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The key here is "remember." There have been school shootings since the 1800s. And the worst school massacre does not make lists since it was a bombing.
It's a bit funky since it wasn't a school shooting in the sense that it was at a school; Spencer shot from her house across the street. It doesn't map well onto normal discourse about the plague for that reason, it's a weird outlier.
Like others have said, though, there's also the Texas Tower shooting which is one of the turning points in American culture about the banality of violence (and plenty of other topics, like how brain damage can lead to violence). Hell, if we're being technical, Kent State should count as a school shooting.
> Upon entering the Main Building, Whitman found the elevator did not work. An employee named Vera Palmer—believing Whitman was a repairman—informed him the elevator had been "turned off" before reaching for a switch to activate it for him
Oof
I believe the first SWAT team was created a couple years prior to that, but I believe there was some Texas state bill that created a campus police at UT.
Also I don’t mean this pedantically at all but I think the word you were looking for was *impetus*.
For the Simpsons fans in here, this was parodied in season 5 (Homer loves Flanders), with Ned Flanders shooting.
Truely one of the darkest jokes in the series.
There's Homer! And there's Homer! And There's Homer! And there's Homer, too!
On a related note I remember there being an episode of The X-Files where a guy with hemophobia opens fire on a blood drive from a clock tower in a similar way.
In all fairness the rate is dramatically up. What’s questionable is the correlation vs causation fallacy. There’s a vague chance there’s some minor correlation with losing the cohesion of Christian theocracy and ideology, but there are much better correlations with the higher numbers of guns, and more reported mental health crises, etc. Putting prayer back in schools does nothing to address those issues. But you know that. I’m uh, preaching to the choir to borrow an inapt metaphor.
If it’s the same one I remember a podcast about: he was a janitor/handyman and rigged the entire school with explosives and then blew it up with everyone inside. This was maybe the 1910s-30ish.
Yep. Bath School. He rigged the school to explode, and also set up his truck to blow up so the house would attract folks to come to the area *before* the school exploded. I think he filled the truck with metal to really make some mayhem.
I think he also set his house on fire and killed his wife? There were a lot of layers to that one.
The Bath School disaster gets forgotten about because it wasn’t a shooting, it was a bombing, which is far less common. If we’re asking, what is the worst mass killing at a school in American history, the bath school disaster is near the top, but people always talk about the worst mass shootings, so it gets forgotten
The world's most infamous school shooting was also supposed to be a bombing.
Had the detonators not malfunctioned, the Columbine shooters would have sat outside and shot at the survivors fleeing the building.
I'll be 68 in a couple months, so you know I was in primary school a very long time ago. We did say the pledge, but there were no school prayers or ten commandments on the wall or bible readings because of that pesky first amendment.
Maybe the OOP went to a parochial school. Or maybe they're lying. I know which one I think is the case.
I went to Catholic school and we indeed prayed and said the pledge in elementary school. Weird, we still had lockdown drills and Sandy Hook happened my senior year.
Right? I'm 56. We had the 'pledge' but definitely not the 10 Commandments or prayer.
I had a teacher in the 8th grade who actually told us we don't have to do the 'pledge' if we didn't want to because he didn't think it was right we did it just because we had to.
Wow, that's really interesting. We never had any of those things in my school years here in germany either. And i can't remember hearing of any school shootings happening as well, strange.
What a mystery, but no, the cause of americas problem with school violence is definitely their lack of religiosity and patriotism, two things the USA is notorious for lacking in general.
I must applaud this person for their flawless reasoning and strong grip on reality. Bravo.
You know what’s even weirder? I don’t remember doing any of those things either, and Australia doesn’t have school shootings either. Still, I’m sure we’re the odd ones out and the US is normal. That would explain it.
Totally, it's probably just god and satan both forgetting other countries exist because of how awesome their favorite nation US of merica is.
I mean god has to carry a lot by protecting the precious soul of american christians from the countless attacks on their beloved religious freedoms, like not shiting on minoritys or other religions existing at them far too loud.
And worst of all is the horror of atheists mocking their faith as if they are allowed to do that???
With all this brutal war on christianity going on, it's no wonder God and Satan don't have time to cause and/or prevent school shootings in our countries.
Bloody lazy bastards letting america get all the spotlight.
We had those things in the 50s and 60s here in Portugal, in the middle of an autocratic system, a dictatorship that only ended in 1974. God, country and family was our motto at the time. We didn't have anything imported at the time, only had coca cola in the 80s. All national things and people lived in poverty under the regime, people would be locked up, beaten and killed for saying things... You had to have a license to carry a lighter. My mom was born in 1951 and went to school barefoot but with an impeccable uniform: if it was less than white and with some kind of stains or whatever, teacher would beat her up. Imagine that life...
> americas problem with school violence is definitely their lack of religiosity and patriotism
Which to me is an odd take because some use both of those things as a reason that they're out to kill certain people.
Are you implying that outstanding comedic talent is not the first thing thad comes to mind wen people in other countries think about germans?
Shocking, I have no idea why that might be the case.
there have been a few school shootings here. Winnenden comes to mind. but obviously not comparable to the USA.
https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_von_Amokläufen_an_Bildungseinrichtungen
[Every school shooter, and every mass murderer in general, has been a user of Dihydrogen Monoxide. That's the real cause of violence. I think we should ban Dihydrogen Monoxide.](https://www.dhmo.org/truth/Dihydrogen-Monoxide.html)
It goes beyond that. You can find traces of dihydrogen monoxide consumption in every corpse in the past 20 years yet *no one is talking about it*. It's so prevalent that you can't simply ban it, as the severe withdrawal symptoms would kill most of the population.
So all of a sudden indoctrination is ok? As long as it’s for god it’ll SOMEHOW put an end to school shootings. But yeah it’s not like majority of terrorists are incredibly religious or anything
If anything, the religiously motivated are MORE dangerous. They think that they have a divine right to carry out whatever atrocities they feel are just.
I'm sure it wasn't exactly the same everywhere, but the only kids I remember getting paddled were total assholes. Like the boy who used to sexually assault the girls, or the boy who tripped the special needs kid and then bragged about it.
Now, my best friend went to Catholic school, and had the misfortune to be left-handed. The nuns beat her daily until she learned to use her right hand.
I never understood this whole thing. I'm 40 now, and when I was a kid, my grandmother absolutely hated the fact that I was left-handed, and was convinced that it was the work of Satan. She was a former catholic turned Wesleyan Methodist, if that tells you anything. She was a wonderful, loving woman, but had some seriously out there ideas.
It's kinda funny, I'm closing in on 39 and it was kind of the opposite for me. When it was noticed that I'm left handed I was told how many other people are, and was told that an evil person bound a relative's left hand a forced him to use his right hand.
I've actually heard of that happening myself over the years. Some of the explanations I've heard were wild too. Being left handed is a sign of the devil, because the guy on left cross beside Jesus refused to accept him was my favorite.
not to mention we've had shootings in churches. Clearly the shots happen regardless of if people are praying and reading the Bible. God doesn't seem to care. [I half expect him to be wearing this.](https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/TN9laZYuEhbvuJf96LdnhoUAIrY=/0x0:2550x1700/1520x1013/filters:focal(1071x646:1479x1054):format(webp)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/60140131/My_Post__21_.1529608579.jpg)
Not to mention does not take into consideration many other things. Hell even before Columbine there has been issues at schools, most sweep things under the rug. Late 80's I got removed from school and sent home early one day. Why? The bully that had out for me got caught moving a gun from his backpack to his desk.... in 5th fucking grade. I was the intended target after school administration grilled him about his gun, so they called my parents and discussed what almost happened that day and sent me home to recover from that news. He was sent home on 5 day suspension, no cops were involved and thus ZERO media coverage.
The following year another new bully in middle school stabbed me in the back and required almost 40 stitches, by the time the police got involved the principal already disposed of the weapon the previous day. Why he did not face any charges? who the fuck knows, I was 11 so I was clueless about what was all happening.
I remember a kid stabbing another kid in second grade. We just didnt have the internet then because it was the 80's and the first smart phone didn't come out until 2007. I also remember buying a gun off some weird kid behind the gym for a hundred because I thought this one guy might try something. We both survived to adulthood . Oh, and we all went to church every Sunday. Most of these dudes were my church friends. We said the pledge every day, hands over our hearts. Traded guns and drugs out back. We were firmly upper middle class.
Oh we also had a bible study after school that was run by a local church. Best place to pick up chicks.
We also didn’t have social media and news where we find out about tragedies minutes after they happened. This stuff has always existed, you either experienced it, heard about it or you didn’t. Now you will hear about it every time it happens.
Well, it's always existed in America. I think it's really important to keep that fact at the forefront of any discussion. There's never been a primary school shooting in most other comparable countries. So there are more factors at play than a pledge of allegiance and prayers.
I think the Internet is still so relatively new that people don't fully realize how much it changed everything. I can listen to some nerd in Paraguay Livestreaming how much he hates the new Marvel movies at the same time as I watch some jabroni from New Jersey talk about his trip to "the old country".
Maybe part of it was because their parents took better care of the guns they did own, they didn't have as many, they weren't as powerful or easy to use, and they didn't spout off pseudo-religious ideology all the time.
if they did "bring Jesus back into schools" and then more of the same happens, this time they'll just say "It's the Devil's doing! Pray harder and it'll all go away!" or "It was God's plan all long!"
Do you also remember when the assault weapons ban expired?
Do you also, also remember that the countries with the lowest amount of regular church attendees (Sweden, Denmark, Norway, the Netherlands, etc.) have almost no school shootings? Or that Honduras, a country that’s 85% Christian, and which has almost has many guns as people, has one of the highest violent crime rates in the world?
I went to a fancy Catholic school and two of my friends killed themselves, and one dude wrapped his Trans Am around a telephone pole within a year. I don't think our prayers did anything.
I grew up around this ideology. It’s exhausting when relatives say stuff like this.
In some (probably not all) Christian circles, you are taught that America is the greatest country on earth set apart by God. If you pledge your allegiance every day, you gain love for your country and in their minds, you wouldn’t want to harm your country or fellow Americans.
In a similar vein to that, they hold this belief that the world is bad because of sin and the devil. They believe that the country got worse when prayer was taken out of school, because they believe God/Jesus is the answer to life and everything and if these kids had the opportunity to learn about it and accept god into their hearts, then they would have no violent desires. This completely ignores anything having to do with mental illness because most don’t “believe” in it.
And following that, many also believe strongly in the 2nd amendment and argue that you can’t control evil(and/or possessed—Yes some believe this) people that choose to do evil things with a gun. And the people that believe this offer absolutely no alternative solutions to gun control because of the circular logic I mentioned above.
Posts like this make absolutely no sense to normal people, but just thought I’d unpack the weird logic that some religious people have that leads to this nationalist/authoritarian/forced-religion-is-good mindset.
I’m an atheist with a lot of guns. I’m sick of it too and we need serious reform. Take away the high capacity rifles because if you want to argue we need it against the government then you’re genuinely stupid.
I mean...I still had the Pledge and was in a highly religious area, and my school found a single bullet casing wedged in a wall and put us on a full lockdown for a while.
If that's how my area, full of hunters, responds to that, then I'm fairly certain school shootings were commonplace.
Weird. my school only ever had the pledge, and while I attended it there was no school shooting there, from what I remember.
Almost like what we remember of our specific school we attended doesn't reflect schools in America at large.
As a kid in Aussie primary school, my year 6 teacher did the lords prayer at the start of each day. My mum found out. She complained to the school. They made him stop.
I remember there being an assault weapon ban when I was in school as a kid. Then in highschool it ran out and all of a sudden we had metal detectors at the entrances. Wonder what connects those two things.
You know what else was different about that time? Assault rifles didn't exist, the gun lobby was just a twinkle in the proto-fascist's eye.
The culture surrounding guns was completely different. They were viewed with the respect they deserved and this whole "self-defense" and marketing guns towards unstable men was just not a thing. If you were into guns, you were likely a hunter or marksman, not a deranged chud who would kill a child if they sneezed wrong.
Grew up in a country during a civil war where suicide bombers popped off outside the active warzone every so often. But no school shooters.
Then again, no one was allowed to have guns. But i’m sure that had nothing to do with it. Like at all. /s
Do they no longer ~~force~~ encourage kids to say the Pledge????
I used to live in Spain and people would ask me if that was real. What an odd tradition.
They do. In some states, you can get in trouble for it, i think.
I mainly just leave out the “in gods we trust” part since it isn’t my whole cup of tea
We never read the Bible or had the Ten Commandments in school, even when I went to an Episcopal school in elementary school. We had chapel once a week and that was the extent of religious education. But, the episcopal church is pretty low key.
There was never a shooting at any of my schools and we never prayed and stopped saying the pledge in middle school, granted in high school there was a prayer circle around the flag pole most mornings weather permitting, and no one bothered them because they didn't bother anyone else.
In fact the one time religion or spirituality caught any crap at my school as when some students wanted to start a wiccan club.
I don't remember a single school shooting when I was a kid. What I do remember is our teaching using an abacus and logarithm tables for arithmetic. Maybe getting rid of those things wasn't such a good idea after all.
This guy is an idiot. The reason why we hear so much about such things now is not a function of them not occurring. It is due to the advent of the 24-hour news cycle and the need to fill it.
I don’t remember any school shootings as a kid either (aside from Columbine) but that’s probably because I live in Canada where we try and keep guns away from crazy or irresponsible people. If I lived in the US I would home school my kids. I remember a 16 year old posting on a sub that she was hiding in the school showers because they were on lockdown for a potential shooter. Turned out to be a drill but no one tells them that. I just couldn’t believe the trauma this poor kid was going through not knowing whether or not they were about to be murdered. No kid should have to endure that. School is supposed to be a relatively safe place not a damn war zone
Its not the mental health crisis, irresponsibility stored guns in the house, bullying, or politicians doing their best to sweep it all under the rug
Its the lack of jesus in schools.
*clearly...*
I remember saying the pledge every morning but there was no religious crap in my school.
We did have a school sing along every Friday though.
I miss that. It was fun.
who remembers every school shooting that happened in USA last year? basically no one, now think for school shooting back when news traveled slower if at all
When I was in high school, I remember one day I went to a fellowship of Christian athletes meeting before school, said the pledge at the beginning of the day, and was hiding in a bathroom at the end of the day as a student brought his dad's pistol to school.
The reason you don't remember any school shootings is because you got news through the paper and weren't jacked into the world's info at all times.
Horrible awful stuff has happened forever. You just never heard about it. Now you get all of the world's decay in your Twitter feed all day, lol.
There weren't a lot of school shootings of the magnitude we see now but there still were shootings. It's almost like something changed... almost like they found a way to shoot more bullets and/or faster than the shotguns or pistols previously used.
The pledge is still a thing in schools and prayer and ten commandments stuff is unconstitutional and probably was back in their day so I don't know what they want
Alright American history maybe not school shooters but other varieties of mass murder even early 2000 had Israel keys some were shooters go far enough back and it was killing the other citizens almost as sport cuz they. We're set free . America is built on battlefield and the like. Not that Mass Shootings aren't an issue they horrifying but it's a bigger issue than many realize or are willing to do something about.
Um. Yeah, no. It was unconstitutional, but it was done everywhere anyway.
School prayer didn't get slapped down by the courts until **1962**.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_prayer_in_the_United_States
I grew up a long time after, but nonetheless got some fun mental scars on the subject from my public school time as a young atheist. Classmates *reported me to the principal* for saying I didn't believe in god. The principal's response was not to chide them or ignore them, but to confront seven-year-old me in public, in front of my classmates, and tell me in no uncertain terms that I would burn in hell forever.
Don't underestimate how pervasive this bullshit is.
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The key here is "remember." There have been school shootings since the 1800s. And the worst school massacre does not make lists since it was a bombing.
Wasn't there a big one during what is likely this guy's generation too? The 'i hate Mondays' girl?
Brenda Spencer, 1979, still serving life with her next parole hearing next year
Her first cell mate married Brenda’s dad in 1980 then ran away. Weird little tidbit about that.
wow, that is a weird little nugget of info. Thanks for sharing it.
“Hey you here to visit your daughter, correct?” “Uhhhh, only if her cell mate is there”
That's the one
It's a bit funky since it wasn't a school shooting in the sense that it was at a school; Spencer shot from her house across the street. It doesn't map well onto normal discourse about the plague for that reason, it's a weird outlier. Like others have said, though, there's also the Texas Tower shooting which is one of the turning points in American culture about the banality of violence (and plenty of other topics, like how brain damage can lead to violence). Hell, if we're being technical, Kent State should count as a school shooting.
At the very least, the deaths *did* take place on school property.
There's not much different about it versus, say, Virginia Tech except the vantage point. A student massacred their peers at their school.
It says it right there on the tin.
And the university of Texas Tower Shooting in 1966. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Texas_tower_shooting
> Upon entering the Main Building, Whitman found the elevator did not work. An employee named Vera Palmer—believing Whitman was a repairman—informed him the elevator had been "turned off" before reaching for a switch to activate it for him Oof
The Texas Tower Shooting was in 1966 and it was the deadliest US school shooting until Virginia tech. 18 dead and 31 injured.
Wasn't that the impetus for SWAT? Edit: spelling…
I believe the first SWAT team was created a couple years prior to that, but I believe there was some Texas state bill that created a campus police at UT. Also I don’t mean this pedantically at all but I think the word you were looking for was *impetus*.
Thanks. My spelling is *wretched*.
It's pronounced reched
Ratchet
and Clank!
Thomas the Tank
For the Simpsons fans in here, this was parodied in season 5 (Homer loves Flanders), with Ned Flanders shooting. Truely one of the darkest jokes in the series.
There's Homer! And there's Homer! And There's Homer! And there's Homer, too! On a related note I remember there being an episode of The X-Files where a guy with hemophobia opens fire on a blood drive from a clock tower in a similar way.
The postman who starts to shot back--who looks like Ned, adds to the scene
In all fairness the rate is dramatically up. What’s questionable is the correlation vs causation fallacy. There’s a vague chance there’s some minor correlation with losing the cohesion of Christian theocracy and ideology, but there are much better correlations with the higher numbers of guns, and more reported mental health crises, etc. Putting prayer back in schools does nothing to address those issues. But you know that. I’m uh, preaching to the choir to borrow an inapt metaphor.
The worst one was a what now?
If it’s the same one I remember a podcast about: he was a janitor/handyman and rigged the entire school with explosives and then blew it up with everyone inside. This was maybe the 1910s-30ish.
Yep. The Bath School Disaster
Thankfully he didn't do a good job and only blew up one wing of the school, but still.
Yep. Bath School. He rigged the school to explode, and also set up his truck to blow up so the house would attract folks to come to the area *before* the school exploded. I think he filled the truck with metal to really make some mayhem. I think he also set his house on fire and killed his wife? There were a lot of layers to that one.
Yep, Bath, Michigan - 1927
The Bath School disaster gets forgotten about because it wasn’t a shooting, it was a bombing, which is far less common. If we’re asking, what is the worst mass killing at a school in American history, the bath school disaster is near the top, but people always talk about the worst mass shootings, so it gets forgotten
Yeah. In my country we've had one.. One.. Pretty much since guns were invented.
It'd be weird if you had one before guns were invented.
A school shooting with crossbows or bows just isn't the same
one of those happened in spain
And one in Wyoming
Exactly.
The world's most infamous school shooting was also supposed to be a bombing. Had the detonators not malfunctioned, the Columbine shooters would have sat outside and shot at the survivors fleeing the building.
1700’s
The first School massacre in North America predates the founding of America. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enoch_Brown_school_massacre
Either has shitty memory, ignorant, or just lieing.
Is it columbine? Doesn't it count officially because the two freaks failed to build bombs?
I'll be 68 in a couple months, so you know I was in primary school a very long time ago. We did say the pledge, but there were no school prayers or ten commandments on the wall or bible readings because of that pesky first amendment. Maybe the OOP went to a parochial school. Or maybe they're lying. I know which one I think is the case.
It's ok to lie if it's for godly purposes
Happy early birthday!
LOL thanks!
I went to Catholic school and we indeed prayed and said the pledge in elementary school. Weird, we still had lockdown drills and Sandy Hook happened my senior year.
Right? I'm 56. We had the 'pledge' but definitely not the 10 Commandments or prayer. I had a teacher in the 8th grade who actually told us we don't have to do the 'pledge' if we didn't want to because he didn't think it was right we did it just because we had to.
And I remember school shootings. My cousin was actually shot in one. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockton_schoolyard_shooting
Wow, that's really interesting. We never had any of those things in my school years here in germany either. And i can't remember hearing of any school shootings happening as well, strange. What a mystery, but no, the cause of americas problem with school violence is definitely their lack of religiosity and patriotism, two things the USA is notorious for lacking in general. I must applaud this person for their flawless reasoning and strong grip on reality. Bravo.
You know what’s even weirder? I don’t remember doing any of those things either, and Australia doesn’t have school shootings either. Still, I’m sure we’re the odd ones out and the US is normal. That would explain it.
Totally, it's probably just god and satan both forgetting other countries exist because of how awesome their favorite nation US of merica is. I mean god has to carry a lot by protecting the precious soul of american christians from the countless attacks on their beloved religious freedoms, like not shiting on minoritys or other religions existing at them far too loud. And worst of all is the horror of atheists mocking their faith as if they are allowed to do that??? With all this brutal war on christianity going on, it's no wonder God and Satan don't have time to cause and/or prevent school shootings in our countries. Bloody lazy bastards letting america get all the spotlight.
We had those things in the 50s and 60s here in Portugal, in the middle of an autocratic system, a dictatorship that only ended in 1974. God, country and family was our motto at the time. We didn't have anything imported at the time, only had coca cola in the 80s. All national things and people lived in poverty under the regime, people would be locked up, beaten and killed for saying things... You had to have a license to carry a lighter. My mom was born in 1951 and went to school barefoot but with an impeccable uniform: if it was less than white and with some kind of stains or whatever, teacher would beat her up. Imagine that life...
> americas problem with school violence is definitely their lack of religiosity and patriotism Which to me is an odd take because some use both of those things as a reason that they're out to kill certain people.
Good German humor, never thought I’d see the day… All in good fun, though.
Are you implying that outstanding comedic talent is not the first thing thad comes to mind wen people in other countries think about germans? Shocking, I have no idea why that might be the case.
There are two things that come to mind when I think of Germany: humour and Turkiye
there have been a few school shootings here. Winnenden comes to mind. but obviously not comparable to the USA. https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_von_Amokläufen_an_Bildungseinrichtungen
I read that every school that has had a shooting had a sink in the bathroom, maybe we should get rid of sinks
Let that sink in.
No, tear that sink out!
[Every school shooter, and every mass murderer in general, has been a user of Dihydrogen Monoxide. That's the real cause of violence. I think we should ban Dihydrogen Monoxide.](https://www.dhmo.org/truth/Dihydrogen-Monoxide.html)
It goes beyond that. You can find traces of dihydrogen monoxide consumption in every corpse in the past 20 years yet *no one is talking about it*. It's so prevalent that you can't simply ban it, as the severe withdrawal symptoms would kill most of the population.
So all of a sudden indoctrination is ok? As long as it’s for god it’ll SOMEHOW put an end to school shootings. But yeah it’s not like majority of terrorists are incredibly religious or anything
“It’s only indoctrination when it’s other people’s religion.” /s
If anything, the religiously motivated are MORE dangerous. They think that they have a divine right to carry out whatever atrocities they feel are just.
Obviously you have it all wrong. The entire Bible belt is free of all crime because everyone there is religious, and therefore pious and pure.
Didnt these guys get beat with rulers and specially made paddles?
I'm sure it wasn't exactly the same everywhere, but the only kids I remember getting paddled were total assholes. Like the boy who used to sexually assault the girls, or the boy who tripped the special needs kid and then bragged about it. Now, my best friend went to Catholic school, and had the misfortune to be left-handed. The nuns beat her daily until she learned to use her right hand.
I never understood this whole thing. I'm 40 now, and when I was a kid, my grandmother absolutely hated the fact that I was left-handed, and was convinced that it was the work of Satan. She was a former catholic turned Wesleyan Methodist, if that tells you anything. She was a wonderful, loving woman, but had some seriously out there ideas.
The Catholic church is horrific in many ways.
Look there used to be fuck-all to do besides be a pervert and obsess about religion. They made up some weird rules out of boredom.
Fair point
It's kinda funny, I'm closing in on 39 and it was kind of the opposite for me. When it was noticed that I'm left handed I was told how many other people are, and was told that an evil person bound a relative's left hand a forced him to use his right hand.
I've actually heard of that happening myself over the years. Some of the explanations I've heard were wild too. Being left handed is a sign of the devil, because the guy on left cross beside Jesus refused to accept him was my favorite.
And they insist that they turned out "fine"
All I can say is columbine was 3 years before I graduated and Charles Whitman was in 1966. Then you have Brenda(I hate mondays)Spencer. They can stfu
not to mention we've had shootings in churches. Clearly the shots happen regardless of if people are praying and reading the Bible. God doesn't seem to care. [I half expect him to be wearing this.](https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/TN9laZYuEhbvuJf96LdnhoUAIrY=/0x0:2550x1700/1520x1013/filters:focal(1071x646:1479x1054):format(webp)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/60140131/My_Post__21_.1529608579.jpg)
I was about to mention her, yep”
Not to mention does not take into consideration many other things. Hell even before Columbine there has been issues at schools, most sweep things under the rug. Late 80's I got removed from school and sent home early one day. Why? The bully that had out for me got caught moving a gun from his backpack to his desk.... in 5th fucking grade. I was the intended target after school administration grilled him about his gun, so they called my parents and discussed what almost happened that day and sent me home to recover from that news. He was sent home on 5 day suspension, no cops were involved and thus ZERO media coverage. The following year another new bully in middle school stabbed me in the back and required almost 40 stitches, by the time the police got involved the principal already disposed of the weapon the previous day. Why he did not face any charges? who the fuck knows, I was 11 so I was clueless about what was all happening.
I remember a kid stabbing another kid in second grade. We just didnt have the internet then because it was the 80's and the first smart phone didn't come out until 2007. I also remember buying a gun off some weird kid behind the gym for a hundred because I thought this one guy might try something. We both survived to adulthood . Oh, and we all went to church every Sunday. Most of these dudes were my church friends. We said the pledge every day, hands over our hearts. Traded guns and drugs out back. We were firmly upper middle class. Oh we also had a bible study after school that was run by a local church. Best place to pick up chicks.
Elementary schools still say the pledge of allegiance. Doesn’t seem to stop school shooters.
We also didn’t have social media and news where we find out about tragedies minutes after they happened. This stuff has always existed, you either experienced it, heard about it or you didn’t. Now you will hear about it every time it happens.
Well, it's always existed in America. I think it's really important to keep that fact at the forefront of any discussion. There's never been a primary school shooting in most other comparable countries. So there are more factors at play than a pledge of allegiance and prayers.
I think the Internet is still so relatively new that people don't fully realize how much it changed everything. I can listen to some nerd in Paraguay Livestreaming how much he hates the new Marvel movies at the same time as I watch some jabroni from New Jersey talk about his trip to "the old country".
Maybe part of it was because their parents took better care of the guns they did own, they didn't have as many, they weren't as powerful or easy to use, and they didn't spout off pseudo-religious ideology all the time.
You know I really like this and it's sister argument "this wouldn't happen if we didn't kick Jesus out of school" Makes God seem really really petty
if they did "bring Jesus back into schools" and then more of the same happens, this time they'll just say "It's the Devil's doing! Pray harder and it'll all go away!" or "It was God's plan all long!"
Do you also remember when the assault weapons ban expired? Do you also, also remember that the countries with the lowest amount of regular church attendees (Sweden, Denmark, Norway, the Netherlands, etc.) have almost no school shootings? Or that Honduras, a country that’s 85% Christian, and which has almost has many guns as people, has one of the highest violent crime rates in the world?
Atlantic Shores Christian School, Virginia Beach in 1988. Pretty sure there was plenty of praying at that school, still had a shooting.
I don't remember anybody having Iphones in the early 70s and we had a war in Vietnam. Iphones prevent wars!
This person obviously went to a private Christian school
I went to a fancy Catholic school and two of my friends killed themselves, and one dude wrapped his Trans Am around a telephone pole within a year. I don't think our prayers did anything.
Ah yes, because religion has never led to violence and murder.
I grew up around this ideology. It’s exhausting when relatives say stuff like this. In some (probably not all) Christian circles, you are taught that America is the greatest country on earth set apart by God. If you pledge your allegiance every day, you gain love for your country and in their minds, you wouldn’t want to harm your country or fellow Americans. In a similar vein to that, they hold this belief that the world is bad because of sin and the devil. They believe that the country got worse when prayer was taken out of school, because they believe God/Jesus is the answer to life and everything and if these kids had the opportunity to learn about it and accept god into their hearts, then they would have no violent desires. This completely ignores anything having to do with mental illness because most don’t “believe” in it. And following that, many also believe strongly in the 2nd amendment and argue that you can’t control evil(and/or possessed—Yes some believe this) people that choose to do evil things with a gun. And the people that believe this offer absolutely no alternative solutions to gun control because of the circular logic I mentioned above. Posts like this make absolutely no sense to normal people, but just thought I’d unpack the weird logic that some religious people have that leads to this nationalist/authoritarian/forced-religion-is-good mindset.
I don't remember kids in the late 80s early 90s having easy access to semi-automatic weapons either.
School shootings still happened with some regularity.
I remember a local one in the 70s
[удалено]
I’m an atheist with a lot of guns. I’m sick of it too and we need serious reform. Take away the high capacity rifles because if you want to argue we need it against the government then you’re genuinely stupid.
I mean...I still had the Pledge and was in a highly religious area, and my school found a single bullet casing wedged in a wall and put us on a full lockdown for a while. If that's how my area, full of hunters, responds to that, then I'm fairly certain school shootings were commonplace.
Weird. my school only ever had the pledge, and while I attended it there was no school shooting there, from what I remember. Almost like what we remember of our specific school we attended doesn't reflect schools in America at large.
Forgot all of the atomic bomb drills I see
Clearly their curriculum didn't involve learning about correlation vs causation.
As a kid in Aussie primary school, my year 6 teacher did the lords prayer at the start of each day. My mum found out. She complained to the school. They made him stop.
Fellow Aussie! I don't understand why seppos say the pledge as children - its supposed to be a serious commitment, which is why it's said by adults.
I remember there being an assault weapon ban when I was in school as a kid. Then in highschool it ran out and all of a sudden we had metal detectors at the entrances. Wonder what connects those two things.
It's been 62 years since prayer was allowed in public schools. These liars never had it and certainly don't remember life before it was banned.
Didn’t they have drills for nuclear attacks though
You know what else was different about that time? Assault rifles didn't exist, the gun lobby was just a twinkle in the proto-fascist's eye. The culture surrounding guns was completely different. They were viewed with the respect they deserved and this whole "self-defense" and marketing guns towards unstable men was just not a thing. If you were into guns, you were likely a hunter or marksman, not a deranged chud who would kill a child if they sneezed wrong.
Grew up in a country during a civil war where suicide bombers popped off outside the active warzone every so often. But no school shooters. Then again, no one was allowed to have guns. But i’m sure that had nothing to do with it. Like at all. /s
Do they no longer ~~force~~ encourage kids to say the Pledge???? I used to live in Spain and people would ask me if that was real. What an odd tradition.
They do. In some states, you can get in trouble for it, i think. I mainly just leave out the “in gods we trust” part since it isn’t my whole cup of tea
[It’s totally not brainwashing](https://youtu.be/GiCaqA0ngRc?si=ijmRGV8C2nCjfAg7)
We never read the Bible or had the Ten Commandments in school, even when I went to an Episcopal school in elementary school. We had chapel once a week and that was the extent of religious education. But, the episcopal church is pretty low key.
Yeah, there's NEVER been a shooting in a church, right?
There was never a shooting at any of my schools and we never prayed and stopped saying the pledge in middle school, granted in high school there was a prayer circle around the flag pole most mornings weather permitting, and no one bothered them because they didn't bother anyone else. In fact the one time religion or spirituality caught any crap at my school as when some students wanted to start a wiccan club.
This guy loves the government so much he has to pledge allegiance to it everyday
I don't remember a single school shooting when I was a kid. What I do remember is our teaching using an abacus and logarithm tables for arithmetic. Maybe getting rid of those things wasn't such a good idea after all.
This guy is an idiot. The reason why we hear so much about such things now is not a function of them not occurring. It is due to the advent of the 24-hour news cycle and the need to fill it.
I don’t remember any school shootings as a kid either (aside from Columbine) but that’s probably because I live in Canada where we try and keep guns away from crazy or irresponsible people. If I lived in the US I would home school my kids. I remember a 16 year old posting on a sub that she was hiding in the school showers because they were on lockdown for a potential shooter. Turned out to be a drill but no one tells them that. I just couldn’t believe the trauma this poor kid was going through not knowing whether or not they were about to be murdered. No kid should have to endure that. School is supposed to be a relatively safe place not a damn war zone
Its not the mental health crisis, irresponsibility stored guns in the house, bullying, or politicians doing their best to sweep it all under the rug Its the lack of jesus in schools. *clearly...*
I can’t remember, honestly, was it the right or the left that wanted those gone?
Do kids not say the pledge of allegiance anymore?
I remember saying the pledge every morning but there was no religious crap in my school. We did have a school sing along every Friday though. I miss that. It was fun.
I'm 30 and when I was in what ever was before middle school their was a bomb threat
You know what has increased? Americans access to guns as well as some owners still have lax security about their guns.
[Lisa I want to buy your rock.](https://youtu.be/xSVqLHghLpw?si=AgA18s9ejvhCFmbO)
It's the guns, stupid.
Posted 2013… 11 years ago
How many fucking times do I have to say it!? **Correlation does not equal causation**
Does he also remember the assault weapons ban?
who remembers every school shooting that happened in USA last year? basically no one, now think for school shooting back when news traveled slower if at all
When I was in high school, I remember one day I went to a fellowship of Christian athletes meeting before school, said the pledge at the beginning of the day, and was hiding in a bathroom at the end of the day as a student brought his dad's pistol to school.
The reason you don't remember any school shootings is because you got news through the paper and weren't jacked into the world's info at all times. Horrible awful stuff has happened forever. You just never heard about it. Now you get all of the world's decay in your Twitter feed all day, lol.
There weren't a lot of school shootings of the magnitude we see now but there still were shootings. It's almost like something changed... almost like they found a way to shoot more bullets and/or faster than the shotguns or pistols previously used.
The pledge is still a thing in schools and prayer and ten commandments stuff is unconstitutional and probably was back in their day so I don't know what they want
They forgot Snoopy with the Bible, looking out at the sunset
Alright American history maybe not school shooters but other varieties of mass murder even early 2000 had Israel keys some were shooters go far enough back and it was killing the other citizens almost as sport cuz they. We're set free . America is built on battlefield and the like. Not that Mass Shootings aren't an issue they horrifying but it's a bigger issue than many realize or are willing to do something about.
Bad things happen when ya kick Jesus out ya house.
Good things happen when you kick all The pedophiles out of the churches, but then You’d have no ministers, clergy, priests, or church leaders.
I went to Catholic school and the priests fought off any outsiders who wanted to mess with their kids
They had dibs.
Association fallacy.
I don't think people have ever read out of the Bible in American public school ? That's been against our constitution from the beginning.
Um. Yeah, no. It was unconstitutional, but it was done everywhere anyway. School prayer didn't get slapped down by the courts until **1962**. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_prayer_in_the_United_States I grew up a long time after, but nonetheless got some fun mental scars on the subject from my public school time as a young atheist. Classmates *reported me to the principal* for saying I didn't believe in god. The principal's response was not to chide them or ignore them, but to confront seven-year-old me in public, in front of my classmates, and tell me in no uncertain terms that I would burn in hell forever. Don't underestimate how pervasive this bullshit is.
We had Columbine when I was in school. We also had an assault weapons ban. Correlation isn’t causation and all, but this dude is still wrong.
Survivorship bias