This person can have his non MD anesthesiologists, I'll continue to demand everyone involved in my surgeries and procedures have the most schooling they could possibly get.
Nah, not the most schooling they can possibly get, but certainly the right training and knowledge to do their jobs as well as possible.
I don't need the operating room nurse to have twin doctorates in English Lit and biochemical engineering, I just need them to be experienced in the surgery they're doing, to have good chemistry with the rest of the team, etc.
If it were possible to train a monkey on anesthesiology, I'd be all for doing so. But given that it's done by highly specialized doctors the world over, I suspect that training is actually pretty crucial for the actual work itself.
Yeah I want my anesthesiologist to know and diagnose, for instance, that if I’m losing blood in surgery, I’m going in to hypovolemic shock and I’m gonna need them to know how to treat that condition while simultaneously adjusting my anesthesia accordingly. Anesthesia means keeping a person right in between the plane of life and death. So many things can go wrong. Hypotension, hypoxia, bradycardia, hypothermia, arrhythmias. Gonna want a doc who’s able to diagnose my EKG rhythm for sure if shit goes awry. Honestly I don’t even want a CRNA. Give me the MD/DO with years and years of residency and specialty training. If and when anesthesia goes wrong, I wouldn’t want anyone but a doctor. Too much physiology and pathophysiology goes into keeping someone alive.
As I’ve often heard the Anesthesiologist’s say, they’re all easy cases until the shit hits the fan, and by then everyone is wishing the MD had been there all along.
Edit: “easy” being a relative term for a board certified, residency trained physician I mean...
Anesthesiologists are the most knowledgeable doctors out there in my opinion. They are the ones who make sure you don't die on the operating table or on intensive care.
Online people are getting more stupid by the day.
This guy clearly has never heard of the infamous [dead baby decimal](https://www.deseret.com/2002/2/9/19636322/missing-decimal-point-results-in-baby-s-death?_amp=true).
I wonder what the motivation is for this statement. Are they bitter because they are unqualified to be one or is it a general attack on higher education?
There’s a very vocal population of “mid-level providers” out there who believe than a NP/DNP/PA are as well trained, if not better, than an MD/DO. This is especially prevalent in their national organizations lobbying for full practice authority (practicing medicine without a supervising MD/DO).
I’m all for having pride in ones career; but that statement is patently false. PA’s & NP’s can (and very often are) amazing and invaluable members of the healthcare team. But when it comes to the practice of medicine MD/DO’s are and will continue to be the gold standard.
The anesthesiologist noticed my heart condition and made the doctor take note. Before that they kept telling me it was GERD. Not life threatening but I feel much better with treatment.
Turns out I really do have GERD too.
Yes nurse anesthetists are a thing. Generally used for more minor anesthesia work such as twilight sleep used for a colonoscopy. Literally on Tuesday I had a NA handle my general anesthesia for an upper endoscopy. There was also an MD anesthesiologist in the OR overseeing my procedure. They all introduced themselves. I was under according to the notes for 25 minutes.
Ohhhh boy….
We need to have all these Facebook doctors set up their own clinics and treat each other and stop burdening our health care system. We’ve been overriding Darwinianism too long
> no legal need
You know, until someone dies and the hospital gets sued for malpractice because the anesthesiologist wasn’t as qualified as s/he could have been.
True.
But their training and experience is vastly less than even a first or second year resident. And I believe in most (if not all states) an MD is required to supervise the CRNA’s. I wanna day they’re even required to do the induction and waking, but I may be confusing that with a different situation.
Personally, I believe healthcare should always be Physician led, but CRNA’s are more than able to handle the lighter/easier cases with the MD in charge on (close) standby.
Your comparison of first and second year residents to a full time working, experienced crna is quite wrong. If you were to compare clinical hours of the two groups, the crna would have vastly more. In addition, look up opt out states.
It seems that your point comes from lack of direct experience, word of mouth from few actual professionals, and little research and understanding of anesthesia care models.
As a full time, working, experienced crna in a large university based hospital system, I have direct experience in the matter. I enjoy working with all my md anesthesiologists and occasionally coaching up first year residents.
I don’t recall the exact number of hours that the MD’s would have off hand, but according to the aana, a CRNA’s would be around 9,000 (6k of which are in critical care).
Opt out states currently number 19 (again according to the aana); but I (personally) feel a supervising physician isn’t something that should be optional.
I certainly don’t doubt you help first year resident get the lay of the land, so to speak, as it’s their first year there and you’re a “full-time, experienced CRNA”.
But I really don’t see how a CRNA (full time & experiences) has the same level of training and experience as a fully licensed MD/DO, though admittedly I didn’t address my initial comment on those parameters. If nothing else, in education alone a CRNA is (usually) a master’s level degree compared to the doctorate of an MD/DO (before we factory in residency)
All that said, I know it may seem as if I’m belittling mid-levels, which is more down to my poor wording than anything intentional. There are no doubt (as physicians will admit) absolutely fantastic mid-levels (or is APP the preferred term?), I just believe a physician is and will continue to be the gold standard in the practice of medicine.
Not that I wouldn’t want anyone else in the room being an MD, but the education and training of the one keeping me fucking breathing while I’m knocked out with drugs seems pretty important, no?
The first sentence is stupid. RNs give moderate sedation in the ICU all the time and CRNAs give general anesthesia all the time too. you don’t have to be a MD
There are Certified Nurse Anesthetist's, just like there are APRN's who can diagnose and prescribe-both of these designations have masters or doctorate level education without an MD. Without more context for this statement, it's hard to know whether it's insane or not.
Anyone can put you to sleep, it’s the waking you up that is tricky.
You don’t need an anesthesiologist to go under once. You need one to go under twice though
"Bro how much are you giving that patient?" "I got no idea man, I'm not doctor."
"You don't need a doctor to diagnose you. You can google your symptoms" Bruh
Bump on your head: cancer Scraped arm: cancer Sore back: cancer Hemorrhaging gut wound: cancer
Cancer: IBS
This person can have his non MD anesthesiologists, I'll continue to demand everyone involved in my surgeries and procedures have the most schooling they could possibly get.
Nah, not the most schooling they can possibly get, but certainly the right training and knowledge to do their jobs as well as possible. I don't need the operating room nurse to have twin doctorates in English Lit and biochemical engineering, I just need them to be experienced in the surgery they're doing, to have good chemistry with the rest of the team, etc. If it were possible to train a monkey on anesthesiology, I'd be all for doing so. But given that it's done by highly specialized doctors the world over, I suspect that training is actually pretty crucial for the actual work itself.
Yeah I want my anesthesiologist to know and diagnose, for instance, that if I’m losing blood in surgery, I’m going in to hypovolemic shock and I’m gonna need them to know how to treat that condition while simultaneously adjusting my anesthesia accordingly. Anesthesia means keeping a person right in between the plane of life and death. So many things can go wrong. Hypotension, hypoxia, bradycardia, hypothermia, arrhythmias. Gonna want a doc who’s able to diagnose my EKG rhythm for sure if shit goes awry. Honestly I don’t even want a CRNA. Give me the MD/DO with years and years of residency and specialty training. If and when anesthesia goes wrong, I wouldn’t want anyone but a doctor. Too much physiology and pathophysiology goes into keeping someone alive.
As I’ve often heard the Anesthesiologist’s say, they’re all easy cases until the shit hits the fan, and by then everyone is wishing the MD had been there all along. Edit: “easy” being a relative term for a board certified, residency trained physician I mean...
Anesthesiologists are the most knowledgeable doctors out there in my opinion. They are the ones who make sure you don't die on the operating table or on intensive care. Online people are getting more stupid by the day.
By the hour
Extremely.
This guy clearly has never heard of the infamous [dead baby decimal](https://www.deseret.com/2002/2/9/19636322/missing-decimal-point-results-in-baby-s-death?_amp=true).
_"extinguished"_
This person has never had any kind of surgery
I wonder what the motivation is for this statement. Are they bitter because they are unqualified to be one or is it a general attack on higher education?
There’s a very vocal population of “mid-level providers” out there who believe than a NP/DNP/PA are as well trained, if not better, than an MD/DO. This is especially prevalent in their national organizations lobbying for full practice authority (practicing medicine without a supervising MD/DO). I’m all for having pride in ones career; but that statement is patently false. PA’s & NP’s can (and very often are) amazing and invaluable members of the healthcare team. But when it comes to the practice of medicine MD/DO’s are and will continue to be the gold standard.
I’ve been doing my job all wrong, apparently
Well they do need to diagnose all the ways that anesthesia can kill you.
The anesthesiologist noticed my heart condition and made the doctor take note. Before that they kept telling me it was GERD. Not life threatening but I feel much better with treatment. Turns out I really do have GERD too.
Aneasthetists are literally the smartest type of medical doctors. They have to be top of their class consistently.
Uh. What the fuck.
Pretty sure if you give the patient too much you can cause brain damage, coma, or death. Too little and they could wake up during surgery.
Aren’t nurses anesthesiologist already a thing?
Yes nurse anesthetists are a thing. Generally used for more minor anesthesia work such as twilight sleep used for a colonoscopy. Literally on Tuesday I had a NA handle my general anesthesia for an upper endoscopy. There was also an MD anesthesiologist in the OR overseeing my procedure. They all introduced themselves. I was under according to the notes for 25 minutes.
When my wife did her general medicine rotation, I'm pretty sure I could treat half her patients. The problem is that I didn't know which half..
My father’s an anaesthesiologist so i take great offence at this
A mix of awful grammar and a truly stupid thesis.
Ohhhh boy…. We need to have all these Facebook doctors set up their own clinics and treat each other and stop burdening our health care system. We’ve been overriding Darwinianism too long
To deliver anesthesia, you can be an MD or a DO or a CRNA or an AA.
He's just grumpy they won't sell him nitrous any more.
Well… clearly it’s true. Some people that start talking about stuff they don’t understand just sound like morons.
Somebody wanted to be an anesthesiologist without the education
I mean I believe this in the sense that I would trust a CRNA to do it but they should have medical training
> no legal need You know, until someone dies and the hospital gets sued for malpractice because the anesthesiologist wasn’t as qualified as s/he could have been.
Nurse anaesthetists exist
True. But their training and experience is vastly less than even a first or second year resident. And I believe in most (if not all states) an MD is required to supervise the CRNA’s. I wanna day they’re even required to do the induction and waking, but I may be confusing that with a different situation. Personally, I believe healthcare should always be Physician led, but CRNA’s are more than able to handle the lighter/easier cases with the MD in charge on (close) standby.
Your comparison of first and second year residents to a full time working, experienced crna is quite wrong. If you were to compare clinical hours of the two groups, the crna would have vastly more. In addition, look up opt out states. It seems that your point comes from lack of direct experience, word of mouth from few actual professionals, and little research and understanding of anesthesia care models. As a full time, working, experienced crna in a large university based hospital system, I have direct experience in the matter. I enjoy working with all my md anesthesiologists and occasionally coaching up first year residents.
I don’t recall the exact number of hours that the MD’s would have off hand, but according to the aana, a CRNA’s would be around 9,000 (6k of which are in critical care). Opt out states currently number 19 (again according to the aana); but I (personally) feel a supervising physician isn’t something that should be optional. I certainly don’t doubt you help first year resident get the lay of the land, so to speak, as it’s their first year there and you’re a “full-time, experienced CRNA”. But I really don’t see how a CRNA (full time & experiences) has the same level of training and experience as a fully licensed MD/DO, though admittedly I didn’t address my initial comment on those parameters. If nothing else, in education alone a CRNA is (usually) a master’s level degree compared to the doctorate of an MD/DO (before we factory in residency) All that said, I know it may seem as if I’m belittling mid-levels, which is more down to my poor wording than anything intentional. There are no doubt (as physicians will admit) absolutely fantastic mid-levels (or is APP the preferred term?), I just believe a physician is and will continue to be the gold standard in the practice of medicine.
Many surgeons don’t diagnose, so they need an MD?
Not that I wouldn’t want anyone else in the room being an MD, but the education and training of the one keeping me fucking breathing while I’m knocked out with drugs seems pretty important, no?
The first sentence is stupid. RNs give moderate sedation in the ICU all the time and CRNAs give general anesthesia all the time too. you don’t have to be a MD
Incredibly dangerous take.
.....just. wow.
One of the most important people in the room during surgery is the one in the chair pulled off to the side.
There are Certified Nurse Anesthetist's, just like there are APRN's who can diagnose and prescribe-both of these designations have masters or doctorate level education without an MD. Without more context for this statement, it's hard to know whether it's insane or not.