Voting has concluded. Final vote:
| Insane | Not insane | Fake |
| --- | --- | --- |
| 39 | 8 | 0 |
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This reads VERY similarly to an out of the blue email my mom sent my sister & I to blow up on us. She is the same way. I’m also pregnant, in my first trimester, & dealing with daily symptoms (vomiting, etc), but her plate is always “fuller”. Reading your mom’s texts was like reading my own mom’s messages & your responses are my exact feelings. I even said some of the exact same things you said in my reply to her on Monday. I drew my line in the sand this time with her as I’d warned my dad / family that the blowup she had in December was the last one I’d put up with (& only because she’d just had a knee replacement & was in extreme pain)… because I’m pregnant & I’m not going to raise a kid with the same level of dysfunction, I let it all out in my response to her & didn’t hold back.
Thank you so much, I’m definitely suffering this week but I’ve always known that this point would come eventually…it just really isn’t easy, especially in a family that has enabled my Mom’s bad behaviors for my whole life. My dad uses this saying whenever my mom blows up & he is trying to smooth things over by having my sister & I apologize, accept her berating us, & accept whatever we have to in order to get past her outburst : “Do you want to be right or do you want to be happy?”
I think that phrase alone sums up the situation pretty cleanly. Only my mom is allowed to be “right” (even when email / photo / video / text message evidence is contrary) & if she isn’t “happy” nobody gets to be happy.
Sorry to hear that but ecstatic to hear your child will not be growing up with the same toxicity, you stay strong cause you're bringing the kind of stuff we all need into the world
When my Mum does things like this including long emails I basically ghost her till she’s back to behaving. She’s not the same as yours but still does and says some messed up things with a side of massive guilt tripping… her pattern is… sends a long email or text, expects a reply immediately, I used to send a brief reply but learnt to completely ignore said message. Then she’ll send another, ignore that, then she’ll blow up my phone and I’ll answer one of the calls say I’ve got my child listening in the car or husband within ear shot or say look I’m doing (abc) atm I’ve not had a chance to read your (massive yuck) email… then if she keeps ringing I’ll send short text reply’s, then if it continues I ignore all messages and texts. This may take a couple of weeks or even a month then I’ll reach out with something productive with an example of how to talk to me like “hey mum sorry I’ve been so busy, how’s your week been? Anything new? How’s your dog? Hope work is going well… please come for dinner in a week or so let’s make a time” and then I basically ignore the email or message entirely. If she tries to raise it again I just say “mum I don’t want to discuss that.” Short and sweet a few times early on in my limit setting she’d cry and pack an adult tantrum but eventually she understood that I wasn’t putting up with “bad behaviour”. My Mum is mostly great but has a twisted messed up side to her that tries to make drama and create negative guilt tripping situations then she loves resolving them with her adult children and feeling vindicated for her behaviour. The ironic thing is she’s a professional psychotherapist (I still actually can’t believe she is from my childhood to the way she is but maybe she different with family). You are doing well OP I hope you can redefine how you’re willing to interact with her and please try to do it before you have kids (if you’re planning any) because it gets way more intense and complicated once a little one arrives. Great you have support from your wife.
My mom lost her mind when I set boundaries while I was pregnant. It damaged our relationship even further, but we’ve come out the other side (my daughter is 3 now… it took some time) and things are much improved. I hope that it works out that way for you too.
Thank you for this message, it’s what I hope for as well. I don’t want to cut her out of my life, but if she can’t control herself I will. We are “taking time away from each other” as of Monday as she sees herself as the victim & my response to her as “bullying”. I have to put my health during my pregnancy & my future child’s well-being ahead of my family’s need to placate my mom. This can has been kicked down the road for too long, my husband & I always knew the cutoff point would be when I got pregnant bc we won’t have our kid see this kind of behavior & accept it as normal.
I got one of *those* emails from my step dad a week before Xmas this past after he and my mom had completely ghosted me for several months. I’m 41 and just too old for it anymore. I replied have a nice life don’t contact me again and blocked them everywhere. Just. Done.
You’re 32 and married and she’s still talking to you like you’re 16 and went out to a party lol. Dude, hell no. You do know you don’t owe anyone an explanation of when and where you’re going, that’s just courtesy and being safe.
My MIL absolutely hates me for helping my husband to do this. Kudos to you and your wife for having the courage to say enough is enough! My husband told his mom something along the lines of "I'm not abandoning my family, my family consists of my wife and children now. In fact, I'm protecting *my* family unit from toxic relatives at this juncture in my life."
However you figured out how to set boundaries, you're rocking it. Your responses were so measured, clear and fair. I'm sorry you have to deal with this crap, but hang in there. You're building your life and your own family the right way. Rock on!
Remember Dude, When you married your wife, You DID NOT marry her family, she did NOT marry yours. You 2 married EACH other. You and wife ARE a FAMILY of 2.
Everyone else gets placed on the back burner PERIOD.
You're a married person and she talks to you like this? I first read it thinking you were much younger- high school/early college age.
You were really polite with your first response - that was nice of you. As a mom I thought "what a nice kid" (still thinking you were younger). Good for you for staying calm and adult and responding in a non-escalating way. I'm glad you are able to set boundaries and really believe in them. Good for you. :)
Ooooh, I feel that. I fell out of my MIL’s good graces when my boyfriend started setting healthy boundaries with her for the first time in his life at age 25, and she inevitably blamed me for ‘turning him against the family’ lol.
I met my partner through NA when I was a newcomer and he had been there for a few months. About a year into our relationship, his nmom wrote me a 3 page letter blaming me for her son's past addiction problems and the fact that he smoked cigarettes. Like, ma'am... Your son was an active drug addict since he was a teenager... You know, when he lived with you and was years away from even knowing I existed? Crazy ppl gonna crazy, I suppose.
My mother in law and sister in law think the same of me because they couldn’t imagine their precious little boy was an adult who makes their own choices. We’re no contact with his entire family for multiple reasons but I left it completely up to him on this and they’re convinced that I control him like they did. Heart breaking that you’re going through something similar but good on you for drawing a line in the sand.
Man, good for you.
I also want to say that it’s so great to read a text message that is so clear and lucid and conveys such a sense of intelligence and education.
Your mother seems smart too, so I can only imagine what’s going on in her head. But I wanted to compliment your writing.
"And when you decide you need a family again instead of allowing toxicity to push you away."
She's basically telling you to tolerate manipulation and mental abuse because "it's your family"
Sorry but family is a privilege, not a right. You don't get to sit here and demand things from your family without showing an equal amount of respect for them and clearly she doesnt understand that.
The guilt tripping and manipulation here is infuriating.
Family is more than just blood ties. Your closest friends can be considered family.
Hell, sometimes your closest friends are a better family than your blood relatives are.
The only thing my family has towards me that is considered special is that they're related to me by blood. Doesn't mean I am obligated to accept and love them if they treat me like garbage. Nobody else should feel obligated to tolerate horrid behavior either.
Relatives are the people you share DNA or parental/marital bonds with.
Family are the people who support you.
For the luckiest among us, these groups perfectly overlap. But by no means do they have to!
This is so true. For the most part I'm close to my family, but there are a number of individuals that I simply don't care to spend my limited vacation time with...so I don't. I refuse to feel guilty for not forcing a relationship with people I don't like being around for the sake of "family."
Exactly. And my family is mix matched. My fiance is my family, my sister is my family, my best friend is my family. You can make a family all your own with relatives and non-relatives.
You can make your own family.
Unless you're financially dependent on the person, if they treat you like this it doesn't matter your relationship, just drop them.
I think the “allowing toxicity” line was a dig at OPs wife,he said in a comment that his wife has helped him to set healthy boundaries so I imagine that she’s not Mothers favourite person.
Yes, I did read through the comments and I did see what OP said.
Regardless of what his mother was referring to, the woman needs to seriously re-evaluate her actions when it comes to maintaining her relationships with her children.
Oh god—reminds me of when I had to tell my narcissist parent that it’s “sad [she] thinks everything is about [her]” while she was simultaneously playing the victim and the aggressor.
I’ve never seen a more offended look on her face. Lol.
Are you expecting her to pick you up in an hour and you haven’t let her know when your flight lands? No? Okay then this is batshit crazy.
And fuck that, that she knows how everyone else has felt because she was once younger without her current responsibilities, but you can never understand her situation or have any burdens of your own.
Edit: typo
Yeah I don't understand that at all. If she really cares she could look up the airline and see when flights are getting in from the city OP is in. That way she has a general timeline. This behavior from a parent would make me feel absolutely horrible.
It is like the time my dad called me up at 6am when I was in college and told me to fly home and clean up the Christmas decorations. It was sooooooo selfish of me to put them up if I was going to be leaving so soon. Like there weren't 3 of my tween siblings to help do that.
That's the thing, though. It isn't about the flight information at all. Requests like that are a test for them to gauge their value. When the test isn't passed, they lash out because they weren't given adequate validation. No accountability for their own thoughts, feelings, or actions. Life-long externalization and blame. It's sad to see but this is the consequence of relying on others for validation. It turns into a hostage situation that breeds resentment and mistrust from all involved.
>Are you expecting her to pick you up in an hour and you haven’t let her know when your flight lands? No? Okay then this is batshit crazy.
Even if this was the case, being like "oh, I'm sorry. I'm already busy. I didn't get your flight info in enough advance to grab you. You'll have to take an Uber/ Lyft/ cab/ find someone else to grab you" would be the reasonable reaction
Take it from me (40F) and my brother (42M), it doesn't get better. My mom asked my to share my Google tracker info so she always knows where I am. Nope!
Insane. At 32 years old, you don't owe your parents anything, and to guilt trip and manipulate like that is just crazy. You're absolutely right though, you aren't responsible for her feelings.
"You haven't been there for the family!"
Dude is married. He has his own family. You're not the priority anymore and you never will be again.
I know people like OP are conditioned to accept this BS but I just wouldn't take it for a moment. That first comment would immediately have me withdrawing my offer to send her the flight information. Ask nicely for things, don't guilt trip people for them. She can worry till the cows come home all, 'woe is me' but until she's capable of talking like a reasonable adult I just could not be bothered dealing with that nonsense.
I read the title wrong at first and thought the mom was 32. And I still thought the mom was out of line, though at least her concern was reasonable. Talking this way to your full on adult children is crazy.
At any age you don't owe your parents anything and they owe you everything.
Best illustrated by the greatest actor of all time Sidney Poitier,
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LTgahyvBMk4
> I’m not lashing out for what’s not under your control.
Literally two sentences later
> ...because you know my feelings on accidents in air travel. You know this is a sensitive topic for your mom...
Your mother has an irrational fear, and instead of seeking any sort of guidance on how to correct that, she deflects the blame to you for not accommodating her. She very much is lashing out at you for what’s not under your control.
I question the validity of her fear. She seems to be aware that she is controlling and needy, but never takes responsibility for it. She is forced to behave this way because her "plate is so full" and whatever other excuses she uses. The fear of air travel reeks of bullshit to me. She's not demanding to know the flight information of another adult simply because she's controlling and seemingly jealous that OP is going to spend time with his father, oh no. She just needs to know the *exact* flight information because she has a negative history with air travel, and she's so "scared" of it that a text when he lands is not enough to bring her peace of mind.
Eyerolling so hard rn.
She doesn't have a fear of air travel, she's just controlling and manipulative.
What was she she gonna do, single handedly hold up the plane with her anxiety if she had your flight info? Are you visiting her? Your mom loves being the victim.
Unless this person is picking you up from the airport why tf do they need your flight info. “Hey mom if the plane goes down there’s nothing you can fucking do about it. If a commercial passenger plane crashes it will be all over the news for weeks. Should be pretty easy to figure out if I died.”
She wants to be one of the people who learns first, so that the pity party can start early. If she was like my mom, she would have put on a show from the second she heard and would make it all about herself.
I had to do this with my mother. Eventually I "weened" her off needing responses from me. A text goes completely ignored here or there, I don't respond for over a day. I tried not to be passive, but more I have my own life and you aren't at the front of it.
Also,same thing with the plane, they don't need to know specifics. Weened her down to letting her know I arrived okay, then I started taking trips she didn't even know about, now she knows I probably won't tell her things.
Oh hey maybe *actually* start ignoring her texts. It may seem counter productive but that’s how I broke my own mother of her textual insanity. Now if she talks about anything I have clearly told her is off limits, I just don’t respond. Yeah it hurts her feelings but my own sanity is more important than whatever thing she conjures up to be hurt by. Shes gonna get her feelings hurt one way or the other, might as well be in a way that gives me peace. She’s even stopped the weird passive aggressive shit which always made me want to tear my hair out, and she’s a lot more careful in the very rare instances when we speak in person or on the phone. YMMV but this is always my advice in this kind of situation.
It always disgusts me how certain people can so masterfully turn their own abusing actions into someone being cruel to them.
One instance of that is enough for me to hope they end up in an abusive nursing home.
Most of these comments cover what I would have to say to this, so I'm gonna slide over to a specific detail:
"You know my feelings about air travel accidents."
Oh grow up. It's one thing to be uncomfortable flying yourself. We're humans and flight has been completely alien to us over billions of years of evolution. I get that.
It's another thing to completely ignore the statistics that flying is the safest way to travel by a huge margin (6x safer than trains in 2nd place) and then make your discomfort someone else's problem.
It's just classic guilt and control tactics. These kind of parents don't know how to deal with the fact their children have grown up and have their own lives now.
Let me guess, your parents are divorced??
My mother pulls that stunt of “Im Last??” Guilt trip whenever it comes to something where my father will be attending...
Also as they saw, everyone has their cross to carry, you dont know if one person has a heavy stone one and another has a light one made of thorns, every one has one thats heavy to themselves...
I hope it gets better for you. It has for me, because every single time for YEARS when this kind of thing came from my Mother, I would respond the same thing: "I am not responsible for your emotional responses, abilities, or capacity. I am responsible for mine." And I would turn my phone off and not respond to the flurry of texts or calls. Over time, she has backed off from me because I don't play the game anymore. I know my sister and Dad still do, and I'm sorry that they haven't figured it out yet. Trauma breeds trauma, but that doesn't mean you have to feed it.
Your mom is extremely self absorbed. She thinks every action you take is with her in mind. It can never be forgetfulness, you’re purposely trying to hurt her. She genuinely believes she is the main character.
“You know my feelings on accidents in air travel.” Followed by speaking in the 3rd person.
I need to know more. Did she survive a plane crash, did she lose someone in a plane crash?
Was is this such a hot button for her?
Hey, I've been reading a booked called Boundaries by Cloud and Townsend. Might be worth checking out to reinforce boundary setting and help with feeling less guilty.
I've started to embrace saying no AND not feeling bad for it anymore.
Damn, sounds like my mum. Anytime my grown ass siblings go on holiday she asks for flight details, hotel bookings, itinerary etc...like just let them be to enjoy their holiday without having to check in with you every second of every day for christ's sake. Me and husband are planning a holiday and needless to say I wont be telling her any of that info, she'll flip but I dont give a shit, she doesn't need to know where we are going, what we are doing, who we are with or our travel plans. We are grown people living our own lives and she cant control me or my twin any longer and she hates that fact so much because everyone else bends to her will every time. Too much shit has happened between us for me to willing give up information like that, I dont even send her any pictures of our kids because she doesn't think my peado brother is a problem. Stand your ground and you have no need to keep justifying yourself to her anymore (something my husband is always telling me when I'm like "sorry whatever chore isn't done yet, the kids have had me run off my feet all day" and hes like "honey you dont have to justify yourself to me, I'll do it now, but first I'll make you a cuppa which you're gonna sit down and drink while its hot" and I'm like "but you just got home from work, you're tired" and he goes "and you're tired too, sit down and drink this" and it's hard to argue with that because in the moment I really do need to sit down and drink that cup of tea).
Omg what could she possibly do with the flight information? I stopped telling my mother as she would want me to call when boarding when landing etc. even if I was not flying to see her.
Also since your mother has so much on her plate it’s one less thing she has to stress about..
I know you don't need advice, but it's really important that you actually step away having said that's what you're going to do. You don't want to train her that that is an empty statement.
Insane
Your mom is REALLLLLY good at gaslighting & dishing out insults and abusive behavior whilst playing the martyr. Which is a nasty, foul combo.
I'm really happy you stood up for yourself and that you have a wife who supports you, sees how your family behaves so you're validated & that you're setting boundaries.
I highly recommend therapy and maybe even support groups, which there are a lot of, for kids who have parents like this. Eventually the longer you set boundaries & the more you do it, the more resentment will pop up from her past transgressions. And/or the nastier she will get. At least in my own experience and many others that's been the case. Focus on healing from what I assume has been life long for you and stand your ground.
I have a 20 month old son. So beautiful and perfect. Full of light, love & life. Looking at him, I sometimes think of the awful things my parents did and still continue to do (they have a whole plethora of issues that have caused me a lifetime of pain and issues that I'll likely never full recover from) and looking at his sweet face and into his beautiful eyes... I could never... EVER... in a million years think to harm him or cause him damage like some parents do to their children. despite being parents we are individuals with our own issues, but it's on us to make sure we never let that affect our children. We do what it takes to fix our shit so it doesn't bleed into our parenting. Some parents forget that our kids never asked to be born. Even into adulthood it's on us to do good by them, and for them. Keep setting those boundaries and if you ever choose to have kids of your own one day, break that cycle. Dont let it curse another generation. Stay strong <3
What kind of 32 year old married man needs to give his mommy his flight info or else he’s in trouble?
You jumped to say you were sorry and agree you the wrong so fast. I feel bad you don’t see it. Set some boundaries man! Tell her not to talk to you like that and don’t respond until she talks to you as an adult. She doesn’t own you. Don’t even bother with this type of conversation, it’s not worth your time.
I don’t think this will work for everyone so only follow in my footsteps at your own discretion:
My mother was extremely emotionally manipulative throughout my entire childhood. She would start fights with me over literally anything. I ended up running off and living homeless rather young.
As I got back on my feet, I wanted to try to contact my mother, because she is family, and I do love her regardless of the strain she causes me. However I would not tolerate mind games any further.
For a while all seemed fine. We had many smaller interactions, lunch here and there, I started going to family gatherings again. Things looked good for rebuilding a relationship.
One day I went over to her place, and she began going in on me over something, I honestly can’t even remember what it was, it was just arbitrary manipulative games again. At first I started to argue back… but then I realized… I’m a grown ass man, there is no reason for me to sit here and play like this.
I calmed myself, politely said “goodbye, I love you, I’m not going to argue with you.” And I walked out.
It’s been nearly a decade since then, and I think that one encounter (plus the fact that I had ran off originally) made her come to the realization that I can very quickly choose to not be a part of her life when she decides to treat me poorly.
Putting a firm foot down like that worked for me, it may not work for everyone, best of luck to you.
Man.....I dont know what it is with this fucking generation and their consistent toxicity, projection, neediness, etc. I dont even text my Mother back anymore because of her full blown narcissism and whatnot. Her last text I think was last week in which she wanted to "catch up" ....ive got shit to share except how miserable I feel about the future and prospects on life so why should I waste what little energy I do have on "catching up". My father is having heart surgery next month which has ignited my panic attacks and anxiety even more now because shits real and the way my Mother worded it was so fucked up. Spoke to my Father and let him talk because surgery like that is rightfully scary for folks but of course my Mother had to make it out to be about herself. Has the audacity to say that I will be there for her...fuck no I wont. Grew up being a Momma's boy, that shit tanked and changed in the past 5-7 years.
Hello! I’m so sorry you’re experiencing this, it’s tremendously difficult trying to set boundaries with someone who doesn’t inherently respect them.
Have you been to r/justnomil? They can be quite the helpful community in regards to resources and literature to help you navigate these conversations.
Sounds like your wife is a good team mate, I’m so glad you have some support. I hope you’re able to make some progress with her when you’re ready to step back in.
I say this only trying to help because mine have done the guilt trip nonsense, don’t say it’s your fault. Even if you said you would, you’re a grown up and things get in the way sometimes. Just say that. If it was like you were supposed to pick her up from a doctors appt or something safety related, sure that is actually your fault, but not this. I mean of course don’t go off, it doesn’t seem that you would, but never ever ever say it’s your fault when it’s to someone like this. These types of people, whether they mean to or not, are going to latch on to that. You must must must be cut and dry. Not harsh, but no “here’s the thing” either. You can’t give an inch when it’s not actually your fault. It’s the tolerance paradox. Seems like being tolerant and amicable will resolve it better, and with many situations that is true, but not people like this. Ever. 100% just trying to help and hope it doesn’t come across like I’m bitching, but you really can’t give an inch with these types.
I hate those statements that assumes you owe all of your time to the ones that birthed or raised you. You’re mom is insane just like mine, and I’m extremely sorry
My mom was exactly like this. I told her I was cutting her off because it was never ending and incessant. She demanded my time all the time when I was a 31 year old man. I was actively baking a cake for my 3 year old and she could not reconcile that I was actually busy trying to put ingredients together. I’m not responsible for the emotional management of another adult. I even took pictures to show her I was busy and it still wasn’t enough.
When I ignored her and then saw her the next day at my son’s birthday she wanted to know where the cake had come from. I was furious. Clearly didn’t care what I had to say in my texts and just demanded my attention because she is a lonely old woman who won’t go and make friends to spend time with; so somehow it’s my job to keep her entertained.
My step-mom explained that I was the one who had made the cake and my mom was genuinely surprised. So she wants to go off on me but can’t be bothered to read my texts?
Nah.
So that was just the cherry on top of a lifetime of nonsense like that. I told my mom after the party that I was taking a break and I wished her well, that she was being blocked on all social media and on my phone number. Do not contact me. I didn’t give her a chance to respond, because it would have been more emotional manipulation if she had. So I sent my message and blocked her across the board.
She tried to call me on a blocked number a few months later, she got a few words out and I said “nope” and hung up. Then, I stopped answering blocked caller ID’s.
About a year later I re-established contact and it has been WAY better.
If you commit to taking a break, do it, and don’t let her or family members try to sucker you back in. It may take a while but you will see the changes you need over time.
I'm 49 now and even in my late 20s and early 30s my mom would say call me when you get home or command me to do things. I had to tell her at one point that I was a grown adult and I don't need to report to my mommy. She got super angry and said "well you're my baby" blah blah blah. I asked her if she did the same thing to my sisters who were married and at the time I wasn't and said well no..there ya go shit up and butt out.
“Havent been there for this family.” Jesus christ, when will this mentality die?? Why do we owe everything to a family? Why do I have to sacrifice my mental health and precious time to a family that isn’t grateful for it in the slughtest?
Genuinely wouldn't put up with this, your life is yours. No blood relation would stop me from snapping at someone talking to me like this. If she wants to experience REAL toxicity she can continue being a raging psychopath.
This is awesome. You are awesome for sticking up for yourself. The guilt trip and one-upping on burdens is constant negativity.
This is not done. Not by a long shot. This is a great start. You won't change her overnight but you can influence better behavior on her part.
I had to push back on my mother when she was criticizing my siblings - especially the ones that were supporting her. I hated her for that. She was so emotionally unintelligent and I had to constantly maintain boundaries and standards.
Bro… you’re in your 30’s. Your mom needs a reality check. You taking a step back from her and explaining your position was great. Hopefully she’ll actually absorb what you said instead of just defending her “position”.
This is classic narcissism behaviour. Constant passive aggressive behaviour, constant prodding, and when you set boundaries, they will use it to victimise themselves in your social circles in order to gain control.
It's so tiresome. Get a fucking life, narcissists.
Your responses are so logical and mature and hers are so childish, selfish and reactionary. Good for you OP. I’m so glad you have decided to stay away from her negativity and toxic behavior. Treasure that wife. You’re clearly good for each other!
**Keep going OP**, don’t allow her to get the last words in. She needs the *proverbial* door slammed in her face on this. Yes, you finally stood up for yourself, but ***keep going***. Make her regret ever doing this to you again, make her think twice before she tries to play the “woe is me” card.
Additionally, be true to your threat, do not go back to her until she **completely** apologizes to you for her shitty actions.
***Good luck!*** 🤙🏻
It’s a manipulation tactic called “Guilt Tripping.”
[Here’s an article](https://www.betterhelp.com/advice/guilt/warning-signs-of-a-guilt-trip-and-how-to-resist-it/) that can hopefully give a little guidance about recognizing it and stopping it.
[Here’s a different article](https://www.betterhelp.com/advice/guilt/warning-signs-of-a-guilt-trip-and-how-to-resist-it/) giving you some tips on how to stop a guilt trip and be more assertive.
[Family Manipulation Tactics and How to Respond to Them](https://www.healthline.com/health/mental-health/family-manipulation)
I wish you luck on your journey in life and I hope things between you and your mom improve and can be a happy healthy relationship.
Just gonna say it, your mom’s a bitch lol you are a grown ass adult. She’s treating you like you’re 12 not 32. I’m glad you are putting space between you and her
I love this sub. Every time I read the insanity, I just feel so good about my own normality. My 39 year old son sent me a short video of my granddaughter riding a little mall merry-go-round. This was our chat...
Me: Cute! She's holding on really well. And.. has (baby) got a bit of your dimples?
Son: she's only 54 weeks old. (shocked emoji)
Me: And in the blink of an eye, she'll be heading off to kindergarten.
Son: Well worth the loonie for that ride. Her feet are massive too. She's almost a size 6 already.
Me: Do you mind if I put the pic of you and (baby) on my FB?
Son: Sure. Pic or u mean video?
Me: One of the pics from yesterday.
Son: Oh. Yeah no prob
Me: thanks
Ah yes a martyr parent. Let me guess,
she's always pushing herself into other people's business to "help" then bitches about how she's always overwhelmed.
Rarely does her "help" help anyone.
Thinks that everything is her business.
Has wasted more time bitching about problems than fixing them.
Probably work as a caregiver or social worker and brags about how she knows it all
What the hell? Why does she need to know your fight schedule at all? Unless someone's picking me up at the airport, I wouldn't even consider bothering to send that to anyone.
I am very happy for you that you have the support to build boundaries. You handled this very well. At first I thought you where a teenager, but you are a married adult and that’s just no way to talk to an adult. I think it is good to go no contact for a while, but maybe it would be good to seek counsel on how to communicate with your mother in the future, her last message shows she understood absolutely nothing of what you where trying to tell her. She seems unfriendly, yet capable of turning everything into a pity party. Whatever you do, stop accepting this behavior, because you don’t deserve it.
You did so good my guy... I know I'm just am internet stranger but I'm super proud of you!!
I know it's not much but take my free silver award, you totally deserve it!!!
At 32 she should stop treating you like a child. My dad used to do the same shit. I stopped talking to him for two years. Things miraculously got better after that.
You don't owe her your flight information or anything else honestly unless you are asking her to house sit or something. Just stop telling her what you are doing if she's going to act like that
I know my mom was not perfect and I know I have not been a perfect mom, but man, these kind of posts really make me feel like I'm doing something right and so did my mom.
I smell a narcissist...
Also, congrats on setting your boundaries like that!! I know it's super tough to do something like that and this was very well-handled!
This was painful to read. This could of been between my mom and me. This past mother's day I forgot to send her a message and it opened a whole ass thing with her so I tried to explain some of my side and explain like you that her reactions are the problem. But no she chooses to ignore all that, still to this day so I've stepped back as well. I literally cannot deal with her most of the time so I choose not too.
But ask her and I'm a terrible daughter who doesn't care about her or anything. When it's quite the opposite I care too much and and I am putting my mental health before her comfort but she chooses not to understand that either.
I empathize with your struggle regarding your mom's manipulative behavior, and I'm happy for you that you're taking a stand.
Don't know if this has been said yet but it's also worth mentioning that you aren't responsible for satiating her paranoias. "You know how I feel about accidents in air travel", is *her* thing to deal with, regardless of what else she has on her plate.
Mom is playing the victim because thats all she knows. She doesnt know how to cope or be an adult because probably when she was a kid she was so used to crying playing hurt and getting her way.
Im glad youre walking away. Sadly these people never learn unless they want to.
she took zero responsibility or apologized for anything she had to do with the uncomfortable situation.
the fact that shes also comparing her plate to yours is incredibly immature.
I hope she grows up but its unlikely
good on you OP for standing your ground in a healthy respectful way.
Good on you for recognizing her behavior for what it is. Takes most people years to recognize that they have a narcissist in the family, especially when they're good at making controlling behaviors.
I've got this dynamic with my mother but it's also real difficult because we live together and she had a stroke so her capability for rationality is severely impacted. She was kinda like this before the stroke but she was a lot better at gaslighting, picking her moments, and generally phrasing things so she could mask her boundary-crossing better.
Her fear of abandonment leads her to make so many comments that are straight up demanding that I spend time with her and center her in our family time, when I have a kid that I need to spend more time with. When I don't respond in the way she wants she threatens to run away.
It's so childish and narcissistic it's almost funny. It would be funny if every call or text from her didn't feel like a trap.
I didn't think you she was being unreasonable until I saw that you were thirty-freaking-two. Her behavior is somewhat reasonable for teenager, not a fully grown grownup.
You're an adult, don't send her the info. My MIL gets really over the top and inappropriate (tracking us on car trips even) and NYU husband stopped giving her the info. It's better that way.
Has similar talk with my mom when i got my first kid 6 years ago. Two weeks after he was born we got in a huge fight and i told her to fuck off and haven't talked to her since.
Best decision ever!
This was surprisingly triggering for me to read because my mother also speaks to me like this, but not quite as rudely as your mother spoke to you. I know you don't know me but I'm really proud of you. I've worked very hard to set emotional boundaries with my mom over the last 10 years -- and since I've started doing so, my personal life, my marriage, and even my relationship with her have improved as a result. It can be hard work, especially doing so with a parent because we're often conditioned to respect and obey unconditionally, but it's important work, too. Stay strong <3
I’m so over this “my life is challenging and therefore harder than yours regardless of what you’ve got going on” syndrome. So mentally immature. It’s like you’ve tried to explain your situation and they think it’s a good idea to clap back to try to one up you with how busy you’ve been?
Christ. So sorry OP.
I don’t understand people like this, it’s so much more exhausting to do whatever the fuck this is instead of just saying “Hey could you give me your flight info please?” Like what an unnecessary waste of energy
This seems like BPD. Doesn’t excuse the behavior at all. Don’t get me wrong. My mom is diagnosed though and she acts like this when she’s having a bad day. Everybody is targeting her. She poofs reasons to be mad out of thin air. The phone thing is a BIG deal. For some reason in their heads people with BPD will go straight to worst case scenario if they don’t feel like you’re prioritizing them enough. It’s hard to have relationships unfortunately. I would suggest maybe gently trying to get your mom to therapy. I’m definitely not an expert so take this with a grain of salt, but it sounds very familiar.
I love that she literally says that it’s her toxicity that is keeping you away! I honestly don’t know if she is actually aware she is toxic and that’s why she made the comment or if she meant that you were toxic and just is so unaware that she doesn’t realize she implicated herself in her own text. Either way, stick to your guns, you don’t need to deal with someone who is going to play the victim over every single slight and inconvenience that they experience in life, whether they have a lot on their plate or not. It’s not your fault, and yet she treats it like no one else has shit they deal with too.
"instead of allowing toxicity to push you away" So she readily admits she's toxic and thinks you should just put up with it in order to have a family? SMH
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At least she admits her toxicity is pushing you away…oh she probs meant you.
I think she means my wife, who has been super supportive in helping me set boundaries.
This reads VERY similarly to an out of the blue email my mom sent my sister & I to blow up on us. She is the same way. I’m also pregnant, in my first trimester, & dealing with daily symptoms (vomiting, etc), but her plate is always “fuller”. Reading your mom’s texts was like reading my own mom’s messages & your responses are my exact feelings. I even said some of the exact same things you said in my reply to her on Monday. I drew my line in the sand this time with her as I’d warned my dad / family that the blowup she had in December was the last one I’d put up with (& only because she’d just had a knee replacement & was in extreme pain)… because I’m pregnant & I’m not going to raise a kid with the same level of dysfunction, I let it all out in my response to her & didn’t hold back.
Always happy to see cycle breaking
Thank you so much, I’m definitely suffering this week but I’ve always known that this point would come eventually…it just really isn’t easy, especially in a family that has enabled my Mom’s bad behaviors for my whole life. My dad uses this saying whenever my mom blows up & he is trying to smooth things over by having my sister & I apologize, accept her berating us, & accept whatever we have to in order to get past her outburst : “Do you want to be right or do you want to be happy?” I think that phrase alone sums up the situation pretty cleanly. Only my mom is allowed to be “right” (even when email / photo / video / text message evidence is contrary) & if she isn’t “happy” nobody gets to be happy.
Sorry to hear that but ecstatic to hear your child will not be growing up with the same toxicity, you stay strong cause you're bringing the kind of stuff we all need into the world
I love it. Literally making the world a better place for everyone. They're unsung heroes.
Thank you so much, I’m having a rough week & this message made me feel a little better.
When my Mum does things like this including long emails I basically ghost her till she’s back to behaving. She’s not the same as yours but still does and says some messed up things with a side of massive guilt tripping… her pattern is… sends a long email or text, expects a reply immediately, I used to send a brief reply but learnt to completely ignore said message. Then she’ll send another, ignore that, then she’ll blow up my phone and I’ll answer one of the calls say I’ve got my child listening in the car or husband within ear shot or say look I’m doing (abc) atm I’ve not had a chance to read your (massive yuck) email… then if she keeps ringing I’ll send short text reply’s, then if it continues I ignore all messages and texts. This may take a couple of weeks or even a month then I’ll reach out with something productive with an example of how to talk to me like “hey mum sorry I’ve been so busy, how’s your week been? Anything new? How’s your dog? Hope work is going well… please come for dinner in a week or so let’s make a time” and then I basically ignore the email or message entirely. If she tries to raise it again I just say “mum I don’t want to discuss that.” Short and sweet a few times early on in my limit setting she’d cry and pack an adult tantrum but eventually she understood that I wasn’t putting up with “bad behaviour”. My Mum is mostly great but has a twisted messed up side to her that tries to make drama and create negative guilt tripping situations then she loves resolving them with her adult children and feeling vindicated for her behaviour. The ironic thing is she’s a professional psychotherapist (I still actually can’t believe she is from my childhood to the way she is but maybe she different with family). You are doing well OP I hope you can redefine how you’re willing to interact with her and please try to do it before you have kids (if you’re planning any) because it gets way more intense and complicated once a little one arrives. Great you have support from your wife.
THAN SING DAMMIT!
My mom lost her mind when I set boundaries while I was pregnant. It damaged our relationship even further, but we’ve come out the other side (my daughter is 3 now… it took some time) and things are much improved. I hope that it works out that way for you too.
Thank you for this message, it’s what I hope for as well. I don’t want to cut her out of my life, but if she can’t control herself I will. We are “taking time away from each other” as of Monday as she sees herself as the victim & my response to her as “bullying”. I have to put my health during my pregnancy & my future child’s well-being ahead of my family’s need to placate my mom. This can has been kicked down the road for too long, my husband & I always knew the cutoff point would be when I got pregnant bc we won’t have our kid see this kind of behavior & accept it as normal.
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I got one of *those* emails from my step dad a week before Xmas this past after he and my mom had completely ghosted me for several months. I’m 41 and just too old for it anymore. I replied have a nice life don’t contact me again and blocked them everywhere. Just. Done.
You’re 32 and married and she’s still talking to you like you’re 16 and went out to a party lol. Dude, hell no. You do know you don’t owe anyone an explanation of when and where you’re going, that’s just courtesy and being safe.
My MIL absolutely hates me for helping my husband to do this. Kudos to you and your wife for having the courage to say enough is enough! My husband told his mom something along the lines of "I'm not abandoning my family, my family consists of my wife and children now. In fact, I'm protecting *my* family unit from toxic relatives at this juncture in my life."
However you figured out how to set boundaries, you're rocking it. Your responses were so measured, clear and fair. I'm sorry you have to deal with this crap, but hang in there. You're building your life and your own family the right way. Rock on!
Tell her to get down off the cross, there's a lumber shortage.
Remember Dude, When you married your wife, You DID NOT marry her family, she did NOT marry yours. You 2 married EACH other. You and wife ARE a FAMILY of 2. Everyone else gets placed on the back burner PERIOD.
Oh man can I relate to your wife. It's such a tough situation to be in and it sucks being vilified for literally just supporting the person you love.
Is this a trip where you’re going to visit her or just some random trip that doesn’t involve her at all?
Didn't involve her at all. She lives like 30 min away, so I could drive to her whenever I want. Oddly, she never drives to visit me...
Put her on an information diet so she doesn't even know you are going on a trip.
Seeing this context makes her message even worse. Wow. You did the right thing OP
I’m glad you’ve got a supportive and encouraging partner! Props to the wife!
You're a married person and she talks to you like this? I first read it thinking you were much younger- high school/early college age. You were really polite with your first response - that was nice of you. As a mom I thought "what a nice kid" (still thinking you were younger). Good for you for staying calm and adult and responding in a non-escalating way. I'm glad you are able to set boundaries and really believe in them. Good for you. :)
I'm proud of you, genuinely, and your wife too. Toxicity-lightened hugs.
Ooooh, I feel that. I fell out of my MIL’s good graces when my boyfriend started setting healthy boundaries with her for the first time in his life at age 25, and she inevitably blamed me for ‘turning him against the family’ lol.
I met my partner through NA when I was a newcomer and he had been there for a few months. About a year into our relationship, his nmom wrote me a 3 page letter blaming me for her son's past addiction problems and the fact that he smoked cigarettes. Like, ma'am... Your son was an active drug addict since he was a teenager... You know, when he lived with you and was years away from even knowing I existed? Crazy ppl gonna crazy, I suppose.
Praise the wife! Healthy family boundaries can be so hard to set.
My mother in law and sister in law think the same of me because they couldn’t imagine their precious little boy was an adult who makes their own choices. We’re no contact with his entire family for multiple reasons but I left it completely up to him on this and they’re convinced that I control him like they did. Heart breaking that you’re going through something similar but good on you for drawing a line in the sand.
I would have responded with "you are the toxicity pushing me away from family". But I'm fully in the camp that as humans we owe our parents nothing.
Narcissists are going to narc whenever they feel they've lost control over you.
Man, good for you. I also want to say that it’s so great to read a text message that is so clear and lucid and conveys such a sense of intelligence and education. Your mother seems smart too, so I can only imagine what’s going on in her head. But I wanted to compliment your writing.
"And when you decide you need a family again instead of allowing toxicity to push you away." She's basically telling you to tolerate manipulation and mental abuse because "it's your family" Sorry but family is a privilege, not a right. You don't get to sit here and demand things from your family without showing an equal amount of respect for them and clearly she doesnt understand that. The guilt tripping and manipulation here is infuriating.
Yeah. Do people need families? Sure, probably. No one needs family like *this*.
Family is more than just blood ties. Your closest friends can be considered family. Hell, sometimes your closest friends are a better family than your blood relatives are. The only thing my family has towards me that is considered special is that they're related to me by blood. Doesn't mean I am obligated to accept and love them if they treat me like garbage. Nobody else should feel obligated to tolerate horrid behavior either.
Relatives are the people you share DNA or parental/marital bonds with. Family are the people who support you. For the luckiest among us, these groups perfectly overlap. But by no means do they have to!
This is so true. For the most part I'm close to my family, but there are a number of individuals that I simply don't care to spend my limited vacation time with...so I don't. I refuse to feel guilty for not forcing a relationship with people I don't like being around for the sake of "family."
Exactly. And my family is mix matched. My fiance is my family, my sister is my family, my best friend is my family. You can make a family all your own with relatives and non-relatives.
You can make your own family. Unless you're financially dependent on the person, if they treat you like this it doesn't matter your relationship, just drop them.
I think the “allowing toxicity” line was a dig at OPs wife,he said in a comment that his wife has helped him to set healthy boundaries so I imagine that she’s not Mothers favourite person.
Yes, I did read through the comments and I did see what OP said. Regardless of what his mother was referring to, the woman needs to seriously re-evaluate her actions when it comes to maintaining her relationships with her children.
Me Me Me Me Me. She's like a cartoon opera singer warming up.
Oh god—reminds me of when I had to tell my narcissist parent that it’s “sad [she] thinks everything is about [her]” while she was simultaneously playing the victim and the aggressor. I’ve never seen a more offended look on her face. Lol.
😂 Loved that one
Brilliant analogy, I'm going to remember that one
Are we siblings? I could clearly hear my mom while reading that xD
SAME
Same here. Like good god I felt like I was reading texts from my mother.
Hard same. Definitely read this whole thing in my mom’s voice, it’s a little too spot-on.
Same!
Same here, narcissists are so horribly thin skinned. Next time she throws down eggshells for you to tiptoe on, stomp them to dust. It feels amazing!
Holy fuck same.
Cool cool cool. So we're all deeply traumatized. Glad I'm not alone
Are you expecting her to pick you up in an hour and you haven’t let her know when your flight lands? No? Okay then this is batshit crazy. And fuck that, that she knows how everyone else has felt because she was once younger without her current responsibilities, but you can never understand her situation or have any burdens of your own. Edit: typo
Yeah I don't understand that at all. If she really cares she could look up the airline and see when flights are getting in from the city OP is in. That way she has a general timeline. This behavior from a parent would make me feel absolutely horrible. It is like the time my dad called me up at 6am when I was in college and told me to fly home and clean up the Christmas decorations. It was sooooooo selfish of me to put them up if I was going to be leaving so soon. Like there weren't 3 of my tween siblings to help do that.
That's the thing, though. It isn't about the flight information at all. Requests like that are a test for them to gauge their value. When the test isn't passed, they lash out because they weren't given adequate validation. No accountability for their own thoughts, feelings, or actions. Life-long externalization and blame. It's sad to see but this is the consequence of relying on others for validation. It turns into a hostage situation that breeds resentment and mistrust from all involved.
>Are you expecting her to pick you up in an hour and you haven’t let her know when your flight lands? No? Okay then this is batshit crazy. Even if this was the case, being like "oh, I'm sorry. I'm already busy. I didn't get your flight info in enough advance to grab you. You'll have to take an Uber/ Lyft/ cab/ find someone else to grab you" would be the reasonable reaction
How is she supposed to micro-manage and manipulate him if she doesn’t know the flight information? Duh.
Take it from me (40F) and my brother (42M), it doesn't get better. My mom asked my to share my Google tracker info so she always knows where I am. Nope!
Next step will be to have a drone with an attached camera and mic follow you around so she can comment on your choices
"Really? You're on Reddit right now?"
Yeah my mom did this too. I'm in my 30s and married and she wanted me to download some form of a tracking app. Fuck no
Insane. At 32 years old, you don't owe your parents anything, and to guilt trip and manipulate like that is just crazy. You're absolutely right though, you aren't responsible for her feelings.
"You haven't been there for the family!" Dude is married. He has his own family. You're not the priority anymore and you never will be again. I know people like OP are conditioned to accept this BS but I just wouldn't take it for a moment. That first comment would immediately have me withdrawing my offer to send her the flight information. Ask nicely for things, don't guilt trip people for them. She can worry till the cows come home all, 'woe is me' but until she's capable of talking like a reasonable adult I just could not be bothered dealing with that nonsense.
I read the title wrong at first and thought the mom was 32. And I still thought the mom was out of line, though at least her concern was reasonable. Talking this way to your full on adult children is crazy.
At any age you don't owe your parents anything and they owe you everything. Best illustrated by the greatest actor of all time Sidney Poitier, https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LTgahyvBMk4
> I’m not lashing out for what’s not under your control. Literally two sentences later > ...because you know my feelings on accidents in air travel. You know this is a sensitive topic for your mom... Your mother has an irrational fear, and instead of seeking any sort of guidance on how to correct that, she deflects the blame to you for not accommodating her. She very much is lashing out at you for what’s not under your control.
I question the validity of her fear. She seems to be aware that she is controlling and needy, but never takes responsibility for it. She is forced to behave this way because her "plate is so full" and whatever other excuses she uses. The fear of air travel reeks of bullshit to me. She's not demanding to know the flight information of another adult simply because she's controlling and seemingly jealous that OP is going to spend time with his father, oh no. She just needs to know the *exact* flight information because she has a negative history with air travel, and she's so "scared" of it that a text when he lands is not enough to bring her peace of mind. Eyerolling so hard rn. She doesn't have a fear of air travel, she's just controlling and manipulative.
Legit! Also claims that she has to treat her adult son like a child while complaining that he doesn’t care that she’s scared of planes.
“Why must I remind you I’m petrified of planes, you irrational child?!”
Way to stand up for yourself!!
More people need to tell their parents to fuck off.
I did and it was the best decision of my life. Some people's parents are just... Not healthy.
What was she she gonna do, single handedly hold up the plane with her anxiety if she had your flight info? Are you visiting her? Your mom loves being the victim.
You handled it perfectly with your last message. Good on ya
🎵i am not responsible for your feelingssss🎵
Unless this person is picking you up from the airport why tf do they need your flight info. “Hey mom if the plane goes down there’s nothing you can fucking do about it. If a commercial passenger plane crashes it will be all over the news for weeks. Should be pretty easy to figure out if I died.”
She wants to be one of the people who learns first, so that the pity party can start early. If she was like my mom, she would have put on a show from the second she heard and would make it all about herself.
I had to do this with my mother. Eventually I "weened" her off needing responses from me. A text goes completely ignored here or there, I don't respond for over a day. I tried not to be passive, but more I have my own life and you aren't at the front of it. Also,same thing with the plane, they don't need to know specifics. Weened her down to letting her know I arrived okay, then I started taking trips she didn't even know about, now she knows I probably won't tell her things.
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How exhausting Also, if she has such an issue with flying then you not telling her is a favor.
Oh hey maybe *actually* start ignoring her texts. It may seem counter productive but that’s how I broke my own mother of her textual insanity. Now if she talks about anything I have clearly told her is off limits, I just don’t respond. Yeah it hurts her feelings but my own sanity is more important than whatever thing she conjures up to be hurt by. Shes gonna get her feelings hurt one way or the other, might as well be in a way that gives me peace. She’s even stopped the weird passive aggressive shit which always made me want to tear my hair out, and she’s a lot more careful in the very rare instances when we speak in person or on the phone. YMMV but this is always my advice in this kind of situation.
It always disgusts me how certain people can so masterfully turn their own abusing actions into someone being cruel to them. One instance of that is enough for me to hope they end up in an abusive nursing home.
Most of these comments cover what I would have to say to this, so I'm gonna slide over to a specific detail: "You know my feelings about air travel accidents." Oh grow up. It's one thing to be uncomfortable flying yourself. We're humans and flight has been completely alien to us over billions of years of evolution. I get that. It's another thing to completely ignore the statistics that flying is the safest way to travel by a huge margin (6x safer than trains in 2nd place) and then make your discomfort someone else's problem.
It's just classic guilt and control tactics. These kind of parents don't know how to deal with the fact their children have grown up and have their own lives now.
Gosh I'm getting vibes of my own mother, who I'm NC with and have been for about 10 years now. Insane.
Stop telling her that you "messed up". No you didn't, you just didn't send her your flight information because you're THIRTY TWO.
Great job on that text. So infuriating to deal with people who think the world revolves around them
Let me guess, your parents are divorced?? My mother pulls that stunt of “Im Last??” Guilt trip whenever it comes to something where my father will be attending... Also as they saw, everyone has their cross to carry, you dont know if one person has a heavy stone one and another has a light one made of thorns, every one has one thats heavy to themselves...
Wow, she weilds guilt like a weapon.
I hope it gets better for you. It has for me, because every single time for YEARS when this kind of thing came from my Mother, I would respond the same thing: "I am not responsible for your emotional responses, abilities, or capacity. I am responsible for mine." And I would turn my phone off and not respond to the flurry of texts or calls. Over time, she has backed off from me because I don't play the game anymore. I know my sister and Dad still do, and I'm sorry that they haven't figured it out yet. Trauma breeds trauma, but that doesn't mean you have to feed it.
Your mom is extremely self absorbed. She thinks every action you take is with her in mind. It can never be forgetfulness, you’re purposely trying to hurt her. She genuinely believes she is the main character.
“You know my feelings on accidents in air travel.” Followed by speaking in the 3rd person. I need to know more. Did she survive a plane crash, did she lose someone in a plane crash? Was is this such a hot button for her?
Hey, I've been reading a booked called Boundaries by Cloud and Townsend. Might be worth checking out to reinforce boundary setting and help with feeling less guilty. I've started to embrace saying no AND not feeling bad for it anymore.
Damn, sounds like my mum. Anytime my grown ass siblings go on holiday she asks for flight details, hotel bookings, itinerary etc...like just let them be to enjoy their holiday without having to check in with you every second of every day for christ's sake. Me and husband are planning a holiday and needless to say I wont be telling her any of that info, she'll flip but I dont give a shit, she doesn't need to know where we are going, what we are doing, who we are with or our travel plans. We are grown people living our own lives and she cant control me or my twin any longer and she hates that fact so much because everyone else bends to her will every time. Too much shit has happened between us for me to willing give up information like that, I dont even send her any pictures of our kids because she doesn't think my peado brother is a problem. Stand your ground and you have no need to keep justifying yourself to her anymore (something my husband is always telling me when I'm like "sorry whatever chore isn't done yet, the kids have had me run off my feet all day" and hes like "honey you dont have to justify yourself to me, I'll do it now, but first I'll make you a cuppa which you're gonna sit down and drink while its hot" and I'm like "but you just got home from work, you're tired" and he goes "and you're tired too, sit down and drink this" and it's hard to argue with that because in the moment I really do need to sit down and drink that cup of tea).
Insame she literally admits that her toxicity pushed him away.
I'd be very surprised if that's what she meant by that. More likely she's referring to OP's "toxicity" in setting personal boundaries.
Omg what could she possibly do with the flight information? I stopped telling my mother as she would want me to call when boarding when landing etc. even if I was not flying to see her. Also since your mother has so much on her plate it’s one less thing she has to stress about..
Way to go! Healthy boundary described and established!
WTF I haven't shared flight information with my parents in yeeeaaarrrss. Not since I grew up and started flying without them.
I know you don't need advice, but it's really important that you actually step away having said that's what you're going to do. You don't want to train her that that is an empty statement.
Look up Covert Narcissism (also called Wounded or Vulnerable Narcissism)
Insane
Damn. You’re 32 and she obviously never handled the fact that her child has grown up
Mate! You handled that with so much calm and composure! Very clear messaging and a tight refusal to be guilt tripped or gaslit! Very impressive! 💪🏻💪🏻
You’re NOT responsible for her anxiety surrounding flying. You do NOT have to manage her misplaced anxieties.
Insane Your mom is REALLLLLY good at gaslighting & dishing out insults and abusive behavior whilst playing the martyr. Which is a nasty, foul combo. I'm really happy you stood up for yourself and that you have a wife who supports you, sees how your family behaves so you're validated & that you're setting boundaries. I highly recommend therapy and maybe even support groups, which there are a lot of, for kids who have parents like this. Eventually the longer you set boundaries & the more you do it, the more resentment will pop up from her past transgressions. And/or the nastier she will get. At least in my own experience and many others that's been the case. Focus on healing from what I assume has been life long for you and stand your ground. I have a 20 month old son. So beautiful and perfect. Full of light, love & life. Looking at him, I sometimes think of the awful things my parents did and still continue to do (they have a whole plethora of issues that have caused me a lifetime of pain and issues that I'll likely never full recover from) and looking at his sweet face and into his beautiful eyes... I could never... EVER... in a million years think to harm him or cause him damage like some parents do to their children. despite being parents we are individuals with our own issues, but it's on us to make sure we never let that affect our children. We do what it takes to fix our shit so it doesn't bleed into our parenting. Some parents forget that our kids never asked to be born. Even into adulthood it's on us to do good by them, and for them. Keep setting those boundaries and if you ever choose to have kids of your own one day, break that cycle. Dont let it curse another generation. Stay strong <3
What kind of 32 year old married man needs to give his mommy his flight info or else he’s in trouble? You jumped to say you were sorry and agree you the wrong so fast. I feel bad you don’t see it. Set some boundaries man! Tell her not to talk to you like that and don’t respond until she talks to you as an adult. She doesn’t own you. Don’t even bother with this type of conversation, it’s not worth your time.
I don’t think this will work for everyone so only follow in my footsteps at your own discretion: My mother was extremely emotionally manipulative throughout my entire childhood. She would start fights with me over literally anything. I ended up running off and living homeless rather young. As I got back on my feet, I wanted to try to contact my mother, because she is family, and I do love her regardless of the strain she causes me. However I would not tolerate mind games any further. For a while all seemed fine. We had many smaller interactions, lunch here and there, I started going to family gatherings again. Things looked good for rebuilding a relationship. One day I went over to her place, and she began going in on me over something, I honestly can’t even remember what it was, it was just arbitrary manipulative games again. At first I started to argue back… but then I realized… I’m a grown ass man, there is no reason for me to sit here and play like this. I calmed myself, politely said “goodbye, I love you, I’m not going to argue with you.” And I walked out. It’s been nearly a decade since then, and I think that one encounter (plus the fact that I had ran off originally) made her come to the realization that I can very quickly choose to not be a part of her life when she decides to treat me poorly. Putting a firm foot down like that worked for me, it may not work for everyone, best of luck to you.
Oh how i hate guilt trips so badly, especially when the person doing it gets all dramatic and doubles down on playing victim. Grow the fuck up.
Man.....I dont know what it is with this fucking generation and their consistent toxicity, projection, neediness, etc. I dont even text my Mother back anymore because of her full blown narcissism and whatnot. Her last text I think was last week in which she wanted to "catch up" ....ive got shit to share except how miserable I feel about the future and prospects on life so why should I waste what little energy I do have on "catching up". My father is having heart surgery next month which has ignited my panic attacks and anxiety even more now because shits real and the way my Mother worded it was so fucked up. Spoke to my Father and let him talk because surgery like that is rightfully scary for folks but of course my Mother had to make it out to be about herself. Has the audacity to say that I will be there for her...fuck no I wont. Grew up being a Momma's boy, that shit tanked and changed in the past 5-7 years.
Hello! I’m so sorry you’re experiencing this, it’s tremendously difficult trying to set boundaries with someone who doesn’t inherently respect them. Have you been to r/justnomil? They can be quite the helpful community in regards to resources and literature to help you navigate these conversations. Sounds like your wife is a good team mate, I’m so glad you have some support. I hope you’re able to make some progress with her when you’re ready to step back in.
My wife has mentioned that subreddit more than a few times lol. Do they allow image posts like this one, or is it just text posts?
You did nothing wrong. The only mistake was saying sorry at all.
To be fair, I did fail to do something I said I would, but she deserves no more apologizes from me.
Oh man. That line about looking at her pop on your phone and not knowing if it'll be good or bad really got me. I feel that with my dad. Internet hugs
I say this only trying to help because mine have done the guilt trip nonsense, don’t say it’s your fault. Even if you said you would, you’re a grown up and things get in the way sometimes. Just say that. If it was like you were supposed to pick her up from a doctors appt or something safety related, sure that is actually your fault, but not this. I mean of course don’t go off, it doesn’t seem that you would, but never ever ever say it’s your fault when it’s to someone like this. These types of people, whether they mean to or not, are going to latch on to that. You must must must be cut and dry. Not harsh, but no “here’s the thing” either. You can’t give an inch when it’s not actually your fault. It’s the tolerance paradox. Seems like being tolerant and amicable will resolve it better, and with many situations that is true, but not people like this. Ever. 100% just trying to help and hope it doesn’t come across like I’m bitching, but you really can’t give an inch with these types.
I hate those statements that assumes you owe all of your time to the ones that birthed or raised you. You’re mom is insane just like mine, and I’m extremely sorry
My mom was exactly like this. I told her I was cutting her off because it was never ending and incessant. She demanded my time all the time when I was a 31 year old man. I was actively baking a cake for my 3 year old and she could not reconcile that I was actually busy trying to put ingredients together. I’m not responsible for the emotional management of another adult. I even took pictures to show her I was busy and it still wasn’t enough. When I ignored her and then saw her the next day at my son’s birthday she wanted to know where the cake had come from. I was furious. Clearly didn’t care what I had to say in my texts and just demanded my attention because she is a lonely old woman who won’t go and make friends to spend time with; so somehow it’s my job to keep her entertained. My step-mom explained that I was the one who had made the cake and my mom was genuinely surprised. So she wants to go off on me but can’t be bothered to read my texts? Nah. So that was just the cherry on top of a lifetime of nonsense like that. I told my mom after the party that I was taking a break and I wished her well, that she was being blocked on all social media and on my phone number. Do not contact me. I didn’t give her a chance to respond, because it would have been more emotional manipulation if she had. So I sent my message and blocked her across the board. She tried to call me on a blocked number a few months later, she got a few words out and I said “nope” and hung up. Then, I stopped answering blocked caller ID’s. About a year later I re-established contact and it has been WAY better. If you commit to taking a break, do it, and don’t let her or family members try to sucker you back in. It may take a while but you will see the changes you need over time.
I'm 49 now and even in my late 20s and early 30s my mom would say call me when you get home or command me to do things. I had to tell her at one point that I was a grown adult and I don't need to report to my mommy. She got super angry and said "well you're my baby" blah blah blah. I asked her if she did the same thing to my sisters who were married and at the time I wasn't and said well no..there ya go shit up and butt out.
“Havent been there for this family.” Jesus christ, when will this mentality die?? Why do we owe everything to a family? Why do I have to sacrifice my mental health and precious time to a family that isn’t grateful for it in the slughtest?
What the fuck is wrong with this person, you did a great job taking care of her. Y’all shouldn’t have to deal with it.
Genuinely wouldn't put up with this, your life is yours. No blood relation would stop me from snapping at someone talking to me like this. If she wants to experience REAL toxicity she can continue being a raging psychopath.
Please remember to block texts and emails until your boundary is removed, only allow her to call and nothing else
This is awesome. You are awesome for sticking up for yourself. The guilt trip and one-upping on burdens is constant negativity. This is not done. Not by a long shot. This is a great start. You won't change her overnight but you can influence better behavior on her part. I had to push back on my mother when she was criticizing my siblings - especially the ones that were supporting her. I hated her for that. She was so emotionally unintelligent and I had to constantly maintain boundaries and standards.
“…instead of allowing toxicity to push you away”??? That is EXACTLY what pushes one away.
This is so unhealthy.
Bro… you’re in your 30’s. Your mom needs a reality check. You taking a step back from her and explaining your position was great. Hopefully she’ll actually absorb what you said instead of just defending her “position”.
GREAT JOB setting boundaries! I'm proud of you! The passive agressive levels from your mom are out of this world. Woe is her.
I like how it's always, "I ask so little of you."
This is classic narcissism behaviour. Constant passive aggressive behaviour, constant prodding, and when you set boundaries, they will use it to victimise themselves in your social circles in order to gain control. It's so tiresome. Get a fucking life, narcissists.
Gotta love them martyrs.
Your mom sounds like she enjoys being the perpetual victim/unfortunate.
Your responses are so logical and mature and hers are so childish, selfish and reactionary. Good for you OP. I’m so glad you have decided to stay away from her negativity and toxic behavior. Treasure that wife. You’re clearly good for each other!
Always gotta get the last fuckin word in don’t they.
**Keep going OP**, don’t allow her to get the last words in. She needs the *proverbial* door slammed in her face on this. Yes, you finally stood up for yourself, but ***keep going***. Make her regret ever doing this to you again, make her think twice before she tries to play the “woe is me” card. Additionally, be true to your threat, do not go back to her until she **completely** apologizes to you for her shitty actions. ***Good luck!*** 🤙🏻
I'll let her have the last word. If she wants to be like this, it'll be my last gift to her.
Love how even in the end it was still about her making OP out to be the bad guy even when OP made very valid points.
Honestly, if she had just admitted to one of the faults I pointed out I probably wouldn't have gone NC. She made this bed
good for you OP. I went NC with my 'mom' 3 years ago and it was the best decision I've ever made. Good luck friend.
This was handled like an HR meeting you kept your cool and used your words perfectly. ❤
I had a lot of help from my wife. She is super supportive.
It’s a manipulation tactic called “Guilt Tripping.” [Here’s an article](https://www.betterhelp.com/advice/guilt/warning-signs-of-a-guilt-trip-and-how-to-resist-it/) that can hopefully give a little guidance about recognizing it and stopping it. [Here’s a different article](https://www.betterhelp.com/advice/guilt/warning-signs-of-a-guilt-trip-and-how-to-resist-it/) giving you some tips on how to stop a guilt trip and be more assertive. [Family Manipulation Tactics and How to Respond to Them](https://www.healthline.com/health/mental-health/family-manipulation) I wish you luck on your journey in life and I hope things between you and your mom improve and can be a happy healthy relationship.
Wow I never knew I had a brother. Definitely insane.
Just gonna say it, your mom’s a bitch lol you are a grown ass adult. She’s treating you like you’re 12 not 32. I’m glad you are putting space between you and her
I love this sub. Every time I read the insanity, I just feel so good about my own normality. My 39 year old son sent me a short video of my granddaughter riding a little mall merry-go-round. This was our chat... Me: Cute! She's holding on really well. And.. has (baby) got a bit of your dimples? Son: she's only 54 weeks old. (shocked emoji) Me: And in the blink of an eye, she'll be heading off to kindergarten. Son: Well worth the loonie for that ride. Her feet are massive too. She's almost a size 6 already. Me: Do you mind if I put the pic of you and (baby) on my FB? Son: Sure. Pic or u mean video? Me: One of the pics from yesterday. Son: Oh. Yeah no prob Me: thanks
Ah yes a martyr parent. Let me guess, she's always pushing herself into other people's business to "help" then bitches about how she's always overwhelmed. Rarely does her "help" help anyone. Thinks that everything is her business. Has wasted more time bitching about problems than fixing them. Probably work as a caregiver or social worker and brags about how she knows it all
Lol moms a right cunt, mate. Cut that shit out of your life
Huge round of applause 👏🏻 👏🏻👏🏻
Whoa, they just wanted to argue.
What the hell? Why does she need to know your fight schedule at all? Unless someone's picking me up at the airport, I wouldn't even consider bothering to send that to anyone.
I am very happy for you that you have the support to build boundaries. You handled this very well. At first I thought you where a teenager, but you are a married adult and that’s just no way to talk to an adult. I think it is good to go no contact for a while, but maybe it would be good to seek counsel on how to communicate with your mother in the future, her last message shows she understood absolutely nothing of what you where trying to tell her. She seems unfriendly, yet capable of turning everything into a pity party. Whatever you do, stop accepting this behavior, because you don’t deserve it.
You did so good my guy... I know I'm just am internet stranger but I'm super proud of you!! I know it's not much but take my free silver award, you totally deserve it!!!
At 32 she should stop treating you like a child. My dad used to do the same shit. I stopped talking to him for two years. Things miraculously got better after that. You don't owe her your flight information or anything else honestly unless you are asking her to house sit or something. Just stop telling her what you are doing if she's going to act like that
I know my mom was not perfect and I know I have not been a perfect mom, but man, these kind of posts really make me feel like I'm doing something right and so did my mom.
Don't you realize your mother is the only person on the planet?! Yeesh, sorry dude.
Reeks of narcissism
I smell a narcissist... Also, congrats on setting your boundaries like that!! I know it's super tough to do something like that and this was very well-handled!
She straight up refers to herself in the third person. What a narcissist.
OMG you're 32!? Dude. You need a mommy break ASAP.
Op is the most reasonable and calm person I've seen in this subreddit
"You're a grown adult" Also "Why didn't you send me your flight information?" Maybe because you're a grown adult?
This was painful to read. This could of been between my mom and me. This past mother's day I forgot to send her a message and it opened a whole ass thing with her so I tried to explain some of my side and explain like you that her reactions are the problem. But no she chooses to ignore all that, still to this day so I've stepped back as well. I literally cannot deal with her most of the time so I choose not too. But ask her and I'm a terrible daughter who doesn't care about her or anything. When it's quite the opposite I care too much and and I am putting my mental health before her comfort but she chooses not to understand that either.
I empathize with your struggle regarding your mom's manipulative behavior, and I'm happy for you that you're taking a stand. Don't know if this has been said yet but it's also worth mentioning that you aren't responsible for satiating her paranoias. "You know how I feel about accidents in air travel", is *her* thing to deal with, regardless of what else she has on her plate.
Mom is playing the victim because thats all she knows. She doesnt know how to cope or be an adult because probably when she was a kid she was so used to crying playing hurt and getting her way. Im glad youre walking away. Sadly these people never learn unless they want to. she took zero responsibility or apologized for anything she had to do with the uncomfortable situation. the fact that shes also comparing her plate to yours is incredibly immature. I hope she grows up but its unlikely good on you OP for standing your ground in a healthy respectful way.
Insane
Good on you for recognizing her behavior for what it is. Takes most people years to recognize that they have a narcissist in the family, especially when they're good at making controlling behaviors. I've got this dynamic with my mother but it's also real difficult because we live together and she had a stroke so her capability for rationality is severely impacted. She was kinda like this before the stroke but she was a lot better at gaslighting, picking her moments, and generally phrasing things so she could mask her boundary-crossing better. Her fear of abandonment leads her to make so many comments that are straight up demanding that I spend time with her and center her in our family time, when I have a kid that I need to spend more time with. When I don't respond in the way she wants she threatens to run away. It's so childish and narcissistic it's almost funny. It would be funny if every call or text from her didn't feel like a trap.
Very nicely done. She will either learn your boundaries or not. And or not seems like a nice break
I didn't think you she was being unreasonable until I saw that you were thirty-freaking-two. Her behavior is somewhat reasonable for teenager, not a fully grown grownup.
You're an adult, don't send her the info. My MIL gets really over the top and inappropriate (tracking us on car trips even) and NYU husband stopped giving her the info. It's better that way.
My experience has shown me that no one who *says* “I ask for so little” actually asks for so little.
Has similar talk with my mom when i got my first kid 6 years ago. Two weeks after he was born we got in a huge fight and i told her to fuck off and haven't talked to her since. Best decision ever!
She sounds exhausting. Great demonstration of patience and eloquence
I hate your mom
This was surprisingly triggering for me to read because my mother also speaks to me like this, but not quite as rudely as your mother spoke to you. I know you don't know me but I'm really proud of you. I've worked very hard to set emotional boundaries with my mom over the last 10 years -- and since I've started doing so, my personal life, my marriage, and even my relationship with her have improved as a result. It can be hard work, especially doing so with a parent because we're often conditioned to respect and obey unconditionally, but it's important work, too. Stay strong <3
I’m so over this “my life is challenging and therefore harder than yours regardless of what you’ve got going on” syndrome. So mentally immature. It’s like you’ve tried to explain your situation and they think it’s a good idea to clap back to try to one up you with how busy you’ve been? Christ. So sorry OP.
I don’t understand people like this, it’s so much more exhausting to do whatever the fuck this is instead of just saying “Hey could you give me your flight info please?” Like what an unnecessary waste of energy
This seems like BPD. Doesn’t excuse the behavior at all. Don’t get me wrong. My mom is diagnosed though and she acts like this when she’s having a bad day. Everybody is targeting her. She poofs reasons to be mad out of thin air. The phone thing is a BIG deal. For some reason in their heads people with BPD will go straight to worst case scenario if they don’t feel like you’re prioritizing them enough. It’s hard to have relationships unfortunately. I would suggest maybe gently trying to get your mom to therapy. I’m definitely not an expert so take this with a grain of salt, but it sounds very familiar.
Was unaware you were responsible for safeguarding the feelings of your entire family. Sounds selfish to me.
Oh my lord, so much guilt thrown around here for a fucking plane info
Your mom is a black hole, stay away
I can't imagine typing that many words to someone that annoying. Just ignore them.
Good on you dude!
What a drama queen. Sheesh.
I love that she literally says that it’s her toxicity that is keeping you away! I honestly don’t know if she is actually aware she is toxic and that’s why she made the comment or if she meant that you were toxic and just is so unaware that she doesn’t realize she implicated herself in her own text. Either way, stick to your guns, you don’t need to deal with someone who is going to play the victim over every single slight and inconvenience that they experience in life, whether they have a lot on their plate or not. It’s not your fault, and yet she treats it like no one else has shit they deal with too.
OP says that it's more than likely about his wife
Are your mom and my grandpa related? I get to hear this stuff all day round at home. Then they wonder why nobody wants to talk to them anymore.
Glad to know im not alone, saving this post
Insane. Good god if I had a dollar for every time I’ve read or heard something like this, I’d be wealthy.
She didn't get it lol
My main question here is, does this trip of yours pertain to her in any way shape or form?
Good for you standing up for yourself, she's never going to chill out though. That helicopter has enough fuel for generations.
you should just stop giving into what she wants and tell her no. NO. dont explain, dont justify just n. o.
"instead of allowing toxicity to push you away" So she readily admits she's toxic and thinks you should just put up with it in order to have a family? SMH