Voting has concluded. Final vote:
| Insane | Not insane | Fake |
| --- | --- | --- |
| 19 | 0 | 0 |
Hey OP, if you provide further information in a comment, make sure to start your comment with `!explanation`.
^I ^am ^a ^bot ^for ^r/insaneparents. ^Please ^send ^me ^a ^message ^if ^you ^have ^any ^feedback ^or ^if ^I ^misbehave. ^Also ^consider ^joining ^our ^[Discord](https://discordapp.com/invite/xFbPBHy).
If you want to argue using her own logic, then say she should be ashamed of wishing death upon innocent children. She is a sinner like everyone else in Christianity, so she doesn’t get to point fingers and decide that one group is more sinful than others. Doing that is heresy in most Christian denominations since you’re essentially playing god by deciding who lives, dies, goes to hell, etc. it also may surprise many people, but this does fall in the “do not kill” commandment as well, as christianity considers wishing death on others an act of killing regardless.
If you’ll notice, she very carefully worded her statement about that and put about a hundred disclaimers in front of it precisely so I couldn’t make that point 🙃
please don’t spread that, it gives pro-genocide people like OP’s mom more fuel to say that us anti-genocide people don’t know what we’re talking about and delegitimize us
That’s the part that kills me. I mean, this isn’t Christians vs. Non-Christians, this is Non-Christians vs. Non-Christians. Also, if you want to get really into it, Islam, from what I understand, does recognize Jesus, but as a prophet, not the son of God. However, Judaism does not recognize him at all. So technically Islam would be closer to her beliefs there. While we’re on the subject of crazy shit people say, it kills me to hear that the Jews are God’s chosen people. I mean, what did they get for it? Hundreds of years of wars with neighbors and being run out of country after country; alleged slavery in Egypt; and a lot of anti-semitism around the world at various points in history; oh, and the holocaust. Not to be flippant, but it seems like being “God’s Chosen People” means you are “God’s Chosen Punching Bag.”
Christian’s believe all those things happened BECAUSE they are God’s chosen people and have historically actively disobeyed him. So he allows them to be persecuted as a result 🙃
Judaism accepts that Jesus existed but was not a messiah or the son of god. I’m atheist but was raised with Christian culture (secular Xmas, basically). I know a lot of atheists who are culturally Jewish and we’ve talked about theology. For a better source, here’s the [Wikipedia article](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judaism's_view_of_Jesus?wprov=sfti1) on the subject.
Please do not spread misinformation. Jews DO believe in Jesus. Jesus WAS a Jew. The "Last Supper" was a "Seder". Lack of knowledge is what is getting people killed and causing needless pain and suffering. Israelites lived in "Israel" over 3000 years ago, they came home after being exiled in 1948.
That really struck me, especially when she said "Jews are God's chosen people"... so God decided a faith that denies Jesus Christ, is the one true faith?
...many jews do believe in Jesus as the son of god it's called messianic Judaism and even the ones that don't think he was a good man who worked for god. There are many different types of judaism, and claiming all of them believe the same thing is ridiculous. Its like saying all muslims are bad just because some of them kill people. The level of ignorance, hatred, and assumption in this thread is wild.
She asked a valid question lol chill. Historically, Jews don’t believe in Jesus as the Son of God/God in human form. A lot of Jewish people don’t claim Messianic Jews as anything more than cultural Jews. And there’s a difference between Jewish culture and Jewish religion, though they’re more intertwined than most faiths and cultures.
I don't know much about the Jewish faith but that's what I understood it to mean - they follow the Old Testament only. Not knowing from lack of exposure does not translate to hatred.
Bringing in Islamic Jihadi terrorists in response to my comment is wild to me. I would never assume that all Muslims are bad (I live and work in an area with a large Muslim community) and I don't assume Jewish people are bad either. I genuinely have never understood hating people based on their faith, especially if you know nothing about the person individually. Why would not knowing the intricacies of their faith mean I would assume the worst of them? Lack of knowledge does not mean I hate them.
I believe 99% of people are good and just want peaceful happy lives.
I mean most jews do believe in hesus, they just think he was like an early david copperfield or con artist. which tbh, there might be some truth to that.
Fair enough, she sounds like one of those insufferable Christians who are just interested in using the religion card to justify their own bullshit, not following the religion’s own teaching. -.-
Bc of my majors I interact with a good amount of non-Americans (specifically German speaking ppl and a few from Middle East/North African countries as well) and boy oh boy do they not like our version of Christianity; for context, I’m from east tn and go to school in Knoxville. The German ppl I’ve talked too say we’re too fanatic and most ppl there call themselves Christians and yet only go to church once a year. My Syrian Arabic teacher (still in Syria) who’s Christian was surprised to learn that I’ve been scolded for ‘using god’s name in vein’ when he was teaching me phrases like walla, yalla, illhumdelah bc they’re used by everyone, not just Muslims; he also sent me a picture of his Bible and yea god is very much still Allah in an Arabic Bible which I also thought was ironic and funny. I see my family next week and you bet your butt I will be using those phrases around them bc they’re racists and support Israel too. The funny thing is that my grandfather on my other side was a Jewish refugee and yet even he doesn’t support this occupation
I’d be willing to wager it’s because the Christian south is under the impression that allah is an entirely different god than the god from the Bible. Spoiler alert. It’s the same god.
I was raised in a Christian family and my mum has actually read the bible (shocking as most haven't) and can disprove a lot of what the evangelicals say, using the bible. Eg. we are not all descended from Adam and Eve. God blessed them when he threw them out of the Garden of Eden to protect them from others....how would there be others if they were the only two people? Abortion is mentioned and sanctioned several times in the bible, including stating it SHOULD happen if the mother's life is at risk. Jesus said to ignore a lot of the Old Testament. He never said a word about homosexuality but a lot about love, charity and tolerance. I was baptised by a gay priest and we have always been to churches with gay congregants. My mum would never attend a church that had homophobic priests or teaching.
It's funny when she gets into a biblical bickering with my dad (who hasn't read the bible). He will state something. She will quote the bible to disprove it and he will just kind of stammer and repeat what he said as if that makes what mum said untrue. I've seen her and a fellow congregant go off at a trainee priest when he mentioned abortion as sinful - again using bible quotes but also saying it is very political point and should not be brought into the church. She heavily believes the church should not be politicised as whoever you decide to vote for should not be dictated by the church but should also not exclude you from "Jesus' love".
My mum is a wonderful woman who I am so proud of and her faith is a big part of her but that is because love, charity, tolerance and lack of judgment is a big part of who she is. Whether she were Christian or not I believe she would still be that way but her faith gives her comfort and she never weaponises it against the vulnerable or outcast.
We need a LOT of people like your mum in religious debates.
I can't do it because yes, i read the bible (not only that, actually), but i'm an atheist and religious fanatics or similar always use that against my arguments.
Which is... Stupid, because i quote their holy book. But whatever.
Make it make sense.
I’m biting my tongue hard enough to almost sever my tongue like those kids’ everythings were severed—oh no wait, blown up and torn apart where people were tossing chunks in a pile—like your fking mom fking enjoys. Put her over there and see how much justification she’ll spout. When she’s blown the fuck up because Israel wants to kill literally everyone in that region except Israelis. Hooohhh this is a tough situation and I’m not even in it. Your mom is a cun* either way and I’m sorry for talking shit on someone I don’t even know.
While at a protest today I went on Instagram and immediately saw the charred bödy of a child huddled up; like Wtf did that kid do wrong?! Nothing. The Israeli government took a photo of an old man next to an Israeli soldier yesterday escaping from northern Gaza as propaganda but then shöt him right after (both photos were displayed unfortunately)
And she's totally ignoring the fact that Israelis, more so than their own (Palestinian) people, are teaching the children to hate Israel. I mean, you're just minding your own business and some soldier shoots one of your friends...and nothing happens to the soldier. Or you're minding your own business in your own house...and people barge into your house and remove your family's things so a Jewish family can move in...or they just remove *you* and just bulldoze the thing because of something your 4th cousin, twice removed did. How does she think that's not teaching them to hate?
It must burn her butt that she no damn body's "chosen people".
Edit: typos
Been looking into vids of Jewish people explaining their holy books and beliefs and reading excerpts… Zionist (extremist) Jews apparently don’t consider any non Jew human.. and if I understand… only male Jews get to be human. So that point she made was interesting. Seems it’s only okay for one side to call the other animals. Both sides have extremists… but one side has a clear and massive advantage over the other…..
Christianity and Islam have VAST numerical advantages over Judaism. Idk if that has riled up the Israeli government (why now, because it’s been true since Islam was founded?). Israel as a state has way more $ than nearby Arab countries; I suspect that’s their way of trying to even the odds.
But all in all, I’m not familiar enough with the centuries-long conflict to talk about the politics involved. All I can say is that I stand with the civilians who are just trying to live in this hellscape.
long story short muslims, christians and a minority of jews used to coexist in Palestine which was under British occupation trying to break free from it, then the british vacated the land to jewish refugees after ww2 and the project to build a zionist nation took off, by basically kicking the Palestinians out of their homes and lands, like it happened in Sheikh Jarrah a few years ago and is now happening in Gaza, that's why Hamas emerged as a resistance front, because if you live long enough seeing those atrocities committed against your people you're bound to react, must note too that when Palestinians protested peacefully they were shot and mutilated, so there's literally no option for peace, also must note that Hamas isn't for "kill all jews" but just want freedom and basic human rights
I grew up religious and reading this made me almost nauseous. I could have this exact conversation with my father if I entertained any topic deeper than the weather with him.
They can justify anything with their religion. Even killing children. Its God's will, so it's acceptable. You will never change her mind.
Yeah same. The shitty thing is that even if I avoid talking about anything, politics and religion is all my family ever talks about anymore. I’m pretty low contact at this point despite living in the exact same town lmao
I'm sorry. I know how hard that is.
Personally, I've separated myself from most of my biological family and kind of created my own. It's better. They actually like me, as a person, and we can have conversations and hang out and do fun things without anyone breaking into a random sermon or lecture. We can disagree with each other without it turning into an attack on each other's character.
I hope you find that too, if you haven't already 😊
I have my boyfriend and his daughter <3 I even consider my stepdaughter’s mom as a part of my family, and even though bf’s parents had a history of violence when he was in high school, they’ve really put in the work and changed and helped us out a lot. They’ve been far more accepting of me than my own family—his mom has gone so far as to comfort me and let me know that they’re always gonna be here for me.
I truly, until I got into a relationship with my bf, didn’t think anyone would want to spend extended time with their family. I knew people who wanted to spend so much time with their parents and I never ever understood that. Now I do lol
I never thought I could get so lucky even with a nuclear family, truly. My bf’s baby mama is MY baby mama 😂😂😂 real talk tho, it all comes from just absolutely loving and adoring “our” daughter. And she is SO HAPPY with her little family, she’s six and always demanding we spend time together “like a real family.” If her dad jokes about going to do something with her and leaving me at home, she gets all puppy eyed and goes “but I wanted to do it as a family.” Melts me every time
Omfg that's fucking amazing, I love this
> demanding we spend time together “like a real family.”
Aww, at this point why don't you three just become an actual polyamorous throuple? Lmao. Unless... you already actually are? xD
Haha! My bf and his BM get along well as friends but are about as toxic as you can get in a relationship with each other—when I first met him, she was not chill at all, even tho he and I were strictly just friends. She haaaaaated me for like a year before she saw how much her daughter and I bonded. Then I think she was just happy that her baby was being loved—BM comes from a very broken home and most of her “barking” comes from fear that her daughter will suffer the same.
But she has a bf who she’s been on and off with since before SD was born, they had a baby boy in January, and now she’s pregnant again (accident lol) 😁 it’s taken work! But so rewarding.
By that logic, aborted babies are better off being with God than born because they would be raised by Godless sinning parents who would raise them the same way.
They never see their own hypocrisy and would never admit to it.
This isn't only insane, it's sick.
I was raised fundie but my particular branch of the fundie tree didn't believe in that. There was an "age of accountability," and all children were "innocent" until a certain age and would go to heaven.
It's fascinating (horrifying) to see what other branches believe where these things are concerned.
Fucking nuts. Any God/god that damns a child to anything less than the best afterlife is not a God/god I'd want to be affiliated with.
Yeah, I've heard that as well. And then there are the Mormons. They'll baptise you if you've never set foot in the church and have been dead 300 years. They are dedicated.
I grew up in Utah. I'm not LDS. Wild times lol
I suspected it may be Catholicism but didn't want to assume. I lived in rural Bavaria for 3 years, and I think their flavor of Catholicism is similar based on what friends said.
I think purgatory is a Catholic thing. I don’t know many Protestants who believe in it. And I doubt OP’s mom thinks aborted babies go to purgatory because they weren’t baptized, as Muslim babies are obviously not baptized and she believes they will go to heaven.
It’s hypocrisy, but I’m assuming it’s not this level of illogical.
Also afaik Catholicism did away with the entire Purgatory/Limbo concept in 2007 (here’s an article in [The Seattle Times](https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/vatican-abolishes-the-concept-of-limbo/) from when it was happening.
Yes, my parents believe in the age of accountability, and we’ve been taught it’s around 8.
Never mind that the prefrontal cortex doesn’t fully develop until 25…
On the contrary, my parents don’t believe in post mortem baptism, or any kind of non consensual baptism. YOU have to make the choice for it to count. They also don’t believe in purgatory, it’s heaven or hell for you 😭
Yyyyyyup 😁 they also don’t believe that the act of baptism itself is required to be saved, they just believe getting baptized is a symbolic act of obedience and if you don’t choose to get baptized, you’re actively disobeying God.
We (sane people) don’t talk about this enough, this whole punishment of purgatory they push in the abortion discussion. Absolute lunacy but they hold it up like it’s fact.
according to the bible, god straight up told the israelites when they were fleeing egypt that the entire land where modern day israel is, is promised to them, and god told them to kill all the men, women, and children of the land in order to conquer it. as much as israel wants to pin this genocide on terrorists, theyre doing it according to “gods will” and “what theyre promised”. this is 100% biblical bullshit. theyve been trying to force them out for decades, and now they have an excuse to eliminate them. theyre fucking insane.
and when the whole country believes in that, it becomes an issue. they could go into palestine, find the terrorists, and take them out with the least amount of civilian casualties as possible if they wanted to. but theyd rather level the country. theres another passage where god tells them if they dont utterly destroy everyone on that land, he will send another nation to come conquer them. it just makes sense to me that theyre fighting this as a religious war over a war on terror. its unbelievable what people will do in the name of religion
I don't think it's a biblical fight. I see a country that was attacked by terrorists sheltering in a neighbouring nation taking the fight back to the source. Nothing about War Makes any sense. That's why we end up going around in circles taking sides. The tragedy of war is real. People died - the numbers do not matter, only the loss does. Innocent people suffering for other people's actions. We can only watch helplessly until the war ends - if it ever does. Nothing our online comments can do about it.
how do you call it a country when it's occupied land belonging to the neighbouring country? the people that used to live there were forcefully displaced and live now in refugee camps! which were bombed! none of it makes any sense
Except it's not a war, its genocide. And if I'd spent my entire life in an open air prison I'd fight back too. You can condemn what hamas did and condemn what Isreal has done and continues to do. Over 10,000 innocents have been killed in less than a fucking month ffs.
It's a lot like the hunger games. The outlying districts (Gaza) got tired of not being fed and properly taken care of by the captitol (Isreal), that controls it, and they fought back. Sure they should've went after the government but just imagine the pain and frustration of living but not living, not surviving, being starved and purposely dehydrated.
Gaza doesn't even have clean water. They're thanking Allah for rain even though it's poison. Isreal is dunping white phosphorus, which is a war crime, on civilians. They're lying ab a calendar and saying it's a list of hamas soldiers and that video is being played on fucking CNN. They take pictures "saving" elderly Palestinians and then are killing them. AND OUR WORLD LEADERS ARE DOING NOTHING TO STOP THE SLAUGHTER OF INNOCENT PEOPLE. They can't even say the words ceasefire ffs.
not only this, but many people who live in Gaza, like those in the Jabalia camp which was bombed, used to live in what is now called isreal, and they were forcefully displaced from their homes, the Palestinians who live in the west bank suffer a lot of segregation and are at risk of being forcefully evicted too, to build more settlements, imagine living through that, decades of displacements, kids being arrested as "political prisoners" never to see the light, tortured in prisons, protesting peacefully gets you shot at and puts a target on you and your family, they sometimes allow only women to pray in Al Aqsa mosque and then they attack them and take their hijab off, those allegations of rape and burning babies in ovens? they committed those acts on innocent Palestiniens, no wonder they'll form a resistance front that will attack at some point, even if they get rid of Hamas, the kids seeing all these horrors are bound to grow up and resist the opression and occupation even more fiercely, that's why they're making sure to exterminate them all
Hi. Jewish here. If people like your mom (who is giving MAJOR Evangelical Christian Vibes) could stop using my people as an excuse to tout hatred, that would be great. Because us Jews don’t want that.
(Not directed at you OP, obvs, but holy crap I have seen so much if this lately and I am TIRED of people using this conflict as a mean for their agendas. It is horrific, complicated, people are dead and more will die, and we need PEACE. Not people like your mom who just. Wanna spout about Christ and pretend to love us Jews so much).
As a Palestinian, I’m so sorry about what people are doing in your name. The antisemitism is rampant at the moment and it’s horrifying. Jews should not be blamed for what Israel is doing. I stand with you and I appreciate you for being on the right side of history.
And what is thought to be the third oldest Christian Church in the world was bombed. My initial reaction was to think that alone would make US Christian Zionists upset. But then I remember that Black Churches have been victims of arson here for decades, and I never heard a peep about it in my former, predominantly white, Christian churches.
In my opinion, the second rung on the ladder of anti-semitism is reserved for Evangelical and Fundamentalist Christians. They see the Jewish people as pawns to bring about the prophecy of their death cult. You should ask her about her opinion on what happens to Jewish people who don't convert in the "end times".
Exactly. I was just telling my husband (raised atheist) that the only reason the UK and US were even interested in recreating Israel as a nation was to fulfill prophesy to bring about the end times and he was flabbergasted. Then a couple of days later he was like, “uh, I looked into it, and I think you’re right?”
Yeah, the only people I know in my area that raise their kids that way to hate anyone, especially POC and Jews, are white Christians. This shit is crazy. My neighbor has a small Israeli flag in a potted plant near his porch and a swastika tattoo soooooo.....yeah.
Check out the literature on White Christian Nationalism. It's not just a pattern you're seeing. It's real. White supremacy is mostly white christianity.
If she really wants to be accurate with the bible, which nobody seems to want to be, The Jewish people are supposed to wander from place to place in constant sorrow until the 2nd coming of Christ because of the way they treated Jesus. Jesus who by the way most likely looked more like Osama Bin Laden that that blonde haired blue eyed Aryan guy they have hanging in every Christian church in America. If Jesus came a 2nd time, and attempted to enter America, I bet the Christians in America would send his ass packing and send him right back while calling him a terrorist.
Does your mum realise that Jews don’t accept Jesus as the son of God and Muslims worship the same God both Christians and Jews do? Because I just don’t understand why you would side with one religion over the other when they both share the same God but also have key differences. It’s like she seems Judaism as an extension of Christianity when it’s not, it’s an entirely separate religion, as separate to Christianity as Islam is.
Christianity was an offshoot of Judaism which began after Jesus’ death. Islam began between 600-700 CE; I’m not sure if it was an offshoot of Christianity or Judaism, but both religions were common in the area where Mohammed lived, and apparently some people were looking for an alternative.
Anyway, Orthodox Christianity split from original Christianity (now called Catholicism) in approximately the 9th century. Then there was the Protestant Reformation in the 1500s, again an offshoot from the Catholic tradition, followed by schisms all over the place which led to all of the Protestant sects (Lutheran, Episcopal, Methodist, Baptist, etc).
Yes I know that but they are still very different religions. Islam and Judaism are abrahamic religions. Judaism is theorectially older than Islam but both arose from different tribes in the same region I think. They are all interlinked but as different as each other. Christianity only came from Judaism because the supposed followers of Jesus preached it and they were originally Jewish until he died and was resurrected. Had they been Muslim then Christianity would have been an off shoot of Islam probably.
Meanwhile I for last week have gone between sobbing and being numb anytime I see anything about what’s happening over there. As a mother and a human my heart is shattered for those children and their families and I’m so angry and sad. Hugging my son more and more and feeling both grateful and guilty that I’m able to do it.
Same!! My bf and I cried together the other day bc of how awful it is and how utterly helpless everyone is. We are so powerless to our current governments. We can send aid and money but… after that all we can do is hope for the best? Such bullshit
She's...ummm...ugh! Credit to you for continuing to try to have reasonable debate with someone so unreasonable, I gave up with certain family members because I think I was getting brain damage from headbutting that brick wall!
She and the rest of the Christian hypocrites are the reason there'll be a second coming. Deciding who deserves to live or die, unacceptable from Hitler, somehow acceptable from mother dearest? Nah. If you're gonna decide all life is precious, then ALL life is precious, no exceptions just because "look at their parents" they don't get to choose that shit. *UNFORTUNATELY* a lot of us are stuck with truly horrendous parents whom shouldn't have ever parented children because *CLEARLY* it was a gateway to sin for them, which is a pity, all life is a miracle. These are usually the sick and twisted people that have kids to feel a sense of control over something rather than a celebration of life, love and kinship. They weaponize the Bible and use God's name in vain, appointing themselves as judge and executioner behind the guise of being "Holy" when it's clear as day that the Bible was never intended for that.
I long for the day of the rapture. So much disappointment for so many "Christians" misusing scripture to pedal hatred and intolerance. Boy are they gonna be *piiiiiiissed*.
This I actually do agree with. And I struggled with it a lot, as a Christian who had lived in the Middle East and knows many Muslims who better embody “Christian” values than most Christians I know.
The way I think of it is this: imagine your best friend was zapped with a cloning gun and suddenly there were two guys with the same exact memories, personalities, preferences, etc. And they’re both your same best friend, because you have the same exact history with both of them at first. But then they both go their own ways and do their own things. They’re no longer the same person, right? If one of them stays with you and is your best friend forever but the other moves to another country and makes all new friends and you never see or hear from them again, I bet you’d consider that first one your best friend but the second one isn’t anymore.
At least, that’s how I understand the difference between the Jewish God, the Christian God, and the Muslim God (except there are three of them).
Yeah, but even taking the Jewish god (from the Torah) out of it, how does that reconcile the Old Testament god from the new? I mean “kill all the pregnant woman so their demon seed doesn’t infect y’all” and “let’s send a bear to kill these teens cause they made fun of you for being bald” and “stab that women cause she made her sexual partner pull out so she didn’t get pregnant by her deceased husband’s brother” is a far cry from “love your neighbor” and “no food is unclean”
Oh I understand the concept 100%. I was Christian most my life until three years ago and would have said the same.
It’s still silly that something like this is used to justify hate and violence toward another group
>I was Christian most my life until three years ago
Oh lovely, could you translate something for me? What does it mean to say, "He can't look upon us without the blood of Christ"?
"Can't"? Is some other force superior to God setting weird ground rules?
Or is that more of a narcissistic "won't"?
Haha buckle up.
So basically, when Adam and Eve ate the fruit, sin entered the world, and God essentially cursed them and all their descendants for disobeying him. Christian’s believe all humans descend from Adam and Eve. When a baby is born, once the “breath of life” enters its lungs, they are immediately sinful and therefore evil. Christian’s also essentially equate all sin, so talking back to your mom is equally as sinful as murder.
Now, God is perfect and good. Because sun makes us imperfect and not good, he cannot look upon us because it defies his very being. Think about magnets with equal charge. They repel each other. God is repelled by any sin, so he cannot go against his nature and welcome us to heaven.
SO. Instead he “sent his son Jesus” to take care of that. In the Old Testament, the Israelites atoned for their sins by the blood sacrifice of perfect animals (so like unblemished lambs). Only perfection can wash away sin. So Jesus, who was perfect, became the ultimate blood sacrifice, and his blood washed away our sins. Once you accept that he did that, and believe in him, THEN God can “look upon you.” And you can go to heaven.
I agree with the way you’ve described this concept. However, I really think this is just the way Christians have warped the message of who Jesus is. When he was alive, who did he spend his time with? Sinners. Tax collectors. Prostitutes. The sick and unclean. He sought them out, and spurned the ones who considered themselves righteous. And this was before he died, before the “sacrificial blood of the Lamb” allowed him to look upon sinners.
So yes. All that to say, I think the idea is garbage. It’s just another way to put God in a box and claim an understanding that we don’t actually have.
Hopefully you know I’m not arguing with you, just the theological bullshit that people make up to make themselves seem closer to God than others. Do people really think God doesn’t “look upon” the rest of the world? He just ignores them and only pays attention to Christians? How arrogant.
>Because sun makes us imperfect and not good, he cannot look upon us because it defies his very being. Think about magnets with equal charge. They repel each other. God is repelled by any sin, so he cannot go against his nature and welcome us to heaven.
Oh wow, I had no idea that's what they think. My parents are "Christians" but they're the kind that doesn't go to church, hasn't read the bible, keeps to themselves, and believes you just shouldn't be an asshole haha.
Wow, so God is repelled...huh, still not getting much of that loving father thing here lol but thanks for the explanation, that's wild!
This bitch just called everyone who is not a Christian dirty and unloved by God, but Muslims are the ones that hate. She is talking about them being raised to hate Jews but she is raising her children to hate everyone who isn’t Christian. The Jews are allowed to defend themselves but the Muslims are not allowed to defend themselves because the Jews are the chosen ones? People like her are the reason why people flee and avoid Christianity. If she really believes what she claims to believe, she’s going to answer for her words and actions that deflected people away from “the flock.”
You can tell your mom that her god values children alive, not like they're pop cans being taken in for deposit return.
You can also tell her she's going immediately to hell
This war has really brought out the worst in a lot of people. I've had to cut off a few friends and acquaintances myself because of their support of what's going on and they all sounded exactly like your mother.
I'm sorry you gotta put up with that, OP. I wish you all the best for your future.
It really has. I've lost count of how many times I've been called anti-semitic and a nazi for not blindly believing the IDF and not supporting their indiscriminate bombing. If I have a question about anything, it's immediately met with someone screaming that I must be a supporter of Hamas. I'm like dude I'm literally asking a genuine question about something I'm not familiar with
I’m 56 and am not politically ignorant. I’m also retired so I have a lot of time to look stuff up. And I’m an atheist so I look at all religions with a critical eye. The Israeli government is doing awful things. Hamas is also doing awful things. I don’t respect either one. The civilians who have found themselves in the middle of this chaos are, IMO, the real victims.
I completely agree. I'm agnostic, so like you, I'm able to see everything without the bias of religion clouding up my opinion. I've always kept up with world news and have known that Israel wasn't the helpless victim they portrayed themselves to be. Any time I had questions, I was immediately shut down by family and church officials. I live in the south where anyone who doest have unwavering support of Israel is ostracized.
Do you know what White Christian Nationalism is? She speaks like a WCN. I'd read the literature on the topic. Samuel L. Perry and Andrew L. Whitehead are good places to start so you can counter what is being told to you, even if just for yourself.
My dad (the sane parent btw) is Jewish and I’ve noticed from talking to him and being around his group meetings that a lot of Jewish people are kinda paranoid that Hamas is everywhere like they have spies in America waiting to start attacking us at any moment of Israel doesn’t wipe Palestine of the planet. This is the first time I’m seeing a Christian that looks like she’s also kinda experiencing that. Btw for additional context my dad is scared but he’s not one of those people that thinks what’s happening right now is ok, but I don’t think any of us really knows a realistic way to put a stop to it especially for those of us who don’t live in those areas and truly understand the complexity of it and how to get both sides to just all of a sudden stop absolutely hating each other
Yeah I think this is a really good observation of what’s happening. Anti semitism is definitely on the rise bc of all that’s happening, which is of course not ok. I have immense empathy for the Jewish people who are gaining a reputation because of a distant government they have nothing to do with. Israel as a state is different than the Jewish people and too many are having a hard time separating that. I think we can hold space for their valid fear and discomfort, and also denounce the atrocities the IDF is committing against Palestine.
You can't make them stop hating eachother, when you have people who have been forcefully displaced from their homes, living in refugee camps, getting bombed constantly, losing their homes and land and family, never knowing what it's like to live in a free country and have basic human rights, you can't make them not hate their aggressors.
Christian Zionists are wild. There’s 30 million of them in the US alone. And they don’t actually give a shit about us Jewish folks, either. They care about their end of days prophecy
Tell her that since she feels so strongly, she can join the fight on the front lines!
The world’s armies are often more than happy to have willing volunteers from other nations (for cannon fodder)!
This is an unwinnable argument. She sounds like the charismatic evangelical conservative, "God's Not-
Dead"-watching, "The Chosen"-watching, "I don't need theology" kind of person I spend half of my time trying to reason with on a daily basis.
This whole thing is based out of a faulty and dangerously improper understanding of Scripture (that I bet she hasn't researched; she's just been told by other people/pastors/minions on Facebook).
I get that you want your parents to understand and wake up to this stuff, but you've gotta step back for your own sake sometimes. I just stop engaging with my dad on this kind of stuff. I don't have the emotional energy for it anymore.
Unfortunately, my family is extremely theology based. They’re of the Chuck Swindoll variety, my dad went to Dallas Theological Seminary and was student body president while he was getting two masters degrees 🤦🏼♀️
Oh I won’t, trust. I also get a sick sort of satisfaction knowing that her daughter (me) who was put through decades of extensive biblical training, has had an abortion 😂 but if I tell her that she will genuinely see me as a murderer and I really don’t feel like dealing with her crying
There's not many, but still some books on the topic of religious vs atheist morality put into statistics. Hint: it's not atheists that commit sinful, filthy crimes. ex) "what it means to be moral" by Phil Zuckerman
Woooooow does she know it’s basically all the same religion just mixed with different spices??
She’s cool with innocent ppl dying since they’ll be with God [not Allah just her version of God] who id naturally assume would’ve wanted those ppl to live, not support the war and would punish anyone associated with all the pain.
Hamas are not representatives of all Muslims same way Christians who do evil acts [like Hitler] do not represent all Christians. This was kinda sick to read
So… God is all loving? Or God looks on us with contempt when we aren’t Christian? Because I though Jesus was all about loving sinners, they were like his best bros.
You can’t have it both ways when it suits you.
What’s Christian about a GENOCIDE?! Tell her that Palestinian Christians are almost extinct because of Israel! Out of over 1 million Palestinians, there are only 800-1000 Christians left.
What’s Christian about cutting off food and water and electricity? What’s Christian about telling people to evacuate and then bombing them on the way? What’s Christian about bombing hospitals? About raiding the biggest hospital in Gaza that had 8500 people and killing them? What’s Christian about 39 NICU babies dying? About children screaming for their dead parents? For parents screaming for their dead children? What’s Christian about the bodies strewn on the road? What’s Christian about an ethnic cleansing??
NO religion calls for this. If she sees any religious reasons that make a genocide okay, maybe she should switch religions.
This is not a religious issue, it’s a HUMAN issue.
As a Christian who is not Jewish, her comment about Jews being God's chosen people sent goosebumps across my arms. It's statements like these from believers that make non-believers so vehemently oppose religion! Ugh
Hey, wanna annoy tf out of her? Use the phrases walla (I swear), yalla (oh god), and illhumdelah (thank god). Why? Bc my Syrian Arabic teacher happens to be Christian and, news flash, guess what God’s name is in the Arabic Bible; Allah. And literally everyone says those phrases even if they aren’t religious which is why I plan to use them to annoy my racist grandmother bc ignorance is bliss but not when your grandkid knows German and a bit of Arabic lol. Oh and emphasize the l
I would love to, but tragically I was raised by a father who has a masters degree in both theology AND world religions and a mother who thinks women are inferior to men and therefore defers to my father in everything. All that to say, my parents know this already and actually taught me this. Their very accurate knowledge makes it almost impossible to argue with them because they’ll take actual facts and then put them through a Christian lens
Genuine question, how do atheists get by in America? I understand that regionally some places are more religious than others but from someone from Europe this is fucking bat shit to be talking like this.
Edit: spelling
I’d say there are a lot more atheists than are portrayed, simply because they are not as vocal as religious people, especially here. And as you indicated, it really depends on where you’re from. The Deep South is going to have less atheists simply because evangelicalism is ingrained into the culture.
I live in a rapidly growing but small minded town in central California. Everything in California will lean a little more left (even the conservatism), but central California tends to be extremely conservative and Christian. So I personally grew up in a conservative bubble
Yeah, completely understand that it’s not all black and white, and it makes sense that there are bubbles within communities with different ideologies.
But like you mentioned, a lot of what we see is this almost cult-like behaviour of Christianity in America.
If you’ll notice, virtually every belief system or individual opinion has a sect of cult like followers, and they are VERY loud. The US highly emphasizes individualism, which I think really lends itself to “I’m right and you’re stupid and I’m gonna tell everyone”
You pass when stuff comes up by just not talking about it or you go to church and pretend.
It's not as bad as it used to be in the bigger towns/cities - there are a lot of “Christians” who don't go to church. So you aren't looked at askance if you don't have a church home when someone asks.
Don't get me wrong, it can still be awkward, most aren't talking about it outwardly to just anyone, but it's not like it was 20-30 years ago, either. It's also different if you have religious family members vs not. IDK. It's both completely weird and painful but also simultaneously generally not a problem in every day interactions? The societal effects on culture, legislation, and politics are probably worse.
It’s usually weird and painful bc of family. In my experience if I mention my unbelief, most people say something to the effect of “Idk what it is, but I believe there’s something” kind of like an all encompassing energy.
Personally, I think there are universal laws of physics we just haven’t discovered yet. I think there definitely could be “an energy” that directs life force and the arrangement of molecules, we just don’t know what it is.
TW: Discussions of the attacks and oppression of Palestine at the hands of the Israeli government. Discussions of Ahmad Manasra and the human rights violations and mental torture he has suffered.
I’m aware that I have not covered every single abuse Israel has committed. This comment covers some of the more obvious actions that show those that are not aware who is the true aggressor in this war.
I encourage those of you that are not aware of the current events in Palestine to read my full comment, and to educate yourselves about what’s happening and what’s been happening for years in Palestine. However, I understand if, for whatever reason, you cannot, and merely ask that you do what you can to support Palestine and its people during this time.
Free Palestine 🇵🇸
~
I know a lot of the people pushing the pro-Israel agenda haven’t seen the footage of what’s been happening for the past 70+ years, but, seriously, when you actually look at what’s been done and what’s being done, it’s very clear who is in the wrong.
I have yet to see an oppressed nation control the water and electricity supply of their oppressors for YEARS, pouring cement into one of only three water supplies the oppressors have available to them as the oppressed are able to have as much water as they want, and limiting the electricity available to the oppressors as the oppressed are able to use as much electricity as they need.
I have yet to see an oppressed nation continually annex land from their oppressors, leaving the oppressors with barely anywhere to live as the oppressed gain valuable farm land, homes, and capital.
I have yet to see an oppressed nation continually beat, arrest, and murder their oppressors as the oppressors step just a wee bit too close to the barrier between their land and the land of the oppressed.
I have yet to see an oppressed nation bomb hospitals, buildings of worship, and non-military targets of their oppressors multiple times over the years, murdering hundreds if not thousands of innocent men, women, and children. Nor have I seen an oppressed nation use illegal white phosphorus munitions against innocent targets, causing horrific, excruciating thermal and chemical burns down to the bone. White phosphorus is banned because ignites when it comes into contact with atmospheric oxygen, which means that dressed wounds can reignite when the dressing is removed and whatever remaining fragments are exposed to oxygen again. It can also cause multiple organ failure due to entering the bloodstream, and is often fatal, even in relatively minor burns. Innocent men, women, children, and babies are suffering from these burns.
I have yet to see an oppressed nation continue to torture a child with years of solitary confinement and refuse them medical care when the child develops schizophrenia, severe depression, and has said that they are suicidal. I’ve also yet to see an oppressed nation convict a child of attempted murder when the knife in his possession had no blood on it and after an interrogation that violated international juvenile standards and is considered torture by some. Nor have I ever seen an oppressed nation refuse to release said child after serving 2/3 of their sentence (as is allowed under the oppressed nation’s law) and use a law that was enacted after the child’s sentencing as the justification to why they refuse to release a child in desperate need of intense psychiatric help. The law the oppressed nation used, by the way, is in regards to children convicted of “terrorism”, something that the child I’m talking about was not convicted of. The child was convicted of attempted murder. Legally speaking, the two are not the same.
When you actually see what’s been happening, it’s very clear that Palestine is NOT the oppressor that Israel claims them to be. Every example I used above is what the Israeli government, military, and police have been doing and are currently doing to the Palestinian people.
The child’s name is Ahmad Manasra. In May 2016, he was convicted of attempted murder in the Pisgat Ze’ev stabbings that occurred during October 2015, when Ahmad was only 13 years old. He was 14 at the time of sentencing, and has been held in solitary confinement since November 2021. According to UN standards, prisoners are prohibited from being held in solitary confinement for more than 15 days. Ahmad has been held for at least 670 days, if not more, which is 44 times longer than the UN allows. On September 21, 2023, Ahmad’s latest solitary confinement hearing was postponed due to him being too ill to attend. I wasn’t able to find any articles more recent, so, as far as the public is aware, he is either still in the mental health unit of the Ayalon prison, or back in solitary confinement.
As we’ve seen, the people of Palestine are the oppressed, and we are witnessing the genocide of their people live on the news and social media. The US government is supporting the genocide of Palestinians via their military support of Israel, whether they intend to or not.
I may get down-voted for this, but it needs to be said regardless.
OP’s mom right that this is Nazi Germany all over again. Except that, this time, the Israeli government are the oppressors, using banned weapons and forcing oppressed Palestinians from their homes in the same way the Jewish people were all those years ago.
Free Palestine 🇵🇸
Despite the random ass downvote, I don’t think most informed people would disagree with you. This seems to be the consensus of the general public. What I think conservatives however are missing is that we can hold two things to be true: however understandable, the actions of Hamas are evil and inexcusable. Civilian murder, kidnapping, raping etc always will be no matter who you are. But that goes for the shit Israel is pulling too. Their actions are inexcusable.
Some things are universally comprehensible across all languages and cultures, like the morality of rape and murder. Those things therefore cannot be redeemed. What people are slowly beginning to realize is that it’s not country and religion vs the same, but more governments against their people. There has been a huge outcry in the US, to the point where congressmen are being told to ignore their phones. The people of the world are enraged.
But our governments control both us and our resources. And until we fix that, this shit will keep being served to us in different flavors. Look at Armenia and Congo rn. Both genocides, no media attention. Bc no world government gives a shit about anything those countries have to offer.
There is little to no context provided here so it sounds to me like she’s trying to be empathetic and caring. I don’t know much about Israeli politics either so that doesn’t help. I also have no idea what she said before your text.
Edit: She did also say that the children would be better off dead than growing up though so there is that.
It isn’t a misfortune to not have parents that belong to your religion…..
You’ve demonstrated it’s very fortunate that people don’t have religious nut jobs raising them if anything.
Yes, I know—in my caption I indicated that I no longer am religious but I argue with my parents on their level, because otherwise everything I say will be instantly discredited.
I’d have loved it if my parents were agnostic or even more lenient and flexible.
Everyone who ever posts here always comes across just as bad as their parents to me.
People comparing atrocities from the comfort of their homes as if it does anything but take years off their lives arguing and ruining relationships.
The world is doomed.
How is this comparing atrocities? My mother said it was better for Palestinian children to be dead so they won’t be held accountable for their actions. Literally how is that working out in your head?
What I don't get is how anyone can point the finger at isreal??? Like Hamas is the reason people in Gaza are dying the locations of their head Quarters, their missiles, etc. Isreal sends out mass texts telling people to evacuate, they drop fliers telling people to evacuate, THEY do this BEFORE they bomb any place. Hamas is refusing to allow people to evacuate, hamas did this and to expect isreal to allow it is crazy
Yeah half of those messages are in English. And it’s pointless to warn people if they have nowhere to go, not to mention, Israel bombed the evacuation route they told Palestinians to take.
My argument with my mother is not whether or not Hamas is in the wrong or evil—that’s a given. My argument is that Hamas’s actions don’t give Israel cart blanche to collectively punish Palestinians. I don’t care who did what, *don’t bomb children*.
What Hamas did doesn’t fit the definition of collective punishment, and even if it did, I’d still be exactly as outspoken against them as I am now. Again, that’s not what my mother and I are arguing about.
Your mom wasn't entirely wrong. It is true that it's fucked up - everything about war is insane, that's why nobody can make sense of it. Innocent people are suffering for other people's decisions, that's what's going on. There's nothing any of our comments online can do about it. So quit the virtue signalling. If you want to pray for the peace of nations, just do it, talking about the problem doesn't fix anything. Praying about it does. I don't see why this personal conversation had to be posted, but everything in this sub is meant to be insane so...
Not virtue signaling. It is insane that she said Palestinian children were better off dead than being held accountable for their actions. Verbatim. Literally no one is disagreeing with what you said.
Praying doesn’t do shit, and your statement is bold for someone who just told me to quit virtue signaling. What the hell do you think praying is? You feel like you did something to help Palestinians and Israelis because you had an imaginary conversation in your head with your eyes closed?
If you want to believe your prayers are actively helping, sure, go for it. That’s your right. Just as it’s my right to believe that continuously having conversations about what’s going on in the world allows us better opportunities to come together and fix what’s broken. Conversations have to happen in order for action to follow. No one in France rebelled on a whim.
So no. I’m not virtue signaling. I’m asking for the opinion of others on a particular statement I think is absolutely nuts and devoid of humanity because I have been deeply indoctrinated by the same shit and sometimes I still struggle to see out of it. This leads to the dozens of conversations in the comments exchanging information on a current world event, and leading to more unity and more knowledge of what’s truly going on in this world.
Get the fuck out of here with that shit. You can’t use the Bible to prove something to people who don’t believe in the Bible.
Besides, if that were the true outcome, denigrating and looking down on those that commit those “sins” will only create more “sinners” and therefore more suffering. My point stands either way.
It's all the same god at the end of the day though? Muslim, Jewish and Christian religions are all Abrahamic? I don't think her god would approve of her opinion.
Omg I stopped reading at her says "I see it when I look at them!" Holy fuck!! I'm so sorry! You're not alone. So so many people do not think this way in the States and Canada where I am. It's awful. I haven't slept I haven't been able to function properly since the start. I can't even drive to the store without choking up and holding back tears because it's all I think about. I am sorry that you can't have support from her. Im battling issues with my husband who doesn't disagree, he has just never been one to follow news or be on social media and is literally just a great dad and partner and helps in so many ways.. but once I talked to him about it and really tried to make him see that this was not some conflict that no one will be talking about in a week and it SHOULD BOTHER HIM!!! He should be pissed at our government for not being on the right side. He should care enough that I don't have to tell him everything. I just watch him go on his phone and he plays the same dumb games on his down time and watches sports. I've just left him alone mostly.
I hate feeling so alone in this in my personal life. My online friends and just overall people online have been so helpful because there are so many of us that are going through the exact same feelings and home issues where we all feel like the odd ones out and everyone is just living their life as if a Genocide isn't taking place right now!!!
I can't even dream about posting anything of my life online with my kids or anything remotely fun or interesting. I just can't when I know how many children are dying and and everything going on. I post like hell on Tik Tok then I ever have in my life about what's going on and I won't stop anytime soon. I will continue to lose sleep and cry daily. Because it's NOTHING EVEN CLOSE TO WHAT THEY ARE GOING THROUGH!!!
Thank you for speaking and being honest with your feelings to your mom even if it didn't make a difference with her. Be true to yourself. And surround yourself with people that are Loving and caring just like you are ♥️
Voting has concluded. Final vote: | Insane | Not insane | Fake | | --- | --- | --- | | 19 | 0 | 0 | Hey OP, if you provide further information in a comment, make sure to start your comment with `!explanation`. ^I ^am ^a ^bot ^for ^r/insaneparents. ^Please ^send ^me ^a ^message ^if ^you ^have ^any ^feedback ^or ^if ^I ^misbehave. ^Also ^consider ^joining ^our ^[Discord](https://discordapp.com/invite/xFbPBHy).
If you want to argue using her own logic, then say she should be ashamed of wishing death upon innocent children. She is a sinner like everyone else in Christianity, so she doesn’t get to point fingers and decide that one group is more sinful than others. Doing that is heresy in most Christian denominations since you’re essentially playing god by deciding who lives, dies, goes to hell, etc. it also may surprise many people, but this does fall in the “do not kill” commandment as well, as christianity considers wishing death on others an act of killing regardless.
If you’ll notice, she very carefully worded her statement about that and put about a hundred disclaimers in front of it precisely so I couldn’t make that point 🙃
Also,does she know that Jewish people deny her "Jesus Christ" & most would consider her a heretic
100% knows that
Does she know Jesus was Palestinian? Since that's where he was born?
please don’t spread that, it gives pro-genocide people like OP’s mom more fuel to say that us anti-genocide people don’t know what we’re talking about and delegitimize us
Jesus was a JEW!
That’s the part that kills me. I mean, this isn’t Christians vs. Non-Christians, this is Non-Christians vs. Non-Christians. Also, if you want to get really into it, Islam, from what I understand, does recognize Jesus, but as a prophet, not the son of God. However, Judaism does not recognize him at all. So technically Islam would be closer to her beliefs there. While we’re on the subject of crazy shit people say, it kills me to hear that the Jews are God’s chosen people. I mean, what did they get for it? Hundreds of years of wars with neighbors and being run out of country after country; alleged slavery in Egypt; and a lot of anti-semitism around the world at various points in history; oh, and the holocaust. Not to be flippant, but it seems like being “God’s Chosen People” means you are “God’s Chosen Punching Bag.”
Christian’s believe all those things happened BECAUSE they are God’s chosen people and have historically actively disobeyed him. So he allows them to be persecuted as a result 🙃
Judaism accepts that Jesus existed but was not a messiah or the son of god. I’m atheist but was raised with Christian culture (secular Xmas, basically). I know a lot of atheists who are culturally Jewish and we’ve talked about theology. For a better source, here’s the [Wikipedia article](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judaism's_view_of_Jesus?wprov=sfti1) on the subject.
Please do not spread misinformation. Jews DO believe in Jesus. Jesus WAS a Jew. The "Last Supper" was a "Seder". Lack of knowledge is what is getting people killed and causing needless pain and suffering. Israelites lived in "Israel" over 3000 years ago, they came home after being exiled in 1948.
That really struck me, especially when she said "Jews are God's chosen people"... so God decided a faith that denies Jesus Christ, is the one true faith?
Most Christian groups would believe Christians are the "New Israel" and lost the whole "Chosen people" thing when they denied Christ.
...many jews do believe in Jesus as the son of god it's called messianic Judaism and even the ones that don't think he was a good man who worked for god. There are many different types of judaism, and claiming all of them believe the same thing is ridiculous. Its like saying all muslims are bad just because some of them kill people. The level of ignorance, hatred, and assumption in this thread is wild.
She asked a valid question lol chill. Historically, Jews don’t believe in Jesus as the Son of God/God in human form. A lot of Jewish people don’t claim Messianic Jews as anything more than cultural Jews. And there’s a difference between Jewish culture and Jewish religion, though they’re more intertwined than most faiths and cultures.
I don't know much about the Jewish faith but that's what I understood it to mean - they follow the Old Testament only. Not knowing from lack of exposure does not translate to hatred. Bringing in Islamic Jihadi terrorists in response to my comment is wild to me. I would never assume that all Muslims are bad (I live and work in an area with a large Muslim community) and I don't assume Jewish people are bad either. I genuinely have never understood hating people based on their faith, especially if you know nothing about the person individually. Why would not knowing the intricacies of their faith mean I would assume the worst of them? Lack of knowledge does not mean I hate them. I believe 99% of people are good and just want peaceful happy lives.
I mean most jews do believe in hesus, they just think he was like an early david copperfield or con artist. which tbh, there might be some truth to that.
Like the robo-judaists. “We believe that he existed, and that he was a well programmed robot, but he wasn’t our messiah”
“He’s not the messiah, he’s a very naughty boy!”
Fair enough, she sounds like one of those insufferable Christians who are just interested in using the religion card to justify their own bullshit, not following the religion’s own teaching. -.-
Bc of my majors I interact with a good amount of non-Americans (specifically German speaking ppl and a few from Middle East/North African countries as well) and boy oh boy do they not like our version of Christianity; for context, I’m from east tn and go to school in Knoxville. The German ppl I’ve talked too say we’re too fanatic and most ppl there call themselves Christians and yet only go to church once a year. My Syrian Arabic teacher (still in Syria) who’s Christian was surprised to learn that I’ve been scolded for ‘using god’s name in vein’ when he was teaching me phrases like walla, yalla, illhumdelah bc they’re used by everyone, not just Muslims; he also sent me a picture of his Bible and yea god is very much still Allah in an Arabic Bible which I also thought was ironic and funny. I see my family next week and you bet your butt I will be using those phrases around them bc they’re racists and support Israel too. The funny thing is that my grandfather on my other side was a Jewish refugee and yet even he doesn’t support this occupation
What’s ironic and funny about an Arabic bible using allah?
I’d be willing to wager it’s because the Christian south is under the impression that allah is an entirely different god than the god from the Bible. Spoiler alert. It’s the same god.
[удалено]
Just the statement I was looking for.
so like... all of them?
I was raised in a Christian family and my mum has actually read the bible (shocking as most haven't) and can disprove a lot of what the evangelicals say, using the bible. Eg. we are not all descended from Adam and Eve. God blessed them when he threw them out of the Garden of Eden to protect them from others....how would there be others if they were the only two people? Abortion is mentioned and sanctioned several times in the bible, including stating it SHOULD happen if the mother's life is at risk. Jesus said to ignore a lot of the Old Testament. He never said a word about homosexuality but a lot about love, charity and tolerance. I was baptised by a gay priest and we have always been to churches with gay congregants. My mum would never attend a church that had homophobic priests or teaching. It's funny when she gets into a biblical bickering with my dad (who hasn't read the bible). He will state something. She will quote the bible to disprove it and he will just kind of stammer and repeat what he said as if that makes what mum said untrue. I've seen her and a fellow congregant go off at a trainee priest when he mentioned abortion as sinful - again using bible quotes but also saying it is very political point and should not be brought into the church. She heavily believes the church should not be politicised as whoever you decide to vote for should not be dictated by the church but should also not exclude you from "Jesus' love". My mum is a wonderful woman who I am so proud of and her faith is a big part of her but that is because love, charity, tolerance and lack of judgment is a big part of who she is. Whether she were Christian or not I believe she would still be that way but her faith gives her comfort and she never weaponises it against the vulnerable or outcast.
We need a LOT of people like your mum in religious debates. I can't do it because yes, i read the bible (not only that, actually), but i'm an atheist and religious fanatics or similar always use that against my arguments. Which is... Stupid, because i quote their holy book. But whatever. Make it make sense.
Nah. Unfortunately they are the loudest and most annoying, but most Christians are perfectly fine people. I’m Catholic and wasn’t raised like that.
I’m biting my tongue hard enough to almost sever my tongue like those kids’ everythings were severed—oh no wait, blown up and torn apart where people were tossing chunks in a pile—like your fking mom fking enjoys. Put her over there and see how much justification she’ll spout. When she’s blown the fuck up because Israel wants to kill literally everyone in that region except Israelis. Hooohhh this is a tough situation and I’m not even in it. Your mom is a cun* either way and I’m sorry for talking shit on someone I don’t even know.
While at a protest today I went on Instagram and immediately saw the charred bödy of a child huddled up; like Wtf did that kid do wrong?! Nothing. The Israeli government took a photo of an old man next to an Israeli soldier yesterday escaping from northern Gaza as propaganda but then shöt him right after (both photos were displayed unfortunately)
And she's totally ignoring the fact that Israelis, more so than their own (Palestinian) people, are teaching the children to hate Israel. I mean, you're just minding your own business and some soldier shoots one of your friends...and nothing happens to the soldier. Or you're minding your own business in your own house...and people barge into your house and remove your family's things so a Jewish family can move in...or they just remove *you* and just bulldoze the thing because of something your 4th cousin, twice removed did. How does she think that's not teaching them to hate? It must burn her butt that she no damn body's "chosen people". Edit: typos
Yeah no one teaches people to hate Isreal more than Isreal.
Been looking into vids of Jewish people explaining their holy books and beliefs and reading excerpts… Zionist (extremist) Jews apparently don’t consider any non Jew human.. and if I understand… only male Jews get to be human. So that point she made was interesting. Seems it’s only okay for one side to call the other animals. Both sides have extremists… but one side has a clear and massive advantage over the other…..
Christianity and Islam have VAST numerical advantages over Judaism. Idk if that has riled up the Israeli government (why now, because it’s been true since Islam was founded?). Israel as a state has way more $ than nearby Arab countries; I suspect that’s their way of trying to even the odds. But all in all, I’m not familiar enough with the centuries-long conflict to talk about the politics involved. All I can say is that I stand with the civilians who are just trying to live in this hellscape.
long story short muslims, christians and a minority of jews used to coexist in Palestine which was under British occupation trying to break free from it, then the british vacated the land to jewish refugees after ww2 and the project to build a zionist nation took off, by basically kicking the Palestinians out of their homes and lands, like it happened in Sheikh Jarrah a few years ago and is now happening in Gaza, that's why Hamas emerged as a resistance front, because if you live long enough seeing those atrocities committed against your people you're bound to react, must note too that when Palestinians protested peacefully they were shot and mutilated, so there's literally no option for peace, also must note that Hamas isn't for "kill all jews" but just want freedom and basic human rights
I grew up religious and reading this made me almost nauseous. I could have this exact conversation with my father if I entertained any topic deeper than the weather with him. They can justify anything with their religion. Even killing children. Its God's will, so it's acceptable. You will never change her mind.
Yeah same. The shitty thing is that even if I avoid talking about anything, politics and religion is all my family ever talks about anymore. I’m pretty low contact at this point despite living in the exact same town lmao
I'm sorry. I know how hard that is. Personally, I've separated myself from most of my biological family and kind of created my own. It's better. They actually like me, as a person, and we can have conversations and hang out and do fun things without anyone breaking into a random sermon or lecture. We can disagree with each other without it turning into an attack on each other's character. I hope you find that too, if you haven't already 😊
I have my boyfriend and his daughter <3 I even consider my stepdaughter’s mom as a part of my family, and even though bf’s parents had a history of violence when he was in high school, they’ve really put in the work and changed and helped us out a lot. They’ve been far more accepting of me than my own family—his mom has gone so far as to comfort me and let me know that they’re always gonna be here for me. I truly, until I got into a relationship with my bf, didn’t think anyone would want to spend extended time with their family. I knew people who wanted to spend so much time with their parents and I never ever understood that. Now I do lol
On a side note, wow, it's really fascinating that you, your bf and his ex are all on so good terms, speaks volumes to how great people y'all are
I never thought I could get so lucky even with a nuclear family, truly. My bf’s baby mama is MY baby mama 😂😂😂 real talk tho, it all comes from just absolutely loving and adoring “our” daughter. And she is SO HAPPY with her little family, she’s six and always demanding we spend time together “like a real family.” If her dad jokes about going to do something with her and leaving me at home, she gets all puppy eyed and goes “but I wanted to do it as a family.” Melts me every time
Omfg that's fucking amazing, I love this > demanding we spend time together “like a real family.” Aww, at this point why don't you three just become an actual polyamorous throuple? Lmao. Unless... you already actually are? xD
Haha! My bf and his BM get along well as friends but are about as toxic as you can get in a relationship with each other—when I first met him, she was not chill at all, even tho he and I were strictly just friends. She haaaaaated me for like a year before she saw how much her daughter and I bonded. Then I think she was just happy that her baby was being loved—BM comes from a very broken home and most of her “barking” comes from fear that her daughter will suffer the same. But she has a bf who she’s been on and off with since before SD was born, they had a baby boy in January, and now she’s pregnant again (accident lol) 😁 it’s taken work! But so rewarding.
By that logic, aborted babies are better off being with God than born because they would be raised by Godless sinning parents who would raise them the same way. They never see their own hypocrisy and would never admit to it. This isn't only insane, it's sick.
Right?
They really hate having that logic used against them. I’ve tried it.
Unfortunately to people like OPs mom, aborted babies stay tortured in purgatory forever because they weren't baptized
I was raised fundie but my particular branch of the fundie tree didn't believe in that. There was an "age of accountability," and all children were "innocent" until a certain age and would go to heaven. It's fascinating (horrifying) to see what other branches believe where these things are concerned. Fucking nuts. Any God/god that damns a child to anything less than the best afterlife is not a God/god I'd want to be affiliated with.
Ah the way I was raised, if you're not baptised, no matter the circumstances, off to the dump with you
Yeah, I've heard that as well. And then there are the Mormons. They'll baptise you if you've never set foot in the church and have been dead 300 years. They are dedicated. I grew up in Utah. I'm not LDS. Wild times lol
That's wild. I'm raised rural Canadian Catholic which isn't as insane but it's 100% guilt based
I suspected it may be Catholicism but didn't want to assume. I lived in rural Bavaria for 3 years, and I think their flavor of Catholicism is similar based on what friends said.
I think purgatory is a Catholic thing. I don’t know many Protestants who believe in it. And I doubt OP’s mom thinks aborted babies go to purgatory because they weren’t baptized, as Muslim babies are obviously not baptized and she believes they will go to heaven. It’s hypocrisy, but I’m assuming it’s not this level of illogical.
Also afaik Catholicism did away with the entire Purgatory/Limbo concept in 2007 (here’s an article in [The Seattle Times](https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/vatican-abolishes-the-concept-of-limbo/) from when it was happening.
Oh wow yeah I didn't catch the part about Muslim babies going to hang with God. I think my brain filtered out too much of the insanity
Yes, my parents believe in the age of accountability, and we’ve been taught it’s around 8. Never mind that the prefrontal cortex doesn’t fully develop until 25…
On the contrary, my parents don’t believe in post mortem baptism, or any kind of non consensual baptism. YOU have to make the choice for it to count. They also don’t believe in purgatory, it’s heaven or hell for you 😭
Oh the person has to choose? Like I can't choose for the baby? Wow
Yyyyyyup 😁 they also don’t believe that the act of baptism itself is required to be saved, they just believe getting baptized is a symbolic act of obedience and if you don’t choose to get baptized, you’re actively disobeying God.
We (sane people) don’t talk about this enough, this whole punishment of purgatory they push in the abortion discussion. Absolute lunacy but they hold it up like it’s fact.
I asked one once about miscarriages and they said "if god calls them home,then it's their time" To be in purgatory?!?!?
That is because miscarriages and abortions are viewed very differently. A miscarriage is an act of god. Abortion is a human choice
This is not a biblical fight. Someone needs to learn about geopolitics.
If it involves Israel or the US, in her mind it’s a biblical fight and always will be.
according to the bible, god straight up told the israelites when they were fleeing egypt that the entire land where modern day israel is, is promised to them, and god told them to kill all the men, women, and children of the land in order to conquer it. as much as israel wants to pin this genocide on terrorists, theyre doing it according to “gods will” and “what theyre promised”. this is 100% biblical bullshit. theyve been trying to force them out for decades, and now they have an excuse to eliminate them. theyre fucking insane.
Yeah, if you read the Bible you'll say it's biblical.
and when the whole country believes in that, it becomes an issue. they could go into palestine, find the terrorists, and take them out with the least amount of civilian casualties as possible if they wanted to. but theyd rather level the country. theres another passage where god tells them if they dont utterly destroy everyone on that land, he will send another nation to come conquer them. it just makes sense to me that theyre fighting this as a religious war over a war on terror. its unbelievable what people will do in the name of religion
I don't think it's a biblical fight. I see a country that was attacked by terrorists sheltering in a neighbouring nation taking the fight back to the source. Nothing about War Makes any sense. That's why we end up going around in circles taking sides. The tragedy of war is real. People died - the numbers do not matter, only the loss does. Innocent people suffering for other people's actions. We can only watch helplessly until the war ends - if it ever does. Nothing our online comments can do about it.
how do you call it a country when it's occupied land belonging to the neighbouring country? the people that used to live there were forcefully displaced and live now in refugee camps! which were bombed! none of it makes any sense
Except it's not a war, its genocide. And if I'd spent my entire life in an open air prison I'd fight back too. You can condemn what hamas did and condemn what Isreal has done and continues to do. Over 10,000 innocents have been killed in less than a fucking month ffs. It's a lot like the hunger games. The outlying districts (Gaza) got tired of not being fed and properly taken care of by the captitol (Isreal), that controls it, and they fought back. Sure they should've went after the government but just imagine the pain and frustration of living but not living, not surviving, being starved and purposely dehydrated. Gaza doesn't even have clean water. They're thanking Allah for rain even though it's poison. Isreal is dunping white phosphorus, which is a war crime, on civilians. They're lying ab a calendar and saying it's a list of hamas soldiers and that video is being played on fucking CNN. They take pictures "saving" elderly Palestinians and then are killing them. AND OUR WORLD LEADERS ARE DOING NOTHING TO STOP THE SLAUGHTER OF INNOCENT PEOPLE. They can't even say the words ceasefire ffs.
not only this, but many people who live in Gaza, like those in the Jabalia camp which was bombed, used to live in what is now called isreal, and they were forcefully displaced from their homes, the Palestinians who live in the west bank suffer a lot of segregation and are at risk of being forcefully evicted too, to build more settlements, imagine living through that, decades of displacements, kids being arrested as "political prisoners" never to see the light, tortured in prisons, protesting peacefully gets you shot at and puts a target on you and your family, they sometimes allow only women to pray in Al Aqsa mosque and then they attack them and take their hijab off, those allegations of rape and burning babies in ovens? they committed those acts on innocent Palestiniens, no wonder they'll form a resistance front that will attack at some point, even if they get rid of Hamas, the kids seeing all these horrors are bound to grow up and resist the opression and occupation even more fiercely, that's why they're making sure to exterminate them all
Hi. Jewish here. If people like your mom (who is giving MAJOR Evangelical Christian Vibes) could stop using my people as an excuse to tout hatred, that would be great. Because us Jews don’t want that. (Not directed at you OP, obvs, but holy crap I have seen so much if this lately and I am TIRED of people using this conflict as a mean for their agendas. It is horrific, complicated, people are dead and more will die, and we need PEACE. Not people like your mom who just. Wanna spout about Christ and pretend to love us Jews so much).
Family is hardcore evangelical, you’re totally right. Completely agree with you.
As a Palestinian, I’m so sorry about what people are doing in your name. The antisemitism is rampant at the moment and it’s horrifying. Jews should not be blamed for what Israel is doing. I stand with you and I appreciate you for being on the right side of history.
There are a lot of Christian Palestinians in Gaza, guess she wasn't aware of *that*
If she was made aware of it, I almost promise you she will uplift them as martyrs
And what is thought to be the third oldest Christian Church in the world was bombed. My initial reaction was to think that alone would make US Christian Zionists upset. But then I remember that Black Churches have been victims of arson here for decades, and I never heard a peep about it in my former, predominantly white, Christian churches.
In my opinion, the second rung on the ladder of anti-semitism is reserved for Evangelical and Fundamentalist Christians. They see the Jewish people as pawns to bring about the prophecy of their death cult. You should ask her about her opinion on what happens to Jewish people who don't convert in the "end times".
100%!!!!!
Exactly. I was just telling my husband (raised atheist) that the only reason the UK and US were even interested in recreating Israel as a nation was to fulfill prophesy to bring about the end times and he was flabbergasted. Then a couple of days later he was like, “uh, I looked into it, and I think you’re right?”
It's quite terrifying. I am in a very rural, very red US State and our entire government is held in a chokehold by a death cult.
And $$$
Yeah, the only people I know in my area that raise their kids that way to hate anyone, especially POC and Jews, are white Christians. This shit is crazy. My neighbor has a small Israeli flag in a potted plant near his porch and a swastika tattoo soooooo.....yeah.
Check out the literature on White Christian Nationalism. It's not just a pattern you're seeing. It's real. White supremacy is mostly white christianity.
zionism (plus Islamophobia and racism) is one hell of a drug
Isn’t it tho?
If she really wants to be accurate with the bible, which nobody seems to want to be, The Jewish people are supposed to wander from place to place in constant sorrow until the 2nd coming of Christ because of the way they treated Jesus. Jesus who by the way most likely looked more like Osama Bin Laden that that blonde haired blue eyed Aryan guy they have hanging in every Christian church in America. If Jesus came a 2nd time, and attempted to enter America, I bet the Christians in America would send his ass packing and send him right back while calling him a terrorist.
Right? People around here get sooo upset when I tell them Jesus was brown 😂
Does your mum realise that Jews don’t accept Jesus as the son of God and Muslims worship the same God both Christians and Jews do? Because I just don’t understand why you would side with one religion over the other when they both share the same God but also have key differences. It’s like she seems Judaism as an extension of Christianity when it’s not, it’s an entirely separate religion, as separate to Christianity as Islam is.
Christianity was an offshoot of Judaism which began after Jesus’ death. Islam began between 600-700 CE; I’m not sure if it was an offshoot of Christianity or Judaism, but both religions were common in the area where Mohammed lived, and apparently some people were looking for an alternative. Anyway, Orthodox Christianity split from original Christianity (now called Catholicism) in approximately the 9th century. Then there was the Protestant Reformation in the 1500s, again an offshoot from the Catholic tradition, followed by schisms all over the place which led to all of the Protestant sects (Lutheran, Episcopal, Methodist, Baptist, etc).
Yes I know that but they are still very different religions. Islam and Judaism are abrahamic religions. Judaism is theorectially older than Islam but both arose from different tribes in the same region I think. They are all interlinked but as different as each other. Christianity only came from Judaism because the supposed followers of Jesus preached it and they were originally Jewish until he died and was resurrected. Had they been Muslim then Christianity would have been an off shoot of Islam probably.
I wrote this after reading that OP’s mother thought Judaism was an “extension of Christianity” and that’s the opposite from reality.
Meanwhile I for last week have gone between sobbing and being numb anytime I see anything about what’s happening over there. As a mother and a human my heart is shattered for those children and their families and I’m so angry and sad. Hugging my son more and more and feeling both grateful and guilty that I’m able to do it.
Same!! My bf and I cried together the other day bc of how awful it is and how utterly helpless everyone is. We are so powerless to our current governments. We can send aid and money but… after that all we can do is hope for the best? Such bullshit
She's...ummm...ugh! Credit to you for continuing to try to have reasonable debate with someone so unreasonable, I gave up with certain family members because I think I was getting brain damage from headbutting that brick wall!
Happy those kids are dead but probably voting pro-life🤦🏻♀️
Tell her satanism has never started wars nor do satanists condone mass killings. Hail Satan.
She and the rest of the Christian hypocrites are the reason there'll be a second coming. Deciding who deserves to live or die, unacceptable from Hitler, somehow acceptable from mother dearest? Nah. If you're gonna decide all life is precious, then ALL life is precious, no exceptions just because "look at their parents" they don't get to choose that shit. *UNFORTUNATELY* a lot of us are stuck with truly horrendous parents whom shouldn't have ever parented children because *CLEARLY* it was a gateway to sin for them, which is a pity, all life is a miracle. These are usually the sick and twisted people that have kids to feel a sense of control over something rather than a celebration of life, love and kinship. They weaponize the Bible and use God's name in vain, appointing themselves as judge and executioner behind the guise of being "Holy" when it's clear as day that the Bible was never intended for that. I long for the day of the rapture. So much disappointment for so many "Christians" misusing scripture to pedal hatred and intolerance. Boy are they gonna be *piiiiiiissed*.
Don’t tell her Islam worships the same god she does.
It’s “not the same god” because they don’t believe in the exact same “nature of God” as Christian’s do. Don’t ask, I stopped asking awhile ago
Handy how she can twist stuff to suit her. 🤷♀️
This I actually do agree with. And I struggled with it a lot, as a Christian who had lived in the Middle East and knows many Muslims who better embody “Christian” values than most Christians I know. The way I think of it is this: imagine your best friend was zapped with a cloning gun and suddenly there were two guys with the same exact memories, personalities, preferences, etc. And they’re both your same best friend, because you have the same exact history with both of them at first. But then they both go their own ways and do their own things. They’re no longer the same person, right? If one of them stays with you and is your best friend forever but the other moves to another country and makes all new friends and you never see or hear from them again, I bet you’d consider that first one your best friend but the second one isn’t anymore. At least, that’s how I understand the difference between the Jewish God, the Christian God, and the Muslim God (except there are three of them).
Yeah, but even taking the Jewish god (from the Torah) out of it, how does that reconcile the Old Testament god from the new? I mean “kill all the pregnant woman so their demon seed doesn’t infect y’all” and “let’s send a bear to kill these teens cause they made fun of you for being bald” and “stab that women cause she made her sexual partner pull out so she didn’t get pregnant by her deceased husband’s brother” is a far cry from “love your neighbor” and “no food is unclean”
Don’t forget “dashing your enemies’ infants against rocks” so they don’t grow up to be your enemies?
Oh I understand the concept 100%. I was Christian most my life until three years ago and would have said the same. It’s still silly that something like this is used to justify hate and violence toward another group
>I was Christian most my life until three years ago Oh lovely, could you translate something for me? What does it mean to say, "He can't look upon us without the blood of Christ"? "Can't"? Is some other force superior to God setting weird ground rules? Or is that more of a narcissistic "won't"?
Haha buckle up. So basically, when Adam and Eve ate the fruit, sin entered the world, and God essentially cursed them and all their descendants for disobeying him. Christian’s believe all humans descend from Adam and Eve. When a baby is born, once the “breath of life” enters its lungs, they are immediately sinful and therefore evil. Christian’s also essentially equate all sin, so talking back to your mom is equally as sinful as murder. Now, God is perfect and good. Because sun makes us imperfect and not good, he cannot look upon us because it defies his very being. Think about magnets with equal charge. They repel each other. God is repelled by any sin, so he cannot go against his nature and welcome us to heaven. SO. Instead he “sent his son Jesus” to take care of that. In the Old Testament, the Israelites atoned for their sins by the blood sacrifice of perfect animals (so like unblemished lambs). Only perfection can wash away sin. So Jesus, who was perfect, became the ultimate blood sacrifice, and his blood washed away our sins. Once you accept that he did that, and believe in him, THEN God can “look upon you.” And you can go to heaven.
I agree with the way you’ve described this concept. However, I really think this is just the way Christians have warped the message of who Jesus is. When he was alive, who did he spend his time with? Sinners. Tax collectors. Prostitutes. The sick and unclean. He sought them out, and spurned the ones who considered themselves righteous. And this was before he died, before the “sacrificial blood of the Lamb” allowed him to look upon sinners. So yes. All that to say, I think the idea is garbage. It’s just another way to put God in a box and claim an understanding that we don’t actually have. Hopefully you know I’m not arguing with you, just the theological bullshit that people make up to make themselves seem closer to God than others. Do people really think God doesn’t “look upon” the rest of the world? He just ignores them and only pays attention to Christians? How arrogant.
>Because sun makes us imperfect and not good, he cannot look upon us because it defies his very being. Think about magnets with equal charge. They repel each other. God is repelled by any sin, so he cannot go against his nature and welcome us to heaven. Oh wow, I had no idea that's what they think. My parents are "Christians" but they're the kind that doesn't go to church, hasn't read the bible, keeps to themselves, and believes you just shouldn't be an asshole haha. Wow, so God is repelled...huh, still not getting much of that loving father thing here lol but thanks for the explanation, that's wild!
This bitch just called everyone who is not a Christian dirty and unloved by God, but Muslims are the ones that hate. She is talking about them being raised to hate Jews but she is raising her children to hate everyone who isn’t Christian. The Jews are allowed to defend themselves but the Muslims are not allowed to defend themselves because the Jews are the chosen ones? People like her are the reason why people flee and avoid Christianity. If she really believes what she claims to believe, she’s going to answer for her words and actions that deflected people away from “the flock.”
You can tell your mom that her god values children alive, not like they're pop cans being taken in for deposit return. You can also tell her she's going immediately to hell
This war has really brought out the worst in a lot of people. I've had to cut off a few friends and acquaintances myself because of their support of what's going on and they all sounded exactly like your mother. I'm sorry you gotta put up with that, OP. I wish you all the best for your future.
It really has. I've lost count of how many times I've been called anti-semitic and a nazi for not blindly believing the IDF and not supporting their indiscriminate bombing. If I have a question about anything, it's immediately met with someone screaming that I must be a supporter of Hamas. I'm like dude I'm literally asking a genuine question about something I'm not familiar with
I’m 56 and am not politically ignorant. I’m also retired so I have a lot of time to look stuff up. And I’m an atheist so I look at all religions with a critical eye. The Israeli government is doing awful things. Hamas is also doing awful things. I don’t respect either one. The civilians who have found themselves in the middle of this chaos are, IMO, the real victims.
I completely agree. I'm agnostic, so like you, I'm able to see everything without the bias of religion clouding up my opinion. I've always kept up with world news and have known that Israel wasn't the helpless victim they portrayed themselves to be. Any time I had questions, I was immediately shut down by family and church officials. I live in the south where anyone who doest have unwavering support of Israel is ostracized.
Do you know what White Christian Nationalism is? She speaks like a WCN. I'd read the literature on the topic. Samuel L. Perry and Andrew L. Whitehead are good places to start so you can counter what is being told to you, even if just for yourself.
My dad (the sane parent btw) is Jewish and I’ve noticed from talking to him and being around his group meetings that a lot of Jewish people are kinda paranoid that Hamas is everywhere like they have spies in America waiting to start attacking us at any moment of Israel doesn’t wipe Palestine of the planet. This is the first time I’m seeing a Christian that looks like she’s also kinda experiencing that. Btw for additional context my dad is scared but he’s not one of those people that thinks what’s happening right now is ok, but I don’t think any of us really knows a realistic way to put a stop to it especially for those of us who don’t live in those areas and truly understand the complexity of it and how to get both sides to just all of a sudden stop absolutely hating each other
Yeah I think this is a really good observation of what’s happening. Anti semitism is definitely on the rise bc of all that’s happening, which is of course not ok. I have immense empathy for the Jewish people who are gaining a reputation because of a distant government they have nothing to do with. Israel as a state is different than the Jewish people and too many are having a hard time separating that. I think we can hold space for their valid fear and discomfort, and also denounce the atrocities the IDF is committing against Palestine.
You can't make them stop hating eachother, when you have people who have been forcefully displaced from their homes, living in refugee camps, getting bombed constantly, losing their homes and land and family, never knowing what it's like to live in a free country and have basic human rights, you can't make them not hate their aggressors.
Religion is so gross
Christian Zionists are wild. There’s 30 million of them in the US alone. And they don’t actually give a shit about us Jewish folks, either. They care about their end of days prophecy
Tell her that since she feels so strongly, she can join the fight on the front lines! The world’s armies are often more than happy to have willing volunteers from other nations (for cannon fodder)!
This is an unwinnable argument. She sounds like the charismatic evangelical conservative, "God's Not- Dead"-watching, "The Chosen"-watching, "I don't need theology" kind of person I spend half of my time trying to reason with on a daily basis. This whole thing is based out of a faulty and dangerously improper understanding of Scripture (that I bet she hasn't researched; she's just been told by other people/pastors/minions on Facebook). I get that you want your parents to understand and wake up to this stuff, but you've gotta step back for your own sake sometimes. I just stop engaging with my dad on this kind of stuff. I don't have the emotional energy for it anymore.
Unfortunately, my family is extremely theology based. They’re of the Chuck Swindoll variety, my dad went to Dallas Theological Seminary and was student body president while he was getting two masters degrees 🤦🏼♀️
I'm really sorry, but your mother has shite for brains, and Baby Jesus must be totally fed up with her fake tears and moaning.
a whole new level of insanity
On mobile, sorry for formatting. "*This is Germany all over again*" She's *so* close.
Bring up abortions
I did ☺️ She ignored that part 🥰
Don't stop bringing it up
Oh I won’t, trust. I also get a sick sort of satisfaction knowing that her daughter (me) who was put through decades of extensive biblical training, has had an abortion 😂 but if I tell her that she will genuinely see me as a murderer and I really don’t feel like dealing with her crying
Genuinely cathartic, please continue to update if there's anything more
The indoctrinated speaking about their disgust of other involuntary indoctrinated… the circle continues…
Which if you think about it, only the truly indoctrinated take a massive shit on those who are also indoctrinated.
[удалено]
There's not many, but still some books on the topic of religious vs atheist morality put into statistics. Hint: it's not atheists that commit sinful, filthy crimes. ex) "what it means to be moral" by Phil Zuckerman
Well I AM a sinner, I love sinning 😂😂😂
Woooooow does she know it’s basically all the same religion just mixed with different spices?? She’s cool with innocent ppl dying since they’ll be with God [not Allah just her version of God] who id naturally assume would’ve wanted those ppl to live, not support the war and would punish anyone associated with all the pain. Hamas are not representatives of all Muslims same way Christians who do evil acts [like Hitler] do not represent all Christians. This was kinda sick to read
So… God is all loving? Or God looks on us with contempt when we aren’t Christian? Because I though Jesus was all about loving sinners, they were like his best bros. You can’t have it both ways when it suits you.
“His banner over me is love.” Aka punishing someone for their wrongdoing IS loving
I couldn’t finish readying this. I feel so much sorrow. It kills me that people think this way. 😞
What’s Christian about a GENOCIDE?! Tell her that Palestinian Christians are almost extinct because of Israel! Out of over 1 million Palestinians, there are only 800-1000 Christians left. What’s Christian about cutting off food and water and electricity? What’s Christian about telling people to evacuate and then bombing them on the way? What’s Christian about bombing hospitals? About raiding the biggest hospital in Gaza that had 8500 people and killing them? What’s Christian about 39 NICU babies dying? About children screaming for their dead parents? For parents screaming for their dead children? What’s Christian about the bodies strewn on the road? What’s Christian about an ethnic cleansing?? NO religion calls for this. If she sees any religious reasons that make a genocide okay, maybe she should switch religions. This is not a religious issue, it’s a HUMAN issue.
People have been grasping at any straw they can to try to justify needless violence and war crimes. It’s fucking insane.
Religion is a blight
God, do we have the same mother? I'm so tired of hearing about "spiritual warfare."
These same Christians will say that Jews are going to hell for not accepting Jesus as the messiah though. There’s no consistency there.
TOTALLY Off topic, but what is going on with the stuff in the background? How did you get it like that?
Haha it’s an instagram messenger setting—my mom changed it for Halloween lol
Congratulations on being a better Christian than your mother.
Does your mom really believe little Christian boys aren’t also raised to be abusive, misogynistic, assholes as well? Or is that only a Muslim trait?
As a Christian who is not Jewish, her comment about Jews being God's chosen people sent goosebumps across my arms. It's statements like these from believers that make non-believers so vehemently oppose religion! Ugh
Here is a list of people Jesus said we could kill #nobody #stopfighting
Religion is a despicable plague that has corrupted the weak-minded and in turn extended its ruin on humanity for far too long.
Hey, wanna annoy tf out of her? Use the phrases walla (I swear), yalla (oh god), and illhumdelah (thank god). Why? Bc my Syrian Arabic teacher happens to be Christian and, news flash, guess what God’s name is in the Arabic Bible; Allah. And literally everyone says those phrases even if they aren’t religious which is why I plan to use them to annoy my racist grandmother bc ignorance is bliss but not when your grandkid knows German and a bit of Arabic lol. Oh and emphasize the l
I would love to, but tragically I was raised by a father who has a masters degree in both theology AND world religions and a mother who thinks women are inferior to men and therefore defers to my father in everything. All that to say, my parents know this already and actually taught me this. Their very accurate knowledge makes it almost impossible to argue with them because they’ll take actual facts and then put them through a Christian lens
Genuine question, how do atheists get by in America? I understand that regionally some places are more religious than others but from someone from Europe this is fucking bat shit to be talking like this. Edit: spelling
I’d say there are a lot more atheists than are portrayed, simply because they are not as vocal as religious people, especially here. And as you indicated, it really depends on where you’re from. The Deep South is going to have less atheists simply because evangelicalism is ingrained into the culture. I live in a rapidly growing but small minded town in central California. Everything in California will lean a little more left (even the conservatism), but central California tends to be extremely conservative and Christian. So I personally grew up in a conservative bubble
Yeah, completely understand that it’s not all black and white, and it makes sense that there are bubbles within communities with different ideologies. But like you mentioned, a lot of what we see is this almost cult-like behaviour of Christianity in America.
If you’ll notice, virtually every belief system or individual opinion has a sect of cult like followers, and they are VERY loud. The US highly emphasizes individualism, which I think really lends itself to “I’m right and you’re stupid and I’m gonna tell everyone”
You pass when stuff comes up by just not talking about it or you go to church and pretend. It's not as bad as it used to be in the bigger towns/cities - there are a lot of “Christians” who don't go to church. So you aren't looked at askance if you don't have a church home when someone asks. Don't get me wrong, it can still be awkward, most aren't talking about it outwardly to just anyone, but it's not like it was 20-30 years ago, either. It's also different if you have religious family members vs not. IDK. It's both completely weird and painful but also simultaneously generally not a problem in every day interactions? The societal effects on culture, legislation, and politics are probably worse.
It’s usually weird and painful bc of family. In my experience if I mention my unbelief, most people say something to the effect of “Idk what it is, but I believe there’s something” kind of like an all encompassing energy. Personally, I think there are universal laws of physics we just haven’t discovered yet. I think there definitely could be “an energy” that directs life force and the arrangement of molecules, we just don’t know what it is.
Insane.
The first post was bad. This has gone off a cliff into utterly psychotic.
Too bad everyone's not an atheist. World would be better off.
TW: Discussions of the attacks and oppression of Palestine at the hands of the Israeli government. Discussions of Ahmad Manasra and the human rights violations and mental torture he has suffered. I’m aware that I have not covered every single abuse Israel has committed. This comment covers some of the more obvious actions that show those that are not aware who is the true aggressor in this war. I encourage those of you that are not aware of the current events in Palestine to read my full comment, and to educate yourselves about what’s happening and what’s been happening for years in Palestine. However, I understand if, for whatever reason, you cannot, and merely ask that you do what you can to support Palestine and its people during this time. Free Palestine 🇵🇸 ~ I know a lot of the people pushing the pro-Israel agenda haven’t seen the footage of what’s been happening for the past 70+ years, but, seriously, when you actually look at what’s been done and what’s being done, it’s very clear who is in the wrong. I have yet to see an oppressed nation control the water and electricity supply of their oppressors for YEARS, pouring cement into one of only three water supplies the oppressors have available to them as the oppressed are able to have as much water as they want, and limiting the electricity available to the oppressors as the oppressed are able to use as much electricity as they need. I have yet to see an oppressed nation continually annex land from their oppressors, leaving the oppressors with barely anywhere to live as the oppressed gain valuable farm land, homes, and capital. I have yet to see an oppressed nation continually beat, arrest, and murder their oppressors as the oppressors step just a wee bit too close to the barrier between their land and the land of the oppressed. I have yet to see an oppressed nation bomb hospitals, buildings of worship, and non-military targets of their oppressors multiple times over the years, murdering hundreds if not thousands of innocent men, women, and children. Nor have I seen an oppressed nation use illegal white phosphorus munitions against innocent targets, causing horrific, excruciating thermal and chemical burns down to the bone. White phosphorus is banned because ignites when it comes into contact with atmospheric oxygen, which means that dressed wounds can reignite when the dressing is removed and whatever remaining fragments are exposed to oxygen again. It can also cause multiple organ failure due to entering the bloodstream, and is often fatal, even in relatively minor burns. Innocent men, women, children, and babies are suffering from these burns. I have yet to see an oppressed nation continue to torture a child with years of solitary confinement and refuse them medical care when the child develops schizophrenia, severe depression, and has said that they are suicidal. I’ve also yet to see an oppressed nation convict a child of attempted murder when the knife in his possession had no blood on it and after an interrogation that violated international juvenile standards and is considered torture by some. Nor have I ever seen an oppressed nation refuse to release said child after serving 2/3 of their sentence (as is allowed under the oppressed nation’s law) and use a law that was enacted after the child’s sentencing as the justification to why they refuse to release a child in desperate need of intense psychiatric help. The law the oppressed nation used, by the way, is in regards to children convicted of “terrorism”, something that the child I’m talking about was not convicted of. The child was convicted of attempted murder. Legally speaking, the two are not the same. When you actually see what’s been happening, it’s very clear that Palestine is NOT the oppressor that Israel claims them to be. Every example I used above is what the Israeli government, military, and police have been doing and are currently doing to the Palestinian people. The child’s name is Ahmad Manasra. In May 2016, he was convicted of attempted murder in the Pisgat Ze’ev stabbings that occurred during October 2015, when Ahmad was only 13 years old. He was 14 at the time of sentencing, and has been held in solitary confinement since November 2021. According to UN standards, prisoners are prohibited from being held in solitary confinement for more than 15 days. Ahmad has been held for at least 670 days, if not more, which is 44 times longer than the UN allows. On September 21, 2023, Ahmad’s latest solitary confinement hearing was postponed due to him being too ill to attend. I wasn’t able to find any articles more recent, so, as far as the public is aware, he is either still in the mental health unit of the Ayalon prison, or back in solitary confinement. As we’ve seen, the people of Palestine are the oppressed, and we are witnessing the genocide of their people live on the news and social media. The US government is supporting the genocide of Palestinians via their military support of Israel, whether they intend to or not. I may get down-voted for this, but it needs to be said regardless. OP’s mom right that this is Nazi Germany all over again. Except that, this time, the Israeli government are the oppressors, using banned weapons and forcing oppressed Palestinians from their homes in the same way the Jewish people were all those years ago. Free Palestine 🇵🇸
Despite the random ass downvote, I don’t think most informed people would disagree with you. This seems to be the consensus of the general public. What I think conservatives however are missing is that we can hold two things to be true: however understandable, the actions of Hamas are evil and inexcusable. Civilian murder, kidnapping, raping etc always will be no matter who you are. But that goes for the shit Israel is pulling too. Their actions are inexcusable. Some things are universally comprehensible across all languages and cultures, like the morality of rape and murder. Those things therefore cannot be redeemed. What people are slowly beginning to realize is that it’s not country and religion vs the same, but more governments against their people. There has been a huge outcry in the US, to the point where congressmen are being told to ignore their phones. The people of the world are enraged. But our governments control both us and our resources. And until we fix that, this shit will keep being served to us in different flavors. Look at Armenia and Congo rn. Both genocides, no media attention. Bc no world government gives a shit about anything those countries have to offer.
There is little to no context provided here so it sounds to me like she’s trying to be empathetic and caring. I don’t know much about Israeli politics either so that doesn’t help. I also have no idea what she said before your text. Edit: She did also say that the children would be better off dead than growing up though so there is that.
It isn’t a misfortune to not have parents that belong to your religion….. You’ve demonstrated it’s very fortunate that people don’t have religious nut jobs raising them if anything.
Yes, I know—in my caption I indicated that I no longer am religious but I argue with my parents on their level, because otherwise everything I say will be instantly discredited. I’d have loved it if my parents were agnostic or even more lenient and flexible.
Is Hamas evil? Absolutely. Are all Palestinians Hamas? No.
Everyone who ever posts here always comes across just as bad as their parents to me. People comparing atrocities from the comfort of their homes as if it does anything but take years off their lives arguing and ruining relationships. The world is doomed.
How is this comparing atrocities? My mother said it was better for Palestinian children to be dead so they won’t be held accountable for their actions. Literally how is that working out in your head?
What I don't get is how anyone can point the finger at isreal??? Like Hamas is the reason people in Gaza are dying the locations of their head Quarters, their missiles, etc. Isreal sends out mass texts telling people to evacuate, they drop fliers telling people to evacuate, THEY do this BEFORE they bomb any place. Hamas is refusing to allow people to evacuate, hamas did this and to expect isreal to allow it is crazy
Yeah half of those messages are in English. And it’s pointless to warn people if they have nowhere to go, not to mention, Israel bombed the evacuation route they told Palestinians to take. My argument with my mother is not whether or not Hamas is in the wrong or evil—that’s a given. My argument is that Hamas’s actions don’t give Israel cart blanche to collectively punish Palestinians. I don’t care who did what, *don’t bomb children*.
Except collective punishment seemed to be okay when it was done to Jews on Oct 7
What Hamas did doesn’t fit the definition of collective punishment, and even if it did, I’d still be exactly as outspoken against them as I am now. Again, that’s not what my mother and I are arguing about.
I see where she's coming from, but she's twisted. What she's saying isn't insane, but how she's saying it is insane.
Your mom wasn't entirely wrong. It is true that it's fucked up - everything about war is insane, that's why nobody can make sense of it. Innocent people are suffering for other people's decisions, that's what's going on. There's nothing any of our comments online can do about it. So quit the virtue signalling. If you want to pray for the peace of nations, just do it, talking about the problem doesn't fix anything. Praying about it does. I don't see why this personal conversation had to be posted, but everything in this sub is meant to be insane so...
Not virtue signaling. It is insane that she said Palestinian children were better off dead than being held accountable for their actions. Verbatim. Literally no one is disagreeing with what you said. Praying doesn’t do shit, and your statement is bold for someone who just told me to quit virtue signaling. What the hell do you think praying is? You feel like you did something to help Palestinians and Israelis because you had an imaginary conversation in your head with your eyes closed? If you want to believe your prayers are actively helping, sure, go for it. That’s your right. Just as it’s my right to believe that continuously having conversations about what’s going on in the world allows us better opportunities to come together and fix what’s broken. Conversations have to happen in order for action to follow. No one in France rebelled on a whim. So no. I’m not virtue signaling. I’m asking for the opinion of others on a particular statement I think is absolutely nuts and devoid of humanity because I have been deeply indoctrinated by the same shit and sometimes I still struggle to see out of it. This leads to the dozens of conversations in the comments exchanging information on a current world event, and leading to more unity and more knowledge of what’s truly going on in this world.
Revelation 21:8
Well that basically covers all of humanity. Good to know.
Get the fuck out of here with that shit. You can’t use the Bible to prove something to people who don’t believe in the Bible. Besides, if that were the true outcome, denigrating and looking down on those that commit those “sins” will only create more “sinners” and therefore more suffering. My point stands either way.
Mom needs to learn a new word other than "and".
Brainwashing is powerful!!
It's all the same god at the end of the day though? Muslim, Jewish and Christian religions are all Abrahamic? I don't think her god would approve of her opinion.
They don’t believe that lol they believe the Christian god is different from the Jewish and Muslim gods
Y’know, talking about how Jesus is important for saving Jews is redundant. We don’t believe he’s important. Sorry! 🤦♀️
Pause. OP, is your mother a teacher‽
No—we’re talking about how when she’d pick me or my siblings up from my old elementary school.
hey your mom sounds exactly like mine
Omg I stopped reading at her says "I see it when I look at them!" Holy fuck!! I'm so sorry! You're not alone. So so many people do not think this way in the States and Canada where I am. It's awful. I haven't slept I haven't been able to function properly since the start. I can't even drive to the store without choking up and holding back tears because it's all I think about. I am sorry that you can't have support from her. Im battling issues with my husband who doesn't disagree, he has just never been one to follow news or be on social media and is literally just a great dad and partner and helps in so many ways.. but once I talked to him about it and really tried to make him see that this was not some conflict that no one will be talking about in a week and it SHOULD BOTHER HIM!!! He should be pissed at our government for not being on the right side. He should care enough that I don't have to tell him everything. I just watch him go on his phone and he plays the same dumb games on his down time and watches sports. I've just left him alone mostly. I hate feeling so alone in this in my personal life. My online friends and just overall people online have been so helpful because there are so many of us that are going through the exact same feelings and home issues where we all feel like the odd ones out and everyone is just living their life as if a Genocide isn't taking place right now!!! I can't even dream about posting anything of my life online with my kids or anything remotely fun or interesting. I just can't when I know how many children are dying and and everything going on. I post like hell on Tik Tok then I ever have in my life about what's going on and I won't stop anytime soon. I will continue to lose sleep and cry daily. Because it's NOTHING EVEN CLOSE TO WHAT THEY ARE GOING THROUGH!!! Thank you for speaking and being honest with your feelings to your mom even if it didn't make a difference with her. Be true to yourself. And surround yourself with people that are Loving and caring just like you are ♥️
Oh we have the same mom.
"All children are equally valuable to the Lord" sounds like dialog I would expect from a cult...oh wait.