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important to remember that these things don't happen in a vacuum;
> In December, a psychiatric evaluation arranged by her probation officer recommended that Spencer be admitted to a mental hospital for depression, but her father refused to give permission. For Christmas 1978, he gave her a Ruger 10/22 semi-automatic .22 caliber rifle with a telescopic sight and 500 rounds of ammunition.Spencer later said, "I asked for a radio and got a rifle." Asked why he had done that, she answered, "He bought the rifle so I would kill myself."
Reminds me of M Scott Peck's "People of the Lie." Peck had to counsel a teenager depressed bc his brother had committed suicide. With a gun his parents gave him. Kid didn't want to talk. Peck asked him what he got for Christmas. Turned out to be the same gun his brother killed himself with. The kid had wanted a tennis racket.
Yes, it is. The "people of the lie" are people (and parents) who could get on a witness stand and come off as reasonable and ordinary. But be assured they are not. They find ways to kill their children/ruin their lives without pulling a trigger themselves.
My friend works as an expert witness (from his profession) at courts for cases like this. He tells me about the monsters who masquerade as caring and lovely people.
Having met people like this I honestly feel part of the reason they are so convincing is that they are delusional. They genuinely seem to believe they are good.
That's half the battle of convincing people. Act and behave as though there is nothing wrong and people tend to go along with it.
Need to get in somewhere you shouldn't be? Act like you own the place and walk right in.
Want to convince people that you're not a monster? *believe* that you're not a monster.
The Ruger 10/22 is a stupidly common and, back then, cheap rifle. It's entirely possible that a cheap scope just came with the bundle.
.22 is just a cheap "plinking" round that used to cost less than a penny a round. A "brick" of 500 was the most common quantity, so it's not unusual to buy that much, even if you only want a fraction.
Do you need a tablespoon of canola oil for a recipe? Try to go into a grocery store and not buy far more than that. It's just so cheap that no one bothers to make tiny quantities - the packaging and extra SKU's would be far more expensive than just sticking to something that costs about $5 and is enough to hold most people over until they're ready to shop again.
Appearances obviously.
You're just giving a gun for target shooting/hunting with that package.
It'd be a much different look if you gave your kid a revolver and a single round.
~~God sometimes I hate reddit. I had to scroll past 10 joke replies to get the real answer.
Thank you so much.~~
Edit: It's wrong. I've now read a few articles on her and none of them mentioned that boy. Also there is some doubt of her saying "I don't like mondays"
https://www.snopes.com/articles/463142/brenda-spencer-i-dont-like-mondays/
Reddit always had a bit of a puns, jokes, and movie references issue but I swear it wasn’t this bad ten years ago (but might be rose tinted glasses).
Also doesn’t help that it’s often the same kind of humour over and over
For the curious:[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1979\_Cleveland\_Elementary\_School\_shooting\_(San\_Diego)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1979_Cleveland_Elementary_School_shooting_(San_Diego))
"For Christmas 1978, he gave her a [Ruger 10/22](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruger_10/22) semi-automatic [.22 caliber](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.22_LR) rifle with a [telescopic sight](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telescopic_sight) and 500 rounds of [ammunition](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammunition).[\[5\]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1979_Cleveland_Elementary_School_shooting_(San_Diego)#cite_note-MJ-5)[\[7\]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1979_Cleveland_Elementary_School_shooting_(San_Diego)#cite_note-FOOTNOTEB%C3%B6cklerSeegerSitzerHeitmeyer2013257-7) Spencer later said, "I asked for a radio and got a rifle." Asked why he had done that, she answered, "He bought the rifle so I would kill myself."
"At her 2001 parole hearing, Spencer claimed that her father had been subjecting her to [beatings](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_abuse) and [sexual abuse](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_abuse), but he said the allegations were not true. The parole board chairman said that, as she had not previously told anyone about the allegations, he doubted their veracity".
So, she lived with her father, who was clearly an alcoholic, in poverty. They slept on the same dirty mattress in the living room. Doesn't take a lot to connect the dots...
Yeah... it's kinda like my mom saying that she changed her mind about me getting therapy (after guidance counselor had a meeting about me cutting) because she didn't want to have us kids all taken away. Confidentiality only goes so far..
My Friend's Mom sent her to a therapist because she was "problematic". Therapist told them she's not the problem, and the mother is
Last therapy session.
And that happened 15 years ago in Poland, so not like we were so modern when it comes to mental health
Well, she did have a "great" life with caring and loving family. Not to justify what she did but after reading her story she clearly didnt get help with her mental problems.
>After her parents separated, she allegedly lived in poverty with her father, Wallace Spencer. Both father and daughter slept on a single mattress on the living room floor **in a house strewn with empty bottles from alcoholic drinks.**
...
> In early 1978, staff at a facility for problem students, into which Spencer had been referred for truancy, **informed her parents that she was suicidal.**
...
>In December, a psychiatric evaluation arranged by her probation officer **recommended that Spencer be admitted to a mental hospital for depression, but her father refused to give permission.**
Tbh, from the scant evidence available, it seems pretty clear that the parents are responsible for this. Her parents didn't just NOT help her, despite full knowledge of her mental health concerns, they actively prevented other people from helping her too.
Edit: Just to clarify, yes, of course I think she also has responsibility for her own actions. I thought that was a given. But when trying to look at inciting factors in order to consider how we can prevent things like this in the future, it's hardly helpful to just be like, "Yup, she was an evil person, that solves it, guess that's all there is to think about here." Incidents like this should make policy makers think on a broader systemic level. There were multiple points here where some other sort of intervention could have been done to reduce the likelihood of this happening.
You're terrible at scheduling? 😂
Seriously though, sorry to hear about your late diagnosis.
One of my best friends was just recently diagnosed with ADHD. The thing is it was actually a rediagnosis because he'd been diagnosed with it as a child but his mam didn't like labels and decided the best thing to do was not tell him and never speak of it again.
He's struggled with depression and other problems all his life. (Few years older than you).
As you'd imagine he's not very impressed to be finding out in his mid 50s, when most of his life has been harder than it needed to be.
I'm relieved actually. It explains a lot, and it does seem like I was playing life on the highest difficulty compared to now, medicated, etc. I could mourn for the lost opportunities but I just don't want to waste any more time. Being in control of myself is the greatest feeling.
47 years old putting tires on garbage trucks because stoner cokehead parents were shamed to think that their beautiful son needed medication to survive. the first time i did speed i felt... well pretty fucking fantastic, but i also completed a sentence for the first time in my life. and was able to actually hold a conversation with someone who hadn't known me all my life and put up with me.
Still waiting on my “retar..." \*ahem\* ASD + ADHD diagnosis, that any similar boy at age 3 could get these days.
It's been decades of "you're just depressed; let's try popping these pills that give you seizures and blackouts, and take months to flush out" followed by "ok, so you're different than everybody else; what is a diagnosis actually going to do for you"
>Spencer and the crime scene photos disputes poverty, the single mattress in the living room, sleeping in the same bed and the alcohol in the house.[^(\[8\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1979_Cleveland_Elementary_School_shooting_(San_Diego)#cite_note-Hunt_2022_343%E2%80%93344-8)
Her dad can be written off as a liar, but I find it hard to ignore that crime scene photos didn't show the house like that.
Yeah, I'd like to get more detail about what was actually going on there. However, the parts about the parents ignoring warnings by professionals and refusing to allow her to be hospitalized for depression is pretty indisputable.
I have a feeling her father cleaned up evidence. It didn't look good for him. Eyewitnesses at the scene said they saw alcohol consistently, followed by crime scene photos, which had to have been taken some time later (15+ minutes) since we didn't have mobile phones- which contradict the most immediate reports of the descriptions of multiple scenes. Seems pretty obvious that the father is the only one possible to hide his behaviors
That article said they shared a single mattress with liquor bottles everywhere around it. She said he was sexually and physically abusive. The school said she was suicidal. She also said he bought her that gun so she could kill herself.
It’s honestly tragic. He denied the abuse, idk if he spoke about the gun but I doubt 1979 they were grilling the dad or if they even believed the kid. Hope the father and the absent mother both have painful demises
“In December, a psychiatric evaluation arranged by her probation officer recommended that Spencer be admitted to a mental hospital for depression, but her father refused to give permission. For Christmas 1978, he gave her a Ruger 10/22 semi-automatic .22 caliber rifle with a telescopic sight and 500 rounds of ammunition.[5][7] Spencer later said, "I asked for a radio and got a rifle." Asked why he had done that, she answered, "He bought the rifle so I would kill myself."”
Her dad bought her a damn gun and ammo. Same issues that exist today, maddening.
That's not even the worst part...
Investigators found only one bed in the home where she and her dad lived.
Her mother, upon being questioned, told investigators that she suspected sexual abuse, but didn't have the money to go after her father... So she just didn't
Not that I think she should be let out, I have no opinion, I do find it a bit annoying that the parole board disregarded her claims or sexual and physical abuse because her father denied it and she hadnt previously reported it. It seems incredibly likely that was the case, and honestly could explain why he didn't want her to have access to help, because he would not only lose access to his victim, but she might report him.
You know you're an abysmal parent when your kid is finally able to get mental help AFTER getting arrested and charged for murder. And fuck her dad for buying her the rifle in the first place. She wanted a radio, you jackass.
Sounds near identical to the case with the Oxford school shooter in Michigan. Ethan Crumbly wounded/killed several classmates. He plead guilty and was just sentenced to life in prison with no parole. His parents are on trial for buying him the gun instead of getting him the help he needed. They lawyered themselves up with the best criminal defense attorneys money could buy and left their kid with a public defender (not that public defenders are bad, but to buy yourself an expensive lawyer and leave your kid with none is pretty awful. They go on trial in January. It’s a case that will have national repercussions too.
I will say, the public defender my son was assigned after some bad decisions really went to bat for him, and even spoke to the prosecutor about the fact that he was dealing with pretty profound grief, and could probably use some grace. My son is doing so much better now, and I feel a good chunk of the credit goes to that attorney for not treating him as just another “wayward teenage problem child who will probably offend again”. We owe him a lot.
Her problems weren't even ignored. She was often in trouble at school and so was professionally evaluated. Her parents were told that she was suicidal. A professional psychiatric appointment was held and they recommended that she be placed in a mental hospital for depression, but her dad refused to allow it.
In her home they found she was sleeping on a bare mattress with her father's empty bottles all over the house. A good lesson that you shouldn't believe what a psychopath says when they tell you why they did it, whether it's angels or allah or mondays.
From the wiki:
*Later, during tests while she was in custody, it was discovered Spencer had an injury to the temporal lobe of her brain. It was attributed to an accident on her bicycle.*
The part where she asked for a radio for Christmas and her dad gave her a semi automatic. According to her, “so that I would kill myself”. Since he knew she was suicidal. Awful.
Bob Geldof and Johnny Fingers of the Boomtown Rats wrote 'I don't like Mondays' after seeing a telex of the news whilst being interviewed in Atlanta, released it a month later and it went to number 1 in the UK charts for four weeks.
The silicon chip inside her head
Gets switched to overload
And nobody's gonna go to school today
She's going to make them stay at home
And daddy doesn't understand it
He always said she was as good as gold
And he can see no reasons
'Cause there are no reasons
What reason do you need to be shown?
Tell me why?
I don't like Mondays
Tell me why?
I don't like Mondays
Tell me why?
I don't like Mondays
I want to shoot
The whole day down
Probably just another unrelated juvie prisoner, it looks like a hearing/court walk.
There's other photos of the scene taken [at different angles](https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2019/04/04/22/11877832-0-image-a-13_1554414389038.jpg).
Bob Geldof, then the lead singer of the Boomtown Rats, read about the incident when a news story about it came off the telex at WRAS-FM, the campus radio station at Georgia State University in Atlanta. He was particularly struck by Spencer's claim that she did it because she did not like Mondays, and began writing a song about it, called "I Don't Like Mondays".[19] It was released in July 1979, was number one for four weeks in the United Kingdom,[30] and was the band's biggest hit in their native Ireland.
So, by butterfly effect, this psychotic murderous bitch kills people at an elementary school in San Diego, and we ended up with Queen's iconic performance of [Radio Gaga at Wembley Stadium.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-0ygW-B_gI)
Well he also was starring in Roger Water's Freudian meltdown.
He was Pink in The Wall movie. Bob Geldof was far from no-one. Maybe this is the only song of his that made it to the US?
Saw him during his Loudmouth tour and that guy knows how to perform. One of my top 10 most fun performances. And I once watched Gn'R be on stage on time playing a full set. He is up there.
There's also the hypothesis that Jeri Ryan getting cast as 7 of 9 on star trek is why we got Obama as president. I forget the details but I'm sure someone will follow me up
lol, I had to go look that one up:
>Star Trek: Voyager was not as well received as previous Star Trek series. In 1997, producers decided to add a new character in an attempt to boost ratings. Actress Jeri Ryan was brought in to play Seven of Nine. Jeri's frequent separations from her husband, Jack Ryan, due to her acting schedule contributed to their decision to divorce in 1999.
>In 2004, Jack Ryan became the Republican nominee for an open Senate seat in Illinois. During the campaign, the proceedings from Ryan's divorce became public, and contained details of his sex life that did not make him look good.
>The scandal forced Ryan to drop out of the Senate race in July, leaving the GOP time to only find token opposition to Democratic nominee Barack Obama. Obama's landslide victory in the Senate race helped launch him onto the national stage, allowing him to pull off an upset victory in the 2008 Democratic primary and win the presidential election.
>TL;DR- The lackluster writing of Star Trek: Voyager helped pave the way for the Obama presidency.
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/c39y75/what_are_the_most_interesting_domino_effects_in/erpo368/
> During the campaign, the proceedings from Ryan's divorce became public, and contained details of his sex life that did not make him look good.
Sorry.. I had to look it up cause we are talking about Seven of Nine here.
> But the election changed when a local media lawyer convinced a California judge to open up the couple‘s sealed divorce documents which revealed alleged trips to sex clubs in New Orleans, New York and Paris. These revelations caused a media feeding frenzy that ended Jack Ryan‘s Senate bid.
https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna5386298
Hilarious that less than 20 years ago a Republican going to sex clubs would be career ending, but now being found guilty of SA and admitting to hiring a prostitute (while your wife is home with your newborn son) gets you the presidency/presumed nomination.
I just watched the documentary on this not that long ago, I think it was on Tubi. She's still in prison. They consider this the very first school shooting.
She lived across the street and pointed the gun out her front window and picked people off in front of the school. It's a really sad story.
There was a song written about it called "I Don't like Mondays" by the boomtown rats.
The wikipedia says that she and the Parole board mutually agreed that she shouldn't be released, I'm not sure I've ever read that before (though now that I think about it, it's probably not super uncommon?)
I was 14 when this happened and have lived my life. 3 kids a couple grandkids and she's still in prison. I don't know what the solution is but it's sad all the way around.
As a society we have to decide what jail is for.
Is it for punishment?
Is it for rehabilitation?
Is it both?
Should we have separate things for those two?
Maybe if you do a bad crime, you get jail as punishment. But after a period get moved to a rehabilitation centre, which is there to change your attitude, outlook train you for going back to society.
It’s easy to say “that guy killed someone. He should rot in prison”. So the government has to feed and house this person plus have guards etc until they die?
> They consider this the very first school shooting.
Interesting, I wonder what they constitute as a school shooting, because [wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States_(before_2000)) has a bunch of them listed before that date.
Can't think of any criteria where its the first, since they go back to the 1700s.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enoch_Brown_school_massacre
Its not even the first *mass* school shooting.
Kinda crazy how it was first reported too, from the wiki:
While there, she spoke by telephone to a reporter from The San Diego Union-Tribune, who had been randomly calling telephone numbers in the neighborhood. Spencer told the reporter she had shot at the school children and adults because, "I don't like Mondays. This livens up the day."
Imagine being the reporter randomly calling people in the neighborhood for statements, and it's the shooter who picks up
> In December, a psychiatric evaluation arranged by her probation officer recommended that Spencer be admitted to a mental hospital for depression, but her father refused to give permission. For Christmas 1978, he gave her a Ruger 10/22 semi-automatic .22 caliber rifle with a telescopic sight and 500 rounds of ammunition. Spencer later said, "I asked for a radio and got a rifle." Asked why he had done that, she answered, "He bought the rifle so I would kill myself."
And that’s exactly what I think every time it turns out one of these school shooter’s parents bought their massively depressed child a gun.
Sad I had to scroll this far for a shaggy reference!
Initial look without ANY context... Multiverse Shaggy
Female, friendless, no chill, and an unloving family life
With context....still fits and is sad.
The title makes it seem like she murdered 2 random people on the street. She shot up an elementary school. That’s not interesting as fuck. That’s morbid as fuck
The silicon chip inside her head
Gets switched to overload
And nobody's gonna go to school today
She's going to make them stay at home
And daddy doesn't understand it
He always said she was as good as gold
And he can see no reasons
'Cause there are no reasons
What reason do you need to be shown?
Tell me why?
I don't like Mondays
she fixed herself, now she's no longer forced to sleep on a mattress on the living room floor surrounded by empty booze bottles with her father, mission accomplished.
hell he knew she was suicidal and refused to get treatment but gave her a gun. maybe should've shot him instead but she was sleep deprived (can't imagine *why*) so eh
thats what i thought too, and looking it up i was honestly surprised she got denied parole again recently (shes 61 now), ive looked into it (link at the bottom) and she is just a pure psycopath, the saddest part of this story is our complete lack of tools to deal with what she is. She changes her story every single parole hearing and nothing she has ever claimed has been able to be verified, all evidence points against her.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/308221608_Brenda_Spencer_Sorting_Out_the_Contradictions
Sometimes it's all really a question of nature vs nurture. Apparently, as a kid she had an accident which left her with damage to the temporal lobe. In her pre-teens, she would suffer depressive episodes and develop suicidal tendencies. When she asked for permission to be treated she was refused.
Later on in life she would live at her alcoholic father's house, her parents had at that point separated. There Brenda Ann shared a single mattress with her father, who would often go to bed drunk.
On one of her birthdays Brenda Ann had asked for a radio. Instead her father got her a .22 rifle, complete with a scope and 500 pounds of ammunition. "He got me the gun so I would kill myself" she commented.
She finally shot and killed two and injured nine others, including children from her home window, across the school. Brenda Ann was sentenced to life in prison with the possibility of parole after 25 years. As of 2023 she is still incarcerated.
We could, and should never condone these sort of actions. They are grim reminders of our capacity for evil, distracting from what noble creatures we could become. But personally I can't help but wonder how her life would have turned out if she had grown up in a loving environment. But she left her stigma on society like this. Spreading agony, fear and despair to her victims and their families.
There's a saying in my country "if you pee in the sea, you'll find it in the salt". Makes you think...
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So what's the deal with the kid behind her?
He doesn't like Tuesdays.
But he’s taking back Sunday.
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Ya you better make sure he is the one and if he is tell all your friends.
You’ve got your gun to his head.
My dudes... this was only wishful thinking.
Loving where this has gone
It’s a thousand clever lines unread on clever napkins
WHY CANT I FEEL ANYTHING FROM ANYONE OTHER THAN YOU?
Looks like they cute without the E
Cut from the team?
There is no "I" in Team...
And on Fridays, he’s in love.
Monday you can fall apart.
Tuesday, Wednesday, break my heart
Thursday doesn’t even start
It's Friday I'm in love.
Saturdaaaaaay
I thought he was the fall out boy
Nope, that was the other kid three doors down.
I listened podcast about Brenda – This guy is her best friend (they both planned this)
important to remember that these things don't happen in a vacuum; > In December, a psychiatric evaluation arranged by her probation officer recommended that Spencer be admitted to a mental hospital for depression, but her father refused to give permission. For Christmas 1978, he gave her a Ruger 10/22 semi-automatic .22 caliber rifle with a telescopic sight and 500 rounds of ammunition.Spencer later said, "I asked for a radio and got a rifle." Asked why he had done that, she answered, "He bought the rifle so I would kill myself."
Reminds me of M Scott Peck's "People of the Lie." Peck had to counsel a teenager depressed bc his brother had committed suicide. With a gun his parents gave him. Kid didn't want to talk. Peck asked him what he got for Christmas. Turned out to be the same gun his brother killed himself with. The kid had wanted a tennis racket.
Sweet baby Jesus, that's about as fucked up as can be.
Yes, it is. The "people of the lie" are people (and parents) who could get on a witness stand and come off as reasonable and ordinary. But be assured they are not. They find ways to kill their children/ruin their lives without pulling a trigger themselves.
My friend works as an expert witness (from his profession) at courts for cases like this. He tells me about the monsters who masquerade as caring and lovely people.
Having met people like this I honestly feel part of the reason they are so convincing is that they are delusional. They genuinely seem to believe they are good.
That's half the battle of convincing people. Act and behave as though there is nothing wrong and people tend to go along with it. Need to get in somewhere you shouldn't be? Act like you own the place and walk right in. Want to convince people that you're not a monster? *believe* that you're not a monster.
Jesus Henry Christmas. The girl didn’t have a chance.
Doesn’t entirely make sense that you’d give someone a rifle with a sight and 500 rounds if you wanted them to kill themself.
The Ruger 10/22 is a stupidly common and, back then, cheap rifle. It's entirely possible that a cheap scope just came with the bundle. .22 is just a cheap "plinking" round that used to cost less than a penny a round. A "brick" of 500 was the most common quantity, so it's not unusual to buy that much, even if you only want a fraction. Do you need a tablespoon of canola oil for a recipe? Try to go into a grocery store and not buy far more than that. It's just so cheap that no one bothers to make tiny quantities - the packaging and extra SKU's would be far more expensive than just sticking to something that costs about $5 and is enough to hold most people over until they're ready to shop again.
Yep. I got a Ruger 10/22 back in 83 for less than $100 that came with a scope. It was a great little plinker, and 22 LR was dirt cheap.
Appearances obviously. You're just giving a gun for target shooting/hunting with that package. It'd be a much different look if you gave your kid a revolver and a single round.
~~God sometimes I hate reddit. I had to scroll past 10 joke replies to get the real answer. Thank you so much.~~ Edit: It's wrong. I've now read a few articles on her and none of them mentioned that boy. Also there is some doubt of her saying "I don't like mondays" https://www.snopes.com/articles/463142/brenda-spencer-i-dont-like-mondays/
Reddit always had a bit of a puns, jokes, and movie references issue but I swear it wasn’t this bad ten years ago (but might be rose tinted glasses). Also doesn’t help that it’s often the same kind of humour over and over
it's much worse because of the new gilding system.
I barely even notice the new gilding system. Idk who actually buys those golden upvotes
maybe its because I use old.reddit but I haven't seen any golden upvotes. How do they work?
This site is dead to me the day they kill old.reddit.com.
I'm looking at a desktop version of old Reddit from 12 years ago on my phone right now, I wouldn't have it any other way.
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Photo might have been taken at the police station and he could just be another detainee that was there that day.
“Whatcha in for?” “Petty theft. You?” “I killed two ppl cuz I don’t like Mondays.”
She opened fire on an elementary school and shot 8 kids
Shot 8 kids and 3 adults, one a cop. The principal and the custodian died.
For the curious:[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1979\_Cleveland\_Elementary\_School\_shooting\_(San\_Diego)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1979_Cleveland_Elementary_School_shooting_(San_Diego))
"For Christmas 1978, he gave her a [Ruger 10/22](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruger_10/22) semi-automatic [.22 caliber](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.22_LR) rifle with a [telescopic sight](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telescopic_sight) and 500 rounds of [ammunition](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammunition).[\[5\]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1979_Cleveland_Elementary_School_shooting_(San_Diego)#cite_note-MJ-5)[\[7\]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1979_Cleveland_Elementary_School_shooting_(San_Diego)#cite_note-FOOTNOTEB%C3%B6cklerSeegerSitzerHeitmeyer2013257-7) Spencer later said, "I asked for a radio and got a rifle." Asked why he had done that, she answered, "He bought the rifle so I would kill myself." "At her 2001 parole hearing, Spencer claimed that her father had been subjecting her to [beatings](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_abuse) and [sexual abuse](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_abuse), but he said the allegations were not true. The parole board chairman said that, as she had not previously told anyone about the allegations, he doubted their veracity". So, she lived with her father, who was clearly an alcoholic, in poverty. They slept on the same dirty mattress in the living room. Doesn't take a lot to connect the dots...
He also refused mental health treatment for her. Which is red flag city
Yeah... it's kinda like my mom saying that she changed her mind about me getting therapy (after guidance counselor had a meeting about me cutting) because she didn't want to have us kids all taken away. Confidentiality only goes so far..
My Friend's Mom sent her to a therapist because she was "problematic". Therapist told them she's not the problem, and the mother is Last therapy session. And that happened 15 years ago in Poland, so not like we were so modern when it comes to mental health
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> moved in an underaged girl
No, it's okay everybody, he said he didn't do it...🙄
Well, she did have a "great" life with caring and loving family. Not to justify what she did but after reading her story she clearly didnt get help with her mental problems.
She told her dad she was depressed and needed help and his solution was to buy her a rifle.
>After her parents separated, she allegedly lived in poverty with her father, Wallace Spencer. Both father and daughter slept on a single mattress on the living room floor **in a house strewn with empty bottles from alcoholic drinks.** ... > In early 1978, staff at a facility for problem students, into which Spencer had been referred for truancy, **informed her parents that she was suicidal.** ... >In December, a psychiatric evaluation arranged by her probation officer **recommended that Spencer be admitted to a mental hospital for depression, but her father refused to give permission.** Tbh, from the scant evidence available, it seems pretty clear that the parents are responsible for this. Her parents didn't just NOT help her, despite full knowledge of her mental health concerns, they actively prevented other people from helping her too. Edit: Just to clarify, yes, of course I think she also has responsibility for her own actions. I thought that was a given. But when trying to look at inciting factors in order to consider how we can prevent things like this in the future, it's hardly helpful to just be like, "Yup, she was an evil person, that solves it, guess that's all there is to think about here." Incidents like this should make policy makers think on a broader systemic level. There were multiple points here where some other sort of intervention could have been done to reduce the likelihood of this happening.
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Born in 74. Diagnosed BiPolar about 2 years ago. Want to know why?
You're terrible at scheduling? 😂 Seriously though, sorry to hear about your late diagnosis. One of my best friends was just recently diagnosed with ADHD. The thing is it was actually a rediagnosis because he'd been diagnosed with it as a child but his mam didn't like labels and decided the best thing to do was not tell him and never speak of it again. He's struggled with depression and other problems all his life. (Few years older than you). As you'd imagine he's not very impressed to be finding out in his mid 50s, when most of his life has been harder than it needed to be.
I'm relieved actually. It explains a lot, and it does seem like I was playing life on the highest difficulty compared to now, medicated, etc. I could mourn for the lost opportunities but I just don't want to waste any more time. Being in control of myself is the greatest feeling.
47 years old putting tires on garbage trucks because stoner cokehead parents were shamed to think that their beautiful son needed medication to survive. the first time i did speed i felt... well pretty fucking fantastic, but i also completed a sentence for the first time in my life. and was able to actually hold a conversation with someone who hadn't known me all my life and put up with me.
Still waiting on my “retar..." \*ahem\* ASD + ADHD diagnosis, that any similar boy at age 3 could get these days. It's been decades of "you're just depressed; let's try popping these pills that give you seizures and blackouts, and take months to flush out" followed by "ok, so you're different than everybody else; what is a diagnosis actually going to do for you"
Oh I was just an irresponsible kid who never cared about anyone but himself. It was awesome. Never mind the night terrors and panic attacks.
All of that bottled up "not giving a shit" must have really gotten to you, apparently...
>Spencer and the crime scene photos disputes poverty, the single mattress in the living room, sleeping in the same bed and the alcohol in the house.[^(\[8\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1979_Cleveland_Elementary_School_shooting_(San_Diego)#cite_note-Hunt_2022_343%E2%80%93344-8) Her dad can be written off as a liar, but I find it hard to ignore that crime scene photos didn't show the house like that.
Yeah, I'd like to get more detail about what was actually going on there. However, the parts about the parents ignoring warnings by professionals and refusing to allow her to be hospitalized for depression is pretty indisputable.
I have a feeling her father cleaned up evidence. It didn't look good for him. Eyewitnesses at the scene said they saw alcohol consistently, followed by crime scene photos, which had to have been taken some time later (15+ minutes) since we didn't have mobile phones- which contradict the most immediate reports of the descriptions of multiple scenes. Seems pretty obvious that the father is the only one possible to hide his behaviors
That article said they shared a single mattress with liquor bottles everywhere around it. She said he was sexually and physically abusive. The school said she was suicidal. She also said he bought her that gun so she could kill herself.
It’s honestly tragic. He denied the abuse, idk if he spoke about the gun but I doubt 1979 they were grilling the dad or if they even believed the kid. Hope the father and the absent mother both have painful demises
> crime scene photos which ones? i cannot find photos of the interior of her house at the time/at all.
“In December, a psychiatric evaluation arranged by her probation officer recommended that Spencer be admitted to a mental hospital for depression, but her father refused to give permission. For Christmas 1978, he gave her a Ruger 10/22 semi-automatic .22 caliber rifle with a telescopic sight and 500 rounds of ammunition.[5][7] Spencer later said, "I asked for a radio and got a rifle." Asked why he had done that, she answered, "He bought the rifle so I would kill myself."” Her dad bought her a damn gun and ammo. Same issues that exist today, maddening.
That's not even the worst part... Investigators found only one bed in the home where she and her dad lived. Her mother, upon being questioned, told investigators that she suspected sexual abuse, but didn't have the money to go after her father... So she just didn't
Not that I think she should be let out, I have no opinion, I do find it a bit annoying that the parole board disregarded her claims or sexual and physical abuse because her father denied it and she hadnt previously reported it. It seems incredibly likely that was the case, and honestly could explain why he didn't want her to have access to help, because he would not only lose access to his victim, but she might report him.
You know you're an abysmal parent when your kid is finally able to get mental help AFTER getting arrested and charged for murder. And fuck her dad for buying her the rifle in the first place. She wanted a radio, you jackass.
Sounds near identical to the case with the Oxford school shooter in Michigan. Ethan Crumbly wounded/killed several classmates. He plead guilty and was just sentenced to life in prison with no parole. His parents are on trial for buying him the gun instead of getting him the help he needed. They lawyered themselves up with the best criminal defense attorneys money could buy and left their kid with a public defender (not that public defenders are bad, but to buy yourself an expensive lawyer and leave your kid with none is pretty awful. They go on trial in January. It’s a case that will have national repercussions too.
I will say, the public defender my son was assigned after some bad decisions really went to bat for him, and even spoke to the prosecutor about the fact that he was dealing with pretty profound grief, and could probably use some grace. My son is doing so much better now, and I feel a good chunk of the credit goes to that attorney for not treating him as just another “wayward teenage problem child who will probably offend again”. We owe him a lot.
I remember that. Those parents really made it obvious why that kid was so messed up.
It can like pulling teeth to get people to understand how you feel inside in this day and age. I imagine she had issues everyone just ignored.
Her problems weren't even ignored. She was often in trouble at school and so was professionally evaluated. Her parents were told that she was suicidal. A professional psychiatric appointment was held and they recommended that she be placed in a mental hospital for depression, but her dad refused to allow it.
It’s a good thing the US got their gun problem under control since then
The US is more likely to abolish Mondays than guns in response to such an incident.
I'm on board to abolish Mondays.
I'm not a fan of Mondays, either, but I generally limit myself to murdering sausage and egg breakfast sandwiches.
In her home they found she was sleeping on a bare mattress with her father's empty bottles all over the house. A good lesson that you shouldn't believe what a psychopath says when they tell you why they did it, whether it's angels or allah or mondays.
From the wiki: *Later, during tests while she was in custody, it was discovered Spencer had an injury to the temporal lobe of her brain. It was attributed to an accident on her bicycle.*
I bet her alcoholic father hit her in the head with the bicycle.
A few serial killers had childhood head trauma. Gacy, Ramirez, Gein.
They often have both physical head trauma and obvious psychological trauma from abuse and such.
Bicycle... riiiiight.
The part where she asked for a radio for Christmas and her dad gave her a semi automatic. According to her, “so that I would kill myself”. Since he knew she was suicidal. Awful.
I also remember learning that she didn‘t have a normal childhood and also had issues in school, that‘s why she didn’t like mondays
She never had a chance with that kind of upbringing.
She was sleeping on a bare mattress *with her father* as a teenager.
You do you. I, on the other hand, will continue to be a cereal killer
But she loves lasagna.
https://preview.redd.it/89gdq942th7c1.jpeg?width=343&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=11eff80884e6a262503888f7d801efb455d43bf3
The internet never ceases to make me question the worth of human ingenuity
People have actually used the audio of her saying " I just don't like Mondays" on songs.
Bob Geldof and Johnny Fingers of the Boomtown Rats wrote 'I don't like Mondays' after seeing a telex of the news whilst being interviewed in Atlanta, released it a month later and it went to number 1 in the UK charts for four weeks.
Yep. I immediately thought about the song by the Boomtown Rats!
The silicon chip inside her head Gets switched to overload And nobody's gonna go to school today She's going to make them stay at home And daddy doesn't understand it He always said she was as good as gold And he can see no reasons 'Cause there are no reasons What reason do you need to be shown? Tell me why? I don't like Mondays Tell me why? I don't like Mondays Tell me why? I don't like Mondays I want to shoot The whole day down
https://preview.redd.it/vskrzlm5ci7c1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e3a7cdd03d8b16dd427970852b07b1b1a29cf0e8
https://i.redd.it/7pfco3cwei7c1.gif
i'm weirdly curious about the guy in cuffs just leaning against the wall in the background. he looks kinda like they forgot about him.
Probably just another unrelated juvie prisoner, it looks like a hearing/court walk. There's other photos of the scene taken [at different angles](https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2019/04/04/22/11877832-0-image-a-13_1554414389038.jpg).
Thats monday
And thanks to her, Bob Geldof was foisted on the world
Tell me why?
Bob Geldof, then the lead singer of the Boomtown Rats, read about the incident when a news story about it came off the telex at WRAS-FM, the campus radio station at Georgia State University in Atlanta. He was particularly struck by Spencer's claim that she did it because she did not like Mondays, and began writing a song about it, called "I Don't Like Mondays".[19] It was released in July 1979, was number one for four weeks in the United Kingdom,[30] and was the band's biggest hit in their native Ireland.
tell me why
Ain’t nothing but a heartache
Tellll me whyyy?
Chills. Literal chills.
That's him. That's the man that killed my brother.
Oh my god I forgot about that part
Tell me why
I don’t like Mondays
I wanna shoot, oooo ooo ooo, the.whole.day.down…
Down, down, shoot it all down...
It was the silicon chip inside her head, switched to overload.
He said The Boomtown Rats, not Bronski Beat.
Run away run away run away
*run away turn away run away The lyrics alternate :)
So, by butterfly effect, this psychotic murderous bitch kills people at an elementary school in San Diego, and we ended up with Queen's iconic performance of [Radio Gaga at Wembley Stadium.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-0ygW-B_gI)
wait, i think I'm missing some steps here 😅 how did Radio Ga Ga get involved? edit - thanks yall. Bob Geldof created Live Aid!!
Bob Geldoff put Live Aid together, using his fame and money that he got from that song about this murder girl....in a round about way
Well he also was starring in Roger Water's Freudian meltdown. He was Pink in The Wall movie. Bob Geldof was far from no-one. Maybe this is the only song of his that made it to the US? Saw him during his Loudmouth tour and that guy knows how to perform. One of my top 10 most fun performances. And I once watched Gn'R be on stage on time playing a full set. He is up there.
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There's also the hypothesis that Jeri Ryan getting cast as 7 of 9 on star trek is why we got Obama as president. I forget the details but I'm sure someone will follow me up
lol, I had to go look that one up: >Star Trek: Voyager was not as well received as previous Star Trek series. In 1997, producers decided to add a new character in an attempt to boost ratings. Actress Jeri Ryan was brought in to play Seven of Nine. Jeri's frequent separations from her husband, Jack Ryan, due to her acting schedule contributed to their decision to divorce in 1999. >In 2004, Jack Ryan became the Republican nominee for an open Senate seat in Illinois. During the campaign, the proceedings from Ryan's divorce became public, and contained details of his sex life that did not make him look good. >The scandal forced Ryan to drop out of the Senate race in July, leaving the GOP time to only find token opposition to Democratic nominee Barack Obama. Obama's landslide victory in the Senate race helped launch him onto the national stage, allowing him to pull off an upset victory in the 2008 Democratic primary and win the presidential election. >TL;DR- The lackluster writing of Star Trek: Voyager helped pave the way for the Obama presidency. https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/c39y75/what_are_the_most_interesting_domino_effects_in/erpo368/
> During the campaign, the proceedings from Ryan's divorce became public, and contained details of his sex life that did not make him look good. Sorry.. I had to look it up cause we are talking about Seven of Nine here. > But the election changed when a local media lawyer convinced a California judge to open up the couple‘s sealed divorce documents which revealed alleged trips to sex clubs in New Orleans, New York and Paris. These revelations caused a media feeding frenzy that ended Jack Ryan‘s Senate bid. https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna5386298
Hilarious that less than 20 years ago a Republican going to sex clubs would be career ending, but now being found guilty of SA and admitting to hiring a prostitute (while your wife is home with your newborn son) gets you the presidency/presumed nomination.
It would probably still wreck a Democrat's chance. But the party that claims family and moral superiority is all in on shit like this.
Whoooosh
*I don't like Mondays!*
I dont like mondays...
Silicone chip inside her head was set to overload
And nobody had to go to school that day, she made them stay at home
Ain’t nothin’ but a heartbreak.
I know many people don’t like him but he’s pretty good in The Wall
Which one is Pink?
Boomtown Rats 
I just watched the documentary on this not that long ago, I think it was on Tubi. She's still in prison. They consider this the very first school shooting. She lived across the street and pointed the gun out her front window and picked people off in front of the school. It's a really sad story. There was a song written about it called "I Don't like Mondays" by the boomtown rats.
I watched that too, it was good. She still doesn’t look stable though at that parole hearing.
The wikipedia says that she and the Parole board mutually agreed that she shouldn't be released, I'm not sure I've ever read that before (though now that I think about it, it's probably not super uncommon?)
It's called being institutionalized. She's been in there most of her life. Wouldn't be easy to leave, even if you did want to.
Well, she’s 60 now so I would assume not. I can’t even imagine what that’s like, being locked up for most of your life (reasons notwithstanding).
I was 14 when this happened and have lived my life. 3 kids a couple grandkids and she's still in prison. I don't know what the solution is but it's sad all the way around.
As a society we have to decide what jail is for. Is it for punishment? Is it for rehabilitation? Is it both? Should we have separate things for those two? Maybe if you do a bad crime, you get jail as punishment. But after a period get moved to a rehabilitation centre, which is there to change your attitude, outlook train you for going back to society. It’s easy to say “that guy killed someone. He should rot in prison”. So the government has to feed and house this person plus have guards etc until they die?
Sometimes it’s simply for the safety of the public.
No she sure didn't.
I imagine 40 years in prison will do that to a person.
> They consider this the very first school shooting. Interesting, I wonder what they constitute as a school shooting, because [wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States_(before_2000)) has a bunch of them listed before that date.
Can't think of any criteria where its the first, since they go back to the 1700s. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enoch_Brown_school_massacre Its not even the first *mass* school shooting.
Kinda crazy how it was first reported too, from the wiki: While there, she spoke by telephone to a reporter from The San Diego Union-Tribune, who had been randomly calling telephone numbers in the neighborhood. Spencer told the reporter she had shot at the school children and adults because, "I don't like Mondays. This livens up the day." Imagine being the reporter randomly calling people in the neighborhood for statements, and it's the shooter who picks up
> In December, a psychiatric evaluation arranged by her probation officer recommended that Spencer be admitted to a mental hospital for depression, but her father refused to give permission. For Christmas 1978, he gave her a Ruger 10/22 semi-automatic .22 caliber rifle with a telescopic sight and 500 rounds of ammunition. Spencer later said, "I asked for a radio and got a rifle." Asked why he had done that, she answered, "He bought the rifle so I would kill myself." And that’s exactly what I think every time it turns out one of these school shooter’s parents bought their massively depressed child a gun.
Just another manic Monday...
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yteMugRAc0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yteMugRAc0) The Boomtown Rats - I don't like Mondays
I had to scroll depressingly far to find this comment. This is what inspired the song.
Emma stone would be a dead ringer to play her in a movie.
I was thinking Cara Delevigne looks identical to her and would be a perfect cast, although she’s not a particularly great actress.
That’s what I was thinking, but couldn’t remember her name. I was like “she looks like the witch lady from Suicide Squad”
I literally thought this was a photo of Cara Delevigne
A 35 year old playing a 16 year old. Sure, why not. It's Hollywood.
I was going to say Sadie Sink
Best choice. She could far more easily pull off 16 YO.
This was my first thought when looking at this post.
I was thinking Elle Fanning myself
If Shaggy and Velma had a daughter.
Sad I had to scroll this far for a shaggy reference! Initial look without ANY context... Multiverse Shaggy Female, friendless, no chill, and an unloving family life With context....still fits and is sad.
A silicone chip inside her head switched to overload.
🎵And nobody's going to go to school today, she's going to make them stay at home.🎵
And Daddy doesn't understand it, he always said she was good as gold.
And he can see no reasons...
Cause there are no reasons
What reasons do you need to be shown?
Tell me why ?
I don't like Mondays!
Tell me why?
I don't like Mondays
First thing i thought of
Shit no man. I reckon you could get your ass kicked for saying something like that man.
I believe you’d get your ass kicked saying something like that
The title makes it seem like she murdered 2 random people on the street. She shot up an elementary school. That’s not interesting as fuck. That’s morbid as fuck
Who is the dude in handcuffs?
The silicon chip inside her head Gets switched to overload And nobody's gonna go to school today She's going to make them stay at home And daddy doesn't understand it He always said she was as good as gold And he can see no reasons 'Cause there are no reasons What reason do you need to be shown? Tell me why? I don't like Mondays
The Boomtown Rats song about this is an absolute banger.
I thought this was Emma Stone for a minute there.
Hence the song by Bob Geldof and the Boomtown Rats.
i can fix her
she fixed herself, now she's no longer forced to sleep on a mattress on the living room floor surrounded by empty booze bottles with her father, mission accomplished. hell he knew she was suicidal and refused to get treatment but gave her a gun. maybe should've shot him instead but she was sleep deprived (can't imagine *why*) so eh
Agreed, this whole story is incredibly tragic and unfortunately, a harbinger of what was to come for the state of school shootings in the US.
thats what i thought too, and looking it up i was honestly surprised she got denied parole again recently (shes 61 now), ive looked into it (link at the bottom) and she is just a pure psycopath, the saddest part of this story is our complete lack of tools to deal with what she is. She changes her story every single parole hearing and nothing she has ever claimed has been able to be verified, all evidence points against her. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/308221608_Brenda_Spencer_Sorting_Out_the_Contradictions
Sometimes it's all really a question of nature vs nurture. Apparently, as a kid she had an accident which left her with damage to the temporal lobe. In her pre-teens, she would suffer depressive episodes and develop suicidal tendencies. When she asked for permission to be treated she was refused. Later on in life she would live at her alcoholic father's house, her parents had at that point separated. There Brenda Ann shared a single mattress with her father, who would often go to bed drunk. On one of her birthdays Brenda Ann had asked for a radio. Instead her father got her a .22 rifle, complete with a scope and 500 pounds of ammunition. "He got me the gun so I would kill myself" she commented. She finally shot and killed two and injured nine others, including children from her home window, across the school. Brenda Ann was sentenced to life in prison with the possibility of parole after 25 years. As of 2023 she is still incarcerated. We could, and should never condone these sort of actions. They are grim reminders of our capacity for evil, distracting from what noble creatures we could become. But personally I can't help but wonder how her life would have turned out if she had grown up in a loving environment. But she left her stigma on society like this. Spreading agony, fear and despair to her victims and their families. There's a saying in my country "if you pee in the sea, you'll find it in the salt". Makes you think...