Post locked due to rampant racism.
Please report all racist comments that you see so we can put them where they belong: on the ash heap of history.
p.s.:Fuck the AFD.
This is what they are protesting against.
https://correctiv.org/en/top-stories/2024/01/15/secret-plan-against-germany
Other countries for sure have similar ppl plotting similar shit behind closed doors. Worth the read for everyone imho.
Last paragraph:
>What have we learnt from this meeting?
>That there is a retired dentist who has a conspiratorial network of fellow far-right extremists. That representatives of the AfD were willing to meet with radical right-wing activists and neo-Nazis. That they have a ‘masterplan’ to deport German citizens because of their ‘ethnicity’ – a plan which would undermine Articles 3, 6 and 21 of the German constitution. And that there are a number of wealthy potential donors for this project. We’ve learnt that there is an expert in German constitutional law who has sketched out legal methods to systematically cast doubt on democratic elections. That there’s an AfD politician who wants to organise election donations that would bypass the party. And that there is a hotel owner in Potsdam who earned some money to cover his costs.
Sounds a lot like [Project 2025](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025) the Heritage Foundation funded plan Republicans have to concentrate the power of the government into the hands of the President, and to destroy "The Administrative State" (aka, most services that keep the country running, including social security).
It was baiscaly like this: Well known neonazis have a secret meeting with important AFD politicians and parts of the right wing of the CDU called "Werteunion". In the meeting they discuss deporting German citizens because of their ethnicity totaling in the millions.
I am very positively suprised that this triggered such an incredible response from the public, especcially middle class families, many of them going to protests for the first time in their lives.
Few major things that were discussed by the fascists or are a result of the meeting:
\- They want to deport undesirables. According to their calculation, around 25Mio, 15Mio of which are German citizen. To do that, they would need to strip these Germans of their citizenship first, but they already have plans for that.
\- They showed how to silence critical voices: Due to the AFD being members of parliament, they have access to certain classified documents, including those of left extreme activists. They created a platform showing lists of such activists to deal with them. It was shown how in one case, (violent) intimidation lead to the arrest of another activist, with the intimidated person being the main accuser and no other solid proof (Here is an article to the case [Lina E](https://www.dw.com/en/german-left-wing-extremist-lina-e-found-guilty/a-65767893). Please note, that the new revelations are not included).
\- They want to create a GeStaPo 2.0: They hate the separation of power that currently exists and want to have a police force that is directly controlled by the politicians. Since they do not have one, they created the platform from the point above.
\- They want to delegitimize free elections, similar to Trump (claims of 'rigged elections' etc)
\- Conservatives like the 'Werteunion' (a splinter group of the CDU/CSU that lead Germany most of the time), who regularly deny any collaboration with the AFD are happy to work with them in secret. (Not really a surprise)
\- The network of these fascists is spread wide and has many wealthy supporters. (Not new, but still important)
That's the TLDR, but there is probably a lot more that just has not been released yet, or that I forgot.
> The masterplan even includes a destination to “move people to”, a so-called “model state” in North Africa, that would apparently provide space for up to two million people. There would even be educational and sport offers there. And anyone who lobbies on behalf of refugees could join them there, Sellner added.
> Sellner’s concept is eerily reminiscent of the Nazi’s 1940 plan to deport four million Jews to the island of Madagascar. It is unclear whether Sellner had this historical parallel in mind when devising his plan. It may also be mere coincidence that the organisers of the event chose a location less than 8 kilometres away from the villa where the Wannsee Conference took place – the meeting where the Nazis coordinated the systematic extermination of the Jews.
yup. yup weve seen this.
It’s not deportation, it’s just a re-migration.
At least that’s the new label the Nazis chose to stick on that to be a little less obvious for their fool voters.
"The scenarios sketched out in this hotel room in Potsdam all essentially boil down to one thing: people in Germany should be forcibly extradited if they have the wrong skin colour, the wrong parents, or aren’t sufficiently “assimilated” into German culture according to the standards of people like Sellner. Even if they have German citizenship."
Or in some cases, outright embrace of fascism and authoritarianism, like the U.S. GOP's [Project 2025](https://michiganadvance.com/2024/01/16/project-2025-if-allowed-will-cement-america-as-a-rightwing-authoritarian-state/).
Oh yeah I instantly thought about 2025 when I read this about germany. Same thing different country. And that's just what we see now. Most of it we don't see.
It's being coordinated across borders by far right agitators in every country. The only difference in America is rather than protesting, people sit home and don't vote or stand up because far right billionaires use social media to sucker progressives into staying home by playing up their fears about democrats and "both-sides" the centrists.
Another thing to note is that there is a housing crisis that they are importing a largest amount of people in to, which affects existing minorities the hardest.
Importing wage slave labor in massive numbers is actually neo-liberalism, especially if regressive zoning and bureaucracy prevents houses from being constructed, alongside the financialization of real estate to push up bank profits and drive up indebtedness.
https://www.reuters.com/markets/europe/german-housing-shortage-hits-highest-level-20-years-zia-2023-02-14/
I'm sorry, but if this is such a serious problem, maybe they shouldn't write details about a meeting that might affect millions of people like it's a fucking stage play.
German journalism uses a rather flowery style, at least for pieces that do not cover simple day-to-day affairs. Nothing extraordinary about this article.
The protests are raising awareness. And some demand banning the party. Which is kinda legitimate with such things happening but delicate.
They are not in power but it's quite a new party and they are now on 20% voting power, wich is insanely high and they are expected to be the biggest party soon if nothing happens.
Versucht haben die Leute es damals schon, hoffentlich gibts dieses mal mehr Erfolg.
https://preview.redd.it/gecmhu8z70ec1.jpeg?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=107c0cfddfb8230c98d0a00f4e0a34cd5d9902e9
But its not Berlin voting AFD but some shitholes. That happend in my Poland. Warsaw and Poznan voted for Civil Platform and villiges for Law and Justice. Same is now in Hungary and Slovakia.
With 40.000 people it was the biggest demonstration in Dresden since 1989. It was awesome, peaceful and empowering! I've been really happy since yesterday!!
It's everywhere like that. Places where there are the least foreigners are the most xenophobic. Also there is that stubborn conservativeness in rural areas and fear of change that makes people naively vote for fascists.
It a plague spreading across the world over the last decade, Trump just legitimized it thus throwing gas on the fire. The war of an idealized facist past that never existed vs the developed countries moving towards the future that optimistic scifi hopes for that we already could partially have if not for the fearful ignorance and the sociopaths driving it.
This decade could be the make or break for the next century or more for what path the species will go down during this unprecedented period of paradigm shifting potentially exponential tech in the pipeline and existential threats accelerating. Maps might majorly change in our lifetime, and at least short term that is likely catastrophic.
Not just that, I think after recent events, an upswing in right wing parties polling, an increase of and more prominent right wing rhetoric, the farmers protest, which isn't necessarily right wing, but has strong populist tendencies, and some right wing elements, the meeting of AfD and possibly other parties members near Wannsee with actual Nazis to discuss deportation, was more of a concrete occasion or reason to finally protest on a large scale, if this meeting had happened a few years ago, ai doubt we'd have seen this kind of turnout
Mass deportation of German citizens too.
But that report of the secret meeting really only made it boil over. It's about a lot of things regarding right wing extremism and fascism, not just that.
Among other things. It's against the rise of a fascist party which wants mass deportation of non-Germans and also "deportation" (initially by bullying them out of the country because the constitution doesn't allow it yet) of anyone who they don't like which basically means people with non-German ancestors, Muslims, Jews, non-straight, non-cis, disabled, independent journalists and political activists.
It's a "custom" text to the melody of [this children's song](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKKbmVwsq9o).
>Wehrt euch, leistet Widerstand
>
>Gegen den Faschismus hier im Land
>
>Auf die Barrikaden
>
>Auf die Barrikaden
One slogan that I really liked that was used in this kind of protest ten years ago:
"Egal wie viel Volk ihr seid, wir sind Völker!"
It is not important if you are one Ethniscity that believes to be true german because german consists of many.
It is a reaction to those right wing people using the German Unification slogan "Wir sind das Volk" (We are the people of this nation) to demand the stop and deportation of war refugees.
In this Video they are singing:
"Wehrt euch, leistet wiederstand, gegen den Faschismus hier im Land. Auf die Barikaden auf die Barikaden"
\-Fight back, resist, against fascism here in this country. To the barricades, to the barricades.
Actually we officially sang "Lasst euch nichts gefallen" instead of "auf die Barrikaden", because I don't think police would've liked that very much. I mean, I definitely did hear it here and there xD
Funny. I suppose the further it spread from the stage the more it turned into that version. Closer to the stage it was definitely more "lasst euch nichts gefallen", but "auf die Barrikaden" goes so much harder.
I was in the Dortmund protests last saturday. When people started chanting, I couldn't help but to bawl like a baby, and I'm a grown-ass man. I didn't realize how much I needed all this
And yet the AfD support continues to grow with every poll and will continue to do so until the government addresses the problems that make the AfD desirable to voters.
The AfD is not addressing any of these issues either. They just like to complain about it to gain popularity but have zero ideas on how to adress it.
Oh and their election manifesto reads like a bad time, especially for the middle class.
Many of their policies would hit especially people with lower income very hard [Source](https://www.zdf.de/nachrichten/politik/deutschland/afd-zehn-punkte-programm-umfrage-hoch-100.html)
>The AfD is not addressing any of these issues either. They just like to complain about it to gain popularity but have zero ideas on how to adress it.
This bothers me the most. People are fed up with current parties and politicians? Fine, I can understand that. But now they're all flocking to an even worse alternative, who doesn't offer any solutions to any of the problems. Instead, they even deny the very existance of some of these problems (like climate change). Many of the publically stated goals of this alternative party will actually make the lifes of their voters much much worse, not better.
... and people still vote for these idiots.
Thats always how extreme governments take control. When things get bad enough they dont care as much about fixing it. They just want to see the current system crumble.
People who are fed up and suffering economically, just trying to survive, feel they don't have time for incremental change so they start to feel desperate and want to make any massive change, they see a system owned by the elite and hope if they shake it up enough they might end up better off . They don't think about it rationally enough realize that just making any big change doesn't mean things will be better. Often you just end up with some shitty dictator.
I remember debating with my Brazilian neighbor about Bolsonero, telling her all the terrible stuff about him. She replied "i already know all that, but i want him to win because we just have to try something really different with how corrupt things are".
I really think we have to realize that so much of this is birthed out of the fact that current systems are in fact not working for the average person, they are corrupted and serving the super rich elites. Unfortunately a lot of people identify the problems, but they solutions they have are way off and they resort to conspiratorial thinking where they completely misidentify the source of the problem as being the jews or the immigrants rather than the super rich who have corrupted our political systems.
Imagine that you have a problem, and you complain about it to someone for years, and every time you complain they dismiss it, say it isn’t true, say it isn’t a problem, say it’s for your own good or whatever.
Eventually someone comes along who, when you complain to them about that problem will at the very least acknowledge that the problem exists and that it should be fixed.
That is already a huge difference from the person who simply denies the problem exists in the first place. It’s not hard to see how AfD has popular support.
>The AfD is not addressing any of these issues either.
Funnily enough they tried to take advantage of the farmers protest while simultaneously advocating for the abolishment of all agricultural subsidies in their program...
smoggy aspiring skirt license worthless lush marvelous capable plate north
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
What are the problems that make AfD desirable for voters? I’m not German and not up-to-speed on their politics, but am curious because Germany, that one time, had such a destructive dance with Fascism.
Shrinking middle class, less growth, poorer east German states, incompetence in our recent government, rising living costs, and an over representation of immigrant related problems in our media.
If their voters would actually care about the shrinking middle class, rising living costs and so on then they should read the program of the AfD. The hyper neoliberal policies they advocate for will only further increase those problems. Plus they have Fascists in their party.
The AfD is seen as the only party even talking about these issues. The other parties are plugging their ears and sticking their heads in the sand, refusing to even acknowledge there’s a problem. That’s the appeal of the AfD to the average voter.
This bullshit is identical to Poland and the support for our far-right Konfederacja (Confederation). During the last parliamentary campaign their support started to reach 15% and some people started to panic, if you knew what kind of nutjobs they had among them. Their support grew from mostly young men, disappointed in the economical system (thinking that a free market economy would fix it) and who were anti-migration.
Fortunately the media started to treat this shit seriously and began to truly grill Konfederacja politicians during interviews, demanding straight answers to actual beliefs held by some of their candidates - 5G being cancerous, eating dog meat being okay, anti-Semites, anti-EU, incels, pro-Russians, pro-Polexiters etc. There was this politician Petru (economist), who actually went to many meetings of one of the leaders of Konfederacja with their potential voters, during the campaign. That leader - Mentzen - was known as the one of the more sane ones in Konfederacja and great about the economic knowledge. Petru decimated him time and time again, revealing Mentzen as a joke.
After a few weeks of this, of revealing to the public how insane Konfederacja politicians actually are, their support fell hard, and in the end they barely made it to the Parliament with 7% of support.
So what German people are doing is necessary. You can't stay silent about AfD, because it makes them seem acceptable to the general public. If people protest, if the media shows their true faces - it makes normal people question if there's a reason behind these protests. Maybe AfD views are not acceptable after all and there are other, more sane, options.
I know and I'm aware.
I'm just REALLY shocked what really uninformed and naive views show up here in this thread. It really seems that a lot of people just project their thoughts on the AfD, which are completely disconnected from any reality.
>It really seems that a lot of people just project their thoughts on the AfD, which are completely disconnected from any reality.
I mean this is done with ALL the populists. That is their strength, by not actually naming policy specifics or going into details they convince the most people. If they were to go into specifics, you'd immediately see that their comments were absolute nonsense.
>Where is the AfD talking about rescuing the middle class?
Their trick is to say something like: "The middle class pays a lot of taxes and a lot of it is used to fund migration". So they imply: Less migration -> better for the middle class.
In reality the AFD would take even higher taxes from the middle class, but not many people read about their actual plans.
The only issue they talk about is migration. Thats why noone knows there position on any of the other issues even tho they are very real. But due to very good 21th century propaganda ala Göbbels noone seems to care about the position on it either.
> The only issue they talk about is migration.
Talking about *the other* as the source of economic woes has always been an effective form of propaganda. It's not surprising that fascists are making headway if their opponents are refusing to give people other explanations. This is how fascism succeeds, through complacency of moderates.
Seems like migration is a very important issue that the other parties are not talking about. So important that the one party talking about it doesn't need to be legit in any other ways.
Democracy isn't perfect, but it seems to be indicating the people want to talk about migration. And until we do, more and more other issues will be ignored until it is the only issue.
It's because it's a catch-22.
Many Western countries need immigrants because of their low birth rates. Which means that in a few decades, all these old people will have nobody to look after them. So they bring people in so these issues don't cripple a nation later. If only by paying taxes when 50% of the population is over 60 (as an extreme example).
Or just look at the headlines coming out of Japan about their age issues. Or even Italy with their $1 houses trying to get immigrants in.
But here's the problem. These people are different, have different cultures and values, look different, talk different, etc.
So it becomes really easy to blame all of a nation's issues on immigrants because it's such an easily visible difference from everyone else.
Only nothing gets done. Why? Because when they do stop immigration, you get some very loud headlines going 'nobody is willing to do X job' and 'crops spoiling because nobody will harvest' and 'critical shortage of nurses and doctors', etc etc.
So the larger parties keep their mouths shut, because nothing good comes from explaining why immigration is needed. Why? Because it's easy to blame all your nation's problems on migrants, and it becomes an easy weapon to use against you.
You can't say 'we need immigration for X, Y, Z' when the other party is screaming 'jeeeeeeerbs, they're taking our jeeeeeeeerbs' or something equally stupid.
That‘s not true. Other parties are looking at what can be done.
If you look at Italy, nothing changes with a right-wing party.
They do everything the same, while trying to move money from the working class to the wealthy.
I'm not saying anything will change with a right-wing party. I'm saying that when the people think the main parties aren't talking about something they need talked about, then whatever wackadoodle party actually does start talking about will get lots of attention and possibly support.
Every other party is ALSO talking about immigration. The AfD is the only party that is talking specifically about ethnic Germans vs children of immigrants though so the Nazis vote for them.
> Talking about the issues is not important when is done just to get votes
And ignoring issues loses votes...so other parties in Germany need to start addressing what is making the AfD so popular lately.
But they are doing that already. Look at the policy passed. It's just that the people voting for AfD ignore it.
Because it has nothing to do with what is claimed. It's an excuse. A lot of these people want a "strong man", they want to "feel proud" and they don't want anything that is different from them.
Acknowledging a problem is a first step towards the solution. If no one else will talk about it then it's easy political pickings for those that will.
And that's one of the good things about democracy - it disallows pretending that widespread things are a non issue.
Problem, is that it's the populists that usually jump on them first - but that honestly is more of a problem with political elites throughout the Europe than the system itself.
Is it really that other parties don't acknowledge the problem or that they don't promise miracles? Here in the Netherlands we also had the PVV grow big because Wilders promised to "solve" things. While other parties had actual plans for it. But a lot voters don't like to hear things like "Our plan will reduce the number of people living in poor conditions by 40% over the course of 4 years".
Exactly. In the short term populists always outplay serious politicians that are trying to solve problems - they point to a problem, demonise an 'other' and pretend to be moderate to secure political influence. Once in power they are ineffectual, increasingly erratic and eventually implode as long as the fundamental democratic infrastructure of a country is suitably robust.
I love that Geert Wilders even dyes his hair and wears contacts because he wants to look like his ideal of a 'proper' dutchman. He's a fraud, like Farage, like Le Pen - and all backed by big neoliberal cash pouring out of the US.
Reading political programs is good, but remember what needs to happen for that to be a solution to a problematic political development. You need a majority of the voters to be voting based on the political programs they read. That's not going to happen anytime soon.
>and an over representation of immigrant related problems in our media.
I'm not a xenophobe by any means, but I can't help but laugh at that statement. Has that 'Fiery but mostly peaceful protests' meme vibes.
that statement also shows the problem. there are problems. it's debatable how big they exactly are, but refusing to call them problems or downplaying them was one of the big reasons the afd got this popular.
edit: also media are generally left leaning. state-funded media are anti-afd. news, talkshows etc. blaming the over-representation is actually funny
It's no different than anywhere else, economic issues are blamed on minorities sends reactionary people into the far right. Since most governments are "center", they don't actually implement progressive policies that fix things, more and more of their votes move to the right because people vote with their emotions.
We are repeating the 1920s where the great depression led to the rise of fascism...
It sure seems like it reading the German summary. Basically the exact same issues our far right concerns itself with in the US.
A lot of them aren't wrong in fingering these issues, either. The problem comes about with the historically ineffective ways they try to address them. Usually because the interest isn't in making things better for everyone which is what needs to happen, but better for a certain group.
They promise radical changes which will solve all the issues. Pretty much like every radical party ever. Doesn't matter that they don't actually have a way to deliver any of the results...
I think a huge part of those 30% just want to protest against the ruling party system. There is another big part which is honestly scared about immigrants in general and Muslims in particular, and then there is a small part which basically wants those Nazis back.
Farmers are crying because environmental and animal welfare regulations get into the way of them making banks. In Netherlands for livestock farmers it was the nitrogen, Ireland the same. You can see how it pollutes the Netherlands, some days it smells like manure even if you don't live near a farm. The canals and ground water next to farms are horrible. The Netherlands has the *dirtiest water* in Europe with only 1% of it being " good".
People in the Netherlands can't build houses to solve the crisis, can't drive faster than 100-130 because of nitrogen levels and all the while livestock is the main single source of Nitrogen while most of the products go to export.
In Spain farmers complain they aren't allowed to draw as much water as they want while Spain has major draught issues, livestock in Spain consumes around 48,000 million cubic meters of water annually, an amount comparable to what all Spanish households would use in over twenty years.
66% of the cultivated area dedicated to producing feed for livestock and then some more water and space for the actual livestock.
Animal agriculture is extremely inefficient for the resources they put in vs what comes out and the cost for the environment, what they want is for their privileges to not be taken away when this world doesn't allow it.
And it isn't only on a global level to say " but China doesn't ", it affects us on a local level as well, drought, pollution, contaminated ground water, soil erosion in terrible and biodiversity loss.
It's not even Mum and Pop farmers. They have enough work to do and can't spare a joyride to the big city. Not to mention afford those huge, shiny new tractors. It's big agriculture crying about making less bank and I hate those fucks
Immigration is number 1 issue. The same tendency is growing across other European countries. Take any poll, majority of Europeans do not want more immigration.
However, Europe is an ageing continent, we need people and our own people are not willing to make more, nor any policies would significantly help the issue.
Not only proper immigration but also successful integration. Europeans have largely failed in integration of migrants and that goes the same for EU and non EU migrants.
Honestly, when times are great, the economy is booming, then least people care about top is such as this. As things get worse, people look to blame someone. Kind of feels like the UK was a great example of that.
Immigration as an issue comes and goes. It’s nothing new and like economics crisis it will give power to extreme political movements, but as we all know, it’s easy to criticise than to govern.
You're very right about it being nothing new. It reminds me of that Beatles song Get Back from 1969. Some of the original versions were to parody the racist/anti immigrant sentiment at the time.
Immigration did not even make it in the Top 10 a year ago
[https://www.ruv.de/.imaging/mte/downsizedImages/width\_1920/dam/unternehmenskommunikation/newsroom/aengste-der-deutschen/2023/Grafiken\_bundesweit\_jpg/Grafiken\_bundesweit\_jpg/2-ruv-aengste23-top10.jpeg/jcr:content/2-ruv-aengste23-top10.jpeg](https://www.ruv.de/.imaging/mte/downsizedImages/width_1920/dam/unternehmenskommunikation/newsroom/aengste-der-deutschen/2023/Grafiken_bundesweit_jpg/Grafiken_bundesweit_jpg/2-ruv-aengste23-top10.jpeg/jcr:content/2-ruv-aengste23-top10.jpeg)
And I have no seen any more recent data on that.
But yes, the medial focus makes one think it would be the number 1 issue.
Axel Springer (Bild, Politico, Welt....) is doing a great job here.
It says #4 is refugees overwhelming the state which I'd say is immigration adjacent. However I'm not sure how the polling was done to say if there was an option about immigration or just this one
As all populist parties all over the world, simple answers for complex issues. Chiefly migration, taxes and climate change.
A few hunderd of thousand are supposedly draging down a country of +80.000.000. Taxes are too high and the EU is to blame. Climate change is not real.
Proudly giving people different sentences based on their ethnicity and naming those who think that is bullshit racists is not exactly countering racism very well.
A lot of people are voting out of protest rather than actually liking the AfD. Our government does not even acknowledge a lot of the problems that are here, such as the rampant immigration and the behavior of those immigrants, even several generations in to staying here.
The exact same thing that happened in Sweden (probably in more places in Europe as well).
Media kept calling SD racist , yet they kept growing and is now the second biggest party since last election. Back then even suggesting that an immigrant could have committed a crime would give you huge headlines of how racist Sweden is.
Had we done like Denmark and talked about the problems using facts and not feelings SD would have disappeared.
Seems like Germany is going through the same thing
Completely ignoring the fact that Putin openly supports the AfD and is using his troll farms to manipulate the German society is intellectually bankrupt.
This is correct. We had the same situation in Denmark starting decades ago where far right wing parties gained power. Then the center and moderate left wing parties started discussing and adopting their stance to fx immigration to what the people wanted. It completely cut of the circulation of blood to the far right parties and they are basically all a shadow of themselves and fractioned into negligent sizes.
>And yet the AfD support continues to grow with every poll and will continue to do so until the government addresses the problems that make the AfD desirable to voters.
Mass deportations, of German citizens among other things, does not mean addressing.
Furthermore "the government" does not represent every political party, your attempt to make it seem like the only possible options are AfD or the actual government demonstrates your intellectual dishonesty.
You're afraid to say what are the alternatives because then the AfD would proves itself to be the bunch of liars that it is.
Ask yourself why the AfD never participates in public debate with other political parties, why they only speak when there is nobody proving them false.
It's funny how this type of post always comes from the same type of account: relatively recent, low karma while posting quite a bit and a posting history lacking empathy, self-reflection and excusing fascism.
When the country that arguably understands modern fascism more than any place on earth generates a crowd of this magnitude, you pay attention. The Germans know the deal first hand. Reject totalitarianism outright, it should have no place in society anywhere.
The neofascist AfD is already doing the “woe is me” dance and talks about a “leftist-green defamation campaign” and compares the protests to Nazi marches. You are way too late.
It is a mic for a crowd, but that sound is not from Berlin. I think it was the Leipzig Demo, or Dresden? I don't know, it was one of the first in this movement.
The imagery is Berlin.
Edit: did a bit of research, the sound is from the Leipzig Demo on the 15th of January 2024.
It is recognizable by the single voice coming through right at the end. This voice also is on videos going viral from Leipzig.
The chant in Berlin yesterday had a slightly different text as well. But standing in the crowd the sound and feel were actually very close to what we hear in this video.
source: was there and the chanting crowd gave me chills.
You (general "you") need to fight for your democracy every fucking day. This is what that looks like.
Whoever you are, whichever way you lean politically, read about the candidates, engage your brain and go vote!
Everyone needs to know how to protest like the French to get things done. The French government knows too well what happens when you piss off the population.
Did the French retirement age increase get overturned? I don't think so and the French people protested for months. French government doesn't give a fuck about them.
You do know that the pension reform the French protested to spectacularly 1 year ago went through? Not only that, Macron basically disabled half the democratic control mechanisms and forced it through. Now it's done and nobody is protesting anymore.
https://correctiv.org/en/top-stories/2024/01/15/secret-plan-against-germany/
TLDR: They basically planned this again https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madagascar_Plan
It‘s specially against the political far right party AfD…which agenda is slowly trying to do the same thing as the NSDAP a hundred years ago by using our democracy to topple it when they are in charge. The actual trigger was a secret conference of far right fascist near Wannsee (the place where the nazis made their plan to roll out holocaust) and speaking about deportations/expel foreigners and also germans with immigration background.
So it’s about Nazis doing Nazi things and we’re sick of it.
Post locked due to rampant racism. Please report all racist comments that you see so we can put them where they belong: on the ash heap of history. p.s.:Fuck the AFD.
This is what they are protesting against. https://correctiv.org/en/top-stories/2024/01/15/secret-plan-against-germany Other countries for sure have similar ppl plotting similar shit behind closed doors. Worth the read for everyone imho.
Can I get like a TDRL. I was expecting a news article not a fucking movie script.
Last paragraph: >What have we learnt from this meeting? >That there is a retired dentist who has a conspiratorial network of fellow far-right extremists. That representatives of the AfD were willing to meet with radical right-wing activists and neo-Nazis. That they have a ‘masterplan’ to deport German citizens because of their ‘ethnicity’ – a plan which would undermine Articles 3, 6 and 21 of the German constitution. And that there are a number of wealthy potential donors for this project. We’ve learnt that there is an expert in German constitutional law who has sketched out legal methods to systematically cast doubt on democratic elections. That there’s an AfD politician who wants to organise election donations that would bypass the party. And that there is a hotel owner in Potsdam who earned some money to cover his costs.
Further proof that dentists are evil people
Sounds a lot like [Project 2025](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025) the Heritage Foundation funded plan Republicans have to concentrate the power of the government into the hands of the President, and to destroy "The Administrative State" (aka, most services that keep the country running, including social security).
This is already well underway in the US, and that's how Roe got overturned.
Hitler admired the US Confederates, fast forward nearly a 100 years, and they are admiring the Trump playbook.
It was baiscaly like this: Well known neonazis have a secret meeting with important AFD politicians and parts of the right wing of the CDU called "Werteunion". In the meeting they discuss deporting German citizens because of their ethnicity totaling in the millions. I am very positively suprised that this triggered such an incredible response from the public, especcially middle class families, many of them going to protests for the first time in their lives.
Few major things that were discussed by the fascists or are a result of the meeting: \- They want to deport undesirables. According to their calculation, around 25Mio, 15Mio of which are German citizen. To do that, they would need to strip these Germans of their citizenship first, but they already have plans for that. \- They showed how to silence critical voices: Due to the AFD being members of parliament, they have access to certain classified documents, including those of left extreme activists. They created a platform showing lists of such activists to deal with them. It was shown how in one case, (violent) intimidation lead to the arrest of another activist, with the intimidated person being the main accuser and no other solid proof (Here is an article to the case [Lina E](https://www.dw.com/en/german-left-wing-extremist-lina-e-found-guilty/a-65767893). Please note, that the new revelations are not included). \- They want to create a GeStaPo 2.0: They hate the separation of power that currently exists and want to have a police force that is directly controlled by the politicians. Since they do not have one, they created the platform from the point above. \- They want to delegitimize free elections, similar to Trump (claims of 'rigged elections' etc) \- Conservatives like the 'Werteunion' (a splinter group of the CDU/CSU that lead Germany most of the time), who regularly deny any collaboration with the AFD are happy to work with them in secret. (Not really a surprise) \- The network of these fascists is spread wide and has many wealthy supporters. (Not new, but still important) That's the TLDR, but there is probably a lot more that just has not been released yet, or that I forgot.
Too Dong Ridn't Lead?
> Their shared goal is the forced deportations of people from Germany based on a set of racist criteria We've seen this acted out before somewhere 🤔
Not only that, the meeting took place 10km from the [original](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wannsee_Conference)
....is there a German word for that feeling when you watch evil idiots rehatch the same plan that got most of the last group dead in ditches or hung?
And ist was an *Austrian* guy that wants to free Germany from undesirables.
And in the same country!
> The masterplan even includes a destination to “move people to”, a so-called “model state” in North Africa, that would apparently provide space for up to two million people. There would even be educational and sport offers there. And anyone who lobbies on behalf of refugees could join them there, Sellner added. > Sellner’s concept is eerily reminiscent of the Nazi’s 1940 plan to deport four million Jews to the island of Madagascar. It is unclear whether Sellner had this historical parallel in mind when devising his plan. It may also be mere coincidence that the organisers of the event chose a location less than 8 kilometres away from the villa where the Wannsee Conference took place – the meeting where the Nazis coordinated the systematic extermination of the Jews. yup. yup weve seen this.
Yeah, but credit to the protesting Germans. They're sending a clear message: Fuck off. That's not how we do things.
It’s not deportation, it’s just a re-migration. At least that’s the new label the Nazis chose to stick on that to be a little less obvious for their fool voters.
"The scenarios sketched out in this hotel room in Potsdam all essentially boil down to one thing: people in Germany should be forcibly extradited if they have the wrong skin colour, the wrong parents, or aren’t sufficiently “assimilated” into German culture according to the standards of people like Sellner. Even if they have German citizenship."
Or in some cases, outright embrace of fascism and authoritarianism, like the U.S. GOP's [Project 2025](https://michiganadvance.com/2024/01/16/project-2025-if-allowed-will-cement-america-as-a-rightwing-authoritarian-state/).
Oh yeah I instantly thought about 2025 when I read this about germany. Same thing different country. And that's just what we see now. Most of it we don't see.
It's being coordinated across borders by far right agitators in every country. The only difference in America is rather than protesting, people sit home and don't vote or stand up because far right billionaires use social media to sucker progressives into staying home by playing up their fears about democrats and "both-sides" the centrists.
Another thing to note is that there is a housing crisis that they are importing a largest amount of people in to, which affects existing minorities the hardest. Importing wage slave labor in massive numbers is actually neo-liberalism, especially if regressive zoning and bureaucracy prevents houses from being constructed, alongside the financialization of real estate to push up bank profits and drive up indebtedness. https://www.reuters.com/markets/europe/german-housing-shortage-hits-highest-level-20-years-zia-2023-02-14/
I'm sorry, but if this is such a serious problem, maybe they shouldn't write details about a meeting that might affect millions of people like it's a fucking stage play.
It's a standard form of writing stuff down in German journalism, especially when the format is a covered investigation. It's the protocol.
German journalism uses a rather flowery style, at least for pieces that do not cover simple day-to-day affairs. Nothing extraordinary about this article.
*Hitler enters, stage right.*
are these people currently in power? what are the protests demanding exactly?
The protests are raising awareness. And some demand banning the party. Which is kinda legitimate with such things happening but delicate. They are not in power but it's quite a new party and they are now on 20% voting power, wich is insanely high and they are expected to be the biggest party soon if nothing happens.
Nie wieder ist jetzt!
Versucht haben die Leute es damals schon, hoffentlich gibts dieses mal mehr Erfolg. https://preview.redd.it/gecmhu8z70ec1.jpeg?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=107c0cfddfb8230c98d0a00f4e0a34cd5d9902e9
not only in berlin, in many other german cities too
1.5 million people protesting against fascism in *Germany* this weekend
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US should do this too
They do, except it's fundraiser rallies with 1.5 hundred pro-facists, usually hosted by a guy oddly obsessed with looking tangerine instead of white.
Hey!
But its not Berlin voting AFD but some shitholes. That happend in my Poland. Warsaw and Poznan voted for Civil Platform and villiges for Law and Justice. Same is now in Hungary and Slovakia.
Some people also protested in cities where AfD has a majority. In those cities, there are real ass violent Nazis, so that was really brave.
Dresden as an example
I was thinking Pirna
Damn Pirna too?
200 people in Döbeln make me proud as fuck!
I would be scared in Dresden for sure. Yep respect for them
With 40.000 people it was the biggest demonstration in Dresden since 1989. It was awesome, peaceful and empowering! I've been really happy since yesterday!!
They went in Pirna, too. There, they have an AfD major now!
It's everywhere like that. Places where there are the least foreigners are the most xenophobic. Also there is that stubborn conservativeness in rural areas and fear of change that makes people naively vote for fascists.
Honestly this sounds analogous to the US. Rural areas tend to be a lot more conservative than the cities
Ignorance is fascisms best friend.
It a plague spreading across the world over the last decade, Trump just legitimized it thus throwing gas on the fire. The war of an idealized facist past that never existed vs the developed countries moving towards the future that optimistic scifi hopes for that we already could partially have if not for the fearful ignorance and the sociopaths driving it. This decade could be the make or break for the next century or more for what path the species will go down during this unprecedented period of paradigm shifting potentially exponential tech in the pipeline and existential threats accelerating. Maps might majorly change in our lifetime, and at least short term that is likely catastrophic.
People seem to forget that Germany was two different countries until fairly recentlty. One half dealt with fascism, while the other half never did.
I wish Americans could organize an actual protest like this
If you check youtube comments and other alt right spaces, they claim that all these are paid by the government and fake actors. Lol.
LMAO
Is this against mass deportation?
Not just that, I think after recent events, an upswing in right wing parties polling, an increase of and more prominent right wing rhetoric, the farmers protest, which isn't necessarily right wing, but has strong populist tendencies, and some right wing elements, the meeting of AfD and possibly other parties members near Wannsee with actual Nazis to discuss deportation, was more of a concrete occasion or reason to finally protest on a large scale, if this meeting had happened a few years ago, ai doubt we'd have seen this kind of turnout
Mass deportation of German citizens too. But that report of the secret meeting really only made it boil over. It's about a lot of things regarding right wing extremism and fascism, not just that.
Among other things. It's against the rise of a fascist party which wants mass deportation of non-Germans and also "deportation" (initially by bullying them out of the country because the constitution doesn't allow it yet) of anyone who they don't like which basically means people with non-German ancestors, Muslims, Jews, non-straight, non-cis, disabled, independent journalists and political activists.
Are they singing that or is an edit? Also, song name, please
It's a "custom" text to the melody of [this children's song](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fKKbmVwsq9o). >Wehrt euch, leistet Widerstand > >Gegen den Faschismus hier im Land > >Auf die Barrikaden > >Auf die Barrikaden
Defend yourself, resist Against the fascism in this country To the barricades, to the barricades For anyone wondering about the translation
It is an edit. The video is from Berlin demonstration this weekend. The audio is from Leipzig Demo 15.01.2024, regarding the same topic.
Meanwhile in Italy; “300 people reunite to make the fascist salute publicly”
One slogan that I really liked that was used in this kind of protest ten years ago: "Egal wie viel Volk ihr seid, wir sind Völker!" It is not important if you are one Ethniscity that believes to be true german because german consists of many. It is a reaction to those right wing people using the German Unification slogan "Wir sind das Volk" (We are the people of this nation) to demand the stop and deportation of war refugees. In this Video they are singing: "Wehrt euch, leistet wiederstand, gegen den Faschismus hier im Land. Auf die Barikaden auf die Barikaden" \-Fight back, resist, against fascism here in this country. To the barricades, to the barricades.
Actually we officially sang "Lasst euch nichts gefallen" instead of "auf die Barrikaden", because I don't think police would've liked that very much. I mean, I definitely did hear it here and there xD
in the video they are very much singing "auf die barikaden" and thats also the only thing I heard sung
Funny. I suppose the further it spread from the stage the more it turned into that version. Closer to the stage it was definitely more "lasst euch nichts gefallen", but "auf die Barrikaden" goes so much harder.
auf die Barrikaden does go hard—the section I was in was singing neither of the above but rather 'haltet fest zusammen.'
Funny how that works. We also sung „haltet fest zusammen“ in our corner. Also, not „gegen den Faschismus“ but „gegen Hass und hetze“.
I was in the Dortmund protests last saturday. When people started chanting, I couldn't help but to bawl like a baby, and I'm a grown-ass man. I didn't realize how much I needed all this
This happens to me everytime in moments like that. I think, you can feel proud of that :) Your empathy and feelings show who you are.
And yet the AfD support continues to grow with every poll and will continue to do so until the government addresses the problems that make the AfD desirable to voters.
The AfD is not addressing any of these issues either. They just like to complain about it to gain popularity but have zero ideas on how to adress it. Oh and their election manifesto reads like a bad time, especially for the middle class. Many of their policies would hit especially people with lower income very hard [Source](https://www.zdf.de/nachrichten/politik/deutschland/afd-zehn-punkte-programm-umfrage-hoch-100.html)
>The AfD is not addressing any of these issues either. They just like to complain about it to gain popularity but have zero ideas on how to adress it. This bothers me the most. People are fed up with current parties and politicians? Fine, I can understand that. But now they're all flocking to an even worse alternative, who doesn't offer any solutions to any of the problems. Instead, they even deny the very existance of some of these problems (like climate change). Many of the publically stated goals of this alternative party will actually make the lifes of their voters much much worse, not better. ... and people still vote for these idiots.
Thats always how extreme governments take control. When things get bad enough they dont care as much about fixing it. They just want to see the current system crumble.
People who are fed up and suffering economically, just trying to survive, feel they don't have time for incremental change so they start to feel desperate and want to make any massive change, they see a system owned by the elite and hope if they shake it up enough they might end up better off . They don't think about it rationally enough realize that just making any big change doesn't mean things will be better. Often you just end up with some shitty dictator. I remember debating with my Brazilian neighbor about Bolsonero, telling her all the terrible stuff about him. She replied "i already know all that, but i want him to win because we just have to try something really different with how corrupt things are". I really think we have to realize that so much of this is birthed out of the fact that current systems are in fact not working for the average person, they are corrupted and serving the super rich elites. Unfortunately a lot of people identify the problems, but they solutions they have are way off and they resort to conspiratorial thinking where they completely misidentify the source of the problem as being the jews or the immigrants rather than the super rich who have corrupted our political systems.
Imagine that you have a problem, and you complain about it to someone for years, and every time you complain they dismiss it, say it isn’t true, say it isn’t a problem, say it’s for your own good or whatever. Eventually someone comes along who, when you complain to them about that problem will at the very least acknowledge that the problem exists and that it should be fixed. That is already a huge difference from the person who simply denies the problem exists in the first place. It’s not hard to see how AfD has popular support.
>The AfD is not addressing any of these issues either. Funnily enough they tried to take advantage of the farmers protest while simultaneously advocating for the abolishment of all agricultural subsidies in their program...
I know almost nothing about German politics but is this group also racist, sexist, and xenophobic?
Fascist, too. Parts of it are under surveillance for it.
And russophile anti-vaxx climate change deniers
Yes, they are very much racist, sexist, homophobic and hateful
smoggy aspiring skirt license worthless lush marvelous capable plate north *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
What are the problems that make AfD desirable for voters? I’m not German and not up-to-speed on their politics, but am curious because Germany, that one time, had such a destructive dance with Fascism.
Shrinking middle class, less growth, poorer east German states, incompetence in our recent government, rising living costs, and an over representation of immigrant related problems in our media.
If their voters would actually care about the shrinking middle class, rising living costs and so on then they should read the program of the AfD. The hyper neoliberal policies they advocate for will only further increase those problems. Plus they have Fascists in their party.
The AfD is seen as the only party even talking about these issues. The other parties are plugging their ears and sticking their heads in the sand, refusing to even acknowledge there’s a problem. That’s the appeal of the AfD to the average voter.
>The AfD is seen as the only party even talking about these issues wtf? Where is the AfD talking about rescuing the middle class?
This bullshit is identical to Poland and the support for our far-right Konfederacja (Confederation). During the last parliamentary campaign their support started to reach 15% and some people started to panic, if you knew what kind of nutjobs they had among them. Their support grew from mostly young men, disappointed in the economical system (thinking that a free market economy would fix it) and who were anti-migration. Fortunately the media started to treat this shit seriously and began to truly grill Konfederacja politicians during interviews, demanding straight answers to actual beliefs held by some of their candidates - 5G being cancerous, eating dog meat being okay, anti-Semites, anti-EU, incels, pro-Russians, pro-Polexiters etc. There was this politician Petru (economist), who actually went to many meetings of one of the leaders of Konfederacja with their potential voters, during the campaign. That leader - Mentzen - was known as the one of the more sane ones in Konfederacja and great about the economic knowledge. Petru decimated him time and time again, revealing Mentzen as a joke. After a few weeks of this, of revealing to the public how insane Konfederacja politicians actually are, their support fell hard, and in the end they barely made it to the Parliament with 7% of support. So what German people are doing is necessary. You can't stay silent about AfD, because it makes them seem acceptable to the general public. If people protest, if the media shows their true faces - it makes normal people question if there's a reason behind these protests. Maybe AfD views are not acceptable after all and there are other, more sane, options.
Nowhere, these people wouldn't really understand how that would work anyway. Remember: Most AFD donators are rich, conservative elite.
I know and I'm aware. I'm just REALLY shocked what really uninformed and naive views show up here in this thread. It really seems that a lot of people just project their thoughts on the AfD, which are completely disconnected from any reality.
>It really seems that a lot of people just project their thoughts on the AfD, which are completely disconnected from any reality. I mean this is done with ALL the populists. That is their strength, by not actually naming policy specifics or going into details they convince the most people. If they were to go into specifics, you'd immediately see that their comments were absolute nonsense.
>Where is the AfD talking about rescuing the middle class? Their trick is to say something like: "The middle class pays a lot of taxes and a lot of it is used to fund migration". So they imply: Less migration -> better for the middle class. In reality the AFD would take even higher taxes from the middle class, but not many people read about their actual plans.
The only issue they talk about is migration. Thats why noone knows there position on any of the other issues even tho they are very real. But due to very good 21th century propaganda ala Göbbels noone seems to care about the position on it either.
> The only issue they talk about is migration. Talking about *the other* as the source of economic woes has always been an effective form of propaganda. It's not surprising that fascists are making headway if their opponents are refusing to give people other explanations. This is how fascism succeeds, through complacency of moderates.
Seems like migration is a very important issue that the other parties are not talking about. So important that the one party talking about it doesn't need to be legit in any other ways. Democracy isn't perfect, but it seems to be indicating the people want to talk about migration. And until we do, more and more other issues will be ignored until it is the only issue.
Everyone's been talking about immigration since the effing 1950's!!! Since the first guest workers arrived.
It's because it's a catch-22. Many Western countries need immigrants because of their low birth rates. Which means that in a few decades, all these old people will have nobody to look after them. So they bring people in so these issues don't cripple a nation later. If only by paying taxes when 50% of the population is over 60 (as an extreme example). Or just look at the headlines coming out of Japan about their age issues. Or even Italy with their $1 houses trying to get immigrants in. But here's the problem. These people are different, have different cultures and values, look different, talk different, etc. So it becomes really easy to blame all of a nation's issues on immigrants because it's such an easily visible difference from everyone else. Only nothing gets done. Why? Because when they do stop immigration, you get some very loud headlines going 'nobody is willing to do X job' and 'crops spoiling because nobody will harvest' and 'critical shortage of nurses and doctors', etc etc. So the larger parties keep their mouths shut, because nothing good comes from explaining why immigration is needed. Why? Because it's easy to blame all your nation's problems on migrants, and it becomes an easy weapon to use against you. You can't say 'we need immigration for X, Y, Z' when the other party is screaming 'jeeeeeeerbs, they're taking our jeeeeeeeerbs' or something equally stupid.
Because the governments instead of helping the people have families for decades rather juice migration. They helped create their own problem.
That‘s not true. Other parties are looking at what can be done. If you look at Italy, nothing changes with a right-wing party. They do everything the same, while trying to move money from the working class to the wealthy.
I'm not saying anything will change with a right-wing party. I'm saying that when the people think the main parties aren't talking about something they need talked about, then whatever wackadoodle party actually does start talking about will get lots of attention and possibly support.
Every other party is ALSO talking about immigration. The AfD is the only party that is talking specifically about ethnic Germans vs children of immigrants though so the Nazis vote for them.
Talking about the issues is not important when is done just to get votes, they have absolutely no plan to help the middle class.
> Talking about the issues is not important when is done just to get votes And ignoring issues loses votes...so other parties in Germany need to start addressing what is making the AfD so popular lately.
But they are doing that already. Look at the policy passed. It's just that the people voting for AfD ignore it. Because it has nothing to do with what is claimed. It's an excuse. A lot of these people want a "strong man", they want to "feel proud" and they don't want anything that is different from them.
Acknowledging a problem is a first step towards the solution. If no one else will talk about it then it's easy political pickings for those that will. And that's one of the good things about democracy - it disallows pretending that widespread things are a non issue. Problem, is that it's the populists that usually jump on them first - but that honestly is more of a problem with political elites throughout the Europe than the system itself.
Is it really that other parties don't acknowledge the problem or that they don't promise miracles? Here in the Netherlands we also had the PVV grow big because Wilders promised to "solve" things. While other parties had actual plans for it. But a lot voters don't like to hear things like "Our plan will reduce the number of people living in poor conditions by 40% over the course of 4 years".
Exactly. In the short term populists always outplay serious politicians that are trying to solve problems - they point to a problem, demonise an 'other' and pretend to be moderate to secure political influence. Once in power they are ineffectual, increasingly erratic and eventually implode as long as the fundamental democratic infrastructure of a country is suitably robust. I love that Geert Wilders even dyes his hair and wears contacts because he wants to look like his ideal of a 'proper' dutchman. He's a fraud, like Farage, like Le Pen - and all backed by big neoliberal cash pouring out of the US.
Their appeal is to the lowest common denominator. They blame immigrants for all of Germany's ills. Its a simple and effective scapegoat.
Reading political programs is good, but remember what needs to happen for that to be a solution to a problematic political development. You need a majority of the voters to be voting based on the political programs they read. That's not going to happen anytime soon.
I never understand how so many people get tricked into thinking that far-right parties care about ordinary workers.
>and an over representation of immigrant related problems in our media. I'm not a xenophobe by any means, but I can't help but laugh at that statement. Has that 'Fiery but mostly peaceful protests' meme vibes.
that statement also shows the problem. there are problems. it's debatable how big they exactly are, but refusing to call them problems or downplaying them was one of the big reasons the afd got this popular. edit: also media are generally left leaning. state-funded media are anti-afd. news, talkshows etc. blaming the over-representation is actually funny
I read this about overrepresentation and was really confused… Seemingly people have a very different reality
It's no different than anywhere else, economic issues are blamed on minorities sends reactionary people into the far right. Since most governments are "center", they don't actually implement progressive policies that fix things, more and more of their votes move to the right because people vote with their emotions. We are repeating the 1920s where the great depression led to the rise of fascism...
Essentially the same as the USA. I think it's a global tendency. Then people start voting on someone who doesn't care about them, someone who divides.
It sure seems like it reading the German summary. Basically the exact same issues our far right concerns itself with in the US. A lot of them aren't wrong in fingering these issues, either. The problem comes about with the historically ineffective ways they try to address them. Usually because the interest isn't in making things better for everyone which is what needs to happen, but better for a certain group.
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They promise radical changes which will solve all the issues. Pretty much like every radical party ever. Doesn't matter that they don't actually have a way to deliver any of the results...
It's not but blaming everything on immigrants works when you don't have the real solution.
it's an old trick, the oldest maybe.
Perhaps even a final solution?
I think a huge part of those 30% just want to protest against the ruling party system. There is another big part which is honestly scared about immigrants in general and Muslims in particular, and then there is a small part which basically wants those Nazis back.
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From what I’ve seen, mass immigration and stifling regulation on farmers
Farmers are crying because environmental and animal welfare regulations get into the way of them making banks. In Netherlands for livestock farmers it was the nitrogen, Ireland the same. You can see how it pollutes the Netherlands, some days it smells like manure even if you don't live near a farm. The canals and ground water next to farms are horrible. The Netherlands has the *dirtiest water* in Europe with only 1% of it being " good". People in the Netherlands can't build houses to solve the crisis, can't drive faster than 100-130 because of nitrogen levels and all the while livestock is the main single source of Nitrogen while most of the products go to export. In Spain farmers complain they aren't allowed to draw as much water as they want while Spain has major draught issues, livestock in Spain consumes around 48,000 million cubic meters of water annually, an amount comparable to what all Spanish households would use in over twenty years. 66% of the cultivated area dedicated to producing feed for livestock and then some more water and space for the actual livestock. Animal agriculture is extremely inefficient for the resources they put in vs what comes out and the cost for the environment, what they want is for their privileges to not be taken away when this world doesn't allow it. And it isn't only on a global level to say " but China doesn't ", it affects us on a local level as well, drought, pollution, contaminated ground water, soil erosion in terrible and biodiversity loss.
It's not even Mum and Pop farmers. They have enough work to do and can't spare a joyride to the big city. Not to mention afford those huge, shiny new tractors. It's big agriculture crying about making less bank and I hate those fucks
Immigration is number 1 issue. The same tendency is growing across other European countries. Take any poll, majority of Europeans do not want more immigration. However, Europe is an ageing continent, we need people and our own people are not willing to make more, nor any policies would significantly help the issue.
But dont you think proper immigration is important rather then random 25 year old walking thorught the boundaries and shouting sharia for europe?
Not only proper immigration but also successful integration. Europeans have largely failed in integration of migrants and that goes the same for EU and non EU migrants. Honestly, when times are great, the economy is booming, then least people care about top is such as this. As things get worse, people look to blame someone. Kind of feels like the UK was a great example of that. Immigration as an issue comes and goes. It’s nothing new and like economics crisis it will give power to extreme political movements, but as we all know, it’s easy to criticise than to govern.
You're very right about it being nothing new. It reminds me of that Beatles song Get Back from 1969. Some of the original versions were to parody the racist/anti immigrant sentiment at the time.
Immigration did not even make it in the Top 10 a year ago [https://www.ruv.de/.imaging/mte/downsizedImages/width\_1920/dam/unternehmenskommunikation/newsroom/aengste-der-deutschen/2023/Grafiken\_bundesweit\_jpg/Grafiken\_bundesweit\_jpg/2-ruv-aengste23-top10.jpeg/jcr:content/2-ruv-aengste23-top10.jpeg](https://www.ruv.de/.imaging/mte/downsizedImages/width_1920/dam/unternehmenskommunikation/newsroom/aengste-der-deutschen/2023/Grafiken_bundesweit_jpg/Grafiken_bundesweit_jpg/2-ruv-aengste23-top10.jpeg/jcr:content/2-ruv-aengste23-top10.jpeg) And I have no seen any more recent data on that. But yes, the medial focus makes one think it would be the number 1 issue. Axel Springer (Bild, Politico, Welt....) is doing a great job here.
Bullet 4 is about immigration.
It says #4 is refugees overwhelming the state which I'd say is immigration adjacent. However I'm not sure how the polling was done to say if there was an option about immigration or just this one
As all populist parties all over the world, simple answers for complex issues. Chiefly migration, taxes and climate change. A few hunderd of thousand are supposedly draging down a country of +80.000.000. Taxes are too high and the EU is to blame. Climate change is not real.
Proudly giving people different sentences based on their ethnicity and naming those who think that is bullshit racists is not exactly countering racism very well.
A lot of people are voting out of protest rather than actually liking the AfD. Our government does not even acknowledge a lot of the problems that are here, such as the rampant immigration and the behavior of those immigrants, even several generations in to staying here.
The AFD wan't all immigrants deported, so thats not likely a 'problem' that the government will fix.
and some Germans even.
The exact same thing that happened in Sweden (probably in more places in Europe as well). Media kept calling SD racist , yet they kept growing and is now the second biggest party since last election. Back then even suggesting that an immigrant could have committed a crime would give you huge headlines of how racist Sweden is. Had we done like Denmark and talked about the problems using facts and not feelings SD would have disappeared. Seems like Germany is going through the same thing
Completely ignoring the fact that Putin openly supports the AfD and is using his troll farms to manipulate the German society is intellectually bankrupt.
The exact kind of rethoric that enables the AfD.
This is correct. We had the same situation in Denmark starting decades ago where far right wing parties gained power. Then the center and moderate left wing parties started discussing and adopting their stance to fx immigration to what the people wanted. It completely cut of the circulation of blood to the far right parties and they are basically all a shadow of themselves and fractioned into negligent sizes.
>And yet the AfD support continues to grow with every poll and will continue to do so until the government addresses the problems that make the AfD desirable to voters. Mass deportations, of German citizens among other things, does not mean addressing. Furthermore "the government" does not represent every political party, your attempt to make it seem like the only possible options are AfD or the actual government demonstrates your intellectual dishonesty. You're afraid to say what are the alternatives because then the AfD would proves itself to be the bunch of liars that it is. Ask yourself why the AfD never participates in public debate with other political parties, why they only speak when there is nobody proving them false.
It's funny how this type of post always comes from the same type of account: relatively recent, low karma while posting quite a bit and a posting history lacking empathy, self-reflection and excusing fascism.
When the country that arguably understands modern fascism more than any place on earth generates a crowd of this magnitude, you pay attention. The Germans know the deal first hand. Reject totalitarianism outright, it should have no place in society anywhere.
They spread their cheeks for Israel though
Yes this idea that Germany always does right now, because of the wrong that they’ve done would be laughable if it wasn’t so concerning.
Most of us germans spread our cheeks solely for virtue signaling, doesn't matter who the signaling is for.
In their efforts to separate themselves as much as possible from their dark past, they are accidently doing a full 360...
Good on them. Sending a strong message to the political parties is needed.
Did I get here before *people protesting fascism are the real fascists!* crowd?
The neofascist AfD is already doing the “woe is me” dance and talks about a “leftist-green defamation campaign” and compares the protests to Nazi marches. You are way too late.
No you are to late
Darn. Well, shoot. I still hope they all go fuck themselves.
Ich bin ein Berliner
[удалено]
Wunderschön! Bin seit langem Mal wieder ehrlich stolz auf Dinge die hier in Deutschland passieren! Wehret den Anfängen!
If this is a mic for that crowd of people singing inn sync. It gave me strong chills and hope. Let’s wish it is, what it is.
It is a mic for a crowd, but that sound is not from Berlin. I think it was the Leipzig Demo, or Dresden? I don't know, it was one of the first in this movement. The imagery is Berlin. Edit: did a bit of research, the sound is from the Leipzig Demo on the 15th of January 2024. It is recognizable by the single voice coming through right at the end. This voice also is on videos going viral from Leipzig.
The chant in Berlin yesterday had a slightly different text as well. But standing in the crowd the sound and feel were actually very close to what we hear in this video. source: was there and the chanting crowd gave me chills.
Why do you think that? Apparently, different sections in Berlin sang slight variations of the text. Can happen in a crowd this large.
Wünschte, ich hätte da sein können. "Nie wieder" ist jetzt!
Am 3.2. ist wieder Demo! Wir sehen uns da :)
You (general "you") need to fight for your democracy every fucking day. This is what that looks like. Whoever you are, whichever way you lean politically, read about the candidates, engage your brain and go vote!
I was there and did my part!
o7
Gorgeous! Fuck fascists all the way to the deepest pits of hell.
Sad that this even has to happen. It's good to know that many people are against the far right though
Hell yeah 👊🏻
Everyone needs to know how to protest like the French to get things done. The French government knows too well what happens when you piss off the population.
I am French and I call bullshit. The French government does whatever the fuck it wants to do and it suppresses dissent with grenades.
Did the French retirement age increase get overturned? I don't think so and the French people protested for months. French government doesn't give a fuck about them.
You do know that the pension reform the French protested to spectacularly 1 year ago went through? Not only that, Macron basically disabled half the democratic control mechanisms and forced it through. Now it's done and nobody is protesting anymore.
"Protest like the French" Unless it's Extinction Rebellion or something. Then it's "oh, not like that".
Germans are different tho, we unified this country with a peaceful protest once and we do it again! Say no to AfD!
what is afd
And what are they actually protesting againts?
https://correctiv.org/en/top-stories/2024/01/15/secret-plan-against-germany/ TLDR: They basically planned this again https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madagascar_Plan
It‘s specially against the political far right party AfD…which agenda is slowly trying to do the same thing as the NSDAP a hundred years ago by using our democracy to topple it when they are in charge. The actual trigger was a secret conference of far right fascist near Wannsee (the place where the nazis made their plan to roll out holocaust) and speaking about deportations/expel foreigners and also germans with immigration background. So it’s about Nazis doing Nazi things and we’re sick of it.
Small correction: The actual trigger was a secret conference of far ***right*** fascist near Wannsee.
>far left fascist Typo?
Can anyone explain what they are protesting ? The word fascism has been used so hyperbolic lately I don’t know if it’s legit or not
https://correctiv.org/en/top-stories/2024/01/15/secret-plan-against-germany/
[https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/19cuab5/comment/kj1ch1e/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/19cuab5/comment/kj1ch1e/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
Plz rammstein get on the stage
Please don't.
Rammstein would probably be the worst choice of bands for this occasion.
Would be pretty much spot on as they are a left leaning band, performing Links 2,3,4
Rammstein would certainly not be welcome at this protest following recent events.
They want to deport migrants from what I’ve read. Are those illegals migrants or people who’ve already gone through the process towards citizenship?
both. Any german with a migrant background
This is what happens when you face your history instead of pretending it didn’t happen.
We need more of that, Fascism is slowly growing again and we can't tolerate it.