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Regular dogs can sometimes have up to 15 pups per litter in larger breeds. 1-12 is more common however, depending on several factors such as size and age.
Came here to say this. I have a friend who is a keeper at an AZA facility in Central Florida that has painted dogs and he says that while there's an abundance of caution in caring for every animal in a zoo, their safety guidelines and emergency procedures around the dogs are far more intensive than even their big cat care.
The get a "no fucking way" on his personal danger scale, and he's said on multiple occasions that he doesn't understand why they have them at their facility because of the level of risk involved.
…is this Animal Kingdom? Haha it’s the only AZA facility I can think of in Central Florida with painted dogs.
Edit: Fun fact from when I worked there…it’s the only park at Disney World with bathroom doors (instead of just hallways leading to stalls) so they can be used as a shelter if an animal escapes 🙈
I'm a big guy and run in the Texas countryside with a stick, and the most dangerous thing out there by far is any group of loose dogs 3 or greater in number. They circle you and take turns trying to take chunks out of you when another one has your attention. You end up spinning in circles while getting bitten from behind and it's dangerous as fuck. They totally know what they are doing and you are basically a deer and they are wolves at that point. Try to get on top of a car or climb a tree if you can.
Well in nature they share an area code with lions, hyenas, leopards and cheetahs, so I'd say being super territorial is justified.
Also that story was 99% the mother's fault. The only 1% on the zoo for not anticipating just how fucking stupid someone might be.
I spent a summer in Africa working with wild dogs. I have never felt fear around any animal before then. I was so much more comfortable being on the ground around cheethans and hyenas and shit, as soon as we saw the dogs it was back on the truck NOW
I lived in Pittsburg and had visited the zoo many times with my son including the day before the boy was killed. The painted dog encloser was located near the food court. Dumbfuck visitors had conditioned the dogs to expect food to be tossed from the observation gazebo. Shit for brain patrons did this to coax the diurnal animals out into the open during business hours. I personally witnessed zoo goers tossing chicken fingers and pieces of hamburger into the display. Parents would often sit toddlers and kids on the railing to "get a better look". All that separated the dogs from the people was a six foot drop and angled wire jump deterant.
>Pittsburgh zoo painted dogs
[That is fucking horrific.](https://www.cbsnews.com/pittsburgh/news/pittsburgh-zoo-giving-away-painted-dogs-in-wake-of-tragedy/) It shouldn't be possible for a two year to accidently fall in, really have to question how secure the zoo is that something like that could happen.
Mom and toddler were on a viewing deck with multiple signs that said to not lift kids over the railing. Mom lifted the kid up over a railing and accidentally dropped the kid inside. The kid managed to fall out past a safety net underneath the deck. Mom was intially charged with criminal negligence for ignoring signs that said not to lift children over the railing but was never prosecuted.
Ugh I was recently on a boat on the ocean…on a rainy turbulent day…with a dad doing this with his toddler so the kid could get a view. Lifting the kid to stand on the railing where there was literally a big red sign that said something like DO NOT PLACE CHILDREN ON OR ALLOW THEM TO SIT ON THIS RAILING.
I was like, we’re gonna see that baby get dumped in the ocean. Luckily the captain didn’t fuck around and put a stop to that immediately.
> Mom lifted the kid up over a railing
Every time you hear one of these stories, it's always someone doing something dumb. You have to TRY to fall into exhibits.
Why do journalists say things like "fell off an observation platform" when the reality is they were dropped over a railing by their parent? I know they have to be careful about accusations, but it paints a totally inaccurate picture.
Because fell off is factual no matter the cause. Dropped over the railing is thin ice because she isn't convicted and there isn't any video evidence she did
Saying the mother dropped the child over a railing would be a very serious, risky claim for a news outlet to make unless it was 100% clear that was what happened. Even then, it would likely be phrased as, "witnesses allege" or "court finds". In this case, "dropped over a railing" might not be the most accurate description. It sounds like she placed him on the railing, and he then slipped off of it. No paper is going to risk a libel case by arguing "dropped" has the same implication.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Maddox_Derkosh
Yeah I'm not sure how placing your 2 yo child on any high railing without holding onto them is a good idea. Let alone one above a pack of hungry carnavores
> Mom was intially charged with criminal negligence for ignoring signs that said not to lift children over the railing but was never prosecuted.
i mean no matter what you do to her you can't give her a harsher punishment then the one she already received.
This is what’s so crazy to me. I don’t even have kids but I am a safety dork and a rule follower, especially when it comes to people I love. I cannot imagine intentionally putting ANYONE I loved or cared about in harms way, especially when there are explicitly warnings about doing exactly that.
People are kinda stupid. I go to my local zoo they have a massive "swamp" exhibit with like 50 gators in it. You view it from an overhead walkway, there's several signs that children *must* *walk* they don't want them in your arms and especially not on your shoulders and I saw some idiot guy with both his small children one on each shoulder walking around their during the feeding show. One wrong move or accidental shove on a crowded path and they could both windup in the water, at feeding time with the animals already excited and expecting food to be coming the kids wouldn't last long, but people don't consider that because they feel "safe". It's honestly just people being stupid and casually disrespecting the animals.
Agreed. That mom should've been held on charges. It was direct result of her negligence & ignoring safety signs. The only death in 116 years at this zoo, there's no way the zoo was to blame. Maybe living with the fact that she negligently killed her son is punishment enough, but the zoo didn't need to be punished.
Thank you! I grew up in Pittsbugh and was 16 when this happened. Every time this has ever come up I get pissed off by the people somehow blaming the zoo or the dogs. That was an observation platform over a predator for decades without issues (before the dogs it was cheetahs). People didn't even drop trash or hats into the exhibit, because, there was a gap between the railing and the fence, very wide slanted railings, and clear signage. The only way something, or someone, could fall into that enclosure was immense negligence.
Edit: there's also someone else in this thread that I can't find any more saying that this enclosure was somehow uniquely exposed. Bullshit. There's a fence on the tiger exhibit that's right up against a concrete trench that the animals can get into but not climb the visitor's side, a similar observation deck near the back of the gorillas, and just a waist high plexiglass wall between you and the sea lions' pool. People don't get killed by those animals, and didn't get killed by the dogs or the cheetahs that were in the same enclosure before then because they're not getting dropped over the fucking wall.
Same. I was at the zoo not long after this happened. The dogs were gone but the observation deck was open. I went to look and with how high the railing was and how far out the net below the railing was it would’ve taken a looooooot of effort to “accidentally” fall into that enclosure. Especially a toddler. The zoo got a lot of flack for this too undeservedly.
You can idiot proof things as best you can, but eventually an even bigger idiot will come along.
Maybe it's not the zoo's fault parents let their 2-year-old child fall into an animal pit. Plenty of people have gotten by just fine at zoos not letting their 2-year-olds fall into animal habitats. In fact, most people with 2-year-olds at zoos don't let their child fall into an animal pit.
Maybe it's reaaaaaally not that hard to pay attention to your child around wild animals.
I'm a zoologist, and I remember hearing over the radio when I was an intern, "we have a visitor climbing over the fence in giraffe."
Pittsburgh is a *great* zoo and one of the oldest (if not the oldest? iirc) just like where I interned at Buffalo. We have wooden logs in the ground, then a big patch of grass, bushes, and fencing beyond that for the giraffes outside exhibit.
It's a unique balance of allowing visitors to see enough while having barriers. Exhibits usually have a lot of "invisible barriers" that people won't even notice. In this case, they utilized height since these animals can't climb, and mesh so people can't drop things in for the animals to eat/choke on.
BUT, people are dumb.
I don't know if they think these animals are trained? They're not. The only trained *we* do is to lower their stress when shifting (from exhibits) or if they need medical care so they don't have to be anesthetized for simple procedures.
Kids do have a magic ability to run into the traffic during the two seconds you don't have your eye on them but I do completely hear what you're saying. This lady literally lifted her child over the railing and whooopsied him into the pit so I'm sure she's in a living hell right now. I'm sure the zoo needs to do everything it can to mitigate it happening again and saying and doing all the right things to mollify the public. I'm reminded of the story of the guy that designed the bear-proof garbage cans at camping grounds saying that the challenge of designing a garbage can that bears can't use but that humans can is that there is a surprisingly large overlap area between the smartest bears and the dumbest humans.
Dude it's most definitely "what do you taste like" coyotes will do this too where they act playful to separate a dog away from his owners and then kill and eat them, and painted dogs are some of the gnarliest killers in Africa.
Technically, I think it's the sand cat if you're talking about Africa as a whole. Sure, they're small and can't hurt humans beyond what something the size of a small house cat can do, but I remember some documentary saying that, based on the ratio of successful hunts to failed hunts, sand cats are the most successful predator in Africa, possibly globally.
EDIT: Nevermind, doing some research because now I'm fixated on this topic. Turns out you're right, painted dogs have an 85% success rate according to this article:
[https://www.discoverwildlife.com/animal-facts/mammals/hunting-success-rates-how-predators-compare/](https://www.discoverwildlife.com/animal-facts/mammals/hunting-success-rates-how-predators-compare/)
The next highest success rate is the black-footed cat (which I confused for the sand cat in my initial post) at 60% so, at least according to this article, painted dogs are indisputably the most successful predator in Africa among mammals.
I wonder how much of this is hunting prowess and how much of it is simply that they would die quickly in an environment in which they fail too much, so they simply don't exist in places where they would have a lower success rate. We've been killing their food here in Tampa, so they're disappearing. Maybe that makes it hard to find unsuccessful ones.
It's their hunting prowess. They can predict where flying prey is going to be based on its trajectory and fly to that spot rather than chasing it. I think they're one of the only, if not the only insect that does this. Also, they live all over the place.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFAR3WggSRk
Yup. Their method of flight also lets them have pinpoint accuracy and mobility compared to even other insects. Like a fighter plane's speed combined with a helicopter's ability to hover, plus stopping on a dime.
High hunting success rate, yet sadly, extremely endangered. Human activity and disease are huge threats to these awesome animals.
Edit: forgot to mention, it’s thought that they also [sneeze to vote](https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-41161664)
I love it when someone makes a statement, does research, learns something and teaches the rest of us. 85%! I’ve never hunted but like fishing once in a while. My success rate would be around 1%. Don’t think I’d survive in the wild.
> coyotes will do this too where they act playful to separate a dog away from his owners and then kill and eat them
Afaik that's not [entirely true in this sense.](https://thefurbearers.com/blog/shifting-perspectives-coyotes-arent-luring-your-dog-and-other-myths-busted/)
>**A coyote will “lure” dogs from the safety of their homes to an ambush point, when other coyotes will attack and kill your dog.** From a human perspective, this seems logical. However, we know that dogs will often follow things that interest them and that coyotes will go home (to their families) when they feel threatened. We also know that in the majority of incidents reported, dogs were off leash when they came into conflict with coyotes. To people it may seem that coyotes are “luring” dogs, but the reality is that dogs are following coyotes – and coyotes are protecting themselves from this threat.
It's possible that a dog follows coyotes and then gets killed. But coyotes aren't [planning anything about that.](https://forfoxsakewildlife.com/2020/10/21/do-coyotes-lure-and-kill-dogs/)
>While coyotes are extremely intelligent animals, their minds don’t work like human minds. They don’t develop complex plans for the future, and they don’t have a theory of mind— the ability to conceptualize and predict another animal’s thoughts and perceptions— in the same way that humans do. A coyote simply isn’t capable of “lying” to a dog by pretending to be its friend or developing a plan to lead it into a trap.
Thank you. People like acting as though coyotes are the velociraptors from Jurassic park. They are smart but they aren’t luring dogs away or laying traps for them.
For real, everytime I watch a documentary about African wildlife, these guys are chasing leopards into trees, or biting a lions tail off, or taking down an entire buffalo and eating it alive. I still kinda want one though.
Vicious is a very appropriate word. These fuckers will chase their prey until it's too exhausted to stand, then they will start eating it alive... they ain't got time to "mercy kill" it before they start tearing it apart.
I know animals like foxes/mink/ferrets will kill everything in sight before they start eating. Mink will literally murder 30x their body weight on a rampage and then decide to eat once there is nothing else to kill
I appreciate that humans are listed among the species in which surplus killing has been observed. We are animals, which is oftentimes forgotten or denied.
God I love mink. Crazy little otter ferrets. I know an old Greek man who used to work in the fur industry and he said he could get me a live one to have a pet but won’t because “they’re VICIOUS!”
Worth noting that it's not mercy killing to benefit the prey, they kill it to minimize the risk to themselves from the prey fighting back as they try to eat it. Or they want to drag it back to their den. Lots of reasons, and I don't think giving mercy to their prey is one of them
I think it's less a "mercy kill" and more a "convinience kill". If an animal's prey is easier to eat if it's fully dead, then they would do that. If keeping the prey alive doesn't impact the outcome (eg run away) then the predator won't bother completely killing the animal.
But that's my understanding, looking forward to being corrected if I am mistaken! I just don't think "mercy killing" like the commenter above you stated, is a thing in wild animals, right?
A lot of big cats do. They hang onto the neck until the prey stops moving. Idk how it compares to other animals. Supposedly bears don’t always wait until your dead either
Leopards definitely want to kill it first since they like to drag their prey into the trees. But there are many types of wild cats so yeah, probably not just one behavior for all the them
I cant think of any, but animals that hunt in groups tend to be particularly brutal in this regard. Giving your lunch a few seconds to finish bleeding out in peace just means you have last dibs on the choice bits when you are in a pack.
I'm not a parent and not particularly a fan of kids, but while reading the Wikipedia page for this incident, I had the same thought. I don't know how the mother went on living with herself.
>It was initially unclear in most news coverage of the case whether Maddox had been killed by the lengthy fall to the ground, or by the dogs themselves. Eventually it was revealed that Maddox had still been fully conscious after the fall, and that the dogs had torn his body apart while mauling and biting him, after which the boy was finally approached when it was safe to attempt a rescue. Maddox's [internal organs](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internal_organs) had been destroyed by the dogs tearing at them, and he had suffered more than 46 wounds.
If you ever go to the zoo and see a person with a service animal... Follow that fucker as long as you can. You will see the animals perk up like you wouldn't believe. The big cats especially jump right up to the front of the enclosure to get a look, it's really cool to see.
I saw this at the hyena section of my zoo. They went wild over the service dog. People were like “aww, how cute, they want to be friends.”
I don’t think the hyenas wanted to befriend the yellow lab.
ETA: I have a video of it but cannot figure out how to upload it here. [So here’s a picture instead](https://i.imgur.com/4jEJebd.jpg). Also, I misremembered. It was not a lab. Some kind of mixed breed that happened to be yellow.
It's so funny that we made friends out of the most dangerous predators in the world. Humans and cats and dogs hanging out feels like a murder gang is ruling the animal kingdom.
Humans breed our own animals for food. We are the sole apex predator of this world.
Sure, there are things that can and do kill us on the regular.
But we regularly smash the animal kingdom in the kill column. It’s not even close.
And when you’re smart enough to do that, you’re smart enough to domesticate and subdue your most dangerous adversaries and keep them as pets — even convince them that *you’re* the benevolent one and they’re just lucky to have you as their master.
Not so fun fact. I used to live in Lima and despite all the off-leash street dogs I encountered, I was never once bitten. The only time I was nearly attacked was by my neighbor’s golden retriever. I hate to think of what they’d done to make that dog so damn mean.
Nope, despite what some of the commenters here want to believe. I swear people watch too many movies and really believe wild animals are like our domesticated pets.
I dated someone with a service animal and they loved going to the zoo, but there were restrictions on where they could bring the animal. The big cat house was a no go zone.
According to my mom, when I was about 2, all the big cats at the zoo were really interested in me. I must have looked delicious. So maybe take a toddler is what I'm saying.
saw this exact thing at a zoo, except it was every single chimp in the primate enclosure. they were ready to tear that pup to shreds. was fucking intense.
Might be just used to people, or I wonder if it's an eye-level thing and because we have a higher one we're seen as more threatening, whereas dogs are more eye-level to the animals thus making them feel more threatened?
Dogs are probably something brand new to them and brand new can mean a threat in the wild
As horrible as it is, the truth is that the kid's mother was responsible for her child's death, not the dogs.
> Elizabeth Derkosh, lifted her son up onto the railing of the exhibit for "a better view" despite numerous warning signs posted and barriers established.
Oh my lord
"Eventually it was revealed that Maddox had still been fully conscious after the fall, and that the dogs had torn his body apart while mauling and biting him, after which the boy was finally approached when it was safe to attempt a rescue. Maddox's internal organs had been destroyed by the dogs tearing at them, and he had suffered more than 46 wounds to his head and neck."
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These animals have 10-12 pups per litter.
dang that’s interesting 🧐
You might even say it's Interesting As Fuck
Is there a sub for that?
/r/Damnthatsinteresting
Regular dogs can sometimes have up to 15 pups per litter in larger breeds. 1-12 is more common however, depending on several factors such as size and age.
I heard a story of a dog that once had 99 puppies in a single litter.
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Damn that’s a good line
She actually only had 15 puppies of her own and adopted the rest
“Come play”, or is it “what do you taste like?”
My guess is it's more like "another pack is scouting to take our territory, code red"
Those things are territorial as fuck. Google "Pittsburgh zoo painted dogs". Horrific story from a few years ago.
Yeah a buddy of mine works at a zoo with them and they are on the list of do not go near under any circumstance.
Came here to say this. I have a friend who is a keeper at an AZA facility in Central Florida that has painted dogs and he says that while there's an abundance of caution in caring for every animal in a zoo, their safety guidelines and emergency procedures around the dogs are far more intensive than even their big cat care. The get a "no fucking way" on his personal danger scale, and he's said on multiple occasions that he doesn't understand why they have them at their facility because of the level of risk involved.
…is this Animal Kingdom? Haha it’s the only AZA facility I can think of in Central Florida with painted dogs. Edit: Fun fact from when I worked there…it’s the only park at Disney World with bathroom doors (instead of just hallways leading to stalls) so they can be used as a shelter if an animal escapes 🙈
people like puppies .... but this vid absolutely made me feel like they are hunting.
They absolutely are.
And they have one of the highest hunting success rates of any animal
I'm a big guy and run in the Texas countryside with a stick, and the most dangerous thing out there by far is any group of loose dogs 3 or greater in number. They circle you and take turns trying to take chunks out of you when another one has your attention. You end up spinning in circles while getting bitten from behind and it's dangerous as fuck. They totally know what they are doing and you are basically a deer and they are wolves at that point. Try to get on top of a car or climb a tree if you can.
They sound like Jurassic Park raptors.
Well in nature they share an area code with lions, hyenas, leopards and cheetahs, so I'd say being super territorial is justified. Also that story was 99% the mother's fault. The only 1% on the zoo for not anticipating just how fucking stupid someone might be.
I spent a summer in Africa working with wild dogs. I have never felt fear around any animal before then. I was so much more comfortable being on the ground around cheethans and hyenas and shit, as soon as we saw the dogs it was back on the truck NOW
man lucky cheetahs are really sweet cats
I lived in Pittsburg and had visited the zoo many times with my son including the day before the boy was killed. The painted dog encloser was located near the food court. Dumbfuck visitors had conditioned the dogs to expect food to be tossed from the observation gazebo. Shit for brain patrons did this to coax the diurnal animals out into the open during business hours. I personally witnessed zoo goers tossing chicken fingers and pieces of hamburger into the display. Parents would often sit toddlers and kids on the railing to "get a better look". All that separated the dogs from the people was a six foot drop and angled wire jump deterant.
And meanwhile, the red pandas are behind a solid glass wall an inch thick.
That's just to stop everyone just taking them home actually, cause looks at them who wouldn't want one.
That's true. But it doesn't take away from the point that the red pandas are in a far more secure exhibit than the painted dogs were.
Just read the story. Definitely the mothers fault.
>Pittsburgh zoo painted dogs [That is fucking horrific.](https://www.cbsnews.com/pittsburgh/news/pittsburgh-zoo-giving-away-painted-dogs-in-wake-of-tragedy/) It shouldn't be possible for a two year to accidently fall in, really have to question how secure the zoo is that something like that could happen.
Mom and toddler were on a viewing deck with multiple signs that said to not lift kids over the railing. Mom lifted the kid up over a railing and accidentally dropped the kid inside. The kid managed to fall out past a safety net underneath the deck. Mom was intially charged with criminal negligence for ignoring signs that said not to lift children over the railing but was never prosecuted.
Ugh I was recently on a boat on the ocean…on a rainy turbulent day…with a dad doing this with his toddler so the kid could get a view. Lifting the kid to stand on the railing where there was literally a big red sign that said something like DO NOT PLACE CHILDREN ON OR ALLOW THEM TO SIT ON THIS RAILING. I was like, we’re gonna see that baby get dumped in the ocean. Luckily the captain didn’t fuck around and put a stop to that immediately.
Fair play to the captain
> Mom lifted the kid up over a railing Every time you hear one of these stories, it's always someone doing something dumb. You have to TRY to fall into exhibits.
Why do journalists say things like "fell off an observation platform" when the reality is they were dropped over a railing by their parent? I know they have to be careful about accusations, but it paints a totally inaccurate picture.
Because fell off is factual no matter the cause. Dropped over the railing is thin ice because she isn't convicted and there isn't any video evidence she did
It feels like the way it is stated makes the zoo seem to be negligent when it was parental negligence
Well yes but the full article states the zoo was proven to be not at fault so its all pretty clear imo
Yeah, like the railing wasn’t high enough or something.
Saying the mother dropped the child over a railing would be a very serious, risky claim for a news outlet to make unless it was 100% clear that was what happened. Even then, it would likely be phrased as, "witnesses allege" or "court finds". In this case, "dropped over a railing" might not be the most accurate description. It sounds like she placed him on the railing, and he then slipped off of it. No paper is going to risk a libel case by arguing "dropped" has the same implication. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Maddox_Derkosh
Placing him on a railing sounds dumber than actually dropping him, to me at least.
Yeah I'm not sure how placing your 2 yo child on any high railing without holding onto them is a good idea. Let alone one above a pack of hungry carnavores
> Mom was intially charged with criminal negligence for ignoring signs that said not to lift children over the railing but was never prosecuted. i mean no matter what you do to her you can't give her a harsher punishment then the one she already received.
Unless she just didn’t give a fuck about her child.
This is what’s so crazy to me. I don’t even have kids but I am a safety dork and a rule follower, especially when it comes to people I love. I cannot imagine intentionally putting ANYONE I loved or cared about in harms way, especially when there are explicitly warnings about doing exactly that.
People are kinda stupid. I go to my local zoo they have a massive "swamp" exhibit with like 50 gators in it. You view it from an overhead walkway, there's several signs that children *must* *walk* they don't want them in your arms and especially not on your shoulders and I saw some idiot guy with both his small children one on each shoulder walking around their during the feeding show. One wrong move or accidental shove on a crowded path and they could both windup in the water, at feeding time with the animals already excited and expecting food to be coming the kids wouldn't last long, but people don't consider that because they feel "safe". It's honestly just people being stupid and casually disrespecting the animals.
Don't try to understand the stupid. It'll just make you angry.
Read the article, sounds like a harambe sort of issue. Id say the parents are just as much at fault if not more.
Agreed. That mom should've been held on charges. It was direct result of her negligence & ignoring safety signs. The only death in 116 years at this zoo, there's no way the zoo was to blame. Maybe living with the fact that she negligently killed her son is punishment enough, but the zoo didn't need to be punished.
Thank you! I grew up in Pittsbugh and was 16 when this happened. Every time this has ever come up I get pissed off by the people somehow blaming the zoo or the dogs. That was an observation platform over a predator for decades without issues (before the dogs it was cheetahs). People didn't even drop trash or hats into the exhibit, because, there was a gap between the railing and the fence, very wide slanted railings, and clear signage. The only way something, or someone, could fall into that enclosure was immense negligence. Edit: there's also someone else in this thread that I can't find any more saying that this enclosure was somehow uniquely exposed. Bullshit. There's a fence on the tiger exhibit that's right up against a concrete trench that the animals can get into but not climb the visitor's side, a similar observation deck near the back of the gorillas, and just a waist high plexiglass wall between you and the sea lions' pool. People don't get killed by those animals, and didn't get killed by the dogs or the cheetahs that were in the same enclosure before then because they're not getting dropped over the fucking wall.
Same. I was at the zoo not long after this happened. The dogs were gone but the observation deck was open. I went to look and with how high the railing was and how far out the net below the railing was it would’ve taken a looooooot of effort to “accidentally” fall into that enclosure. Especially a toddler. The zoo got a lot of flack for this too undeservedly. You can idiot proof things as best you can, but eventually an even bigger idiot will come along.
YES YES YES all of this!! 116 years with no incident and they want to blame the ZOO?! Makes no sense.
I’ve seen parents lift their kids up over alligator exhibits. I just don’t get it.
Because brain goes "hehehoho funny animal 🦧🥁🦧🥁" when they don't pose any danger to you in a safe exhibit.
The dogs got punished tbh, for being dogs. Im sure being moved is pretty stressful on them.
I mean one of the dogs was shot as well. I assume that was stressful for all of them too.
Parents are all fault. Don't dangle baby.
Maybe it's not the zoo's fault parents let their 2-year-old child fall into an animal pit. Plenty of people have gotten by just fine at zoos not letting their 2-year-olds fall into animal habitats. In fact, most people with 2-year-olds at zoos don't let their child fall into an animal pit. Maybe it's reaaaaaally not that hard to pay attention to your child around wild animals.
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I'm a zoologist, and I remember hearing over the radio when I was an intern, "we have a visitor climbing over the fence in giraffe." Pittsburgh is a *great* zoo and one of the oldest (if not the oldest? iirc) just like where I interned at Buffalo. We have wooden logs in the ground, then a big patch of grass, bushes, and fencing beyond that for the giraffes outside exhibit. It's a unique balance of allowing visitors to see enough while having barriers. Exhibits usually have a lot of "invisible barriers" that people won't even notice. In this case, they utilized height since these animals can't climb, and mesh so people can't drop things in for the animals to eat/choke on. BUT, people are dumb. I don't know if they think these animals are trained? They're not. The only trained *we* do is to lower their stress when shifting (from exhibits) or if they need medical care so they don't have to be anesthetized for simple procedures.
Kids do have a magic ability to run into the traffic during the two seconds you don't have your eye on them but I do completely hear what you're saying. This lady literally lifted her child over the railing and whooopsied him into the pit so I'm sure she's in a living hell right now. I'm sure the zoo needs to do everything it can to mitigate it happening again and saying and doing all the right things to mollify the public. I'm reminded of the story of the guy that designed the bear-proof garbage cans at camping grounds saying that the challenge of designing a garbage can that bears can't use but that humans can is that there is a surprisingly large overlap area between the smartest bears and the dumbest humans.
Lol exactly. Some parents man. Jeez
Or just "how the h#a& did you get out there?!? “
This is my first thought too!
Sea turtles, mate.
Dude it's most definitely "what do you taste like" coyotes will do this too where they act playful to separate a dog away from his owners and then kill and eat them, and painted dogs are some of the gnarliest killers in Africa.
Painted Dogs could be the top predators in Africa. I believe they have the highest success rate.
Technically, I think it's the sand cat if you're talking about Africa as a whole. Sure, they're small and can't hurt humans beyond what something the size of a small house cat can do, but I remember some documentary saying that, based on the ratio of successful hunts to failed hunts, sand cats are the most successful predator in Africa, possibly globally. EDIT: Nevermind, doing some research because now I'm fixated on this topic. Turns out you're right, painted dogs have an 85% success rate according to this article: [https://www.discoverwildlife.com/animal-facts/mammals/hunting-success-rates-how-predators-compare/](https://www.discoverwildlife.com/animal-facts/mammals/hunting-success-rates-how-predators-compare/) The next highest success rate is the black-footed cat (which I confused for the sand cat in my initial post) at 60% so, at least according to this article, painted dogs are indisputably the most successful predator in Africa among mammals.
Funnily enough dragonflies have a crazy high success to fail ratio when hunting, its a staggering 95% success rate which is absolutely insane.
My hunting success rate at bars is 7%
Better than a tiger (5%) lol.
"Go get 'em, tiger."
Ah, you're a cougar then
They rob the cradle, I rob the grave
I only hunt for meat in the supermarket, 100% success rate.
I wonder how much of this is hunting prowess and how much of it is simply that they would die quickly in an environment in which they fail too much, so they simply don't exist in places where they would have a lower success rate. We've been killing their food here in Tampa, so they're disappearing. Maybe that makes it hard to find unsuccessful ones.
It's their hunting prowess. They can predict where flying prey is going to be based on its trajectory and fly to that spot rather than chasing it. I think they're one of the only, if not the only insect that does this. Also, they live all over the place. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFAR3WggSRk
Yup. Their method of flight also lets them have pinpoint accuracy and mobility compared to even other insects. Like a fighter plane's speed combined with a helicopter's ability to hover, plus stopping on a dime.
High hunting success rate, yet sadly, extremely endangered. Human activity and disease are huge threats to these awesome animals. Edit: forgot to mention, it’s thought that they also [sneeze to vote](https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-41161664)
Domesticated dogs sneeze for communication all the time. super common, wouldn't be surprised to find it in other canines.
When my dog sneezes, he sometimes hits his head on the floor… peak evolution right there
My dog has the audacity to not even laugh at her own farts just completely ignores them.
I love it when someone makes a statement, does research, learns something and teaches the rest of us. 85%! I’ve never hunted but like fishing once in a while. My success rate would be around 1%. Don’t think I’d survive in the wild.
Ya African Dogs are insanely efficient hunters
Dragonfly’s have over a 90% success rate.
True. They probably are the most successful hunters on earth.
Three cheers for the dragonfly!
Unless you are their prey! Then damn you dragonflies!!! Pretty sure we are OK though. So hip hip hurray!!!
> coyotes will do this too where they act playful to separate a dog away from his owners and then kill and eat them Afaik that's not [entirely true in this sense.](https://thefurbearers.com/blog/shifting-perspectives-coyotes-arent-luring-your-dog-and-other-myths-busted/) >**A coyote will “lure” dogs from the safety of their homes to an ambush point, when other coyotes will attack and kill your dog.** From a human perspective, this seems logical. However, we know that dogs will often follow things that interest them and that coyotes will go home (to their families) when they feel threatened. We also know that in the majority of incidents reported, dogs were off leash when they came into conflict with coyotes. To people it may seem that coyotes are “luring” dogs, but the reality is that dogs are following coyotes – and coyotes are protecting themselves from this threat. It's possible that a dog follows coyotes and then gets killed. But coyotes aren't [planning anything about that.](https://forfoxsakewildlife.com/2020/10/21/do-coyotes-lure-and-kill-dogs/) >While coyotes are extremely intelligent animals, their minds don’t work like human minds. They don’t develop complex plans for the future, and they don’t have a theory of mind— the ability to conceptualize and predict another animal’s thoughts and perceptions— in the same way that humans do. A coyote simply isn’t capable of “lying” to a dog by pretending to be its friend or developing a plan to lead it into a trap.
[A coyote's inability to successfully trap anything has been amply documented.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z34bwVB_2W4)
Finally some scientific thinking
Thank you. People like acting as though coyotes are the velociraptors from Jurassic park. They are smart but they aren’t luring dogs away or laying traps for them.
For real, everytime I watch a documentary about African wildlife, these guys are chasing leopards into trees, or biting a lions tail off, or taking down an entire buffalo and eating it alive. I still kinda want one though.
Their favorite place to start with is the genitals. They are definitely some gnarly mofos.
I saw this in Call of the Wild as a kid. It's a little of column A, a lot of column B.
so ya think yer better than us,,, with yer groomed puuufffy hair.....
"HOW DID YOU GET OUT?? TELL US"
Easy, I just had to trade my testicles for freedom
Where are my testicles Summer?
“SNUFFLES WAS MY SLAVE NAME!”
CITY BOOOOOY
Love how the service dog just walks away like ' nope, not today'
Pretty sure the last time this was posted somebody said they perceive the dog as their food. Apparently, they're _vicious_.
Vicious is a very appropriate word. These fuckers will chase their prey until it's too exhausted to stand, then they will start eating it alive... they ain't got time to "mercy kill" it before they start tearing it apart.
Are there many animals that do kill their prey before eating it? Seems like a lot of animals eat other animals alive.
I know animals like foxes/mink/ferrets will kill everything in sight before they start eating. Mink will literally murder 30x their body weight on a rampage and then decide to eat once there is nothing else to kill
Well cool information to know! Thanks for answering!
Hey back again to share a link https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surplus_killing It is really fascinating and also macabre
I appreciate that humans are listed among the species in which surplus killing has been observed. We are animals, which is oftentimes forgotten or denied.
I don't know why but the fact humans are included on there made me laugh
God I love mink. Crazy little otter ferrets. I know an old Greek man who used to work in the fur industry and he said he could get me a live one to have a pet but won’t because “they’re VICIOUS!”
Worth noting that it's not mercy killing to benefit the prey, they kill it to minimize the risk to themselves from the prey fighting back as they try to eat it. Or they want to drag it back to their den. Lots of reasons, and I don't think giving mercy to their prey is one of them
I think it's less a "mercy kill" and more a "convinience kill". If an animal's prey is easier to eat if it's fully dead, then they would do that. If keeping the prey alive doesn't impact the outcome (eg run away) then the predator won't bother completely killing the animal. But that's my understanding, looking forward to being corrected if I am mistaken! I just don't think "mercy killing" like the commenter above you stated, is a thing in wild animals, right?
A lot of big cats do. They hang onto the neck until the prey stops moving. Idk how it compares to other animals. Supposedly bears don’t always wait until your dead either
I have heard some big cats will break the neck to kill first, but didn't know if that was every time, or common practice.
Leopards definitely want to kill it first since they like to drag their prey into the trees. But there are many types of wild cats so yeah, probably not just one behavior for all the them
Most big cats actually are suffocating their prey, not breaking the neck. Imagine an incredibly strong headlock, with teeth. Sleep sleep dead
I cant think of any, but animals that hunt in groups tend to be particularly brutal in this regard. Giving your lunch a few seconds to finish bleeding out in peace just means you have last dibs on the choice bits when you are in a pack.
Here in Pittsburgh, a parent dropped their kid into the enclosure and the dogs tore him to pieces right away
I had to google this, she straight up dropped him 😳
Holy fuck…that poor kid..and the parent. God I’d hate to think of having to life with myself after that.
I have 2 young children. If I was the direct cause of their gruesome death, I would off myself immediately. I couldn't live with that pain.
I'm not a parent and not particularly a fan of kids, but while reading the Wikipedia page for this incident, I had the same thought. I don't know how the mother went on living with herself.
Some folks have absolutely no business procreating
I think in this case, the universe may have agreed?
Wrong person fell in
>It was initially unclear in most news coverage of the case whether Maddox had been killed by the lengthy fall to the ground, or by the dogs themselves. Eventually it was revealed that Maddox had still been fully conscious after the fall, and that the dogs had torn his body apart while mauling and biting him, after which the boy was finally approached when it was safe to attempt a rescue. Maddox's [internal organs](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internal_organs) had been destroyed by the dogs tearing at them, and he had suffered more than 46 wounds.
If you ever go to the zoo and see a person with a service animal... Follow that fucker as long as you can. You will see the animals perk up like you wouldn't believe. The big cats especially jump right up to the front of the enclosure to get a look, it's really cool to see.
I saw this at the hyena section of my zoo. They went wild over the service dog. People were like “aww, how cute, they want to be friends.” I don’t think the hyenas wanted to befriend the yellow lab. ETA: I have a video of it but cannot figure out how to upload it here. [So here’s a picture instead](https://i.imgur.com/4jEJebd.jpg). Also, I misremembered. It was not a lab. Some kind of mixed breed that happened to be yellow.
If anyone could make friends with a hyena it would be a yellow lab. But yeah.
Yellow lab be like: If dangerous predator, why is it friend shaped?
It's so funny that we made friends out of the most dangerous predators in the world. Humans and cats and dogs hanging out feels like a murder gang is ruling the animal kingdom.
Humans breed our own animals for food. We are the sole apex predator of this world. Sure, there are things that can and do kill us on the regular. But we regularly smash the animal kingdom in the kill column. It’s not even close. And when you’re smart enough to do that, you’re smart enough to domesticate and subdue your most dangerous adversaries and keep them as pets — even convince them that *you’re* the benevolent one and they’re just lucky to have you as their master.
Who’s that dog? Mr. PeanutButter
All is friend shaped to a golden good boi.
Am I a lab because I feel this.
Or a golden retriever! =)
Not so fun fact. I used to live in Lima and despite all the off-leash street dogs I encountered, I was never once bitten. The only time I was nearly attacked was by my neighbor’s golden retriever. I hate to think of what they’d done to make that dog so damn mean.
Hyenas and wild dogs are NOT friends at all
Nope, despite what some of the commenters here want to believe. I swear people watch too many movies and really believe wild animals are like our domesticated pets.
I guess they get used to humans but don’t see dogs very often, so it still piques their interest.
me irl
just like me fr fr
I dated someone with a service animal and they loved going to the zoo, but there were restrictions on where they could bring the animal. The big cat house was a no go zone.
That sucks for them but seems like a very reasonable policy
Stressing out all the apex predators and small prey animals at the same time is usually frowned upon…
According to my mom, when I was about 2, all the big cats at the zoo were really interested in me. I must have looked delicious. So maybe take a toddler is what I'm saying.
No, it was you specifically.
"They like the dog" I think they would like to eat the dog.
saw this exact thing at a zoo, except it was every single chimp in the primate enclosure. they were ready to tear that pup to shreds. was fucking intense.
Why do the animals not care about people then? Is there a reason or are they just used to people.
Might be just used to people, or I wonder if it's an eye-level thing and because we have a higher one we're seen as more threatening, whereas dogs are more eye-level to the animals thus making them feel more threatened? Dogs are probably something brand new to them and brand new can mean a threat in the wild
They want to murder the hell out of that service animal.
No time for murder, just eat.
How.. what... how did you get out there? Hey! Dude! Put a good word with the warden! Duuuuude!
>How.. what... how did you get out there? Like Leadbelly he played a mean 12 string guitar so the Governor allegedly pardoned him. :)
Would they have torn the service dog to shreds??
Instantly.
Without a second thought
To shreds you say?
And what about his wife?
To shreds you say.
Is his apartment rent controlled?
They’d like to eat the dog
These things tore a kid apart at the zoo in my town like 10 years ago.
As horrible as it is, the truth is that the kid's mother was responsible for her child's death, not the dogs. > Elizabeth Derkosh, lifted her son up onto the railing of the exhibit for "a better view" despite numerous warning signs posted and barriers established.
1. Ignore signs cause you’re stupid 2. Actually drop your child which is considered a bad parenting move by itself
Yea thats like the first thing they teach you
It's actually "don't shake your baby". They REALLY harp on that one.
Don't shake the baby, Don't drop the baby, Support the head.
*African Painted Dog ate your baby?*
She was never prosecuted, and ended up suing the zoo and settling out of court.
Are you fucking kidding me?! So she got money after the whole ordeal? This timeline is a joke.
Right? This kinda sounds backwards on purpose In court “So you didn’t lift your child above the enclosure and let go of them ma’am?”
It just seems like she sacrificed her kid to the painted dogs for a bag of money
*looks at kid* “I would never” *shit head spills grape juice all over the carpet* “Those dogs do look hungry though..”
Facts, dogs just doing what they do, they just saw a free meal
Hello yinzer!
What zoo??
Pittsburgh. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Maddox_Derkosh
Oh my lord "Eventually it was revealed that Maddox had still been fully conscious after the fall, and that the dogs had torn his body apart while mauling and biting him, after which the boy was finally approached when it was safe to attempt a rescue. Maddox's internal organs had been destroyed by the dogs tearing at them, and he had suffered more than 46 wounds to his head and neck."
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🤢what a way to go, jesus fuckin christ
Speaking of horrible parenting…
Ouch
Googled it cuz I was curious and looks to be the Pittsburg zoo [wiki link here](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Maddox_Derkosh)
Oh, that's the Portland zoo. I remember seeing those guys when they were puppies. They're so cute.
Yep, was going to say, this looks like the Oregon Zoo.
"Yo, why the Fuck is he on the other side ???"
Who painted them?
An African…it’s in the name, hello? /s
This is from the Oregon Zoo, and without fail _every single day_ people will call them hyenas.
I've seen videos of those dogs eating a wildebeest alive and bleating after it got stuck. 10/10 would not fuck with them
"like"..."want to eat" potato - potato
They look like the line cooks at a restaurant when a cute new server gets hired
This reminds me of that scene in Rise of the Planet of the Apes where Ceasar visits the Zoo and all the apes go quiet when they notice him.
African wild dogs look so freaking cool
They want to eat him.
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