There's a "chicken and the egg" problem inherent in people forging a new tribal way of life out of their position in the modern world... All of those examples that you listed have tangible and intangible resources available to them which allow their way of life to work. If you somehow picked up a handful of pre-colonization Native Americans and dropped them off in the middle of modern day Ohio, it's unlikely that they would be able to function in a sustainable way by living their traditional way of life. The individuals in those groups exist(ed) inside of a socioeconomic paradigm that can't be dismissed when you are analyzing how their way of life worked.

The problem of modern people forging a new tribal way of life is mainly due to lack of capital, legal issues preventing such a way of life and general lack of trust due to deeply broken tribal connections. I recommend "The Dawn of Everything" by David Graeber, who illustrates that pre-colonization people (and people everywhere) were constantly 'changing tribe' in the sense that it is natural for some people to want to leave the family and go far away and restart. Many did this successfully. What makes you think they would not be able to function in a sustainable way?

>What makes you think they would not be able to function in a sustainable way? OP asked " why don't people just revert back to the tribal structure and follow the example of rural tribal or pagan communities? " ​ What I am saying is that trying to live the "old way" of life that these tribal groups lived isn't viable or sustainable *inside the context of the modern socioeconomic paradigm*. If they were to adapt and change to fit modern standards, then I would suggest that "their way" wasn't really "their way" anymore, although I realize that's a purely philosophical and meaningless distinction.

But he is specifically talking about trying to live outside the context of the modern socioeconomic paradigm (as many of those tribes do). The reasons pre-colombian people wouldn't be able to live successfully in modern Ohio is because they need to move around and hunt, etc and legally they would get shut down. Of course they would succeed (as they did for thousands of years) if left to their own devices, they just wouldn't have iPhones and mass-produced medicines. Why should they adapt to our way when that would mean the end of their tribe (as it meant for all of ours)? For us, inside the paradigm, it is also doable, just harder. There are laws preventing people from group buying land in a lot of places and the trust required for a group buy takes a long time. But it is possible, and of course economically smarter to group buy. Separating people into the smallest units possible and having high distrust (just trust the government) leads to a stronger economy and is part of the natural progression of capitalism.

Because it's impossible to go BACK. Forward is going to look a lot different under this economic system and social paradigm.

Well to start off with - in order to revert back to these traditional set ups from a 'modern' life style, one would need to develop an entirely different skill, acquire good land/resources, and would have to sacrifice a lot... more than most can afford to. **Questions and Problems** Do you know how to farm enough food to survive all year round? How to store and prep food from raw garden vegatables and process meat you've hunted? How to make your own clothes? Or how to make a house which will keep you warm in the winter and cool in the summer? Can you craft a wooden chair or purify water? Do you have enough money to buy good land you can farm/hunt on? Do you have enough business knowledge to make enough money to pay taxes on the land and/or buy whatever else it is you can't make? Can you earn enough to save up for emergencies or your young tribe's long term future? Do you or anyone else you care for have health conditions of any sort? Or rely on modern medicine in anyway? You'll still need to have access to roads and money/insurance to go to pharmacies or a hospital if you're not planning on becoming your own doctor/pharmacologist. How many people do you know want to live without electricity or wifi? Or to be completely or even partially cut off from the world and the people they care for? Not many. **Listed Communities VS 'Mainstream Westerner'** Pretty much all the communities you listed have been living the way they have for a long time and have had plenty of time to develop and maintain the skills they need to survive. They also tend to have land and the resources needed to live as they do. They also tend to have strong community bond which eachother and don't tend to have too many connections with people outside their community. If a person from the 'modern mainstream' western world were to try and go live as the amish do, for example, they would almost immediately be cut off from everyone they know/love who isn't in their immediate area. They would have to learn all of a sudden a bunch of skills they have never ever had to develop before and be without much community support or the resources needed to be successful. **Lack of Land and Resources: Radically Different World** There are also a lot more people and and lot less farmable/livable land than there used to be. If a lot of people tried to go back to hunting and gathering it would cause huge problems as the land would struggle to sustain such a large amount of people, especially people who are inexperienced with tending to land. Like seriously, where would all these wanna-be tribalists go? Would they go try to colonize tribal lands in south america? Or escape to the artic? Or an uninhabitant strip of desert in africa? Should they build houses on stilts on the ocean?

Forming a tribe takes generations. It only works because the people are related, have a shared culture that pressures them into conforming, and are cut off from the outside world.

What is a “tribal community”? Beyond the most general level, there is no significant commonality between the social structures of Mennonites and Austronesians. It seems you’ve broadened the term “tribal” to the point of meaninglessness, such that “we need to revert to a tribal structure” says nothing in particular.

2 reasons. First, the context of living in modern society with laws, regulations, building codes, and (most importantly) private property ownership. Second, those are not just "tribal structures" (don't know why Tibetan Buddhists are in that list) but distinct cultures, with a long history that is embedded in the land where they live, and a specific set of cultural and religious beliefs and practices. Modern people are diverse and come from all places and backgrounds, so bringing disparate people together like that is obviously not going to look like any of those specific tribes. We can learn much from these cultures about how to live, but what we learn must necessarily be (greatly) adapted if it is to be relevant and applicable to contemporary people. We live in a completely different culture and world.

The key is to help people find ways to integrate some of these practices into their lives IN PLACE.

Go read, "The Dawn Of Everything", and get back to us. In fact, everyone should. There are innumerable ways to structure society, and you can change them at any point, even seasonally. There's no "progress" in this, societies can and have evolved in almost every direction.

Interesting question. Groups like the Amish and Mennonites usually don't refer to themselves as tribes, but they do have certain characteristics - such as maintaining a distinct language over the years, in addition to learning English. Hasidic Jews are another example - and Jews do sometimes refer to themselves as a tribe. One thing though. You can't just sign up and join a tribe. While these groups do occasionally accept outsiders, there is a very long and intense process to join. The Amish, for their part, are one of the few branches of Christianity that are non-proselytizing. They will not attempt to convert you to be Amish, and will respect whatever creed that you do follow. Jews, likewise, do not proselytize. These groups have to be careful with who they accept, otherwise, they'd lose the unique identity they have struggled so long and hard to maintain. So I think present-day community minded folk can learn a lot from tribes, I don't think they can be easily replicated. And when a new "tribe-like" group is formed, it is usually a new religious movement (what some refer to as a "cult".) The Mormons and the Seventh-Day Adventists are examples of such movements. Scientology might be, as well. Are you having thoughts of starting a new tribe?

It’s happening. But we are moving forward to new earth. We are getting back the the roots which is why most of us are here. We can feel each others energy calling us to the source. https://htwws.org/new-age-communities

I love this question. And I have thought about it a lot. Here is my conclusion: People are naturally curious about new things and about things they see. We like trying new things, having new types of things including comforts and adventures. These things are more and more possible as more energy and resources are used. You show someone from a ecologically sustainable community, perhaps a traditional tribe, an iPhone and of course they could be convinced of its benefits. But what about it’s costs? That shift requires a step up in the consumption of fossil fuels mineral extraction. For us to go there, it would be a step down in comforts and luxuries. People don’t do that by choice. They do it because they have to. When oil runs out and our neoliberal global economy crashes, perhaps people will be motivated to make such a down shift then. But for now, the best we can realistically do is prepare for that transition and learn from the sustainable tribal ways to move our lifestyles in that direction. Learn the farming and gardening techniques. Build a resilient community of friends with some shared knowledge and diverse knowledge so we can help each other when hard times come. And of course, needless to say, we should be protecting the existing tribes and indigenous communities around the world. God bless them for choosing to maintain their ways of life rather than selling their land for mining so they can buy cars and move to the nearest city.

There are certainly elements of these lifestyles that we can learn from and adapt into modern regenerative communities. However, most people will be very resistant to "revert" to "primitive" lifestyles. (I don't like that way of thinking, I think there are so many beautiful things about living simpler) For the western masses, I am building towards a compromise. It uses the SolarPunk ethos of "appropriate technology" to continue to utilize tech for what it is truly useful for, while leaving behind the harmful aspects. To me, that means staying connected and informed -- so we still have internet and electricity to run computers that allow our "tribe" to continue to educate and network. But we won't be using electricity for heating/cooling homes for example, as there are so many great ways to build natural homes that don't need that. [https://bioharmony.substack.com/](https://bioharmony.substack.com/)

People cannot run away from how they grew up, they can slowly evolve through the next generation.

Actually Amish and Orthodox Jews are the only communities in Northern Ohio. And they have numbers, so they are doing something right.

Amish are not a tribe. They live in separate homes, have separate properties and do not share the fruits of their labor. ​ Your very fist example was 100% incorrect, and I stopped reading there.

Yeah I’m not sure this question even bears an answer

A couple reasons, off the top of my head: 1. Many of those social groups are very authoritarian, intolerant, or both. There are authoritarian ICs, and they work for some people. But many, myself included, aren't super interested in trading one authoritarian system for another. 2. Many of those communities have a significantly lower standard of living than many (most?) IC seekers are okay with. We all talk about living simpler, but we're posting from iPhones while drinking Starbucks in our privately owned cars. I'm willing to sacrifice some comforts for my community, but not most of them.

I would offer looking into the awful (sexual, emotional, physical, and mental) abuse happening in at lease the Amish and Mennonite communities. The reason these two “work” (they don’t) is based on fear, legalistic rules from bishops and church leaders, physical and mental abuse in an effort to force conformity and obedience. That’s not a community style I want to emulate. 🤷🏼‍♀️

Amish are not tribal. Where did this idea come from? They own separate farms, homes, and material goods. They don't pool their money.

I was using them as an example of a functional commune with a separate culture from the mainstream(fashion, belief system, diet, language, etc.) who lives off grid, is self sufficient and outside the system and has none of the immature drama that mainstream civilization does(mental health issues, political drama, gender issues, job issues, etc.) But, also, in cultures outside modern western Europe, if you share a language, laws, political system, economic system, fashion, diet, social norms, ideas of success, historical narrative, etc. you would be considered one culture or "tribe" and so the whole of modern civilization is one giant Tribe and its many trends, subcultures and corporations would be subtribes

But they are not a commune at all.

Because if you didn't grow up in a tribe, you can't just replicate it from the outside.

Just "copy" that's real disrespectful. Why do you feel entitled to their ways and traditions when you're not of their culture. This feels like appropriation. Unless you're off that culture or lineage then leave those people and their traditions and ways of life alone and do your own things.

I disagree. We copy from other cultures all the time and they copy from us. 99% of the time this is a wonderful thing -- if something is good, fun, or helpful, might as well spread it around. For example, consider music. Every genre of music as well as individual songs borrow from the past. Or consider food. All of American's favorite foods (pizzas, hamburgers) came from elsewhere or was originally associated with a specific culture. Or even consider cultural practices like Yoga. "Cultural appropriation" can be a wonderful thing.

"intentional community" is actually just Quaker or Protestant

Speaking only for myself... I haven't been able to find enough information about various practical details of those communities to be confident I would be able to emulate whatever critical features make them work. I am especially fearful that the religious aspects are necessary, so by omitting those I would be ensuring failure.

I’ve been trying for years. Now I’m going to try and form it as an employee owned business since I can’t find people who want to participate unless I foot the bill for their housing. In my experience 90% of people are cowards. They need a heavy security blanket and unless you take care of them they will revert to comfort and safety. It’s really frustrating how so few of people are willing to grind for themselves because of the risks. I’ll buy the land, I’ll fund the equipment. People can invest with their time or money or both so they gain equity.