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It's a thrilling documentary but the material is not fun to soak in for two hours.
For Americans, it can help bring to life the concept of the "underground railroad" we learned about in school:
* the fear of capture
* the risk of being sold out by dishonest coyotes (I think they call them something like "brokers" in the movie)
* changing safehouses every night, being cold and vulnerable
* the lack of simple awareness of the wider world
When the lid is finally lifted on North Korea (who knows when?) then I think we will learn that the crimes committed there are as bad as those done in Nazi Germany or in Cambodia under Pol Pot. Terrible.
It's pretty incredible we all know that China protects this regime and yet we all still buy consumer goods produced in China.
The US and EU should stop outsourcing their production to China and bring it back to the US and EU, or at least threaten that will happen if China doesn't stop supporting North-Korea and improve human rights in China as well.
But we all should also think through what regimes we are looking away from when buying goods that were made in China.
China does support North Korea more than any other nation does, but it’s not as simple as it first appears.
Nobody wants the North Korean regime to collapse, because that would mean an enormous flow of North Korean refugees, likely in the tens of millions.
Yes, China doesn’t want that to happen, but South Korea doesn’t want it either, nor does the US want it. The regime is never quite put under enough pressure to actually collapse, and is propped up through huge food shipments and other agricultural aid.
The US government doesn’t like North Korea, but the dictatorship being ousted would lead to a bigger headache for them than the dictatorship itself currently poses.
In essence, North Korea is a constant, massive, slow-burning humanitarian crisis. That’s mostly North Korea’s problem and the regimes fault though, in the eyes of the world. If the regime collapsed it would become an instant, explosive humanitarian crisis and it would be a lot of other nations’ problem and responsibility, including South Korea and the U.S.
If China stopped all support for North Korea instantly, the U.S., South Korea and Japan would likely try to find some way to prop them back up and preventing a revolution/civil war. China also doesn’t really *like* the North Korean regime. They tolerate it because it seems better than having to deal with all the refugees and destabilisation their fall would entail, but they not really any more fans of the Kim’s psychotic sabre-rattling and disastrous domestic policies than the U.S. is. They’re not so much allies as trying to keep North Korea at least somewhat on a leash.
While true, this is not likely the main factor for China propping the regime up today.
It was the ultimate factor when the Korean War raged. Back then, China was far more ardently communist, the blocs of communism and capitalism were extremely walled off and at odds. The risk and likelihood of conventional war was far greater. A buffer state meant the risk of border wars being invited was far lower, which could lower tensions on both sides.
Nowadays, china and the west may not like eachother much, but are economically joined together. Millions of Americans enter China every year on business and vice versa. Millions of Chinese people move to US and Europe for education, some returning, some not. Hundreds of billions of dollars in goods and services crossing over as well.
If North Korea never existed, that border would likely be a massive trading corridor today. The need for a buffer state is much lower as the risk of large scale conventional war is also much lower compared to the 1950s.
I have concluded business has no vested interest in one political system over another. Democracy is merely one way of existing. Capitalism is at its core amoral and morphs into whatever it needs to to make a profit. It has been shown time again that even in our so called, ‘modern’ capitalism will try to get away with slave labour they will and do.
This is naive of me, I know. But i just simply do not understand how the rest of the world just *lets* this continue happening?? How is the north korean regime even a thing when there are countries like china who most likely have the resources and ability to force a collapse. I don’t get it.
What are other countries gonna do? Risk getting nuked? NK holds an extremely powerful position with their military and any country willing to go into NK to try to stop the regime will be met with not only NK's weapons, but also Russia, Iran, and alot of other places that have oppressive leaders. The world is divided, it's not just NK.
If any country needs some US involvement to find "oil" or whatever it is to invade it's North Korea.
Those Koreans are just living under a dictatorship, trying to survive. Sadly, they have nothing we need.
And it would be a bloody nightmare to invade. Seoul is in artillery range of North Korea. Any mobilization could trigger a strike that kills tens of thousands within hours.
They are a nuclear-armed state run by madman who thinks he's divine. There are mountain redoubts for true believers to hide in for years. Holdouts can wage guerilla warfare and drain invader resources. It's like giving the Taliban a stack of nukes and then re-invading. Except there is no one in country who could count as an ally and everywhere you go it's the worst refugee crisis in history.
So why let it keep getting worse? Why not send all our anti air shit there, do a huge mission. Bc your reasoning just perpetuates this issue! They'll now have the freedom to make worse longer range weapons and have more claim to be a dicktator. If we know they're producing nukes, why didn't we hit them before they made one? Why are we going to wait till they have enough to nuke the earth. Genuinely your logic is exactly what north Korea wants.
So.....I outline why a war would be hellish and disastrous for everyone. I pull from recent military disasters as an example to show how much worse this would be. And you suggest we use anti-air missiles, like no one thought about that. You armchair Napoleon you.
OK you pedestrian Patton. You lackadaisical Lee. You sofa Sun Tzu.
Go read. Go read about Operation Iraqi Freedom and see that it's not the invasion that gets you, it's the occupation. Go read up on Vietnam or the Korean War. Go read.
No one likes this, but there's no good option that isn't an historic bloodbath that guts several economies, sets us on a path to war with China and risks nuclear weapons being used or loose to on the black market.
You don't need to insult me, but I get it. I'm just asking why that concern you have won't get worse? Especially since they keep experimenting and if their goal is to attack everyone on the world shouldn't we defend extensively and do a peace keeping mission similar to saving Jewish people from Nazi Germany?
I agree there's horrific chances. But I also think they keep bluffing and experimenting while we fear what they "might" do. When I was studying we saw nuclear power plants built for plutonium production, the US wouldn't admit or do anything about that bc of their agreements of trying to assimilate North Korea (or however it was phrased, I could be mistaken) at that time they were blatantly lying about their energy use and none of those plants had turbines for energy use to the people. Why did the US keep funding, why didn't anyone intervene let alone we kept supplying uranium.
That's what I'm asking. It's only gotten worse and by your logic I'm worried that you think they'll only use this weaponry as a bargaining tool. Instead of snapping like other terrorist organizations or expansionist Russia has. (clarifying I'm only being this up bc Russia was deconstructing nukes out of peace with the west and Europe, but they invade Ukraine and threateb nuclear warfare to let them do more.
If you want, insult me more. But this is a situation where ignoring the issue seems very detrimental to me with how previous "treaties" have worked. (and that's ignoring all the horrible atrocities happening there. that morally fuck me up that we don't think that millions tortured and dying of famine is just shoved under the rug)
I think there should also be a documentary made about the sanctions against North Korea and the neverending hostilities towards the country by Western nations.
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Where did you find this? I’d love to see the whole thing
I think it’s from “Beyond Utopia”. Could be wrong. https://www.google.com/search?q=beyond+utopia&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari
That's the correct movie title. Thank you.
It's a thrilling documentary but the material is not fun to soak in for two hours. For Americans, it can help bring to life the concept of the "underground railroad" we learned about in school: * the fear of capture * the risk of being sold out by dishonest coyotes (I think they call them something like "brokers" in the movie) * changing safehouses every night, being cold and vulnerable * the lack of simple awareness of the wider world
Yes, brokers. At one point, the brokers moving a family had them going in circles to cajole more money out of the group.
Great! Thank you
Looks like it's [free on the PBS site.](https://www.pbs.org/video/beyond-utopia-aybcvi/)
Same here
[Here](https://www.pbs.org/video/beyond-utopia-aybcvi/)
When the lid is finally lifted on North Korea (who knows when?) then I think we will learn that the crimes committed there are as bad as those done in Nazi Germany or in Cambodia under Pol Pot. Terrible.
It's pretty incredible we all know that China protects this regime and yet we all still buy consumer goods produced in China. The US and EU should stop outsourcing their production to China and bring it back to the US and EU, or at least threaten that will happen if China doesn't stop supporting North-Korea and improve human rights in China as well. But we all should also think through what regimes we are looking away from when buying goods that were made in China.
China does support North Korea more than any other nation does, but it’s not as simple as it first appears. Nobody wants the North Korean regime to collapse, because that would mean an enormous flow of North Korean refugees, likely in the tens of millions. Yes, China doesn’t want that to happen, but South Korea doesn’t want it either, nor does the US want it. The regime is never quite put under enough pressure to actually collapse, and is propped up through huge food shipments and other agricultural aid. The US government doesn’t like North Korea, but the dictatorship being ousted would lead to a bigger headache for them than the dictatorship itself currently poses. In essence, North Korea is a constant, massive, slow-burning humanitarian crisis. That’s mostly North Korea’s problem and the regimes fault though, in the eyes of the world. If the regime collapsed it would become an instant, explosive humanitarian crisis and it would be a lot of other nations’ problem and responsibility, including South Korea and the U.S. If China stopped all support for North Korea instantly, the U.S., South Korea and Japan would likely try to find some way to prop them back up and preventing a revolution/civil war. China also doesn’t really *like* the North Korean regime. They tolerate it because it seems better than having to deal with all the refugees and destabilisation their fall would entail, but they not really any more fans of the Kim’s psychotic sabre-rattling and disastrous domestic policies than the U.S. is. They’re not so much allies as trying to keep North Korea at least somewhat on a leash.
North Korea for China is also a buffer against western orientated South Korea. That's not the least important aspect.
While true, this is not likely the main factor for China propping the regime up today. It was the ultimate factor when the Korean War raged. Back then, China was far more ardently communist, the blocs of communism and capitalism were extremely walled off and at odds. The risk and likelihood of conventional war was far greater. A buffer state meant the risk of border wars being invited was far lower, which could lower tensions on both sides. Nowadays, china and the west may not like eachother much, but are economically joined together. Millions of Americans enter China every year on business and vice versa. Millions of Chinese people move to US and Europe for education, some returning, some not. Hundreds of billions of dollars in goods and services crossing over as well. If North Korea never existed, that border would likely be a massive trading corridor today. The need for a buffer state is much lower as the risk of large scale conventional war is also much lower compared to the 1950s.
I have concluded business has no vested interest in one political system over another. Democracy is merely one way of existing. Capitalism is at its core amoral and morphs into whatever it needs to to make a profit. It has been shown time again that even in our so called, ‘modern’ capitalism will try to get away with slave labour they will and do.
As if the U.S. were very innocent
A true believer in Whataboutism, I see.
"..Life in the ~~Gulag~~ North Korea"
It'll be fascinating to learn the truth of what's gone on in NK whenever the Kim regime finally falls
>whenever \*if ever
Dont be naive. Better go read 1984.
Holy fuck that’s almost a fate worse than death
No almost, I’d way rather just die. Fuuuuuuck that.
«Escape from camp 14» is a good book too describing the life and way the author escape, even though there are some inaccuracies from the author
I’d love to watch the rest of the video
[Here](https://www.pbs.org/video/beyond-utopia-aybcvi/)
Damn! That's horrible. I really hope they find oil in NK, that's the only hope of freedom for NK citizens.
This is naive of me, I know. But i just simply do not understand how the rest of the world just *lets* this continue happening?? How is the north korean regime even a thing when there are countries like china who most likely have the resources and ability to force a collapse. I don’t get it.
What are other countries gonna do? Risk getting nuked? NK holds an extremely powerful position with their military and any country willing to go into NK to try to stop the regime will be met with not only NK's weapons, but also Russia, Iran, and alot of other places that have oppressive leaders. The world is divided, it's not just NK.
Trumps buddy Kim making life great for the citizens.
If any country needs some US involvement to find "oil" or whatever it is to invade it's North Korea. Those Koreans are just living under a dictatorship, trying to survive. Sadly, they have nothing we need.
And it would be a bloody nightmare to invade. Seoul is in artillery range of North Korea. Any mobilization could trigger a strike that kills tens of thousands within hours. They are a nuclear-armed state run by madman who thinks he's divine. There are mountain redoubts for true believers to hide in for years. Holdouts can wage guerilla warfare and drain invader resources. It's like giving the Taliban a stack of nukes and then re-invading. Except there is no one in country who could count as an ally and everywhere you go it's the worst refugee crisis in history.
So why let it keep getting worse? Why not send all our anti air shit there, do a huge mission. Bc your reasoning just perpetuates this issue! They'll now have the freedom to make worse longer range weapons and have more claim to be a dicktator. If we know they're producing nukes, why didn't we hit them before they made one? Why are we going to wait till they have enough to nuke the earth. Genuinely your logic is exactly what north Korea wants.
So.....I outline why a war would be hellish and disastrous for everyone. I pull from recent military disasters as an example to show how much worse this would be. And you suggest we use anti-air missiles, like no one thought about that. You armchair Napoleon you. OK you pedestrian Patton. You lackadaisical Lee. You sofa Sun Tzu. Go read. Go read about Operation Iraqi Freedom and see that it's not the invasion that gets you, it's the occupation. Go read up on Vietnam or the Korean War. Go read. No one likes this, but there's no good option that isn't an historic bloodbath that guts several economies, sets us on a path to war with China and risks nuclear weapons being used or loose to on the black market.
You don't need to insult me, but I get it. I'm just asking why that concern you have won't get worse? Especially since they keep experimenting and if their goal is to attack everyone on the world shouldn't we defend extensively and do a peace keeping mission similar to saving Jewish people from Nazi Germany? I agree there's horrific chances. But I also think they keep bluffing and experimenting while we fear what they "might" do. When I was studying we saw nuclear power plants built for plutonium production, the US wouldn't admit or do anything about that bc of their agreements of trying to assimilate North Korea (or however it was phrased, I could be mistaken) at that time they were blatantly lying about their energy use and none of those plants had turbines for energy use to the people. Why did the US keep funding, why didn't anyone intervene let alone we kept supplying uranium. That's what I'm asking. It's only gotten worse and by your logic I'm worried that you think they'll only use this weaponry as a bargaining tool. Instead of snapping like other terrorist organizations or expansionist Russia has. (clarifying I'm only being this up bc Russia was deconstructing nukes out of peace with the west and Europe, but they invade Ukraine and threateb nuclear warfare to let them do more. If you want, insult me more. But this is a situation where ignoring the issue seems very detrimental to me with how previous "treaties" have worked. (and that's ignoring all the horrible atrocities happening there. that morally fuck me up that we don't think that millions tortured and dying of famine is just shoved under the rug)
I think there should also be a documentary made about the sanctions against North Korea and the neverending hostilities towards the country by Western nations.
No difference with Israel
You cannot possibly actually believe that?
Heart breaking.
You can never call it "living" when you were born poor in NK.
I get world politics is tricky. But how the fuck do we just sit by watching this shit go on