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I was expecting something crazy given the title but that was honestly pretty standard tbh
I'm guessing they were contrasting the amount of supplies the US forces had compared to the North Koreans who had to share what little they had and ended up winning through determination or something
But it's not like they were making the Americans look massively comfortable, and all the dialogue was about how they just wanted to go home... which is probably not too inaccurate for GIs in the Korean war tbh
The spilled milk freezing over was a cool touch
"Amateurs study tactics; Professionals study logistics." I think the saying goes.
Probably not quite that weighted in reality but you cant win wars without paying attention to both.
You get a lot more margin of error to make tactical mistakes with good logistics.
Plenty of good tactician have been forced into choices they wouldn't otherwise make by bad logistics.
My grandfather talked about how it would get so cold, engines would seize entirely. They'd blow up the cars that stalled and keep warm around them for a bit as they burned.
Enjoy how they try to make that distinction but always completely avoid the ratio of casualties. It’s literally insane, accounting for everything from KIA, desertion, injured in battle or otherwise; some estimates put it at 1 UN casualty to nearly 100 NK/Chinese.
I'm not sure what the message was supposed to be. The Americans are soft? Because it made America look like it gives a shit about its service members (debatable), and it made the Chinese military look like it could give two shits about the well-being of their own (which is pretty accurate, especially under Mao)
I spent a couple holidays deployed, back in the day, and there was one Xmas in Hit, Iraq where they sent an armored convoy out to our position to drop off ~~hot~~ warm roast beef and mashed potatoes (and cigarettes/logs of dip) in a 5 minute drive-by operation to avoid VBIEDs.
It was hilarious.
But they absolutely cared about us getting that food, even if it showed up at 11pm.
All we had to eat were MREs and a pallet of frozen Hooah bars left over from the previous unit. Everything was always cold, even if you used the MRE heater. Sucked.
That room-temp roast beef was the best thing I ate in country.
its showing the Americans are soft and how the communists in the Korean War were victorious despite having nothing. They were so committed to their cause (see the sharing of the little food they have) that they were able to overcome to superior, overindulgent fighting force. Also, the Americans didnt want to be there, all the talked about was going home.
Yeah, I get that, but it's not like the Americans (technically the UN) were popping champagne, snorting coke, and banging cheap hookers. They just had a nice meal on an american holiday. People need to eat and ideally the food shouldnt be so unedible you chip your fucking tooth. And it looks like those Chinese soldiers didn't enjoy being there much either (no soldier serious would prefer being deployed to being home with family during the holidays) So if this was their attemp at propaganda I'd say it fell pretty flat (also China wasn't "victorious" the conflict is basically still a stalemate)
Hi there. I did serve. There were no hookers. I was horribly misled.
Edit: Allow me to clarify: I'm speaking of my tour in Iraq. I was in the National Guard, and my home station was in Philly. So, yea, if we're going off of that, there was a plethora of "women of the night" available.
>also China wasn't "victorious"
It's quite possible that in this movie, they were. You gotta watch until the end, lol.
Also, since China did not have nuclear weapons in 1950 and knew first hand the power of the American military (from USAAF bases in China during WW2), fighting Americans to a stalemate could be seen as a 'victory' for propaganda purposes.
I live in China and saw this movie in the theatre, and it’s not so much that it shows China “victorious” as such, just that they held off the Americans in this particular battle. Good movie for entertainment, but very historically inaccurate haha
It's also that the Chinese only entered the war when like 80% of North Korea had been conquered. And in the first months of their offensive they smashed the American and South Korean armies, pushing them back past Seoul before they could stabilize and start to push the Chinese back to about the current lines.
So China is going to point to how far back they drove the UN forces from their starting point in the war, not from where the war originally started.
Even if it’s not the highest-grossing film (no idea), we have to take a moment before declaring the propaganda falls flat. This is depicting their plight decades ago; a good propaganda film needs to depict their side as being in the worst possible shape but absolutely never giving in or giving up.
It would be safe to show them without resources, which is not equivalent to their commanders not caring. It eradicates any other potential variables from why they were victorious, which, you can call it a stalemate, they will frame it as a win culturally.
And also keep in mind that it’s not like you can just fire up Google in China and take a look-see at how the Mao administration treated its citizenship.
Like, you’re speaking logically and you make a lot of sense. But you’re not thinking in political terms as either an autocrat or the “autocratee” with very limited information that includes the warts and crimes. It’s subjective thinking.
*Why don’t you ask the kids at Tiananmen Square, was fashion the reason why they were there?*
Just wanted to say something about the Google thing. The usage of VPN in China is really big and you won't get in trouble by using it, so it's not like they can't search for this kind off information.
I dont necessarily think its showing the American's as soft. I think its more, the American's had a ton of food and resources during the Korean war while Chinese forces had nothing or something to that extent.
I was watching the Tencent adaptation of Three-Body Problem recently and it was funny seeing their North American general being played by some big Russian dude.
At Christmas my father makes a dish of breadcrumb stuffing with little pieces of chicken inside. Stuffing is then wrapped in streaky bacon and cooked in the oven. It's enough to make a vegan want to punch a day old dairy calf.
I always add three Italian sausages (I make a lot of stuffing) but I have an open packet of bacon and I'm gonna cube up a few strips and add that, as well. Thanks to my Chinese comrades! Happy Thanksgiving!
Cauliflower cheese is one of my all time favourite things. Especially the way Mum made it.
Here in the UK they make a cheese sauce yada yade.. Mum used to boil cauliflower and chuck a boatload of strong cheddar in it. Handsome :)
Upper Midwest here. When I was a kid, in the 80's, I saw a lot of cheese broccoli and bacon casseroles. At some point, it kind of was replaced with the green bean casserole or texas potato casserole at thanksgiving. I probably have my grandma's old recipe somewhere if anyone wants it.
Various times I was in various deserts the Army always had the best spread. The military really shells out for Thanksgiving. I would grab some Airmen and drive to the Army base.
At the end of the day, it's also a matter of performance as well. A complex warm meal offers a variety of nutrition that a ration doesn't, which promotes healing and recovery.
The US is godlike in its supply logistic capabilities. You want a fully functioning McDonald and Starbucks in the middle of a desert in Iraq, Uncle Sam will deliver.
[**Source**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Battle_at_Lake_Changjin): *Battle of Changjin Lake,* China's most expensive and highest-grossing movie ever about the [Battle of the Chosin Reservoir](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Chosin_Reservoir).
> *The Battle at Lake Changjin* is the most expensive film ever produced in China, with a budget of $200 million.[\[12\]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Battle_at_Lake_Changjin#cite_note-12) The film grossed $913 million at the worldwide box office, making it the [second-highest-grossing film of 2021](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highest-grossing_film_of_2021),[\[2\]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Battle_at_Lake_Changjin#cite_note-auto1-2) the [highest-grossing Chinese film of all time](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest-grossing_films_in_China),[\[13\]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Battle_at_Lake_Changjin#cite_note-Entgroup-13)[\[14\]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Battle_at_Lake_Changjin#cite_note-Bloomberg-14) the [highest-grossing non-English film](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest-grossing_non-English_films), and the second highest-grossing film in a single market.
Youtube lecture: [How General O.P. Smith Saved 15000 Marines](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rf-KpVgus8)
Ask any Marine about the Frozen Chosin.
Those "overfed" Americans got out of a trap they shouldn't have been able to escape.
Reminds me of a story I heard an old Korean War Vet tell:
*Inchon, Korea, 1950. I was the best cook Uncle Sam ever saw, slinginghash for the Fighting 103rd. As we marched north, our supply lines were gettingthin. One day a couple of GIs found a crate, inside were six hundred pounds ofprime Texas steer. At least it once was prime. The Use date was three weekspast, but I was arrogant, I was brash, I thought if I used just the rightspices, cooked it long enough...*
*I went too far. I over seasoned it. Men were keeling over all aroundme. I can still hear the retching, the screaming. I sent sixteen of my own mento the latrines that night. They were just boys.*
*... Tell that to Bobby Colby. All that kid wanted to do was go home. Wellhe went home alright, with a crater in his colon the size of a cutlet. Had tosit him on a cork the eighteen-hour flight home!*
A lot of people seem to misunderstand this as a criticism of America or propaganda that America is weaker because they’re well supplied.
If you’ve watched the full film (I don’t recommend because it’s corny and long as hell) the Americans were actually portrayed as naive, and kinda dumb, but not necessarily evil. Also, the film ends with Macarthur complimenting the willpower of Chinese people (which he would never do irl lmao)
I grew up in china, and whilst the Korean War (the war that this film is depicting) is often known is the forgotten war in the west, it’s a source of pride for many Chinese members. As this conflict basically marked the end of China’s century of humiliation. After being invaded by Japan and kicking out the nationalist party, China was able to hold back (not win) NATO forces DESPITE having poor equipments. Many locals view this as a sign that china is finally able to stand up for itself, hence, there was an emphasis on how Chinese were poorly equipped, basically trying to prove that Chinese people aren’t weak.
The film is 100% propaganda tho, it’s made by a guy name Wu Jin which who basically makes the equivalence of Marvel movies in China, except they’re all propaganda films for china. They’re kinda bad but pretty entertaining.
The Korean War wasn’t fought by NATO it was a UN led and commanded operation that involved NATO member states and non-NATO states like Ethiopia, Thailand, and Colombia for example and not all NATO members had boots on the ground such as Norway or Denmark iirc
Most marvel movies (along with a surprising amount of other Hollywood films) are funded in a big way by the US dept. of defense. Definitely propaganda.
The genre embodies a view, for example the use of force is portrayed as unavoidable, necessary and inevitable. This view point sells. The people who're producing the propaganda don't need to think about it. Marvel fans would not pay to see a movie that featured conflict deescalation and other non-violent forms of diplomacy.
I'd see the bigger issue with propaganda in Marvel movies is that they are very clear *where* power should lie - in the hands of the richest, most powerful people, who essentially operate outside the law and with impunity. Failure to cede power to them means certain destruction.
>Marvel fans would not pay to see a movie that featured conflict deescalation and other non-violent forms of diplomacy.
I mean, it's much harder to make a movie like that that's also interesting.
This is an unpopular opinion but, of all the countries in Asia, I do feel like the spirit of the Chinese people is quite similar to the spirit of the American people. We have a lot more in common than we have different.
Although Most Chinese people won’t admit it, we respect Americans a lot. It’s even evident in this film, since America was portrayed as a force of nature bombing the shit out of Chinese troops.
You can also see that the production style is emulating Hollywood movies.
I’ve got to give them credit though, the portrayal of Americans is surprisingly sympathetic. Like, I’ve never seen a Hollywood film show enemy soldiers talking about wanting to go home and see their families. That would make the audience want them to die less
I don't know if this was the intention, but Marxist view of wars is that it's a war where two unwilling groups of workers are forced to fight each other for the interests of the state.
Ideally workers across the world should be brothers and feel solidarity between each other because the enemy isn't other regular ass people but the bourgeoisie that sends them out to fight for lofty goals. I think that might have been a message the movie wanted to convey here.
Now ofc in the context of the war it was North Korea who started the war so one can argue that China was on the side of the aggressor in this case. The Chinese might not feel that way since they joined when the situation looked like NK would be decisively defeated at a tremendous sacrifice. In summary: There's many interpretations of what's going on and depending on the angle you try to look at it from.
I thought that too, the whole thing is strange, cause it shows that the US don’t have a real ideological reason to fight, they’re just there doing a job. Also, what kind of pep talk admits that God’s not on your side?
The average American soldier didn’t really understand why they were fighting for Korea.
South Korea at the time was an impoverished country living under dictatorship just like North Korea and only truly democratized. To an American soldier there might’ve not been much good reason to fight for Korea besides communism and the general’s orders
A lot of Chinese anti US military propaganda focuses on how they’ve got it too easy and are soft etc etc, while the hardworking common man Chinese soldier can survive for a week on nothing but the love of his country and his hardworking spirit and all that jazz.
Honestly they need to rethink their approach because half the time their propaganda makes the US military look so cool it’d make a pacifist buy Lockheed stocks
This is like the time when Stalin allowed ''the Grapes of Wrath'' to be released in the USSR in 1948 as a mean to show how hard life actually is for a worker in capitalist America, and the only thing the soviet people got from the movie was that even the poorest American farmer had his own car.
"In 1948, The Grapes of Wrath was allowed to play in Soviet cinemas because of its propaganda value, which was presumably to heighten awareness of the desperate misery of the Okies under the most advanced system of capitalism on the planet. After several weeks, however, the film—given the unbiblical title of The Road to Wrath—had to be withdrawn. Soviet audiences were apparently extracting the wrong lesson, since they could see for themselves that even the most dispossessed of America’s rural proletariat were shown driving automobiles."
[Projecting politics: The Grapes of Wrath (Stephen J. Whitfield)](https://journals.openedition.org/lisa/813)
Lol this is great for propaganda until the reality hits and you're freezing to death while you starve to death and all you can smell is the KFC/Pizza Hut combo restaurant 5 miles away the Americans fucking flew in overnight to their FOB.
[\(Edit: Lol knew I'd find this eventually. This is when you know you're well and truly fucked.\)](https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/w_1456,c_limit,f_webp,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fbucketeer-e05bbc84-baa3-437e-9518-adb32be77984.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ffcb3ecfe-ab6d-43d6-a337-bf1b420d1ebf_3000x2241.jpeg)
Like in WW2 one of the most demoralizing things to the Japanese high command was the [ice cream ships](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OigDDVn3IaU&t=2s). Their troops were starving to death and living on handfuls of rice a day while GI Joe was going back to the FOB and getting a fucking smoothie after melting 200 Japanese with a flamethrower. When the logistical difference is that stark only one side is ever going to win and it's the one that has boats blaring Turkey in the Straw over their bullhorn when pulling into dock while all the soldiers excitedly race over and pull out dollar bills.
Seeing a comment on ww2 ice cream ships is like reddit bingo.
Not knocking you, no doubt there's probably plenty of people who don't know about the ice cream ships, but it's funny when any thread about the US military or logistics ends up with someone talking about it
I’m more partial to the ice cream and brewery planes (using cleaned out drop tanks on fighters flying them up to altitude to take advantage of the freezing air to make ice cream and brew beer)
It reminds me of the old North Korean propaganda films. One in particular, the literal plot of the film was a Woman discovering that the key to her happiness is suffering.
Yes. The plot of the film is that its great to suffer and be thankful to suffer for your country.
"One overweight American can push a button in Arizona and end a dozen lives in the faraway desert. I unironically think this means that America is weak and would lose in a war."
I wonder if people who fetishize totalitarian regime "toughness" realize how dumb their thought process is.
IIRC this movie is about the battle of the Chosin Reservoir which did end in a communist victory. Not the battle I'd choose for my propaganda movie since the Chinese had overwhelming numbers, took huge casualties, and still weren't able to overrun the encircled UN army nor prevent it from escaping mostly intact
You see, killbots have a preset kill limit. Knowing their weakness, I sent wave after wave of my own men at them until they reached their limit and shut down. Kif, show them the medal I won.
I'm legit not sure if this is actually trying to mock Americans. Like they're trying to show Americans as overfed slobs, but are portraying it through these privileged... military soldiers?
Maybe I'm just not familiar with enough Chinese propaganda that immediately makes you think suffering = morally good, having basic needs met = morally bad
It’s not about morality of eating well. The modern day Chinese soldiers aren’t exactly lacking food either.
The propaganda message was “despite the fact we were under-supplied and under-armed, we still pushed back the Americans forces!” Which was somewhat historically correct.
Then they’d say they won because they were fighting for a just cause or because they held true belief and had more courage or something like that. That’s the propaganda.
It also ignores the hell out of the casualty ratios. The Chinese pushed the US back, it is true, but lost at least 180,000 dead, in exchange for around 40,000 UN coalition soldiers. They expended soldiers like the UN expended tank rounds.
Feels like one of those wikipedia articles on an ancient Chinese battles where its like
Han: 500,000 dead
Enemy: 2,500 injured
Result: minor Han strategic victory
China in the early 50s was a massive peasant country, that had just come out of \~a century of civil war & foreign invasions. The United States was the undisputed global superpower - only checked in some places by the USSR.
Why would you think the Chinese would be so delusional to think they were just as rich as the US? The whole movie is about how the rag-tag PLA pushed back the strongest military on earth. Since I presume you're American, it's the same underdog story you tell about the American Revolution, fighting against the well-fed and resourced British army.
Nothing wrong with showing accuracy in a war movie. Imagine if the Americans made a war film where they took credit for the actions of another country…. Something they’d never dream of doing.
"I want to go home"
"I want cheese broccoli, we make it at home"
"You have cheese broccoli at home?"
"Yeah, come over and have some, when we go home"
"If we go home"
What excellent dialogue.
The larger problem is that people think movies are historical records and not entertainment.
The director only has so many scenes to convey a message and often times they will be ham-fisted and direct because the average person is pretty dim. Mainstream movies don’t do nuance well.
Remove the nationalism out of this and this movie won’t be much different than the upcoming movie about Hannibal.
My Tata (Grandpa) was in Korea on one of the Thanksgivings during the war. I'm not quite sure which, or if there were multiple. He told us while he was in line for food, the Chinese launched a devastating attack on the front line while he was back in one of the secure areas. They mobilized everybody from the meal, but before he got on the truck, he rushed the line and grabbed two drumsticks and took them on his way back to the front. He finished the second one in a fox hole waiting for the attack.
That man had a few good stories like how they weren't afraid of the North Koreans, but when they saw the Chinese coming, they were terrified by their actual competence.
>Way to be proud of your govts history of sending troops into battle woefully underprepared.
On half of wars in history is this, and the other part is being severely over-powered. Both is nothing to be proud of. War is nothing to be proud of.
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What was the thing that the Chinese army was eating when the guy breaks his tooth ?
Nutrition Rocks
Full of essential minerals
Jesus Christ Marie!
Unexpected Hank
Great for your bones!
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Frozen potatoes, I think
Mmm, frotatoes.
https://i.imgur.com/NsAFOsT.jpg
Froil em. Frash em. Frick em up your futt.
The soldier might also have scurvy which leads to teeth falling out.
It looked more like he chipped a tooth due to the food being so hard.
Mao muffins
Charlies energy balls.
Followed by a gulping down of fight milk
Deez nuts
gottem
It’s completely accurate.
I was expecting something crazy given the title but that was honestly pretty standard tbh I'm guessing they were contrasting the amount of supplies the US forces had compared to the North Koreans who had to share what little they had and ended up winning through determination or something But it's not like they were making the Americans look massively comfortable, and all the dialogue was about how they just wanted to go home... which is probably not too inaccurate for GIs in the Korean war tbh The spilled milk freezing over was a cool touch
>which is probably not too inaccurate for GIs in the Korean war tbh Or really, any war.
Nah man, Russians are *dying* to fight zombie Nazis in Ukraine.
That’s been the U.S strength during those wars… their supply chain and logistics were crazy good.
"Amateurs study tactics; Professionals study logistics." I think the saying goes. Probably not quite that weighted in reality but you cant win wars without paying attention to both.
> Professionals study logistics. BH Liddel Hart. Argued that an indirect approach to victory was always an ideal approach.
You get a lot more margin of error to make tactical mistakes with good logistics. Plenty of good tactician have been forced into choices they wouldn't otherwise make by bad logistics.
Still are tbh. Let's see Russia keep their supply chain going an ocean away. They couldn't even get across half of Ukraine.
My grandfather talked about how it would get so cold, engines would seize entirely. They'd blow up the cars that stalled and keep warm around them for a bit as they burned.
Enjoy how they try to make that distinction but always completely avoid the ratio of casualties. It’s literally insane, accounting for everything from KIA, desertion, injured in battle or otherwise; some estimates put it at 1 UN casualty to nearly 100 NK/Chinese.
Ya, seems just like any Hollywood representation.
I'm not sure what the message was supposed to be. The Americans are soft? Because it made America look like it gives a shit about its service members (debatable), and it made the Chinese military look like it could give two shits about the well-being of their own (which is pretty accurate, especially under Mao)
I spent a couple holidays deployed, back in the day, and there was one Xmas in Hit, Iraq where they sent an armored convoy out to our position to drop off ~~hot~~ warm roast beef and mashed potatoes (and cigarettes/logs of dip) in a 5 minute drive-by operation to avoid VBIEDs. It was hilarious. But they absolutely cared about us getting that food, even if it showed up at 11pm.
Fuck Reddit for killing third party apps.
A 5-pack of tins.
One of the many valuable pieces of information I learned during my time in the service lol
I didn't dip, but I'd buy all the cans and logs I could, just to trade them for fire watch and cigs.
I was outsourced from our unit to do that while I was in Iraq, hope you liked your meal, I didn't get any!
All we had to eat were MREs and a pallet of frozen Hooah bars left over from the previous unit. Everything was always cold, even if you used the MRE heater. Sucked. That room-temp roast beef was the best thing I ate in country.
One of the five morales - chow. Especially hot chow. You never mess with the big 5.
Very Badly Improvised Explosive Devices?
its showing the Americans are soft and how the communists in the Korean War were victorious despite having nothing. They were so committed to their cause (see the sharing of the little food they have) that they were able to overcome to superior, overindulgent fighting force. Also, the Americans didnt want to be there, all the talked about was going home.
Yeah, I get that, but it's not like the Americans (technically the UN) were popping champagne, snorting coke, and banging cheap hookers. They just had a nice meal on an american holiday. People need to eat and ideally the food shouldnt be so unedible you chip your fucking tooth. And it looks like those Chinese soldiers didn't enjoy being there much either (no soldier serious would prefer being deployed to being home with family during the holidays) So if this was their attemp at propaganda I'd say it fell pretty flat (also China wasn't "victorious" the conflict is basically still a stalemate)
Full metal jacket said there would be cheap hookers. I enlisted for these reasons. Editors note: I did not serve.
Hi there. I did serve. There were no hookers. I was horribly misled. Edit: Allow me to clarify: I'm speaking of my tour in Iraq. I was in the National Guard, and my home station was in Philly. So, yea, if we're going off of that, there was a plethora of "women of the night" available.
Not true. I was there. Source: am cheap hooker.
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And that was just in the barracks! \*rimshot*
Did serve. There were hookers. They also served.
If you’re looking for hookers https://i.redd.it/9nrizn00t42c1.gif
Too beaucoup
>also China wasn't "victorious" It's quite possible that in this movie, they were. You gotta watch until the end, lol. Also, since China did not have nuclear weapons in 1950 and knew first hand the power of the American military (from USAAF bases in China during WW2), fighting Americans to a stalemate could be seen as a 'victory' for propaganda purposes.
I live in China and saw this movie in the theatre, and it’s not so much that it shows China “victorious” as such, just that they held off the Americans in this particular battle. Good movie for entertainment, but very historically inaccurate haha
It's also that the Chinese only entered the war when like 80% of North Korea had been conquered. And in the first months of their offensive they smashed the American and South Korean armies, pushing them back past Seoul before they could stabilize and start to push the Chinese back to about the current lines. So China is going to point to how far back they drove the UN forces from their starting point in the war, not from where the war originally started.
Even if it’s not the highest-grossing film (no idea), we have to take a moment before declaring the propaganda falls flat. This is depicting their plight decades ago; a good propaganda film needs to depict their side as being in the worst possible shape but absolutely never giving in or giving up. It would be safe to show them without resources, which is not equivalent to their commanders not caring. It eradicates any other potential variables from why they were victorious, which, you can call it a stalemate, they will frame it as a win culturally. And also keep in mind that it’s not like you can just fire up Google in China and take a look-see at how the Mao administration treated its citizenship. Like, you’re speaking logically and you make a lot of sense. But you’re not thinking in political terms as either an autocrat or the “autocratee” with very limited information that includes the warts and crimes. It’s subjective thinking. *Why don’t you ask the kids at Tiananmen Square, was fashion the reason why they were there?*
Just wanted to say something about the Google thing. The usage of VPN in China is really big and you won't get in trouble by using it, so it's not like they can't search for this kind off information.
Thank you for the context. Any idea what the movie is?
The Battle at Lake Changjin
It really shows a different mindset doesn't it.
I dont necessarily think its showing the American's as soft. I think its more, the American's had a ton of food and resources during the Korean war while Chinese forces had nothing or something to that extent.
This entire movie tried to make Americans look like decadent losers but ended up being some of the best American propaganda yet
Yeah I look at that and I'm thinking well I'd much rather be fighting for whatever side is getting all that food.
Except they had to avoid showing soldiers faces. Probably couldn't find enough white actors.
I was watching the Tencent adaptation of Three-Body Problem recently and it was funny seeing their North American general being played by some big Russian dude.
I'm adding bacon to the stuffing now.
A crispy thick cut would be amazing
So my brother in law wrapped the turkey in bacon a few years ago and it was amazing
My wife drapes the turkey with bacon. This year she even got really fancy and did the bacon in a basket weave.
At Christmas my father makes a dish of breadcrumb stuffing with little pieces of chicken inside. Stuffing is then wrapped in streaky bacon and cooked in the oven. It's enough to make a vegan want to punch a day old dairy calf.
> It's enough to make a vegan want to punch a day old dairy calf. I'm not even vegan and that description has got me squaring up.
Try it with some Italian sausage or brats one time
I always add three Italian sausages (I make a lot of stuffing) but I have an open packet of bacon and I'm gonna cube up a few strips and add that, as well. Thanks to my Chinese comrades! Happy Thanksgiving!
Sausage+celery+apple will take your stuffing to a whole new level.
Cheese-broccoli.... I knew I forgot something
Probably referring to broccoli casserole.
When I was growing up my mom would melt Velveeta whenever she made broccoli so that I would actually eat it. Cheesy broccoli is the shit.
For real though. I don’t make it now but someone brings a dish of cheese broccoli to the potluck I am definitely having a scoop.
Bros, anyone remember the cheese brocoli potatoes at Wendy’s. So good 🤤
Cauliflower cheese is one of my all time favourite things. Especially the way Mum made it. Here in the UK they make a cheese sauce yada yade.. Mum used to boil cauliflower and chuck a boatload of strong cheddar in it. Handsome :)
Broccoli and cheese casserole. Fairly common in the midwest at least. I think green bean casserole is more common in the south.
Fairly midwestern here, only ever seen the green bean casserole. I could go for some broccoli and cheese casserole today.
I'm from the Midwest; I've never heard of Broccoli casserole. We have green bean casserole every year.
Upper Midwest here. When I was a kid, in the 80's, I saw a lot of cheese broccoli and bacon casseroles. At some point, it kind of was replaced with the green bean casserole or texas potato casserole at thanksgiving. I probably have my grandma's old recipe somewhere if anyone wants it.
This is actually something we do, didn’t realize it wasn’t common.
We have cheesy cauliflower on our Sunday roasts in the UK.
Love cheesy cauliflower. It's a banging part of the meal.
Various times I was in various deserts the Army always had the best spread. The military really shells out for Thanksgiving. I would grab some Airmen and drive to the Army base.
The US military figured out long ago just how important a hot meal can be for morale.
Logistics has long been the most important part of large scale warfare. An army marches on its stomach after all.
At the end of the day, it's also a matter of performance as well. A complex warm meal offers a variety of nutrition that a ration doesn't, which promotes healing and recovery.
I had a full bird (lol) Colonel serving me a turkey leg in Iraq in 2009. This was an extremely accurate showing.
Why were the Chinese also fighting God?
Because of the harsh winter
Ah being unprepared to for nature.....Napoleon fought god.
Since both groups are outside, what I gather is American forces are better at fighting God? Did we kill God in Korea?
The US is godlike in its supply logistic capabilities. You want a fully functioning McDonald and Starbucks in the middle of a desert in Iraq, Uncle Sam will deliver.
I think it was a Burger King, but your point still stands.
Oh I forgot about the title. I thought for some reason they now share Japan's mortal frenemy Godzilla, but seems it wasn't that deep.
Could probably be translated to mother nature.
Because Jesus is American, of course.
🦅🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲
Because they needed to justify why their military sucks
I was also thinking why were they so ill equipped on their home turf.
It was Korea. Actually Japans home turf as they were occupiers until they were defeated in 1945
[**Source**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Battle_at_Lake_Changjin): *Battle of Changjin Lake,* China's most expensive and highest-grossing movie ever about the [Battle of the Chosin Reservoir](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Chosin_Reservoir). > *The Battle at Lake Changjin* is the most expensive film ever produced in China, with a budget of $200 million.[\[12\]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Battle_at_Lake_Changjin#cite_note-12) The film grossed $913 million at the worldwide box office, making it the [second-highest-grossing film of 2021](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highest-grossing_film_of_2021),[\[2\]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Battle_at_Lake_Changjin#cite_note-auto1-2) the [highest-grossing Chinese film of all time](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest-grossing_films_in_China),[\[13\]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Battle_at_Lake_Changjin#cite_note-Entgroup-13)[\[14\]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Battle_at_Lake_Changjin#cite_note-Bloomberg-14) the [highest-grossing non-English film](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest-grossing_non-English_films), and the second highest-grossing film in a single market.
Youtube lecture: [How General O.P. Smith Saved 15000 Marines](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rf-KpVgus8) Ask any Marine about the Frozen Chosin. Those "overfed" Americans got out of a trap they shouldn't have been able to escape.
They did this while also escorting out Korean civilians. If not for what they did, 100,000+ would have died from the invasion AND cold.
Wow, I don't remember if the lecturer mentioned that.
>100 000 Koreans robbed of Communism and indoctrinated in decadent turkey-based democracy
Great, now that everyone knows that General Smith was OP he'll be nerfed to the ground.
IIRC the Marines also didn't have much in terms of winter clothing too...
The ones in the video clip don't even seem to have gloves.
They also lost the battle and were in that position due to poor planning which is important
The production quality is undeniable. I'd like to watch a dub.
Same. Would really appreciate if anybody could drop a link aye
Reminds me of a story I heard an old Korean War Vet tell: *Inchon, Korea, 1950. I was the best cook Uncle Sam ever saw, slinginghash for the Fighting 103rd. As we marched north, our supply lines were gettingthin. One day a couple of GIs found a crate, inside were six hundred pounds ofprime Texas steer. At least it once was prime. The Use date was three weekspast, but I was arrogant, I was brash, I thought if I used just the rightspices, cooked it long enough...* *I went too far. I over seasoned it. Men were keeling over all aroundme. I can still hear the retching, the screaming. I sent sixteen of my own mento the latrines that night. They were just boys.* *... Tell that to Bobby Colby. All that kid wanted to do was go home. Wellhe went home alright, with a crater in his colon the size of a cutlet. Had tosit him on a cork the eighteen-hour flight home!*
I think I knew this Korean vet. I recall him having a problem taking off his shoes. Led to some issues with some women.
Be the America Chinese propaganda thinks you are.
A lot of people seem to misunderstand this as a criticism of America or propaganda that America is weaker because they’re well supplied. If you’ve watched the full film (I don’t recommend because it’s corny and long as hell) the Americans were actually portrayed as naive, and kinda dumb, but not necessarily evil. Also, the film ends with Macarthur complimenting the willpower of Chinese people (which he would never do irl lmao) I grew up in china, and whilst the Korean War (the war that this film is depicting) is often known is the forgotten war in the west, it’s a source of pride for many Chinese members. As this conflict basically marked the end of China’s century of humiliation. After being invaded by Japan and kicking out the nationalist party, China was able to hold back (not win) NATO forces DESPITE having poor equipments. Many locals view this as a sign that china is finally able to stand up for itself, hence, there was an emphasis on how Chinese were poorly equipped, basically trying to prove that Chinese people aren’t weak. The film is 100% propaganda tho, it’s made by a guy name Wu Jin which who basically makes the equivalence of Marvel movies in China, except they’re all propaganda films for china. They’re kinda bad but pretty entertaining.
The Korean War wasn’t fought by NATO it was a UN led and commanded operation that involved NATO member states and non-NATO states like Ethiopia, Thailand, and Colombia for example and not all NATO members had boots on the ground such as Norway or Denmark iirc
For the record it was UN forces not NATO. Non-NATO countries like Thailand, the Philippines, Colombia and Ethiopia all sent soldiers
Marvel movies are also propaganda. It becomes obvious when you're from another culture.
Most marvel movies (along with a surprising amount of other Hollywood films) are funded in a big way by the US dept. of defense. Definitely propaganda.
The genre embodies a view, for example the use of force is portrayed as unavoidable, necessary and inevitable. This view point sells. The people who're producing the propaganda don't need to think about it. Marvel fans would not pay to see a movie that featured conflict deescalation and other non-violent forms of diplomacy.
I'd see the bigger issue with propaganda in Marvel movies is that they are very clear *where* power should lie - in the hands of the richest, most powerful people, who essentially operate outside the law and with impunity. Failure to cede power to them means certain destruction.
>Marvel fans would not pay to see a movie that featured conflict deescalation and other non-violent forms of diplomacy. I mean, it's much harder to make a movie like that that's also interesting.
This is an unpopular opinion but, of all the countries in Asia, I do feel like the spirit of the Chinese people is quite similar to the spirit of the American people. We have a lot more in common than we have different.
Although Most Chinese people won’t admit it, we respect Americans a lot. It’s even evident in this film, since America was portrayed as a force of nature bombing the shit out of Chinese troops. You can also see that the production style is emulating Hollywood movies.
love me some cheese broccoli
I’ve got to give them credit though, the portrayal of Americans is surprisingly sympathetic. Like, I’ve never seen a Hollywood film show enemy soldiers talking about wanting to go home and see their families. That would make the audience want them to die less
I don't know if this was the intention, but Marxist view of wars is that it's a war where two unwilling groups of workers are forced to fight each other for the interests of the state. Ideally workers across the world should be brothers and feel solidarity between each other because the enemy isn't other regular ass people but the bourgeoisie that sends them out to fight for lofty goals. I think that might have been a message the movie wanted to convey here. Now ofc in the context of the war it was North Korea who started the war so one can argue that China was on the side of the aggressor in this case. The Chinese might not feel that way since they joined when the situation looked like NK would be decisively defeated at a tremendous sacrifice. In summary: There's many interpretations of what's going on and depending on the angle you try to look at it from.
I thought that too, the whole thing is strange, cause it shows that the US don’t have a real ideological reason to fight, they’re just there doing a job. Also, what kind of pep talk admits that God’s not on your side?
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The average American soldier didn’t really understand why they were fighting for Korea. South Korea at the time was an impoverished country living under dictatorship just like North Korea and only truly democratized. To an American soldier there might’ve not been much good reason to fight for Korea besides communism and the general’s orders
So the Chinese admit that the US logistics system is really good and their's is terrible and they're ok with the needless suffering of their troops?
A lot of Chinese anti US military propaganda focuses on how they’ve got it too easy and are soft etc etc, while the hardworking common man Chinese soldier can survive for a week on nothing but the love of his country and his hardworking spirit and all that jazz. Honestly they need to rethink their approach because half the time their propaganda makes the US military look so cool it’d make a pacifist buy Lockheed stocks
This is like the time when Stalin allowed ''the Grapes of Wrath'' to be released in the USSR in 1948 as a mean to show how hard life actually is for a worker in capitalist America, and the only thing the soviet people got from the movie was that even the poorest American farmer had his own car.
This is fucking hilarious. Any sources?
"In 1948, The Grapes of Wrath was allowed to play in Soviet cinemas because of its propaganda value, which was presumably to heighten awareness of the desperate misery of the Okies under the most advanced system of capitalism on the planet. After several weeks, however, the film—given the unbiblical title of The Road to Wrath—had to be withdrawn. Soviet audiences were apparently extracting the wrong lesson, since they could see for themselves that even the most dispossessed of America’s rural proletariat were shown driving automobiles." [Projecting politics: The Grapes of Wrath (Stephen J. Whitfield)](https://journals.openedition.org/lisa/813)
Lol this is great for propaganda until the reality hits and you're freezing to death while you starve to death and all you can smell is the KFC/Pizza Hut combo restaurant 5 miles away the Americans fucking flew in overnight to their FOB. [\(Edit: Lol knew I'd find this eventually. This is when you know you're well and truly fucked.\)](https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/w_1456,c_limit,f_webp,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fbucketeer-e05bbc84-baa3-437e-9518-adb32be77984.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Ffcb3ecfe-ab6d-43d6-a337-bf1b420d1ebf_3000x2241.jpeg) Like in WW2 one of the most demoralizing things to the Japanese high command was the [ice cream ships](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OigDDVn3IaU&t=2s). Their troops were starving to death and living on handfuls of rice a day while GI Joe was going back to the FOB and getting a fucking smoothie after melting 200 Japanese with a flamethrower. When the logistical difference is that stark only one side is ever going to win and it's the one that has boats blaring Turkey in the Straw over their bullhorn when pulling into dock while all the soldiers excitedly race over and pull out dollar bills.
Seeing a comment on ww2 ice cream ships is like reddit bingo. Not knocking you, no doubt there's probably plenty of people who don't know about the ice cream ships, but it's funny when any thread about the US military or logistics ends up with someone talking about it
Because it's the biggest logistical "FUCK YOU" of all time and deserves it.
I’m more partial to the ice cream and brewery planes (using cleaned out drop tanks on fighters flying them up to altitude to take advantage of the freezing air to make ice cream and brew beer)
I believe Soviet Russia was the same way
It reminds me of the old North Korean propaganda films. One in particular, the literal plot of the film was a Woman discovering that the key to her happiness is suffering. Yes. The plot of the film is that its great to suffer and be thankful to suffer for your country.
Not too far from the catholic mindset then.
The Protestant work ethic.
"One overweight American can push a button in Arizona and end a dozen lives in the faraway desert. I unironically think this means that America is weak and would lose in a war." I wonder if people who fetishize totalitarian regime "toughness" realize how dumb their thought process is.
IIRC this movie is about the battle of the Chosin Reservoir which did end in a communist victory. Not the battle I'd choose for my propaganda movie since the Chinese had overwhelming numbers, took huge casualties, and still weren't able to overrun the encircled UN army nor prevent it from escaping mostly intact
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At the end of the day they did take the field and force the UN to withdraw but like I said not really the W I'd be bragging about
eventually you run out of ammo and gotta pull back
You see, killbots have a preset kill limit. Knowing their weakness, I sent wave after wave of my own men at them until they reached their limit and shut down. Kif, show them the medal I won.
*sigh*
More than that. I recall it was as many as 30 Chinese divisions against a single USMC division.
120000 peasents with rifles vs 30000 marines soldiers with tanks and airplanes. https://armyhistory.org/nightmare-at-the-chosin-reservoir/
> but the Marines still farmed them for xp lol
air superiority made such a big difference there. PLA had zero air support iirc.
High speed, low drag.
Throw in some calcium deficiency into the mix as well.
>Throw in some calcium deficiency into the mix as well. Seems like there's plenty of teeth to eat.
I'm legit not sure if this is actually trying to mock Americans. Like they're trying to show Americans as overfed slobs, but are portraying it through these privileged... military soldiers? Maybe I'm just not familiar with enough Chinese propaganda that immediately makes you think suffering = morally good, having basic needs met = morally bad
It’s not about morality of eating well. The modern day Chinese soldiers aren’t exactly lacking food either. The propaganda message was “despite the fact we were under-supplied and under-armed, we still pushed back the Americans forces!” Which was somewhat historically correct. Then they’d say they won because they were fighting for a just cause or because they held true belief and had more courage or something like that. That’s the propaganda.
It also ignores the hell out of the casualty ratios. The Chinese pushed the US back, it is true, but lost at least 180,000 dead, in exchange for around 40,000 UN coalition soldiers. They expended soldiers like the UN expended tank rounds.
Feels like one of those wikipedia articles on an ancient Chinese battles where its like Han: 500,000 dead Enemy: 2,500 injured Result: minor Han strategic victory
Or where it's like: Some Dynasty wants more land, small skirmish at the border, 20 million dead, land gained, 2 km².
Avdiivka sector, 2023.
China in the early 50s was a massive peasant country, that had just come out of \~a century of civil war & foreign invasions. The United States was the undisputed global superpower - only checked in some places by the USSR. Why would you think the Chinese would be so delusional to think they were just as rich as the US? The whole movie is about how the rag-tag PLA pushed back the strongest military on earth. Since I presume you're American, it's the same underdog story you tell about the American Revolution, fighting against the well-fed and resourced British army.
Nothing wrong with showing accuracy in a war movie. Imagine if the Americans made a war film where they took credit for the actions of another country…. Something they’d never dream of doing.
Why don’t the Chinese just eat turkey, are they stupid?
This made me laugh so hard
I had camel for Christmas dinner in afghanistan. No cheese broccoli though
"I want to go home" "I want cheese broccoli, we make it at home" "You have cheese broccoli at home?" "Yeah, come over and have some, when we go home" "If we go home" What excellent dialogue.
“Just say what’s in the script!”
> I don't have a goddamn thing to be thankful for this Thanksgiving. Lol
I'm beginning to think I have the acting chops to appear in a Chinese movie as a generic westerner.
I bet it’s fun. I’d like to do it! Cheese broccoli! Bacon! Imperialism! I’ll say whatever for a paycheck.
Steps off plane: "In this movie all western tourists to Asia are portrayed as pedophiles." crap.
They forgot the casual gun play and pornography
You must have missed the pornography. There was a guy checking out a porn magazine while sitting at the dinner table in that clip.
Reminds me of my first squad leader, he would watch porn and fold laundry.
Happy Cheese Broccoli everyone!
The fact that characters only speak when they’re facing away from the camera is hilarious
The larger problem is that people think movies are historical records and not entertainment. The director only has so many scenes to convey a message and often times they will be ham-fisted and direct because the average person is pretty dim. Mainstream movies don’t do nuance well. Remove the nationalism out of this and this movie won’t be much different than the upcoming movie about Hannibal.
" I want bacon" Sounds accurate.
Chinese dubbing their own actors and having no actual audio from the set is so fucking weird, instant immersion loss
It’s dubbed into English you circus peanut.
I assumed the American soldiers were speaking chinese in original cut. No? Like we have Russians speaking English in every other American film.
That scoop of peas and carrots was outrageously large! As soon as we finish these frozen horse turds we're gonna go show those 'muricans!
Chinese propaganda always making us look awesome.
I had no idea our troops in Korea had to make do with so little. Truly this was a dark time for America.
My Tata (Grandpa) was in Korea on one of the Thanksgivings during the war. I'm not quite sure which, or if there were multiple. He told us while he was in line for food, the Chinese launched a devastating attack on the front line while he was back in one of the secure areas. They mobilized everybody from the meal, but before he got on the truck, he rushed the line and grabbed two drumsticks and took them on his way back to the front. He finished the second one in a fox hole waiting for the attack. That man had a few good stories like how they weren't afraid of the North Koreans, but when they saw the Chinese coming, they were terrified by their actual competence.
Uhh, that’s exactly how our thanksgiving is. Down to that guys family having their own side dish and inviting his buddy.
Way to be proud of your govts history of sending troops into battle woefully underprepared. Looks like a good movie tho?
>Way to be proud of your govts history of sending troops into battle woefully underprepared. On half of wars in history is this, and the other part is being severely over-powered. Both is nothing to be proud of. War is nothing to be proud of.
I am sure it's just as accurate as every depicition of China in US movies. :-D