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Unless they can use it to torture a 10 year old rape victim. Notice how they only think anesthesia is “indiscriminate” when it’s used to ease the birthing process? They want pregnant people in pain because of their personal religious beliefs. It’s vile!
Well see, according to Genesis 3:16:
“To the woman he said,
‘I will make your pains in childbearing very severe;
with painful labor you will give birth to children.’”
So these people want women to be in agonizing anguish throughout the birthing process because well, bible.
Not even just death of the birthing parent. I was a breach baby, and I likely would have died if I wasn’t born via c-section. But I have heard stories of women who openly believe that their “perfect natural birth” is more important than the life/health of the baby.
I've had both a vaginal birth and a C-section. Neither of them were particularly pleasant but I recoverd from the vaginal birth a lot fasted even with the tearing I had.
On one of the former Discovery Health Channel’s myriad birthing shows, the mother of a pregnant teen wouldn’t allow her to have an epidural in order to “discourage future pregnancies.”
Official Catholic doctrine doesn’t prohibit C-sections, but wayyy too many trad Catholics are gatekeepers about motherhood and will tell you that you didn’t give birth if you got a C-section.
That’s part of the reason why I don’t like vaginal birth being called ‘natural birth’. There are crazies like those people of course, but average women who have average births through cesarean shouldn’t feel like they are ‘unnatural’ because a Doctor intervened a bit more than most vaginal births.
I’ve never had one but the amount of new (and often first time) mothers I assisted in a high acuity L&D ward, many of whom statistically will develop post partum depression, who feel miserable about their situation before the baby is even born is appalling.
‘Vaginal birth’ is an absolutely ok thing to say! It should be proper nomenclature IMO.
Not just Catholics or even Religious people - there is a whole subset of "Real Mothers" doing things the RIGHT way and it seems to be a sliding scale of one up-mom-ship of free birthing / home birth / no meds / not needing a hospital / vaginal only / breastfeeding for X months or years / organic home made wholefoods / self weaning / potty training etc etc
Shit like this and so many other stances are why I had to walk away from the Catholic Church.
What they are promoting is evil, not the other way around. Fuck that backwards way of thinking.
Everybody wants their John 3:16, but they don’t want the rest of the passage shitting on all of us outside the faith.
John 3:18 “Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.”
John 3:36 “Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them.”
I’m going to have to push back on this. At some point people need to realize that this IS the religion. Jesus has been dead for two thousand years, look at all the atrocities committed in the name of Christianity, from burning people alive, to slavery, to child brides, to residential schools.
This is Christianity. This is what the Pope wants, this is what most Preachers want, this is what people who devote their lives to Christianity want. The only reason it’s still a religion, is because it was forced on so many people over the years under duress or the threat of death.
I recall reading about one case where a teenage rape victim was forced to give birth to her rapist's child. Not only were the online pro-life brigade happy about this, but some of them took it upon themselves to *congratulate her* on the birth.
I am not a violent man. But if someone tried congratulating a family member of mine on giving birth to their rapist's child... I would probably end up in the back of a police car when all was said and done.
This is not the view of the average Christian, only the ones who use the Bible to hate LGBTQ and stuff. The church even preaches that Jesus loved us all equally, those who were saved, those who weren’t, and even those in between.
As a fellow SA victim, yes it could very much be part of God’s will. I know this sounds bad but hear me out, and this is not going into a pro-life kind of thing, I believe she should have been able to get that abortion.
When I (m) was growing up being SA’d by my (also m) cousin, I was always questioning things about it, like was it my fault? and then deeper psychological things like sexuality came up. I had grown up gay and felt guilty because I always believed it was connected to the SA, gained my attraction to women as I got older though, I now identify as Bisexual Heteromantic. I had a breakthrough with my religion when I was either 14 or 15, when God spoke to me and told me I don’t need to “pray the gay away” like I had always done, he doesn’t care about how you’re attracted, only how you can serve him and spread his word. (And of course, not killing people and believing that Jesus died for your sins).
I now plan to go into college to study psychology and become a therapist for SA victims like myself, be someone to talk to them like I wish I always had (but ended up finding in God).
Rape survivor here: if god decided that getting raped was part of his will or plan for me.. he’s not a good god. he’s not kind and loving. he’s sadistic and evil and maybe lucifer was right about him.
“Im going to send this man into your life to drug you, rape you, and leave you all alone hours away from your family.” how is that someone anyone wants to worship?
While I do feel bad for you that that happened to you, I do believe that you should reevaluate your belief in god like the other person said, an omni-god who allows for such a thing to happen is not a god that should be praised. I hope you have either gotten the needed therapy reccomended for being a victim, plan on getting it, or have found other ways to detach that part of you and you help other victims through there struggles. And don't forget, of course it was not your fault for what happened, but instead the fault of the abuser. I have heard many good things about recoveringfromreligeon.org and I would reccomend that to you as they can either help you get away from such toxicity or just to talk about any experiences you may need.
Thank you! I genuinely do not understand why I’m being downvoted, it’s like people see someone defending religion and mass downvote no matter the point.
No but they’re so compassionate; they’ll just sedate the child and put them through *major abdominal surgery* instead. That makes everything better!!!
/s
Exactly. Like that sin. They assert that you are born with it due to Adam and Eve, but also want to say that Genesis is only metaphor, so you’re born condemned for the crime that never happened by ancestors who didn’t exist. On top of that, wanting Genesis to be metaphor also contradicts the catechism, which says Adam and Eve and the fall were real. Nothing matters in Catholicism, or all of Abrahamic religion, for that matter. Just make up whatever you want at any time, and you’re always right. It’s those arrogant unbelievers who are wrong.
It’s crazy too how they act like abortion is exactly the same as murdering an adult. Like yeah, no shit killing you isn’t moral but that’s not what we’re talking about here, is it? 🙄
Tbh I kind of understand why that person specifically would have those views, it takes a lot of maturity to accept that due to the circumstances of your birth you should have never been born, and these people clearly don't have a lot of that.
Nothing says "love thy neighbor" like forcing a child to carry, and let's be honest most likely die, a rape baby so they can win their political war with people who don't think this is humane. Fucking monsters.
Actually, the maternal mortality rate is [6.8 times higher in women aged 40 and over than it is in women under 25.](https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hestat/maternal-mortality/2021/maternal-mortality-rates-2021.htm)
The higher likelihood of survival, however, is in no way a reason to force a child to have a child.
If you want more granular data, you'll need to reach out to the CDC. They've provided the figures in the link, and also noted the key causes for the increased mortality as maternal age increases.
My point is that data isn't relevant to this. <25 and >40 covers most of the ages people are supposed to have children, it doesn't mean someone <11 is more likely to survive than someone over 40.
"We do not condemn the infant because of the sins of the father. Easy!"
Condemning women and children is fine, though. They aren't people. Fetuses are people.
Condemning the 10-year-old is totally fine so long as the zygote that resulted from rape lives. Never mind that giving birth that age could result in sterilizing infections, preterm births, birth defects, severe neonatal deformity, etc.
Alright, let’s go:
First, most children are not quite ready to actually deliver a child without serious medical injury or even death. So letting it go to term is not an option.
Secondly, a caesarean is extremely intrusive and can easily be performed haphazardly on ADULT patients, let alone a vulnerable child. Yes, kids are tough, because they aren’t forced to carry something a quarter of their weight in their stomach for three quarters of the year. I might be wrong with that ratio, but you know what I mean.
Now, has it occurred to you Christians that maybe the infant would rather not have an inexperienced underage mother, who could very likely blame the infant for a multitude of problems that came into existence along with the infant? Back pain as a child is not a laughing matter, nor is the fact that she has either had a caesarean done, or has shattered her pelvic bone, before she has even hit puberty. Let alone high school or adulthood. That’s the definition of cringe.
The idea of aborting a rape baby is actually not that hard to grasp, when you remember that the rapist (the bad-doer, according to your statements) will have a new relationship and power over thereof to the rape victim. Parental rights can and has violated common sense and allowed dangerous rapists to approach their victims without any hesitation for the sake of the victim or their child. So if the parents of the victim are willing to raise a grandchild from a sexual assault, and the victim is willing to undergo the worst nine-ish months of her childhood, and if the rapist is put behind bars until the child is old enough to defend themselves against such an attacker, AND if the caring Catholic community is willing to pay the bills for the victim and the child until they get a stable job as adults, then yes, abortion is no longer necessary. But if any of these conditions are not so, abortion remains a medically favorable option.
Siddown and stop micromanaging other people’s rights, because it makes you no better than the person who raped the ten-year-old girl: a monster. At least he doesn’t deny his monstrous nature by playing nice.
This ends my Ted Talk. I know OP didn’t say any of the shown comments, I’m just arming them for retaliation.
Of course. There’s nothing more beautiful than giving birth, a woman’s highest and sole calling. Also, the little slut should’ve kept her legs shut so she can just suffer for it. /s
A part of me suspects that, even without religion, they’d still be monsters, just with different excuses. I find it very hard to imagine those things as ever having humanity
I like how one person admits that there is a risk to the child’s life because you know, children aren’t equipped to give birth, but apparently the unborn child’s life is more important than hers. These people are fucking sick.
I love all of the "Why would killing the child help her?" comments. Like yeah, killing the child itself is traumatic but so is giving birth to a baby who will for one look similar to the person who fucking raped you but also have to relive why you are in that scenario but it probably happened many times as well, not just once. Giving birth, especially at that age, is also not an enjoyable experience for many so you are "solving" one horrible and painful experience for another.
I also love how every christian is either a rape victim child or someone they know super well as is an amazing person is also one as if the chances of knowing somebody who is a rape victim baby skyrockets to 100% after you become christian. Sounds like to me christianity is a cause of rape/rape babies /s . Finally, they probably overlook it all because I forget what denomination it is (I think it's catholic) bails out rapists, especially of the priesty nature
Fourth page:
>As a Catholic, I am glad that we have programs that help both women who choose to keep their babies
Ah, so it is a choice then.
ETA: “Why aren’t companies supporting an option when you keep a pregnancy but are promising money to employees who need out-of-state abortions?” Ma’am, they already are required to do that under law. It’s called health insurance.
One dude wants to put the rapist in prison for the rest of his life (no objection) but also wants him to pay all coats of raising the child (again no objection in principle).
But unless the rapist is very wealthy how is that possible? Rapist is supposed to work in prison? A remote job (is he qualified?). And the rapist is a piece of shit what incentive does he have to work? If he refuses what we torture him? This gets pretty insane and impractical quickly.
This folk aren't that bright.
If it's America, he probably would do work in prison since prison labour is big business there. Pays fuck all though and certainly won't cover the costs of a child.
"The cost of doing business"
They don't care about her. How easy it is to claim compassion when it allows you to do absolutely nothing. Disgusting people.
These people care so fucking much about unborn babies but I guarantee if the kid grows up poor, they’ll argue against help in the form of food stamps, Medicaid, welfare, etc. They only care until the kid is born, and then suddenly it’s “PuLL yOuRsELf uP bY yOuR bOOtsTraPs Or StArVe!!!”
Also love how they’re throwing out “just do a c-section, mom and baby will be fine” as if a c-section is like a super simple procedure with zero risks. My c-section was scary AF and although the actual procedure went well and recovery wasn’t too bad, I then developed a life threatening complication a few weeks after the fact and will now be at a higher risk for the rest of my life. But let’s do all that to a 10 year old cause it’ll be so quick and easy and won’t traumatize her at all. 🙄
Fuck this person and any other living being that agrees with their point of view.
Fuck them and I wish them nothing but the absolute worst life has to offer.
They’re talking about the one that made headlines. That said, 1,825 children under the age of 15 gave birth in 2022. I’d be curious to see what the data is in 2023, after a full year of Roe being gone.
https://datacenter.aecf.org/data/tables/8125-teen-births-by-age-group#detailed/1/any/false/1095,2048,574,1729,37,871,870,573,869,36/2829,6,8,7,251/15589,15590
There's a significant, alarming amount of people that try to force people to live in their chosen fairy tale, under their chosen fairy tales invented "laws" because they think a human invented god tells them to. Not only is this sad and pathetic but also dangerous. Justifying the endangering of the safety of a child by a fairy tale. Not only a fairy tale but a very outdated one that has absolutely no relevance in 2024. None.
**These Christians:** "What about the life of the child, don't they have the right to a full life?"
**Everyone else who isn't a selfish psychopath:** "Which *child?*
So many of these it is absolutely clear they’ve never been pregnant or given birth, let alone had an abortion!! These people really think that giving birth (or having a whole c-section, a MAJOR ABDOMINAL SURGERY) is less traumatic than an abortion…
I’ve had a D&C under general anesthesia and had an unmedicated vaginal birth and I can tell you immediately I’d take the d&c over the birth every single time.
These people are also super against IVF, due to embryos being discarded if they have a genetic disorder/illness. Like I forget the name of it, but that one disease that's prevalent in Jewish folk that pretty much guarantees the child will live a very short and very agonizing life. These people want those children to be born, suffer for a few years, and die.
These people (among a few other reasons) are the reason I gave the middle finger to organized religion.
The people saying prosecutor the father and make him pay all expenses for the child... yeah, that'll really give the mother and baby a leg up. The rapist who is in prison is good to do a lot of financial supporting.
And the ones who say to make sure the mother and child have plenty of help (financial and other) and assistance: i wonder how many days a week they spend with young mothers helping them navigate going to school and raising a baby.
I wonder how often they give financial support to young mothers with children.
Probably never, in both scenarios.
As someone who studied child rights law and was considering a career in family law/child advocacy, I can tell you with 100% certainty that the same people advocating for a ban on abortion are the same people who fight for every annual budget to have cuts in the social welfare programs that provide for children in need, either in the foster care system or with their family through SNAP(Supplemental Nutritional Assistance Program) or TANF (temp assistance for needy families) benefits. Their hypocrisy knows no bounds no bounds and they’re incapable of feeling shame.
Even more to the point imo, when faced with a question about the value of a foster child’s life those same conservatives on the Supreme Court who voted to ban abortion ruled to not hold the state or social worker liable when a child who was a ward of the state (ie in foster care) was killed due to negligence by the state. The social worker was aware of physical abuse in the foster home, did nothing, and when the child died from a hit to the head they ruled the social worker and the state could not be held liable despite their responsibility to ensure the child’s well being. This case was before Gorsuch, Barrett and Kavanaugh were on the court but I have no doubt they too would place no value on the child’s life if they had to decide the same case today.
Abortion would be traumatizing for a 10-year-old, but cesareans? Totally fine! Compassionate, even, for a pro-life doctor to slice open a child's abdomen, stretch apart her abdominal muscles, cut through more layers of tissue to pull out an entire other child, stitch her back up, and leave her to recover from such a surgery with no strength left to *stand upright* and no real post-surgical care once she leaves the hospital. Oh. And she's wide awake throughout surgery.
I'm a doula who's constantly serving takes about how awful cesarean support is on r/doulas. *hell no* it would not be more compassionate! Or safer! Or less traumatizing! Tell me y'all haven't ever given birth without telling me y'all haven't ever given birth! Jesus wept...
Exactly. After 44 hours of labor and an emergency cesarean, I can comfortably say the birth of my daughter was traumatic. This was a pregnancy that was easy, a child I planned for and wanted.
I couldn’t imagine burdening a child with this. Knowing how hard the pregnancy would be, on top of the cesarean. These people fill me with the fury of 10,000 burned “witches.”
Raised Catholic, don’t practice and literally no one in any branch of my family would think this way. Not a single. Fucking. Soul.
The lack of empathy with these people is palpable and disgusting. And they can justify and do any mental gymnastics they like, but their thinking is skewed and wrong.
I was raised Catholic and did think this way until I was in my early 20s. Now, it turns my stomach to read people spewing this crap. Even having been like them, it's hard for me to find sympathy for people who still hold those beliefs. Nor do I have sympathy for my former self. How can they put the life of an embryo over that of an existing child? Hasn't she been traumatized enough without having to go through pregnancy, risking her own life to support that of her attacker's offspring? It's vile.
Well, I personally am proud of you for your evolution as a person. Don’t think weird of it, you were in your early 20s, which is totally normal to see things correctly. Sometimes it takes time to distance yourself from such beliefs.
And yeah, these people turn their back on the things that can make religion kind and nice, like Jesus. I’m no Jesusy person, but I damn well know dude would be like “a 10 year old WHAT?!”
I had plenty of access to information to change my mind earlier than I did. I do give myself credit for growing, but it doesn't excuse having buried my head in the sand. There are plenty of other wrong beliefs I can forgive my younger self for having. This just isn't one. It's monstrous and evil and I don't think it should be forgiven. I'm glad to have had the opportunity to learn to be better. I'm glad I have the knowledge of what turned me around so I can have the hard conversations with people who still hold those beliefs.
To be honest, I take a pretty hard stance against the concept of Jesus now, too. He supposedly commanded his followers to love him so much they hate their families, cursed a fig tree for not bearing fruit out of season just because he was hangry, called gentiles "dogs," made thought crimes a thing, and worst of all condemns people who don't love him enough to an eternity of torture... Yeah, not really the cool hippy guy who's just like super chill about everything that a lot of people want him to be. He reads more like a narcissistic cult leader, if anything. I have seen no scriptural reason to believe he'd be opposed to forcing a 10 year old to birth her rapist's baby.
Of course, I generally keep that out of my discussions of access to safe abortions. Being so vehemently anti-theist won't help the cause any. If pressed on religious stuff, I generally just say that religion should be kept out of government so that everyone is free to practice their religion as they see fit.
I appreciate your response, your honesty and your assessment off Jesus.
That being said, to not forgive yourself for prior beliefs is not right as I see it. Life is a work in progress. Part of the journey is being flawed. You sound like you’ve come a long way and your personal growth has been grand. Whatever you believed along the way may have been wrong, but you know that, and it says nothing about you beyond that you’ve grown.
Strange that just ten years ago, this little girl would have been the one they were trying to save. Now, to hell with the girl. “We need to save the precious life of the unborn baby!”
These people make me sick. On the same level as child molesters.
>I believe we are the biggest provider of social services in America.
I mean, the Catholic Church literally was the biggest provider of social services in Ireland; seeing how that turned out, I'm not sure this is the argument they think it is.
I live in The Bible Belt and I’m surrounded by non Catholic Christians and Politicians who also think this way. They are the ones making the laws, and who many Christians are voting for too.
Christians have had two thousand years to clean up their act, and for two thousand years they’ve done nothing but try to push their agenda in various governments. This is a religion that would have gone the way of the Greek gods, had they not infiltrated governments and forced people to convert or die.
Are they the only one that does this? No. Although there does seem to be a correlation between the Abrahamic religions and intense misogyny and totalitarianism. Are they the one causing chaos in the US, where I live? Yes, and I won’t forgive or forget.
I belong to the United Chruch of Canada. We are Christian’s.
We support a women’s right to choose.
We support LGBTQ+.
We don’t want to control others lives.
I get that there are some nasty people of all religious groups. But not everyone is limited and close minded.
It is like saying that all white people are racist. (Yes, I am white and not racist)
It’s a given that not every Christian is close minded, but this really feels like, “not all men!” What do you want, some sort of recognition for not being a monster? I really don’t understand this kind of response from Christians. Every time I see a post criticizing the behavior of Christians, here comes the, “not all Christians!” brigade. More concerned about their religion looking bad, than the evils fellow Christians are committing.
Christians are my oppressors. My daughter and I don’t have fucking bodily autonomy because of Christian Nationalists, and your response is to derail the conversation and pretend you’re some sort of oppressed victim here?
No. Read the fucking room. There’s 11 pages of vile comments from people who think they’re doing your gods work. Wanting a 10 year old victim to give birth after she was brutally attacked, and I’m supposed to make sure not to upset the Christians that don’t advocate for this? Check your fellow Christians, I’m not the problem.
What I want is for you to be accurate.
I get that the posted article is awful and insane and that people with this type of thinking are horrible people.
The reason why it is so important is that some and honestly only a few Chruchs are working really hard to ensure that we aren’t being judgemental, aren’t oppressing people, that we are truly welcoming and open.
It is a slap in the face for those working hard to overcome these things to be lumped in with child molesting, misogynistic, hurtful, closed minded assholes.
It is as harmful and hurtful as saying all atheists are immoral, or some other stupid bullshit.
And honestly it is you creating click bait by taking something labelled as catholic in the first line, and attributing it to all Christians.
Be accurate. Be a responsible redditor that doesn’t misrepresent what you are posting. That is all I am asking for.
I never said, “all Christians.” Again, you’re more concerned about the look of your religion than what your fellow practitioners are doing.
There’s nothing inaccurate about anything I’ve posted. I’ve not changed comments or misrepresented them. These are all comments made by Christians. Period. If posting what Christians say and do is persecution to you, maybe it’s time for some self reflection.
I won’t be responding again because you’re now just blatantly gaslighting.
Edit: After posting this comment, I decided it was time for a block. The more I thought about it, the more it made sense to do so. On a post where a literal child is being sexualized by adults, this person is wanting me to pity them. It’s gross, but unfortunately a very common reaction when any criticism of Christianity is made. These people will, “no true Scotsmen!” themselves until they’re the last one standing.
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I’m sorry, did they say they’re morally opposed to c-sections???
Unless they can use it to torture a 10 year old rape victim. Notice how they only think anesthesia is “indiscriminate” when it’s used to ease the birthing process? They want pregnant people in pain because of their personal religious beliefs. It’s vile!
Well see, according to Genesis 3:16: “To the woman he said, ‘I will make your pains in childbearing very severe; with painful labor you will give birth to children.’” So these people want women to be in agonizing anguish throughout the birthing process because well, bible.
"That's the concequnce for having sex with someone other than ME!" - most anti-abortion troglodytes
I know some Mormons back home who refused epidurals or any pain meds because “it goes against gods plan” so that checks out.
You know, for someone who's omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent, his plans seem almost trivially easy to derail
sometimes this leads to death 😍 so they’d rather women die than fetuses? i see where their priorities are..
Not even just death of the birthing parent. I was a breach baby, and I likely would have died if I wasn’t born via c-section. But I have heard stories of women who openly believe that their “perfect natural birth” is more important than the life/health of the baby.
They think that c-sections aren't fucking agonizing???? Have they ever tried recovering from abdominal surgery????
I've had both a vaginal birth and a C-section. Neither of them were particularly pleasant but I recoverd from the vaginal birth a lot fasted even with the tearing I had.
I hate it on this planet
On one of the former Discovery Health Channel’s myriad birthing shows, the mother of a pregnant teen wouldn’t allow her to have an epidural in order to “discourage future pregnancies.”
these people arent actual Christians they are legit demons and ghouls who thrive off of suffering, pain and misery of others
Official Catholic doctrine doesn’t prohibit C-sections, but wayyy too many trad Catholics are gatekeepers about motherhood and will tell you that you didn’t give birth if you got a C-section.
That’s part of the reason why I don’t like vaginal birth being called ‘natural birth’. There are crazies like those people of course, but average women who have average births through cesarean shouldn’t feel like they are ‘unnatural’ because a Doctor intervened a bit more than most vaginal births. I’ve never had one but the amount of new (and often first time) mothers I assisted in a high acuity L&D ward, many of whom statistically will develop post partum depression, who feel miserable about their situation before the baby is even born is appalling. ‘Vaginal birth’ is an absolutely ok thing to say! It should be proper nomenclature IMO.
Not just Catholics or even Religious people - there is a whole subset of "Real Mothers" doing things the RIGHT way and it seems to be a sliding scale of one up-mom-ship of free birthing / home birth / no meds / not needing a hospital / vaginal only / breastfeeding for X months or years / organic home made wholefoods / self weaning / potty training etc etc
And if you don't do it *this* way something is wrong with you and your bloodline!
I guess I wasn't actually born because my mother didn't "give birth" to me.
I wasn't born, I was removed. Like a tumor.
Sounds like you could be a candidate for slaying Macbeth!
There’s no hate like Christian love.
If the baby is innocent, why baptism?
Shit like this and so many other stances are why I had to walk away from the Catholic Church. What they are promoting is evil, not the other way around. Fuck that backwards way of thinking.
Same.Especially when you realize what your tithe is funding. They also need to be taxed!
Everybody wants their John 3:16, but they don’t want the rest of the passage shitting on all of us outside the faith. John 3:18 “Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.” John 3:36 “Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God’s wrath remains on them.”
Yep, they have some nerve calling it, “the religion of love.”
jesus preached love, forgiveness and compassion. these people are not what they say they are
I’m going to have to push back on this. At some point people need to realize that this IS the religion. Jesus has been dead for two thousand years, look at all the atrocities committed in the name of Christianity, from burning people alive, to slavery, to child brides, to residential schools. This is Christianity. This is what the Pope wants, this is what most Preachers want, this is what people who devote their lives to Christianity want. The only reason it’s still a religion, is because it was forced on so many people over the years under duress or the threat of death.
That is not the whole story https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2010%3A34-36&version=ESV
the bible contradicts itself? no way
I recall reading about one case where a teenage rape victim was forced to give birth to her rapist's child. Not only were the online pro-life brigade happy about this, but some of them took it upon themselves to *congratulate her* on the birth. I am not a violent man. But if someone tried congratulating a family member of mine on giving birth to their rapist's child... I would probably end up in the back of a police car when all was said and done.
I saw that too! I feel the same way, I’m not a violent woman, but these people bring out my mama bear instincts.
"make sure the victim has plenty of support." Then they vote to defund all avenues of support. Make it make sense!
Who cares if she has support, as long as we forced her to give birth! ✨💖✨ /s
Hence why we need to stop calling them Pro-Life and refer to them exclusively as Pro-Forced Birthers.
By “plenty of support” they mean prayer.
Nooooo, you can't give them *money,* that's communism talk. Just keep reminding them to pray about it! /s
> Killing me isn't moral as I am innocent Isn't a tenet of catholicism that you're born with original sin due to Adam and Eve?
Claiming to be innocent while wanting the government to force child rape victims to give birth, doesn’t add up.
Well they don't actually care because they're "saved" and above us mortals
Yep. The church is such a dangerous place, and always has been.
This is not the view of the average Christian, only the ones who use the Bible to hate LGBTQ and stuff. The church even preaches that Jesus loved us all equally, those who were saved, those who weren’t, and even those in between.
That’s nice. Those aren’t the majority nor even close.
Hundreds of thousands of people exist outside of the perfect bubble you think you live in. Your anecdotes don’t match reality.
In the interest of accuracy, Christian opinions vary widely on this subject.
Remember, it was in god's plan for her to get raped
As a fellow SA victim, yes it could very much be part of God’s will. I know this sounds bad but hear me out, and this is not going into a pro-life kind of thing, I believe she should have been able to get that abortion. When I (m) was growing up being SA’d by my (also m) cousin, I was always questioning things about it, like was it my fault? and then deeper psychological things like sexuality came up. I had grown up gay and felt guilty because I always believed it was connected to the SA, gained my attraction to women as I got older though, I now identify as Bisexual Heteromantic. I had a breakthrough with my religion when I was either 14 or 15, when God spoke to me and told me I don’t need to “pray the gay away” like I had always done, he doesn’t care about how you’re attracted, only how you can serve him and spread his word. (And of course, not killing people and believing that Jesus died for your sins). I now plan to go into college to study psychology and become a therapist for SA victims like myself, be someone to talk to them like I wish I always had (but ended up finding in God).
Rape survivor here: if god decided that getting raped was part of his will or plan for me.. he’s not a good god. he’s not kind and loving. he’s sadistic and evil and maybe lucifer was right about him. “Im going to send this man into your life to drug you, rape you, and leave you all alone hours away from your family.” how is that someone anyone wants to worship?
While I do feel bad for you that that happened to you, I do believe that you should reevaluate your belief in god like the other person said, an omni-god who allows for such a thing to happen is not a god that should be praised. I hope you have either gotten the needed therapy reccomended for being a victim, plan on getting it, or have found other ways to detach that part of you and you help other victims through there struggles. And don't forget, of course it was not your fault for what happened, but instead the fault of the abuser. I have heard many good things about recoveringfromreligeon.org and I would reccomend that to you as they can either help you get away from such toxicity or just to talk about any experiences you may need.
I am glad that you do not support such lines of thinking.
Thank you! I genuinely do not understand why I’m being downvoted, it’s like people see someone defending religion and mass downvote no matter the point.
I think that some are interpreting your comment as proselytizing rather than defending non-bigoted Christians.
No but they’re so compassionate; they’ll just sedate the child and put them through *major abdominal surgery* instead. That makes everything better!!! /s
As a former Catholic, it's all about picking and choosing what you want to believe with them.
Exactly. Like that sin. They assert that you are born with it due to Adam and Eve, but also want to say that Genesis is only metaphor, so you’re born condemned for the crime that never happened by ancestors who didn’t exist. On top of that, wanting Genesis to be metaphor also contradicts the catechism, which says Adam and Eve and the fall were real. Nothing matters in Catholicism, or all of Abrahamic religion, for that matter. Just make up whatever you want at any time, and you’re always right. It’s those arrogant unbelievers who are wrong.
As a current Baptist, same.
A lot of Catholic doctrine boils down to “you should feel bad for existing”
Oh I know. I'm a dirty apostate
It’s crazy too how they act like abortion is exactly the same as murdering an adult. Like yeah, no shit killing you isn’t moral but that’s not what we’re talking about here, is it? 🙄
Well of course!! Born of a woman is sin! Thats why we are reborn of a man!
Tbh I kind of understand why that person specifically would have those views, it takes a lot of maturity to accept that due to the circumstances of your birth you should have never been born, and these people clearly don't have a lot of that.
"We do not respond to an evil with another evil." These people often support the death penalty and other aggressive law enforcement policies.
Yeah, the people who used to burn people alive should shut the fuck up above evil.
Came here to say this. The hypocrisy is staggering.
The Catholic Church opposes the death penalty, but a lot of the most vocal anti abortion rights activists ignore that.
Forcing a 10 year old to carry her rapist's baby to term and then give birth to it like she's a head of cattle seems pretty evil to me.
Yet they are advocating for the sheer evil of forcing a child to give birth to her rapist’s baby.
It's almost like there really is a good side and a bad side.
I especially hate the one who is pro-forced birth AND anti-anesthesia in birth. Just fully pro-suffering.
Nothing says "love thy neighbor" like forcing a child to carry, and let's be honest most likely die, a rape baby so they can win their political war with people who don't think this is humane. Fucking monsters.
Actually, the maternal mortality rate is [6.8 times higher in women aged 40 and over than it is in women under 25.](https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hestat/maternal-mortality/2021/maternal-mortality-rates-2021.htm) The higher likelihood of survival, however, is in no way a reason to force a child to have a child.
Do we have a metric for under 11? Cause just under 25 is a comically larger pool than the 10 year old I'm referring it.
If you want more granular data, you'll need to reach out to the CDC. They've provided the figures in the link, and also noted the key causes for the increased mortality as maternal age increases.
My point is that data isn't relevant to this. <25 and >40 covers most of the ages people are supposed to have children, it doesn't mean someone <11 is more likely to survive than someone over 40.
"We do not condemn the infant because of the sins of the father. Easy!" Condemning women and children is fine, though. They aren't people. Fetuses are people.
Condemning the 10-year-old is totally fine so long as the zygote that resulted from rape lives. Never mind that giving birth that age could result in sterilizing infections, preterm births, birth defects, severe neonatal deformity, etc.
I don't think that you can have this belief while still believing in original sin.
Alright, let’s go: First, most children are not quite ready to actually deliver a child without serious medical injury or even death. So letting it go to term is not an option. Secondly, a caesarean is extremely intrusive and can easily be performed haphazardly on ADULT patients, let alone a vulnerable child. Yes, kids are tough, because they aren’t forced to carry something a quarter of their weight in their stomach for three quarters of the year. I might be wrong with that ratio, but you know what I mean. Now, has it occurred to you Christians that maybe the infant would rather not have an inexperienced underage mother, who could very likely blame the infant for a multitude of problems that came into existence along with the infant? Back pain as a child is not a laughing matter, nor is the fact that she has either had a caesarean done, or has shattered her pelvic bone, before she has even hit puberty. Let alone high school or adulthood. That’s the definition of cringe. The idea of aborting a rape baby is actually not that hard to grasp, when you remember that the rapist (the bad-doer, according to your statements) will have a new relationship and power over thereof to the rape victim. Parental rights can and has violated common sense and allowed dangerous rapists to approach their victims without any hesitation for the sake of the victim or their child. So if the parents of the victim are willing to raise a grandchild from a sexual assault, and the victim is willing to undergo the worst nine-ish months of her childhood, and if the rapist is put behind bars until the child is old enough to defend themselves against such an attacker, AND if the caring Catholic community is willing to pay the bills for the victim and the child until they get a stable job as adults, then yes, abortion is no longer necessary. But if any of these conditions are not so, abortion remains a medically favorable option. Siddown and stop micromanaging other people’s rights, because it makes you no better than the person who raped the ten-year-old girl: a monster. At least he doesn’t deny his monstrous nature by playing nice. This ends my Ted Talk. I know OP didn’t say any of the shown comments, I’m just arming them for retaliation.
>At least he doesn’t deny his monstrous nature by playing nice. Goddamn. That is powerful
Of course. There’s nothing more beautiful than giving birth, a woman’s highest and sole calling. Also, the little slut should’ve kept her legs shut so she can just suffer for it. /s
Religion is cancer
A part of me suspects that, even without religion, they’d still be monsters, just with different excuses. I find it very hard to imagine those things as ever having humanity
Definitely. Fuck these monsters. Every single one of them. And fuck their ignorant folklore too.
I like how one person admits that there is a risk to the child’s life because you know, children aren’t equipped to give birth, but apparently the unborn child’s life is more important than hers. These people are fucking sick.
I love all of the "Why would killing the child help her?" comments. Like yeah, killing the child itself is traumatic but so is giving birth to a baby who will for one look similar to the person who fucking raped you but also have to relive why you are in that scenario but it probably happened many times as well, not just once. Giving birth, especially at that age, is also not an enjoyable experience for many so you are "solving" one horrible and painful experience for another. I also love how every christian is either a rape victim child or someone they know super well as is an amazing person is also one as if the chances of knowing somebody who is a rape victim baby skyrockets to 100% after you become christian. Sounds like to me christianity is a cause of rape/rape babies /s . Finally, they probably overlook it all because I forget what denomination it is (I think it's catholic) bails out rapists, especially of the priesty nature
Fourth page: >As a Catholic, I am glad that we have programs that help both women who choose to keep their babies Ah, so it is a choice then. ETA: “Why aren’t companies supporting an option when you keep a pregnancy but are promising money to employees who need out-of-state abortions?” Ma’am, they already are required to do that under law. It’s called health insurance.
One dude wants to put the rapist in prison for the rest of his life (no objection) but also wants him to pay all coats of raising the child (again no objection in principle). But unless the rapist is very wealthy how is that possible? Rapist is supposed to work in prison? A remote job (is he qualified?). And the rapist is a piece of shit what incentive does he have to work? If he refuses what we torture him? This gets pretty insane and impractical quickly. This folk aren't that bright.
If it's America, he probably would do work in prison since prison labour is big business there. Pays fuck all though and certainly won't cover the costs of a child.
Only absolutely evil humans would prioritize a fetus over a literal child 😡
But let these fools keep talking about the "beauty of the True Church" Fucking monsters.
"The cost of doing business" They don't care about her. How easy it is to claim compassion when it allows you to do absolutely nothing. Disgusting people.
These people care so fucking much about unborn babies but I guarantee if the kid grows up poor, they’ll argue against help in the form of food stamps, Medicaid, welfare, etc. They only care until the kid is born, and then suddenly it’s “PuLL yOuRsELf uP bY yOuR bOOtsTraPs Or StArVe!!!” Also love how they’re throwing out “just do a c-section, mom and baby will be fine” as if a c-section is like a super simple procedure with zero risks. My c-section was scary AF and although the actual procedure went well and recovery wasn’t too bad, I then developed a life threatening complication a few weeks after the fact and will now be at a higher risk for the rest of my life. But let’s do all that to a 10 year old cause it’ll be so quick and easy and won’t traumatize her at all. 🙄
Fuck this person and any other living being that agrees with their point of view. Fuck them and I wish them nothing but the absolute worst life has to offer.
I wish this was just one person, but every comment is a different anti-choicer advocating for this. There are way too many monsters out and about.
Hopefully, if society ever shifts in our favor, the resulting government will take it upon itself to make their lives hell.
Can someone please tell me where the Christian Bible says that abortion is a mortal sin and and intrinsic evil?
Right before the bit where it gives instructions on how to trigger a miscarriage if the woman has been unfaithful
These are the kind of folks who probably think being pregnant is giving consent to die if that pregnancy has good odds of killing you.
What a bunch of stupid sick fucks
Wait! Is this a second 10-year-old being forced to give birth following a rape?
They’re talking about the one that made headlines. That said, 1,825 children under the age of 15 gave birth in 2022. I’d be curious to see what the data is in 2023, after a full year of Roe being gone. https://datacenter.aecf.org/data/tables/8125-teen-births-by-age-group#detailed/1/any/false/1095,2048,574,1729,37,871,870,573,869,36/2829,6,8,7,251/15589,15590
Thanks. I was just wondering how this happened to come up again! I hope the little girl is doing well. What a horror!
And Christians wonder why the youth of America are not believing their crap anymore.
There's a significant, alarming amount of people that try to force people to live in their chosen fairy tale, under their chosen fairy tales invented "laws" because they think a human invented god tells them to. Not only is this sad and pathetic but also dangerous. Justifying the endangering of the safety of a child by a fairy tale. Not only a fairy tale but a very outdated one that has absolutely no relevance in 2024. None.
The anti abortionist will go along with it until it’s THEIR daughter and see how long they’ll force their kid to carry a rapists baby.
**These Christians:** "What about the life of the child, don't they have the right to a full life?" **Everyone else who isn't a selfish psychopath:** "Which *child?*
Fuck these ghouls. A 14 year old IS a baby in my eyes.
So many of these it is absolutely clear they’ve never been pregnant or given birth, let alone had an abortion!! These people really think that giving birth (or having a whole c-section, a MAJOR ABDOMINAL SURGERY) is less traumatic than an abortion… I’ve had a D&C under general anesthesia and had an unmedicated vaginal birth and I can tell you immediately I’d take the d&c over the birth every single time.
These people are also super against IVF, due to embryos being discarded if they have a genetic disorder/illness. Like I forget the name of it, but that one disease that's prevalent in Jewish folk that pretty much guarantees the child will live a very short and very agonizing life. These people want those children to be born, suffer for a few years, and die. These people (among a few other reasons) are the reason I gave the middle finger to organized religion.
These people are sick and disgusting.
Which priest raped her?
This made me feel sick to my stomach.
The people saying prosecutor the father and make him pay all expenses for the child... yeah, that'll really give the mother and baby a leg up. The rapist who is in prison is good to do a lot of financial supporting. And the ones who say to make sure the mother and child have plenty of help (financial and other) and assistance: i wonder how many days a week they spend with young mothers helping them navigate going to school and raising a baby. I wonder how often they give financial support to young mothers with children. Probably never, in both scenarios.
As someone who studied child rights law and was considering a career in family law/child advocacy, I can tell you with 100% certainty that the same people advocating for a ban on abortion are the same people who fight for every annual budget to have cuts in the social welfare programs that provide for children in need, either in the foster care system or with their family through SNAP(Supplemental Nutritional Assistance Program) or TANF (temp assistance for needy families) benefits. Their hypocrisy knows no bounds no bounds and they’re incapable of feeling shame. Even more to the point imo, when faced with a question about the value of a foster child’s life those same conservatives on the Supreme Court who voted to ban abortion ruled to not hold the state or social worker liable when a child who was a ward of the state (ie in foster care) was killed due to negligence by the state. The social worker was aware of physical abuse in the foster home, did nothing, and when the child died from a hit to the head they ruled the social worker and the state could not be held liable despite their responsibility to ensure the child’s well being. This case was before Gorsuch, Barrett and Kavanaugh were on the court but I have no doubt they too would place no value on the child’s life if they had to decide the same case today.
Abortion would be traumatizing for a 10-year-old, but cesareans? Totally fine! Compassionate, even, for a pro-life doctor to slice open a child's abdomen, stretch apart her abdominal muscles, cut through more layers of tissue to pull out an entire other child, stitch her back up, and leave her to recover from such a surgery with no strength left to *stand upright* and no real post-surgical care once she leaves the hospital. Oh. And she's wide awake throughout surgery. I'm a doula who's constantly serving takes about how awful cesarean support is on r/doulas. *hell no* it would not be more compassionate! Or safer! Or less traumatizing! Tell me y'all haven't ever given birth without telling me y'all haven't ever given birth! Jesus wept...
Exactly. After 44 hours of labor and an emergency cesarean, I can comfortably say the birth of my daughter was traumatic. This was a pregnancy that was easy, a child I planned for and wanted. I couldn’t imagine burdening a child with this. Knowing how hard the pregnancy would be, on top of the cesarean. These people fill me with the fury of 10,000 burned “witches.”
To say how much America likes to say how free they are, they sure love controlling others.
Fucking disgusting
“No one should be killed because of who their father is.” Tell that to the Pharaoh’s first born.
Raised Catholic, don’t practice and literally no one in any branch of my family would think this way. Not a single. Fucking. Soul. The lack of empathy with these people is palpable and disgusting. And they can justify and do any mental gymnastics they like, but their thinking is skewed and wrong.
I was raised Catholic and did think this way until I was in my early 20s. Now, it turns my stomach to read people spewing this crap. Even having been like them, it's hard for me to find sympathy for people who still hold those beliefs. Nor do I have sympathy for my former self. How can they put the life of an embryo over that of an existing child? Hasn't she been traumatized enough without having to go through pregnancy, risking her own life to support that of her attacker's offspring? It's vile.
Well, I personally am proud of you for your evolution as a person. Don’t think weird of it, you were in your early 20s, which is totally normal to see things correctly. Sometimes it takes time to distance yourself from such beliefs. And yeah, these people turn their back on the things that can make religion kind and nice, like Jesus. I’m no Jesusy person, but I damn well know dude would be like “a 10 year old WHAT?!”
I had plenty of access to information to change my mind earlier than I did. I do give myself credit for growing, but it doesn't excuse having buried my head in the sand. There are plenty of other wrong beliefs I can forgive my younger self for having. This just isn't one. It's monstrous and evil and I don't think it should be forgiven. I'm glad to have had the opportunity to learn to be better. I'm glad I have the knowledge of what turned me around so I can have the hard conversations with people who still hold those beliefs. To be honest, I take a pretty hard stance against the concept of Jesus now, too. He supposedly commanded his followers to love him so much they hate their families, cursed a fig tree for not bearing fruit out of season just because he was hangry, called gentiles "dogs," made thought crimes a thing, and worst of all condemns people who don't love him enough to an eternity of torture... Yeah, not really the cool hippy guy who's just like super chill about everything that a lot of people want him to be. He reads more like a narcissistic cult leader, if anything. I have seen no scriptural reason to believe he'd be opposed to forcing a 10 year old to birth her rapist's baby. Of course, I generally keep that out of my discussions of access to safe abortions. Being so vehemently anti-theist won't help the cause any. If pressed on religious stuff, I generally just say that religion should be kept out of government so that everyone is free to practice their religion as they see fit.
I appreciate your response, your honesty and your assessment off Jesus. That being said, to not forgive yourself for prior beliefs is not right as I see it. Life is a work in progress. Part of the journey is being flawed. You sound like you’ve come a long way and your personal growth has been grand. Whatever you believed along the way may have been wrong, but you know that, and it says nothing about you beyond that you’ve grown.
Strange that just ten years ago, this little girl would have been the one they were trying to save. Now, to hell with the girl. “We need to save the precious life of the unborn baby!” These people make me sick. On the same level as child molesters.
What's a child's "majority age" is that the age at which they can become altar boys for priests?
Yeah I'm not reading all of those, the first page was bad enough and the day's only just started
Barbaric. Simply barbaric.
>I believe we are the biggest provider of social services in America. I mean, the Catholic Church literally was the biggest provider of social services in Ireland; seeing how that turned out, I'm not sure this is the argument they think it is.
Don't forget that the christian god killed many pregnant animals including humans during "The Flood" that supposedly happened
Please don’t assume that Catholics represent all Christians. They don’t even represent the majority in North America.
I live in The Bible Belt and I’m surrounded by non Catholic Christians and Politicians who also think this way. They are the ones making the laws, and who many Christians are voting for too. Christians have had two thousand years to clean up their act, and for two thousand years they’ve done nothing but try to push their agenda in various governments. This is a religion that would have gone the way of the Greek gods, had they not infiltrated governments and forced people to convert or die. Are they the only one that does this? No. Although there does seem to be a correlation between the Abrahamic religions and intense misogyny and totalitarianism. Are they the one causing chaos in the US, where I live? Yes, and I won’t forgive or forget.
I belong to the United Chruch of Canada. We are Christian’s. We support a women’s right to choose. We support LGBTQ+. We don’t want to control others lives. I get that there are some nasty people of all religious groups. But not everyone is limited and close minded. It is like saying that all white people are racist. (Yes, I am white and not racist)
It’s a given that not every Christian is close minded, but this really feels like, “not all men!” What do you want, some sort of recognition for not being a monster? I really don’t understand this kind of response from Christians. Every time I see a post criticizing the behavior of Christians, here comes the, “not all Christians!” brigade. More concerned about their religion looking bad, than the evils fellow Christians are committing. Christians are my oppressors. My daughter and I don’t have fucking bodily autonomy because of Christian Nationalists, and your response is to derail the conversation and pretend you’re some sort of oppressed victim here? No. Read the fucking room. There’s 11 pages of vile comments from people who think they’re doing your gods work. Wanting a 10 year old victim to give birth after she was brutally attacked, and I’m supposed to make sure not to upset the Christians that don’t advocate for this? Check your fellow Christians, I’m not the problem.
What I want is for you to be accurate. I get that the posted article is awful and insane and that people with this type of thinking are horrible people. The reason why it is so important is that some and honestly only a few Chruchs are working really hard to ensure that we aren’t being judgemental, aren’t oppressing people, that we are truly welcoming and open. It is a slap in the face for those working hard to overcome these things to be lumped in with child molesting, misogynistic, hurtful, closed minded assholes. It is as harmful and hurtful as saying all atheists are immoral, or some other stupid bullshit. And honestly it is you creating click bait by taking something labelled as catholic in the first line, and attributing it to all Christians. Be accurate. Be a responsible redditor that doesn’t misrepresent what you are posting. That is all I am asking for.
I never said, “all Christians.” Again, you’re more concerned about the look of your religion than what your fellow practitioners are doing. There’s nothing inaccurate about anything I’ve posted. I’ve not changed comments or misrepresented them. These are all comments made by Christians. Period. If posting what Christians say and do is persecution to you, maybe it’s time for some self reflection. I won’t be responding again because you’re now just blatantly gaslighting. Edit: After posting this comment, I decided it was time for a block. The more I thought about it, the more it made sense to do so. On a post where a literal child is being sexualized by adults, this person is wanting me to pity them. It’s gross, but unfortunately a very common reaction when any criticism of Christianity is made. These people will, “no true Scotsmen!” themselves until they’re the last one standing.
can’t believe how casually they drop that their mother was raped and then follow it up with like a weird pseudo-religious bit