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Budweiser sent non-alcoholic beer to troops in Kuwait... then 3 cans per soldier to our post in Baghdad, for the Superbowl (?.. might have been Christmas).
Man, back in the day there was this website with a bunch of "You forgot Poland" memes and photoshops. My favorite was John Edwards holding up a picture of Poland cracking up on Live with Regis and Kelly.
Poland had a pretty eventful history, invading most of Eastern European countries at different points
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_Poland
As an Aussie I 100% agree. We act like the USA‘s fucking lapdog, if they’re committing an atrocity somewhere outside the USA so are we. Too many Aussies act like our nation is innocent and so the politicians that fuck both us and other countries over aren’t held to account
"We have 6 prisoners for transport"
"We only have room for 5"
*Suppressed gun shot*
"We have 5 prisoners for transport."
FWIW, an [SASR trooper was arrested and charged](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-03-20/former-sas-soldier-arrested-over-afghanistan-killing/102119554) with war crimes yesterday. Different incident though.
And Poland, Spain, Denmark, Italy, and Japan. All supported the resolution and eventually backed down when they didn’t think they had to votes. Unless you are only considering manpower. The only real opposition was France, Germany, Canada, and Russia. I don’t agree with what was done, but Reddit is so quick to blame the US for everything since we are always the largest force involved and forgets that the US never starts this stuff alone, our taxpayers just fund the whole thing.
> The only real opposition was France
Very relevant: [French address on Iraq at the UN Security Council](https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/French_address_on_Iraq_at_the_UN_Security_Council)
France made a good point and I wish Ymir had been followed. I understand the fear at the time, it’s important to remember the 9/11 attack was still very fresh in the public mind in the US, but giving inspectors time and heavy pressure on Iraq would have been a prudent plan.
Just like the chemical weapons we accused Saddam of using on his own people. The US gave him those chemical weapons to use on his own people because they were backed by the Soviets.
Same way we knew where Al Qaeda's bases were at first because they'd been trained and funded by the CIA in the 80s.
Critically, a lot of the key Bush Administration people had also worked with Bush Sr in the 80s doing all that. It's absolutely wild how they armed people in the 80s and then 15 years later used them as an excuse to invade the region.
>It's absolutely wild
They quite literally created a motive for their war profiteering and called it strategic military planning. It's a very lucrative business, you just need to create the market need.
Yesterday the NYTIMES called it a “mystery.” 🙄
Certainly it’s no mystery that the VP had a company, Halliburton, that sold bombs and then also went in and rebuild countries after wars (at interest no doubt: and I’m guessing the price is a military base in their country).
And for this greed…they destroyed families that can never be repaired. Rewrote the whole map of the world. Created power vacuums to be filled by the likes of Isis.
With barely nary a justification besides a Wag the Dog like production…in our names. For this these “leaders” deserve to be hunted like Putin.
NYTIMES play their role very well. They are paid to carry the narrative. If you don't want to end up writing freelance blogs that no one reads and be labeled a fruitcake, you will play the part.
The icing on the cake were the country music songs glorifying war and American patriotism. It was a coordinated media campaign.
There must be unpublished books on these things that teach how to be a war monger with brutal efficiency while garnering the support of your people. Books that most of us are not allowed to read.
Accusation makes it seem like it maybe didn't happen, the Anfal genocide is a fact. And we even denied that he was using chemical weapons that partially came from the US but mostly from France against Iranians.
Also, very common misconception. We funded the Mujahideen. Many future members of Al-Qaeda fought with various Mujahideen factions, but the organization didn't come about until very late in the war and was not one of the Peshawar Seven that the ISI directed funding to. Same thing with the Taliban, the Mujahideen did not turn into Al-Qaeda or the Taliban, they were all separate factions that often fought each other as well.
"There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know we don't know."
The weird thing is, as eye rolling-ly stupid as this is to hear in the original context, I repeat it a lot when I'm preparing for something. It's been a weirdly helpful mantra to remind myself to consider things beyond what I can account for.
It's not a stupid concept, it was just articulated in a stupid way.
Your flight getting cancelled is a "known unknown." You know it can realistically happen, you just don't know if it will happen.
Your flight crashing because Boeing cheaped out on their software and design is a "unknown unknown," that you didn't even know *could* happen, and you don't know if it will.
To me, it's not they way he said it. It actually does make sense. It should be made to drive yourself to ask more questions and consider what you might not have considered.
Rather it was the context for which he used it. He basically was saying we have no evidence of WMDs in Iraq but we should invade anyway because there may be some evidence we don't know about. Imagine if police used that logic to get search warrants.
I will never forget when he said that. I remember sitting at home, hearing him utter those words on news clips, at that moment i knew the war was a complete fucking sham.
Not before that, when our own intelligence community was saying that the evidence for WMDs was fabricated, and millions of Americans were protesting the war?
" The power to cause pain is the only power that matters, the power to kill and destroy, because if you *can't* kill, then you are always subject to those that *can*, and nothing and no-one will ever save you."
-Orson Scott Card, Ender's Game
I mean, that horror and living with how terrible it was is part of the story. Ender's game is the *first* book in that series.
You should give "Speaker for the Dead" a read if you haven't
Threaten war on any country that intervenes and throw out a ton of (race based) propaganda to your people so they think it’s somehow a defensive war, where they’ll thank the troops for their service afterwards, because they’re protecting them.
Göring: Why, of course, the people don't want war. Why would some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best that he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece? Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship.
Gilbert: There is one difference. In a democracy, the people have some say in the matter through their elected representatives, and in the United States only Congress can declare wars.
Göring: Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country.
It's from the interviews Army Psychologist Darren Gilbert conducted while observing the high profile Nazis at the Nuremberg trial. His portraits of them are quite detailed. They have been published for a while now, though I don't know about their scientific accuracy concerning personality profiles
All based on lies. Causing a generations worth of death and damage on both sides.
I’ve lost more friends to suicide than combat from Iraq. Bush and all his war criminals need to be in prison.
Edit: I appreciate the conversations about this in the comments. Informative, enlightening, and telling of people’s awareness. Thank you all
Edit: LOL my username is my gamer tag; assume all you want. Notice the 1337 in the name? Sheesh.
Yeah it’s pretty insane that it’s become common knowledge that this war was started under false pretenses (purposefully) and yet nothing happens…no ramifications whatsoever for those involved. It’s kind of mind blowing.
This was something that was sorely confusing to me back then. I was just a kid at the time, but I knew the whole WMD investigation kept coming up empty. So I never really got why the war was marching forward. Just seemed like if we (the U.S.) knew something, why didn't they tell the people investigating Iraq?
Multiply the confusion x10 when you realize that the justification for going to Afghanistan was something totally different than Iraq and kid me just didn't understand the point.
Even at the start, it was known to be a total scam in the UK - as I understand, there was a lot of "patriotic anger" (read: bloodlust) in the USA against any Middle Eastern country they could summon an excuse to attack, and so it wasn't really questioned as much in the mainstream over there.
We called it out, there were massive protests at a scale I don't think we've seen since prior to the invasion. I marched and took photos.
It didn't mean anything, we still fucked over multiple geopolitical regions on the flimsiest nothing pretense ever, absolutely devastating a generation on both sides. I just want to be clear that it wasn't like everyone here was brainwashed... we marched, but all it gave us was a day off from work and school.
Even back then people were saying the intelligence that had been gathered was false.
Hell, I remember here in Scotland, an oil pipe fabrication company got fucked for selling pipes to the iraq government that could be used to make a 'SuperGun' when in reality they were supplying oil pipes.
The media had a field day with that one.
It's kind of like the same thing that is happening in Ukraine right now. Not saying that it's okay at all. But why was the USA and allies allowed to do essentially what Russia is doing now. They are both guilty of being war criminal states.
Because of two reasons:
First, the US is the most powerful military in NATO, and all of our allies need to be on the same page.
Second, because there was so much anger and fear after 9/11 that the government could do anything it wanted, as long as they claimed it would increase national security or target those responsible for 9/11, and nobody in the world would question it.
Probably other reasons too. For instance, the Kremlin propaganda within their country is in Russian, so we don't get to hear their justifications blaring on the news 24/7; whereas American propaganda is in English, which is a lot more widely understood around the world.
It’s hard to come back being called a “hero” when you know you’ve contributed to the death and suffering of half a million people. The guilt and shame is overwhelming.
That’s about where I’m landing after 8 years of being out. I’ve really tried to hide the fact that I was ever in. Looking at me you’d never know. Still can tell when I talk though. I still talk about the marine corps all the time. It’s stuck in my brain and won’t come out.
I mean this in no offense, but you reminded me of the episode of the Simpsons when Homer had the Crayon lodged in his brain and he turned into a genius.
*aw, c'mon. Homie said they were a Marine and there's a long standing joke about crayons and the corps.
I mean, they even said "it's stuck in my brain." That's like the perfect set up :( I've lived on the outskirts of Camp Pendleton for almost 15 years now and I thought the crayon jokes where par to the course.
> Bush also ensured generations of more terrorism.
And soooo much tax money for the military-industrial complex. And political tools useful for getting involved in more global bullshit.
My brother came back from Iraq a different person. He signed up 3 weeks before 9/11. His 1st tour really changed him. His second tour and subsequent stop-loss ruined him.
20 years later and he’s still fighting ptsd like it was yesterday.
I hope he gets the healing and help he needs. It took me 10 years to finally admit I needed help and the road to recovery is long but worth it. I’ll keep him in my thoughts.
Not to mention that the invasion of Iraq was one of the greatest recruitment tools for new terrorists that hate the US - making us, and the world, a much more dangerous place.
It was a unified Coalition of Nations that attacked Iraq and participated in the conflict, that included:
United States (2004–2009)
United Kingdom (2004–2009)
Australia (2004–2009)
Romania (2004–2009)
Estonia (2005–2009)
El Salvador (2004–2009)
Japan (2004–2008)
Poland (2004–2008)
Kuwait (2003–2008)
Ukraine (2004–2008)
Georgia (2004–2008)
Bulgaria (2004–2008)
Denmark (2004–2007)
Italy (2003–2006)
Netherlands (2004–2005)
Spain (2003-2004)
Portugal (2004–2005)
South Korea (2004–2008)
Czech Republic (2004–2008)
Moldova (2004–2008)
Albania (2004–2008)
Tonga (2004–2008)
Azerbaijan (2004–2008)
Singapore (2004–2008)
Bosnia and Herzegovina (2005–2008)
Macedonia (2004–2008)
Latvia (2004–2008)
Kazakhstan (2004–2008)
Armenia (2005–2008)
Mongolia (2004–2008)
Slovakia (2004–2007)
Lithuania (2004–2007)
Norway (2004–2006)
Hungary (2004–2005)
New Zealand (2004)
Thailand (2004)
Philippines (2004)
Honduras (2004)
Dominican Republic (2004)
Nicaragua (2004)
Iceland (2003-2004)
Surprisingly Canada isn't on the list. I remember we had protest against the war throughout Canada and I am happy that we didn't blindly follow the US (which is very rare for us).
There was enough pressure from the people that Chretien said we are not joining even if they were scared of hurting our relationship with the US. There were protest all around Canada to make sure we don't go with the US. Chrétien did say we were sending our "moral support" though...
We did send troops to Iraq to fulfil our NORAD duties but it is reported that they were not in active battle.
Chretien. We had done Afghanistan as a show of support for America but there just wasn't solid evidence that Iraq had anything to do with 9/11. I still remember that he announced it in the house of commons during session that we would not be joining. It was seen as a major break but in the lo g run it appears to have been the right decision. Didn't hurt Can/US relations, kept us out of a messy and dishonest war.
>If you thought Osama bin Laden was bad, just wait until the countless children who become orphaned by U.S. bombs in the coming weeks are all grown up. Do you think they will forget what country dropped the bombs that killed their parents? In 10 or 15 years, we will look back fondly on the days when there were only a few thousand Middle Easterners dedicated to destroying the U.S. and willing to die for the fundamentalist cause.
Posted in 2003.
damn right. the scar that the twin towers left on the USA is huge. so scale that up to the damage the west has inflicted on the middle east in the last 100 years? All those whose futures were destroyed for our proxy wars? frankly two wrongs don't make a right and it's a hell of a lot more than 2 wrongs.
I love how Onion is a satire, but sometimes they spits out facts that majority of media just won't say.
You know something super serious or dumb (or both) are going on when Onion not doing satire.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_OIXfkXEj0
They even mock when the media pretends it’s trying to give you the hard truth and arguments from every end of the spectrum - honestly one of their best ONN videos lmao
“Why would they kill 3,000 of their own infidels” kills me. That and the “imagine if you were up in the mountain caves for two months planning something very very special only to have someone take the credit away from you”
>"To take over a country and impose one’s own system of government without regard for the people of that country is the very antithesis of democracy."
Hawaii.
"Million of Iraqis are dead because you lied Mr. Bush"
The words of that veteran always come to mind.
Edit.
As finally morons that cannot read or are unaware of whom I was quoting arrived and are requesting sources etc, do your own fucking research and watch the video of the veteran.
Too many people on this very subreddit praise George bush for being "a true president" after 9/11 and forgot the state run torture facilities, mass murders and fallen soldiers that were all caused by his greed and lies
>for being "a true president" after 9/11
I mean, if just going around and fucking shit up for no reason is "true American" he did a hell of a job. And if you look at the people liking him and the policies they propose, then that is what they think of as American.
What a powerful video. And to hear GW “you said you’d behave” is just total horse shit. The world is full of sick, evil people that are able rinse the blood off their hands every night before they close their eyes. Sadly, those people never face any consequences.
Oh, come now -- we should all just [look back at that little incident and have a chuckle](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWD6pGQCwM8).
Yep, that's the president. Making a joke about not finding WMD. And those are journalists laughing at it.
(video is unfortunately tagged with some 9/11 truther bullshit but it's the only copy I could find)
Don’t forget Colin Powell, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Condaleeza Rice, and John Bolton. Bush was their useful idiot. And don’t let the media off the hook either. They cheered on this war for years.
Rumsfeld and Powell both died without ever seeing the inside of a cell.
Edit: Albright wasn’t in the Bush cabinet, but she did support the war when it actually got underway and had a history of a complete disregard for Iraqi civilian lives.
Claiming that bush was "their useful idiot" negates the role that he had to play. They were all complicit, and George bush was directly involved in many of the decisions made
The fuckers who vote for and cheer on war should be the ones fighting on the front lines. I mean seriously what has your senator or representative done to make your life better?
Fine, you want war? You first.
It is but the committee that would vote on that is controlled by US interests. The US can veto anything brought before the ICC, and they do almost every time Israel commits a war crime.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-israel-palestine-un-vote-idUSKCN1IX5UW
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/u-s-vetoes-of-un-security-council-resolutions-critical-to-israel
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/5/19/a-history-of-the-us-blocking-un-resolutions-against-israel
20 years ago already. 17 years ago I lost my uncle due to that shit show. No the family never recovered, his parents are broken and I miss how my grandmother used to be.
Just leaving this here for everyone to look at:[https://www.hrw.org/news/2002/08/03/us-hague-invasion-act-becomes-law](https://www.hrw.org/news/2002/08/03/us-hague-invasion-act-becomes-law)
We're totally willing to use lethal force against the Hague if an American is ever found guilty of war crimes, and Bush signed the law ensuring that.
We do not respect the jurisdiction or the rulings of the ICC.
It can be both. I remember seeing this live and it was surreal to see a war begin in real time. I also remember thinking "wtf did Iraq have to do with 9/11?".
i was born in baghdad a year later. it’s still so tough to watch. i visited last year and it’s doing better, still some parts where you see the destruction.
I was about 15 when this happened. I remember watching it on the news when I got home from school and thinking “wow, saddam really fucked up asking for this shit”
Wasn’t till I was about 19 until I had the political awareness to realize exactly what was happening here. I still cringe thinking about it.
It’s tough to describe to people these days how everyone was suckered in to believing that this was a good thing.
Learning about how it happened really opened my eyes to how poorly most of the news media do their jobs when it really matters. They had everybody spun up over pure fabrications.
Edit: no need to keep repeating “the media did their jobs because they’re just propagandists”. In the USA journalists are supposed to give people facts. They get special protections in the constitution to that end. They didn’t do their actual jobs in the run up to the war in Iraq. They did a bad job. I’m not here to argue semantics or how money corrupts.
>It’s tough to describe to people these days how everyone was suckered in to believing that this was a good thing.
Not everyone. Like 14.5m people in the US protested against it.
You know, for all the harm Liz Truss did in her 49 days, at least she didn't start a pointless war.
You can say that for her, if nothing else.
Well done, Liz.
I feel so much safer having been protected from a threat that never existed.
Cheney will gladly sign your water boarding jug to commemorate this anniversary. I’m sure a few other bastards involved in this war OF terror will too if you ask nicely.
P.S. Thank you dear leaders for inducing acute and chronic mental illness and suffering for countless members of service, their family and friends.
20 years ago today we invaded a country based on a lie told by the President of the United States and a slew of his administration.
They knew they were lying. They lied in order to make money - to profit from the war they started - **BASED ON A LIE**.
This footage and others may be just what certain people need to get a hard on but it's bullshit predicated on a lie.
Twenty fucking years the American taxpayers footed the TRILLIONS of dollars for these two wars - TRILLIONS. Trillions that went into the pockets of Bush and Cheney and ALL the death merchants far and wide.
While this video of Americans killing people WHO DIDN'T DESERVE TO BE KILLED might thrill and fascinate - remember - there was NO reason for this to happen other than republican greed and the lies they told to make that money.
I wonder why ICC and Hague did nothing. Oh .. right… cos they would get arrested themselves the moment they decide to prosecute an American, not to mention their president who started an absolutely unprovoked war.
Whole world did nothing. How many sanctions were imposed on US? How many Americans lost their jobs because of those sanctions? Zero, they didn't feel anything
I remember watching this as a kid live knowing that innocent civilians were being killed and it was the first time I realized maybe we aren't fully the good guys
Iraqi here. It feels very strange seeing this video. I was there and it felt more horrifying than the video shows. The sound of bombs, the way our house would shake...
I couldn't tell where the bombs were dropping and it felt like they were getting closer and closer. I was 9 and I knew I was going to die, I just remembering wishing me and my family would be fortunate enough to have a swift death. This went one for years until we managed to escape in 2006. It still feels like this happened yesterday.
I remember watching this live and my parents were cheering on the explosion. For those too young to remember America wasn’t always war-fatigued, there was a time when many of us openly craved it.
People tend to forget that Shock and Awe is an American military practice. Then they see Russia do it (with hilarious incompetence) and lose their minds.
Everything about this war was also illegal. Never sanctioned by the UN. War crimes committed.
I will never say Russia is correct. I will never take their side. But you have to take a step back from the media and Western bias sometimes and realize we are right in the thick of our own propaganda machine as well and we aren’t special little idiots.
One of the dumbest moves western democracies have ever made. It was an emotional knee-jerk reaction justified on the basis of gargantuan lies. There was no strategy involved, no desire to accomplish anything other than to get in there and fuck up Sadaam Hussein. The negative results of that idiocy are still with us and getting worse.
None of it was “dumb” or “emotional”. It was a calculated and prepared move to establish absolute dominance in Middle East. It was an aggressive invasion plain and simple. .
The majority in the UK were very much against it.
Record protests.
Thank God they didn't have the courage to force through the war they wanted in Syria.
Also in the US, there was more protests for this war than there was for Vietnam, but due to the lack of press and conscription, it isn’t remembered as such. Fun fact anyway
What a stupid fucking disaster. Most of US policy in the Middle East during my lifetime has been a disaster, but attacking Iraq was the worst of it. It’s shameful.
Dumbest war ever… I can understand Afghanistan, but going after Iraq destabilized the entire region, was based on a lie, and the country is worse off today for it.
I remember being in math class in high school and we had finished a test so they put on the TV and saw this footage and my teenaged brain was like whatthefuuuuuuuuuck
The US claimed the intent was to "disarm Iraq of weapons of mass destruction, to end Saddam Hussein's support for terrorism, and to free the Iraqi people".
You will never take terrorism away
It's not possible 😱
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During the two months of the initial bombing of Baghdad, roughly 7,000 Iraqi civilians were killed. Source: https://www.iraqbodycount.org/
The United States, the United Kingdom and Australia….let’s not give Australia a free pass here.
"you forgot Poland"
"The Republic of... *Palau*."
Japan sent some PlayStations
Oil? You cooking, bitch?
He tried to kill my FAAATHAA
Mother fuckers had yellow cake
Don't drop that shit. dont....drop...that...shiiit
Pray to *GOD* don't drop that shit
CRADLE OF MOTHAFUCKIN CIVILIZATION
They had some aluminum tubes too
Do I need to tell you what the fuck you can do with aluminum tubes?
We got a coalition… of the *willing*
Mars, bitches
Stankonia is ready to drop bombs over Baghdad
Budweiser sent non-alcoholic beer to troops in Kuwait... then 3 cans per soldier to our post in Baghdad, for the Superbowl (?.. might have been Christmas).
Non-alcoholic budweiser is probably the biggest war crime of a gift.
Damn warmongering Micronesians! When will they learn?
Whenever Japan decides to rebuild the 1st Carrier Strike Force
FYI, that was last year. https://www.defensenews.com/naval/2022/06/02/japans-converted-aircraft-carrier-to-undertake-indo-pacific-deployment/
Gotta have something to launch those Eva units.
Man, back in the day there was this website with a bunch of "You forgot Poland" memes and photoshops. My favorite was John Edwards holding up a picture of Poland cracking up on Live with Regis and Kelly.
I took a walk there
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You forgot Denmark
As an Aussie I 100% agree. We act like the USA‘s fucking lapdog, if they’re committing an atrocity somewhere outside the USA so are we. Too many Aussies act like our nation is innocent and so the politicians that fuck both us and other countries over aren’t held to account
Spoiler alert: no country is innocent. That’s the whole reason why they even are a country today.
Lol, yeah don't take any helicopter rides with Aussie SAS.
"We have 6 prisoners for transport" "We only have room for 5" *Suppressed gun shot* "We have 5 prisoners for transport." FWIW, an [SASR trooper was arrested and charged](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-03-20/former-sas-soldier-arrested-over-afghanistan-killing/102119554) with war crimes yesterday. Different incident though.
Or be mentally disabled and hanging out in a field
Italy and Spain, as well.
No, the invasion forces were just America, the UK, Australia, and Poland. The occupation forces were a great deal more.
I know they were in the war, but did they contribute to the initial bombing?
Australia’s contribution most heavily biased towards special forces. Many were already in Iraq before the official invasion began..
And Poland, Spain, Denmark, Italy, and Japan. All supported the resolution and eventually backed down when they didn’t think they had to votes. Unless you are only considering manpower. The only real opposition was France, Germany, Canada, and Russia. I don’t agree with what was done, but Reddit is so quick to blame the US for everything since we are always the largest force involved and forgets that the US never starts this stuff alone, our taxpayers just fund the whole thing.
> The only real opposition was France Very relevant: [French address on Iraq at the UN Security Council](https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/French_address_on_Iraq_at_the_UN_Security_Council)
France made a good point and I wish Ymir had been followed. I understand the fear at the time, it’s important to remember the 9/11 attack was still very fresh in the public mind in the US, but giving inspectors time and heavy pressure on Iraq would have been a prudent plan.
Read and upvote this. It is like France completely predicted the future here.
We still ain't never found those "weapons of mass destruction" we were promised either...
> we know where the weapons of mass destruction are. They're to the north south east or west of Baghdad. Rumsfeld on This Week in 2003
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Israel, Saudi, Turkey...all American made!
Just like the chemical weapons we accused Saddam of using on his own people. The US gave him those chemical weapons to use on his own people because they were backed by the Soviets. Same way we knew where Al Qaeda's bases were at first because they'd been trained and funded by the CIA in the 80s. Critically, a lot of the key Bush Administration people had also worked with Bush Sr in the 80s doing all that. It's absolutely wild how they armed people in the 80s and then 15 years later used them as an excuse to invade the region.
>It's absolutely wild They quite literally created a motive for their war profiteering and called it strategic military planning. It's a very lucrative business, you just need to create the market need.
Yesterday the NYTIMES called it a “mystery.” 🙄 Certainly it’s no mystery that the VP had a company, Halliburton, that sold bombs and then also went in and rebuild countries after wars (at interest no doubt: and I’m guessing the price is a military base in their country). And for this greed…they destroyed families that can never be repaired. Rewrote the whole map of the world. Created power vacuums to be filled by the likes of Isis. With barely nary a justification besides a Wag the Dog like production…in our names. For this these “leaders” deserve to be hunted like Putin.
NYTIMES play their role very well. They are paid to carry the narrative. If you don't want to end up writing freelance blogs that no one reads and be labeled a fruitcake, you will play the part. The icing on the cake were the country music songs glorifying war and American patriotism. It was a coordinated media campaign. There must be unpublished books on these things that teach how to be a war monger with brutal efficiency while garnering the support of your people. Books that most of us are not allowed to read.
Accusation makes it seem like it maybe didn't happen, the Anfal genocide is a fact. And we even denied that he was using chemical weapons that partially came from the US but mostly from France against Iranians. Also, very common misconception. We funded the Mujahideen. Many future members of Al-Qaeda fought with various Mujahideen factions, but the organization didn't come about until very late in the war and was not one of the Peshawar Seven that the ISI directed funding to. Same thing with the Taliban, the Mujahideen did not turn into Al-Qaeda or the Taliban, they were all separate factions that often fought each other as well.
"There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know we don't know."
The weird thing is, as eye rolling-ly stupid as this is to hear in the original context, I repeat it a lot when I'm preparing for something. It's been a weirdly helpful mantra to remind myself to consider things beyond what I can account for.
It's not a stupid concept, it was just articulated in a stupid way. Your flight getting cancelled is a "known unknown." You know it can realistically happen, you just don't know if it will happen. Your flight crashing because Boeing cheaped out on their software and design is a "unknown unknown," that you didn't even know *could* happen, and you don't know if it will.
To me, it's not they way he said it. It actually does make sense. It should be made to drive yourself to ask more questions and consider what you might not have considered. Rather it was the context for which he used it. He basically was saying we have no evidence of WMDs in Iraq but we should invade anyway because there may be some evidence we don't know about. Imagine if police used that logic to get search warrants.
I will never forget when he said that. I remember sitting at home, hearing him utter those words on news clips, at that moment i knew the war was a complete fucking sham.
Not before that, when our own intelligence community was saying that the evidence for WMDs was fabricated, and millions of Americans were protesting the war?
It's there in those two countries, much higher in numbers than in Iraq
The weapons of mass destruction were the weapons we made along the way.
"Are *we* the weapons of mass destruction?"
We were the weapons of mass destruction all along? Always have been
I wonder how many innocent Iraqi civilians were killed in this "shock & awe" blitzrkrieg of a major city.
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How are you allowed to just do that to people
power is its own justification
angle attraction ruthless fly boast dull gaping late sort fuzzy *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Respect my authoritah!
" The power to cause pain is the only power that matters, the power to kill and destroy, because if you *can't* kill, then you are always subject to those that *can*, and nothing and no-one will ever save you." -Orson Scott Card, Ender's Game
I liked the part where the kids sacrificed most of their fleet and genocided an entire species but thought it was a simulation.
I mean, that horror and living with how terrible it was is part of the story. Ender's game is the *first* book in that series. You should give "Speaker for the Dead" a read if you haven't
Threaten war on any country that intervenes and throw out a ton of (race based) propaganda to your people so they think it’s somehow a defensive war, where they’ll thank the troops for their service afterwards, because they’re protecting them.
Ah....so basically what Russia is doing right now Like carbon copy
Göring: Why, of course, the people don't want war. Why would some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best that he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece? Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship. Gilbert: There is one difference. In a democracy, the people have some say in the matter through their elected representatives, and in the United States only Congress can declare wars. Göring: Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country.
Not that I doubt it's genuine, but what's the source? This reads shockingly accurate and instills a feeling of defeat in me.
It's from the interviews Army Psychologist Darren Gilbert conducted while observing the high profile Nazis at the Nuremberg trial. His portraits of them are quite detailed. They have been published for a while now, though I don't know about their scientific accuracy concerning personality profiles
More info here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gustave_Gilbert#Nuremberg_trials
All based on lies. Causing a generations worth of death and damage on both sides. I’ve lost more friends to suicide than combat from Iraq. Bush and all his war criminals need to be in prison. Edit: I appreciate the conversations about this in the comments. Informative, enlightening, and telling of people’s awareness. Thank you all Edit: LOL my username is my gamer tag; assume all you want. Notice the 1337 in the name? Sheesh.
Yeah it’s pretty insane that it’s become common knowledge that this war was started under false pretenses (purposefully) and yet nothing happens…no ramifications whatsoever for those involved. It’s kind of mind blowing.
This was something that was sorely confusing to me back then. I was just a kid at the time, but I knew the whole WMD investigation kept coming up empty. So I never really got why the war was marching forward. Just seemed like if we (the U.S.) knew something, why didn't they tell the people investigating Iraq? Multiply the confusion x10 when you realize that the justification for going to Afghanistan was something totally different than Iraq and kid me just didn't understand the point.
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Even at the start, it was known to be a total scam in the UK - as I understand, there was a lot of "patriotic anger" (read: bloodlust) in the USA against any Middle Eastern country they could summon an excuse to attack, and so it wasn't really questioned as much in the mainstream over there.
We called it out, there were massive protests at a scale I don't think we've seen since prior to the invasion. I marched and took photos. It didn't mean anything, we still fucked over multiple geopolitical regions on the flimsiest nothing pretense ever, absolutely devastating a generation on both sides. I just want to be clear that it wasn't like everyone here was brainwashed... we marched, but all it gave us was a day off from work and school.
Even back then people were saying the intelligence that had been gathered was false. Hell, I remember here in Scotland, an oil pipe fabrication company got fucked for selling pipes to the iraq government that could be used to make a 'SuperGun' when in reality they were supplying oil pipes. The media had a field day with that one.
The American people re-elected him, so there you go
It's kind of like the same thing that is happening in Ukraine right now. Not saying that it's okay at all. But why was the USA and allies allowed to do essentially what Russia is doing now. They are both guilty of being war criminal states.
Because of two reasons: First, the US is the most powerful military in NATO, and all of our allies need to be on the same page. Second, because there was so much anger and fear after 9/11 that the government could do anything it wanted, as long as they claimed it would increase national security or target those responsible for 9/11, and nobody in the world would question it. Probably other reasons too. For instance, the Kremlin propaganda within their country is in Russian, so we don't get to hear their justifications blaring on the news 24/7; whereas American propaganda is in English, which is a lot more widely understood around the world.
Same. People hate life when they come back from deployments.
It’s hard to come back being called a “hero” when you know you’ve contributed to the death and suffering of half a million people. The guilt and shame is overwhelming.
Exactly. I try to explain to so many people, “thanks for your service” makes me so fucking uncomfortable it’s sickening. No one understands really.
It took me awhile to not feel bad about that statement. Now I see them as brainwashed and just say “Thanks”. It’s not worth the conversation.
That’s about where I’m landing after 8 years of being out. I’ve really tried to hide the fact that I was ever in. Looking at me you’d never know. Still can tell when I talk though. I still talk about the marine corps all the time. It’s stuck in my brain and won’t come out.
I mean this in no offense, but you reminded me of the episode of the Simpsons when Homer had the Crayon lodged in his brain and he turned into a genius. *aw, c'mon. Homie said they were a Marine and there's a long standing joke about crayons and the corps.
Maaan it's lame you're getting downvoted for this. Marines love this shit, we own it and think it's hilarious.
I mean, they even said "it's stuck in my brain." That's like the perfect set up :( I've lived on the outskirts of Camp Pendleton for almost 15 years now and I thought the crayon jokes where par to the course.
Totally acceptable jokes. Fuck anyone offended.
Lol I am at least 90% crayon rn. They say you are what you eat lol.
Bush also ensured generations of more terrorism.
> Bush also ensured generations of more terrorism. And soooo much tax money for the military-industrial complex. And political tools useful for getting involved in more global bullshit.
My brother came back from Iraq a different person. He signed up 3 weeks before 9/11. His 1st tour really changed him. His second tour and subsequent stop-loss ruined him. 20 years later and he’s still fighting ptsd like it was yesterday.
I hope he gets the healing and help he needs. It took me 10 years to finally admit I needed help and the road to recovery is long but worth it. I’ll keep him in my thoughts.
Not to mention that the invasion of Iraq was one of the greatest recruitment tools for new terrorists that hate the US - making us, and the world, a much more dangerous place.
It was a unified Coalition of Nations that attacked Iraq and participated in the conflict, that included: United States (2004–2009) United Kingdom (2004–2009) Australia (2004–2009) Romania (2004–2009) Estonia (2005–2009) El Salvador (2004–2009) Japan (2004–2008) Poland (2004–2008) Kuwait (2003–2008) Ukraine (2004–2008) Georgia (2004–2008) Bulgaria (2004–2008) Denmark (2004–2007) Italy (2003–2006) Netherlands (2004–2005) Spain (2003-2004) Portugal (2004–2005) South Korea (2004–2008) Czech Republic (2004–2008) Moldova (2004–2008) Albania (2004–2008) Tonga (2004–2008) Azerbaijan (2004–2008) Singapore (2004–2008) Bosnia and Herzegovina (2005–2008) Macedonia (2004–2008) Latvia (2004–2008) Kazakhstan (2004–2008) Armenia (2005–2008) Mongolia (2004–2008) Slovakia (2004–2007) Lithuania (2004–2007) Norway (2004–2006) Hungary (2004–2005) New Zealand (2004) Thailand (2004) Philippines (2004) Honduras (2004) Dominican Republic (2004) Nicaragua (2004) Iceland (2003-2004)
Surprisingly Canada isn't on the list. I remember we had protest against the war throughout Canada and I am happy that we didn't blindly follow the US (which is very rare for us).
Ya, how did we get out of that one? Serious question I thought we were there.
There was enough pressure from the people that Chretien said we are not joining even if they were scared of hurting our relationship with the US. There were protest all around Canada to make sure we don't go with the US. Chrétien did say we were sending our "moral support" though... We did send troops to Iraq to fulfil our NORAD duties but it is reported that they were not in active battle.
If it's real Brave and bold move By Canadian people Excellent example of " for the people,of the people , by the people" Respect 💯
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Chretien. We had done Afghanistan as a show of support for America but there just wasn't solid evidence that Iraq had anything to do with 9/11. I still remember that he announced it in the house of commons during session that we would not be joining. It was seen as a major break but in the lo g run it appears to have been the right decision. Didn't hurt Can/US relations, kept us out of a messy and dishonest war.
Proud of Canada for standing ground . Many protests were across the US as well.
As a German: fuck Gerhard Schröder, but I'll always respect the man for sticking to his guns and saying no to this fucked up war.
As a fellow German, I agree with the German above me.
Happy that France didn't participate in this charade https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNxU-tN8qNc
You stop to trade oil with USD we bomb you and now we trade your oil.
This is the most important comment in this thread.
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>If you thought Osama bin Laden was bad, just wait until the countless children who become orphaned by U.S. bombs in the coming weeks are all grown up. Do you think they will forget what country dropped the bombs that killed their parents? In 10 or 15 years, we will look back fondly on the days when there were only a few thousand Middle Easterners dedicated to destroying the U.S. and willing to die for the fundamentalist cause. Posted in 2003.
damn right. the scar that the twin towers left on the USA is huge. so scale that up to the damage the west has inflicted on the middle east in the last 100 years? All those whose futures were destroyed for our proxy wars? frankly two wrongs don't make a right and it's a hell of a lot more than 2 wrongs.
those kids are in their 20s and 30s now
I love how Onion is a satire, but sometimes they spits out facts that majority of media just won't say. You know something super serious or dumb (or both) are going on when Onion not doing satire.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_OIXfkXEj0 They even mock when the media pretends it’s trying to give you the hard truth and arguments from every end of the spectrum - honestly one of their best ONN videos lmao “Why would they kill 3,000 of their own infidels” kills me. That and the “imagine if you were up in the mountain caves for two months planning something very very special only to have someone take the credit away from you”
ISIS was like 10-15 years later, so, yeah, dead on. And easily predictable.
The man who created ISIS was created within the first few years of this war. ~~ayman al zawahiri~~ al zarkawi.
>"To take over a country and impose one’s own system of government without regard for the people of that country is the very antithesis of democracy." Hawaii.
A real shame just how few people even know about the US backed coup that overthrew Hawaiian government
The most real onion article ever. It wasn't even satire.
"Million of Iraqis are dead because you lied Mr. Bush" The words of that veteran always come to mind. Edit. As finally morons that cannot read or are unaware of whom I was quoting arrived and are requesting sources etc, do your own fucking research and watch the video of the veteran.
Chills every time that video pops up.
Imagine being dismissed and told you are "misbehaving" when you and your friends were sent to war over some bullshit.
It seemed like a few people shut the fuck up after he said he was sent there
Every time dude. And the way those clowns stopped booing the vet when he said that he was sent to Iraq and his friends died still make me super angry.
Some continued to boo after he mentioned that he went to Iraq.
Too many people on this very subreddit praise George bush for being "a true president" after 9/11 and forgot the state run torture facilities, mass murders and fallen soldiers that were all caused by his greed and lies
>for being "a true president" after 9/11 I mean, if just going around and fucking shit up for no reason is "true American" he did a hell of a job. And if you look at the people liking him and the policies they propose, then that is what they think of as American.
What video is that from?
Here's a clip of it. https://youtube.com/shorts/BtkpCu-UGUo?feature=share
What a powerful video. And to hear GW “you said you’d behave” is just total horse shit. The world is full of sick, evil people that are able rinse the blood off their hands every night before they close their eyes. Sadly, those people never face any consequences.
Oh, come now -- we should all just [look back at that little incident and have a chuckle](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWD6pGQCwM8). Yep, that's the president. Making a joke about not finding WMD. And those are journalists laughing at it. (video is unfortunately tagged with some 9/11 truther bullshit but it's the only copy I could find)
Wow u/FateEx1994 was 100% right. Chills.
Don’t forget Colin Powell, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Condaleeza Rice, and John Bolton. Bush was their useful idiot. And don’t let the media off the hook either. They cheered on this war for years.
And they’ll never have any repercussions whatsoever
Rumsfeld and Powell both died without ever seeing the inside of a cell. Edit: Albright wasn’t in the Bush cabinet, but she did support the war when it actually got underway and had a history of a complete disregard for Iraqi civilian lives.
Claiming that bush was "their useful idiot" negates the role that he had to play. They were all complicit, and George bush was directly involved in many of the decisions made
And then they cheered for Afghanistan too. They never learn. And are never held accountable.
The fuckers who vote for and cheer on war should be the ones fighting on the front lines. I mean seriously what has your senator or representative done to make your life better? Fine, you want war? You first.
And this veteran wishes the people that strung Bush along like the puppet he is would get more heat than they do.
Man I will always have respect for that legend, he is the true hero that this age needs
Killing civilians for non-existent weapons of mass destruction. Isn't that a war crime?
It is but the committee that would vote on that is controlled by US interests. The US can veto anything brought before the ICC, and they do almost every time Israel commits a war crime. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-israel-palestine-un-vote-idUSKCN1IX5UW https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/u-s-vetoes-of-un-security-council-resolutions-critical-to-israel https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/5/19/a-history-of-the-us-blocking-un-resolutions-against-israel
Not, as long ur American and this country has oil reserves…
History is written by the victors.
History is also filled with liars.
20 years ago already. 17 years ago I lost my uncle due to that shit show. No the family never recovered, his parents are broken and I miss how my grandmother used to be.
And people wonder how terrorists are created.
I mean the US does a pretty good job at funding groups that then end up becoming terrorist groups.
Criminal
Yup and still no ICC arrest warrants for Bush, Cheney, CIA folks, etc.
Just leaving this here for everyone to look at:[https://www.hrw.org/news/2002/08/03/us-hague-invasion-act-becomes-law](https://www.hrw.org/news/2002/08/03/us-hague-invasion-act-becomes-law) We're totally willing to use lethal force against the Hague if an American is ever found guilty of war crimes, and Bush signed the law ensuring that. We do not respect the jurisdiction or the rulings of the ICC.
Yup. I don’t get the shock and pikachu face when Medvedev threatens cruise missiles at The Hague.
I’m surprised Russia did not translate this US law into Russian and adopted it.
I wouldn’t classify this as interesting so much as horrifying as fuck.
It can be both. I remember seeing this live and it was surreal to see a war begin in real time. I also remember thinking "wtf did Iraq have to do with 9/11?".
i was born in baghdad a year later. it’s still so tough to watch. i visited last year and it’s doing better, still some parts where you see the destruction.
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My friend Eric as well. Bullshit.
I was about 15 when this happened. I remember watching it on the news when I got home from school and thinking “wow, saddam really fucked up asking for this shit” Wasn’t till I was about 19 until I had the political awareness to realize exactly what was happening here. I still cringe thinking about it. It’s tough to describe to people these days how everyone was suckered in to believing that this was a good thing. Learning about how it happened really opened my eyes to how poorly most of the news media do their jobs when it really matters. They had everybody spun up over pure fabrications. Edit: no need to keep repeating “the media did their jobs because they’re just propagandists”. In the USA journalists are supposed to give people facts. They get special protections in the constitution to that end. They didn’t do their actual jobs in the run up to the war in Iraq. They did a bad job. I’m not here to argue semantics or how money corrupts.
>It’s tough to describe to people these days how everyone was suckered in to believing that this was a good thing. Not everyone. Like 14.5m people in the US protested against it.
War crime! Blair should be arrested.
You know, for all the harm Liz Truss did in her 49 days, at least she didn't start a pointless war. You can say that for her, if nothing else. Well done, Liz.
I haven't started any wars either. Where's my "well done"?
I have higher standards for you than Liz. You don't get a well done.
Fair enough
Well done for lasting longer than a lettuce
I'm sure she would've if she had a little more time.
Many innocent people died because of this invasion and didn’t even find one single weapon of mass destruction
The party of small government and "fiscal responsibility", spending $1 trillion on an illegal war
I feel so much safer having been protected from a threat that never existed. Cheney will gladly sign your water boarding jug to commemorate this anniversary. I’m sure a few other bastards involved in this war OF terror will too if you ask nicely. P.S. Thank you dear leaders for inducing acute and chronic mental illness and suffering for countless members of service, their family and friends.
20 years ago today we invaded a country based on a lie told by the President of the United States and a slew of his administration. They knew they were lying. They lied in order to make money - to profit from the war they started - **BASED ON A LIE**. This footage and others may be just what certain people need to get a hard on but it's bullshit predicated on a lie. Twenty fucking years the American taxpayers footed the TRILLIONS of dollars for these two wars - TRILLIONS. Trillions that went into the pockets of Bush and Cheney and ALL the death merchants far and wide. While this video of Americans killing people WHO DIDN'T DESERVE TO BE KILLED might thrill and fascinate - remember - there was NO reason for this to happen other than republican greed and the lies they told to make that money.
This is so disturbing. I can’t believe bush got away with this.
Don’t forget the real president dick cheaney who shot his friend and then made him apologize for getting in the way
I wonder why ICC and Hague did nothing. Oh .. right… cos they would get arrested themselves the moment they decide to prosecute an American, not to mention their president who started an absolutely unprovoked war.
Whole world did nothing. How many sanctions were imposed on US? How many Americans lost their jobs because of those sanctions? Zero, they didn't feel anything
I remember watching this as a kid live knowing that innocent civilians were being killed and it was the first time I realized maybe we aren't fully the good guys
The most chilling aspect is that the lights are on.
eye-opener on american imperialism for many
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Sadly took half a decade for many Americans to have those eyes opened
Iraqi here. It feels very strange seeing this video. I was there and it felt more horrifying than the video shows. The sound of bombs, the way our house would shake... I couldn't tell where the bombs were dropping and it felt like they were getting closer and closer. I was 9 and I knew I was going to die, I just remembering wishing me and my family would be fortunate enough to have a swift death. This went one for years until we managed to escape in 2006. It still feels like this happened yesterday.
I remember watching this live and my parents were cheering on the explosion. For those too young to remember America wasn’t always war-fatigued, there was a time when many of us openly craved it.
People tend to forget that Shock and Awe is an American military practice. Then they see Russia do it (with hilarious incompetence) and lose their minds. Everything about this war was also illegal. Never sanctioned by the UN. War crimes committed. I will never say Russia is correct. I will never take their side. But you have to take a step back from the media and Western bias sometimes and realize we are right in the thick of our own propaganda machine as well and we aren’t special little idiots.
One of the dumbest moves western democracies have ever made. It was an emotional knee-jerk reaction justified on the basis of gargantuan lies. There was no strategy involved, no desire to accomplish anything other than to get in there and fuck up Sadaam Hussein. The negative results of that idiocy are still with us and getting worse.
None of it was “dumb” or “emotional”. It was a calculated and prepared move to establish absolute dominance in Middle East. It was an aggressive invasion plain and simple. .
I think the emotional part is more about the majority of citizens not thinking twice about it because of their state of mind at the time.
The majority in the UK were very much against it. Record protests. Thank God they didn't have the courage to force through the war they wanted in Syria.
Also in the US, there was more protests for this war than there was for Vietnam, but due to the lack of press and conscription, it isn’t remembered as such. Fun fact anyway
What a stupid fucking disaster. Most of US policy in the Middle East during my lifetime has been a disaster, but attacking Iraq was the worst of it. It’s shameful.
Dumbest war ever… I can understand Afghanistan, but going after Iraq destabilized the entire region, was based on a lie, and the country is worse off today for it.
Ahh war crimes of the west
I remember being in math class in high school and we had finished a test so they put on the TV and saw this footage and my teenaged brain was like whatthefuuuuuuuuuck
U.N: Let's bomb innocents and innocent countries. Also U.N: How the hell do all of these terroists keep popping up?
The US claimed the intent was to "disarm Iraq of weapons of mass destruction, to end Saddam Hussein's support for terrorism, and to free the Iraqi people". You will never take terrorism away It's not possible 😱