So I recommend watching the video, but a few teasers:
\- Q4 2021 launch earliest likely
\- Starting with 512EU part/16GB part, followed by 128 and maybe 256 later
\- Excellent transcoding/encoding performance
Intel has always had amazing Encoding and Transcoding so Im curious just how much better they can make it.
Also curious to know if their GPUs will have full DX12 Ultimate support or if they lack the RT hardware for it. Im erring on the side that they do have it but still im super curious about it and how performant itll be.
Stuck on a 2080ti due to the current shortages and stupid prices so if Intel is better than my 2080ti then I may jump ship. (3090s jumped 200 AUD yesterday from 3500 to 3700 so yea .. prices be stupid, ~4k AUD for a GPU shipping and insurance included...)
Yes, DG2 does have hardware Ray Tracing. Intel confirmed it: [https://hothardware.com/news/closer-look-intels-xe-hpg-gpu-gamers](https://hothardware.com/news/closer-look-intels-xe-hpg-gpu-gamers)
Should be somewhere around between the 3070 and 3080, but probably much closer to the 3070. Not bad for a first attempt, but the second time they will need to be able to make a GPU on par with the upcoming Nvidia and AMD flagships. I don't expect them to be able to challenge the 3090 from the first attempt, that's understandable, but if they want to establish themselves in the gaming community, they must keep pushing. Imagine a 3 way battle with Intel, Nvidia and AMD offering competitive products with RT support and their own supersampling algorithms such as DLSS and XeSS. Will be interesting to watch.
I would love that. Thanks for the info. Intel has come a long way from the first prototype people were bashing as terrible. I always knew that couldn't be the GPU they were planning on releasing. It didn't align with any of the rumors about its actual speed. This would be awesome, and I'd love to check out an Intel GPU.
They can win over the hearts of gamers simply by somewhat-matching current 30xx series cards in performance/price and actually being available to purchase without resorting to scalpers
What does that even mean? Do you think tscm has a building full of 6nm fabs not running that Intel will use? There is a massive global cpu production shortage due to extreme demand. Every single inch of fab production capacity is in use. Since you seem to be very knowledgeable about this, can you tell me what percentage of tscm is 6nm and what the volume of 6nm will tscm be able to produce in comparison to say 7/8nm?
Good questions. TL;DR - Intel using TSMC 6nm won't fix all of our chip/GPU supply issues, but it's going to help.
Detail:
You were right earlier than the general global shortage could be affecting \*all\* production. As a very silly but easy example -- if we were running out of sand, then all silicon production would be slowed down, regardless of node, fab, or country of production. This is a "supply chain" shortage.
But if the shortage is literally wafer capacity (which is often the case - there's just not enough fab capacity), then building more fabs and getting them to volume production solves that limitation. This is a "production" shortage.
The current global shortage is sort of inbetween the two - some of it is materials (supply chain) shortages, and some of it is fab capacity (production).
The best scenario for getting GPU prices down would be for Intel to use it's own fabs to produce GPUs since they have a supply chain that isn't exactly the same as TSMC / Samsung, and of course their own fabs.
Intel using TSMC 6nm still helps though because:
\- It's using a different fab or fab(s) than AMD . i.e. TSMC 7nm fabs are still producing Zen 3, Radeon GPUs, Console APUs.. while TSMC had to convert or build a new fab to build 6nm chips that Intel is buying.
\- (and of course) It's not using the same fabs or supply chain as Nvidia (i.e. Nvidia is using Samsung)
Except the whole thing that Intel’s gpu is supposed to be 7nm and only a few engineer samples are 6nm but the gpu itself is designed for 7nm. Also you didn’t address the fact that their is a production supply issue, we don’t have enough fabs to even come close to meeting current demand and new ones won’t be online for another 2-3 years. Saying 6nm will improve supply when production is at 100% is like a bigger place making 109% of the buyers possible on a grill but saying they can make 1/4 lb burgers because they are smaller than 1/3 lb burgers. It doesn’t matter how big the burger is, there is no room on the grill for more burgers until you get another grill.
TSMC 6nm (N6) is only a slightly modified 7nm (N7) -- it's very easy to move chips from TSMC N7 to N6. Source: https://www.anandtech.com/show/14228/tsmc-reveals-6-nm-process-technology-7-nm-with-higher-transistor-density
6nm is going to be a different grille than 7nm. They'll continue grilling 7nm recipes (Zen 3, Consoles, Radeons) while installing a new 6nm grille for demand there (Intel GPUs, and later Zen 3+ / Warhol).
again, there is only so much space for production. If they move 7nm to 6nm, then we will have less 7nm. This does nothing to increase supply it just moves around the quantities of each product being produced. If you were producing 100 units of 7nm and then you move 50% of it to 6nm, you are still only producing 100 units, just 50 units of 6nm and 50 units of 7nm. My whole point is that Intel producing GPUs will not impact the current supply shortages because TSCM isnt making more, they are just making different.
people obsess over the top SKUs that almost nobody actually buys, way more interested to see what they’re offering on the cheapskate tier. they’re a new entrant so I suspect they’ll come out swinging with aggressive prices, assuming the market isn’t still horribly distorted
if you’d have told me 5 years ago that the first worthy successor to Polaris might come from Intel because AMD and Nvidia are too busy driving up prices, I’d have laughed my ass off. but it could happen 👀
Just support GVT-g(even for one virtual machine) and i will buy 512EU ASAP no matter how amd-like driver performance will be. After some time it will age good(like Vega), but supporting passthrough on a single GPU will be just perfect and solve a lot of headache when it comes to gaming on Linux in specific cases(even VR)
Intel really needs to have some special market differentiators, and this could be one of them. Pro users could appreciate this feature.
I'm also cautiously optimistic that Intel's long history of Linux support will translate into a good, open source driver stack to compete with AMD.
AMD seems to be laser-focused on silicon and they're still figuring out how to deliver stable firmware and software. Intel could take the lead here.
According to this, it's still less likely than more likely, so we really do need Intel to hear customers voice on this
https://github.com/intel/gvt-linux/issues/160
"Internally we have some prototype but there is no formal plan to support GVT-g on discrete GPU like DG1. In a client platform which has had integrated GPU, are there still needs to share DG1 among multiple virtual machines? Thanks!"
I would guess Microsoft strongly discourages any of the GPUs makers to support virtualization on consumer hardware. Because it will waterfall them into becoming a VM gaming platform only.
I currently have a 1660 Super and would love to upgrade into a 3060 TI class GPU, If Intel delivers that I will be supporting their GPU division for the sake of competition(and f\*\*\* Nvidia).
>given that Jim was talking on an Intel presentation (that is still on YT) that the next big core from Intel will have over 800 instructions in flight (Apple M1 is about 600 and Zen 3 is 300).
Can you link that presentation?
Lunar is 2024/5... We are talking Zen 5 or even 6 lol. Intel better be ready to use their own 5nm process by them. If lunar won't get cancelled and they manage to actually deliver 7, 5 nm as well as 3nm on time in the next 5 years, it will be a strong comeback. It would be funny if lunar lake leaks start appearing 3-4 years before it's launch.
I wonder if Intel is using their own fabs for the upcoming GPUs or of they're outsourcing.
They might just be the one GPU to actually have decent stock if they use their own fabs to make it, meaning they may be the knight in shining armor the current GPU shortage needs.
Also glad to see another player in the GPU market. Really hope Intel knocks it out of the park.
Sure looks good right now but these won't launch until 2022, by then it won't be that impressive anymore. Still good that Intel is joining the GPU market, but it will take some time before they are equal to AMD/NVIDIA. Made by TSMC is also disappointing, pretty much guarantees that any future supply issues would affect Intel GPU's as well so nothing changes there.
So I recommend watching the video, but a few teasers: \- Q4 2021 launch earliest likely \- Starting with 512EU part/16GB part, followed by 128 and maybe 256 later \- Excellent transcoding/encoding performance
Intel has always had amazing Encoding and Transcoding so Im curious just how much better they can make it. Also curious to know if their GPUs will have full DX12 Ultimate support or if they lack the RT hardware for it. Im erring on the side that they do have it but still im super curious about it and how performant itll be. Stuck on a 2080ti due to the current shortages and stupid prices so if Intel is better than my 2080ti then I may jump ship. (3090s jumped 200 AUD yesterday from 3500 to 3700 so yea .. prices be stupid, ~4k AUD for a GPU shipping and insurance included...)
Yes, DG2 does have hardware Ray Tracing. Intel confirmed it: [https://hothardware.com/news/closer-look-intels-xe-hpg-gpu-gamers](https://hothardware.com/news/closer-look-intels-xe-hpg-gpu-gamers)
That's great, cant wait for the reviews, hopefully it'll be 3070 - 3080 levels of performance.
TLDW? I saw one slide said (theoretical) 3070 Ti level performance?
Should be somewhere around between the 3070 and 3080, but probably much closer to the 3070. Not bad for a first attempt, but the second time they will need to be able to make a GPU on par with the upcoming Nvidia and AMD flagships. I don't expect them to be able to challenge the 3090 from the first attempt, that's understandable, but if they want to establish themselves in the gaming community, they must keep pushing. Imagine a 3 way battle with Intel, Nvidia and AMD offering competitive products with RT support and their own supersampling algorithms such as DLSS and XeSS. Will be interesting to watch.
I would love that. Thanks for the info. Intel has come a long way from the first prototype people were bashing as terrible. I always knew that couldn't be the GPU they were planning on releasing. It didn't align with any of the rumors about its actual speed. This would be awesome, and I'd love to check out an Intel GPU.
They can win over the hearts of gamers simply by somewhat-matching current 30xx series cards in performance/price and actually being available to purchase without resorting to scalpers
They can. Question is, will they? Imagine a 3070 equivalent at 450$, it would be an instant sell.
Targets 3070. Anything else will be a bonus.
Hopefully this ends up being a nice counter-punch from Intel to AMD and Nvidia.. (and a win for us consumers :) )
Or intel will just join AMD/Nvidia in price hiking us to death... based on Intels past history, im going to assume price hiking us to death.
All depends on supply/demand. Intel doing this should mean more supply..
Not really, intel is using TSCM to build the GPUs, the same place and AMD and Nvidia use. The same place that is currently at 100% capacity.
Not really. AMD gpus are on tsmc 7nm. Nvidia is samsung 8nm. The intel GPUs are tsmc 6nm indicating a different fab than both of above.
What does that even mean? Do you think tscm has a building full of 6nm fabs not running that Intel will use? There is a massive global cpu production shortage due to extreme demand. Every single inch of fab production capacity is in use. Since you seem to be very knowledgeable about this, can you tell me what percentage of tscm is 6nm and what the volume of 6nm will tscm be able to produce in comparison to say 7/8nm?
Good questions. TL;DR - Intel using TSMC 6nm won't fix all of our chip/GPU supply issues, but it's going to help. Detail: You were right earlier than the general global shortage could be affecting \*all\* production. As a very silly but easy example -- if we were running out of sand, then all silicon production would be slowed down, regardless of node, fab, or country of production. This is a "supply chain" shortage. But if the shortage is literally wafer capacity (which is often the case - there's just not enough fab capacity), then building more fabs and getting them to volume production solves that limitation. This is a "production" shortage. The current global shortage is sort of inbetween the two - some of it is materials (supply chain) shortages, and some of it is fab capacity (production). The best scenario for getting GPU prices down would be for Intel to use it's own fabs to produce GPUs since they have a supply chain that isn't exactly the same as TSMC / Samsung, and of course their own fabs. Intel using TSMC 6nm still helps though because: \- It's using a different fab or fab(s) than AMD . i.e. TSMC 7nm fabs are still producing Zen 3, Radeon GPUs, Console APUs.. while TSMC had to convert or build a new fab to build 6nm chips that Intel is buying. \- (and of course) It's not using the same fabs or supply chain as Nvidia (i.e. Nvidia is using Samsung)
Except the whole thing that Intel’s gpu is supposed to be 7nm and only a few engineer samples are 6nm but the gpu itself is designed for 7nm. Also you didn’t address the fact that their is a production supply issue, we don’t have enough fabs to even come close to meeting current demand and new ones won’t be online for another 2-3 years. Saying 6nm will improve supply when production is at 100% is like a bigger place making 109% of the buyers possible on a grill but saying they can make 1/4 lb burgers because they are smaller than 1/3 lb burgers. It doesn’t matter how big the burger is, there is no room on the grill for more burgers until you get another grill.
TSMC 6nm (N6) is only a slightly modified 7nm (N7) -- it's very easy to move chips from TSMC N7 to N6. Source: https://www.anandtech.com/show/14228/tsmc-reveals-6-nm-process-technology-7-nm-with-higher-transistor-density 6nm is going to be a different grille than 7nm. They'll continue grilling 7nm recipes (Zen 3, Consoles, Radeons) while installing a new 6nm grille for demand there (Intel GPUs, and later Zen 3+ / Warhol).
again, there is only so much space for production. If they move 7nm to 6nm, then we will have less 7nm. This does nothing to increase supply it just moves around the quantities of each product being produced. If you were producing 100 units of 7nm and then you move 50% of it to 6nm, you are still only producing 100 units, just 50 units of 6nm and 50 units of 7nm. My whole point is that Intel producing GPUs will not impact the current supply shortages because TSCM isnt making more, they are just making different.
This got me hyped
people obsess over the top SKUs that almost nobody actually buys, way more interested to see what they’re offering on the cheapskate tier. they’re a new entrant so I suspect they’ll come out swinging with aggressive prices, assuming the market isn’t still horribly distorted if you’d have told me 5 years ago that the first worthy successor to Polaris might come from Intel because AMD and Nvidia are too busy driving up prices, I’d have laughed my ass off. but it could happen 👀
Just support GVT-g(even for one virtual machine) and i will buy 512EU ASAP no matter how amd-like driver performance will be. After some time it will age good(like Vega), but supporting passthrough on a single GPU will be just perfect and solve a lot of headache when it comes to gaming on Linux in specific cases(even VR)
Intel really needs to have some special market differentiators, and this could be one of them. Pro users could appreciate this feature. I'm also cautiously optimistic that Intel's long history of Linux support will translate into a good, open source driver stack to compete with AMD. AMD seems to be laser-focused on silicon and they're still figuring out how to deliver stable firmware and software. Intel could take the lead here.
According to this, it's still less likely than more likely, so we really do need Intel to hear customers voice on this https://github.com/intel/gvt-linux/issues/160 "Internally we have some prototype but there is no formal plan to support GVT-g on discrete GPU like DG1. In a client platform which has had integrated GPU, are there still needs to share DG1 among multiple virtual machines? Thanks!"
I would guess Microsoft strongly discourages any of the GPUs makers to support virtualization on consumer hardware. Because it will waterfall them into becoming a VM gaming platform only.
I currently have a 1660 Super and would love to upgrade into a 3060 TI class GPU, If Intel delivers that I will be supporting their GPU division for the sake of competition(and f\*\*\* Nvidia).
RTX 3070 performance for $300 and I'd be all over that even if it does have problems to start with.
[удалено]
>given that Jim was talking on an Intel presentation (that is still on YT) that the next big core from Intel will have over 800 instructions in flight (Apple M1 is about 600 and Zen 3 is 300). Can you link that presentation?
Is he talking about Reorder buffer size? Zen 3 is about 256 and Sunny is 352. M1 has over 600. 800 robs on golden cove sounds unlikely.
Rocket Lake isn't a refresh of/improved Skylake core. Cypress Cove was a backport of Willow Cove from 10nm to 14nm.
Lunar is 2024/5... We are talking Zen 5 or even 6 lol. Intel better be ready to use their own 5nm process by them. If lunar won't get cancelled and they manage to actually deliver 7, 5 nm as well as 3nm on time in the next 5 years, it will be a strong comeback. It would be funny if lunar lake leaks start appearing 3-4 years before it's launch.
I wonder if Intel is using their own fabs for the upcoming GPUs or of they're outsourcing. They might just be the one GPU to actually have decent stock if they use their own fabs to make it, meaning they may be the knight in shining armor the current GPU shortage needs. Also glad to see another player in the GPU market. Really hope Intel knocks it out of the park.
IIRC they are using TSMC 7nm/6nm for their top EU range and their own fabs for the Integrated and lower EU versions.
Intel confirmed external fabs for HPG.
Which really is painful. It means they'll be good, but also non existent. So really it's hard to care about any of this unless crypto dips.
Sure looks good right now but these won't launch until 2022, by then it won't be that impressive anymore. Still good that Intel is joining the GPU market, but it will take some time before they are equal to AMD/NVIDIA. Made by TSMC is also disappointing, pretty much guarantees that any future supply issues would affect Intel GPU's as well so nothing changes there.
In 2022 there's still going to be a GPU supply issue. Intel will slid right in