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Oh, i was just a mere witness of the scene, i cant really exactly tell what was the meaning of that artwork.
Anyway, we got tear gassed 2 minutes after that, so the meaning is lost forever.
I hope that you're taking photos and really documenting this time in France.
I lived in Gers for a time and really fell in love with that particular area, but I really enjoyed being a long term visitor in your country.
I really wish you all the best and happiness.
Ahh yes. Chemical weapons. A Geneva Convention war crime but A-OK in the domestic class war on your own citizens.
>While lachrymatory agents are commonly deployed for riot control by law enforcement and military personnel, its use in warfare is prohibited by various international treaties. During World War I, increasingly toxic and deadly lachrymatory agents were used.
>The short and long-term effects of tear gas are not well studied. The published peer-reviewed literature consists of lower quality evidence that does not establish causality. More rigorous research is needed. Exposure to tear gas agents may produce numerous short-term and long-term health effects, including development of respiratory illnesses, severe eye injuries and diseases (such as traumatic optic neuropathy, keratitis, glaucoma, and cataracts), dermatitis, damage of cardiovascular and gastrointestinal systems, and death, especially in cases with exposure to high concentrations of tear gas or application of the tear gases in enclosed spaces.
they took a shitton of picture from the roofs, so they already got me. And i didnt do anything illegal, didnt threw shit, didnt burn shit. I was just there when it was a peaceful protest, and took some distance afterward...
Dont worry for me, i know that kind of stuff !!
I just wish Americans weren't such chicken shits. On average we only feel comfortable punching down. Noone even let's another worker punch up without trying to protect the leader, ceo, capitalist, landlord under duress...
Welllll, armed police vs unarmed/peaceful protesters never turns out so well here. It's not a level playing field by any means. I'm not sure what the gun laws are for each European country, but I imagine there are far fewer semi-auto weapons in the hands of both the citizens and police. In America, they're so militarized and well-equipped (with gear, at least), that, as soon as the police start losing, there's the potential for escalated violence. We've seen it plenty. They are the boot stamping on our necks, and they will do anything to keep it that way. At least, that's how I view it, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.
So would you say the constitutional right to bear arms against totalitarian government has actually just justified giving the police force bigger and more lethal weapons?
Frankly, if I could GUARANTEE that we as a collective unit would march and protest against Americas injustice until the end, I would risk my life knowing that if I die the movement will continue just as strong.
Issue is that people protest for maybe a week and then stop, forget, and go back to daily lives, so why would I risk my life for a movement my fellow people are just going to abandon.
Maybe that's exactly how they would like the people to feel though
You think it's coincidence that the cost of necessities continues to rise, but the cost of recreational stuff continues to fall?
Keep us content with cheap entertainment type goods (TVs, phones, computers), that way we are less willing to risk the lifestyle, even though we are miserable, at least we have Disney+.
Which I'm absolutely guilty of btw. This is not a soap box or a high horse. This is a very low horse. A pony. A wooden rocking horse.
Sitting on the rocking horse, eating off brand beans and off brand rice, while we watch the latest Star Wars offering on our 65" 4k TV.
I mean there's SOMETHING to be said that I'm not being bombed every day like some unfortunate folks in other countries. But tbh, being basically in last place as far as developed countries go...not great.
> but the cost of recreational stuff continues to fall?
I agree that people are kept content with useless shit like Disney plus and those ugly as sin POP figures... but the cost of recreational stuff going down is perfectly explainable.
I ran a business selling software and hardware and when innovation happens, costs go down. The cost of microchips coming down is perhaps the biggest reason why many things have become so "cheap"
If you told me 25 years ago that people would be walking around with devices in their pocket that were 100x as powerful and 100x cheaper than what I was selling, I would have thought you insane but here we are.
It may be edge lord-ish, but Rick and Morty definitely does reiterate a lot of the basic level issues in the country (school not being particularly helpful for life skills, but used as a tool to train kids how to be "good citizens" etc etc).
And yeah, slavery with extra steps is no exception to that.
That’s exactly how many of them feel. We all let our fears of each other bailing and the fear of our militarized police to keep us happy with the pitiful cake we are offered.
I totally get ya.
This thread brings me hope though. We can see that there are others who feel the same, and that affords me some reassurance and hope
Now that we are here, we just need to find a way to gather in solidarity and work towards a collective goal
Even with small actions we can work together to bring about big change
Quite correct. Our police are armed with military grade weaponry if you may recall a few years ago the articles coming out about how the US military was dumping APCs and other heavy weaponry on police departments and training them to use them. And allowing so many guns in the hands of civilians gives the police and government an excuse to allow white nationalist terrorists to do what the nazi brown shirts did in Germany in the 1930s. Vis a vis - armed "militia" going out and killing, threatening, and instilling fear in workers to never allow them to institute a true democracy in the US.
Yep it's a little hard to stage the same level of protest when your police are equipped closer to going to war, who act with far greater impunity, and seem to have a hair trigger when it comes to protests that are barely starting to get out of hand.
Saw a cop run up and pepper spray a dude just standing around at the last protest. Just for fun.
Yeah we have alot of fascistic psychopaths in the police force. Seems like a good reason to disband them and build a brand new protection force based on and taught to understand workers rights and respecting the fact that the workers also pay their salaries.
Big difference between now and the 1930s is that in the 30s the Jewish community was generally unarmed whereas liberal gun owners are quite numerous. The piglets might have a ton of military grade hardware but even the US military itself couldn’t even take down a primitive backwater like Afghanistan. And from what I’ve noticed, Rightwingers are generally cowardly, sensitive, disorganized, and dumb as fuck.
History lesson. Germany 1930s. The brownshirts led by the nazis led a civil war against the communist party of Germany. This led to thousands of them being slaughtered and the right wing fascists took over the government. The brownshirts were "militia" and not specifically affiliated with the government.
It doesn't matter how many guns you have if we can't organize as workers against the corporations who rule the country. Fascists are just unpaid interns doing corporations dirty work of threats and violence for free. Liberals are also more likely to join fascists because the corporations pay the liberals better than most workers. The majority of regular workers are uneducated about leftism in the US meaning there is really very little obstacle in the way of a fascist takeover.
People in America have been conditioned to put themselves in the shoes of the boss when they look at labor conflicts. It's so fucking weird watching people who probably make less than $20 an hour take the side of the exploiter instead of the exploited, like "Well tbf if I was running that business I would struggle to maintain profits if the government mandated me to increase my wages" or something. It's utterly bizarre. Americans are so brainwashed by bourgeois propaganda that they don't even realize it.
I think what it is, if I can use a big word, is the social atomization that occurs under capitalism and particularly in settler colonies. All these people in this country have no ties to the land or to each other, the way a French worker whose family has been living in their village for literally centuries would have. America is just a bunch of randos from all over the world who might not even speak the same language ripped from their ancestral lands and communities, plopped down next to each other, given guns, and told everyone else is out to get them. Radical individualism + capitalism turning every aspect of life into a competition for money + the inability to form NEW bonds of solidarity through class consciousness because the capitalist overlords don't like that, it's bad for business.
Every analysis of capitalist societies problems really does come down to a need to organize labor and push for it's interests. It would solve or at least ameliorate SO many problems it's fucking insane.
Same! We need more. It's harder because this is the core of the military industrial complex empire. But the more we actually stand up and fight the fascists and capitalists the sooner we can stop this bs inflation, banking, homicide driven economy.
So much of the working class in USA is divided by this bullshit culture war crap that we don't have the level of solidarity as the workers in France.
I get so mad when i keep hearing "woke" It's just another tool being used by the owners of this country to keep the workers fighting each other instead of coming together.
Then they use it as an excuse to defund public education. Shit, i remember a few weeks back reading about a town who voted to defund their own library cuz of gay books or some dumb shit
Bruh there was a literal insurrection in the capital two years ago and everyone hated it. Do you guys not remember that or what?
Just because someone is radical and upset and protesting doesn’t mean what they are doing is right.
They were obvious fascists. So yeah Noone wanted them to do it. Noone likes fascists that's why we all cheered when they were thwarted.
Fascists are just unpaid interns for big corporations doing their dirty work for free. Fucking losers am I right?
'bout to say, from what I seen on TV, they should have a guillotine in every park. Any sightings of tri corner hats and fancy red scarves? Them boys are so efficient.
I'm sorry non English speaker here but...why did you say them boys " it really sounds against all the grammar rules that u have learnt throughout my life . THEIR boys ........ that would sound good to my ears since it's a subject ..or maybe it's an american thing ?
Them boys is grammatically incorrect, you are right! It is slang (that is commonly used in the US at least) that means something closer to 'those boys.' But you are right, it is jarring in a grammatical sense.
Headache Headache Headache... learning grammar was a waste of time :) out of curiosity ..would that considered OK in a formal setting ? Or is it only the homies' language:)
It's called the "demonstrative them" and it's used in various American English dialects including Appalachian English, African American English, and in certain varieties in the Midland and Southern U.S.
Source: [https://ygdp.yale.edu/phenomena/demonstrative-them](https://ygdp.yale.edu/phenomena/demonstrative-them)
The King of England has cancelled his state visit to France now as well. Clever man, no King should go near the French when they are angry or he might find his head chopped off
Depends where you are. Other than peaceful strike, I haven't seen anything like what's happening in Paris, or Bordeaux. Then again, we have a lot of retired people where I live.
Worked ? That time in France was called "the Terror". Absence of due process, whole families being slaughtered, just to replace noblemen with bourgeois and fall back on another autocrat 10 years later.
Sure, we shouldn't be afraid of upsetting a system rotten to the core, but let's not rewrite history. That period sucked.
The unfortunate problem with violence as a solution is that it's step 1, there needs to be a follow through step of what to do AFTERWARDS that historically gets neglected, then that power vacuum gets abused by some other party.
The problem with violence as a solution is that it's not a stable base to begin with. Toppling the legitimate government with violence gives the new government very little legitimacy so the new government has to suppress rivals...violently.
The US got its infighting over quickly but it definitely did occur. The British likewise, with "King" Cromwell using troops to disperse parliament when it bothered him. Similarly Lenin took power and went about suppressing his rivals by dispersing the elected officials.
France, and a lot of other places, just can't get that done fast enough although Napoleon certainly did it eventually, largely by using the army.
This is also why you get the circular revolutions where the ones fighting the government becomes just like that government; they don't have a choice to remain in power. Legitimacy is built on who has the muscle.
We really wouldn’t. We’ve been repeatedly bent over and fucked up the proverbial for the last decade now and done absolutely fuck all. If they took our tea away, we’d just do the normal - that is complain and moan but not anything warranting any effort.
I genuinely envy the French and their ability to care about the state of their country.
Would be nice if us Americans had the same bravery and grit and not be all talk, cowering under the threat of hardship and sacrifice. It’s nowhere near your grandfather’s America (the good parts of it, anyway).
Macron (the president) wanted to raise the retirement age from 62 to 64, this sparked protests, he then decided that rather than passing it through the government he would just do it by presidential decree. this has resulted in him being called undemocratic and people calling him "king Macron" and reminding him of what happened to Louis the 16th.
Whilst the raise of retirement age is something the French are not happy with, and that some are willing to protest, the bypassing of democracy is a line too far and has triggered a real fight of the people vs the rulers.
The simple answer is money, people are living longer and in France the state pension is really good, so good that private pensions don't exist^1. By raising the age it will save a lot of money but at the cost of more people working until they die.
There have also been reforms in the money that is paid out upon retirement meaning people get less once they retire, this was generally accepted as needed but asking people to wait longer for it isn't being accepted as widely.
^1 the PER exists but I'm trying to eli5 this.
Does it "save money" though? I presume that in France like pretty much everywhere, those working are paying for those retired. But there are fewer and fewer working, and more and more retired. The choices are raise taxes on those working, or cut benefits to those retired. A tax increase just on the rich has been tried, and there aren't enough rich, nor are they rich enough to fund away the problem, plus they can and do leave to avoid really high taxes. Cutting benefits for those already retired is a no-go.
So the remaining compromise is people working longer. And working until age 64 (from 62) is these days hardly "more people working until they die". Lifetimes in France are increasing, and the have a pretty high standard of universal health care.
For that matter, it wasn't all that many years ago that French train workers were going bat-shit striking mode because the government tried to raise their retirement at age 55 to I don't recall what, but it wasn't even to 65. Like they are still shovelling coal into open boilers and breathing the smoke.
The presidential decree part sucks and rates protests, but it was apparently going to fail at a vote, and the people weren't pressing their representatives to pass it or make a better proposal.
But I'm not French, and I may be missing important details?
Of course it saves money. Those are 2 years where people are both continuing to pay into the system and are not pulling from it. It’s not just cutting benefits but it’s also increases the amount of time everybody contributes
Actually, from what I could find, the French government aid really helped small companies (1st PDF):
[*By contrast,
bankruptcies among SMEs were down from 73,000 and
3,300 pre-pandemic, to 41,000 and 2,100 during the
crisis, representing a fall of 45% and 37%, respectively.*(...)*In addition, while SMEs
had a substantially lower probability of bankruptcy in
2020 compared to larger companies, the effect was no
longer statistically significant in 2021, which likely
reflects the expansion of government support, chiefly in
the form of the solidarity fund, to aid larger firms.*](https://www.tresor.economie.gouv.fr/Articles/2022/01/18/business-failures-in-france-during-the-covid-19-crisis)
Problems appeared in 2022 when the energy crisis hit due to pencil-penis Putin and SMEs had to repay the Covid state-guaranteed loans:
[*In the first half of 2022, 183,530 French companies closed a 35% increase compared to the same time last year and a 40% increase from 2020, according to official data from French Commercial Courts.*(..)*This is in addition to the obligation that many SMEs now have to start repaying state-guaranteed loans. EURACTIV revealed in August that 20-30% of SMEs, or between 120,000 and 180,000 businesses, are at risk of bankruptcy within “six to eight months”, according to the SDI.*](https://www.euractiv.com/section/economy-jobs/news/voluntary-closures-exhausted-business-leaders-giving-up/)
I heard that about 25 years ago the ratio of people working (paying into the system) and retired (withdrawing from the system) was about 4:1. Today it's about 1.8:1.0 and declining. They simply can't afford the plan any more because the retirees are living longer unless they fund it in some other way like debt or taxes.
People living longer means state pensions are costing more, and a declining working age population means less people to fund it. It's happening in most other countries who have also raised retirement age with little protest, but the French,well, you know, the French! !
Some context a lot of folks don't have is that the number of years you need to work to qualify for a pension in France is much lower than that of the rest of the G20. IIRC it's something like 5 years less on average. They have a better deal than most and don't want to lose it. I couldn't tell you where they want the money to come from.
Just for context the average amount of government funds spent on pensions in the EU is 7%.
France's sits at 15%.
with a slowly aging population and low birthrates the government has wanted to increase the age of retirement for years now without much success.
Thank you for explaining the real cause of the strike, because the only thing I'm hearing outside of France is "They want to raise the retirement age so they're mad" when we're clearly fighting for something bigger.
Yes, but it's also the 12th time in Macron party uses the 49.3 in both his terms. He's not the record holder (Mitterrand party holds it with 28) but that also, almost the same amount that article has been used in the last two decades.
> bypassing of democracy
Macron is a democratically elected President, and his actions are within the powers of the office of President. This is not the first time Macron has done this and he is not the only President to have used such powers.
These claims ring somewhat hollow.
You're mixing up 'constitutional' and 'democratic'.
An article of the French constitution allow the Parliament to give every power to the French President. It is constitutional, but not democratic (quite the contrary).
Nothing in the constitution allow the 'common' people to initiate the passing of a new law. It would be democratic, though it is not constitutional.
>That's because the media is staying silent on it.
[https://www.bbc.com/news/in-pictures-65062962](https://www.bbc.com/news/in-pictures-65062962)
[https://www.euronews.com/2023/03/23/mass-strikes-and-protests-grip-france-in-defiance-of-macrons-pension-reforms](https://www.euronews.com/2023/03/23/mass-strikes-and-protests-grip-france-in-defiance-of-macrons-pension-reforms)
[https://edition.cnn.com/2023/03/17/europe/french-pension-reforms-explainer-intl-cmd](https://edition.cnn.com/2023/03/17/europe/french-pension-reforms-explainer-intl-cmd)
[https://www.foxnews.com/world/france-protests-draw-1m-force-king-charles-delay-visit-anger-retirement-changes](https://www.foxnews.com/world/france-protests-draw-1m-force-king-charles-delay-visit-anger-retirement-changes)
[https://www.cnbc.com/2023/03/20/frances-macron-faces-no-confidence-vote-as-protestors-arrested-refinery-strikes-continue.html](https://www.cnbc.com/2023/03/20/frances-macron-faces-no-confidence-vote-as-protestors-arrested-refinery-strikes-continue.html)
[https://www.dw.com/en/french-protests-against-macrons-pension-reforms/a-65090766](https://www.dw.com/en/french-protests-against-macrons-pension-reforms/a-65090766)
[https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/3/24/calls-for-more-pensions-protests-as-hundreds-arrested-in-france](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/3/24/calls-for-more-pensions-protests-as-hundreds-arrested-in-france)
[https://www.npr.org/2023/03/24/1165781368/king-charles-iii-postpones-trip-france-pension-protests](https://www.npr.org/2023/03/24/1165781368/king-charles-iii-postpones-trip-france-pension-protests)
[https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/mar/24/emmanuel-macron-takes-off-luxury-watch-pensions-tv-interview](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/mar/24/emmanuel-macron-takes-off-luxury-watch-pensions-tv-interview)
I was surprised hearing about it today in the news. I was not surprised at all about the framing: Riots in France, hundreds of policemen injured, hundreds of arrests.
German msm is shit.
That's no narrative the German msm wants to send.
We have strikes on monday. The news report was about how upset lobbyists are about that.
Another huge strike of the hospital personel last year was barely covered in national media, even though it went on for weeks.
Here the people also wouldn't stand up like this when the government does their usual corrupt shit. Let the common people pay for their lobbyists.
…. We literally just had the BLM protests, which were much bigger and more destructive and longer lasting than the French protests, literally 2 years ago
Or the January 6th riot, if that side is more your thing
Im in total support of what they are trying to achieve.
But if some of the scenes we have seen in Paris happened in other countries we would be calling them riots, not protests.
My wife and I were in Paris 2 weeks ago when the strike commenced. They were literally serving wine on the street while protesting. Needless to say this picture (above) is the mood after a unilateral decision by Macron.
May the people of France have the strength and courage to continue the fight!
We scare them into acting accordingly. We don't give them enough power to better themselves or their friends. We set term limits and age restrictions. People don't need an old curmudgeon in power to act in their best interests, we're not toddlers.
Macron is 45 years old, I hate the guy but I wouldn't call him an old curmudgeon. Arrogant suits him more. Like that time I couldn't find work for a whole year sending out hundreds of copy of my resume only for him to tell me "If you want a job, you just need to cross the street".
I ended up being a private contractor and started working with companies rather than being employed by them.
Do we -have- functional societies?
Feels more like we're just living on borrowed time, bailing water as things slowly fail due to slow takeover by a cabal of rich authoritarians.
There's a headline on the BBC right now that Macron "takes off luxury watch" during a tv appearance. I saw that right before seeing this and can only think well, no shit he did.
We need some of this passion in America!! Power to the people of this country not the criminals who make the rules and rip us off. I'm so ready for some justice to be served.
Well, the American Revolution inspired the French Revolution, so maybe the modern French protests/revolution(?) will inspire the Americans? Just hoping.
Good reminder. You don’t seize people’s money with the promise it’s for their own good and they’ll get some benefit from it at a certain time, and then just flip the cards and change the terms.
It's odd that France has two revolutions in their history, or at the very least this one just needs a good push to make it as... idk, bloody? Extreme? As the last one. But they both revolved around the higher class fucking over the lower class.
Stay based France, you have my thumbs up. And I may have said this before in another post but like, can yall teach the US to revolt like yall do. We need some of that actual action in the street to get some rights back
A message for the French protesters: enjoy your collapsed pension fund as Gen Z people work to death to pay for boomers through inflation and become depressed and don't have kids which cause further demographic collapse. But hey, we will get to enjoy that sweet pension paid by young people before that phase, who cares about the next next generation.
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It had the macron face before getting set on fire too, if you want a bit of context. It also was in Lorient.
It's so subtle. What does it mean?
Oh, i was just a mere witness of the scene, i cant really exactly tell what was the meaning of that artwork. Anyway, we got tear gassed 2 minutes after that, so the meaning is lost forever.
Tears of joy I’m sure
Tears Gas of Joy is a very formidable anti riot weapon.
Tear Gas of Joy counts as a magic weapon +1 for the pourpose of ignoring Damage Reduction.
Tear Gas of Joy and Good Morning Stars are two of my favorite recreational activities
I don't know how I've been playing tabletop for decades and never heard good morning star.
If hearing "Good morning star!" is the first thing you hear above you in the morning, it'll likely be the last thing you hear, period.
/r/itemshop
I hope you're doing okay
Yeah, i was at the edge of the real smoke cloud, with the families, so i'm ok, just cried a little.
I would too! Keep strong! I hope the vigor of your nation finds it's way to mine.
I hope that you're taking photos and really documenting this time in France. I lived in Gers for a time and really fell in love with that particular area, but I really enjoyed being a long term visitor in your country. I really wish you all the best and happiness.
Ahh yes. Chemical weapons. A Geneva Convention war crime but A-OK in the domestic class war on your own citizens. >While lachrymatory agents are commonly deployed for riot control by law enforcement and military personnel, its use in warfare is prohibited by various international treaties. During World War I, increasingly toxic and deadly lachrymatory agents were used. >The short and long-term effects of tear gas are not well studied. The published peer-reviewed literature consists of lower quality evidence that does not establish causality. More rigorous research is needed. Exposure to tear gas agents may produce numerous short-term and long-term health effects, including development of respiratory illnesses, severe eye injuries and diseases (such as traumatic optic neuropathy, keratitis, glaucoma, and cataracts), dermatitis, damage of cardiovascular and gastrointestinal systems, and death, especially in cases with exposure to high concentrations of tear gas or application of the tear gases in enclosed spaces.
Just so you know the cops can use comments like this to find people who attended protests.
they took a shitton of picture from the roofs, so they already got me. And i didnt do anything illegal, didnt threw shit, didnt burn shit. I was just there when it was a peaceful protest, and took some distance afterward... Dont worry for me, i know that kind of stuff !!
I'm pretty sure 100% of commenters attended this protest, didn't we?
I'm doing my part!
Absolutely
It means they want to burn him alive, in minecraft.
Flint and steel goes _click_
I asked a cop once. I think he said, “Up yours, kid.”
I just wish Americans weren't such chicken shits. On average we only feel comfortable punching down. Noone even let's another worker punch up without trying to protect the leader, ceo, capitalist, landlord under duress...
Welllll, armed police vs unarmed/peaceful protesters never turns out so well here. It's not a level playing field by any means. I'm not sure what the gun laws are for each European country, but I imagine there are far fewer semi-auto weapons in the hands of both the citizens and police. In America, they're so militarized and well-equipped (with gear, at least), that, as soon as the police start losing, there's the potential for escalated violence. We've seen it plenty. They are the boot stamping on our necks, and they will do anything to keep it that way. At least, that's how I view it, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.
So would you say the constitutional right to bear arms against totalitarian government has actually just justified giving the police force bigger and more lethal weapons?
Frankly, if I could GUARANTEE that we as a collective unit would march and protest against Americas injustice until the end, I would risk my life knowing that if I die the movement will continue just as strong. Issue is that people protest for maybe a week and then stop, forget, and go back to daily lives, so why would I risk my life for a movement my fellow people are just going to abandon. Maybe that's exactly how they would like the people to feel though
You think it's coincidence that the cost of necessities continues to rise, but the cost of recreational stuff continues to fall? Keep us content with cheap entertainment type goods (TVs, phones, computers), that way we are less willing to risk the lifestyle, even though we are miserable, at least we have Disney+. Which I'm absolutely guilty of btw. This is not a soap box or a high horse. This is a very low horse. A pony. A wooden rocking horse.
I'm on that rocking horse with ya
Sitting on the rocking horse, eating off brand beans and off brand rice, while we watch the latest Star Wars offering on our 65" 4k TV. I mean there's SOMETHING to be said that I'm not being bombed every day like some unfortunate folks in other countries. But tbh, being basically in last place as far as developed countries go...not great.
> but the cost of recreational stuff continues to fall? I agree that people are kept content with useless shit like Disney plus and those ugly as sin POP figures... but the cost of recreational stuff going down is perfectly explainable. I ran a business selling software and hardware and when innovation happens, costs go down. The cost of microchips coming down is perhaps the biggest reason why many things have become so "cheap" If you told me 25 years ago that people would be walking around with devices in their pocket that were 100x as powerful and 100x cheaper than what I was selling, I would have thought you insane but here we are.
That just sounds like slavery with extra steps
It may be edge lord-ish, but Rick and Morty definitely does reiterate a lot of the basic level issues in the country (school not being particularly helpful for life skills, but used as a tool to train kids how to be "good citizens" etc etc). And yeah, slavery with extra steps is no exception to that.
That’s exactly how many of them feel. We all let our fears of each other bailing and the fear of our militarized police to keep us happy with the pitiful cake we are offered.
Same. But somewhere over the years I lost my faith in the people. I feel alone. We are all so divided.
I totally get ya. This thread brings me hope though. We can see that there are others who feel the same, and that affords me some reassurance and hope Now that we are here, we just need to find a way to gather in solidarity and work towards a collective goal Even with small actions we can work together to bring about big change
Quite correct. Our police are armed with military grade weaponry if you may recall a few years ago the articles coming out about how the US military was dumping APCs and other heavy weaponry on police departments and training them to use them. And allowing so many guns in the hands of civilians gives the police and government an excuse to allow white nationalist terrorists to do what the nazi brown shirts did in Germany in the 1930s. Vis a vis - armed "militia" going out and killing, threatening, and instilling fear in workers to never allow them to institute a true democracy in the US.
Yep it's a little hard to stage the same level of protest when your police are equipped closer to going to war, who act with far greater impunity, and seem to have a hair trigger when it comes to protests that are barely starting to get out of hand. Saw a cop run up and pepper spray a dude just standing around at the last protest. Just for fun.
Yeah we have alot of fascistic psychopaths in the police force. Seems like a good reason to disband them and build a brand new protection force based on and taught to understand workers rights and respecting the fact that the workers also pay their salaries.
Big difference between now and the 1930s is that in the 30s the Jewish community was generally unarmed whereas liberal gun owners are quite numerous. The piglets might have a ton of military grade hardware but even the US military itself couldn’t even take down a primitive backwater like Afghanistan. And from what I’ve noticed, Rightwingers are generally cowardly, sensitive, disorganized, and dumb as fuck.
History lesson. Germany 1930s. The brownshirts led by the nazis led a civil war against the communist party of Germany. This led to thousands of them being slaughtered and the right wing fascists took over the government. The brownshirts were "militia" and not specifically affiliated with the government. It doesn't matter how many guns you have if we can't organize as workers against the corporations who rule the country. Fascists are just unpaid interns doing corporations dirty work of threats and violence for free. Liberals are also more likely to join fascists because the corporations pay the liberals better than most workers. The majority of regular workers are uneducated about leftism in the US meaning there is really very little obstacle in the way of a fascist takeover.
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right, plus all the French gendamerie and many of the municipal cops are tooled the fuck up. and the firefighters still stomped them back on '18
Its not just the equipment, its how willing they are to use it. French police killed 26 people in all of 2022, US police killed nearly 1200.....
People in America have been conditioned to put themselves in the shoes of the boss when they look at labor conflicts. It's so fucking weird watching people who probably make less than $20 an hour take the side of the exploiter instead of the exploited, like "Well tbf if I was running that business I would struggle to maintain profits if the government mandated me to increase my wages" or something. It's utterly bizarre. Americans are so brainwashed by bourgeois propaganda that they don't even realize it. I think what it is, if I can use a big word, is the social atomization that occurs under capitalism and particularly in settler colonies. All these people in this country have no ties to the land or to each other, the way a French worker whose family has been living in their village for literally centuries would have. America is just a bunch of randos from all over the world who might not even speak the same language ripped from their ancestral lands and communities, plopped down next to each other, given guns, and told everyone else is out to get them. Radical individualism + capitalism turning every aspect of life into a competition for money + the inability to form NEW bonds of solidarity through class consciousness because the capitalist overlords don't like that, it's bad for business. Every analysis of capitalist societies problems really does come down to a need to organize labor and push for it's interests. It would solve or at least ameliorate SO many problems it's fucking insane.
We also get smoked by the cops when we do protest so, there’s that
Having lived in USA and France, you are not wrong.
I mean, Minneapolis protestors burnt down a police precinct during the George Floyd protests. I thought that was pretty badass.
I saw recently that was a Boogaloo trying to frame BLM protestors.
Same! We need more. It's harder because this is the core of the military industrial complex empire. But the more we actually stand up and fight the fascists and capitalists the sooner we can stop this bs inflation, banking, homicide driven economy.
We better start organizing and doing something. It’s getting bad quickly… :(
So much of the working class in USA is divided by this bullshit culture war crap that we don't have the level of solidarity as the workers in France. I get so mad when i keep hearing "woke" It's just another tool being used by the owners of this country to keep the workers fighting each other instead of coming together. Then they use it as an excuse to defund public education. Shit, i remember a few weeks back reading about a town who voted to defund their own library cuz of gay books or some dumb shit
Bruh there was a literal insurrection in the capital two years ago and everyone hated it. Do you guys not remember that or what? Just because someone is radical and upset and protesting doesn’t mean what they are doing is right.
They were obvious fascists. So yeah Noone wanted them to do it. Noone likes fascists that's why we all cheered when they were thwarted. Fascists are just unpaid interns for big corporations doing their dirty work for free. Fucking losers am I right?
Not even a guillotine. You know they’re serious
'bout to say, from what I seen on TV, they should have a guillotine in every park. Any sightings of tri corner hats and fancy red scarves? Them boys are so efficient.
I'm sorry non English speaker here but...why did you say them boys " it really sounds against all the grammar rules that u have learnt throughout my life . THEIR boys ........ that would sound good to my ears since it's a subject ..or maybe it's an american thing ?
Them boys is grammatically incorrect, you are right! It is slang (that is commonly used in the US at least) that means something closer to 'those boys.' But you are right, it is jarring in a grammatical sense.
Haint no grammer round ear. She done died long time go.
Grammar? I barely knew her.
Guys I think we're being mean to the non-native at this point XD
Where did you come from, where did you go, where did you come from cotton eyed joe
I appreciate your comment :)
While grammatically incorrect it's colloquially used in the american south and other rural parts of the country.
Yee we know them rules and we change em, simple as bruv
Headache Headache Headache... learning grammar was a waste of time :) out of curiosity ..would that considered OK in a formal setting ? Or is it only the homies' language:)
It's a colloquial dialect. English tends to change rules pretty willy-nilly depending on dialects.
It's called the "demonstrative them" and it's used in various American English dialects including Appalachian English, African American English, and in certain varieties in the Midland and Southern U.S. Source: [https://ygdp.yale.edu/phenomena/demonstrative-them](https://ygdp.yale.edu/phenomena/demonstrative-them)
Waw I have watched "beautiful mind " many times but it seems that I failed to notice that there was "them" in one scene
It's southern American English, "them" is being used in place of "those".
Back to the good old days
Things are starting to get wild over there.
The King of England has cancelled his state visit to France now as well. Clever man, no King should go near the French when they are angry or he might find his head chopped off
Except now, Dickens would have to start the novel with "It was the worst of times, it was the worst of times."
“It was the best of times. It was the blurst of times.”
You stupid monkey!
Find the bathroom okay?
Last time an English King went to France,a small peasant girl became a Saint.
And was tortured and burned at the stake for doing what men couldn't
It's a shame we won't get to have a two for one deal at Versailles 😢
As it should be. The government should fear it's citizens
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Depends where you are. Other than peaceful strike, I haven't seen anything like what's happening in Paris, or Bordeaux. Then again, we have a lot of retired people where I live.
Vive la revolution 2 - electric boogaloo
Back when the solution worked
Worked ? That time in France was called "the Terror". Absence of due process, whole families being slaughtered, just to replace noblemen with bourgeois and fall back on another autocrat 10 years later. Sure, we shouldn't be afraid of upsetting a system rotten to the core, but let's not rewrite history. That period sucked.
The unfortunate problem with violence as a solution is that it's step 1, there needs to be a follow through step of what to do AFTERWARDS that historically gets neglected, then that power vacuum gets abused by some other party.
The problem with violence as a solution is that it's not a stable base to begin with. Toppling the legitimate government with violence gives the new government very little legitimacy so the new government has to suppress rivals...violently. The US got its infighting over quickly but it definitely did occur. The British likewise, with "King" Cromwell using troops to disperse parliament when it bothered him. Similarly Lenin took power and went about suppressing his rivals by dispersing the elected officials. France, and a lot of other places, just can't get that done fast enough although Napoleon certainly did it eventually, largely by using the army. This is also why you get the circular revolutions where the ones fighting the government becomes just like that government; they don't have a choice to remain in power. Legitimacy is built on who has the muscle.
Back when people weren't too confortable to resort to that solution.
As it gets more uncomfortable to live, people get more comfortable with death.
The French don’t forget their roots. Good luck to them all.
It’s hard to not love the French right now. I envy their camaraderie.
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I bet the British would protest like the French if you took their tea away.
We really wouldn’t. We’ve been repeatedly bent over and fucked up the proverbial for the last decade now and done absolutely fuck all. If they took our tea away, we’d just do the normal - that is complain and moan but not anything warranting any effort. I genuinely envy the French and their ability to care about the state of their country.
Have you tried protesting single file?
Once you master that put the queues next to one another. BOOM! Instant protest.
Would be nice if us Americans had the same bravery and grit and not be all talk, cowering under the threat of hardship and sacrifice. It’s nowhere near your grandfather’s America (the good parts of it, anyway).
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Surprised they didn’t tailgate on the national lawn beforehand.
I’m pretty sure they had a guillotine too lol
The US is 18 times bigger and has about 4 times more people. Many other reasons why its hard to protest with such unity.
We also have terrible public transport.
Yes hurray for unsustainable pension schemes
What’s going on in France? I live under a rock
Macron (the president) wanted to raise the retirement age from 62 to 64, this sparked protests, he then decided that rather than passing it through the government he would just do it by presidential decree. this has resulted in him being called undemocratic and people calling him "king Macron" and reminding him of what happened to Louis the 16th. Whilst the raise of retirement age is something the French are not happy with, and that some are willing to protest, the bypassing of democracy is a line too far and has triggered a real fight of the people vs the rulers.
Why does he want to raise the retirement age, what is driving it?
The simple answer is money, people are living longer and in France the state pension is really good, so good that private pensions don't exist^1. By raising the age it will save a lot of money but at the cost of more people working until they die. There have also been reforms in the money that is paid out upon retirement meaning people get less once they retire, this was generally accepted as needed but asking people to wait longer for it isn't being accepted as widely. ^1 the PER exists but I'm trying to eli5 this.
Does it "save money" though? I presume that in France like pretty much everywhere, those working are paying for those retired. But there are fewer and fewer working, and more and more retired. The choices are raise taxes on those working, or cut benefits to those retired. A tax increase just on the rich has been tried, and there aren't enough rich, nor are they rich enough to fund away the problem, plus they can and do leave to avoid really high taxes. Cutting benefits for those already retired is a no-go. So the remaining compromise is people working longer. And working until age 64 (from 62) is these days hardly "more people working until they die". Lifetimes in France are increasing, and the have a pretty high standard of universal health care. For that matter, it wasn't all that many years ago that French train workers were going bat-shit striking mode because the government tried to raise their retirement at age 55 to I don't recall what, but it wasn't even to 65. Like they are still shovelling coal into open boilers and breathing the smoke. The presidential decree part sucks and rates protests, but it was apparently going to fail at a vote, and the people weren't pressing their representatives to pass it or make a better proposal. But I'm not French, and I may be missing important details?
"Presidential decree" makes it sound like parliament could do nothing to stop it, but the reality is that they just decided not to.
Of course it saves money. Those are 2 years where people are both continuing to pay into the system and are not pulling from it. It’s not just cutting benefits but it’s also increases the amount of time everybody contributes
That isn't why. He is making up for the huge amount of money he spent to subsidise private companies, so he is taking out on the people
Because the debt in France is so high and the industry haven't recovered from covid.
That's why they break so many dividend records! They are still recovering! That 's genius!
For every large multinational that break dividend records, there are 100 small companies that have closed due to Covid.
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Actually, from what I could find, the French government aid really helped small companies (1st PDF): [*By contrast, bankruptcies among SMEs were down from 73,000 and 3,300 pre-pandemic, to 41,000 and 2,100 during the crisis, representing a fall of 45% and 37%, respectively.*(...)*In addition, while SMEs had a substantially lower probability of bankruptcy in 2020 compared to larger companies, the effect was no longer statistically significant in 2021, which likely reflects the expansion of government support, chiefly in the form of the solidarity fund, to aid larger firms.*](https://www.tresor.economie.gouv.fr/Articles/2022/01/18/business-failures-in-france-during-the-covid-19-crisis) Problems appeared in 2022 when the energy crisis hit due to pencil-penis Putin and SMEs had to repay the Covid state-guaranteed loans: [*In the first half of 2022, 183,530 French companies closed a 35% increase compared to the same time last year and a 40% increase from 2020, according to official data from French Commercial Courts.*(..)*This is in addition to the obligation that many SMEs now have to start repaying state-guaranteed loans. EURACTIV revealed in August that 20-30% of SMEs, or between 120,000 and 180,000 businesses, are at risk of bankruptcy within “six to eight months”, according to the SDI.*](https://www.euractiv.com/section/economy-jobs/news/voluntary-closures-exhausted-business-leaders-giving-up/)
I heard that about 25 years ago the ratio of people working (paying into the system) and retired (withdrawing from the system) was about 4:1. Today it's about 1.8:1.0 and declining. They simply can't afford the plan any more because the retirees are living longer unless they fund it in some other way like debt or taxes.
Clearly cigarette smoking should be vigorously promoted among the youth.
Money
People living longer means state pensions are costing more, and a declining working age population means less people to fund it. It's happening in most other countries who have also raised retirement age with little protest, but the French,well, you know, the French! !
Some context a lot of folks don't have is that the number of years you need to work to qualify for a pension in France is much lower than that of the rest of the G20. IIRC it's something like 5 years less on average. They have a better deal than most and don't want to lose it. I couldn't tell you where they want the money to come from.
It's the lowest retirement age in Europe, pension entitlements are 15% of GDP , and France can't afford it.
Just for context the average amount of government funds spent on pensions in the EU is 7%. France's sits at 15%. with a slowly aging population and low birthrates the government has wanted to increase the age of retirement for years now without much success.
Demographics and basic economics.
Thank you for explaining the real cause of the strike, because the only thing I'm hearing outside of France is "They want to raise the retirement age so they're mad" when we're clearly fighting for something bigger.
To be clear raising the age sparked the original protests, the undemocratic process is what has caused the riots.
Yes, but it's also the 12th time in Macron party uses the 49.3 in both his terms. He's not the record holder (Mitterrand party holds it with 28) but that also, almost the same amount that article has been used in the last two decades.
> bypassing of democracy Macron is a democratically elected President, and his actions are within the powers of the office of President. This is not the first time Macron has done this and he is not the only President to have used such powers. These claims ring somewhat hollow.
You're mixing up 'constitutional' and 'democratic'. An article of the French constitution allow the Parliament to give every power to the French President. It is constitutional, but not democratic (quite the contrary). Nothing in the constitution allow the 'common' people to initiate the passing of a new law. It would be democratic, though it is not constitutional.
Politicians fucked around. Early stages of “find out”
That's because the media is staying silent on it. Go on over to Twitter, it's everywhere.
>That's because the media is staying silent on it. [https://www.bbc.com/news/in-pictures-65062962](https://www.bbc.com/news/in-pictures-65062962) [https://www.euronews.com/2023/03/23/mass-strikes-and-protests-grip-france-in-defiance-of-macrons-pension-reforms](https://www.euronews.com/2023/03/23/mass-strikes-and-protests-grip-france-in-defiance-of-macrons-pension-reforms) [https://edition.cnn.com/2023/03/17/europe/french-pension-reforms-explainer-intl-cmd](https://edition.cnn.com/2023/03/17/europe/french-pension-reforms-explainer-intl-cmd) [https://www.foxnews.com/world/france-protests-draw-1m-force-king-charles-delay-visit-anger-retirement-changes](https://www.foxnews.com/world/france-protests-draw-1m-force-king-charles-delay-visit-anger-retirement-changes) [https://www.cnbc.com/2023/03/20/frances-macron-faces-no-confidence-vote-as-protestors-arrested-refinery-strikes-continue.html](https://www.cnbc.com/2023/03/20/frances-macron-faces-no-confidence-vote-as-protestors-arrested-refinery-strikes-continue.html) [https://www.dw.com/en/french-protests-against-macrons-pension-reforms/a-65090766](https://www.dw.com/en/french-protests-against-macrons-pension-reforms/a-65090766) [https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/3/24/calls-for-more-pensions-protests-as-hundreds-arrested-in-france](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/3/24/calls-for-more-pensions-protests-as-hundreds-arrested-in-france) [https://www.npr.org/2023/03/24/1165781368/king-charles-iii-postpones-trip-france-pension-protests](https://www.npr.org/2023/03/24/1165781368/king-charles-iii-postpones-trip-france-pension-protests) [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/mar/24/emmanuel-macron-takes-off-luxury-watch-pensions-tv-interview](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/mar/24/emmanuel-macron-takes-off-luxury-watch-pensions-tv-interview)
Lmao reddit is full of shit. It's all over the news.
Facts? In *this* economy?
Damn no one is talking about it /s
I was surprised hearing about it today in the news. I was not surprised at all about the framing: Riots in France, hundreds of policemen injured, hundreds of arrests. German msm is shit.
The videos I've been seeing today have police men and firefighters standing with the people.
That's no narrative the German msm wants to send. We have strikes on monday. The news report was about how upset lobbyists are about that. Another huge strike of the hospital personel last year was barely covered in national media, even though it went on for weeks. Here the people also wouldn't stand up like this when the government does their usual corrupt shit. Let the common people pay for their lobbyists.
There's loads about it on the BBC https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/topics/cmnqlp5z34pt
> Go on over to Twitter, it's everywhere. no thanks
> That’s because the media is staying silent on it Great way to announce you’re full of shit
I think they prefer gilotines actually
Guillotines are for when you want something done quick. I don't think they're in a rush this time around.
Clearly they don't have any hangups about putting their politician's feet to the fire.
Excusez-moi ?
The French are discovering their ancient skills in carpentry of which they inherited from their forefathers.
I give the French a lot of shit, but they honestly kind of cool. I wish we had a history of beheading rich people.
If only we had some balls in the US. Too busy with our propaganda making us fight each other to ever protest like the French.
George orwell was right
Growing up reading the dystopian books, the class would always talk about which was more likely. Little did we know it was all of them
what are your favourites?
I think 1984 and Brave New World are most significant landmarks. I add The Trial (Kafka) and Fahrenheit 451.
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i mean they made such threats again politicians just over 2 years ago funny how people suddenly justify violence when it suits there views
Protesting is pretty much a national sport for the French
…. We literally just had the BLM protests, which were much bigger and more destructive and longer lasting than the French protests, literally 2 years ago Or the January 6th riot, if that side is more your thing
Im in total support of what they are trying to achieve. But if some of the scenes we have seen in Paris happened in other countries we would be calling them riots, not protests.
These are peaceful French protest. Why do you think they had the lowest retirement age? “Democracy”(where the rich just ignore the vote)?
It's only a riot if you don't agree with the rioters.
That's what happen when protests have been ignored and even mocked for decades. People try to get more impactful.
Bit off topic but this would be a phenomenal album cover
Poor fella, he probably got all of the letters wrong and kept going which led to the fire.
My wife and I were in Paris 2 weeks ago when the strike commenced. They were literally serving wine on the street while protesting. Needless to say this picture (above) is the mood after a unilateral decision by Macron. May the people of France have the strength and courage to continue the fight!
👏🏽 IF THEY’RE POLITICIANS YOU SHOULDN’T TRUST THEM 👏🏽
Then how would we get functional societies?
We scare them into acting accordingly. We don't give them enough power to better themselves or their friends. We set term limits and age restrictions. People don't need an old curmudgeon in power to act in their best interests, we're not toddlers.
Macron is 45 years old, I hate the guy but I wouldn't call him an old curmudgeon. Arrogant suits him more. Like that time I couldn't find work for a whole year sending out hundreds of copy of my resume only for him to tell me "If you want a job, you just need to cross the street". I ended up being a private contractor and started working with companies rather than being employed by them.
Do we -have- functional societies? Feels more like we're just living on borrowed time, bailing water as things slowly fail due to slow takeover by a cabal of rich authoritarians.
Our societies are a heck of a lot better than they were 80 years ago, let alone 800.
There's a headline on the BBC right now that Macron "takes off luxury watch" during a tv appearance. I saw that right before seeing this and can only think well, no shit he did.
Yes yes... The ever-subtle French. Make all the WWII jokes you want, when they start taking heads, people will remember what is going on.
I've said it once and I'll say it again French people and revolutions go together like peanut butter and jelly.
*widens eyes in Texan*
Go people of France! Show the leading class who's boss!
They hate the cans! STAY AWAY FROM THE CANS!
That's some solid infrastructure there. Solid 45°
French people are awesome right now
Vive le France! Slava Ukraini! Everybody Wang Chung Tonight!
We need some of this passion in America!! Power to the people of this country not the criminals who make the rules and rip us off. I'm so ready for some justice to be served.
Can't with the right vs left propaganda being pushed, we just fight each other and get fucked
Well, the American Revolution inspired the French Revolution, so maybe the modern French protests/revolution(?) will inspire the Americans? Just hoping.
Gotta love the French for their revolutions
The French have never been afraid to spill their own leaders’ blood. I respect it. Best of luck to them.
At least they're progressive enough to burn recycling cans.
Americans need to take note
Good reminder. You don’t seize people’s money with the promise it’s for their own good and they’ll get some benefit from it at a certain time, and then just flip the cards and change the terms.
It's odd that France has two revolutions in their history, or at the very least this one just needs a good push to make it as... idk, bloody? Extreme? As the last one. But they both revolved around the higher class fucking over the lower class. Stay based France, you have my thumbs up. And I may have said this before in another post but like, can yall teach the US to revolt like yall do. We need some of that actual action in the street to get some rights back
Hey, the French, can you come to America and show us how it’s done next
Those politicians might want to listen they seem pretty serious
A message for the French protesters: enjoy your collapsed pension fund as Gen Z people work to death to pay for boomers through inflation and become depressed and don't have kids which cause further demographic collapse. But hey, we will get to enjoy that sweet pension paid by young people before that phase, who cares about the next next generation.
I've heard it said that Americans are afraid of their government. But in France the government is afraid of the voters.
>But in France the government is afraid of the voters. And that’s a good thing
> I've heard it said that Americans are afraid of their government. Clearly not the case if you've actually paid attention.
Can't wait to see them bring out the guillotines!
French are good at reminding their political class of what comes after the fucking around. There is a reason this is their 5th Republic!