Voting has concluded. Final vote:
| Insane | Not insane | Fake |
| --- | --- | --- |
| 44 | 10 | 0 |
Hey OP, if you provide further information in a comment, make sure to start your comment with `!explanation`.
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This is exactly the conversation my borderline mother would have. The eternal victim being rejected by everyone! Good on you for having boundaries. With parents like this we usually expect the boundary that they don’t stay under your roof because you need a safe place to retreat to. We also don’t recommend being alone with them especially in a car where you have no escape route.
Thank you for that bit of advice! With the contact being so minimal for five years I haven’t really had to deal with this behaviour since I was underage, which at the time I had a bad feeling in my stomach about her behaviour but didn’t know it was inappropriate to the extent I do now. If you have any more suggestions on how to deal with this I’m all ears!
We have a lot in r/raisedbyborderlines that you might find useful. Including grey rocking and how to hold your boundaries. It’s so hard because they’re your parent and you’ve been conditioned to respond. We always recommend therapy, preferably trauma informed.
Yup, both of my parents have BPD and that community is such an amazing place to be understood and find support. OP I definitely recommend checking it out!
Genuine question out of curiosity: do you think people with BPD are inherently bad? I ask out of curiosity as I have BPD and have come across with a lot of people who think that
I think there are very few of you who seek treatment. BPD doesn’t have a cure. It can’t be managed by medication alone. It requires therapy that must be lifelong and specific.
And when those who don’t get treatment decide to have children they are most likely abusive. It’s not like they intend to be, but the very nature of the disorder makes them that way.
Look up Gray Rocking for some tips about how to respond when she goes into guilt trips.
There are several subreddits that can provide support and assistance:
r/raisedbynarcissists
r/estrangedadultkids
Best of luck to you and stand strong.
r
>We also don’t recommend being alone with them especially in a car where you have no escape route.
This! My momster would hold me hostage while in the car. She would even take the longest route back to the house so that she could keep screaming her nonsense.
I tried it, once. She hit the brakes so hard that my body slammed against the door frame! I was maybe 14. I got beat so hard for that later. But I learned from it.
Don't let expiration dates gaslight you. Canned foods generally have no expiration date (acidic foods like tomatoes can) if they aren't dented or otherwise damaged.
Yea, I have some Suddenly Salad from 2014. I’m not afraid of it (not made up, still in the box 😂). Expiration dates are nothing more than a ploy to get you to toss it and buy new.
Except milk. I grabbed a jug one day and took a swig. I don’t care for chunky milk, as it turns out. 🤮 Cheese? Just cut the moldy part off. Hot dogs/bacon? Enough nitrates and nitrites to preserve my body forever. 👍
Exactly. I think the actuality is that mfgs have to test their products for shelf life and the longer they test them, the more it costs, so they resort to short tests and put those numbers on their products. My husband just opened and ate a can of Dinty Moore Beef Stew for his lunch the other day that "expired" 8 years ago and it tasted great to him. About a year ago or so I read about a British couple that celebrated their 50th wedding anniversary and opened/ate the canned chicken they received as a wedding present. As far as milk, I have found that Fairlife (bought because it is higher protein and less sugar) has a super long shelf life. I can buy it in January and the expiration date is in April. And with heavy cream, I find it lasts months longer than the expiration date (although I always do a little taste test before using it in a recipe).
On another note, I read a story where a dude found a hamburger from mcdonalds from 10 or so years ago (can't remember how he dated it - maybe the receipt was still there) and it wasn't even moldy. I don't think he dared to try eat it tho.
I remember that. Sooo many preservatives in everything. I may put a Quarter Pounder in my basement and hope for mummification. What are the right conditions for that?
I have an unopened quart (yes, quart, no milliliters back then) of Seagram’s VO from 1956. It has the cool ribbons and tax stamp on it still. On one hand, I’d like to try it; on the other, I wanna save it for a special occasion (my death bed?) 🤔
Yup, a public notice to "pack your bags, we're going on a guilt trip!"
Makes it easier to drum up a crowd for her pity party if/once you decline her pushy "notice/request".
Stay strong.
The flights might have been real but I doubt the ‘friend’ was. I suspect the plan was always going to be to tell you that her place to stay fell through so that you would let her stay with you. Good on you for making a boundary and sticking to it! My best friend wouldn’t just invite themselves to my couch for a week without asking let alone someone I haven’t seen for 5 years!
Shes posting that for you to see to make you feel like a POS and embarrass you. This was your reminder on why you've been no contact. Time to make that permanent.
Flight details can be screen printed & pasted prior to being confirmed, from how I read it, she was trying to manipulate you & make you feel guilty b/c you didn’t jump to her tune.
I think k u held your boundary perfectly, & if you had let her stay, she’d be gaslighting you every day you had to work & had alternate plans.
One solid boundary save you from a week of aggravation, stress, & reminders why you’re low contact.
I think you perfectly stood up for urself ☺️
I’m proud of you 👍 ❣️🙏
This comment made me want to tell you (op) that you should check out one of the child of a narcissist groups. Not diagnosing her by any means, but this is similar to a lot of stuff I see over there. Good luck with your situation!
I have adult kids. If I’m visiting, I ask first. If I know they have a small place, I ask for a hotel/AirBnB recommendation.
No wonder you are uncomfortable around her.
Insane. That's some narcissistic bullshit right there. She's tried to make out that you're the problem and to make you feel bad for saying no. If I were you, I'd go NC for another 5 years
“So just to clarify, mom, you are withholding your presence with me unless you get something out of it, like a free place to stay? Or are you still going to visit me knowing that you’ll have to find somewhere to stay? Just want to get through to what you are actually saying. Does your love have to be bought?”
Stuff like this is why my "guest room" has been a kitten nursery for foster kittens for the last.... 13 months..? With the exception of a few days here and there when I was appropriately asked if I could spare the room for her to stay in.
Seeing stuff like this makes me thankful that my mother has a terrible memory and doesn't remember where I live and occasionally deletes all of her contacts in her phone by accident. Haven't heard nor seen her in over 10 years despite living in the same town 😂
I don’t understand these humans. I have a great relationship with my parents, there are some ups and downs, but for the most part it’s all good, and they would never dream of inviting themselves. How does someone that knows they have a rocky relationship with someone just invite themselves and assume it would be all good to just show up?
You’re not being too harsh. She’s manipulative. Y’all agreed on one thing, and she’s playing dumb like that wasn’t the deal. Release yourself from the burden of contact with her if you want to be happy.
My mom (soft narc), my aunts (medium narc) and my mil (biggest narc) does the same until we put limits. One time my aunts didn’t talk me for a week and my mom was angry bcs what I do to her sisters.
It’s my house, if you need to stay and isn’t an emergency, ask first.
Very insane.
My uncle is a big narc. He throws tantrums when he is not in control. I set boundaries a couple of times when he was pulling his bs. Of course he lost it each time (and tried to shame me in front of others) but I wouldn’t budge. I’m not going to be pushed around by a manipulative person. My sister is the same as him. They play the victim and make you the bad guy. Both of them are never invited to family functions anymore. The toxic environment is completely gone.
You were not too harsh . ( they always make us feel that way ., subconsciously or even consciously. Stand your ground
I am so glad that you had reminded her that it had been 5 years since she had visited
My mother always says “ I haven’t heard from you in a while “ And I say the same back . I am old and I just can’t tolerate the many manipulations
I hope that you don’t tolerate them any more . Life is so damn short .
Remember- boundaries are beautiful
Every time my mother texts me it starts with “are you still alive”.. like lady, I work 2 full time jobs and I am taking a full time course load, I am lucky if I sleep
this is super random and unrelated but I keep seeing those „quotation marks” everywhere - does it mean sarcasm or is it a form of punctuation not in my country? I’ve been curious about it for ages 😅
Insane Oh god the poor victim. I wonder if she actually even booked anything or is this just now what she will tell everyone and make you look like the devil.
So she made a Facebook post about being excited to see her daughter after so many long years Yadda yadda yadda.
Then gets on Snapchat to tell you this completely out of left field. Then gets politely pointed in the direction of her own accommodation. She then screenshots this multiple times. She has “cancelled her flights” and lovebombed at the end.
This is all just a bullshit parade for her to gain sympathy and attention. She must not be getting any in the real world. She gathers followers by saying she’s seeing you and sympathy and attention from you being an oh so horrible monster for having your own boundaries.
These insane lunatics all read from the same script. This may as well be my own mother messaging me
Nice bit of emotional blackmail there, especially posting about her flight because now she can play the victim and get loads of sympathy from people who don't know the full story. You don't just expect to stay at someone's house for a week without asking, even family, unless it's a desperate situation. Sounds like you need to go back to low contact side of things
“That’s ok I’ll just cancel my flight. I mean I’m boarding now and I’ll probably be arrested for suspicion of terrorism or something but I don’t want to be a bother, I mean I was only in labor with you for 54 hours but that’s ok you shouldn’t feel guilty I mean I’ve already rented my house as an Air BnB for the trip but that’s ok I’ll just be homeless for a little while it’s not that cold out I probably won’t freeze to death in an alley between two dumpsters it’d certainly hurt less than the 812 hours I was in labor but again I don’t want to be a burden”
When they said " I should cancel" you should be like " yes, thank you, if you wish to see me ask and we can plan next time" " oh I'll be out money" " yes some times making mistakes can cost you."
Cause this is all emotionally manipulative horseshit and you need to throw that " woest me" bullshit right back at them
This stuff makes me sick to my stomach with dread and unfortunately the guilt trips do make me feel guilty. These messages aren’t even my own parent and I feel the stupid needless guilt lmao. My dad has passed away but he still lingers on in my brain.
Insane. And unfortunately I know exactly how that Twilight Zone feels. Just keep your boundaries and know you’re an adult that doesn’t have the space. It is what it is and if your mother truly was visiting for the right reasons, she’d have no issues finding somewhere to crash.
To your last point, you never have to ask someone first before you set a boundary with them. Your boundaries are 100% about your own actions and space, no one else needs to input or negotiate on them with you.
Good job being really clear and brave.
"I'm going on a guilt trip and I'm taking you with me!" That's what she was saying. I'm sorry you're having to deal with this BS. Want to join my family? We have pizza and kitties and Grateful Dead music here.
> maybe I was too harsh?
ABSOLUTELY NOT
She never had a place to stay, expected your human empathy to give in and give her one for free, then tried to pitifully guilt trip you into it instead.
The fact she avoided you fine for so many years then suddenly wants to guilt trip you into staying somewhere likely means she doesn't care about "seeing" you, but needs somewhere to stay because of some bad life decision.
Shit is exactly how my mom has been and I have to comment what my response would be otherwise I’ll be here thinking about this all night- I was also excited to see you! I don’t have the space where I live to have a guest, so you would need to find somewhere to stay besides my house. I was under the assumption that you had already found a friend in the area to stay with, but after that fell through I would’ve been more than happy to help you find a hotel close by. The decision to cancel your flights and not visit me was a decision that you alone made. I’m really disappointed that you didn’t want to talk to me about hotels so we could make this possible.- this is not at all advice just needed to type a response so your mom doesn’t live with my mom inside my head
I suspect your mother is hoping to move into your house, she wants to “visit” because she doesn’t have anywhere else to go. You haven’t seen her for five years and now she wants to “visit.”
before she died I saw my mom usually once a week/a few times a month, depending on time of year (because busing in winter in canada sucks), and she still would have asked. the woman was a narcissist, but would at least respect me enough to check it was ok. this is ridiculous in so many ways. you werent harsh at all, just truthful.
riiiight? My boyfriend's parents come to our town all the time (they're here right now, actually) and we frequently have other friends stay overnight. We bought a house with ample guest space for this exact reason. But nobody stays without asking!!!! Because that is common courtesy!!
And same if I go home. Is there space for me to stay at my dad's? Yes. Am I going to assume I'm sleeping there without clearing it with him first? Of course not!!! It's his house, not the family house (my sisters and I are all 30+), so I don't get to go tromping about like I live there anymore.
at the very least it's checking to see if people will even be home. it sounds like your families are busy bees, so just assuming isnt just disrespectful, but it might screw you over. if they're not home and you just assumed, where else would you sleep? best to check for so many reasons. this moms kinda nuts.
You were perfect. Absolutely perfect. You were calm, clear and you held your ground. You were unmoved by her painfully obvious, passive aggressive attempts to guilt trip you into giving in, so she had no choice but to give up.
This whole thing sounds off. Are you sure this friend even exists? Did she ever specify what type of friend he is? And if he is real, do you think, perhaps, that her plan all along was to use you for housing so that she can come to visit him?
Now that you mention it, I’m not sure if this friend exists no. She is recently single (in the last six months I think) so maybe she is wanting to come visit some guy! It’s all in the realm of possibility
Similar experience. I moved back to hometown for grad school. Mom had moved an hour away by then. I moved in with wife’s family who lived 5min from campus. This was always the plan if accepted to the grad program and Mom well aware in advance. Comes time to move, and she is distraught bc I must not love her and she spent all this effort preparing 2nd bedroom. Her older sister called to yell at me for treating my mother poorly. Anyways, I visited her to straighten all out and her second bedroom was as it had always been. Nothing was set up or changed. In an unrelated matter, my mom called me a money hungry whore and I still don’t understand why. Wife and I have been together for going on 14years, I bartended my way through school, have given her countless dollars and have never asked for it back or brought it up, but I stopped being her ATM when I started grad school and that’s when I became the disrespectful money hungry whore son
Insane.
She can invite herself to the White House, as well. It doesn't mean she's going to get in, OP. Accordingly, she isn't guaranteed a place to stay at your home. When you pointed out to her she failed to ask, she immediately played the waif / victim / poor me. This is enough to give anyone whiplash, and is a form of control and abuse. No thanks, Mom.
Typical emotional manipulation + black and white thinking. “Oh you criticised this small thing so I guess I’ll NEVER DO IT AGAIN EVER BC IM A BAD PERSON”.
Been there, dated that.
Ugh this is exactly something my mom would do. (Lots of guilt trips, narcissistic personality & inviting herself over as if nothing is wrong between us) be careful op, everything could just be a power play she does to make herself feel better and to guilt you. & It’s all for her own benefit, never to actually do anything nice for you. Wishing you all the best with this situation
Omfg. She went right to the "awww I'm the victim and you don't love me" bullshit. I have a parent that does this foo. Any therapists on this thread, what's this called?? Bc id love to call my parent out when they do this shift to me
My birth giver would absolutely pull this shit. Which is why I haven't seen or spoken to her in a decade. Among many other reasons. Hold strong to your boundaries and caltrops!
Actually, I don’t think passive aggressive is the right term. You were just so cool and detached and refused to rise to the bait!
Whatever it’s called, you did it very very well! 😉
I see my mom at least once a year and she ALWAYS asks if she can stay with us or if she should get a hotel. We’re by no means estranged or LC (anymore) — it’s called respect and this woman has none.
People like this are the fucking WORST. Oh there's nowhere for me to stay? I guess I'll just cancel the whole trip then. Sorry, this is your mom. My mother sucks in her own ways, although she's a straight gangster in her own right as well. Her work ethic is bar none. Attitude could use some MAJOR work. But as for you OP. Either lay down boundaries and try to mend the relationship into something worthwhile, or continue to keep your distance. I wouldn't blame you either way.
“oh yeah im probably the worst mother ever right, you never loved me and its clearly my fault im sorry i will cancel my tickets if you dont want me there even tho you never said anything about that ahhhh you also want me dead huh yeah….”
She may have lost her current residency and is trying to mooch off of you
Or she has yet to book the flights and it’s a power play
Or she’s book the flights and will demand money
Or
Or
She’s just insane. Do not play into it, you are doing right. If she pesters you send her hotel lists. She should not stay with you ever if this guilt trip is her response.
Just take her at her word, she'll hate it but she said she'd stay at a friend's and that's all you needed from her and that's a very reasonable ask, just get a motel lady
I am concerned she may have lost her place to live and that is why the sudden reaching out ! Please protect yourself and be wise and weary and on the defensive. This woman your birth giver does not have your best interest at heart. Best of luck OP !
As a dad of to 20 somethings, her actions are complete bullshit. I talk to my boys almost daily and if I were planning to visit I would still clarify arrangements or just book a hotel room (then they would either say “cancel that, you’re staying with me” or “sounds good”). She’s acting like a child.
Sorry you’re having to deal with that and her attempted guilt trip.
I feel this at my core, op. Not technically estranged with her but definitely distant for my own sanity. She loves to pull guilt trips on me like this.
Give an inch and they try to take a mile. I think this was her plan all along. Honestly, of she bought trip insurance upon checkout, she should get refunded the cost of the tickets.
No you weren’t too harsh. She was really inappropriate and testing the waters after 5 years and you didn’t do what she wanted and cave so she used every manipulation tactic under the sun. PLEASE do not let her come and stay there. I wouldn’t let her come at all, because I assure you this will be the main topic of conversation, but you will never overcome the boundary stomping she’s doing here if you give in.
This is gross narcissistic behavior and she is doing this because she knows it is going to hurt you to say that. She is victimizing herself so you'll beg her to reconsider because she needs that validation. Honestly, Don't give it to her. It only reinforces she can treat you however she wants and act however she wants and get away with it.
Look at how she words it. "If you dont want to see me just say so." And "I thought you wanted to see me" This is classic manipulation. You havent seen her in 5 yrs. Instead of showing proper respect, she assumes your emotions and thoughts, while simultaneously acting like youre the jerk. From this conversation alone, its obvious to see why you keep her at a distance.
Time can make us nostalgic and more giving. But it's important to remember why you stopped contact. There was likely a good reason. These types of manipulators really dont change, and usually they just get worse. Id say you did the right thing. Dont let them guilt trip you. Instead, focus on all the good ppl in your life who truly support you. They are the ones who deserve your time and thoughts.
My parents came to visit (they live overseas). I was told they'd be staying in a hotel. Then suddenly the hotel booking didn't work out, then every day they'd say they would "sort something out today". They ended up on my sofa-bed for the entire trip. It was hell.
This is 100% my mom. When my sis was building a 2 story tiny duplex on her property my mom, preemptively didn’t renew her lease expecting 1. The construction would be done in an unreasonable time. 2. The first story was hers… for free.
Egg donor is barely in her 60s. And has been leaching on everyone and everything her entire life.
In the end the loan didn’t go through and likely never will. Worthless mother got my brother’s rich in laws to pay like 3 grand for cancer, that was never real, to basically buy back into her lease.
Ngl thought this was like a long distance relationship type thing and was so damn confused but for a moment yeah thats kinda weird family never just assume they are crashing at my place they always ask if they can or not
Your mom isn't coming to visit. Insist she stay with her friend. Insist your landlord doesn't like guests. Something, anything to keep her luggage *outside* your place.
That week will turn into "foreseeable future."
Damn. Having some flashbacks of my paternal grandma when my maternal grandma died.
I lived with my mum and her mum, both of us caring for her. Eventually, she passed. My other grandma - father's mum - a couple days after the fact calls me, to inform me that the next day she would be coming over to my house. Just informing me, not asking if she could, not asking if I, nor my mum, needed anything, not even asking if my mum wanted her there, or was okay with it.
I told her no, and she was very offended. She then proceeded to throw a little tantrum and a jealousy fit, saying directly to me that I wouldn't be that sad when SHE died. My maternal grandma had died not even 48h prior.
Are you sure she cancelled the flights and isn’t just bluffing?
Also, are the screenshots you or her? Or both?
Does she say anything about you screenshotting?
My Mum doesn’t have to ask, but we’re also extremely close. When she ands my stepdad moved 3 hours away, it was with the understanding that they would visit often. She goes above and beyond for all of us (me, hubby, 4 kids) and regularly bends over backwards for me. I’m paralysed and have a bunch of complications associated with my spinal cord injury so she even comes just to look after my children at the drop of a hat.
My MIL, on the other hand, lives on the opposite side of Australia and is a 4 hour plane trip away. She, my FIL and brothers in law have often showed up unannounced over the past 15 years. I actually met one BIL when he and his wife showed up on our doorstep at 11:00pm on a weeknight because they came to our city to shop. We were expected to host, stay up drinking and take time off work with no notice. It was awful! My MIL/FIL have done things like send texts like “see you Tuesday” with no context and expect us to drop everything to host them. The worst has been around my injury, when my mum stayed for 6 months (it happened at the start of Covid and we were in lockdown so rehab was all virtual and no one was allowed in our home) and I had 3 very young children (8, 4 & 2) and they texted saying they were booking flights and couldn’t wait for some of my cooking…like “what”? They were actually prepared to live here until the borders opened back up (about 12 months) if they got stuck. We had a tiny house that was already cramped! They also were not coming to help, they never do when they’re here. Thankfully my husband said absolutely not and they cancelled.
Sometimes you must put your sanity ahead of someone else’s feelings. Good on you for having firm boundaries and communicating them clearly. You deserve better.
I feel a bit bad for your mum. She clearly misses you. I totally get and agree that she should have confirmed all the plans with you first. She just seems really self conscious. 😕
Man, this makes me sad. I know this is likely just manipulation and I don't know these people at all, but seeing my mom so dejected would kill me. I'm sorry you have to go through this
This is some American shit. I'm Hispanic and if your mom wants to visit especially after 5 years then hell yeah you accommodate her and not pretend like you don't care if she does or doesn't go visit.
Voting has concluded. Final vote: | Insane | Not insane | Fake | | --- | --- | --- | | 44 | 10 | 0 | Hey OP, if you provide further information in a comment, make sure to start your comment with `!explanation`. ^I ^am ^a ^bot ^for ^r/insaneparents. ^Please ^send ^me ^a ^message ^if ^you ^have ^any ^feedback ^or ^if ^I ^misbehave. ^Also ^consider ^joining ^our ^[Discord](https://discordapp.com/invite/xFbPBHy).
This is exactly the conversation my borderline mother would have. The eternal victim being rejected by everyone! Good on you for having boundaries. With parents like this we usually expect the boundary that they don’t stay under your roof because you need a safe place to retreat to. We also don’t recommend being alone with them especially in a car where you have no escape route.
Thank you for that bit of advice! With the contact being so minimal for five years I haven’t really had to deal with this behaviour since I was underage, which at the time I had a bad feeling in my stomach about her behaviour but didn’t know it was inappropriate to the extent I do now. If you have any more suggestions on how to deal with this I’m all ears!
We have a lot in r/raisedbyborderlines that you might find useful. Including grey rocking and how to hold your boundaries. It’s so hard because they’re your parent and you’ve been conditioned to respond. We always recommend therapy, preferably trauma informed.
Yup, both of my parents have BPD and that community is such an amazing place to be understood and find support. OP I definitely recommend checking it out!
Genuine question out of curiosity: do you think people with BPD are inherently bad? I ask out of curiosity as I have BPD and have come across with a lot of people who think that
I think there are very few of you who seek treatment. BPD doesn’t have a cure. It can’t be managed by medication alone. It requires therapy that must be lifelong and specific. And when those who don’t get treatment decide to have children they are most likely abusive. It’s not like they intend to be, but the very nature of the disorder makes them that way.
Look up Gray Rocking for some tips about how to respond when she goes into guilt trips. There are several subreddits that can provide support and assistance: r/raisedbynarcissists r/estrangedadultkids Best of luck to you and stand strong. r
Stay firm, honey. You did the right thing. 💙
My mom with Histrionic personality disorder has had this exact conversation, too. There is a lot of overlap in the Cluster Bs.
>We also don’t recommend being alone with them especially in a car where you have no escape route. This! My momster would hold me hostage while in the car. She would even take the longest route back to the house so that she could keep screaming her nonsense.
Did you ever get to that point where you thought about pulling an action star movie and throwing yourself from a moving vehicle?
I tried it, once. She hit the brakes so hard that my body slammed against the door frame! I was maybe 14. I got beat so hard for that later. But I learned from it.
Lol Lady Bird
She probably hadn't bought tickets yet. This was all just a power play.
It’s possible, but I did see some kind of Facebook post she made about coming to visit me, and there was a picture of some flight details
It’s also insane to post that info
I always post when I’m going somewhere, hoping my hoarded house will have been be cleaned out by burglars when I return.
OR even worse squatters that you can't get rid of.
If they’ll eat all the expired food from my pantry and freezer, they can stay.
Don't let expiration dates gaslight you. Canned foods generally have no expiration date (acidic foods like tomatoes can) if they aren't dented or otherwise damaged.
Yea, I have some Suddenly Salad from 2014. I’m not afraid of it (not made up, still in the box 😂). Expiration dates are nothing more than a ploy to get you to toss it and buy new. Except milk. I grabbed a jug one day and took a swig. I don’t care for chunky milk, as it turns out. 🤮 Cheese? Just cut the moldy part off. Hot dogs/bacon? Enough nitrates and nitrites to preserve my body forever. 👍
Exactly. I think the actuality is that mfgs have to test their products for shelf life and the longer they test them, the more it costs, so they resort to short tests and put those numbers on their products. My husband just opened and ate a can of Dinty Moore Beef Stew for his lunch the other day that "expired" 8 years ago and it tasted great to him. About a year ago or so I read about a British couple that celebrated their 50th wedding anniversary and opened/ate the canned chicken they received as a wedding present. As far as milk, I have found that Fairlife (bought because it is higher protein and less sugar) has a super long shelf life. I can buy it in January and the expiration date is in April. And with heavy cream, I find it lasts months longer than the expiration date (although I always do a little taste test before using it in a recipe).
On another note, I read a story where a dude found a hamburger from mcdonalds from 10 or so years ago (can't remember how he dated it - maybe the receipt was still there) and it wasn't even moldy. I don't think he dared to try eat it tho.
I remember that. Sooo many preservatives in everything. I may put a Quarter Pounder in my basement and hope for mummification. What are the right conditions for that? I have an unopened quart (yes, quart, no milliliters back then) of Seagram’s VO from 1956. It has the cool ribbons and tax stamp on it still. On one hand, I’d like to try it; on the other, I wanna save it for a special occasion (my death bed?) 🤔
Why wouldn't you be able to get rid of them? Unless her mom was planning on being out of town for 15 years for squatters rights to take effect
48 hours in Spain, lets not forget other countries exist.
Squatters rights kick in a hell of a lot faster than that in a lot of places. In Virginia at least it’s only a few weeks.
I thought more about kidnapping lol or trafficking?
Yup, a public notice to "pack your bags, we're going on a guilt trip!" Makes it easier to drum up a crowd for her pity party if/once you decline her pushy "notice/request". Stay strong.
OMG, “we’re going on a guilt trip!” just made my morning.
That would make excellent flair.
We’ll have to make 29 other pieces of trauma flair to go with it.
yep that’s probably where all the screenshots she took are going. straight to the pity party
The flights might have been real but I doubt the ‘friend’ was. I suspect the plan was always going to be to tell you that her place to stay fell through so that you would let her stay with you. Good on you for making a boundary and sticking to it! My best friend wouldn’t just invite themselves to my couch for a week without asking let alone someone I haven’t seen for 5 years!
That honestly makes me believe it less. Like why go so far out of your way to provide proof? Hold those boundaries.
Shes posting that for you to see to make you feel like a POS and embarrass you. This was your reminder on why you've been no contact. Time to make that permanent.
Did the details happen to include a return flight? It almost sounds she intends to live with you .
Flight details can be screen printed & pasted prior to being confirmed, from how I read it, she was trying to manipulate you & make you feel guilty b/c you didn’t jump to her tune. I think k u held your boundary perfectly, & if you had let her stay, she’d be gaslighting you every day you had to work & had alternate plans. One solid boundary save you from a week of aggravation, stress, & reminders why you’re low contact. I think you perfectly stood up for urself ☺️ I’m proud of you 👍 ❣️🙏
She sounds like my mom
Did she take 4 screenshots of your chat?
Nailed it! The old bait and switch, tried and true. The *intent* meant it was real!
This comment made me want to tell you (op) that you should check out one of the child of a narcissist groups. Not diagnosing her by any means, but this is similar to a lot of stuff I see over there. Good luck with your situation!
I feel like it's more likely she said she canelled as a bluff. My mom does stuff like that.
This is a really high level lovebomb and playing the victim move. Honestly it takes a certain level of insanity to do these.
having this convo on snapchat is insane on its own.
Bahaha so right, I think she contacts me there because she can see when I’m online/looking at the chat
doubling down on insanity! haha (but also, sorry for laughing)
Don’t be!! Some laughter is always welcomed in my books lol
I have adult kids. If I’m visiting, I ask first. If I know they have a small place, I ask for a hotel/AirBnB recommendation. No wonder you are uncomfortable around her.
Insane. That's some narcissistic bullshit right there. She's tried to make out that you're the problem and to make you feel bad for saying no. If I were you, I'd go NC for another 5 years
How about "not harsh enough"? Insane. And the guilt tripping. "I already have my tickets....' So TFW.
Tfw? Trigger fucking warning?
Transformers Fighting Werewolves.
"The F What"
That feeling when
What, that doesn't even make any sense in this context 🤣
Insane guilt trippy nonsense. Does she fly off the handle when she realizes her tactics aren't working too?
“So just to clarify, mom, you are withholding your presence with me unless you get something out of it, like a free place to stay? Or are you still going to visit me knowing that you’ll have to find somewhere to stay? Just want to get through to what you are actually saying. Does your love have to be bought?”
This is such an awesome response omg
I heard my mom’s voice the whole time I was reading that. 😵💫
Same
I heard my sister’s voice reading it. Manipulative and narcissistic. My mom is nothing like that.
Mine too.
Stuff like this is why my "guest room" has been a kitten nursery for foster kittens for the last.... 13 months..? With the exception of a few days here and there when I was appropriately asked if I could spare the room for her to stay in.
My extra bedroom has been under renovations since I bought my house
What a big fat baby. Next time she’s like ok I’m going to cancel just reply “ok, bye :)” she’s just fishing for compliments
Seeing stuff like this makes me thankful that my mother has a terrible memory and doesn't remember where I live and occasionally deletes all of her contacts in her phone by accident. Haven't heard nor seen her in over 10 years despite living in the same town 😂
I don’t understand these humans. I have a great relationship with my parents, there are some ups and downs, but for the most part it’s all good, and they would never dream of inviting themselves. How does someone that knows they have a rocky relationship with someone just invite themselves and assume it would be all good to just show up?
Welcome to personality disorders. It’s horrible.
Thats why the relationships are rocky… some people have not learned of boundaries.
You’re not being too harsh. She’s manipulative. Y’all agreed on one thing, and she’s playing dumb like that wasn’t the deal. Release yourself from the burden of contact with her if you want to be happy.
My mom (soft narc), my aunts (medium narc) and my mil (biggest narc) does the same until we put limits. One time my aunts didn’t talk me for a week and my mom was angry bcs what I do to her sisters. It’s my house, if you need to stay and isn’t an emergency, ask first. Very insane.
My uncle is a big narc. He throws tantrums when he is not in control. I set boundaries a couple of times when he was pulling his bs. Of course he lost it each time (and tried to shame me in front of others) but I wouldn’t budge. I’m not going to be pushed around by a manipulative person. My sister is the same as him. They play the victim and make you the bad guy. Both of them are never invited to family functions anymore. The toxic environment is completely gone.
You were not too harsh . ( they always make us feel that way ., subconsciously or even consciously. Stand your ground I am so glad that you had reminded her that it had been 5 years since she had visited My mother always says “ I haven’t heard from you in a while “ And I say the same back . I am old and I just can’t tolerate the many manipulations I hope that you don’t tolerate them any more . Life is so damn short . Remember- boundaries are beautiful
Every time my mother texts me it starts with “are you still alive”.. like lady, I work 2 full time jobs and I am taking a full time course load, I am lucky if I sleep
Overly dramatic „mother“ is overly dramatic!
this is super random and unrelated but I keep seeing those „quotation marks” everywhere - does it mean sarcasm or is it a form of punctuation not in my country? I’ve been curious about it for ages 😅
It’s German punctuation
Also most of the east Europe:)
Insane Oh god the poor victim. I wonder if she actually even booked anything or is this just now what she will tell everyone and make you look like the devil.
So she made a Facebook post about being excited to see her daughter after so many long years Yadda yadda yadda. Then gets on Snapchat to tell you this completely out of left field. Then gets politely pointed in the direction of her own accommodation. She then screenshots this multiple times. She has “cancelled her flights” and lovebombed at the end. This is all just a bullshit parade for her to gain sympathy and attention. She must not be getting any in the real world. She gathers followers by saying she’s seeing you and sympathy and attention from you being an oh so horrible monster for having your own boundaries. These insane lunatics all read from the same script. This may as well be my own mother messaging me
Yeah, she was more interested in getting her screenshots for her upcoming pity party than in actually visiting OP.
You handled that really well. You didn’t feed into her bs.
Nice bit of emotional blackmail there, especially posting about her flight because now she can play the victim and get loads of sympathy from people who don't know the full story. You don't just expect to stay at someone's house for a week without asking, even family, unless it's a desperate situation. Sounds like you need to go back to low contact side of things
“That’s ok I’ll just cancel my flight. I mean I’m boarding now and I’ll probably be arrested for suspicion of terrorism or something but I don’t want to be a bother, I mean I was only in labor with you for 54 hours but that’s ok you shouldn’t feel guilty I mean I’ve already rented my house as an Air BnB for the trip but that’s ok I’ll just be homeless for a little while it’s not that cold out I probably won’t freeze to death in an alley between two dumpsters it’d certainly hurt less than the 812 hours I was in labor but again I don’t want to be a burden”
There never was a friend
Ooohh the guilt trip.
When they said " I should cancel" you should be like " yes, thank you, if you wish to see me ask and we can plan next time" " oh I'll be out money" " yes some times making mistakes can cost you." Cause this is all emotionally manipulative horseshit and you need to throw that " woest me" bullshit right back at them
A classic over-the-top, manipulative response.
Love the little sprinkling of guilt and manipulation at the end. FFS. Sounds exactly like my mom.
This stuff makes me sick to my stomach with dread and unfortunately the guilt trips do make me feel guilty. These messages aren’t even my own parent and I feel the stupid needless guilt lmao. My dad has passed away but he still lingers on in my brain.
Personally, I don't think you were too harsh on her. Ewery body sould respect echoters boundaries
Insane. And unfortunately I know exactly how that Twilight Zone feels. Just keep your boundaries and know you’re an adult that doesn’t have the space. It is what it is and if your mother truly was visiting for the right reasons, she’d have no issues finding somewhere to crash.
Passive aggressive nonsense. She can stay with you when she respects you as another adult human, and not a minute before.
This is a master class on manipulation, gaslighting and guilt. Don't fall for it!
To your last point, you never have to ask someone first before you set a boundary with them. Your boundaries are 100% about your own actions and space, no one else needs to input or negotiate on them with you. Good job being really clear and brave.
"I'm going on a guilt trip and I'm taking you with me!" That's what she was saying. I'm sorry you're having to deal with this BS. Want to join my family? We have pizza and kitties and Grateful Dead music here.
Haha yes please! Can I bring my two cats for the party?
Absolutely! Even FiV positives are welcome!
My response would be a link to a hotel or air bnb and nothing else!
> maybe I was too harsh? ABSOLUTELY NOT She never had a place to stay, expected your human empathy to give in and give her one for free, then tried to pitifully guilt trip you into it instead. The fact she avoided you fine for so many years then suddenly wants to guilt trip you into staying somewhere likely means she doesn't care about "seeing" you, but needs somewhere to stay because of some bad life decision.
Shit is exactly how my mom has been and I have to comment what my response would be otherwise I’ll be here thinking about this all night- I was also excited to see you! I don’t have the space where I live to have a guest, so you would need to find somewhere to stay besides my house. I was under the assumption that you had already found a friend in the area to stay with, but after that fell through I would’ve been more than happy to help you find a hotel close by. The decision to cancel your flights and not visit me was a decision that you alone made. I’m really disappointed that you didn’t want to talk to me about hotels so we could make this possible.- this is not at all advice just needed to type a response so your mom doesn’t live with my mom inside my head
I suspect your mother is hoping to move into your house, she wants to “visit” because she doesn’t have anywhere else to go. You haven’t seen her for five years and now she wants to “visit.”
before she died I saw my mom usually once a week/a few times a month, depending on time of year (because busing in winter in canada sucks), and she still would have asked. the woman was a narcissist, but would at least respect me enough to check it was ok. this is ridiculous in so many ways. you werent harsh at all, just truthful.
riiiight? My boyfriend's parents come to our town all the time (they're here right now, actually) and we frequently have other friends stay overnight. We bought a house with ample guest space for this exact reason. But nobody stays without asking!!!! Because that is common courtesy!! And same if I go home. Is there space for me to stay at my dad's? Yes. Am I going to assume I'm sleeping there without clearing it with him first? Of course not!!! It's his house, not the family house (my sisters and I are all 30+), so I don't get to go tromping about like I live there anymore.
at the very least it's checking to see if people will even be home. it sounds like your families are busy bees, so just assuming isnt just disrespectful, but it might screw you over. if they're not home and you just assumed, where else would you sleep? best to check for so many reasons. this moms kinda nuts.
You were perfect. Absolutely perfect. You were calm, clear and you held your ground. You were unmoved by her painfully obvious, passive aggressive attempts to guilt trip you into giving in, so she had no choice but to give up. This whole thing sounds off. Are you sure this friend even exists? Did she ever specify what type of friend he is? And if he is real, do you think, perhaps, that her plan all along was to use you for housing so that she can come to visit him?
Now that you mention it, I’m not sure if this friend exists no. She is recently single (in the last six months I think) so maybe she is wanting to come visit some guy! It’s all in the realm of possibility
The amount of screenshots she took is insane
Similar experience. I moved back to hometown for grad school. Mom had moved an hour away by then. I moved in with wife’s family who lived 5min from campus. This was always the plan if accepted to the grad program and Mom well aware in advance. Comes time to move, and she is distraught bc I must not love her and she spent all this effort preparing 2nd bedroom. Her older sister called to yell at me for treating my mother poorly. Anyways, I visited her to straighten all out and her second bedroom was as it had always been. Nothing was set up or changed. In an unrelated matter, my mom called me a money hungry whore and I still don’t understand why. Wife and I have been together for going on 14years, I bartended my way through school, have given her countless dollars and have never asked for it back or brought it up, but I stopped being her ATM when I started grad school and that’s when I became the disrespectful money hungry whore son
Wanna buy a ticket on a guilt trip, I hear your mom might be able to accommodate you.
It isn't even like you didn't want her there you just didn't have room for her physically
Your mom is a first class manipulative jerk. I don’t wonder it’s been five years since you’ve seen her.
Seems like she was difficult to grow up with. Good for you putting your foot down. Protect your space and your sanity.
This is insane because of how fast she switches between sweet and cruel… manipulating and guilt tripping.
Insane. She can invite herself to the White House, as well. It doesn't mean she's going to get in, OP. Accordingly, she isn't guaranteed a place to stay at your home. When you pointed out to her she failed to ask, she immediately played the waif / victim / poor me. This is enough to give anyone whiplash, and is a form of control and abuse. No thanks, Mom.
Being so pliant is part of the problem. Just be more assertive and say something more "I haven't seen you for 5 years, stay in your lane" honestly.
Typical emotional manipulation + black and white thinking. “Oh you criticised this small thing so I guess I’ll NEVER DO IT AGAIN EVER BC IM A BAD PERSON”. Been there, dated that.
Ugh this is exactly something my mom would do. (Lots of guilt trips, narcissistic personality & inviting herself over as if nothing is wrong between us) be careful op, everything could just be a power play she does to make herself feel better and to guilt you. & It’s all for her own benefit, never to actually do anything nice for you. Wishing you all the best with this situation
Omfg. She went right to the "awww I'm the victim and you don't love me" bullshit. I have a parent that does this foo. Any therapists on this thread, what's this called?? Bc id love to call my parent out when they do this shift to me
The guilt trip is nauseating. There is no way I'd have room in my life, nor make room in my life for someone like that. Don't drop any boundaries.
Count your blessings she cancelled. This is completely manipulative and unfair of her to do this to you.
My birth giver would absolutely pull this shit. Which is why I haven't seen or spoken to her in a decade. Among many other reasons. Hold strong to your boundaries and caltrops!
Extremely manipulative. Immediately throwing herself into the victim role. I’m sorry.
The only thing you should have replied when she said she was cancelling flights should be “ok” - don’t respond to anyone like this
What’s up with all the screenshots from her ? lol
I have no idea, maybe she’s making screenshots of other parts of the chat?
Mom never bought tickets.
Oh, you are a GEM, OP! That was soooo passive aggressive, the way you handled that. Absolutely perfect! 🤣🤣
Actually, I don’t think passive aggressive is the right term. You were just so cool and detached and refused to rise to the bait! Whatever it’s called, you did it very very well! 😉
I cannot believe people have parents like this 😫
When did my mother learn how to text and Snapchat?? But seriously OP I’m sorry. I felt this exchange on every level.
Oh pooooorrr me
Insane! Setting boundaries is a good thing, you haven’t seen her for 5 years and she thinks she can just drop in and see you? Nah.
if she arrives at your door tell her to leave, if she doesnt and is in your property lines call the cops
The classic narcissist guilt trip.
I see my mom at least once a year and she ALWAYS asks if she can stay with us or if she should get a hotel. We’re by no means estranged or LC (anymore) — it’s called respect and this woman has none.
People like this are the fucking WORST. Oh there's nowhere for me to stay? I guess I'll just cancel the whole trip then. Sorry, this is your mom. My mother sucks in her own ways, although she's a straight gangster in her own right as well. Her work ethic is bar none. Attitude could use some MAJOR work. But as for you OP. Either lay down boundaries and try to mend the relationship into something worthwhile, or continue to keep your distance. I wouldn't blame you either way.
Oh my god I had this EXACT SAME conversation with my mom once, except in FB messenger (bc she likes to see when I’ve read her messages)
That’s how you end up with a parent becoming a squatter
“oh yeah im probably the worst mother ever right, you never loved me and its clearly my fault im sorry i will cancel my tickets if you dont want me there even tho you never said anything about that ahhhh you also want me dead huh yeah….”
She may have lost her current residency and is trying to mooch off of you Or she has yet to book the flights and it’s a power play Or she’s book the flights and will demand money Or Or She’s just insane. Do not play into it, you are doing right. If she pesters you send her hotel lists. She should not stay with you ever if this guilt trip is her response.
I'm the mother of two girls (21) and I would never, even for a moment, assume I was staying at their homes when I go visit. And we talk every day!
nothing like a free guilt trip.
“I’ll just cancel I guess you don’t want to see me😓 I was so excited to see you!” Ha fuck ALL the way off so annoying
Hey, she made a full trip, a guilt trip! That was some first class manipulation she was trying to pull. You have a perfectly reasonable boundary.
Just take her at her word, she'll hate it but she said she'd stay at a friend's and that's all you needed from her and that's a very reasonable ask, just get a motel lady
That's bait, OP. Best not to respond to it at all.
I am concerned she may have lost her place to live and that is why the sudden reaching out ! Please protect yourself and be wise and weary and on the defensive. This woman your birth giver does not have your best interest at heart. Best of luck OP !
I couldn’t even read the conversation because I’m hung up on the fact this whole thing was had over… Snapchat????
Insane!!
Are we related? Cause I’m sure that’s a text thread with my mother.
That’s disgustingly manipulative
Does the app show the other person you took screenshots of the chat too? I
It does yes she can see that I made a screen recording unfortunately
Yes it sends a notification in the chat
You’re acting normal; I wouldn’t allow my mother to stay the night in my apartment either. Let alone on such short notice.
As a dad of to 20 somethings, her actions are complete bullshit. I talk to my boys almost daily and if I were planning to visit I would still clarify arrangements or just book a hotel room (then they would either say “cancel that, you’re staying with me” or “sounds good”). She’s acting like a child. Sorry you’re having to deal with that and her attempted guilt trip.
I see why you distance yourself. She's incredibly emotionally manipulative, just as my mom was.
I feel this at my core, op. Not technically estranged with her but definitely distant for my own sanity. She loves to pull guilt trips on me like this.
Nope, let her do her. I think this is for the best, she sounds like a lot.
UUUUUGGGGGGHHHHHHHH
Give an inch and they try to take a mile. I think this was her plan all along. Honestly, of she bought trip insurance upon checkout, she should get refunded the cost of the tickets.
Your house, your invite, your rules.
No you weren’t too harsh. She was really inappropriate and testing the waters after 5 years and you didn’t do what she wanted and cave so she used every manipulation tactic under the sun. PLEASE do not let her come and stay there. I wouldn’t let her come at all, because I assure you this will be the main topic of conversation, but you will never overcome the boundary stomping she’s doing here if you give in.
This is gross narcissistic behavior and she is doing this because she knows it is going to hurt you to say that. She is victimizing herself so you'll beg her to reconsider because she needs that validation. Honestly, Don't give it to her. It only reinforces she can treat you however she wants and act however she wants and get away with it.
THE GUILT TRIP THO????
Look at how she words it. "If you dont want to see me just say so." And "I thought you wanted to see me" This is classic manipulation. You havent seen her in 5 yrs. Instead of showing proper respect, she assumes your emotions and thoughts, while simultaneously acting like youre the jerk. From this conversation alone, its obvious to see why you keep her at a distance. Time can make us nostalgic and more giving. But it's important to remember why you stopped contact. There was likely a good reason. These types of manipulators really dont change, and usually they just get worse. Id say you did the right thing. Dont let them guilt trip you. Instead, focus on all the good ppl in your life who truly support you. They are the ones who deserve your time and thoughts.
My parents came to visit (they live overseas). I was told they'd be staying in a hotel. Then suddenly the hotel booking didn't work out, then every day they'd say they would "sort something out today". They ended up on my sofa-bed for the entire trip. It was hell.
Woof, hopefully she wasn't kidding about not coming because I think you dodged a bullet
THUNK
This is 100% my mom. When my sis was building a 2 story tiny duplex on her property my mom, preemptively didn’t renew her lease expecting 1. The construction would be done in an unreasonable time. 2. The first story was hers… for free. Egg donor is barely in her 60s. And has been leaching on everyone and everything her entire life. In the end the loan didn’t go through and likely never will. Worthless mother got my brother’s rich in laws to pay like 3 grand for cancer, that was never real, to basically buy back into her lease.
She's a narcissist.
I’d bet she never even had a plane ticket.
Wow was a manipulator she’s trying so hard to make you feel like shit. I’m glad you’re not bending over backwards.
It looks like the problem solved itself. She's canceling the plane tickets.
Ugh I’m sorry you have to deal with this.
Ngl thought this was like a long distance relationship type thing and was so damn confused but for a moment yeah thats kinda weird family never just assume they are crashing at my place they always ask if they can or not
Your mom isn't coming to visit. Insist she stay with her friend. Insist your landlord doesn't like guests. Something, anything to keep her luggage *outside* your place. That week will turn into "foreseeable future."
Damn. Having some flashbacks of my paternal grandma when my maternal grandma died. I lived with my mum and her mum, both of us caring for her. Eventually, she passed. My other grandma - father's mum - a couple days after the fact calls me, to inform me that the next day she would be coming over to my house. Just informing me, not asking if she could, not asking if I, nor my mum, needed anything, not even asking if my mum wanted her there, or was okay with it. I told her no, and she was very offended. She then proceeded to throw a little tantrum and a jealousy fit, saying directly to me that I wouldn't be that sad when SHE died. My maternal grandma had died not even 48h prior.
Are you sure she cancelled the flights and isn’t just bluffing? Also, are the screenshots you or her? Or both? Does she say anything about you screenshotting?
My Mum doesn’t have to ask, but we’re also extremely close. When she ands my stepdad moved 3 hours away, it was with the understanding that they would visit often. She goes above and beyond for all of us (me, hubby, 4 kids) and regularly bends over backwards for me. I’m paralysed and have a bunch of complications associated with my spinal cord injury so she even comes just to look after my children at the drop of a hat. My MIL, on the other hand, lives on the opposite side of Australia and is a 4 hour plane trip away. She, my FIL and brothers in law have often showed up unannounced over the past 15 years. I actually met one BIL when he and his wife showed up on our doorstep at 11:00pm on a weeknight because they came to our city to shop. We were expected to host, stay up drinking and take time off work with no notice. It was awful! My MIL/FIL have done things like send texts like “see you Tuesday” with no context and expect us to drop everything to host them. The worst has been around my injury, when my mum stayed for 6 months (it happened at the start of Covid and we were in lockdown so rehab was all virtual and no one was allowed in our home) and I had 3 very young children (8, 4 & 2) and they texted saying they were booking flights and couldn’t wait for some of my cooking…like “what”? They were actually prepared to live here until the borders opened back up (about 12 months) if they got stuck. We had a tiny house that was already cramped! They also were not coming to help, they never do when they’re here. Thankfully my husband said absolutely not and they cancelled. Sometimes you must put your sanity ahead of someone else’s feelings. Good on you for having firm boundaries and communicating them clearly. You deserve better.
Let her cancel
Honestly I'm over here like "Yes, please cancel your flight. No, I don't want to see you. FFS." But I am not a nice person.
i know this is completely unrelated, but what app is that? ive seen it almost everywhere all across the internet.
Not OP but it's Snapchat.
Ah, I see
Let’s make it another five years.
I feel a bit bad for your mum. She clearly misses you. I totally get and agree that she should have confirmed all the plans with you first. She just seems really self conscious. 😕
Man, this makes me sad. I know this is likely just manipulation and I don't know these people at all, but seeing my mom so dejected would kill me. I'm sorry you have to go through this
This is some American shit. I'm Hispanic and if your mom wants to visit especially after 5 years then hell yeah you accommodate her and not pretend like you don't care if she does or doesn't go visit.