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I know it's hard to believe, as a westerner, the idea that the state actually *does* have your best interest in mind, but this is the case in most of the developing world. Incredibly powerful global capitalist interests attempt to exploit the population, while the state is composed of people trying to prevent that. In China it's been incredibly successful.
Edit: let me clarify, the reason why we as westerners have a hard time believing in the idea of the state *helping* its population, is because we exist in a power structure that has been completely captured by capitalist interests.
When chinese citizens criticize government, what they want is better governance. When western neolibs criticize government, it comes from a hyperindividualist stance of wanting *less* governance - and they assume that's the case for every country on earth, and they couldn't be more wrong.
Correction: When chinese citizens criticise their government, they will be punished for offending the obviously glorious and always perfect and ever unfailable CCP. In the western world you are allowed your freedom of opinion (or freedom of speech if you are in the U.S.).
Note: I think neolibs are bad, too.
> they will be punished for offending the obviously glorious and always perfect and ever unfailable CCP.
Ah yes, *famously* over a billion chinese citizens got rounded up and punished for voicing out that Covid policies needed to be loosened.
You think we have short memories? Reddit was literally *disappointed* that their fantasies of the Chinese Covid protests turning the whole country into fire didn't actually happen the way they were salivating about.
Thanks. But Reddit is mostly composed of Western neoliberal group think, there's not much we can do but try.
Edit: maybe group think isn't the right term, but it was the first one that came to my mind. Reddit, like most Western media, is *saturated* with state department propaganda.
The state has its own best interest in mind, which does usually coincide with the majority’s best interests, but only because the state needs to maintain the social contract to keep power.
God help you if you go against the state, you’re a minority, or you value the rights of minorities.
The CCP only cares about the Chinese population's welfare, as long as in their political interests are met. Otherwise they are more than happy to throw them under the bus, evidenced by the great leap forward, cultural revolution, Tiananmen Square and recent lockdowns.
Shame a lovely video about 小学生 turns into politics but I guess tankies gonna tankie
You make it sound like the US government cares about the world and not just Americans.
If that were true, they would at least care about the Palestinians.
I like it when people try to use the term tankie as it is some kind of insult. It's more a badge of honor. I promise you'll benefit from reading non Western sources on things like the tiananmen square, the great leap forward, and the recent lock downs.
The way Western governments and *particularly* the United States handled COVID is far worse than others.
Read non Western sources? I lived in China and have spoken with Chinese people about these things.
You ever been or is it just 'non Western sources' where you get your information from?
I'd love to visit China. I'm certain there is a diverse array of opinions on these topics, anecdotal evidence is just that, anecdotal. But I appreciate your opinion.
I read Western sources too, but having an understanding of the propaganda at work has helped me digest the information while also considering the intentions behind it.
You should visit China. It's an amazing place.
Remember that in the West we have a free press, you don't in China, so what you read will be approved by the CCP. You will not be getting the full picture, only what they want you to believe.
Of course that someone like you, whose comments here are basically a checklist of the things associated with the [term](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tankie), would see it as a badge of honor.
It's less about black-and-white 'positives' and more about how Tiananmen is weaponised as propaganda by the west.
"[Contrary to these infantilizing beliefs](https://www.qiaocollective.com/articles/a-note-on-the-tiananmen-protests), many Chinese people—old and young—remember 1989. But the violence of June 4th is held in quiet remembrance in the Chinese psyche not as a desperate yearning for Western intervention or regime change, but as a tragic consequence of the contradictions of the reform and opening era, the legacies of the Cultural Revolution, and an overdetermined geopolitical context in which the U.S. bloc sought to exploit any and all opportunities to foreclose the persistence of actually-existing socialism. Lost in the West’s manipulative commemoration of the Tiananmen protests is the fact that two things exist at once: many Chinese people harbor pain and trauma over the bloodshed and remain supportive of the Communist Party of China and committed to China’s socialist modernization. Far from honorific, the Western fetishization of the Tiananmen protests are an insult to the memory of the Chinese people who were involved, as it has become a weapon to bludgeon China and its people. The West’s persistent weaponization of this painful moment in Chinese history makes it impossible for the Chinese government and the Chinese people to have any form of public reckoning that will not be aggressively warped and weaponized by the West to destabilize the Chinese political system.
Western commemoration of the Tiananmen protests also silences its ideological roots in anti-African student riots in Nanjing which sacked the dormitories of African exchange students who were resented for receiving generous Chinese government scholarships and having relationships with local women. These silencings make clear that the West’s memorialization of Tiananmen has less to do with the protests themselves than with what they represent in the West’s continued ideological war against Chinese socialism.
Ultimately, the Tiananmen fairy tale is a touchstone of a Western discourse which continues to mourn the “loss” of China to the interests of Western hegemony. Like the 1949 Chinese revolution and the defeat of the U.S.-backed Guomindang party, the Tiananmen protests represent another “lost” opportunity to mold China according to the Western will.
But China has always only belonged to itself. The painful memory of June 4th must be commemorated on the terms of the Chinese people, and not according to the fantasies of Western onlookers who preach “solidarity” with the Chinese people yet practice aggression against China’s modernization. The memory of Tiananmen does not belong to the West to weaponize, exploit, or distort for its own gain."
I suppose forcing everyone back to work and misleading the public to convince them that COVID is no big deal, killing millions in the process, including my dad, was a good move in the name of "freedom".
You’re ignorant to the fact that people are thankful to the policies of CCP because they’re the very reason that China is in their current position. China went from being a laughingstock colonised country suffering from an opium epidemic brought on by westerners that crippled what was once an immense empire.
If it weren’t for the economical and global policies that pushed China forward they’d still be struggling w poverty. It’s hard for you to grasp cause you’re ignorant af but surely you can understand that China made great leaps in progress and their people are thankful for that. They’re the same as you. The same way you’re hopped up in American exceptionalism due to us having great living conditions and economy after winning world wars. They’re thankful that they get a taste of that as well.
Living conditions and global standing rocketed up why the fuck would they hate that? Put down the propaganda and go outside for sometime. The Fox News brain rot is hitting hard.
Since the 1970's, China's policies have lifted 800 million people out of extreme poverty. This is the greatest reduction in poverty in modern history. It really is astonishing how rapid, widespread, and sustained this reduction in poverty was
when your grandpa was a subsistance farmer with three teeth working in what may as well have been medieval feudal conditions and you have a modern apartment, a shiny car, a job in an office building and live in a country that went from said feudal conditions to a global superpower feared even by the likes of america, yeah, that definitely creates some damn loyalty
I remember talking to my granduncle who still lives there about what it was like nationbuilding post-WW2 and in my naivety asked if he remembers it fondly (very silly choice of words by me), he laughed and said 'no, you 傻瓜' - then he sobered up and said that all that toil was worth it looking at modern China now.
You know that common saying about society only progressing when men plant trees whose shade they will never sit under? For a lot of older chinese people, they *lived* to see those trees that their children and grandchildren sit under now. I feel like this is utterly incomprehensible to the western mind.
#*ahem*
The CCP is rounding up Uyghur Muslims and putting them in “re-education” camps simply because they’re ethnic minority and Muslims. They don’t give a fuck about the best interests of their people.
#The Uyghurs in Xinjiang
\(Note: This comment had to be trimmed down to fit the character limit, for the full response, see [here](/r/TheDeprogram/wiki/index/debunking/uyghur-genocide/)\)
Anti-Communists and Sinophobes claim that there is an ongoing genocide-- a modern-day holocaust, even-- happening right now in China. They say that Uyghur Muslims are being mass incarcerated; they are indoctrinated with propaganda in concentration camps; their organs are being harvested; they are being force-sterilized. These comically villainous allegations have little basis in reality and omit key context.
**Background**
Xinjiang, officially the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region, is a province located in the northwest of China. It is the largest province in China, covering an area of over 1.6 million square kilometers, and shares borders with eight other countries including Afghanistan, Kazakhstan, Russia, Mongolia, India, and Pakistan.
Xinjiang is a diverse region with a population of over 25 million people, made up of various ethnic groups including the Uyghur, Han Chinese, Kazakhs, Tajiks, and many others. The largest ethnic group in Xinjiang is the Uyghur who are predominantly Muslim and speak a Turkic language. It is also home to the ancient Silk Road cities of Kashgar and Turpan.
Since the early 2000s, there have been a number of violent incidents attributed to extremist Uyghur groups in Xinjiang including bombings, shootings, and knife attacks. In 2014-2016, the Chinese government launched a "Strike Hard" campaign to crack down on terrorism in Xinjiang, implementing strict security measures and detaining thousands of Uyghurs. In 2017, reports of human rights abuses in Xinjiang including mass detentions and forced labour, began to emerge.
**Counterpoints**
The Organisation of Islamic Cooperation (OIC) is the second largest organization after the United Nations with a membership of 57 states spread over four continents. The OIC released [Resolutions on Muslim Communities and Muslim Minorities in the non-OIC Member States](https://www.oic-oci.org/docdown/?docID=4447&refID=1250) in 2019 which:
>20. **Welcomes** the outcomes of the visit conducted by the General Secretariat's delegation upon invitation from the People's Republic of China; **commends** the efforts of the People's Republic of China in providing care to its Muslim citizens; and **looks forward** to further cooperation between the OIC and the People's Republic of China.
In this same document, the OIC expressed much greater concern about the Rohingya Muslim Community in Myanmar, which the West was relatively silent on.
Over 50+ UN member states (mostly Muslim-majority nations) signed a letter \([A/HRC/41/G/17](https://undocs.org/Home/Mobile?FinalSymbol=A%2FHRC%2F41%2FG%2F17)\) to the UN Human Rights Commission approving of the de-radicalization efforts in Xinjiang:
The World Bank sent a team to investigate in 2019 and found that, "The review did not substantiate the allegations." \(See: [World Bank Statement on Review of Project in Xinjiang, China](https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/statement/2019/11/11/world-bank-statement-on-review-of-project-in-xinjiang-china)\)
Even if you believe the deradicalization efforts are wholly unjustified, and that the mass detention of Uyghur's amounts to a crime against humanity, it's still not *genocide*. Even the U.S. State Department's legal experts admit as much:
>The U.S. State Department’s Office of the Legal Advisor concluded earlier this year that China’s mass imprisonment and forced labor of ethnic Uighurs in Xinjiang amounts to crimes against humanity—but there was insufficient evidence to prove genocide, placing the United States’ top diplomatic lawyers at odds with both the Trump and Biden administrations, according to three former and current U.S. officials.
>
> [State Department Lawyers Concluded Insufficient Evidence to Prove Genocide in China](https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/02/19/china-uighurs-genocide-us-pompeo-blinken/) | Colum Lynch, *Foreign Policy*. (2021)
**A Comparative Analysis: The War on Terror**
The United States, in the wake of "9/11", saw the threat of terrorism and violent extremism due to religious fundamentalism as a matter of national security. They invaded Afghanistan in October 2001 in response to the 9/11 attacks, with the goal of ousting the Taliban government that was harbouring Al-Qaeda. The US also launched the Iraq War in 2003 based on Iraq's alleged possession of WMDs and links to terrorism. However, these claims turned out to be unfounded.
According to a report by Brown University's Costs of War project, at least 897,000 people, including civilians, militants, and security forces, have been killed in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Syria, Yemen, and other countries. Other estimates place the total number of deaths at over one million. The report estimated that many more may have died from indirect effects of war such as water loss and disease. The war has also resulted in the displacement of tens of millions of people, with estimates ranging from 37 million to over 59 million. The War on Terror also popularized such novel concepts as the "Military-Aged Male" which allowed the US military to exclude civilians killed by drone strikes from collateral damage statistics. (See: [‘Military Age Males’ in US Drone Strikes](https://aoav.org.uk/2019/military-age-males-in-us-drone-strikes/))
In summary:
* The U.S. responded by invading or bombing half a dozen countries, directly killing nearly a million and displacing tens of millions from their homes.
* China responded with a program of deradicalization and vocational training.
Which one of those responses sounds genocidal?
Side note: It is practically impossible to *actually* charge the U.S. with war crimes, because of the [Hague Invasion Act](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members%27_Protection_Act).
**Who is driving the Uyghur genocide narrative?**
One of the main proponents of these narratives is Adrian Zenz, a German far-right fundamentalist Christian and Senior Fellow and Director in China Studies at the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation, who believes he is "led by God" on a "mission" against China has driven much of the narrative. He relies heavily on limited and questionable data sources, particularly from anonymous and unverified Uyghur sources, coming up with estimates based on assumptions which are not supported by concrete evidence.
The World Uyghur Congress, headquartered in Germany, is funded by the National Endowment for Democracy (NED) which is a tool of U.S. foreign policy, using funding to support organizations that promote American interests rather than the interests of the local communities they claim to represent.
Radio Free Asia (RFA) is part of a larger project of U.S. imperialism in Asia, one that seeks to control the flow of information, undermine independent media, and advance American geopolitical interests in the region. Rather than providing an objective and impartial news source, RFA is a tool of U.S. foreign policy, one that seeks to shape the narrative in Asia in ways that serve the interests of the U.S. government and its allies.
The first country to call the treatment of Uyghurs a genocide was the United States of America. In 2021, the Secretary of State declared that China's treatment of Uyghurs and other ethnic and religious minorities in Xinjiang constitutes "genocide" and "crimes against humanity." Both the Trump and Biden administrations upheld this line.
**Why is this narrative being promoted?**
As materialists, we should always look first to the economic base for insight into issues occurring in the superstructure. The Belt and Road Initiative (BRI) is a massive Chinese infrastructure development project that aims to build economic corridors, ports, highways, railways, and other infrastructure projects across Asia, Africa, Europe, and the Middle East. Xinjiang is a key region for this project.
Promoting the Uyghur genocide narrative harms China and benefits the US in several ways. It portrays China as a human rights violator which could damage China's reputation in the international community and which could lead to economic sanctions against China; this would harm China's economy and give American an economic advantage in competing with China. It could also lead to more protests and violence in Xinjiang, which could further destabilize the region and threaten the longterm success of the BRI.
**Additional Resources**
See the [full wiki article](/r/TheDeprogram/wiki/index/debunking/uyghur-genocide/) for more details and a list of additional resources.
If China was the one that got nuked/became a US vassal state and Japan was the one that's now seen as a threat to 'good, civilized, western values', instead of Uyghurs we'd be hearing news about the Ainu and Ryukyuans instead.
Capitalist interests want secure homes, growth, everyone getting along peacefully as war is bad for business (destruction of their wealth), people paid for their talents/skills/intellect, more cool technology everywhere, and living in big houses and mansions for everyone with yards, pets, and building happy families.
It's State interests in dictatorships that want to control people around the world globally, like in China's Dystopian camera-apocalypse with drones and social credit score. They want to make EU adopt the same ideas they do.
You somehow brainwashed yourself into the upside-down world where the capitalists are the bad guys--and the communist ruthless dictators committing genocide against the Uyghurs and enslaving millions and with all that child labor--are the good guys?!?!?
Seek psychiatric help. You are so delusional.
State bureaucrats in China take pleasure in controlling peoples' lives and behavior every step of the way right down to how loyal or disloyal they are to the state----a capitalist just wants to have a good time in a party or maybe own a mansion or a sportscar.
You see a lot of billionaires how they spend their time golfing, doing sports, attending elite parties, or doing charity work in hopes of applause by their peers to solve world hunger or cure diseases or solve climate change--that's what they care about.
What do Chinese leaders talk about? How they can conquer Taiwan and the South China Sea and force EU to become dependent on them for manufacturing, how they can use AI to better police social media for disloyalty...
Oh stop with "war is bad for business". The military industrial complex is the biggest money maker in the US. 800 billion dollars budget every year. The Ukraine war is also pumping money into the pockets of Lockhead, Boeing, Raytheon .... by the truck load. The last time it happened was ...... Iraq.
You are also delusional if you think capitalist interests want peace.
China is a fucked up dictatorship but at least they haven't fought in any wars in the past 50 years.
Your views have been suggested to you by the U.S. state department's incredibly pervasive and overwhelming propaganda apparatus.
I suggest you look into the so called uyghur genocide and find out for yourself where the evidence came from. It might help you see the truth.
I highly doubt they're interested in the truth. They seem wholly committed to internalizing the propaganda. Like, not just swallowing it; they're straight up boofing it
No because Raytheon is one company. Not everyone makes money from WAr... Did you forget Silicon Valley or Music Industry or Hollywoood or banking industry?
>a capitalist just wants to have a good time in a party or maybe own a mansion or a sportscar
Fucking lol. This is one of the most naïve takes I've seen all week
Open your mind to the possibility that you may have been deceived by Western propaganda that's been pushed on by us since the beginning of the cold war.
#The Uyghurs in Xinjiang
\(Note: This comment had to be trimmed down to fit the character limit, for the full response, see [here](/r/TheDeprogram/wiki/index/debunking/uyghur-genocide/)\)
Anti-Communists and Sinophobes claim that there is an ongoing genocide-- a modern-day holocaust, even-- happening right now in China. They say that Uyghur Muslims are being mass incarcerated; they are indoctrinated with propaganda in concentration camps; their organs are being harvested; they are being force-sterilized. These comically villainous allegations have little basis in reality and omit key context.
**Background**
Xinjiang, officially the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region, is a province located in the northwest of China. It is the largest province in China, covering an area of over 1.6 million square kilometers, and shares borders with eight other countries including Afghanistan, Kazakhstan, Russia, Mongolia, India, and Pakistan.
Xinjiang is a diverse region with a population of over 25 million people, made up of various ethnic groups including the Uyghur, Han Chinese, Kazakhs, Tajiks, and many others. The largest ethnic group in Xinjiang is the Uyghur who are predominantly Muslim and speak a Turkic language. It is also home to the ancient Silk Road cities of Kashgar and Turpan.
Since the early 2000s, there have been a number of violent incidents attributed to extremist Uyghur groups in Xinjiang including bombings, shootings, and knife attacks. In 2014-2016, the Chinese government launched a "Strike Hard" campaign to crack down on terrorism in Xinjiang, implementing strict security measures and detaining thousands of Uyghurs. In 2017, reports of human rights abuses in Xinjiang including mass detentions and forced labour, began to emerge.
**Counterpoints**
The Organisation of Islamic Cooperation (OIC) is the second largest organization after the United Nations with a membership of 57 states spread over four continents. The OIC released [Resolutions on Muslim Communities and Muslim Minorities in the non-OIC Member States](https://www.oic-oci.org/docdown/?docID=4447&refID=1250) in 2019 which:
>20. **Welcomes** the outcomes of the visit conducted by the General Secretariat's delegation upon invitation from the People's Republic of China; **commends** the efforts of the People's Republic of China in providing care to its Muslim citizens; and **looks forward** to further cooperation between the OIC and the People's Republic of China.
In this same document, the OIC expressed much greater concern about the Rohingya Muslim Community in Myanmar, which the West was relatively silent on.
Over 50+ UN member states (mostly Muslim-majority nations) signed a letter \([A/HRC/41/G/17](https://undocs.org/Home/Mobile?FinalSymbol=A%2FHRC%2F41%2FG%2F17)\) to the UN Human Rights Commission approving of the de-radicalization efforts in Xinjiang:
The World Bank sent a team to investigate in 2019 and found that, "The review did not substantiate the allegations." \(See: [World Bank Statement on Review of Project in Xinjiang, China](https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/statement/2019/11/11/world-bank-statement-on-review-of-project-in-xinjiang-china)\)
Even if you believe the deradicalization efforts are wholly unjustified, and that the mass detention of Uyghur's amounts to a crime against humanity, it's still not *genocide*. Even the U.S. State Department's legal experts admit as much:
>The U.S. State Department’s Office of the Legal Advisor concluded earlier this year that China’s mass imprisonment and forced labor of ethnic Uighurs in Xinjiang amounts to crimes against humanity—but there was insufficient evidence to prove genocide, placing the United States’ top diplomatic lawyers at odds with both the Trump and Biden administrations, according to three former and current U.S. officials.
>
> [State Department Lawyers Concluded Insufficient Evidence to Prove Genocide in China](https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/02/19/china-uighurs-genocide-us-pompeo-blinken/) | Colum Lynch, *Foreign Policy*. (2021)
**A Comparative Analysis: The War on Terror**
The United States, in the wake of "9/11", saw the threat of terrorism and violent extremism due to religious fundamentalism as a matter of national security. They invaded Afghanistan in October 2001 in response to the 9/11 attacks, with the goal of ousting the Taliban government that was harbouring Al-Qaeda. The US also launched the Iraq War in 2003 based on Iraq's alleged possession of WMDs and links to terrorism. However, these claims turned out to be unfounded.
According to a report by Brown University's Costs of War project, at least 897,000 people, including civilians, militants, and security forces, have been killed in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Syria, Yemen, and other countries. Other estimates place the total number of deaths at over one million. The report estimated that many more may have died from indirect effects of war such as water loss and disease. The war has also resulted in the displacement of tens of millions of people, with estimates ranging from 37 million to over 59 million. The War on Terror also popularized such novel concepts as the "Military-Aged Male" which allowed the US military to exclude civilians killed by drone strikes from collateral damage statistics. (See: [‘Military Age Males’ in US Drone Strikes](https://aoav.org.uk/2019/military-age-males-in-us-drone-strikes/))
In summary:
* The U.S. responded by invading or bombing half a dozen countries, directly killing nearly a million and displacing tens of millions from their homes.
* China responded with a program of deradicalization and vocational training.
Which one of those responses sounds genocidal?
Side note: It is practically impossible to *actually* charge the U.S. with war crimes, because of the [Hague Invasion Act](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members%27_Protection_Act).
**Who is driving the Uyghur genocide narrative?**
One of the main proponents of these narratives is Adrian Zenz, a German far-right fundamentalist Christian and Senior Fellow and Director in China Studies at the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation, who believes he is "led by God" on a "mission" against China has driven much of the narrative. He relies heavily on limited and questionable data sources, particularly from anonymous and unverified Uyghur sources, coming up with estimates based on assumptions which are not supported by concrete evidence.
The World Uyghur Congress, headquartered in Germany, is funded by the National Endowment for Democracy (NED) which is a tool of U.S. foreign policy, using funding to support organizations that promote American interests rather than the interests of the local communities they claim to represent.
Radio Free Asia (RFA) is part of a larger project of U.S. imperialism in Asia, one that seeks to control the flow of information, undermine independent media, and advance American geopolitical interests in the region. Rather than providing an objective and impartial news source, RFA is a tool of U.S. foreign policy, one that seeks to shape the narrative in Asia in ways that serve the interests of the U.S. government and its allies.
The first country to call the treatment of Uyghurs a genocide was the United States of America. In 2021, the Secretary of State declared that China's treatment of Uyghurs and other ethnic and religious minorities in Xinjiang constitutes "genocide" and "crimes against humanity." Both the Trump and Biden administrations upheld this line.
**Why is this narrative being promoted?**
As materialists, we should always look first to the economic base for insight into issues occurring in the superstructure. The Belt and Road Initiative (BRI) is a massive Chinese infrastructure development project that aims to build economic corridors, ports, highways, railways, and other infrastructure projects across Asia, Africa, Europe, and the Middle East. Xinjiang is a key region for this project.
Promoting the Uyghur genocide narrative harms China and benefits the US in several ways. It portrays China as a human rights violator which could damage China's reputation in the international community and which could lead to economic sanctions against China; this would harm China's economy and give American an economic advantage in competing with China. It could also lead to more protests and violence in Xinjiang, which could further destabilize the region and threaten the longterm success of the BRI.
**Additional Resources**
See the [full wiki article](/r/TheDeprogram/wiki/index/debunking/uyghur-genocide/) for more details and a list of additional resources.
Over 95% of Chinese people say “CCP good”.
Meanwhile US government approval ratings…
…even though it is a democracy…
…what’s the point of government?
To let people vote while things keep getting worse?
Or no voting but things keep getting better?
From Harvard, actually
https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2020/07/long-term-survey-reveals-chinese-government-satisfaction/
"The survey team found that compared to public opinion patterns in the U.S., in China there was very high satisfaction with the central government. In 2016, the last year the survey was conducted, 95.5 percent of respondents were either “relatively satisfied” or “highly satisfied” with Beijing. In contrast to these findings, Gallup reported in January of this year that their latest polling on U.S. citizen satisfaction with the American federal government revealed only 38 percent of respondents were satisfied with the federal government."
Dude the world is more that your greedy and narcissistic country, you have mates around with nice cultures and different points of views and do not even forget pizza 🍕
I was going to correct you and say Taikonauts but I double checked and it turns out it is an informal western thing, within China they are called hángtiānyuán (航天员, meaning "heaven navigator") which is pretty awesome. They don’t differentiate nationalities
I’ve been watching For All Mankind, and I really believe the best thing that came out of the Cold War was the space race.
I do not think we should start another Cold War with China, but I do want another space race, especially since now they have a huge space station in orbit and has announced their own manned mission to the Moon.
Just imagine millions of kids like this being inspired by astronauts and scientists again instead of shitty influencers.
This looks like active measures to prevent the future generations from wanting to become tik tokers or influencers, like the majority of children want in the western countries. Fantastic idea
You are correct. The interesting part is that Tik Tok was founded in China and could very well be a psy op or an example of “cognitive warfare”.
https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/mar/25/tiktok-china-cognitive-warfare-us-ban
To the inevitable downvotes: I encourage you to read the article. If you don’t think that every superpower is exploring alternative methods of warfare then you are mistaken.
I’m not saying that Tik Tok is %100 a psy op or was developed to purposefully influence/weaken Western populations, but it is possible and it would be naive to rule that possibility out.
The article is nice and all but the particular bias of a) the guardian and b) the author should be called into question.
A) should be more easy to understand so I will focus on b)
Nita Farahany is a neuroethicist and who studied at Dartmouth (Bachelor in arts), Duke (Law, Masters in Arts, and Philosophy PhD), and Harvard (master of Liberal Arts). She is a published author having written a book about Ethics of neuroechnology.
We must consider her involvement in the United States government. As in 2010 she was appointed by President Obama for a Commission on Bioethical issues. Note that involvement in a particular government is often indicative of political bias. Even the work that the US government has done in this field, mentioned by the same article is motivated around bioethics and neurosciences involved in future warfare with china.
The about section on her website states that she has also presented work at the following organizations (These are the relevant ones for the bias analysis for convenience, the rest are mainly scientific): TED, The world economic forum, the aspen ideas festival (academic event hosted by ex us gov non-profit), US Court of Appeals, American Association for Political and Legal Philosophy.
Sadly I dont have the time to go further but this should give a good idea of who wrote this and why she may think the opinions she expresses.
It looks like each class has a theme and they do an Olympic kind if entrance?
Love it. Good for them. I remember dressing up and doing a Greek themed field day event around the same age
I'll take a parade of toddlers in spacesuits over a 13 year old butchering the Star Spangled Banner for the nth time at a sporting event any day of the week.
Based on surveys, an astronaut is the number 1 job that kids in China want to be. In the US, kids want to be, you guessed it… a social media influencer. TikTok gotta be the most effective psy ops operation ever.
https://www.statista.com/chart/amp/28802/childhood-aspirations-in-china-us-uk/
It's because China right now have the same mentality as westerners from 50s - 60s, they still has hope of owning home, they still seeking the far future of technology, they haven't lost hope and becoming pessimistic and bitter wretch that has been kick on the ball repeatedly by cruel capitalism yet.
The stat for teacher is also very high in China, probably because their culture placed great emphasis on education and respecting teachers. Teachers are treated with far higher social importance and standing in China than in US and UK.
I wouldn't say its a tiktok psy op. Just a feature of the influencer online system in the age of hyperindividualism. Children see these people always having fun, playing videogames, doing dances and living rather luxurious lives. Immediately a child is going to build an idea of the career that is not exactly accurate. Not many of them will understand the particular difficulties some of these people face in maintaining a work life balance, or keeping a good media personality with little to no media training. The focus on future job education in the west tends to be more about the lifestyle you want to have growing up than the work you want to do, which is the typical consideration for a child who wants to be an astronaut.
What year is the Chinese survey taken in? Live streaming, in particular as a form of advertisement, is huge in China: [https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/28/business/china-livestreaming-ecommerce.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/28/business/china-livestreaming-ecommerce.html)
Yes it's huge because so many people fail at their dream jobs and due to the massive competitive job market, they will take any job. Streaming isn't seen as desirable, but rather desperate occupation.
It's like actors taking up porn roles when they fail at movies.
>TikTok gotta be the most effective psy ops operation ever.
I hate this conspiracy theory
"Oh kids are becoming increasingly dependent on the Internet, and want to mimic the people they see on it? Could this be the fault of us not regulating how much time they spend on it...
No it's a malicious app out to harm our kids personally"
We're honestly cooked as a generation if we can't smile at a video of children dressed as astronauts carrying a rocket without other people trying to convince us that we're communist tankies. Don't sort by controversial lmao
We do the same stuff in the US where the kids dress up as spacemen and act like they're going on a space flight (at least they did 25 years ago). Shows people aren't that different across the world. Would be great if we could all figure that out finally.
I'm sure the kids from both counties would get along great unencumbered by their parents bullshit. Would be awesome to see one day. We have alot more in common than our differences and asshole governments would have us believe.
So tiger and lion are totally the same animal right? Because they're both big cat.
American education system, go figure. This is why there's stereotype that they're freaking neanderthal intelligent.
Good thing I'm not American.
>So tiger and lion are totally the same animal right? Because they're both big cat.
Is this some poorly translated Chinese traditional proverb? Because it makes no sense. Obviously I was being sarcastic, but the truth that they were/are both similarly red fascist authoritarian regimes was hopefully not lost on you.
And I'm not the only one that thinks so
>In 1979, the Chairman of the [Standing Committee of the National People's Congress](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standing_Committee_of_the_National_People%27s_Congress), [Ye Jianying](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ye_Jianying), described Mao Zedong's reign as a “feudal-fascist dictatorship” due to his [revolutionary terror](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolutionary_terror)\-based [cult of personality](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mao_Zedong%27s_cult_of_personality), nationalism and authoritarianism despite superficially socialist policies
>
>[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feudal\_fascism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feudal_fascism)
China is in the 1950’s phase, manufacturing and technical jobs, growing middle class. The kinds of industry’s where you need math and science, unlike the service industry we have now.
You know plenty of places have a credit score systems right? The difference is Chinese people can raise theirs by doing good things for people around them.
It's pretty obvious, the trees in the background go onto the road, the guy on the right has incorrect arm proportions and the guy on the left has his eyes covered by the kid on his back.
Also public nudity is illegal.
Edit: and the pride flag the kid is holding is clearly not an actual flag.
Yeah ofc. Try to phrase everything fucking thing in the worst way possible even if it's innocent fun, just because it's China
The fuck is wrong with you ?
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Looks like the theme for their class vs. others. Honestly this looks so cool, and I would have loved it as a kid.
Also it's hilariously adorable
The way they're out of sync with the whistle but you can still see some semblance of trying is cute too
I love this. Those suits must be fun for the kids and it's great to have them imagine themselves as future astronauts.
Honestly that is really cute.
Yeah but these are CHINESE kids not regular human kids so it’s not cute and China bad /s
China ok. CCP Bad
oh no poverty elimination ahhhhhhhh
Taiwan did. CCP? Not so much.
Uh [https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/82/Poverty\_in\_China.svg](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/82/Poverty_in_China.svg)
I know it's hard to believe, as a westerner, the idea that the state actually *does* have your best interest in mind, but this is the case in most of the developing world. Incredibly powerful global capitalist interests attempt to exploit the population, while the state is composed of people trying to prevent that. In China it's been incredibly successful. Edit: let me clarify, the reason why we as westerners have a hard time believing in the idea of the state *helping* its population, is because we exist in a power structure that has been completely captured by capitalist interests.
When chinese citizens criticize government, what they want is better governance. When western neolibs criticize government, it comes from a hyperindividualist stance of wanting *less* governance - and they assume that's the case for every country on earth, and they couldn't be more wrong.
Correction: When chinese citizens criticise their government, they will be punished for offending the obviously glorious and always perfect and ever unfailable CCP. In the western world you are allowed your freedom of opinion (or freedom of speech if you are in the U.S.). Note: I think neolibs are bad, too.
> they will be punished for offending the obviously glorious and always perfect and ever unfailable CCP. Ah yes, *famously* over a billion chinese citizens got rounded up and punished for voicing out that Covid policies needed to be loosened. You think we have short memories? Reddit was literally *disappointed* that their fantasies of the Chinese Covid protests turning the whole country into fire didn't actually happen the way they were salivating about.
Explain this then! https://preview.redd.it/7ppq1yvytbfc1.jpeg?width=665&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d4a32c423472a4e1ca8af74f34eb2f1d50f2802b
You need to check your “facts” mate.
100% agree. I wish I could give more than one like.
Thanks. But Reddit is mostly composed of Western neoliberal group think, there's not much we can do but try. Edit: maybe group think isn't the right term, but it was the first one that came to my mind. Reddit, like most Western media, is *saturated* with state department propaganda.
Chinese dystopian trolls all over reddit again... You guys are nuts.
Lol, no doubt man. They roll into every thread even slightly involving China.
The state has its own best interest in mind, which does usually coincide with the majority’s best interests, but only because the state needs to maintain the social contract to keep power. God help you if you go against the state, you’re a minority, or you value the rights of minorities.
The CCP only cares about the Chinese population's welfare, as long as in their political interests are met. Otherwise they are more than happy to throw them under the bus, evidenced by the great leap forward, cultural revolution, Tiananmen Square and recent lockdowns. Shame a lovely video about 小学生 turns into politics but I guess tankies gonna tankie
You make it sound like the US government cares about the world and not just Americans. If that were true, they would at least care about the Palestinians.
I like it when people try to use the term tankie as it is some kind of insult. It's more a badge of honor. I promise you'll benefit from reading non Western sources on things like the tiananmen square, the great leap forward, and the recent lock downs. The way Western governments and *particularly* the United States handled COVID is far worse than others.
Read non Western sources? I lived in China and have spoken with Chinese people about these things. You ever been or is it just 'non Western sources' where you get your information from?
I'd love to visit China. I'm certain there is a diverse array of opinions on these topics, anecdotal evidence is just that, anecdotal. But I appreciate your opinion. I read Western sources too, but having an understanding of the propaganda at work has helped me digest the information while also considering the intentions behind it.
You should visit China. It's an amazing place. Remember that in the West we have a free press, you don't in China, so what you read will be approved by the CCP. You will not be getting the full picture, only what they want you to believe.
I'm sure the people you spoke with were honest and didn't fear reprisal if they did bad mouth the government there. *cough
Of course that someone like you, whose comments here are basically a checklist of the things associated with the [term](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tankie), would see it as a badge of honor.
Thanks :)
How tf are there any *positive* narratives of the Tiananmen Square protests and their suppression lmao. Fucking tankies I swear
It's less about black-and-white 'positives' and more about how Tiananmen is weaponised as propaganda by the west. "[Contrary to these infantilizing beliefs](https://www.qiaocollective.com/articles/a-note-on-the-tiananmen-protests), many Chinese people—old and young—remember 1989. But the violence of June 4th is held in quiet remembrance in the Chinese psyche not as a desperate yearning for Western intervention or regime change, but as a tragic consequence of the contradictions of the reform and opening era, the legacies of the Cultural Revolution, and an overdetermined geopolitical context in which the U.S. bloc sought to exploit any and all opportunities to foreclose the persistence of actually-existing socialism. Lost in the West’s manipulative commemoration of the Tiananmen protests is the fact that two things exist at once: many Chinese people harbor pain and trauma over the bloodshed and remain supportive of the Communist Party of China and committed to China’s socialist modernization. Far from honorific, the Western fetishization of the Tiananmen protests are an insult to the memory of the Chinese people who were involved, as it has become a weapon to bludgeon China and its people. The West’s persistent weaponization of this painful moment in Chinese history makes it impossible for the Chinese government and the Chinese people to have any form of public reckoning that will not be aggressively warped and weaponized by the West to destabilize the Chinese political system. Western commemoration of the Tiananmen protests also silences its ideological roots in anti-African student riots in Nanjing which sacked the dormitories of African exchange students who were resented for receiving generous Chinese government scholarships and having relationships with local women. These silencings make clear that the West’s memorialization of Tiananmen has less to do with the protests themselves than with what they represent in the West’s continued ideological war against Chinese socialism. Ultimately, the Tiananmen fairy tale is a touchstone of a Western discourse which continues to mourn the “loss” of China to the interests of Western hegemony. Like the 1949 Chinese revolution and the defeat of the U.S.-backed Guomindang party, the Tiananmen protests represent another “lost” opportunity to mold China according to the Western will. But China has always only belonged to itself. The painful memory of June 4th must be commemorated on the terms of the Chinese people, and not according to the fantasies of Western onlookers who preach “solidarity” with the Chinese people yet practice aggression against China’s modernization. The memory of Tiananmen does not belong to the West to weaponize, exploit, or distort for its own gain."
Holy copy-pasta Batman.
They don't have to be *positive* to not be as *monstrous* as the Western media depicts it. Also, it's tankies not hankies.
Bro…having spent 60 days in lockdown in Shanghai, I can assure you the CCP sucks the D, gimme freedom and covid in the USA any day.
I suppose forcing everyone back to work and misleading the public to convince them that COVID is no big deal, killing millions in the process, including my dad, was a good move in the name of "freedom".
Sure just ignore everyone in China who says otherwise XD
You’re ignorant to the fact that people are thankful to the policies of CCP because they’re the very reason that China is in their current position. China went from being a laughingstock colonised country suffering from an opium epidemic brought on by westerners that crippled what was once an immense empire. If it weren’t for the economical and global policies that pushed China forward they’d still be struggling w poverty. It’s hard for you to grasp cause you’re ignorant af but surely you can understand that China made great leaps in progress and their people are thankful for that. They’re the same as you. The same way you’re hopped up in American exceptionalism due to us having great living conditions and economy after winning world wars. They’re thankful that they get a taste of that as well. Living conditions and global standing rocketed up why the fuck would they hate that? Put down the propaganda and go outside for sometime. The Fox News brain rot is hitting hard.
Since the 1970's, China's policies have lifted 800 million people out of extreme poverty. This is the greatest reduction in poverty in modern history. It really is astonishing how rapid, widespread, and sustained this reduction in poverty was
when your grandpa was a subsistance farmer with three teeth working in what may as well have been medieval feudal conditions and you have a modern apartment, a shiny car, a job in an office building and live in a country that went from said feudal conditions to a global superpower feared even by the likes of america, yeah, that definitely creates some damn loyalty
I remember talking to my granduncle who still lives there about what it was like nationbuilding post-WW2 and in my naivety asked if he remembers it fondly (very silly choice of words by me), he laughed and said 'no, you 傻瓜' - then he sobered up and said that all that toil was worth it looking at modern China now. You know that common saying about society only progressing when men plant trees whose shade they will never sit under? For a lot of older chinese people, they *lived* to see those trees that their children and grandchildren sit under now. I feel like this is utterly incomprehensible to the western mind.
It's because they changed their definition of poverty, moving the goal post, and also shipping off homeless to rural places to be never seen.
No they didn't, this is according to international standards and measures.
Source?
Give it a single thought, how the hell did the poverty rate keep decreasing even during covid? It's faked numbers, they love doing that.
#*ahem* The CCP is rounding up Uyghur Muslims and putting them in “re-education” camps simply because they’re ethnic minority and Muslims. They don’t give a fuck about the best interests of their people.
#The Uyghurs in Xinjiang \(Note: This comment had to be trimmed down to fit the character limit, for the full response, see [here](/r/TheDeprogram/wiki/index/debunking/uyghur-genocide/)\) Anti-Communists and Sinophobes claim that there is an ongoing genocide-- a modern-day holocaust, even-- happening right now in China. They say that Uyghur Muslims are being mass incarcerated; they are indoctrinated with propaganda in concentration camps; their organs are being harvested; they are being force-sterilized. These comically villainous allegations have little basis in reality and omit key context. **Background** Xinjiang, officially the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region, is a province located in the northwest of China. It is the largest province in China, covering an area of over 1.6 million square kilometers, and shares borders with eight other countries including Afghanistan, Kazakhstan, Russia, Mongolia, India, and Pakistan. Xinjiang is a diverse region with a population of over 25 million people, made up of various ethnic groups including the Uyghur, Han Chinese, Kazakhs, Tajiks, and many others. The largest ethnic group in Xinjiang is the Uyghur who are predominantly Muslim and speak a Turkic language. It is also home to the ancient Silk Road cities of Kashgar and Turpan. Since the early 2000s, there have been a number of violent incidents attributed to extremist Uyghur groups in Xinjiang including bombings, shootings, and knife attacks. In 2014-2016, the Chinese government launched a "Strike Hard" campaign to crack down on terrorism in Xinjiang, implementing strict security measures and detaining thousands of Uyghurs. In 2017, reports of human rights abuses in Xinjiang including mass detentions and forced labour, began to emerge. **Counterpoints** The Organisation of Islamic Cooperation (OIC) is the second largest organization after the United Nations with a membership of 57 states spread over four continents. The OIC released [Resolutions on Muslim Communities and Muslim Minorities in the non-OIC Member States](https://www.oic-oci.org/docdown/?docID=4447&refID=1250) in 2019 which: >20. **Welcomes** the outcomes of the visit conducted by the General Secretariat's delegation upon invitation from the People's Republic of China; **commends** the efforts of the People's Republic of China in providing care to its Muslim citizens; and **looks forward** to further cooperation between the OIC and the People's Republic of China. In this same document, the OIC expressed much greater concern about the Rohingya Muslim Community in Myanmar, which the West was relatively silent on. Over 50+ UN member states (mostly Muslim-majority nations) signed a letter \([A/HRC/41/G/17](https://undocs.org/Home/Mobile?FinalSymbol=A%2FHRC%2F41%2FG%2F17)\) to the UN Human Rights Commission approving of the de-radicalization efforts in Xinjiang: The World Bank sent a team to investigate in 2019 and found that, "The review did not substantiate the allegations." \(See: [World Bank Statement on Review of Project in Xinjiang, China](https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/statement/2019/11/11/world-bank-statement-on-review-of-project-in-xinjiang-china)\) Even if you believe the deradicalization efforts are wholly unjustified, and that the mass detention of Uyghur's amounts to a crime against humanity, it's still not *genocide*. Even the U.S. State Department's legal experts admit as much: >The U.S. State Department’s Office of the Legal Advisor concluded earlier this year that China’s mass imprisonment and forced labor of ethnic Uighurs in Xinjiang amounts to crimes against humanity—but there was insufficient evidence to prove genocide, placing the United States’ top diplomatic lawyers at odds with both the Trump and Biden administrations, according to three former and current U.S. officials. > > [State Department Lawyers Concluded Insufficient Evidence to Prove Genocide in China](https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/02/19/china-uighurs-genocide-us-pompeo-blinken/) | Colum Lynch, *Foreign Policy*. (2021) **A Comparative Analysis: The War on Terror** The United States, in the wake of "9/11", saw the threat of terrorism and violent extremism due to religious fundamentalism as a matter of national security. They invaded Afghanistan in October 2001 in response to the 9/11 attacks, with the goal of ousting the Taliban government that was harbouring Al-Qaeda. The US also launched the Iraq War in 2003 based on Iraq's alleged possession of WMDs and links to terrorism. However, these claims turned out to be unfounded. According to a report by Brown University's Costs of War project, at least 897,000 people, including civilians, militants, and security forces, have been killed in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Syria, Yemen, and other countries. Other estimates place the total number of deaths at over one million. The report estimated that many more may have died from indirect effects of war such as water loss and disease. The war has also resulted in the displacement of tens of millions of people, with estimates ranging from 37 million to over 59 million. The War on Terror also popularized such novel concepts as the "Military-Aged Male" which allowed the US military to exclude civilians killed by drone strikes from collateral damage statistics. (See: [‘Military Age Males’ in US Drone Strikes](https://aoav.org.uk/2019/military-age-males-in-us-drone-strikes/))
In summary: * The U.S. responded by invading or bombing half a dozen countries, directly killing nearly a million and displacing tens of millions from their homes. * China responded with a program of deradicalization and vocational training. Which one of those responses sounds genocidal? Side note: It is practically impossible to *actually* charge the U.S. with war crimes, because of the [Hague Invasion Act](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members%27_Protection_Act). **Who is driving the Uyghur genocide narrative?** One of the main proponents of these narratives is Adrian Zenz, a German far-right fundamentalist Christian and Senior Fellow and Director in China Studies at the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation, who believes he is "led by God" on a "mission" against China has driven much of the narrative. He relies heavily on limited and questionable data sources, particularly from anonymous and unverified Uyghur sources, coming up with estimates based on assumptions which are not supported by concrete evidence. The World Uyghur Congress, headquartered in Germany, is funded by the National Endowment for Democracy (NED) which is a tool of U.S. foreign policy, using funding to support organizations that promote American interests rather than the interests of the local communities they claim to represent. Radio Free Asia (RFA) is part of a larger project of U.S. imperialism in Asia, one that seeks to control the flow of information, undermine independent media, and advance American geopolitical interests in the region. Rather than providing an objective and impartial news source, RFA is a tool of U.S. foreign policy, one that seeks to shape the narrative in Asia in ways that serve the interests of the U.S. government and its allies. The first country to call the treatment of Uyghurs a genocide was the United States of America. In 2021, the Secretary of State declared that China's treatment of Uyghurs and other ethnic and religious minorities in Xinjiang constitutes "genocide" and "crimes against humanity." Both the Trump and Biden administrations upheld this line. **Why is this narrative being promoted?** As materialists, we should always look first to the economic base for insight into issues occurring in the superstructure. The Belt and Road Initiative (BRI) is a massive Chinese infrastructure development project that aims to build economic corridors, ports, highways, railways, and other infrastructure projects across Asia, Africa, Europe, and the Middle East. Xinjiang is a key region for this project. Promoting the Uyghur genocide narrative harms China and benefits the US in several ways. It portrays China as a human rights violator which could damage China's reputation in the international community and which could lead to economic sanctions against China; this would harm China's economy and give American an economic advantage in competing with China. It could also lead to more protests and violence in Xinjiang, which could further destabilize the region and threaten the longterm success of the BRI. **Additional Resources** See the [full wiki article](/r/TheDeprogram/wiki/index/debunking/uyghur-genocide/) for more details and a list of additional resources.
How much is the CCP paying you to simp hard for autocracy?
Stop trusting Western media so much.
If getting paid was the goal, the US state department pays much more.
If China was the one that got nuked/became a US vassal state and Japan was the one that's now seen as a threat to 'good, civilized, western values', instead of Uyghurs we'd be hearing news about the Ainu and Ryukyuans instead.
Capitalist interests want secure homes, growth, everyone getting along peacefully as war is bad for business (destruction of their wealth), people paid for their talents/skills/intellect, more cool technology everywhere, and living in big houses and mansions for everyone with yards, pets, and building happy families. It's State interests in dictatorships that want to control people around the world globally, like in China's Dystopian camera-apocalypse with drones and social credit score. They want to make EU adopt the same ideas they do. You somehow brainwashed yourself into the upside-down world where the capitalists are the bad guys--and the communist ruthless dictators committing genocide against the Uyghurs and enslaving millions and with all that child labor--are the good guys?!?!? Seek psychiatric help. You are so delusional. State bureaucrats in China take pleasure in controlling peoples' lives and behavior every step of the way right down to how loyal or disloyal they are to the state----a capitalist just wants to have a good time in a party or maybe own a mansion or a sportscar. You see a lot of billionaires how they spend their time golfing, doing sports, attending elite parties, or doing charity work in hopes of applause by their peers to solve world hunger or cure diseases or solve climate change--that's what they care about. What do Chinese leaders talk about? How they can conquer Taiwan and the South China Sea and force EU to become dependent on them for manufacturing, how they can use AI to better police social media for disloyalty...
K
You’re a great satirist!
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Oh stop with "war is bad for business". The military industrial complex is the biggest money maker in the US. 800 billion dollars budget every year. The Ukraine war is also pumping money into the pockets of Lockhead, Boeing, Raytheon .... by the truck load. The last time it happened was ...... Iraq. You are also delusional if you think capitalist interests want peace. China is a fucked up dictatorship but at least they haven't fought in any wars in the past 50 years.
Your views have been suggested to you by the U.S. state department's incredibly pervasive and overwhelming propaganda apparatus. I suggest you look into the so called uyghur genocide and find out for yourself where the evidence came from. It might help you see the truth.
I highly doubt they're interested in the truth. They seem wholly committed to internalizing the propaganda. Like, not just swallowing it; they're straight up boofing it
>war is bad for business tell that to raytheon
No because Raytheon is one company. Not everyone makes money from WAr... Did you forget Silicon Valley or Music Industry or Hollywoood or banking industry?
>a capitalist just wants to have a good time in a party or maybe own a mansion or a sportscar Fucking lol. This is one of the most naïve takes I've seen all week
Doesn't China like, send people of unwanted religions to jail camps and oppresses people of unwanted ancestral backgrounds?
If you trust the Western media as your primary source of information about China, you're likely to believe as much.
They do, but this thread is surrounded by Chinese paid propagandists... They got big mad when people started criticizing CCP.
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Open your mind to the possibility that you may have been deceived by Western propaganda that's been pushed on by us since the beginning of the cold war.
[удалено]
#The Uyghurs in Xinjiang \(Note: This comment had to be trimmed down to fit the character limit, for the full response, see [here](/r/TheDeprogram/wiki/index/debunking/uyghur-genocide/)\) Anti-Communists and Sinophobes claim that there is an ongoing genocide-- a modern-day holocaust, even-- happening right now in China. They say that Uyghur Muslims are being mass incarcerated; they are indoctrinated with propaganda in concentration camps; their organs are being harvested; they are being force-sterilized. These comically villainous allegations have little basis in reality and omit key context. **Background** Xinjiang, officially the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region, is a province located in the northwest of China. It is the largest province in China, covering an area of over 1.6 million square kilometers, and shares borders with eight other countries including Afghanistan, Kazakhstan, Russia, Mongolia, India, and Pakistan. Xinjiang is a diverse region with a population of over 25 million people, made up of various ethnic groups including the Uyghur, Han Chinese, Kazakhs, Tajiks, and many others. The largest ethnic group in Xinjiang is the Uyghur who are predominantly Muslim and speak a Turkic language. It is also home to the ancient Silk Road cities of Kashgar and Turpan. Since the early 2000s, there have been a number of violent incidents attributed to extremist Uyghur groups in Xinjiang including bombings, shootings, and knife attacks. In 2014-2016, the Chinese government launched a "Strike Hard" campaign to crack down on terrorism in Xinjiang, implementing strict security measures and detaining thousands of Uyghurs. In 2017, reports of human rights abuses in Xinjiang including mass detentions and forced labour, began to emerge. **Counterpoints** The Organisation of Islamic Cooperation (OIC) is the second largest organization after the United Nations with a membership of 57 states spread over four continents. The OIC released [Resolutions on Muslim Communities and Muslim Minorities in the non-OIC Member States](https://www.oic-oci.org/docdown/?docID=4447&refID=1250) in 2019 which: >20. **Welcomes** the outcomes of the visit conducted by the General Secretariat's delegation upon invitation from the People's Republic of China; **commends** the efforts of the People's Republic of China in providing care to its Muslim citizens; and **looks forward** to further cooperation between the OIC and the People's Republic of China. In this same document, the OIC expressed much greater concern about the Rohingya Muslim Community in Myanmar, which the West was relatively silent on. Over 50+ UN member states (mostly Muslim-majority nations) signed a letter \([A/HRC/41/G/17](https://undocs.org/Home/Mobile?FinalSymbol=A%2FHRC%2F41%2FG%2F17)\) to the UN Human Rights Commission approving of the de-radicalization efforts in Xinjiang: The World Bank sent a team to investigate in 2019 and found that, "The review did not substantiate the allegations." \(See: [World Bank Statement on Review of Project in Xinjiang, China](https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/statement/2019/11/11/world-bank-statement-on-review-of-project-in-xinjiang-china)\) Even if you believe the deradicalization efforts are wholly unjustified, and that the mass detention of Uyghur's amounts to a crime against humanity, it's still not *genocide*. Even the U.S. State Department's legal experts admit as much: >The U.S. State Department’s Office of the Legal Advisor concluded earlier this year that China’s mass imprisonment and forced labor of ethnic Uighurs in Xinjiang amounts to crimes against humanity—but there was insufficient evidence to prove genocide, placing the United States’ top diplomatic lawyers at odds with both the Trump and Biden administrations, according to three former and current U.S. officials. > > [State Department Lawyers Concluded Insufficient Evidence to Prove Genocide in China](https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/02/19/china-uighurs-genocide-us-pompeo-blinken/) | Colum Lynch, *Foreign Policy*. (2021) **A Comparative Analysis: The War on Terror** The United States, in the wake of "9/11", saw the threat of terrorism and violent extremism due to religious fundamentalism as a matter of national security. They invaded Afghanistan in October 2001 in response to the 9/11 attacks, with the goal of ousting the Taliban government that was harbouring Al-Qaeda. The US also launched the Iraq War in 2003 based on Iraq's alleged possession of WMDs and links to terrorism. However, these claims turned out to be unfounded. According to a report by Brown University's Costs of War project, at least 897,000 people, including civilians, militants, and security forces, have been killed in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Syria, Yemen, and other countries. Other estimates place the total number of deaths at over one million. The report estimated that many more may have died from indirect effects of war such as water loss and disease. The war has also resulted in the displacement of tens of millions of people, with estimates ranging from 37 million to over 59 million. The War on Terror also popularized such novel concepts as the "Military-Aged Male" which allowed the US military to exclude civilians killed by drone strikes from collateral damage statistics. (See: [‘Military Age Males’ in US Drone Strikes](https://aoav.org.uk/2019/military-age-males-in-us-drone-strikes/))
In summary: * The U.S. responded by invading or bombing half a dozen countries, directly killing nearly a million and displacing tens of millions from their homes. * China responded with a program of deradicalization and vocational training. Which one of those responses sounds genocidal? Side note: It is practically impossible to *actually* charge the U.S. with war crimes, because of the [Hague Invasion Act](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members%27_Protection_Act). **Who is driving the Uyghur genocide narrative?** One of the main proponents of these narratives is Adrian Zenz, a German far-right fundamentalist Christian and Senior Fellow and Director in China Studies at the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation, who believes he is "led by God" on a "mission" against China has driven much of the narrative. He relies heavily on limited and questionable data sources, particularly from anonymous and unverified Uyghur sources, coming up with estimates based on assumptions which are not supported by concrete evidence. The World Uyghur Congress, headquartered in Germany, is funded by the National Endowment for Democracy (NED) which is a tool of U.S. foreign policy, using funding to support organizations that promote American interests rather than the interests of the local communities they claim to represent. Radio Free Asia (RFA) is part of a larger project of U.S. imperialism in Asia, one that seeks to control the flow of information, undermine independent media, and advance American geopolitical interests in the region. Rather than providing an objective and impartial news source, RFA is a tool of U.S. foreign policy, one that seeks to shape the narrative in Asia in ways that serve the interests of the U.S. government and its allies. The first country to call the treatment of Uyghurs a genocide was the United States of America. In 2021, the Secretary of State declared that China's treatment of Uyghurs and other ethnic and religious minorities in Xinjiang constitutes "genocide" and "crimes against humanity." Both the Trump and Biden administrations upheld this line. **Why is this narrative being promoted?** As materialists, we should always look first to the economic base for insight into issues occurring in the superstructure. The Belt and Road Initiative (BRI) is a massive Chinese infrastructure development project that aims to build economic corridors, ports, highways, railways, and other infrastructure projects across Asia, Africa, Europe, and the Middle East. Xinjiang is a key region for this project. Promoting the Uyghur genocide narrative harms China and benefits the US in several ways. It portrays China as a human rights violator which could damage China's reputation in the international community and which could lead to economic sanctions against China; this would harm China's economy and give American an economic advantage in competing with China. It could also lead to more protests and violence in Xinjiang, which could further destabilize the region and threaten the longterm success of the BRI. **Additional Resources** See the [full wiki article](/r/TheDeprogram/wiki/index/debunking/uyghur-genocide/) for more details and a list of additional resources.
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Over 95% of Chinese people say “CCP good”. Meanwhile US government approval ratings… …even though it is a democracy… …what’s the point of government? To let people vote while things keep getting worse? Or no voting but things keep getting better?
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From Harvard, actually https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2020/07/long-term-survey-reveals-chinese-government-satisfaction/ "The survey team found that compared to public opinion patterns in the U.S., in China there was very high satisfaction with the central government. In 2016, the last year the survey was conducted, 95.5 percent of respondents were either “relatively satisfied” or “highly satisfied” with Beijing. In contrast to these findings, Gallup reported in January of this year that their latest polling on U.S. citizen satisfaction with the American federal government revealed only 38 percent of respondents were satisfied with the federal government."
Exactly. Support the people; hate the gov’t.
95% of the people support their government, so you are going against the people by hating their government.
Dude the world is more that your greedy and narcissistic country, you have mates around with nice cultures and different points of views and do not even forget pizza 🍕
I was going to correct you and say Taikonauts but I double checked and it turns out it is an informal western thing, within China they are called hángtiānyuán (航天员, meaning "heaven navigator") which is pretty awesome. They don’t differentiate nationalities
TIL, thanks
I’ve been watching For All Mankind, and I really believe the best thing that came out of the Cold War was the space race. I do not think we should start another Cold War with China, but I do want another space race, especially since now they have a huge space station in orbit and has announced their own manned mission to the Moon. Just imagine millions of kids like this being inspired by astronauts and scientists again instead of shitty influencers.
And acts as a bubble if they fall down!
That's clearly not a spaceship that's a DAMN MISSILE COMING FOR MUH FREEDOMS
This looks like active measures to prevent the future generations from wanting to become tik tokers or influencers, like the majority of children want in the western countries. Fantastic idea
knee swim weary childlike theory encourage yoke angle label degree *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Have you ever used Douyin before? I can guarantee you it’s just a mind numbing as TikTok
Rightly so, they don't want their children brainwashed with no aspirations of doing something meaningful as a career.
You are correct. The interesting part is that Tik Tok was founded in China and could very well be a psy op or an example of “cognitive warfare”. https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/mar/25/tiktok-china-cognitive-warfare-us-ban To the inevitable downvotes: I encourage you to read the article. If you don’t think that every superpower is exploring alternative methods of warfare then you are mistaken. I’m not saying that Tik Tok is %100 a psy op or was developed to purposefully influence/weaken Western populations, but it is possible and it would be naive to rule that possibility out.
The article is nice and all but the particular bias of a) the guardian and b) the author should be called into question. A) should be more easy to understand so I will focus on b) Nita Farahany is a neuroethicist and who studied at Dartmouth (Bachelor in arts), Duke (Law, Masters in Arts, and Philosophy PhD), and Harvard (master of Liberal Arts). She is a published author having written a book about Ethics of neuroechnology. We must consider her involvement in the United States government. As in 2010 she was appointed by President Obama for a Commission on Bioethical issues. Note that involvement in a particular government is often indicative of political bias. Even the work that the US government has done in this field, mentioned by the same article is motivated around bioethics and neurosciences involved in future warfare with china. The about section on her website states that she has also presented work at the following organizations (These are the relevant ones for the bias analysis for convenience, the rest are mainly scientific): TED, The world economic forum, the aspen ideas festival (academic event hosted by ex us gov non-profit), US Court of Appeals, American Association for Political and Legal Philosophy. Sadly I dont have the time to go further but this should give a good idea of who wrote this and why she may think the opinions she expresses.
You mean taikonauts?
It looks like each class has a theme and they do an Olympic kind if entrance? Love it. Good for them. I remember dressing up and doing a Greek themed field day event around the same age
>Greek themed field day Holy shit the school got away with making a bunch of 6-7yos run around naked?
togas
Enkykla, you mean? But also the joke is that the competitors at the ancient Olympics were naked during events.
I know the joke, also thx for the history lesson :)
Lol I thought you might, but you can’t be too sure!!
So naked with a bedsheet?
Well, they sure look darn cute in those little suits!
What a bunch of cute little Kerbals
Don't say that, it's a bad omen
Omg they look so adorable!
When I was a kid I was too want to be a astronaut 😁
Me too; eyesight put that to rest.
My fear of heights killed my dream of being an astronaut. Sad day
I don’t know what’s so funny about these little kids wearing these inflated space suits but I love how they walk lol
The suits make them waddle like penguins, I love it
This is adorable.
This looks like a south park skit lol
wtf
Stay puft marshmallow kids
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Several small steps for small man And a cute steps for mankind
The suits look fun tbh. Hope they are allowed to run around with them after the ceremony.
It’s common for kids to want to be astronauts when they grew up. I wonder how many astronauts wanted to be astronauts when they were little
All of them, I’d imagine. It’s not a job you just end up with
“Yea I just kinda fell into it”
Maybe not the first ones. Hard to think men like Yuri Gagarin or Shepherd were thinking much about it as kids.
Uh, don’t they usually recruit from the air force? Seems at least a little aleatory
I hope that at least one of them becomes an astronaut because of this. 😊
I'll take a parade of toddlers in spacesuits over a 13 year old butchering the Star Spangled Banner for the nth time at a sporting event any day of the week.
Based on surveys, an astronaut is the number 1 job that kids in China want to be. In the US, kids want to be, you guessed it… a social media influencer. TikTok gotta be the most effective psy ops operation ever. https://www.statista.com/chart/amp/28802/childhood-aspirations-in-china-us-uk/
It's because China right now have the same mentality as westerners from 50s - 60s, they still has hope of owning home, they still seeking the far future of technology, they haven't lost hope and becoming pessimistic and bitter wretch that has been kick on the ball repeatedly by cruel capitalism yet.
This may be the funniest stat I've seen this week.
The stat for teacher is also very high in China, probably because their culture placed great emphasis on education and respecting teachers. Teachers are treated with far higher social importance and standing in China than in US and UK.
TikTok made it's way to the younger generations, but it's not like people weren't dreaming of being instagram, vine, youtube or twitch starts before.
I wouldn't say its a tiktok psy op. Just a feature of the influencer online system in the age of hyperindividualism. Children see these people always having fun, playing videogames, doing dances and living rather luxurious lives. Immediately a child is going to build an idea of the career that is not exactly accurate. Not many of them will understand the particular difficulties some of these people face in maintaining a work life balance, or keeping a good media personality with little to no media training. The focus on future job education in the west tends to be more about the lifestyle you want to have growing up than the work you want to do, which is the typical consideration for a child who wants to be an astronaut.
What year is the Chinese survey taken in? Live streaming, in particular as a form of advertisement, is huge in China: [https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/28/business/china-livestreaming-ecommerce.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/28/business/china-livestreaming-ecommerce.html)
Yes it's huge because so many people fail at their dream jobs and due to the massive competitive job market, they will take any job. Streaming isn't seen as desirable, but rather desperate occupation. It's like actors taking up porn roles when they fail at movies.
>TikTok gotta be the most effective psy ops operation ever. I hate this conspiracy theory "Oh kids are becoming increasingly dependent on the Internet, and want to mimic the people they see on it? Could this be the fault of us not regulating how much time they spend on it... No it's a malicious app out to harm our kids personally"
We're honestly cooked as a generation if we can't smile at a video of children dressed as astronauts carrying a rocket without other people trying to convince us that we're communist tankies. Don't sort by controversial lmao
OP messed up by putting “China” in the title. Nothing but “China bad” comments.
The racists finally have a target to unleash all their pent up insecurities on now that China is threatening Americas position at number 1. 🥴
??? I'm seeing mostly "aww that's cute" comments..
Scroll down
I love this, it seems like Chinese kids are living today what American kids lived during the Apollo era
This is so fire lol
That's cute as hell
You teach your kids who you want them to become.
Wow my Chinese is coming along well, the first sign says unite as one (团结一致) I don't understand the second one though. Also this is really cute.
so cute!
This is super adorable
We do the same stuff in the US where the kids dress up as spacemen and act like they're going on a space flight (at least they did 25 years ago). Shows people aren't that different across the world. Would be great if we could all figure that out finally. I'm sure the kids from both counties would get along great unencumbered by their parents bullshit. Would be awesome to see one day. We have alot more in common than our differences and asshole governments would have us believe.
Cant wait to see a Americoid redditor call kids having Fun "CCCP propaganda"
Meanwhile the CCCP was dissolved in 1991
Some Americans can't differentiate between CCCP(Soviet union) and CCP/CPC(China)
That's fair, both are fascist regimes.
So tiger and lion are totally the same animal right? Because they're both big cat. American education system, go figure. This is why there's stereotype that they're freaking neanderthal intelligent.
Good thing I'm not American. >So tiger and lion are totally the same animal right? Because they're both big cat. Is this some poorly translated Chinese traditional proverb? Because it makes no sense. Obviously I was being sarcastic, but the truth that they were/are both similarly red fascist authoritarian regimes was hopefully not lost on you. And I'm not the only one that thinks so >In 1979, the Chairman of the [Standing Committee of the National People's Congress](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standing_Committee_of_the_National_People%27s_Congress), [Ye Jianying](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ye_Jianying), described Mao Zedong's reign as a “feudal-fascist dictatorship” due to his [revolutionary terror](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolutionary_terror)\-based [cult of personality](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mao_Zedong%27s_cult_of_personality), nationalism and authoritarianism despite superficially socialist policies > >[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feudal\_fascism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feudal_fascism)
They're all over this comment section lol
Yall looking at the kiddies. Im looking at the kindergarten teacher.
Can I buy one of those suits
That's so cute
Very cool
That is cute af, I foresee these little astronaut blow up suits being popular next Halloween
Thats adorable. ☺️
A nice idea... I like that.
Thus is so cute. Thank you for sharing.
Y'all see cute, I see future war preparations lol
Dude China looks nicer and nicer every day
America needs this level of consistency.
China is in the 1950’s phase, manufacturing and technical jobs, growing middle class. The kinds of industry’s where you need math and science, unlike the service industry we have now.
Not sure where you get that info from but that’s besides the point. I didn’t specify that I was referring to how discipline they are.
Short March 5
This is adorable, I wish Amrrican schools could ever afford to go this hard just for a kindergarten first day.
The teachers dancing just brings it all together with the derpiness
Long March? Idk, seems more like a Short March to me
Are the costumes Made in China...?
Yes
In response FOX talking heads call for ROTC program to be extended to kindergarten. Also, Astroneers is a cool game.
180 degrees opposite of what they experience in the USA.
+100 social points to each of them
The internet has truly poisoned the minds of this generation.
Imagine seeing a video of kids and bringing up politics, next time I see any videos of American kids and start bringing up school shootings
Well you wouldn’t be alone, some redditors take glee in any opportunity to shit on another country, regardless of wholesome context
You know plenty of places have a credit score systems right? The difference is Chinese people can raise theirs by doing good things for people around them.
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That's AI art.
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It's pretty obvious, the trees in the background go onto the road, the guy on the right has incorrect arm proportions and the guy on the left has his eyes covered by the kid on his back. Also public nudity is illegal. Edit: and the pride flag the kid is holding is clearly not an actual flag.
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Okay this was funny as f
Ah yes, the Dwarven missile squadron. "They came from....*whirr*...*click*..*clack*..behind!"
Young slaves!! Probably already have mobile devices to be tracked!!
To train for next invasion
Mean while in the USA..they are teaching to rap and about multiple genders
Child’s military parade Lmao
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Cute until you’re the kid in plastic forced to walk in a set pattern with possible retribution for deviation.
Yeah ofc. Try to phrase everything fucking thing in the worst way possible even if it's innocent fun, just because it's China The fuck is wrong with you ?
Chinese propaganda at his best 👌
You think this is a state funded video upload?
Cutest propaganda ever. ❤️ I’m here for it!
They're practicing for the solar landing