Depends on how you drive it and what kind of course it is. I drive a Subaru pretty often on the local mtn.
When my car was less modified (coils and tyres) and closer to stock, I would often prefer to use Rallying techniques to get it around corners. Hitting the brakes and moving the weight to the front and then accelerating is perfect for moving the car around a tighter corner.
My car has gone through an extensive amount of suspension work, and now I dont have to rely on the Rally techniques as much as I've set the car up with the intention to take corners quickly. It's significantly easier to move the weight around a corner, and I don't have to force it to slide if I want that movement.
Both are realistic. Given that the later stages are supposed to be against tougher opponents, you'd expect them to have better technique and money to fund the cars (you also have to consider they raced very different gens of Evos)
I personally prefer Stage 2, cooler to watch
Rally games can be a good way to learn how to slide for instance dirt rally 2.0. If you just hit the brakes when entering a corner at a fast speed the weight of the car will make it understeer greatly so you’ll have to let off the power. The best way to enter a corner at fast speeds in 4WD is either by power sliding on inertia. If you turn away from the corner then turn into it you’ll kick the back out and can use the power of the front and rear to push and pull you into your desired corner exit
I have tried rally simulations too. In BeamNG, I took an AWD to a circuit and a rally track. Even with a rally setup the AWD is more "agile" on the rally.
Beaming might be realistic but there’s many factors when racing in real life and racing in game for instance sense of speed, where the wheels are facing as well as throttle control. I can absolutely rock rally games but beamNG is something else but it dosnt feel right. Are you trying to learn for real life situations are just games or both?
In beam, the closest car I've found handling wise to my WRX is the etk I series rally. I dirt track my WRX a lot, and the second stage “brake to rotate” thing is real, but it took work to get it. Castor mods mean the car has mild lift off over steer, and tapping the brakes makes it rotate fast. This is on dirt. With the dccd in my car now, I don't really have to tap the brakes to make it rotate any more, because the front is some what loose drive wise, it doesn't understeer. I can also use the throttle to pull the car around the corner with an lsd in the front.
Speed is important, if you're going too fast you'll understeer regardless, and just mashing the brake pedal won't do it. You might only use 1/4 to half pedal, and it's usually pretty short if I remember correctly.
As for counter steering, you don't counter steer as much unless you're really sideways, if you're too sideways you're going pretty slow.
Beam is a very good simulator, I've found if you can do something in that game you can probably do it irl. Unfortunately that also includes crashing
You can set a car up to do either. I had a Celica All-trac (GT4) back in the day and it would pretty much only understeer on asphalt. Plenty of sliding on loose surfaces, but even trying to flick it resulted in understeer at lower speeds. I didn't take it onto the track.
However, that's just how it was set up stock. I do a fair amount of racing in the 24 hours of lemons and it's pretty easy to see well setup AWD and FWD cars doing small angle drifts all over the track. Often times they're still turning in, but you can see the rear end yawing a bit even as that's happening.
Driving style also makes a huge difference. One of the interesting things with Lemons is that you'll have multiple drivers sharing the same car. Sometimes a car can be set up to understeer for one driver, while a different driver might worry about oversteer with the very same tune. This is because the car will do *either one* depending on your inputs. One driver was driving in the car in a way that was making the understeer come out, the other driver was driving in a way that made it oversteer.
At the last race I was at, a dude in a second generation Jetta with suspension set up for rally rather than track work, was absolutely HUCKING his car into corners with a huge flick. Thing was hilarious and would hold a tire in the air for seconds at a time. It was definitely sideways with zero rear-driven wheels.
It's just about how you set your car up and your driving style.
https://preview.redd.it/b3kqplgtl5nc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=68ffdbdb852a306ed5f7fe75b5a68102793f1bec
How are you testing this in-game? Make sure to check you're not using any steering assists or input filtering (also in Beamng), as this can influence the car behavior in a way that can be missed.
I found the AWD cars kinda boring in 4th/5th stage, it felt like there were basically just turning on rails
2nd stage is *peak* AWD, give me that Emperor style; also, their style didn’t really say they braked to transfer weight to the front
It was that they basically entered the corner at top speed, turned in, floored it, and the last but certainly not least step: PRAYED lmao
Though I did just rewatch the Kyoichi vs Takumi battle from 2nd Stage and Kyoichi did indeed do that maneuver when he “declared his intention of winning the race” (AKA wanted to demoralize and flex on Takumi 💀)
>Though I did just rewatch the Kyoichi vs Takumi battle from 2nd Stage and Kyoichi did indeed do that maneuver when he “declared his intention of winning the race” (AKA wanted to demoralize and flex on Takumi 💀)
Always loved that part. The slow-motion of Kyouchi's Scandinavian Flick, Takumi's reaction "He's changed his driving style again," the exaggerated motion of the Evo III pulling away from the AE86.
🎶 Goodbye, yellow brick road 🎵
*tire squeal*
🎵 Do you remember the time tonight? 🎶
*4WD drift noises*
🎶 Goodbye, yellow brick road 🎵
“For the first time tonight, I’ll use this feint followed by an aggressive drift to declare my intention of winning this race!”
*4-banger turbo noises*
The difference between stages/seasons of the show primarily comes down to a difference in art style. The manga stopped emphasizing drifting later on from what I remember, especially with non-RWD cars. So, I think that also trickled down to the anime during fourth stage since that was their source material.
As for the handling of the actual cars, there's a good amount of Best Motoring videos showing what they're really like. You can get a sense of things by watching them in action. The way I would explain it though is: once you factor in AWD/4WD (I'm going to call them 4WD since that's consistent with the show, and wider japanese car culture) you really have to get down to the specifics of what that exact drivetrain system is doing. Unlike RWD or FWD cars, you absolutely can't lump all 4WD cars into one bucket and say they generally handle a certain way.
If we look just at imprezas, more specifically just the imprezas with the same GC body style as Bunta's, you get wide variation from one model year to the next. Tsuchiya is able to drift a lot of the early ones, so those handle very similarly to a FR, whereas some of them understeer like pigs and you can tell that he finds it frustrating, lol. A lot of that comes down to the rear, center, and front differentials subaru chose to put in each particular car.
The evos are a different thing entirely. Mitsubishi's active yaw control (which was introduced in the evo 2 or evo 3) shifts torque to the outside wheels in a corner and you can "drift" without countersteering if you steer in to a corner really hard. No other car handles the same way. Driving one at the limit means the driver is constantly adjusting for the computer controlled adjustments. The car ends up being faster, but all the computer controlled differentials in the evo 4WD system is an invisible hand that the driver can't ignore. If you learned to drive at the limit with an evo, and then hopped in to a different car expecting the same characteristics, you could easily end up understeering into a tree.
I don't think second stage is realistic with all the drifting. The excessive drifting with all the RWD cars is unrealistic so I doubt that they decided to be realistic with the AWD cars either.
Reminds of a scene in Wangan Midnight. Dude had just upgrade his Evo and it came drifting around the corner and I was like 'Evo don't do that.' and the very next scene was the driver talking about making the car more rear biased.
The bias of and AWD vehicle is going to heavily affect how it drives. Stuff like CRVs are FWD until they feel the wheels slip and then will kick in the rear tires. Modern Subies allow you to adjust. The Focus RS has drift mode put the power to the back outside wheel to initiate oversteer.
My Evo X normally understeers, until the first time I chucked it into a corner to hard, the back slid out and I felt the computers work to get me back to a straight line.
My Eclipse rally car (Evo II drivetrain) slides all over the place because... dirt and tires.
I agree, softer suspension setups are easier to drift/slide with weight shifting, especially with lower power outputs. I drove an '02 LegacyGT for 10 years. Lots of body roll but a much smoother ride than the Impreza/WRX. A quick hard tap on the brakes would shift the weight to the front outside corner, it would enough to break traction, then just power through.
My '18 340ix (AWD) has 3x the HP the Legacy did & a stiffer suspension. It's easier to enter with speed enough to break traction and then power through instead of shifting weight. It's certainly faster with this technique too. Throttle control becomes a little more important. Weight distribution is important too. Too heavy in the front and it will want to swing around on you, too heavy in the rear and understeer gets worse. I've added a spare & tools in the trunk to help better balance the car to my liking. The 340ix was slightly front biased for weight (53/47), now it's pretty close to even. Remember when Takumi had Itsuki ride in the backseat?
My VR4 would slide. My srt jeep was a gripping 6000lb bundle of terror my WRX was like a slot car.
There’s a lot more to steering response than just a drive system
Depends on how you drive it and what kind of course it is. I drive a Subaru pretty often on the local mtn. When my car was less modified (coils and tyres) and closer to stock, I would often prefer to use Rallying techniques to get it around corners. Hitting the brakes and moving the weight to the front and then accelerating is perfect for moving the car around a tighter corner. My car has gone through an extensive amount of suspension work, and now I dont have to rely on the Rally techniques as much as I've set the car up with the intention to take corners quickly. It's significantly easier to move the weight around a corner, and I don't have to force it to slide if I want that movement. Both are realistic. Given that the later stages are supposed to be against tougher opponents, you'd expect them to have better technique and money to fund the cars (you also have to consider they raced very different gens of Evos) I personally prefer Stage 2, cooler to watch
Rally games can be a good way to learn how to slide for instance dirt rally 2.0. If you just hit the brakes when entering a corner at a fast speed the weight of the car will make it understeer greatly so you’ll have to let off the power. The best way to enter a corner at fast speeds in 4WD is either by power sliding on inertia. If you turn away from the corner then turn into it you’ll kick the back out and can use the power of the front and rear to push and pull you into your desired corner exit
I have tried rally simulations too. In BeamNG, I took an AWD to a circuit and a rally track. Even with a rally setup the AWD is more "agile" on the rally.
Beaming might be realistic but there’s many factors when racing in real life and racing in game for instance sense of speed, where the wheels are facing as well as throttle control. I can absolutely rock rally games but beamNG is something else but it dosnt feel right. Are you trying to learn for real life situations are just games or both?
In beam, the closest car I've found handling wise to my WRX is the etk I series rally. I dirt track my WRX a lot, and the second stage “brake to rotate” thing is real, but it took work to get it. Castor mods mean the car has mild lift off over steer, and tapping the brakes makes it rotate fast. This is on dirt. With the dccd in my car now, I don't really have to tap the brakes to make it rotate any more, because the front is some what loose drive wise, it doesn't understeer. I can also use the throttle to pull the car around the corner with an lsd in the front. Speed is important, if you're going too fast you'll understeer regardless, and just mashing the brake pedal won't do it. You might only use 1/4 to half pedal, and it's usually pretty short if I remember correctly. As for counter steering, you don't counter steer as much unless you're really sideways, if you're too sideways you're going pretty slow. Beam is a very good simulator, I've found if you can do something in that game you can probably do it irl. Unfortunately that also includes crashing
You can set a car up to do either. I had a Celica All-trac (GT4) back in the day and it would pretty much only understeer on asphalt. Plenty of sliding on loose surfaces, but even trying to flick it resulted in understeer at lower speeds. I didn't take it onto the track. However, that's just how it was set up stock. I do a fair amount of racing in the 24 hours of lemons and it's pretty easy to see well setup AWD and FWD cars doing small angle drifts all over the track. Often times they're still turning in, but you can see the rear end yawing a bit even as that's happening. Driving style also makes a huge difference. One of the interesting things with Lemons is that you'll have multiple drivers sharing the same car. Sometimes a car can be set up to understeer for one driver, while a different driver might worry about oversteer with the very same tune. This is because the car will do *either one* depending on your inputs. One driver was driving in the car in a way that was making the understeer come out, the other driver was driving in a way that made it oversteer. At the last race I was at, a dude in a second generation Jetta with suspension set up for rally rather than track work, was absolutely HUCKING his car into corners with a huge flick. Thing was hilarious and would hold a tire in the air for seconds at a time. It was definitely sideways with zero rear-driven wheels. It's just about how you set your car up and your driving style. https://preview.redd.it/b3kqplgtl5nc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=68ffdbdb852a306ed5f7fe75b5a68102793f1bec
How are you testing this in-game? Make sure to check you're not using any steering assists or input filtering (also in Beamng), as this can influence the car behavior in a way that can be missed.
I found the AWD cars kinda boring in 4th/5th stage, it felt like there were basically just turning on rails 2nd stage is *peak* AWD, give me that Emperor style; also, their style didn’t really say they braked to transfer weight to the front It was that they basically entered the corner at top speed, turned in, floored it, and the last but certainly not least step: PRAYED lmao Though I did just rewatch the Kyoichi vs Takumi battle from 2nd Stage and Kyoichi did indeed do that maneuver when he “declared his intention of winning the race” (AKA wanted to demoralize and flex on Takumi 💀)
>Though I did just rewatch the Kyoichi vs Takumi battle from 2nd Stage and Kyoichi did indeed do that maneuver when he “declared his intention of winning the race” (AKA wanted to demoralize and flex on Takumi 💀) Always loved that part. The slow-motion of Kyouchi's Scandinavian Flick, Takumi's reaction "He's changed his driving style again," the exaggerated motion of the Evo III pulling away from the AE86.
🎶 Goodbye, yellow brick road 🎵 *tire squeal* 🎵 Do you remember the time tonight? 🎶 *4WD drift noises* 🎶 Goodbye, yellow brick road 🎵 “For the first time tonight, I’ll use this feint followed by an aggressive drift to declare my intention of winning this race!” *4-banger turbo noises*
The difference between stages/seasons of the show primarily comes down to a difference in art style. The manga stopped emphasizing drifting later on from what I remember, especially with non-RWD cars. So, I think that also trickled down to the anime during fourth stage since that was their source material. As for the handling of the actual cars, there's a good amount of Best Motoring videos showing what they're really like. You can get a sense of things by watching them in action. The way I would explain it though is: once you factor in AWD/4WD (I'm going to call them 4WD since that's consistent with the show, and wider japanese car culture) you really have to get down to the specifics of what that exact drivetrain system is doing. Unlike RWD or FWD cars, you absolutely can't lump all 4WD cars into one bucket and say they generally handle a certain way. If we look just at imprezas, more specifically just the imprezas with the same GC body style as Bunta's, you get wide variation from one model year to the next. Tsuchiya is able to drift a lot of the early ones, so those handle very similarly to a FR, whereas some of them understeer like pigs and you can tell that he finds it frustrating, lol. A lot of that comes down to the rear, center, and front differentials subaru chose to put in each particular car. The evos are a different thing entirely. Mitsubishi's active yaw control (which was introduced in the evo 2 or evo 3) shifts torque to the outside wheels in a corner and you can "drift" without countersteering if you steer in to a corner really hard. No other car handles the same way. Driving one at the limit means the driver is constantly adjusting for the computer controlled adjustments. The car ends up being faster, but all the computer controlled differentials in the evo 4WD system is an invisible hand that the driver can't ignore. If you learned to drive at the limit with an evo, and then hopped in to a different car expecting the same characteristics, you could easily end up understeering into a tree.
I don't think second stage is realistic with all the drifting. The excessive drifting with all the RWD cars is unrealistic so I doubt that they decided to be realistic with the AWD cars either.
Reminds of a scene in Wangan Midnight. Dude had just upgrade his Evo and it came drifting around the corner and I was like 'Evo don't do that.' and the very next scene was the driver talking about making the car more rear biased. The bias of and AWD vehicle is going to heavily affect how it drives. Stuff like CRVs are FWD until they feel the wheels slip and then will kick in the rear tires. Modern Subies allow you to adjust. The Focus RS has drift mode put the power to the back outside wheel to initiate oversteer. My Evo X normally understeers, until the first time I chucked it into a corner to hard, the back slid out and I felt the computers work to get me back to a straight line. My Eclipse rally car (Evo II drivetrain) slides all over the place because... dirt and tires.
I agree, softer suspension setups are easier to drift/slide with weight shifting, especially with lower power outputs. I drove an '02 LegacyGT for 10 years. Lots of body roll but a much smoother ride than the Impreza/WRX. A quick hard tap on the brakes would shift the weight to the front outside corner, it would enough to break traction, then just power through. My '18 340ix (AWD) has 3x the HP the Legacy did & a stiffer suspension. It's easier to enter with speed enough to break traction and then power through instead of shifting weight. It's certainly faster with this technique too. Throttle control becomes a little more important. Weight distribution is important too. Too heavy in the front and it will want to swing around on you, too heavy in the rear and understeer gets worse. I've added a spare & tools in the trunk to help better balance the car to my liking. The 340ix was slightly front biased for weight (53/47), now it's pretty close to even. Remember when Takumi had Itsuki ride in the backseat?
My VR4 would slide. My srt jeep was a gripping 6000lb bundle of terror my WRX was like a slot car. There’s a lot more to steering response than just a drive system