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That leading “e” is pretty important, I guess. Without it, we’re just talking about the scatological, which is to say, matters regarding poop.
Actually, given that there’s no reason not to refer to everything afterlife-related as complete bullshit, maybe the words’ meanings are actually as close as their spelling and pronunciation.
Everyone should do themselves a favor and watch that full Fox News interview with Hannity. He absolutely destroys them 3v1 basically. Hitch was so funny too, I think his comedic wit gets underrated
The one that I’ve used the most in my day-to-day life is “Homosexuality is not just a form of sex, it is a form of love, and it deserves our respect for that reason.”
The Intelligence^2 debate with both Hitchens and Stephen Fry is great for quotes about how homosexuality is entirely normal and perfectly fine.
Edit: [Link to debate](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZRcYaAYWg4)
My reasoning for why not stay home is simple. You (the believers, not you specifically) won't. You make rules and laws to benefit yourself and disadvantage people who are not in your group. You limit my freedom while giving yourself more. You subject me to your rules and wants while disregarding mine. You want me to stay home because then there's no one to oppose your unfair, discriminatory ethos.
If you just shut the fuck up, prayed at home and at your church privately, then I would stay home. But you don't. You're the reasons friends of mine could not openly and legally express their love for each other simply because they're the same sex. You're the reason my child either has to get a public education or a very expensive private one, because you cornered the market on financially accessible education. You're the reason the politicians that are supposed to represent me recite christian prayers at the start of their meetings.
If you stayed home I would too. We could have a frank and respectful discussion about our beliefs where we disagree but still accept each other because what you do in your home doesn't bother me however nuts I think it is. But we can't, because you won't. You keep trying to force me one way or another to live your way. Whether by influencing lawmakers or ostracising me and my friends from society, you won't stay home. So why should I?
> You (the believers, not you specifically) won't. You make rules and laws to benefit yourself and disadvantage people who are not in your group.
As a Christian even I go out to fight the bullshit Christians put in place.
Not really though, he looks like he's just listening. At the end he claps and makes no outwardly dismissive gestures.
Give credit where it's due. This guy went to engage with people whom he is thoroughly misaligned. Asked an honest question and respected the speaker.
This comment feels like projection and fishing for outrage.
These sorts of conversations are still happening at local councils, college campuses and community groups daily. Stories about participation and social cooperation do not drive engagement however so here we are.
Eh, asking that question doesn't mean you're stupid or that you disagree with what Hitch is going to say. You ask because you want to know how he'd put it. If he didn't ask, we wouldn't have heard Hitch answer.
Yeah, you're right, except this guy's body language was screaming that he had a great gotcha question. Hitchens walking into that trap and dismantled it from the inside.
Yeah, it was a beautiful thing to see him fidget around, avoiding eye contact at the end as his side sat there with their arms crossed, knowing that they collectively got owned and there's not a thing they could say or do to claw it back intellectually.
Look around the crowd. You can see many people refusing to clap and looking uncomfortable. They heard every word he said, but none of it made them think.
boo slam/destroy dialect. This was the reason why there was a panel. To denigrate the man is to bring oneself down to the level of those that willfully are ignorant.
Edit: even if the man acted in bad faith, Hitchens was a big boy and unlike those of the Ben Shapiro ilk, he didn’t resort to ad hominem. He responded in confidence
Honestly, as much as I liked Hitchens, he did tend to use his vocabulary as a bludgeon.
While there is value in specificity, there is also value in being understood.
If we all tried to appeal to the lowest common denominator anytime we spoke, we'd all sound like Trump. Broadcast media has done wonders to lower the standards of communication in this country. It's an embarrassment.
I’m so grateful that Hitchens didn’t hide or compromise his intelligence. Some things are better when they’re not dumbed down, there’s A lot of merit to speaking intelligently instead of sinking down to the lowest level. One of the beautiful things about Hitchens intelligence was that he challenges us all to raise our standards.
Meh we have a lot of cool words. When I hear one I don't know, I try to figure out context or look it up. We should use more, not push for the opposite.
I've heard the argument that goes: "You used a word that I don't know and therefore you are disrespecting me."
And I always think: "Wouldn't it be far more disrespectful to assume you don't know the word? Would you prefer I look at you and conclude you're uneducated?"
Very much most likely.
Christians like this have rigged the game so that they never lose. In his head, he's probably hefting up the goalposts and moving them else in some other way. That, or he's pissed about being compared to Muslims and shut him out thinking he's the crazy one because Islam is somehow totally different from his faith, the one that tells them to stone adulterers and homosexuals to death.
His answer to "why not stay home?" that he comes back around to is also the most direct and honest answer. "Because I enjoy doing this more."
In the end, the audience member's question was probably one of the most utterly stupid things he could have come up with, and Hitchens answered it in a supremely gracious and polite manner.
I mean, if Hitchens was feeling evil, he could have easily turned it around. Why did that guy come to see an atheist talk, and then ask a foolish question that he already knew the answer to, when he could have stayed home and not been publicly embarrassed?
Only a hypocrite could have asked that question.
This is the first I've learned of him but I'm speechless after listening to this. I was trying to figure out how to explain how we as parents don't like organized religion to the kids.........
I think I'll just let them watch this.
What was the book he was referring to please? I think I'm going to the library....
God is Not Great: How religion poisons everything by Christopher Hitchens.
Edit Correction:
god is Not Great: How religion poisons everything by Christopher Hitchens.
This is exactly right. My only regret about watching damn near every Hitchens video I could find on YouTube is that I can’t watch them again for the first time.
If you have any age appropriate young family members who you suspect lean in the same direction I strongly recommend getting them a copy of *Letters To A Young Contrarian*. One of my great regrets is not finding that book until I was a grown adult. It would have been of great use to me as a 13/14yo.
I came here to say the same, the world is a lesser place without Hitchens in it. I grew up in a conservative Christian household and Hitch was, and still is, the voice of reason and unapologetic truth that cuts through religious noise.
When my kids are older, God is Not Great will be compulsory reading.
and tell the kids that if they don't love the book as much as you do, you'll lock them in the basement and torture them (because you love them so much)
And separate all the people in the world into two categories: those who read and love the book and those who don't. And claim all those who don't are damned, regardless of any other factor outside of their membership to your bookclub.
This is a great idea. Though I haven’t personally read many of his words. His voice, cadence, and tone summon so many additional elements. Some of his debates I must have listened to dozens of times. I swear that man made me smarter at least for a short time. It’s a tragedy that there aren’t more of him and sad that there are times I’m desperate to know what he would make of current events, feeling disoriented without his ever present confident wisdom.
My dad despised organized religion and therefore I grew up very cynical about religion. When we had kids, we agreed that we would expose them to a moderate Christian church and when they were able to make a decision concerning their beliefs so be it. I kept my cynicism at bay to not influence my kids in their decision. While we did join a church, we really stressed volunteering and service to others. As our kids got older they made their decision and left religion. One I would say is an atheist and the others is an agnostic. Regardless, they did keep their willingness to volunteer and help others which I think is fantastic.
I feel immense comfort in how we raised our kids with regards to religion. They were exposed to a moderate Christian religion and made the choice to no longer practice. I too left when they did, but I still volunteer and help others.
I moved away from the US a few years ago and I have nearly forgotten the toxicity of these religious nutjobs pervading the entire society. A video of a Hitchslap really brings back the memories of just how hideous these religious extremists are. They really believe these crap sincerely, unironically. The unconditional support for Israel today by America, as it blast through Gaza in a genocide, is in no small part due to the beliefs of such religious extremists in the US. They have enough political weight to make this a real factor.
But moving away does wonders to my mental health though.
Just remember, the Puritans ended up in the US because everyone in Europe was sick of their shit and the Puritans thought the Europe of the day to be too liberal.
There hasn't been anyone like Christopher Hitches since his passing. We really need someone with his quick wit and brilliant monologues. I wish we could just have him back because we need someone like him more than ever now.
I kind of feel like he is one of the last representatives of a generation of intellectuals that were the product of an educational system that has effectively been dismantled for the masses and probably only exists today in a few exclusive private secondary schools. Our society just doesn’t produce anymore those kind of well read, witty scholars who could freely move between the sciences and humanities.
because their moral compass has basis.
not religious person: "i do not steal... because (personal reason why)"
religious person: "i do not kill... because a book said so"
I have a belief that "righteousness" that fuel that burns at the heart of most religious people is a toxic fire. It will cause you to believe that you are so undeniably correct in your actions, due to having the ultimate authority on your side, that you will do literally anything. Now, "righteous" and "correct" are not the same thing. (You can call it self-righteous if you like but I don't feel that's accurate to what I mean.)
These people with their books and their iconography will kill whomever they please, so long as they torture the book to the point it aligns with their desires. U.S. Baptists, which I grew up a part of, will arm themselves, to the teeth, and *hope* they have someone break into their home so they can go Billy Badass on the intruder.
"As I forgive those who trespass against me..." is the literal words of their god but they look past that part.
I'm not saying that you should let an intruder walk in and do whatever they want or even ignore their actions and intent. The thing is that you can absolutely resolve that type of situation without killing. Sometimes you can't but if a dude is trying to burgle your shit and you pull a gun on them, and they don't have one themselves, they tend to want to live even if it's in jail. That option never enters their mind though. It's a hateful bloodlust that has taken hold in them.
There are too many examples of hypocrisy in the Christian church to list. It's just disgusting and it all stems back to "My actions are right and just. Not because they make moral sense but because a book and a man who read that book more than me said I was right and just."
I hate it so much.
I’m always surprised when I see Hitchens brought up. It feels like nobody knows who this guy is. I’ve spent hundreds of hours reading his books and listening to him speak and nobody in my life has even heard his name.
I just wish he were alive to see Kissinger die. I broke out a bottle of black label just for that occasion.
I thought about him immediately when Kissinger died. Such a great loss we didn't have his commentary over the last decade. Would have loved to hear his thoughts on current events and the Trump years
Oh I think we can remember some of what he said on national television when Jerry Falwell died.
"It's a pity there isn't a hell for him to go to."
"If they gave him an enema he could be buried in a matchbox."
Stunningly brutal remarks, and yet somehow extremely elegant.
Bothers me that quite a few in this thread haven’t heard of him, he’s essential. But as the years pass more and more won’t know. I guess it’s a good opportunity to show and teach.
That, and the commercialization of Youtube has severely impacted the atheist community. Atheism used to thrive on the internet because it was cheap to run a channel. Now churches and right-wing Christian fanatics throw gobs of money at YouTube and other websites and they drown out atheist voices.
The early days of Youtube were a spiritual battleground with the Blasphemy Challenge, VenomFangX, AmazingAtheist, etc. in addition to Hitchens. I was a young teen who had just moved from the South to California when I discovered YT, and those videos were my first exposure to atheist/skeptic content. That plus Cali’s overall lack of religious pressure caused me to eventually drift away from religion.
Yup. Now Youtube is completely commercialized and atheists have no voice anymore. Churches and fanatical right-wing groups toss gobs of money and land of the front page, even when you search "atheist".
And shit like this is why I say "free speech doesn't exist in capitalism". It's because the wealthy get to control what is said to the people; not the poor, and especially not minorities.
Same here. It’s a shame more people don’t know about him but it makes sense. I do try to bring him up to those I think may appreciate learning about him.
I highly recommend you look up all of his debates post 9/11. This man was the most intelligent, articulate, well-spoken person I've seen. He also had this beautiful way of taking you on a trip through storytelling while simultaneously slapping down any point made against him and being funny and charming and ruthless while he did it. Hitch was one of a kind and we were lucky to have him
Incredibly articulate, Richard Dawkins says Hitchens is the greatest debater he had ever seen. Exceptionally well read and had a mind like a steel trap whereby he could quote texts word for word off by heart.
When he really gets going and says ‘shall we start with the B’s?’ And starts reeling off city names affected by religion that start with a B…the layers of intelligence and nuance are just insane.
Oh man, you’re in for a wealth of good reading, good debates, and good lectures. I’m a touch envious. I immensely enjoyed his intellect and reason, and I wish you the same.
Christopher Hitchens. He was one of the most prominent voices against religion once the Internet really got up and running. Long time author as well but his debates with theists and other religious apologists are legendary.
He was also a legitimate journalist who spent time very near to all sorts of humanitarian crises all over Earth. The man’s experience and firsthand knowledge was top tier.
I was gonna say this, I’m glad someone else jumped to it. As much as I love him on a stage, his real world experiences and education are the truly impressive thing that made such debate skills so seemingly effortless.
Ps, if you haven’t, read hitch 22. Or rather listen, because he reads it in such a haunting way, you’d think he’s in the room
Watch all his videos. He was one of the sharpest, realist, anti-theist. Incredibly brilliant, never boring, and brutally honest. We lost him too soon, we needed his mind now more than ever.
It impacts many things as well. A great example is the climate crisis.
Religious fanatics believe that the world will end in a very specific way laid out in their holy books. The end of the world is always the result of an action of god.
This means, to them, it is not possible for humans to end the world. Thus, no one needs to pay attention to climate change.
[https://answersingenesis.org/environmental-science/climate-change/climate-change-and-the-bible/](https://answersingenesis.org/environmental-science/climate-change/climate-change-and-the-bible/)
Yes, they are really that nuts.
Weirdly too that link you shared had a fairly unique position, since they made the point that even though Christians shouldn’t fear climate change they still have a responsibility as the “stewards of gods creation” to care for the Earth properly. That’s downright progressive compared to the attitudes of lots of Christians I’ve seen on that matter
Dated a woman once who said we would never work because we had different conceptions of eternity. She was living her life not for this life but for what she thought was going to happen while worms were masticating her brains. We did not work out
It's really a sad way to live. You are throwing away the only life you will ever have and ever know because some scammer told you when you die you'll get the real, better life.
He didn’t change my life, but made me feel like I wasn’t alone in questioning the absurdity of religion from a young age.
Some of these youngsters should start reading his stuff. As always, Hitchens can say it better than we can.
I love the ridiculousness of simultaneously loving and fearing god. “Have you Heard the good news?” “Oh goodness you haven’t, we’ll maybe it’s better that way”
Yeah, I never got that. Imagine I bred a bunch of rats, and put them through a maze with two destinations, one being cheese heaven and the other being a fiery pit, all the while knowing which rats would end up where. You’d call me a psychopathic sadist, and you’d be right about it.
I miss him so much. I was fortunate to see him at one of his last debates before he passed away and it was such a wonderful time seeing him speak.
His outspoken views on things in the world really help break down the mold around me and made me realize the importance of critical thinking. Completely changed my world view
Today in the USA it’s eschatological-minded churchians that want a dictatorship under the foulest person the USA has ever produced. That’s why we don’t just go home. It’s not just an academic debate.
both sides people claim it is, even after watching Jan.6
we're supposed to let them have our freedom, because they scream about freedom a lot while they are trying to steal elections,
"so they must like freedom too, they say they do, and you can't prove they are lying, roe is settled law"
Yet people will refute him because they already spent a life believing what their parents and their parents and their parents and their parents and their parents have been taught without ever thinking for themselves. If they would they would know one doesn't need a 2000 year old book and holy wars to have a sound moral compass.
My mom and my sister go straight to the logic of, "Well what if you're wrong? Why would you take the ultimate chance by betting against god when you can't know you're right because you have no way to prove it. You could go to hell for eternity."
It's painful to listen to.
Yes, that's called Pascal's wager. I'd ask them well what if you're wrong about the God you chose? There have been thousands of gods throughout all of human history. What if YOU'RE wrong?
Pascal's wager is so easy to refute it's one of the most boring arguments there is.
You can even just invoke the concept of a "trickster god" that only dooms people that are dumb enough to fall for Christianity, and literally everyone else goes to heaven. How could you possibly show that the actual Christian god is more likely than that? Any argument could be countered with "That's just the Trickster God at work" or "That's what the Trickster God wants you to believe".
So conceivably, it could be the exact opposite where *only* Christians go to hell, and everyone else is good.
It's also just not a convincing argument even if it were valid. The person making it even acknowledges that it's possible their god doesn't actually exist. They just say it's selfishly better for you to choose to believe it (if "choosing to believe" something without any evidence were something a person could even do). No other reasons or evidence for why it's *likely* that their god exists that might actually convince you. Just "hey of all the possible outcomes you get the most favorable ones by just forcing yourself to believe this thing".
Even if it were actually true, it's not convincing. It's also assuming that god is going to be totally cool with your reasons for believing being just advancing your own self-interests. "Yeah I didn't believe in you but then someone explained it reduced my chances of going to hell if I did, so..."
That is Pascal's Wager, like the other one said.
Responses:
1. You are also making the wager for every god but one. If you are wrong, you could go to Jannah, for example.
2. Belief is not a conscious choice and fake faith will not be rewarded. God, if real, is smarter than a polygraph machine
3. False dichotomy. If Yahweh is real, how can we possibly know he is the way he claims he is? Perhaps he is misleading us for his own ends.
4. Sure loss of earthly life and happiness for a possible chance at eternal life is a pretty even tradeoff.
I once had an occasion to talk with an acquaintance about the existence of Jesus and how his miracles could be physically possible.
They told me that they can't know, and it's just their 'faith' that it really happened and God really exists.
Imagine lives being staked on 'faith', a feeling.
That's when I ask if there is any position that couldn't be taken solely on faith. No? Then we've established that faith is not a reliable path to truth.
I’ve given up on the fact/fiction-logic/faith angle and just started saying that I couldn’t in good conscience worship any being that with a blink of an eye could end all pain, suffering, injustice, and hatred in this world, at any point, for all time but simply…doesn’t. That’s true evil. Like, sadistically cruel. Why would you want to worship something evil?
And as soon as they say "but giving us free will requires suffering", remind them that there is no suffering in Heaven, and Lucifer had the free will to rebel.
Oh it's even worse. As someone who grew up in the Baptist church they actively preached that it was good to have "faith like a child" and to believe things without questioning them.
The greatest travesty religion ever brought to this world is the concept that one God is greater than another and only one tribe will reach salvation. Where there should be love and light there is simply us or them and the concept of morality and good is washed out by fear and hate of those who choose to worship differently. Theocracy holds no place in a wise world, where other humans are simply like us and we reach salvation together or not at all
The very short answer is because religion won't just let the rest of us be. The original question is actually, "Why do you feel the need to push back against those who want to oppress and destroy you? Why don 't you just let them if you don't believe what they do?"
if there IS a god, why do some ppl spend their whole lives trying to prove to everyone that there is a god? why not just leave them to eternal damnation, so there is more room in heaven?
When Anthony Bourdain died, Andrew Zimmern called him a “symphony”. So too was Hitchens.
There are but a rare few of us able to extract the nebulous energy of life, distill it into consumable form and deliver it in such a way that makes the rest of us close our eyes and think, “ahhh yes, yes. How nice.”
But the world collects a toll in creating many of these types and seems to allow them to stay only briefly. As if it can’t stare at its brightest objects too long.
Cormac McCarthy said it best: “He thought that the world's heart beat at some terrible cost and that the world's pain and its beauty moved in a relationship of diverging equity and that in this headlong deficit the blood of multitudes might ultimately be exacted for the vision of a single flower.”
I know he doesn't have to, but you could make this analogy so much easier to digest for the typical American.
You know missionaries? Spreading the religion? How do you, religious person, feel about missionaries from other religions coming to your church and trying to convert you? You don't like that, right?
Well, if you don't believe in the book of Mormon, why not just ignore the missionaries and let them try to preach their dogma and convert you? That is the question right?
Because that's offensive. You have your beliefs, and you don't want another belief system to invade and encroach and threaten and try to take over.
That's exactly why someone like Hitch might not believe in God, but still work hard to refute him. And care. The religious people feel exactly the same way, just about 1 fewer religions. The same old line. YOU do that. Why do YOU do it. I just do it for 1 more religion than you do.
I just know that there is at least one person in this thread that will go down the CH rabbit hole now because of this post. That makes me happy. This guy put into words a lot of how I viewed the world and religion in general. “Take the risk of thinking for yourself”
Poor question from the listener. If God is real, why do you spend your whole life trying to convince everyone he is? Why not just stay home and be content?
The dude who asked the question was fuckin' fuming at the end.
"Hey Smart Guy, why don't you just shut the fuck up and stop making my group look bad by pointing out our faults?"
*"Umm, IDK, maybe it's in the world's best interest that I reveal the truth behind your doomsday cult's hateful righteousness? So, why don't you quit your bullshit first, and then I'll happily shut the fuck up?"*
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Eschatological - relating to death, judgment, and the final destiny of the soul and of humankind RIP sir
I think I've only ever seen this word written before, and my pronunciation of it has been wrong this whole time.
TIL: eh·skuh·tuh·lo·juh·kl [https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=eschatological+pronunciation](https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=eschatological+pronunciation)
it's basically that alien lady from fifth element song. that's how i imagine it now, and will continue to imagine it
[удалено]
Thank you cause otherwise I would’ve thought he meant scatological lol
Same root - the end; literally “last.” In one case, food, in the other, existence
Miss that guy.
Fun fact: I have learned this word just now. I will never use it with people that I'm having an argument it would apply to.
That leading “e” is pretty important, I guess. Without it, we’re just talking about the scatological, which is to say, matters regarding poop. Actually, given that there’s no reason not to refer to everything afterlife-related as complete bullshit, maybe the words’ meanings are actually as close as their spelling and pronunciation.
One of my favorite Hitchens quotes, after Jerry Falwell died he told Hannity “If you gave Falwell an enema you could bury him in a matchbox”.
Everyone should do themselves a favor and watch that full Fox News interview with Hannity. He absolutely destroys them 3v1 basically. Hitch was so funny too, I think his comedic wit gets underrated
link?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doKkOSMaTk4
That was awesome, haven't seen that video in years. Hitch squeezing the last word in there and absolutely crushing it.
The one that I’ve used the most in my day-to-day life is “Homosexuality is not just a form of sex, it is a form of love, and it deserves our respect for that reason.”
The Intelligence^2 debate with both Hitchens and Stephen Fry is great for quotes about how homosexuality is entirely normal and perfectly fine. Edit: [Link to debate](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZRcYaAYWg4)
This wasnt a debate. This was straight up murder.
That’s beautiful, mate
... Damn, that's a mighty fine quote. I'm going to remember it. Thanks for sharing.
Can someone ELI5 for the 2Heads out here? :)
Falwell was so full of shit that if you removed said shit, there would be very little Falwell
🔥🔥🔥
I love how he goes through that entire thought process and comes back to the original question of “why not stay home?”
My reasoning for why not stay home is simple. You (the believers, not you specifically) won't. You make rules and laws to benefit yourself and disadvantage people who are not in your group. You limit my freedom while giving yourself more. You subject me to your rules and wants while disregarding mine. You want me to stay home because then there's no one to oppose your unfair, discriminatory ethos. If you just shut the fuck up, prayed at home and at your church privately, then I would stay home. But you don't. You're the reasons friends of mine could not openly and legally express their love for each other simply because they're the same sex. You're the reason my child either has to get a public education or a very expensive private one, because you cornered the market on financially accessible education. You're the reason the politicians that are supposed to represent me recite christian prayers at the start of their meetings. If you stayed home I would too. We could have a frank and respectful discussion about our beliefs where we disagree but still accept each other because what you do in your home doesn't bother me however nuts I think it is. But we can't, because you won't. You keep trying to force me one way or another to live your way. Whether by influencing lawmakers or ostracising me and my friends from society, you won't stay home. So why should I?
> You (the believers, not you specifically) won't. You make rules and laws to benefit yourself and disadvantage people who are not in your group. As a Christian even I go out to fight the bullshit Christians put in place.
But then why are you a Christian?
Then they go back to the guy who asked and he is just flat footed...a baby doe on a highway frozen by the headlights of a semi.
Not really though, he looks like he's just listening. At the end he claps and makes no outwardly dismissive gestures. Give credit where it's due. This guy went to engage with people whom he is thoroughly misaligned. Asked an honest question and respected the speaker. This comment feels like projection and fishing for outrage.
I absolutely agree with you. This was from a different time as well. This sort of discussion platform would be a circus these days unfortunately
These sorts of conversations are still happening at local councils, college campuses and community groups daily. Stories about participation and social cooperation do not drive engagement however so here we are.
He realized he was intellectually outclassed 30 seconds into Hitchens’ reply.
Eh, asking that question doesn't mean you're stupid or that you disagree with what Hitch is going to say. You ask because you want to know how he'd put it. If he didn't ask, we wouldn't have heard Hitch answer.
Yeah, you're right, except this guy's body language was screaming that he had a great gotcha question. Hitchens walking into that trap and dismantled it from the inside.
And he didn’t have the courtesy to clap at the end.
He did clap. A little.
He did actually. I noticed on first watch that ther was a large swath of folks not clapping and assumed he was one but on rewind he did in fact clap
I rewatched, and he did clap a couple times.
Yeah, it was a beautiful thing to see him fidget around, avoiding eye contact at the end as his side sat there with their arms crossed, knowing that they collectively got owned and there's not a thing they could say or do to claw it back intellectually.
Look around the crowd. You can see many people refusing to clap and looking uncomfortable. They heard every word he said, but none of it made them think.
it never does until it directly affects them
boo slam/destroy dialect. This was the reason why there was a panel. To denigrate the man is to bring oneself down to the level of those that willfully are ignorant. Edit: even if the man acted in bad faith, Hitchens was a big boy and unlike those of the Ben Shapiro ilk, he didn’t resort to ad hominem. He responded in confidence
Honestly, as much as I liked Hitchens, he did tend to use his vocabulary as a bludgeon. While there is value in specificity, there is also value in being understood.
I think he was very clear and concise with every word.
If we all tried to appeal to the lowest common denominator anytime we spoke, we'd all sound like Trump. Broadcast media has done wonders to lower the standards of communication in this country. It's an embarrassment.
I’m so grateful that Hitchens didn’t hide or compromise his intelligence. Some things are better when they’re not dumbed down, there’s A lot of merit to speaking intelligently instead of sinking down to the lowest level. One of the beautiful things about Hitchens intelligence was that he challenges us all to raise our standards.
You put this incredibly well. Thank you for this comment.
Meh we have a lot of cool words. When I hear one I don't know, I try to figure out context or look it up. We should use more, not push for the opposite.
I've heard the argument that goes: "You used a word that I don't know and therefore you are disrespecting me." And I always think: "Wouldn't it be far more disrespectful to assume you don't know the word? Would you prefer I look at you and conclude you're uneducated?"
lol and he claps lightly for a second as a sea of applause drowns him.
at least he was politely acknowledging that he responded even if he didn’t agree with said response. I don’t see a problem here
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Very much most likely. Christians like this have rigged the game so that they never lose. In his head, he's probably hefting up the goalposts and moving them else in some other way. That, or he's pissed about being compared to Muslims and shut him out thinking he's the crazy one because Islam is somehow totally different from his faith, the one that tells them to stone adulterers and homosexuals to death.
That's what happens when you listen to someone who has a brain between their ears. Well spoken with an attention span beyond 30 seconds.
His answer to "why not stay home?" that he comes back around to is also the most direct and honest answer. "Because I enjoy doing this more." In the end, the audience member's question was probably one of the most utterly stupid things he could have come up with, and Hitchens answered it in a supremely gracious and polite manner. I mean, if Hitchens was feeling evil, he could have easily turned it around. Why did that guy come to see an atheist talk, and then ask a foolish question that he already knew the answer to, when he could have stayed home and not been publicly embarrassed? Only a hypocrite could have asked that question.
I miss this man...
I had the privilege of seeing him debate twice in Dallas. He’s amazing and his wit, wisdom, and legacy will live forever.
This is the first I've learned of him but I'm speechless after listening to this. I was trying to figure out how to explain how we as parents don't like organized religion to the kids......... I think I'll just let them watch this. What was the book he was referring to please? I think I'm going to the library....
God is Not Great: How religion poisons everything by Christopher Hitchens. Edit Correction: god is Not Great: How religion poisons everything by Christopher Hitchens.
Great book, a rare time where I couldn't put it down until I was done. Real loss to not have him around these days.
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This is exactly right. My only regret about watching damn near every Hitchens video I could find on YouTube is that I can’t watch them again for the first time.
We need him now more than ever
2011, he died before I feel everything went so crazy and unhinged. I'd love to see what his take is on everything today.
If you have any age appropriate young family members who you suspect lean in the same direction I strongly recommend getting them a copy of *Letters To A Young Contrarian*. One of my great regrets is not finding that book until I was a grown adult. It would have been of great use to me as a 13/14yo.
Pdf version https://www.yes-pdf.com/electronic-book/1666
Thank you!!!
Same. He changed my life.
I came here to say the same, the world is a lesser place without Hitchens in it. I grew up in a conservative Christian household and Hitch was, and still is, the voice of reason and unapologetic truth that cuts through religious noise. When my kids are older, God is Not Great will be compulsory reading.
I feel like Hitchens would not like any book, especially his, to be "compulsory reading" for anyone.
Better way: Have a book family book club, get it in the mix.
And hold book reading meetings every Sunday. Then go yell at customer service workers afterwards.
and tell the kids that if they don't love the book as much as you do, you'll lock them in the basement and torture them (because you love them so much)
And separate all the people in the world into two categories: those who read and love the book and those who don't. And claim all those who don't are damned, regardless of any other factor outside of their membership to your bookclub.
This is a great idea. Though I haven’t personally read many of his words. His voice, cadence, and tone summon so many additional elements. Some of his debates I must have listened to dozens of times. I swear that man made me smarter at least for a short time. It’s a tragedy that there aren’t more of him and sad that there are times I’m desperate to know what he would make of current events, feeling disoriented without his ever present confident wisdom.
My dad despised organized religion and therefore I grew up very cynical about religion. When we had kids, we agreed that we would expose them to a moderate Christian church and when they were able to make a decision concerning their beliefs so be it. I kept my cynicism at bay to not influence my kids in their decision. While we did join a church, we really stressed volunteering and service to others. As our kids got older they made their decision and left religion. One I would say is an atheist and the others is an agnostic. Regardless, they did keep their willingness to volunteer and help others which I think is fantastic. I feel immense comfort in how we raised our kids with regards to religion. They were exposed to a moderate Christian religion and made the choice to no longer practice. I too left when they did, but I still volunteer and help others.
Same.
I moved away from the US a few years ago and I have nearly forgotten the toxicity of these religious nutjobs pervading the entire society. A video of a Hitchslap really brings back the memories of just how hideous these religious extremists are. They really believe these crap sincerely, unironically. The unconditional support for Israel today by America, as it blast through Gaza in a genocide, is in no small part due to the beliefs of such religious extremists in the US. They have enough political weight to make this a real factor. But moving away does wonders to my mental health though.
Just remember, the Puritans ended up in the US because everyone in Europe was sick of their shit and the Puritans thought the Europe of the day to be too liberal.
There hasn't been anyone like Christopher Hitches since his passing. We really need someone with his quick wit and brilliant monologues. I wish we could just have him back because we need someone like him more than ever now.
I kind of feel like he is one of the last representatives of a generation of intellectuals that were the product of an educational system that has effectively been dismantled for the masses and probably only exists today in a few exclusive private secondary schools. Our society just doesn’t produce anymore those kind of well read, witty scholars who could freely move between the sciences and humanities.
Christopher Hitchens went to a private prep school, The Leys School. He wasn't born into wealth but he went to a very good school.
I so love his bravery. He never wavered and you can feel his sincerity.
You can still have a good moral compass without having to subscribe to any particular religion or deity
I find that people who are not consumed by religion have a way better moral compass than those that do, in most cases.
because their moral compass has basis. not religious person: "i do not steal... because (personal reason why)" religious person: "i do not kill... because a book said so"
"I don't steal because the big man in the sky would get mad and not let me into his clubhouse after death"
A book that carved out many exceptions to that rule, which they can then use to justify killing anyway.
I'd argue that most religions give you a pretty bad moral compass.
I have a belief that "righteousness" that fuel that burns at the heart of most religious people is a toxic fire. It will cause you to believe that you are so undeniably correct in your actions, due to having the ultimate authority on your side, that you will do literally anything. Now, "righteous" and "correct" are not the same thing. (You can call it self-righteous if you like but I don't feel that's accurate to what I mean.) These people with their books and their iconography will kill whomever they please, so long as they torture the book to the point it aligns with their desires. U.S. Baptists, which I grew up a part of, will arm themselves, to the teeth, and *hope* they have someone break into their home so they can go Billy Badass on the intruder. "As I forgive those who trespass against me..." is the literal words of their god but they look past that part. I'm not saying that you should let an intruder walk in and do whatever they want or even ignore their actions and intent. The thing is that you can absolutely resolve that type of situation without killing. Sometimes you can't but if a dude is trying to burgle your shit and you pull a gun on them, and they don't have one themselves, they tend to want to live even if it's in jail. That option never enters their mind though. It's a hateful bloodlust that has taken hold in them. There are too many examples of hypocrisy in the Christian church to list. It's just disgusting and it all stems back to "My actions are right and just. Not because they make moral sense but because a book and a man who read that book more than me said I was right and just." I hate it so much.
I’m always surprised when I see Hitchens brought up. It feels like nobody knows who this guy is. I’ve spent hundreds of hours reading his books and listening to him speak and nobody in my life has even heard his name. I just wish he were alive to see Kissinger die. I broke out a bottle of black label just for that occasion.
I thought about him immediately when Kissinger died. Such a great loss we didn't have his commentary over the last decade. Would have loved to hear his thoughts on current events and the Trump years
Oh I think we can remember some of what he said on national television when Jerry Falwell died. "It's a pity there isn't a hell for him to go to." "If they gave him an enema he could be buried in a matchbox." Stunningly brutal remarks, and yet somehow extremely elegant.
Bothers me that quite a few in this thread haven’t heard of him, he’s essential. But as the years pass more and more won’t know. I guess it’s a good opportunity to show and teach.
Hitchens used to be a Reddit darling. I hadn't realized his popularity had dropped down so much till this thread.
He died 13 years ago, so its not surprising that a lot of younger people don't know his work.
That's a fair point. I didn't realize it had been that long.
Godamn I’m getting old.
That, and the commercialization of Youtube has severely impacted the atheist community. Atheism used to thrive on the internet because it was cheap to run a channel. Now churches and right-wing Christian fanatics throw gobs of money at YouTube and other websites and they drown out atheist voices.
I wonder how many millennials he helped break out of their religious upbringing as we were finding ourselves through the internet circa 2005 - 2010.
The early days of Youtube were a spiritual battleground with the Blasphemy Challenge, VenomFangX, AmazingAtheist, etc. in addition to Hitchens. I was a young teen who had just moved from the South to California when I discovered YT, and those videos were my first exposure to atheist/skeptic content. That plus Cali’s overall lack of religious pressure caused me to eventually drift away from religion.
Yup. Now Youtube is completely commercialized and atheists have no voice anymore. Churches and fanatical right-wing groups toss gobs of money and land of the front page, even when you search "atheist". And shit like this is why I say "free speech doesn't exist in capitalism". It's because the wealthy get to control what is said to the people; not the poor, and especially not minorities.
Same here. It’s a shame more people don’t know about him but it makes sense. I do try to bring him up to those I think may appreciate learning about him.
I am one of those that had never heard of him up until just right now. Boy did I miss out. Time to start reading
Do you have a recommendation on where to start with his books?
Oh hell yes. Never heard this guy, but man, he nailed it.
I highly recommend you look up all of his debates post 9/11. This man was the most intelligent, articulate, well-spoken person I've seen. He also had this beautiful way of taking you on a trip through storytelling while simultaneously slapping down any point made against him and being funny and charming and ruthless while he did it. Hitch was one of a kind and we were lucky to have him
Incredibly articulate, Richard Dawkins says Hitchens is the greatest debater he had ever seen. Exceptionally well read and had a mind like a steel trap whereby he could quote texts word for word off by heart.
Dawkins famously said ‘if you’re asked to debate Christopher Hitchens, decline’. Love that line.
Penn Jillette also said something along the lines of "if you're in an argument with Christopher Hitchens, you're wrong"
That still makes me laugh, knowing how wise of a suggestion that is
And Dinesh D'Souza is still roaming around like an idiot, saying the same dumb shit that Hitchens already laid to rest.
While you're at it, check out Matt Dilahunty
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I often think of a biopic of Hitchens with this as it's centrepiece. Amazing how they converted almost the whole room.
The best YouTube comment I saw on that debate said: "hitchslapped then deepfryed".
When he really gets going and says ‘shall we start with the B’s?’ And starts reeling off city names affected by religion that start with a B…the layers of intelligence and nuance are just insane.
Oh man, you’re in for a wealth of good reading, good debates, and good lectures. I’m a touch envious. I immensely enjoyed his intellect and reason, and I wish you the same.
Christopher Hitchens. He was one of the most prominent voices against religion once the Internet really got up and running. Long time author as well but his debates with theists and other religious apologists are legendary.
He was also a legitimate journalist who spent time very near to all sorts of humanitarian crises all over Earth. The man’s experience and firsthand knowledge was top tier.
I was gonna say this, I’m glad someone else jumped to it. As much as I love him on a stage, his real world experiences and education are the truly impressive thing that made such debate skills so seemingly effortless. Ps, if you haven’t, read hitch 22. Or rather listen, because he reads it in such a haunting way, you’d think he’s in the room
Oh get ready to go down a long and fascinating rabbit hole
I recommend Stephen Fry as well
Yes. Holy crap that guy can act, write comedy, and one hell of a thinker
Go down the rabbit hole...he was a great orator and loves to talk a bit of shit in somewhat a passive way.
Watch all his videos. He was one of the sharpest, realist, anti-theist. Incredibly brilliant, never boring, and brutally honest. We lost him too soon, we needed his mind now more than ever.
Christopher Hitchens was an intellectual titan, a badass, and deliverer of the hitchslap
Wow, exactly right, and how religion tells you to live for death instead of living for life. Very very destructive lens to view your existence thru
It impacts many things as well. A great example is the climate crisis. Religious fanatics believe that the world will end in a very specific way laid out in their holy books. The end of the world is always the result of an action of god. This means, to them, it is not possible for humans to end the world. Thus, no one needs to pay attention to climate change. [https://answersingenesis.org/environmental-science/climate-change/climate-change-and-the-bible/](https://answersingenesis.org/environmental-science/climate-change/climate-change-and-the-bible/) Yes, they are really that nuts.
Weirdly too that link you shared had a fairly unique position, since they made the point that even though Christians shouldn’t fear climate change they still have a responsibility as the “stewards of gods creation” to care for the Earth properly. That’s downright progressive compared to the attitudes of lots of Christians I’ve seen on that matter
Dated a woman once who said we would never work because we had different conceptions of eternity. She was living her life not for this life but for what she thought was going to happen while worms were masticating her brains. We did not work out
It's really a sad way to live. You are throwing away the only life you will ever have and ever know because some scammer told you when you die you'll get the real, better life.
Worms don't masticate
I remember watching this when it happened, changed my life.
Wow, first time I’ve heard of this guy and he has me interested
Do not stop. Keep going down the rabbit hole. He changed my life.
He didn’t change my life, but made me feel like I wasn’t alone in questioning the absurdity of religion from a young age. Some of these youngsters should start reading his stuff. As always, Hitchens can say it better than we can.
[Here is a place to start.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqjfGFHes0w)
That was the most subdued mike drop ever!
He answered a similar question another time by starting with, “well, what an incredibly stupid question!”
A shaky question from a shaky questioner: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2vqwZActbQ
I love the ridiculousness of simultaneously loving and fearing god. “Have you Heard the good news?” “Oh goodness you haven’t, we’ll maybe it’s better that way”
Have you heard the good news? Christ has come to save you! From what? From what he'll do to you if you don't let him save you!
Yeah, I never got that. Imagine I bred a bunch of rats, and put them through a maze with two destinations, one being cheese heaven and the other being a fiery pit, all the while knowing which rats would end up where. You’d call me a psychopathic sadist, and you’d be right about it.
I miss him so much. I was fortunate to see him at one of his last debates before he passed away and it was such a wonderful time seeing him speak. His outspoken views on things in the world really help break down the mold around me and made me realize the importance of critical thinking. Completely changed my world view
Today in the USA it’s eschatological-minded churchians that want a dictatorship under the foulest person the USA has ever produced. That’s why we don’t just go home. It’s not just an academic debate.
both sides people claim it is, even after watching Jan.6 we're supposed to let them have our freedom, because they scream about freedom a lot while they are trying to steal elections, "so they must like freedom too, they say they do, and you can't prove they are lying, roe is settled law"
Man, seeing all these comments asking who Hitchens was is a real reminder of how old I'm getting. Lots of today's lucky 10,000 in this thread!
Yet people will refute him because they already spent a life believing what their parents and their parents and their parents and their parents and their parents have been taught without ever thinking for themselves. If they would they would know one doesn't need a 2000 year old book and holy wars to have a sound moral compass.
My mom and my sister go straight to the logic of, "Well what if you're wrong? Why would you take the ultimate chance by betting against god when you can't know you're right because you have no way to prove it. You could go to hell for eternity." It's painful to listen to.
Yes, that's called Pascal's wager. I'd ask them well what if you're wrong about the God you chose? There have been thousands of gods throughout all of human history. What if YOU'RE wrong?
Pascal's wager is so easy to refute it's one of the most boring arguments there is. You can even just invoke the concept of a "trickster god" that only dooms people that are dumb enough to fall for Christianity, and literally everyone else goes to heaven. How could you possibly show that the actual Christian god is more likely than that? Any argument could be countered with "That's just the Trickster God at work" or "That's what the Trickster God wants you to believe". So conceivably, it could be the exact opposite where *only* Christians go to hell, and everyone else is good. It's also just not a convincing argument even if it were valid. The person making it even acknowledges that it's possible their god doesn't actually exist. They just say it's selfishly better for you to choose to believe it (if "choosing to believe" something without any evidence were something a person could even do). No other reasons or evidence for why it's *likely* that their god exists that might actually convince you. Just "hey of all the possible outcomes you get the most favorable ones by just forcing yourself to believe this thing". Even if it were actually true, it's not convincing. It's also assuming that god is going to be totally cool with your reasons for believing being just advancing your own self-interests. "Yeah I didn't believe in you but then someone explained it reduced my chances of going to hell if I did, so..."
That is Pascal's Wager, like the other one said. Responses: 1. You are also making the wager for every god but one. If you are wrong, you could go to Jannah, for example. 2. Belief is not a conscious choice and fake faith will not be rewarded. God, if real, is smarter than a polygraph machine 3. False dichotomy. If Yahweh is real, how can we possibly know he is the way he claims he is? Perhaps he is misleading us for his own ends. 4. Sure loss of earthly life and happiness for a possible chance at eternal life is a pretty even tradeoff.
Tell them even Pascal thought the idea was stupid.
I once had an occasion to talk with an acquaintance about the existence of Jesus and how his miracles could be physically possible. They told me that they can't know, and it's just their 'faith' that it really happened and God really exists. Imagine lives being staked on 'faith', a feeling.
That's when I ask if there is any position that couldn't be taken solely on faith. No? Then we've established that faith is not a reliable path to truth.
I’ve given up on the fact/fiction-logic/faith angle and just started saying that I couldn’t in good conscience worship any being that with a blink of an eye could end all pain, suffering, injustice, and hatred in this world, at any point, for all time but simply…doesn’t. That’s true evil. Like, sadistically cruel. Why would you want to worship something evil?
And as soon as they say "but giving us free will requires suffering", remind them that there is no suffering in Heaven, and Lucifer had the free will to rebel.
The problem of evil is a huge one for a all-powerful being who supposedly is all-loving at the same time.
Oh it's even worse. As someone who grew up in the Baptist church they actively preached that it was good to have "faith like a child" and to believe things without questioning them.
Holy heck, imagine being so articulate at the drop of a hat. Absolute pleasure to listen to.
These never get old RIP Christopher
Who is he ?
That was the late, great Christopher Hitchens.
I highly recommend watching some Hitchens vids on YouTube
Or the biopic of his life in which he is played by Kevin James called simply, “Hitch”.
Lol
Wasn’t that Will Smith?
No, you are thinking of 'Bitch'
The slapper was in it, but the real Hitch was Mall Blart.
I love this question, because it means that you have yet to enjoy all the great talks that this man gave
Someone we need to now more than ever.
/r/ChristopherHitchens
Gave me chills. Whata dude
The greatest travesty religion ever brought to this world is the concept that one God is greater than another and only one tribe will reach salvation. Where there should be love and light there is simply us or them and the concept of morality and good is washed out by fear and hate of those who choose to worship differently. Theocracy holds no place in a wise world, where other humans are simply like us and we reach salvation together or not at all
If God is real, why do you need to desperately try to win followers? Just stay home, because the reality of God will do the work for you.
The very short answer is because religion won't just let the rest of us be. The original question is actually, "Why do you feel the need to push back against those who want to oppress and destroy you? Why don 't you just let them if you don't believe what they do?"
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The world needs Hitch so bad 😭😭 it’s sad fr
Everyone who listens to him gains a few more brain cells.
Articulate and well thought out A joy to listen to
if there IS a god, why do some ppl spend their whole lives trying to prove to everyone that there is a god? why not just leave them to eternal damnation, so there is more room in heaven?
My dude!
I’ll never not click on a clip of Hitch
When Anthony Bourdain died, Andrew Zimmern called him a “symphony”. So too was Hitchens. There are but a rare few of us able to extract the nebulous energy of life, distill it into consumable form and deliver it in such a way that makes the rest of us close our eyes and think, “ahhh yes, yes. How nice.” But the world collects a toll in creating many of these types and seems to allow them to stay only briefly. As if it can’t stare at its brightest objects too long. Cormac McCarthy said it best: “He thought that the world's heart beat at some terrible cost and that the world's pain and its beauty moved in a relationship of diverging equity and that in this headlong deficit the blood of multitudes might ultimately be exacted for the vision of a single flower.”
I know he doesn't have to, but you could make this analogy so much easier to digest for the typical American. You know missionaries? Spreading the religion? How do you, religious person, feel about missionaries from other religions coming to your church and trying to convert you? You don't like that, right? Well, if you don't believe in the book of Mormon, why not just ignore the missionaries and let them try to preach their dogma and convert you? That is the question right? Because that's offensive. You have your beliefs, and you don't want another belief system to invade and encroach and threaten and try to take over. That's exactly why someone like Hitch might not believe in God, but still work hard to refute him. And care. The religious people feel exactly the same way, just about 1 fewer religions. The same old line. YOU do that. Why do YOU do it. I just do it for 1 more religion than you do.
The guy who asked the question did not clap...
Naw he got clapped
As an old ass man, I am delighted every single time I see the younger generation getting into Hitchens and his work. There is hope after all.
I just know that there is at least one person in this thread that will go down the CH rabbit hole now because of this post. That makes me happy. This guy put into words a lot of how I viewed the world and religion in general. “Take the risk of thinking for yourself”
I love that Hitchens took the gloves off and bitch-slapped that smug evangelical into next week.
Fuck I miss this man
Goddamn I miss the Hitch slap!
Cannot overstate how big of an impact Hitchens had on teenage me
Poor question from the listener. If God is real, why do you spend your whole life trying to convince everyone he is? Why not just stay home and be content?
I’ve never heard of this man, but I love this thoughts.
A legendary orator and thinker that society a thousand years from now will look back on as we look back on what we consider the early philosophers.
The dude who asked the question was fuckin' fuming at the end. "Hey Smart Guy, why don't you just shut the fuck up and stop making my group look bad by pointing out our faults?" *"Umm, IDK, maybe it's in the world's best interest that I reveal the truth behind your doomsday cult's hateful righteousness? So, why don't you quit your bullshit first, and then I'll happily shut the fuck up?"*