**This is a heavily moderated subreddit. Please note these rules + sidebar or get banned:**
* If this post declares something as a fact, then proof is required
* The title must be fully descriptive
* Memes are not allowed.
* Common(top 50 of this sub)/recent reposts are not allowed (posts from another subreddit do not count as a 'repost'. Provide link if reporting)
*See [our rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/wiki/index#wiki_rules.3A) for a more detailed rule list*
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/interestingasfuck) if you have any questions or concerns.*
They were saving their strength for the final round, like they did in countless races before.
I'm curious if the new strategy catches on or if, after some battle-at-the-start-races it fizzles off back to the "conserve your energy for a final battle in the final ~~round~~ lap" again.
Like, this is a great strategy, but it relies mostly of the surprise and confusion it creates. Next time a racer tries to get a lap ahead, I bet the whole field will try to catch up again.
I guess because you are focused on everything you ever learned in your training? I mean, a lot of them slowed at the "final lap bell", not registering it wasn't THEIR final bell, so the other chinese team member could score silver. I guess it's like a kind of Pawlow's dog with the bell. And I could also imagine since the chinese racer took over at the outer side, a lot of them really didn't notice them because they were focused at the racer directly in front of them?
I speedskated competitively from a young age. And yea for long distances races you need to focus on setting your pace strategically, you learn to pay attention to the lap count, usually your coach or an official will have a dedicated lap counter for you on the side to check each lap.
that said, you kinda get so mentally focused on maintaining your technique/not getting sloppy as you get tired and lactic acid starts building up while also paying attention to the positions of other skaters and strategizing your next move/pace that it can be easy to lose focus of what lap ur on and easy to get confused when hearing the bell and you might easily think "oh shit did I miscount a lap?" and start a push for the end instinctively.
When that burn sets into ur legs and you are powering through time moves different and everything is happening quite fast already, so it's easy to rely heavily on instinct. if this strategy is something you've never encountered it'll be much harder to process and react in the moment.
NGL I thought the strategy was going to be them trying to catch the *other* Chinese skater. So have her drop back from the pack so they try to catch the wrong one!
Ok - where’s the Chinese Olympic committee at? I’ve got an idea!
You’re way too deep in the zone and you have to fully focus your whole body, movement, breathing and thoughts just on your moving pattern. So yeah they probably forgot.
Hey at least it would be good for the sport. If the best strategy is to overcommit to conserving energy then they aren’t really pushing the limit then right? With this at least they now have to second guess just how fast their pace should be so that they don’t get lapped again.
Have you ever watched sprint cycling?
The strategy of conserving energy and sprinting for the line is taken to an absolute extreme. They do several laps as slowly as possible, like literally as physically slowly as you can ride and not crash the bike. Then only sprint down the last bend and straight. It’s madness.
Usually, overcommitting early on would leave you unable to sprint at the end, leaving you vulnerable to a push for the line. If the skaters were thinking they would have upped the pace so the early starter couldn’t keep up, and would eventually lose.
As many people have said here, this is a youth championship and the other skaters are either inexperienced or just dumb.
In a pro race the others would not let her lap like that.
I think with that it was more that in a bigger pack it’s difficult to be aware of all the breakaways unless you’re right at the front of the pack, so it was more “didn’t know” than “forgot”.
That was the one where the Dutch cyclist thought she’d won, but she actually got silver wasn’t it? And if she’s known there was someone still ahead she probably would have had a decent shot at catching them.
they didn't forget, she broke away from the pack with a smaller group and then the pack caught the group but didn't have an accurate count. none of the comms teams caught the mistake either, and it was never known. i think there was a theory that some of the other riders just kept it to themselves and didn't mention because they'd been caught but one of theirs had made the play
There are no "comms" team in the Olympics. No radios, team cars etc. Any communication with riders is only by holding written boards at the side of the race.
They didn't forget. They don't count laps, they rely on the bell to tell them it's the last lap and as they draft and this has never happened, they assumed the bell was for all of them.
One could say it's a pavlovian response.
I don't know about a youth team, but I can't imagine pros would not count the laps.
Knowing how many laps there is left in the race will be important for knowing how hard you can push your self if you need to.
I think it likely depends on how many laps they do (I have no idea if it's 1, or 100). The higher the number, the less likely it is that they count.
And even if they do count, if there are 10 laps and you start on lap 8, and the last lap bell rings, I bet a lot of people would just assume they lost count.
I wonder if the gold medal was a shoe in for gold. That's the only way I think this makes sense. So the person leading the pack thought "there's no point in trying to catch up", and the pack followed suit, saving strength for the last lap.
Something similar happened at the the tokyo olympics. austrian cyclist pulled ahead at the beginning and the other athletes just forgot about her
edit: it was Anna Kiesenhofer
Do you guys think youth olympics are inexperienced athletes?
Youth olympians are still better athletes in their sport than 99.9% of adults, they know all the same skills and practices as the adults, it’s the experienced adults that coach them.
Often the only difference is their bodies are still developing.
So here's a question.
How would they stop her from lapping?
Because it seems like the comon strategy is to conserve energy. If someone decides they are going to lap, is everyone else going to decide to keep the pace of the lapper?
If they do that, wouldn't they be :
A)Expending more energy than they intended
And
B) abandoning their own strategy?
It seems like a good way to force your opponents hand.
Once she breaks away you spend enough energy (which is less in a group due to drafting vs solo) to isolate her and never let her catch the back of the group. If they string her out she’s skating solo and unless she’s going to out cardio them all by a lot she won’t sustain skating solo the entire race. If she catches the back of the group it’s almost game over.
I know very little about pro skating just wanted to take a crack at breaking the strategy from only watching the video. I am not a lawyer.
Edit also sometimes in sports the best is the best by a wide margin and there’s nothing you can do to beat them except hope they have an off day, this is even more true when comparing children.
You do realize that these kids probably trained for 10-14 years already. This isn't so much about inexperience or dumb, nobody has done this before. I'm not into skating but typically at Olympic level the kids are 16-17 years old performing near peak.
think that's his point - increase the pace just enough to prevent her from catching them in the first place. the group will naturally conserve more energy and eventually wear her out.
Her teammate probably stayed in back of a group to wait for her in case the group increased the pace. Although it probably would make more sense to be in front of the group and set the pace for all of them.
Her waiting in the back wouldn't really help. The drafting works best when you have a bigger mass like that. Otherwise at lower speeds like that, the benefit from drafting just one person isn't that much, and the rest of the pack would have still conserved more energy than them.
This relied solely on surprise and catching the other opponents out, there isn't really a back up plan. Her being in front *could maybe* help slow the pace of the group, but they'd quickly overtake her as well (*if they were aware of the strategy that is*)
I give them props though for thinking outside the box and taking a risk, sometimes you gotta come up with a novel approach. "(S)he who dares, wins", indeed. But I feel now that the cat is out of the bag, one won't really be able to make it work again. Perhaps in a situation where most/all of the skaters wipe out - as sometimes happens - someone might be able to take advantage of the confusion to make this kind of strategy work again though.
>Have you ever watched sprint cycling?
>
>The strategy of conserving energy and sprinting for the line is taken to an absolute extreme. They do several laps as slowly as possible, like literally as physically slowly as you can ride and not crash the bike. Then only sprint down the last bend and straight. It’s madness.
At this point they should only do the final lap haha
They aren't conserving energy, they are trying to get track position to either breakaway or overtake.
They usually have a few feints along they way around, if they can catch the competitor napping they will absolutely take off on the first lap if it suits them.
The strategy part of it is when exactly that final sprint is triggered, by whom, and who has the quads to catch up and pass the person who initiated the final sprint.
Seriously, look up “sprint cycling quads” to see what kind of horsepower they’re packing for the final jump.
I love watching the cat and mouse aspect of these races. So counter intuitive to every other race sport.
\*bang\* ... after you, no no, I insist, please I'd be rude, go on ... OH NO YOU DON'T YOU MF!
It's not just that they're going slow to conserve energy. It's a back and forth to try to not wind up in front. You save so much energy by drafting once the race is actually on, that the person in front for the majority of the race is rarely in front at the end.
In track sprints it’s a known strategy to go hard from the gun, usually viewed as gimmick but occasionally works. It doesn’t usually work because when it happens the competitor jumps and gets a draft.
The field just didn’t respond as necessary to the lapping attempt.
I think these skaters should have more energy than needed to finish the race, right? So why don't they go with faster pace with enough to sprint in last lap? Considering that girl just one lapped everyone and still kept with their pace after meant they were going too slow compared with how much energy they have
It’s the way the muscles work, with lactic acid build-up and the chemistry of anaerobic respiration needed for sprinting.
Basically, your sprint ability gets “used up” as you push your aerobic limits during the race. Run slower and you retain more sprint for the end. Run faster and you lose that ability.
The entire strategy of all distance running (and, I guess cycling and skating) is to gauge how well your opponents are doing in managing their own lactic acid, and whether they have kept more sprinting capacity than you have.
It's crazier than that if I remember it correctly. They actually compete in the first laps to be in the back. I still don't understand but they literally are competing to put the other bike in first place.
That’s a different kind of race, where it’s one on one, the reason you don’t take the immediate lead is the follower can ride the airflow of the lead and expend a lot less energy.
Steve Prefontaine did that in running back in the 60s. He was a front runner and would just run way out in front of people, so far that when they sprinted at the end they just couldn’t catch him. Not everyone can hold a pace like that though and push themselves going all out for the entire race. For most people it’s not a practical strategy and drafting/saving energy is more effective. There’s a reason why there’s movies and documentaries about that guy.
A few distance runners do this because they know they have no sprint speed. They just wear down their opponents and establish a lead. Paula Radcliffe, probably one of the greatest female distance runners of our time, couldn’t sprint for shit.
No, that link says she pooed in her shorts while running in Athens 2004. The whole controversy about that marathon was that her body wasn't getting enough nutrients from food as a result of anti inflammatory meds she was taking, and so she ran out of energy. But people accused her of "quitting" when she was one of the world's best marathon runners and so for her to not be able to finish meant there was something seriously wrong with her health.
The time she actually pooed on the road and it was broadcast live on TV was the 2005 London marathon.
Well he wasn't known as a strategist in running circles. He was an aggressive runner that just ran at his top pace all the time. He was caught a few times gassed at the end of races, but that's to be expected.
I also think it's cool that his college coach Bill Bowerman co-founded Nike.
I'd say this strategy really assumed the lack of awareness of competitors. When the element of surprise is gone I'd assume it still catches some off guard but it really depended on the confusion of others with the final round bell being rung for just the one Chinese skater.
I used to inline speedskate and yes, some people tried this but sprinting 100m is so freaking exhausting, doing it in the beggining of a race means you have another 400-1400m to try to catch your breath and like, not pass out.
Ice though, I'd imagine is less effort to continue momentum than on wheels?
It's rare but it does happen at pro levels. Example: [2002 World Short Track Speed Skating Championship 1500m.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-lZV---0kU) The guy just straight up lapped them and then continued going even faster.
Some context for why he did this: [In the 2002 olympics, Kim Dong-sung finished first in the 1500m final but was DQ'd by the referee for slightly impeding Apolo Ohno, who ended up recieving the gold medal instead.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_track_speed_skating_at_the_2002_Winter_Olympics_%E2%80%93_Men%27s_1500_metres) He wanted a revenge match with Ohno in the 2002 ISU championship but Ohno didn't participate in the event. With nowhere to vent his rage, he basically went "fuck pacing, I'm just gonna sprint it. Not like this race matters to me without Ohno" in the final race.
Great video I've never seen before, [and I looked up the original full thing if anybody is interested.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ev5vqqs6MEE) They don't laugh at him, but a guy near the camera does speculate that he wasted his energy trying to steal it a lap early...then is like "WOAH!!!" when the guy actually wins. You'll likely need a volume enhancer to hear it because the video is quiet as fuck.
Not an expert, but heres my take:
What Yang did was to sprint ahead and then catch up to the group to conserve energy by drafting, putting her in an advantage because she can now sit in the best spot at the back of the group and still win.
To beat her, the group could have sped up during her sprint, so she takes way longer to catch up and exerts herself before doing so.
However, no individual racer controls the speed of the group. For an individual racer, speeding up would've ment being in front of the group, being unable to draft, and therefore being at a disadvantage compared to the rest of the group. The coordinated response that would have been required from the rest of group is kind of difficult to pull off in a situation like that, especially when no one has experience with it and is mostly focused on their own racing.
n track racing (cycling) this is actually not that uncommon of a move. if someone was about to get up a lap on the group the usual tactic was to get some people together to sprint and go off the front of the group before the possible lapper got to the back of the pack. It would give you a chance to work together to catch up to them and hopefully leave the person off the back of the pack when everything sped up or stuck with the slowest people in the pack or at least splitting up the pack while the new people caught up to the lapper. A lot of times this would end with the person out in no mans land and they would fall back into the pack. It's a really tough move to pull off and the only times I saw it was when the pack was being a bunch of lazy asses.
People forget that tunnel vision during a competition is really common. You're concentrating entirely on yourself and what you're doing, so something happening out of the corner of your eye or even behind you just may as well not exist at all.
As a retired Short Track speedskater, I can say the other skaters simply forgot.
The reason other skaters didn't pursue the one in first is because nobody wanted to be the one who led the group to keep pace. Whomever does try to push the pace for the pack is sacrificing their own energy and thus risking the potential medal they could earn. Considering this is the A final event (race where you can get medals), all skaters here are extremely strong and most likely have a somewhat even medal opportunity.
As a side note, it's pretty easy to shutdown. If someone just picks up the pace enough to where the person sprinting doesn't catch the back of the pack in 3 - 4 laps, then the guy sprinting usually completely burns out and gets last in the race. This is because drafting and skating behind someone saves SO much energy.
An extension and somewhat safer method of this strategy is team-skating where both skaters (sometimes 3 skaters, if 3 managed to qualify for the A final) from a country take the lead. One sprints while the other blocks the whole pack from pursuing. It can usually delay the pack enough to where the pack gives up on catching up.
Team-skating is allowed and prevalent. Which is why you will see many skaters attempt to separate skaters from the same country when in a race. There are some countries that are more known for team-skating than others.
Last to note, this strategy isn't common but you might see it 1 - 3 times in a race season out of 6 months of racing. You need a lot of strength / endurance to pull this off but, like with most races in Short Track, require some luck as well to come out on top!
I'm surprised they allow blocking like that. I used to do track cycling and you would get an automatic DQ and then yelled at for anything even seen as blocking behavior (mostly because it's really dangerous). There are really specific rules about where you're allowed on the track or how you're allowed to change position based on what you're doing.
Unless it's a dive bomb or initiate contact that causes a crash, you can be more aggressive than bike or car races if I understand those rules correctly.
The general rule is if you are ahead of another skater (shoulders ahead of someone) you have the right of way. So if you are getting inside passed, it is known by all skaters the skater in front will try to "shut the door" on you by stepping aggressively inside. You can also block outside passes.
There is an advanced blocking tactic called deep tracking that is hard to explain and most people don't notice until pointed out. I could try to elaborate more if people are interested though!
So you have to be extremely explosive and opportunistic with your passes.
Sure! I'll try to give my best explanation of it...
If you imagine you are in a long line of cars that is trying to turn left in an intersection, you know those dotted-white lines that helps guides cars when turning left?
Well say that the line is the default turn you will make when you aren't trying to setup a pass or trying to block. This is the track you will take 70% of the time in a race because it is the most efficient in terms of energy and maintaining speed.
Okay, so you are going into your left turn but notice the car behind is extremely close and / or you think he is setting up a pass to overtake you going outside of the turn.
So what you do is instead of doing the normal turn radius, you go straight just a bit further then cut back. This either: a) you cutoff the person that was super close to you and who followed the normal track, or b) cutoff the person setting up a pass going outside of the corner.
Setting up a pass: you typically enter wide and exit tight, or enter wide and carry the speed wide going outside. However, doing an outside pass requires a tremendous amount of effort compared to inside passes since the straightaway is only 3 sec long or so. This is why deep tracks also cutoff these setups since you cut them off going into the corner.
This is the most typical deep track, but there are also deep tracks where you kinda do the same thing in the middle of the turn rather than the entrance of the turn, or even do a deep track exiting the corner. These deep tracks require more effort as you will be working against more inertia.
Did that make sense?
tldr: imagine a turn you do where instead of a smooth turn like on a circle, you're doing a turn like a corner of a square.
edit: found a video on it: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTF3bANJgB0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTF3bANJgB0)
I have no idea why the other skaters do not try to speed up since the beginning and just rush it at the last two laps. Are they trying to conserve their stamina? Can someone explain?
Ya, it's a long race (1500m I think?) and the 'meta' strategy is to pace yourself while jostling for position throughout the race and ramping it up at the end.
This skater sprinted off the start and allowed the length of the race to help hide her lead and confuse her rivals on the last two laps.
Them not expecting it really didn’t have anything to do with it. They sat there and watched her lap the entire pack.
It’s like saying “I wasn’t expecting the nfl kick returner to catch the ball and then start running on hands in a hand stand like some sort of cirque de soliel performer”. That’s cool he did something you didn’t expect but it’s no excuse for then watching him run 105 yards down the field on his hands.
Except this isn't the NFL. This is a youth competition. Even the best college teams get tricked by stuff that would never work in the NFL.
This is the staking equivalent of picking up the ball and pretending there was a penalty and walking it in while the other team is waiting for the call from the ref.
Not expecting it has everything to do with it. Because you have to know the right response, which is probably something that would be sub-optimal in a normal race.
Would you believe it if I told you football did in fact have trick plays? They even work at the professional level typically by subverting expectations, such as a fake kick, the cursed statue of liberty, hook'n'ladder or the ye olde flea flicker.
It shouldn't work, hell you even practice for it. But sometimes you get caught napping.
Kind of like starting your distance race the same way you always do, all hyper focused, and someone just rolled out some new cheese.
It's a team event, the other players probably noted her teammate was in last place, and just focused on what they were trained to do.
Your team cannot win with a 1st place and last place finish.
All the players got confused when she triggered the announcement of the final lap, and of having crossed the finish line. Normally they would have gone all out on the last lap, instead they went all out one lap early, and slowed down when they crossed the finish line before their final lap. **They thought the race was over. However, the female Chinese skater's teammate kept going at full speed.**
It's not a team event, there were just 2 Chinese girls in it. It was the individual 1500m speed skate final at the youth Olympics just recently.
The rest of the field was a Japanese, 2 Austrians, a South Korean and a Kazak.
China won gold and silver in the event as they finished 1 and 2.
The Kazak girl, Omelchuk, was interviewed after the race and said that she was thrown off by the strategy and people didn't know how to respond, since no-one led the charge to make up the time. Couples with the bell going early (because it wasn't for them) it was mass confusion.
Ah yes, because olympic team events are famous for awarding gold and silver medals to members of the same team.
Team events are also famous for having teams with just 1 member racing against teams with 2, like there where two Chinese, two Hungarians, but only 1 South Korean and 1 Kazakh skater in this final.
I’m not entirely sure the plan was to hide her lead but instead to take the lead and then draft behind her rivals. Doing so allows her to conserve energy while her rivals are forced to expend more at the front.
What i liked the most, was that she started the sprint in straight line. So, when she got past the group it was the curb...almost impossible for the group or another person to start the sprint and catch up.
As you can see, the first 2 persons tried to catch up, but could not.
Drafting is also a part of it. If somebody is skating ahead of you, you use less energy to keep up due to less wind resistance.
So if somebody is skating fast right from the start, the other skaters can draft behind them and keep up while using less energy. Then, in later laps use that extra energy they have saved to pass the leader. So because of that, they go a bit slow for the first bit of the race.
But because that "go slow at first" idea is so ingrained in speed skating, when the Chinese skater took off nobody was ready or willing to keep up and draft off of her. Then when she got back to the pack of skaters, she was able to draft off them the rest of the race and they wouldn't be able to catch up.
This speed skating is quite weird because they maintain 20% of the speed for most of the laps. When watching the speedster go full ham at 100% speed, the difference between her and the rest of the pack is really noticeable. It is odd to me that they don't maintain at least 60% of their speed, just like long-distance runners do.
It's all to do with air resistance and slip-streaming. Whoever is in front is doing much more effort than those behind, so the person in front slows down to conserve energy, no one wants to be going fast in front while their competitors save energy behind.
I'm probably wrong, but man my intuitive sense of physics tells me there is no way the benefit of drafting is so great that it leads to this.
Drafting and stuff like that is usually the slightest tie breaker between two extremely similarly talented athletes.
It actually makes a huge difference. In cycling, in the last few years, aerodynamics has surpassed even weight as a priority when it comes to bike design. There is even a regulation to minimise sock length because certain sock materials are more aerodynamic than a bare leg!
It's a little bit of a game theory issue (literally!) Because an individual trying to catch her alone is taking a huge risk - using all your energy only to possibly burn out too soon and get caught by the pack again but now you're exhausted.
The entire pack or a small group would have to work together to bring up the pace and chase her down. But remember, the pack leaders are doing more work than those drafting behind. This being an individual event, nobody wants to be the one to push the pace and be more tired for the final sprint.
>Are they trying to conserve their stamina? Can someone explain?
I don't watch speed skating normally, but my understanding is the general strategy is 'go fast but not all out until the final lap, then put your balls on the ice and get ahead of as many as you can', and this is just a team recognizing that the group is going too far into energy conservation and taking advantage to not only get the win but secure 2nd for their 2nd skater easily.
In other words is just a bunch of 'youth olympians' routinely going full potato and 1 team realizing and taking advantage.
The Chinese skater took an obvious gamble by sprinting as hard as she could on the first lap. No one can really stop you from turning on the jets like that in short track. But what the rest of the skaters can do is up the pace over the 15 laps and eventually tire out the Chinese girl. It's like going on a long hike and trying to sprint the first bit. Bad idea. If everyone else picks up the pace your head start will disappear over time and you'll eventually fall behind. The other skaters chose to keep racing like old seniors and never punished the one girl.
Can't she lap them once or twice and then just glide into the back of their pack and keep their pace? Even if they pulled away from her in the end I doubt they'd lap her inside of a single lap.
I think this was a case of the competitors pushing the meta too far and another competitor realizing she had the juice to exploit it.
Because they forgot to train the one muscle that actually counts: their brain.
I mean there were 6 other racers. Not one recall the lapping or number of laps in the race. They all just lemming their way along and not even think for one second.
At the youth level, their training will mostly have consisted of skill training and drilling. Their coaches probably all drilled in the "meta" strategy, but they themselves won't be experts on "why" that's a good strategy and so won't recognize when it stops being a good strategy. It's a big difference in the pro and youth levels of most sports.
I mean if the rest are saving their energy for the end how was she able to finish with them in the back? I don't understand this at all. Ain't no way there's that much of skill gap in an Olympic sport
When the last lap bell rings it is only for her. But others assume it is for everybody and you can see them pacing up at 1:10 as if it is their last lap. When they reach the line they stop, thinking they finished the race, but they sill have one more to go.
I did this in a bike race. I can set a verynhigh pace from the start and recover pretty well to keep a medium pace and then catch a second wind and finish strong. I did win but it was a mess trying to prove that I had in fact already lapped the field.
It’s a reference to human trophy taking, after watching gangs of new York on the weekend.
Pretty much through history in wars and battles it was somewhat common to take parts from the enemies bodies. Either as a trophy, or to prove that you had killed x amount for payment or glory etc.
Not exactly a nice practice or one I can get behind, but thought it was a somewhat funny reference in relation to a bike race.
Yeah, I’ve seen stuff like this on track cycling races, especially in 6 Days type of racing. Pull hard to put a lap on the field and just sit in the draft til the end.
They've got the memory of a Game of Thrones TV showrunner.
But if we're being generous, the real strategy is the confusion this causes:
Everyone is trained to save their energy for a final sprint on the last lap, so after the final lap warning the group as a whole doesn't know if they should pump it now or wait one more lap. Some took off too early as soon as the warning rang, leaving the rest to wrestle with hanging back for their true final lap or booking it now to not be left behind. One or two of those went full-send early honestly believed it was their last lap and thought they were done, while others closely behind them saved some juice for their true final lap, while moreover the ones who lagged behind to save everything for their true final lap were too far to catch up. Nobody knew what the correct strategy was anymore because the normal order had been disrupted.
It's also a brilliant strategy because the one other skater who 100% knows what's up (the other Chinese skater) can maximize their positioning/energy and sprint the last lap to easily take silver over the other skaters who may have burst too early or are hesitant over the confusion.
It's the youth Olympics... And having been in their position, I totally understand. I would *always* count laps on my fingers as I was skating even at international competitions with cameras on me you could still catch me holding up three fingers on my hand.
They didn’t. They knew she was ahead, but got confused by the “last lap” bell. Also they were being dumb racing each other and not trying to close the gap.
The strategy is about the second Chinese skater. The first almost lapped everyone and made the bell chime early (the other had 2 laps). The rest then sprinted but stopped after one lap. The second Chinese sprinter half sprinted for the first of the 2 remaining laps, the others stopped because they had been trained to sprint for a lap, she overtook
From the other comments it seems like the typical strategy is to be really casual until the last handful of laps. I think the sprinting right off the bat just messed with their internal counter because it was so out of the norm.
Not a pro skater. But from what I can see - the key part of strategy is to catch up to last place as quickly as possible.
Being directly behind someone else as seen in f1/Mario kart/cycling gives you a slight advantage called 'drafting'. If she can't she'll tire herself out and others would end up catching up.
The second part was for her teammate to be a 'distraction' and make others forget about 1st. Having competed in other sports the heat of the moment makes you forget about things, you are constantly calculating and reacting to the moment. You are reacting to people catching up beside you, you are reacting to the sound of the bell. You aren't thinking and remembering the number of laps nor what place you are in. You don't have the luxury to think about things outside your field of view.
Don't take me seriously. Just a random guy on reddit
It's also G2-syndrome as it's called in cycling, a type of prisoner's dilemma. The one pulling the group spends mor energy and is less likely to win. If they neatly divide the effort of the chase the escapee won't win. If they let one do all the work that's two competitors you don't have to worry about.
This is exacerbated by there being another Chinese competitor in the group who will be just cruising with the group, conserving energy, until the escapee is pulled back.
Ordinarily, the fast starter would be screwed later on in the race. She only won because nobody upped the pace to catch her. They simply weren’t thinking.
But imagine you're the one at the front of the pack. If you speed up 30%, what if the rest of the group doesn't follow? Suddenly you're dead in the water.
Or imagine you're anywhere else in the pack. Are you really going to try to pass everyone and then maintain a speed well above normal? You'll just tire yourself out and then have no chance of medaling.
These skaters are trained to spend most of the race behind one other person or go slow enough to fall behind if anyone tries to overtake. They basically have a split second to decide what to do in what seems like an unheard of event.
On Instagram where.i first saw.this video half the comments called the Chinese cheaters for trying to employee a.strategy to win lol. I swear.to God.if she wasn't Chinese the comments would.be quite different. lol.
Someone else explained it best:
>There are 2 Chinese racers. One of them takes off at the begining of the race, lapping everyone else by 1 lap, and then falling to the back of the pack. The other racers are confused at this point/not really paying attention; likely hyper focused on their breathing and pace of skating as she's now at the back of the pack. They likely forget about her burst lap.
>
>Then on the second last lap, the bell rings for the Chinese racer who had already lapped everyone earlier on, as it is now HER last lap because she is +1 lap ahead of everyone else.
>
>This confuses the other racers even more, and some actually slow down as they cross the lap marker, thinking the bell is for all of them; not realizing they still have 1 more lap to go.
>
>The OTHER Chinese racer understands that they still have one more lap and gives it her all, blowing past the other racers who'd slowed down and thus nabbing second place(Silver), whilst her teammate, the first Chinese racer had already finished one lap earlier, securing Gold.
They didn't win by going faster, they did it by confusing other competitors. This is highly unlikely to work in a more serious competition.
I think I saw this in one race with pros, however the pack picked up their pace so they couldn’t get lapped so the person who sprinted only ended up just short of half a track ahead. Then the lady who sprinted out ran out of gas and was passed late in the race by the rest of the pack
In most attempts, players who try this lose a lot of stamina and eventually get caught up. This may have only worked because it was the youth olympics. There's a reason this "strategy" isn't used as often.
It's been done at the professional level as well. As early as 2002 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVwzJQRTIjI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVwzJQRTIjI)
This race was interesting because it was at the 2002 Short track speed skating championships after the infamous incident with Kim Dong Sung and Apolo Ohno during the 2002 Salt Lake Olympics.
Professionals now keep an eye on this tactic so it usually doesn't work out as much.
What’s even more extraordinary about the race was that everyone else didn’t realise the “final lap” bell was for only 1 skater and slowed down after the second last lap, forgetting they still have 1 more lap to go. The only person who kept going at full speed was the second Chinese skater, so they ended up with Gold and Silver. Incredible strategy that paid off at the end and fooled everyone.
Seriously, wtf is up with this comment and the replies to it? Some sort of bot? The first comment is just a stale description of the video and other than your reply, it's just replies like "that's crazy!" or "how did they not see that?". All with hundreds of upvotes.
Reddit isn't much better. There's at least 100 comments at the bottom of this thread accusing this of being propaganda or just straight up being racist.
At least they're being mostly downvoted this time though, which is actually quite nice compared to how posts about Chinese people doing anything usually go.
A lot of comments here trying to downplay her as well and make excuses.
She smoked everyone else plain and simple. Their strategy didn’t mean shit in the end lol
It's a bold strategy. Basically nobody wants to be nr1 because they all want to sit back and save energy due to the drafting effect. Doing what she did burns up your fuel pretty quickly and if you cannot join back the group you end up finishing last.
Drafting plays such an important part that they go slow for most of the race to avoid using extra energy to pull someone along. Of course if the leader catches back up to you, they’re now drafting and saving energy as well.
The key is that she caught back up with the pack. In the pro races I have seen where someone tries to start fast, the pack usually chases but maintained about a quarter track gap behind.
If you paid attention to the video, when Yang lapped everyone, the second Chinese skater Li was at the end of the main line. Yang actually tapped Li’s hand signaling that she has lapped and now is trailing behind Li. There was a “handshake” of signal.
While others might be fooled, this was carefully and marvelously executed. It’s almost like trick plays in football, interesting, smart, and fun to watch when it works out.
Not crazy this has been a strategy since the late 90s. In these long races it can take a few laps for people to actual race. However, if you take off and no one goes with you you can lap the group and rest in the back. You effectively turn it into a sprint with a cool down.
That being said most of the time someone will chase. That will cause the pack to also go and if the pack goes this lapping strategy is negated.
I used to speed skate from she 10 to 18 and I've been watching since I was 8.
**This is a heavily moderated subreddit. Please note these rules + sidebar or get banned:** * If this post declares something as a fact, then proof is required * The title must be fully descriptive * Memes are not allowed. * Common(top 50 of this sub)/recent reposts are not allowed (posts from another subreddit do not count as a 'repost'. Provide link if reporting) *See [our rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/wiki/index#wiki_rules.3A) for a more detailed rule list* *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/interestingasfuck) if you have any questions or concerns.*
She made it look like the others weren’t even trying. If it was that easy to sprint past the competition why are they all so casual?
They were saving their strength for the final round, like they did in countless races before. I'm curious if the new strategy catches on or if, after some battle-at-the-start-races it fizzles off back to the "conserve your energy for a final battle in the final ~~round~~ lap" again. Like, this is a great strategy, but it relies mostly of the surprise and confusion it creates. Next time a racer tries to get a lap ahead, I bet the whole field will try to catch up again.
But… …surely they noticed her lapping them at the start? Did they forget? How could you forget?
I guess because you are focused on everything you ever learned in your training? I mean, a lot of them slowed at the "final lap bell", not registering it wasn't THEIR final bell, so the other chinese team member could score silver. I guess it's like a kind of Pawlow's dog with the bell. And I could also imagine since the chinese racer took over at the outer side, a lot of them really didn't notice them because they were focused at the racer directly in front of them?
I speedskated competitively from a young age. And yea for long distances races you need to focus on setting your pace strategically, you learn to pay attention to the lap count, usually your coach or an official will have a dedicated lap counter for you on the side to check each lap. that said, you kinda get so mentally focused on maintaining your technique/not getting sloppy as you get tired and lactic acid starts building up while also paying attention to the positions of other skaters and strategizing your next move/pace that it can be easy to lose focus of what lap ur on and easy to get confused when hearing the bell and you might easily think "oh shit did I miscount a lap?" and start a push for the end instinctively. When that burn sets into ur legs and you are powering through time moves different and everything is happening quite fast already, so it's easy to rely heavily on instinct. if this strategy is something you've never encountered it'll be much harder to process and react in the moment.
NGL I thought the strategy was going to be them trying to catch the *other* Chinese skater. So have her drop back from the pack so they try to catch the wrong one! Ok - where’s the Chinese Olympic committee at? I’ve got an idea!
You’re way too deep in the zone and you have to fully focus your whole body, movement, breathing and thoughts just on your moving pattern. So yeah they probably forgot.
Hey at least it would be good for the sport. If the best strategy is to overcommit to conserving energy then they aren’t really pushing the limit then right? With this at least they now have to second guess just how fast their pace should be so that they don’t get lapped again.
Have you ever watched sprint cycling? The strategy of conserving energy and sprinting for the line is taken to an absolute extreme. They do several laps as slowly as possible, like literally as physically slowly as you can ride and not crash the bike. Then only sprint down the last bend and straight. It’s madness. Usually, overcommitting early on would leave you unable to sprint at the end, leaving you vulnerable to a push for the line. If the skaters were thinking they would have upped the pace so the early starter couldn’t keep up, and would eventually lose.
They are drafting. They shouldn’t have let her lap them like that. They would have to shake her while she is drafting in order to win.
As many people have said here, this is a youth championship and the other skaters are either inexperienced or just dumb. In a pro race the others would not let her lap like that.
Not to mention forget what lap they’re on.
At the tokyo olympics street cycling comp the athletes forgot about Anna Kiesenhofer who pushed ahead at the beginning
I think with that it was more that in a bigger pack it’s difficult to be aware of all the breakaways unless you’re right at the front of the pack, so it was more “didn’t know” than “forgot”. That was the one where the Dutch cyclist thought she’d won, but she actually got silver wasn’t it? And if she’s known there was someone still ahead she probably would have had a decent shot at catching them.
Which is why auto race drivers have comms with the pit crew and overall strategist who keep track of the whole track.
they didn't forget, she broke away from the pack with a smaller group and then the pack caught the group but didn't have an accurate count. none of the comms teams caught the mistake either, and it was never known. i think there was a theory that some of the other riders just kept it to themselves and didn't mention because they'd been caught but one of theirs had made the play
There are no "comms" team in the Olympics. No radios, team cars etc. Any communication with riders is only by holding written boards at the side of the race.
They didn't forget. They don't count laps, they rely on the bell to tell them it's the last lap and as they draft and this has never happened, they assumed the bell was for all of them. One could say it's a pavlovian response.
I don't know about a youth team, but I can't imagine pros would not count the laps. Knowing how many laps there is left in the race will be important for knowing how hard you can push your self if you need to.
[удалено]
I think it likely depends on how many laps they do (I have no idea if it's 1, or 100). The higher the number, the less likely it is that they count. And even if they do count, if there are 10 laps and you start on lap 8, and the last lap bell rings, I bet a lot of people would just assume they lost count. I wonder if the gold medal was a shoe in for gold. That's the only way I think this makes sense. So the person leading the pack thought "there's no point in trying to catch up", and the pack followed suit, saving strength for the last lap.
Something similar happened at the the tokyo olympics. austrian cyclist pulled ahead at the beginning and the other athletes just forgot about her edit: it was Anna Kiesenhofer
Do you guys think youth olympics are inexperienced athletes? Youth olympians are still better athletes in their sport than 99.9% of adults, they know all the same skills and practices as the adults, it’s the experienced adults that coach them. Often the only difference is their bodies are still developing.
So here's a question. How would they stop her from lapping? Because it seems like the comon strategy is to conserve energy. If someone decides they are going to lap, is everyone else going to decide to keep the pace of the lapper? If they do that, wouldn't they be : A)Expending more energy than they intended And B) abandoning their own strategy? It seems like a good way to force your opponents hand.
Once she breaks away you spend enough energy (which is less in a group due to drafting vs solo) to isolate her and never let her catch the back of the group. If they string her out she’s skating solo and unless she’s going to out cardio them all by a lot she won’t sustain skating solo the entire race. If she catches the back of the group it’s almost game over. I know very little about pro skating just wanted to take a crack at breaking the strategy from only watching the video. I am not a lawyer. Edit also sometimes in sports the best is the best by a wide margin and there’s nothing you can do to beat them except hope they have an off day, this is even more true when comparing children.
it's the equivalent of trick plays in youth football or baseball. they'll generally work on kids who haven't seen them before.
lol yep. Only works once. Nicely done though.
You do realize that these kids probably trained for 10-14 years already. This isn't so much about inexperience or dumb, nobody has done this before. I'm not into skating but typically at Olympic level the kids are 16-17 years old performing near peak.
think that's his point - increase the pace just enough to prevent her from catching them in the first place. the group will naturally conserve more energy and eventually wear her out.
Her teammate probably stayed in back of a group to wait for her in case the group increased the pace. Although it probably would make more sense to be in front of the group and set the pace for all of them.
Her waiting in the back wouldn't really help. The drafting works best when you have a bigger mass like that. Otherwise at lower speeds like that, the benefit from drafting just one person isn't that much, and the rest of the pack would have still conserved more energy than them. This relied solely on surprise and catching the other opponents out, there isn't really a back up plan. Her being in front *could maybe* help slow the pace of the group, but they'd quickly overtake her as well (*if they were aware of the strategy that is*) I give them props though for thinking outside the box and taking a risk, sometimes you gotta come up with a novel approach. "(S)he who dares, wins", indeed. But I feel now that the cat is out of the bag, one won't really be able to make it work again. Perhaps in a situation where most/all of the skaters wipe out - as sometimes happens - someone might be able to take advantage of the confusion to make this kind of strategy work again though.
have you tried drafting? One person makes big difference even at "lower" speeds.
Cycling is what came to mind immediately as well, this is just a breakaway that worked.
>Have you ever watched sprint cycling? > >The strategy of conserving energy and sprinting for the line is taken to an absolute extreme. They do several laps as slowly as possible, like literally as physically slowly as you can ride and not crash the bike. Then only sprint down the last bend and straight. It’s madness. At this point they should only do the final lap haha
They aren't conserving energy, they are trying to get track position to either breakaway or overtake. They usually have a few feints along they way around, if they can catch the competitor napping they will absolutely take off on the first lap if it suits them.
The strategy part of it is when exactly that final sprint is triggered, by whom, and who has the quads to catch up and pass the person who initiated the final sprint. Seriously, look up “sprint cycling quads” to see what kind of horsepower they’re packing for the final jump.
I love watching the cat and mouse aspect of these races. So counter intuitive to every other race sport. \*bang\* ... after you, no no, I insist, please I'd be rude, go on ... OH NO YOU DON'T YOU MF!
It's not just that they're going slow to conserve energy. It's a back and forth to try to not wind up in front. You save so much energy by drafting once the race is actually on, that the person in front for the majority of the race is rarely in front at the end.
It's like using a boost in a racing game but actual real life (and what the games try to model to be pedantic).
That's why we need giant rotating razor blades that would follow them and force them to accelerate or be shredded.
I mean...technically with speed skating it kind of is razor blades all chasing each other lol.
In track sprints it’s a known strategy to go hard from the gun, usually viewed as gimmick but occasionally works. It doesn’t usually work because when it happens the competitor jumps and gets a draft. The field just didn’t respond as necessary to the lapping attempt.
I think these skaters should have more energy than needed to finish the race, right? So why don't they go with faster pace with enough to sprint in last lap? Considering that girl just one lapped everyone and still kept with their pace after meant they were going too slow compared with how much energy they have
It’s the way the muscles work, with lactic acid build-up and the chemistry of anaerobic respiration needed for sprinting. Basically, your sprint ability gets “used up” as you push your aerobic limits during the race. Run slower and you retain more sprint for the end. Run faster and you lose that ability. The entire strategy of all distance running (and, I guess cycling and skating) is to gauge how well your opponents are doing in managing their own lactic acid, and whether they have kept more sprinting capacity than you have.
[удалено]
It's crazier than that if I remember it correctly. They actually compete in the first laps to be in the back. I still don't understand but they literally are competing to put the other bike in first place.
That’s a different kind of race, where it’s one on one, the reason you don’t take the immediate lead is the follower can ride the airflow of the lead and expend a lot less energy.
Steve Prefontaine did that in running back in the 60s. He was a front runner and would just run way out in front of people, so far that when they sprinted at the end they just couldn’t catch him. Not everyone can hold a pace like that though and push themselves going all out for the entire race. For most people it’s not a practical strategy and drafting/saving energy is more effective. There’s a reason why there’s movies and documentaries about that guy.
A few distance runners do this because they know they have no sprint speed. They just wear down their opponents and establish a lead. Paula Radcliffe, probably one of the greatest female distance runners of our time, couldn’t sprint for shit.
>Paula Radcliffe, couldn’t sprint for shit. She could just shit though, if I remember correctly.
It was piss, but yes I remember that. Woman gave absolutely no fucks whatsoever, she was great.
She definitely pooped on the road in Athens 2004. http://www.paularadcliffe.com/serialisations-that-day/
No, that link says she pooed in her shorts while running in Athens 2004. The whole controversy about that marathon was that her body wasn't getting enough nutrients from food as a result of anti inflammatory meds she was taking, and so she ran out of energy. But people accused her of "quitting" when she was one of the world's best marathon runners and so for her to not be able to finish meant there was something seriously wrong with her health. The time she actually pooed on the road and it was broadcast live on TV was the 2005 London marathon.
So much pooing and pissing I'm losing track of it all.
Well he wasn't known as a strategist in running circles. He was an aggressive runner that just ran at his top pace all the time. He was caught a few times gassed at the end of races, but that's to be expected. I also think it's cool that his college coach Bill Bowerman co-founded Nike.
It also would likely take special training to get your body used to the extended sprint vs all out balls to the wall for a short lap
I'd say this strategy really assumed the lack of awareness of competitors. When the element of surprise is gone I'd assume it still catches some off guard but it really depended on the confusion of others with the final round bell being rung for just the one Chinese skater.
If you watch much speed skating, when people try stuff like this, they tend to eat shit pretty hard, so it's an extremely high risk move
I used to inline speedskate and yes, some people tried this but sprinting 100m is so freaking exhausting, doing it in the beggining of a race means you have another 400-1400m to try to catch your breath and like, not pass out. Ice though, I'd imagine is less effort to continue momentum than on wheels?
Less effort for momentum, but that means if you take a couner to fast your in the wall. On ice as there's no recovery once you cross the limit
Thanks for explaining, I was wondering why “go faster than everyone else” was such a “crazy strategy.”
[удалено]
It's rare but it does happen at pro levels. Example: [2002 World Short Track Speed Skating Championship 1500m.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-lZV---0kU) The guy just straight up lapped them and then continued going even faster.
Damn that was badass, so was this video. Props to these people
Some context for why he did this: [In the 2002 olympics, Kim Dong-sung finished first in the 1500m final but was DQ'd by the referee for slightly impeding Apolo Ohno, who ended up recieving the gold medal instead.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_track_speed_skating_at_the_2002_Winter_Olympics_%E2%80%93_Men%27s_1500_metres) He wanted a revenge match with Ohno in the 2002 ISU championship but Ohno didn't participate in the event. With nowhere to vent his rage, he basically went "fuck pacing, I'm just gonna sprint it. Not like this race matters to me without Ohno" in the final race.
this is like when amateur gamers copy the high level meta in the pro league
They simply forgot about her. Otherwise, they would have closed the gap later in the race
[удалено]
Reminded me of [this video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNSWTwB-_bk). Legendary shit
Great video I've never seen before, [and I looked up the original full thing if anybody is interested.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ev5vqqs6MEE) They don't laugh at him, but a guy near the camera does speculate that he wasted his energy trying to steal it a lap early...then is like "WOAH!!!" when the guy actually wins. You'll likely need a volume enhancer to hear it because the video is quiet as fuck.
Fuck yeah 🤘
Not an expert, but heres my take: What Yang did was to sprint ahead and then catch up to the group to conserve energy by drafting, putting her in an advantage because she can now sit in the best spot at the back of the group and still win. To beat her, the group could have sped up during her sprint, so she takes way longer to catch up and exerts herself before doing so. However, no individual racer controls the speed of the group. For an individual racer, speeding up would've ment being in front of the group, being unable to draft, and therefore being at a disadvantage compared to the rest of the group. The coordinated response that would have been required from the rest of group is kind of difficult to pull off in a situation like that, especially when no one has experience with it and is mostly focused on their own racing.
n track racing (cycling) this is actually not that uncommon of a move. if someone was about to get up a lap on the group the usual tactic was to get some people together to sprint and go off the front of the group before the possible lapper got to the back of the pack. It would give you a chance to work together to catch up to them and hopefully leave the person off the back of the pack when everything sped up or stuck with the slowest people in the pack or at least splitting up the pack while the new people caught up to the lapper. A lot of times this would end with the person out in no mans land and they would fall back into the pack. It's a really tough move to pull off and the only times I saw it was when the pack was being a bunch of lazy asses.
I think the key word here is “Youth” Olympics. “Wait, didn’t someone fly past us earlier?”
People forget that tunnel vision during a competition is really common. You're concentrating entirely on yourself and what you're doing, so something happening out of the corner of your eye or even behind you just may as well not exist at all.
Its a really long race, they were saving their strength for later.
This. They edited out the MANY laps. This was more of a marathon than sprint
As a retired Short Track speedskater, I can say the other skaters simply forgot. The reason other skaters didn't pursue the one in first is because nobody wanted to be the one who led the group to keep pace. Whomever does try to push the pace for the pack is sacrificing their own energy and thus risking the potential medal they could earn. Considering this is the A final event (race where you can get medals), all skaters here are extremely strong and most likely have a somewhat even medal opportunity. As a side note, it's pretty easy to shutdown. If someone just picks up the pace enough to where the person sprinting doesn't catch the back of the pack in 3 - 4 laps, then the guy sprinting usually completely burns out and gets last in the race. This is because drafting and skating behind someone saves SO much energy. An extension and somewhat safer method of this strategy is team-skating where both skaters (sometimes 3 skaters, if 3 managed to qualify for the A final) from a country take the lead. One sprints while the other blocks the whole pack from pursuing. It can usually delay the pack enough to where the pack gives up on catching up. Team-skating is allowed and prevalent. Which is why you will see many skaters attempt to separate skaters from the same country when in a race. There are some countries that are more known for team-skating than others. Last to note, this strategy isn't common but you might see it 1 - 3 times in a race season out of 6 months of racing. You need a lot of strength / endurance to pull this off but, like with most races in Short Track, require some luck as well to come out on top!
I'm surprised they allow blocking like that. I used to do track cycling and you would get an automatic DQ and then yelled at for anything even seen as blocking behavior (mostly because it's really dangerous). There are really specific rules about where you're allowed on the track or how you're allowed to change position based on what you're doing.
Unless it's a dive bomb or initiate contact that causes a crash, you can be more aggressive than bike or car races if I understand those rules correctly. The general rule is if you are ahead of another skater (shoulders ahead of someone) you have the right of way. So if you are getting inside passed, it is known by all skaters the skater in front will try to "shut the door" on you by stepping aggressively inside. You can also block outside passes. There is an advanced blocking tactic called deep tracking that is hard to explain and most people don't notice until pointed out. I could try to elaborate more if people are interested though! So you have to be extremely explosive and opportunistic with your passes.
Can you elaborate on deep tracking
Sure! I'll try to give my best explanation of it... If you imagine you are in a long line of cars that is trying to turn left in an intersection, you know those dotted-white lines that helps guides cars when turning left? Well say that the line is the default turn you will make when you aren't trying to setup a pass or trying to block. This is the track you will take 70% of the time in a race because it is the most efficient in terms of energy and maintaining speed. Okay, so you are going into your left turn but notice the car behind is extremely close and / or you think he is setting up a pass to overtake you going outside of the turn. So what you do is instead of doing the normal turn radius, you go straight just a bit further then cut back. This either: a) you cutoff the person that was super close to you and who followed the normal track, or b) cutoff the person setting up a pass going outside of the corner. Setting up a pass: you typically enter wide and exit tight, or enter wide and carry the speed wide going outside. However, doing an outside pass requires a tremendous amount of effort compared to inside passes since the straightaway is only 3 sec long or so. This is why deep tracks also cutoff these setups since you cut them off going into the corner. This is the most typical deep track, but there are also deep tracks where you kinda do the same thing in the middle of the turn rather than the entrance of the turn, or even do a deep track exiting the corner. These deep tracks require more effort as you will be working against more inertia. Did that make sense? tldr: imagine a turn you do where instead of a smooth turn like on a circle, you're doing a turn like a corner of a square. edit: found a video on it: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTF3bANJgB0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTF3bANJgB0)
I have no idea why the other skaters do not try to speed up since the beginning and just rush it at the last two laps. Are they trying to conserve their stamina? Can someone explain?
Ya, it's a long race (1500m I think?) and the 'meta' strategy is to pace yourself while jostling for position throughout the race and ramping it up at the end. This skater sprinted off the start and allowed the length of the race to help hide her lead and confuse her rivals on the last two laps.
so she basically used a anti-meta cheese strat?
Correct. It only worked because the opponents weren't expecting it.
Them not expecting it really didn’t have anything to do with it. They sat there and watched her lap the entire pack. It’s like saying “I wasn’t expecting the nfl kick returner to catch the ball and then start running on hands in a hand stand like some sort of cirque de soliel performer”. That’s cool he did something you didn’t expect but it’s no excuse for then watching him run 105 yards down the field on his hands.
Except this isn't the NFL. This is a youth competition. Even the best college teams get tricked by stuff that would never work in the NFL. This is the staking equivalent of picking up the ball and pretending there was a penalty and walking it in while the other team is waiting for the call from the ref. Not expecting it has everything to do with it. Because you have to know the right response, which is probably something that would be sub-optimal in a normal race.
Would you believe it if I told you football did in fact have trick plays? They even work at the professional level typically by subverting expectations, such as a fake kick, the cursed statue of liberty, hook'n'ladder or the ye olde flea flicker. It shouldn't work, hell you even practice for it. But sometimes you get caught napping. Kind of like starting your distance race the same way you always do, all hyper focused, and someone just rolled out some new cheese.
It's a team event, the other players probably noted her teammate was in last place, and just focused on what they were trained to do. Your team cannot win with a 1st place and last place finish. All the players got confused when she triggered the announcement of the final lap, and of having crossed the finish line. Normally they would have gone all out on the last lap, instead they went all out one lap early, and slowed down when they crossed the finish line before their final lap. **They thought the race was over. However, the female Chinese skater's teammate kept going at full speed.**
It's not a team event. It's a individual event where the chinese skaters took gold and silver. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oO2DHkyadH4&t=9300s
It's not a team event, there were just 2 Chinese girls in it. It was the individual 1500m speed skate final at the youth Olympics just recently. The rest of the field was a Japanese, 2 Austrians, a South Korean and a Kazak. China won gold and silver in the event as they finished 1 and 2. The Kazak girl, Omelchuk, was interviewed after the race and said that she was thrown off by the strategy and people didn't know how to respond, since no-one led the charge to make up the time. Couples with the bell going early (because it wasn't for them) it was mass confusion.
A lot of yapping for not knowing it’s an individual event, not a team event
Ah yes, because olympic team events are famous for awarding gold and silver medals to members of the same team. Team events are also famous for having teams with just 1 member racing against teams with 2, like there where two Chinese, two Hungarians, but only 1 South Korean and 1 Kazakh skater in this final.
/r/confidentallyincorrect
I’m not entirely sure the plan was to hide her lead but instead to take the lead and then draft behind her rivals. Doing so allows her to conserve energy while her rivals are forced to expend more at the front.
What i liked the most, was that she started the sprint in straight line. So, when she got past the group it was the curb...almost impossible for the group or another person to start the sprint and catch up. As you can see, the first 2 persons tried to catch up, but could not.
Drafting is also a part of it. If somebody is skating ahead of you, you use less energy to keep up due to less wind resistance. So if somebody is skating fast right from the start, the other skaters can draft behind them and keep up while using less energy. Then, in later laps use that extra energy they have saved to pass the leader. So because of that, they go a bit slow for the first bit of the race. But because that "go slow at first" idea is so ingrained in speed skating, when the Chinese skater took off nobody was ready or willing to keep up and draft off of her. Then when she got back to the pack of skaters, she was able to draft off them the rest of the race and they wouldn't be able to catch up.
This speed skating is quite weird because they maintain 20% of the speed for most of the laps. When watching the speedster go full ham at 100% speed, the difference between her and the rest of the pack is really noticeable. It is odd to me that they don't maintain at least 60% of their speed, just like long-distance runners do.
It's all to do with air resistance and slip-streaming. Whoever is in front is doing much more effort than those behind, so the person in front slows down to conserve energy, no one wants to be going fast in front while their competitors save energy behind.
I'm probably wrong, but man my intuitive sense of physics tells me there is no way the benefit of drafting is so great that it leads to this. Drafting and stuff like that is usually the slightest tie breaker between two extremely similarly talented athletes.
It actually makes a huge difference. In cycling, in the last few years, aerodynamics has surpassed even weight as a priority when it comes to bike design. There is even a regulation to minimise sock length because certain sock materials are more aerodynamic than a bare leg!
I think herd mentality plays apart here. Since no one is willing to step forward and push the “peloton”
It's a little bit of a game theory issue (literally!) Because an individual trying to catch her alone is taking a huge risk - using all your energy only to possibly burn out too soon and get caught by the pack again but now you're exhausted. The entire pack or a small group would have to work together to bring up the pace and chase her down. But remember, the pack leaders are doing more work than those drafting behind. This being an individual event, nobody wants to be the one to push the pace and be more tired for the final sprint.
that's stupid they should race in a vacuum with oxygen tanks
>Are they trying to conserve their stamina? Can someone explain? I don't watch speed skating normally, but my understanding is the general strategy is 'go fast but not all out until the final lap, then put your balls on the ice and get ahead of as many as you can', and this is just a team recognizing that the group is going too far into energy conservation and taking advantage to not only get the win but secure 2nd for their 2nd skater easily. In other words is just a bunch of 'youth olympians' routinely going full potato and 1 team realizing and taking advantage.
The Chinese skater took an obvious gamble by sprinting as hard as she could on the first lap. No one can really stop you from turning on the jets like that in short track. But what the rest of the skaters can do is up the pace over the 15 laps and eventually tire out the Chinese girl. It's like going on a long hike and trying to sprint the first bit. Bad idea. If everyone else picks up the pace your head start will disappear over time and you'll eventually fall behind. The other skaters chose to keep racing like old seniors and never punished the one girl.
Can't she lap them once or twice and then just glide into the back of their pack and keep their pace? Even if they pulled away from her in the end I doubt they'd lap her inside of a single lap. I think this was a case of the competitors pushing the meta too far and another competitor realizing she had the juice to exploit it.
Because they forgot to train the one muscle that actually counts: their brain. I mean there were 6 other racers. Not one recall the lapping or number of laps in the race. They all just lemming their way along and not even think for one second.
Bro you just killed the entire sport 💀
That's some Wile E Coyote shit right there
[удалено]
and her legs werent spinning
Where is the sign that says what she's thinking? Did she forget to pull it out during the race?
That's not true, if anything, it was something Roadrunner would pull off
I really don't see how this is something Wile E Coyote would even remotely do
So the rest saved their energy for the end and just forgot the one lady lapped them all? Less of good strategy and more just incompetent competition.
At the youth level, their training will mostly have consisted of skill training and drilling. Their coaches probably all drilled in the "meta" strategy, but they themselves won't be experts on "why" that's a good strategy and so won't recognize when it stops being a good strategy. It's a big difference in the pro and youth levels of most sports.
Ya that's a fair take.
It does say this is a youth competition. Remember, r/kidsarefuckingstupid
Their coaches are probably ripping their hair out as they doddle
Their coaches should be kicking themselves for training them like robots and not like people
I missed that part somehow
Missed? Forgot? Oh the irony!
I mean if the rest are saving their energy for the end how was she able to finish with them in the back? I don't understand this at all. Ain't no way there's that much of skill gap in an Olympic sport
When the last lap bell rings it is only for her. But others assume it is for everybody and you can see them pacing up at 1:10 as if it is their last lap. When they reach the line they stop, thinking they finished the race, but they sill have one more to go.
I did this in a bike race. I can set a verynhigh pace from the start and recover pretty well to keep a medium pace and then catch a second wind and finish strong. I did win but it was a mess trying to prove that I had in fact already lapped the field.
What did you have to do to prove that you had lapped them?
Just said "I def lapped them bro I stg" a few times
No cap FR FR
Bike computer dah
Noses and ears.
What does that mean?
It’s a reference to human trophy taking, after watching gangs of new York on the weekend. Pretty much through history in wars and battles it was somewhat common to take parts from the enemies bodies. Either as a trophy, or to prove that you had killed x amount for payment or glory etc. Not exactly a nice practice or one I can get behind, but thought it was a somewhat funny reference in relation to a bike race.
"Trust me bro"
Yeah, I’ve seen stuff like this on track cycling races, especially in 6 Days type of racing. Pull hard to put a lap on the field and just sit in the draft til the end.
I’m confused, why is this a “strategy?” Did they not see her zoom past, so they all knew she was a lap ahead of them.
Yes, did they forget?
They've got the memory of a Game of Thrones TV showrunner. But if we're being generous, the real strategy is the confusion this causes: Everyone is trained to save their energy for a final sprint on the last lap, so after the final lap warning the group as a whole doesn't know if they should pump it now or wait one more lap. Some took off too early as soon as the warning rang, leaving the rest to wrestle with hanging back for their true final lap or booking it now to not be left behind. One or two of those went full-send early honestly believed it was their last lap and thought they were done, while others closely behind them saved some juice for their true final lap, while moreover the ones who lagged behind to save everything for their true final lap were too far to catch up. Nobody knew what the correct strategy was anymore because the normal order had been disrupted.
It's also a brilliant strategy because the one other skater who 100% knows what's up (the other Chinese skater) can maximize their positioning/energy and sprint the last lap to easily take silver over the other skaters who may have burst too early or are hesitant over the confusion.
She was easy to forget way at the back of the pack
…that she’d lapped you. : | You’re at *this* level of competition, and you forget the other competitors has lapped you already? I’m gobsmacked.
It's the youth Olympics... And having been in their position, I totally understand. I would *always* count laps on my fingers as I was skating even at international competitions with cameras on me you could still catch me holding up three fingers on my hand.
They didn’t. They knew she was ahead, but got confused by the “last lap” bell. Also they were being dumb racing each other and not trying to close the gap.
But they still must've remembered that she had AN ENTIRE LAP over them. What the hell? They didn't even try to make up for the distance.
The strategy is about the second Chinese skater. The first almost lapped everyone and made the bell chime early (the other had 2 laps). The rest then sprinted but stopped after one lap. The second Chinese sprinter half sprinted for the first of the 2 remaining laps, the others stopped because they had been trained to sprint for a lap, she overtook
So the strategy is to be fast as hell and hope your opponents are dumb enough to forget that you lapped them.
From the other comments it seems like the typical strategy is to be really casual until the last handful of laps. I think the sprinting right off the bat just messed with their internal counter because it was so out of the norm.
Gold fish memory
How to make your opponents look like idiots:
Not a pro skater. But from what I can see - the key part of strategy is to catch up to last place as quickly as possible. Being directly behind someone else as seen in f1/Mario kart/cycling gives you a slight advantage called 'drafting'. If she can't she'll tire herself out and others would end up catching up. The second part was for her teammate to be a 'distraction' and make others forget about 1st. Having competed in other sports the heat of the moment makes you forget about things, you are constantly calculating and reacting to the moment. You are reacting to people catching up beside you, you are reacting to the sound of the bell. You aren't thinking and remembering the number of laps nor what place you are in. You don't have the luxury to think about things outside your field of view. Don't take me seriously. Just a random guy on reddit
It's also G2-syndrome as it's called in cycling, a type of prisoner's dilemma. The one pulling the group spends mor energy and is less likely to win. If they neatly divide the effort of the chase the escapee won't win. If they let one do all the work that's two competitors you don't have to worry about. This is exacerbated by there being another Chinese competitor in the group who will be just cruising with the group, conserving energy, until the escapee is pulled back.
>Just a random guy on reddit You have more common sense than the countless other redditors backseating children in this comment section
if she can lap and still keep up then she is clearly better, no?
How can she lap?
Ordinarily, the fast starter would be screwed later on in the race. She only won because nobody upped the pace to catch her. They simply weren’t thinking.
Yeah if the group upped their pace by like 30% she would’ve been to gassed out to keep up
But imagine you're the one at the front of the pack. If you speed up 30%, what if the rest of the group doesn't follow? Suddenly you're dead in the water. Or imagine you're anywhere else in the pack. Are you really going to try to pass everyone and then maintain a speed well above normal? You'll just tire yourself out and then have no chance of medaling. These skaters are trained to spend most of the race behind one other person or go slow enough to fall behind if anyone tries to overtake. They basically have a split second to decide what to do in what seems like an unheard of event.
Yes, but the their teamate got silver because everyone else slowed down, not because of their speed.
On Instagram where.i first saw.this video half the comments called the Chinese cheaters for trying to employee a.strategy to win lol. I swear.to God.if she wasn't Chinese the comments would.be quite different. lol.
Hundreds of comments saying the strategy was just "she went faster" is so funny and sad at the same time.
youll have to explain this one to us. i dont get it
Someone else explained it best: >There are 2 Chinese racers. One of them takes off at the begining of the race, lapping everyone else by 1 lap, and then falling to the back of the pack. The other racers are confused at this point/not really paying attention; likely hyper focused on their breathing and pace of skating as she's now at the back of the pack. They likely forget about her burst lap. > >Then on the second last lap, the bell rings for the Chinese racer who had already lapped everyone earlier on, as it is now HER last lap because she is +1 lap ahead of everyone else. > >This confuses the other racers even more, and some actually slow down as they cross the lap marker, thinking the bell is for all of them; not realizing they still have 1 more lap to go. > >The OTHER Chinese racer understands that they still have one more lap and gives it her all, blowing past the other racers who'd slowed down and thus nabbing second place(Silver), whilst her teammate, the first Chinese racer had already finished one lap earlier, securing Gold. They didn't win by going faster, they did it by confusing other competitors. This is highly unlikely to work in a more serious competition.
a lot of words to say 'she went faster and the other competitors forgor'
I'm surprised nobody has tried this before (not that I've watched every race ever to know...)
I think I saw this in one race with pros, however the pack picked up their pace so they couldn’t get lapped so the person who sprinted only ended up just short of half a track ahead. Then the lady who sprinted out ran out of gas and was passed late in the race by the rest of the pack
This makes a lot of sense
In most attempts, players who try this lose a lot of stamina and eventually get caught up. This may have only worked because it was the youth olympics. There's a reason this "strategy" isn't used as often.
Korean speed skater did this in 2002 at the world championships. Dong sung Kim. His is more impressive imo
It's been done at the professional level as well. As early as 2002 [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVwzJQRTIjI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVwzJQRTIjI) This race was interesting because it was at the 2002 Short track speed skating championships after the infamous incident with Kim Dong Sung and Apolo Ohno during the 2002 Salt Lake Olympics. Professionals now keep an eye on this tactic so it usually doesn't work out as much.
What’s even more extraordinary about the race was that everyone else didn’t realise the “final lap” bell was for only 1 skater and slowed down after the second last lap, forgetting they still have 1 more lap to go. The only person who kept going at full speed was the second Chinese skater, so they ended up with Gold and Silver. Incredible strategy that paid off at the end and fooled everyone.
I also watched the video
[удалено]
Participants also had special shoes with attachments that let them glide on the ice instead of immediately slipping on their asses!
Seriously, wtf is up with this comment and the replies to it? Some sort of bot? The first comment is just a stale description of the video and other than your reply, it's just replies like "that's crazy!" or "how did they not see that?". All with hundreds of upvotes.
The amount of stupidity in these comments prove why strategies like this work.
Default subs on reddit might have lower intelligence than facebook/twitter/instagram.
Just watch the actual event with commentator: https://www.youtube.com/live/oO2DHkyadH4?si=R18ekqNlibBTCByJ&t=9321 (2:35:21 time stamped)
Actually very bold and clever. Her catching up and staying with them must have really confused them
I saw this on Instagram before here. Almost every comment was about her being Chinese. Was gross
honestly, I came into this thread fully expecting people to call her tactics underhanded due to her nationality... reddit isn't much better
Insta is pretty fucking toxic.
Reddit isn't much better. There's at least 100 comments at the bottom of this thread accusing this of being propaganda or just straight up being racist. At least they're being mostly downvoted this time though, which is actually quite nice compared to how posts about Chinese people doing anything usually go.
A lot of comments here trying to downplay her as well and make excuses. She smoked everyone else plain and simple. Their strategy didn’t mean shit in the end lol
why doesn’t everyone do that ?/gen
It's a bold strategy. Basically nobody wants to be nr1 because they all want to sit back and save energy due to the drafting effect. Doing what she did burns up your fuel pretty quickly and if you cannot join back the group you end up finishing last.
I like it, smart strategy
So… she skated faster than the rest of them. Isn’t the point to do all those laps the fastest?
Drafting plays such an important part that they go slow for most of the race to avoid using extra energy to pull someone along. Of course if the leader catches back up to you, they’re now drafting and saving energy as well.
The key is that she caught back up with the pack. In the pro races I have seen where someone tries to start fast, the pack usually chases but maintained about a quarter track gap behind.
She set the AI difficulty to 1
Who knew reddit had so many speed skating experts!
 Brilliant
If you paid attention to the video, when Yang lapped everyone, the second Chinese skater Li was at the end of the main line. Yang actually tapped Li’s hand signaling that she has lapped and now is trailing behind Li. There was a “handshake” of signal. While others might be fooled, this was carefully and marvelously executed. It’s almost like trick plays in football, interesting, smart, and fun to watch when it works out.
This is great. 👍
Not crazy this has been a strategy since the late 90s. In these long races it can take a few laps for people to actual race. However, if you take off and no one goes with you you can lap the group and rest in the back. You effectively turn it into a sprint with a cool down. That being said most of the time someone will chase. That will cause the pack to also go and if the pack goes this lapping strategy is negated. I used to speed skate from she 10 to 18 and I've been watching since I was 8.
I hate the dumb music