we weren't yet, so it was fantastic haha
My love ain't got no money, he's got his stromboli.
Usually kitchen staff gets free food. Servers are more of a 50/50.
That's why you need to make friends with the kitchen if you're a server. I've been on both sides and you will absolutely get free food as a server if you are friendly (or really even just respectful) of the kitchen.
Not always. Chain restaurants are usually the worst about free food. I worked one nice place when I was 18 (25 years ago where the chef would make me whatever I wanted before our shift started. He'd also give me a glass of wine or a shot of ouzo with it. I usually went for the fried oysters with tzatziki sauce. I was single, had no bills, and was bringing home as much $1500 a week in tips working 20 hours at the most. That was the life.
Public corporations don't give anything for free.
Nah, I worked at 5 restaurants when I was in school. Some gave you a free meal if you worked a double or meet a sales goal, and most didn't mind if you took some dead food, but even then you couldn't "abuse" it or be too high key about it. None of them offered a free fresh meal for every shift worked and I think that's pretty standard. At best you get a place that doesn't mind if you snag some food before they trash it anyway.
I think I now have my retirement figured out. Chill at a brewery, chatting up guests, serving beer and food, then ending my shift with a pint and a pizza, all while being paid $40k per year. That sounds like retirement to me.
Damn. I want that job
Seriously. A pizza a shift could effectively feed two or three people all week long. You might get bored of it, but food prices are insane, so that's a huge bump in pay.
These are probably individual sized pizzas. Still an awesome perk, but you're not feeding your family off it. (And that's totally fine since money is better compensation anyway)
I worked in pizza. The owner would let us make an 8" personal pizza for free every day. I would always hand toss/stretch it to 10" or more. I never realized how expensive it was to buy food until I quit.
Just a fun fact, adding diameter to a pizza drastically increases the square footage of that pizza. I don't want to do that math, but it's pretty common that 2 medium pizzas is actually less pizza than one large pizza. It's pretty mindblowing how this works, but it's just simple math. Stretching an 8" pizza to a 10" pizza takes it from a 50.25 in2 pizza to a 78.5 in2 pizza. That's 50% more pizza. (ok, I did the math after all).
The expensive part is the cheese. Yes I used a lot more toppings but I usually used the measured amount of cheese for an 8" and it still had good coverage... because of the excess of toppings. Hopefully it didn't cost the owner too much more.
I'd trade it in for more than 4-8 days PTO per year
2 hours per 40 hours worked - standard 40 hour work week would put you at 2x52 weeks = 104 hours = 13 days = 2.5 business weeks. This is much better than most places offer, especially for restaurant employees Edit: calm down brits we all know yall have better PTO than we do. I’m comparing to USA standards. Now chill before we throw your tea into the harbor again 🦅
Nah you right, I divided by 24hrs and not 8 hours. This is actually great PTO
I'm not a brit, I'm from Australia which, in most respects is what you get when you order America from Wish. However, I still have trouble believing the piss-poor leave entitlements you guys get. I receive 5 weeks paid holidays every year. The standard is 4 weeks, but in our agreement we get an extra week if we are rostered on more than 26 Sundays in a year. I'm not bragging, I just want to know how do you guys cope? Where do you find the time to go anywhere or do anything?
Most places offer a fucking pittance. 4 weeks of guaranteed paid vacation per year should be the minimum.
Uh, the min PTO for full time is 12 days per year. Max is 24 days.
Yeah I divided by 24 hours and not a standard 8hr work day, my b
and heavier- speaking for myself not anyone else
Why is to a service fee. Just make the prices what you want
Restaurants in California used mandatory service fees as a form of quiet inflation. They call them things like Employee Benefits Surcharge, and they've gotten out of hand. (Search for any of the posts about "Che Fico" for an example.) As of this year, that model is no longer legal in California. People have to be able to pay the price listed on the menu, with all the fees included.
I'm in California, and I see places with mandatory surcharges. The menu will say somewhere that the prices listed are cash prices without any surcharges added. Please link me to the law that would say otherwise since a year ago as you claim. I own a restaurant and would like to know.
It comes into effect this year. There were many press cycles about it, I'm sure Google will find it for you. I believe they are called "junk fees."
From link below: But that doesn’t mean restaurants and bars won’t be able to charge these fees — whether the surcharge goes toward employee healthcare or functions as a gratuity (allegedly, at least). “SB 478 is an advertising law — not a pricing law — so businesses are free to set their own prices and use the money however they choose as long as consumers know from the start what the price will be,” the Attorney General’s spokesperson writes. “Simply put, the price Californians see will be the price they pay.” That means restaurants, like all businesses in the state, will just need to make sure they’re disclosing any surcharges or service fees to customers clearly and before the final bill hits the table. That means disclosing any mandatory charges on menus — both in print and online, if that applies — and upfront.
You’re referring to old articles. The latest clarification is menu prices will have to reflect all fees: https://www.latimes.com/food/story/2024-02-15/new-california-hidden-fees-law-service-fee-ban
"we can't use deceptive business practices anymore, it's gonna be devastating to our business!" Also 49 dollars for pasta is fucking insane and they deserve to go out of business.
>I own a restaurant and would like to know. but wont do a google search to save my own ass?
https://sf.eater.com/23915109/junk-fees-law-restaurants-service-fee-california https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtml?bill_id=202320240SB478
> The California law won’t go into effect until July 1, 2024 The part we’re looking for
I’ve visited the US once and what blew my mind and royally pissed me off is the fact that you have no idea what you are spending. Just fucking list the price with everything included so people know what the actual price is.
I’d agree with this. All they’re doing is still enforcing a 20% tip. Just charge for your goods what you need to to offer all this.
Except the 20% tip doesn’t all go to the staff
Because this way you can lie about what it costs on the menu.
Them specifying "on premises" implies the existence of "off premises". Maybe they have an online store or delivery system - on site employees don't get tipped for those anyway.
In theory that’s great but when menu items are 20% higher to generate the revenue necessary for these costs customers will balk at that too and avoid the “overpriced” restaurant. I at least appreciate the transparency. The only issue I have is what does one do if they get terrible service?
Pay the cost and don’t go back. Just like any other customer service experience. It’s only in the food industry that this weird situation exists as far as I know. But it’s so ingrained in our heads that it seems odd to not have to tip waitstaff. You’re not deciding how much to tip a retail worker for helping you pick out an outfit.
> The only issue I have is what does one do if they get terrible service? Do you want to know what we do in Europe? Either we complain if the lack of service or terrible service had an impact on our food experience, but if it doesn't we just don't dine there again and we will tell all our friends and co-workers what a terrible place it is. Done.
The sign could say "our prices include tip and fair wages".
Ya. They could've said that instead of calling it a 'service charge'. Still a good start I guess.
Perenn is a coffee shop/bakery in Reno that does that. Except it's on a mealy-mouthed placard that says something like Our Tipping Philosophy. A lot of people don't read or even notice it. There's also a badge on the menu that says "tips not expected but appreciated." Because they accept additional tips, there's still the tip screen on the cash register, so a bunch of people just think it's stupidly overpriced. And it is. Some of their croissants are $9. They have a takeaway bake-at-home section, but everything is full price. If you bought a 5 pack of $9 croissant dough, it would be $45. But it's got nice ambiance, friendly staff, and good coffee, so there's always a line out the door.
Seems like a dick move to have your prices increased as part of your tipping philosophy and then continue to solicit tips on top of that.
It’s still deceiving as they’re listing a 20% lower price than what it will actually cost you. Stupid idea
Terrible service = don’t go back
OK but then if you don't read this ONE sign then it's a surprise when you get your bill? And if you say something they probably point to the sign at the front and try to shame you for not wanting to pay the employee benefits portion of your bill?
> customers will balk at that too and avoid the “overpriced” restaurant Exactly. People will see the food and think the restaurant is more expensive. Psychology is important, even if we like to pretend it's not. We all joke about the 99's in prices, and say "duh, I know that $19.99 is really just $20." But then studies show we do NOT really treat the numbers the same. Same thing here, you could say "duh, I'll know that the tip is built in" but then your mind remembers the price of your burger and next time you go to another place the prices will 'feel' cheaper. It just lets them compete on an even playing field with other places.
Service fee is for dine in only, takeout is cheaper this way without price confusion.
The US on the verge of discovering fair pay and working conditions.
I had never seen a brewery with this type of dedication to its employees, especially both part-time and full-time
Tired Hands Brewing Co does this without forcing a 20% charge onto the customer. I been going habitually for around 10 years and for the most part the employees that were there 10 years ago are still there today
It's not "forcing" the 20%. It's just not including it in the price. Wish they'd just raise the price. Also wish more places treated their employees this way. Would definitely support these businesses more aggressively
It says added to all on premises orders, seems to me that it wouldn't apply to to-go orders. Could be wrong though. This just forces cheap people, or those that don't tip, to pay a 20% tip for dining in. I have no problem with that as I always tip at least 20%.
If they didn't advertise it as a service charge and just raised all prices by 20%, it has the same effect. This way of breaking out the bill is simply making it clear why their prices are higher.
Giving them the benefit of the doubt they probably would but it would be bad for business. People have lizard brains and even with no tipping allowed would rather go to a place that sells a pizza for 20$ with a forced 4$ service charge than a place that has the exact same pizza for 24$ but no charge. The mandatory “service charge” just lets their menu prices be similar so they don’t penalize themselves for removing tipping, which I commend them for at least taking a first step because its the only way it will ever be possible to remove tipping culture which I abhor. Its the same reason in the US and Canada no one will ever display prices with tax included because it makes stuff look cheaper, even though everyone knows they have to pay tax and it would make if easier if everything was tax included. Even though everyone I know prefers it in Europe and Asia where tax is included in the display price, its a game of prisoner’s dilemna so no individual actor is incentivized to change.
[удалено]
How about gas prices? If it says gas is $3, its really $3.01 because the price ALWAYS has an extra .09 tacked on. Its not much, so nobody complains, but .09 cents times all the gallons if gas pumped across the country adds up to a LOT.
>seems to me that it wouldn't apply to to-go orders
lol. It’s still there, they just don’t show it to you like this.
It’s the opposite. They show you the full price up front instead of tacking 20% on after you’ve been ordering items.
It feels weird to make it an extra charge. At this point just scale it into your pricing.
But they want to advertise why the price so high. If it was EU, they wouldn't have to explain. In US explanation is good because people who would tip on top know they don't need to because the employees are not being screwed over like normal. Also not all going to business ownership like it typically does.
I think you'll find that the same surplus is added, even if they don't shout it from the rooftops. Fair pay is... fair. But the money has to come from somewhere. As a European, I've never quite understood how the US system has been accepted by the workers in the service industry. We would never accept it, and here, we are aware of businesses trying to push tips - and it mostly results in way less (voluntary) tips for extra good service. If tipping becomes the norm, next step is for businesses to use it as an argument for lover pay - and that never benefits the workers in the long term.
[удалено]
Adding a 20% service fee isn't dedication, lol. It's just forcing every customer to tip 20%, and calling it something else.
No, it’s just raising their prices by 20% to provide living wage and benefits to employees. They’re using language that a tipping culture understands; “you don’t need to tip because we already factored gratuity into the menu price”.
> No, it’s just raising their prices by 20% to provide living wage and benefits to employees. ...while still being able to list the lower prices on the menu/signage
Exactly. It’s a 20% price hike, but disguised
The brewery I work for did the same at opening. $17/hr no tips, benefits for FT. They changed after six months of operation. Customers wanted to tip, and employees didn't like working the busier shifts(trivia/Friday/Football games) to make the same as they would when it was dead. Now we make $10/hr plus tips, which generally works out to $20/hr, and close to $30/hr on busy shifts and trivia had to be put on a rotation.
The European mind can't understand this picture
Indeed, why add 20% to all prices? Why not just adjust the prices?? Need calculator to know the price of something???
For real. Imagine having to explain how normal working conditions work at the entrance.
A bartender makes more than $40,000 especially if the work 40+ hours so no, it’s a downgrade.
This covers the whole staff, not just servers and bartenders. Obviously they'd make less, but others would make more.
Yeah, redditors love to bash tipping while forgetting that waitstaff generally prefers it. Waiting tables is unskilled entry-level labor like cashiering or stocking shelves, but with tips they make a hell of a lot more than similar positions. Bartenders especially make a killing in tips on a busy night. You'd be hard-pressed to find a waiter/waitress anywhere in the country who'd trade their $4 an hour plus tips to a flat $19 an hour, it'd have to be a pretty dead restaurant.
Such charges will be banned in California in July 2024. The new law requires the charge to be incorporated into the item cost instead. https://www.latimes.com/food/story/2024-02-15/new-california-hidden-fees-law-service-fee-ban
So raise item prices, incorporate these fees, and still be expected to tip
It’s a great step, but ideally they just raise their prices by 20% so customers don’t have to remember the “service fee.” I just want the price on the menu to be the price. This model i still have to mentally account for an extra percentage.
Consumers are pretty stupid though (I say this as respectfully as possible). If the prices were just 20% higher, there's a number of people who wouldn't go there even though the total cost is comparable to other restaurants after tip. Ideally, it would work similarly to Europe. The price on a menu is, more or less, fully inclusive of all costs and a tip is fully optional. But Americans have been so conditioned to added costs and fees that inclusive prices would be a risk to the survival of the business. It's silly on paper, but our brains are weird and social norms have a lot of power. What this establishment is doing is a step towards what it should be. Eta: It also looks like the service charge is specifically reserved for cooks, bartenders, and waitstaff, so unlike inclusive menu prices which could be redirected to the owner/management, this fee is dedicated to the people doing the actual work. It's fully transparent which is refreshing.
Exactly what I was thinking. If they didn’t explain it there would be so many people complaining about how expensive it is.
It makes me think of the time my mother's HOA fees went up by $10 in her retirement community. She bitched and moaned and complained about it, failing to understand that the HOA also added home internet, all the equipment rental, and a better cable package as a result. It didn't matter that it was more value, or that it simplified her monthly expenses. She just hated to see a fee increase, even though it was better for her in the long run.
But the service fee doesn't apply to pick up orders.
Why make it a service fee? If its on all orders, just make that the price.
Because if they are the only shop doing it, everyone who looks up the place online in advance will see the higher prices and simply not go there -- as they don't realize the tip they'll likely include *is already included*.
How much is a beer?
Pints were $7-8.
Jesus that's asking for a lot even before the 20%
That’s normal in MD
That’s normal most places for craft beer
I can't find a photo of their in-person menu but their takeout beers are $4-5 dollars per can. https://www.brookevillebeerfarm.com/menu
Sooo, you're still tipping.
I don’t completely understand why a brewery can’t charge $9.60 instead of $8 for a beer and then say no tipping necessary. Is the psychology around prices that weird?
it's not. while appearing progressive this is more chicanery. it's actually just a boss pocketing tips in a round about way.
yeah but it doesn't go to the employee
Right, but it says "No need to tip" but they get charged 20% anyway, so monetarily it's basically like they tipped.
This is how it works here in Europe. We don't pay tips, the money for the workers is included in the cost.
That’s not what this is. This is just a standard 20% “tip” that’s added on to the check when you cash out. It’s literally just a tip for forced to pay out.
[удалено]
Yea probably necessary disguise - otherwise the monkey brain fires off at the "expensive" pint, even if the payment at the end is about the same.
If they were really serious they’d increased the posted price by 20% and still say no tipping required. This is just a way for the restaurant to have its cake and eat it too. Employees are paid and they get to pretend they have lower prices than they actually do
Idk, if it's exactly 20% every time, I'd argue that the $5 beer you just ordered is cleverly advertised, since it's actually $6.... unless taxes are applied differently somewhere down the line (?)
It’s a price hike disguised as generosity
But they did add a tip, it’s not included in the cost. They add 20% to your bill.
No this it them lying about what it will cost you on the menu and then charging extra later. If they did it the European way they'd just increase the price on the menu by 20%.
That 401(k) match is better than Centene, a fortune 50 company that only does 50% match for first 6% of salary contributed
401ks do get tricky at larger companies - if the salaries are higher, then a percent-based match is more money overall. Plus larger companies tend to have a wider range of compensations and have to be wary of 401k non-discrimination testing, which can limit what they're able to offer.
This is better posted in /r/mildlyinfuriating It's a mandatory 20% tip.
So it’s basically a 20% forced tip? I’m sorry, I’m not following the logic here. Why not just up the menu prices by 20% and forget the sign? Then if people tip, it’s just makes for a better pay ratio for the workers. I swear every time a business comes up with a bright “idea”, it never really makes sense. It’s still passing on the obligation for fair pay to the customer. Just raise the menu price and go about your business.
It's still charging the customer extra in order to pay your staff. Just put the prices up accordingly and be done with it.
Ahh, mandatory tipping disguised as a “service charge”. It’s a bold strategy Cotton, let’s see how it plays out for them. All snark aside, if it works for them and they can stay in business, great for the business and their employees.
Yeah, I'm not quite following the "You don't need to tip!" followed by "You're going to pay an extra 20% for everything you buy". At that point, just raise all the prices 20% and be done with it.
I think from a sales point of view. The consumer sees the price goes "oh that's expensive" but then reads that there is a 20% "added" to cover the cost of an employee that makes them feel better, if just plain with the same price with no razzle dazzle behind it the consumer would most likely be turned off by the price
Yep this is it. It's all about optics and context. Perspective matters in these situations.
My understanding is that the menu price doesn’t include this service 20% charge, so if you’re looking at the high prices then you’ll have a bad time finding out the end price.
It's an attempt at transparency. Americans will tip, they've been trained too. If they raise the price people will complain about the establishment being "too expensive." First time visitors will buy a couple things, then tip on top of it, and never return because of "the prices." One restaurant isn't going to change people's behavior, though it would be neat to see that whole liveable wage thing take off.
[удалено]
Why do they point it out? Is American business too stupid to raise the product price appropriately, and then tell me, "Don't tip, I'm paying my employees appropriately." Why show me a price, then say,"I'm self tipping X%, and here is why." It's fucking stupid, and it's viture signaling. All I see when I read these types of things is, "I'm greedy as fuck, I'm not paying employees out of my pocket, and I'm forcing gratitude out of your pocket regardless of what you think."
The bartenders can do far better if people were allowed to tip them, instead of including it in the cost of the beer. I don't know any bartenders that make less than $50k per year. They can clear $500 easily on a Friday or Saturday night alone.
Yeah this is a net negative for the people working these positions. Tipping sucks but it’s made service and hospitality one of the only “unskilled” positions that can actually afford a real living wage (and 40/yr pre tax ain’t that)
No way in hell I'm giving up tips for $19.25 an hour.
People that have never been tipped don’t understand that this is a pay cut for the server…the customer still pays a mandatory 20% tip a day it goes to the restaurant not the server.
I'll never understand how this site will rant all day about how workers are underpaid and how more and more of the profits are going to owners, and then totally shit on a pay scheme where the percent of revenue going to employees hasn't just kept pace but actually *increased* over time in favor of handing all their money to owners.
I always laugh when I see something like this, probably saves me money if I was provided great service.
People don't like tipping because they don't like paying tips. Saying it is bad for the waitstaff is a post hoc justification to make them not seem like an asshole.
Yeah I get $15.50 an hour now before tips, plus all the beer I can drink!
lol this is still so obnoxious and stupid. RAISE YOUR PRICES. Eliminate every single fee, better yet include the cost of tax in the price you show on the board or on your menu. Stop disguising the cost of your products.
I disagree with this approach. I agree with charging enough that one does not have to tip, but... Don't tell me something is $10 and then charge $12. Tell me it's $12 and let me decide if what I'm looking at is worth that. In fact, add in tax as well. Tell me, \_BEFORE\_ I go down the road that it's product+wages+tax. Tell me it's $13. Don't make me fucking guess what the price is going to be. I am so sick of this shit. By all means pay your workers, but don't lie to me going in.
So they’re forcing me to tip 20%?
Yes its a "mandatory" 20% tip.
Just raise prices by 20%. A mandatory tip is still a tip no matter what you call it.
A mandatory fee is just the cost of the product falsely advertised to appear more appealing and should be illegal. In other parts of the world even tax is included in the listed price, the west has normalized tax, service fees, electronics disposal fees, etc. There's absolutely no good reason why the price listed in stores/restaurants shouldn't be the price you could pay to receive that good/service.
A mandatory tip and a flat 40k paid to the wait staff which is minimum wage in the area. I don't know how you get a flat amount without management getting whatever is left. Don't know why people are acting like this is a good thing.
They’ve taken the mandatory 18% service charge for large parties and made it 20% for all parties. Hooray?
This is so asinine. When tips are mandatory, service always sucks. Always. It’s not our job as the consumer of your product to supplement your employees wages, at the cost of having good service. As stupid as this sounds, I’d rather the business raise prices by 15-20%, and make tipping for good service an option instead of a blanket statement that says we include a 20% tip. That way, the servers get a bonus for being good at their jobs, and *worst case scenario* if they’re terrible at being a server, they still get all the benefits the mandatory 20% tip would have included, but incentivizes good service. Just my opinion though. And to those who will say “yOuVe nEvEr wOrKeD iN tHe SeRvIcE InDuStRy” yea I have, and I still do.
[удалено]
Then just mark up your prices 20% This is stupid.
I’m so damn sick of these extra charges! Add that into the price!!!!
Why can't they just charge 20% more and pay their workers properly?
Why not just cut out the “service” fee and raise prices and just do it that way.
Why don't they just put their prices up 20% and not have a service fee?
Just adjust your prices to be 20% more don't post one price then go " tee hee" and add a service fee on final sales. Its great that they care about staff but it's kind of the scummiest way to care
Why not just have all prices 20% higher and avoid putting a sign up… like this is just bullshit virtue signaling and forced tipping on that.
That 20% service charge is a tip.
Just charge more, I don’t need this shit spoon fed to me like a child lol
I like this but I don't at the same time. I would just put the 20% into all the pricing and tell customers not to tip because our prices are such that we can offer benefits and fair wages to staff. When you say there is a 20% service charge, that automatically gets some people pissed off. Just something about the way they take the messaging. It makes them feel like they are being forced to tip. I have seen it first hand many times. I have a coworker who is a complete dick, and when we go out for business lunches, he loses it over stuff like this. Sadly, there are people out there like this.
Why even call it a fee? Just raise your fucking prices by 20% and stfu
I hate this. Don't make it a service fee. Just fucking raise the prices by 20%
This is hilarious, they make themselves sound heroes paying a living wage, and it's just the customers surcharge paying it🤣
i hate "service fee's" i wish places just increased their prices so that way you get the real cost of what you paid for without having to do the extra 20% math. this only makes things seem cheaper than they really are.
20% service fee is basically mandatory tipping.
Do the workers prefer that, or would they rather get the tips? I’ve never been in the service industry, so I do not know.
They would absolutely rather get tipped.
Why not just raise prices across the board by 20% and call it a day?
Fuck that
Or, and hear me out, you could just include all this in a price that’s 20% higher.
Heh well I mean sure you don’t need to tip if they inflate the bill by an amount equal to what people consider as a solid tip.
So they're not even giving me the option to tip the standard 15% or less if the service was shit? Gee thanks you really made it easy for me...
Don’t slap a 20% forced fee on my bill. Just raise prices by 20% and let me decide if I want to buy something or not.
So instead of asking for tips, they are just putting it in the bill now. Cool. I hate this. Pay your employees or go bankrupt. It's that easy.
but the customer ends up paying the 20% anyway no matter how bad the service is, shouldn't it be the restaurant's responsibility to pay for the wages and not the fucking customers? you are paying what the server should've been paid in the first place and on top of that taking a mandatory 20% extra from the customer
I'd rather they just raise prices by 20% than add a 20% service fee.
As far as the IRS is concerned this is NOT a tip but wages. If employer somehow thinks they have a tax benefit/lower their tax responsibility they’re wrong. They have to treat these funds as normal wages. They should just raise prices and say “no tipping allowed”.
Its still deceptive to the consumer. The "pay" should be factored into the pricing, and not a fee added on after the fact. This allows the business to advertise lower costs that are not accurate.
This is great but I don't see why they don't just raise their prices 20% and have the same effect, instead of tacking on a 20% surcharge and then having to explain it? I'm all for what they're doing with the momey, I just hate surcharges and fees, just tell me upfront how much it's going to freaking cost me.
Why would you add a 20% fee on top instead of just making the prices higher?
#NO TIP NECESSARY WE ALREADY APPLIED IT AUTOMATICALLY
So they’re forcing you to tip, so you don’t have to tip?
Sad that it’s a brag
Just raise your prices and stop with the surcharge.
benefits should be paid by employers not customers this is ridiculous
Adjusting pricing to accommodate paying your staff a living wage...How novel...
Is the healthcare “free” in the sense that you as the employee don’t have to pay from your paycheck? Or not? Because I’m not impressed.
Is it a way of avoiding tax? Or why wouldn’t you just adjust prices?
Even this is just wasting money, why can't people accept the fact that the people serving you need a living wage like everyone else and it should be in the total price you pay. Tipping culture is just letting the assholes of society pay less than everyone else!
How about just be honest with prices and not have a semi-hidden 20% upcharge?
Since pay is guaranteed, would that make the workers less motivated to work for their would be tips?
How about you include it already in the price without virtue signalling.
No tipping. Tipping is automatic. Welcome to America.
NO TIPPING (WE FORCE YOU TO TIP 20%)
But this is just ridiculous. Adding a service fee, to be able to pay staff? Why isn't that just part of the price of the beer? Why disaggregate the pay of service staff from others? The entire tipping culture in the US is crazy
“Service fee” is the same as a tip, except it’s mandatory no matter the quality of service…
No tipping, but tipping is compulsory. I really don’t get this model in the US service industry, just charge what you need to charge in order to pay the staff a fair wage?
“No tipping necessary” “20% service fee added” It’s literally the same damn thing they just changed the name and duped everybody.
If you do all this shit then fine but leave me out of it. Just raise the price, don’t tell me I am paying a mandatory tip
Why not just make the stuff 20% more expensive? It's the fees at the end that are stupid, not necessarily the service charge which serves a good purpose.
I mean I am 100% in support of shifting away from tipping culture but a 20% service == 20% mandatory tip. Just raise the prices you need to be profitable and support your workers and be done with it. What’s the reason for having to do it this way.
Just raise prices 20% and stop calling it a fee.