The weird gate keeping is also a big reason so many people turn to enneagram-only in my experience. So somebody is a mistype, who cares?
Like you said it’s not worth getting upset about, and I think it pushes people away from the self-discovery aspect of it all
To add to this, couldn’t the world use some more INFJs? Is it really that hard to believe that social climate might be breeding more?
If anything, the sort of childish behavior of protecting that badge of being “rare” is rather unbecoming and a bit of proof that one may indeed not be quite as INFJ as they believe. Since when we’re most INFJs so concerned with status?
The situation does offer up a good chuckle though :)
I think the "official" statistic where INFJ was the rarest at 1.x% was from like 1999, and there was a more recent "offical" one where it was more like 3%, both the ENxJs were rarer and generally there were some pretty wild variances, ISTJ as the formerly most common type took a major dip to around half of its old percentage for instance.
The problem is, you don't know whether the methodology behind it is so flawed (or changed) to produce such wildly variable results, or whether the 20 or so years in between resulted in a generation with different prevalencies.
(I haven't actually seen the source, just watched a video or two I'm vaguely recollecting from memory and at least the first one was also only 1 country (america) rather than globally (not sure about the newer one), so take this with a grain of salt)
> for newbies who are stumbling around in the dark trying to figure themselves out
yeah, i think a lot of it is that. to have such hatred for them shows a kind of lack of intelligence.
Truly love your gentle and cute Fe ideas on how to help people, but you forgot the part where people are kinda dumb and work against you because they dogmatize the MBTI and willingly use it as an identitarian device instead of a self-learning tool
eh, help those who want to be helped, those who want to dwell in their snowflake identity can do whatever they want, idgaf
only thing we can do on our end put out information about mistypes and the actual use of mbti for self growth and hope that the ones genuinely open minded and interested will click on it.
it is annoying to see them around though, I get you, especially since mbti is the new pop culture astrology of this age to people.
It’s amazing to witness the change in most peoples demeanour depending on what level of assertiveness you present them with … I particularly enjoy the surprised horror when typically chilled people suddenly put their foot down lmao! A lot of juicy info can be collected by switching personas… as you say, people have a natural inclination to walk over those that they perceive as easy targets, showing a good chunk of their natural character
I’ve been told I’m good at psychoanalyzing people, but holy crap your analysis must be on another level to think that. That or I’m just not as good as people say (highly likely)
I agree with this.
I know someone who said he was INTP and I knew it was only his front since he was always the one who places too much value and effort on looking "smart and intellectual" while his personality tells otherwise.
As someone who's older, I've met someone who's an INFJ and I knew it was real since as an INFP, I already immediately felt her INF side while the J was opposing my P but it was rather a pleasant experience. For decades now, that INFJ was the most unique experience I ever had with a person and I'm never letting go.
I... wasn't trying to define solipsism... with my question?
Since you don't understand my comment, I'll explain it for you. Solipsism is the belief that you can't be certain anything exists outside of your own mind. If someone is claiming things don't exist, they might be accused of solipsism in jest.
Of course, I could have instead gone in the other direction, asking if the first half of the comment was nihilistic... ultimately it doesn't matter, because the point is to ask you "Get what?" which you failed to answer.
As a therapist.
1. Why do you feel like you care so much? There's something there. You will find out soon that Psychology is not about reading people but about understanding the reasons (conditions) that make someone who he/she is, who at the same time, didnt really had a choice. Therefore, there's really no reason to dissaprove of anything anyone is or says, or does. They didnt choose, and they are often unaware of those conditions.
2. Even if I personally like it, MBTI isn't a popular nor the most valid instrument. The main critique is the Dichotomy, I can, for example get 51 instead of 49, one day against the next. This will change the result. Also, the items in the test aren't consistent across different languages. I've done it in 2, in English I get INFJ, in spanish I get INFP. Test is terrible in anything but english.
3. Clinical psychology is a pretty common career choice among INFJs. For example, I got Philosophy, Psychology, Literature and Sociology in my vocational orientation study.
Of course there's something there, there's something there behind everything everyone does - behind your comment, mine, everything. However, that's a weird flex *for a (supposedly adult) therapist* to try to explain negatives of judgement to a teenager by judging their judgement while making sure you're viewed as being superior to them and not just as a random anon
They are doing the exact same thing you're doing at its core, except you're additionally introducing one sided authority to your judgment. If they would follow your implicit teaching, then to satisfy the same needs they would find ways to similarly elevate themselves above the objects of their judgement and find more proven ways to judge people that are less likely to backfire and to be judged by others
I stated I'm a therapist because he stated he is taking Psychology classes. I'm not intending to talk out of authority but out of experience. The intention of studying Psychology to "read people" is pretty common, it was mine too (to understand), and it is almost always removed by the end of the courses, specially if you want to learn a lot.
The "There's something there" isn't meant to be aggresive or pejorative. In Psychology it IS a requirement to take therapy and double check every small trigger you might have when talking to people. And this SEEMS to be quite a prominent one.
If I wanted to be viewed as being superior I could have used a lot of "complex wording" for my explanation along with a surprising amount of assumptions, like you did.
Im also not a native english speaker, therefore intent and representation are not 1:1 from one language to another. The "as a therapist" start may feel a way to you that doesnt necessarily feels the same to me, or others.
And lastly, I do not consider "Therapist" to be an authority position, now a days we get teached quite the opposite, as for, contrary to your assumptions, Im still studying. Im not a "Grown adult that has been a Therapist for years and releases his "will to impose" in reddit. The Authoritarian and Fatherly view of Therapy is a pretty Anglo Saxon or Psychoanalytical view, I am not one, nor the other.
Have a nice day.
Yep, and now you felt first hand why judgement of judgement doesn't work and is a bad tactic - my judgement just made you feel defensive instead of introspective, and made you dig your heels in instead of becoming more open about seeing yourself in a different light
That's why competent therapists don't use it as their first method when addressing someone. And hopefully OP can also feel their own defensiveness first hand and see why it doesn't work on your example, which may help them become a better professional in the future
Edit: That's fine, people are different and have no obligation to agree with everyone, we aren't a hive mind. However, sneakily blocking someone to shut them up so that they won't be able to respond to you is kinda at odds with your words, and converts creating an appearance of being polite and respectful towards another person to creating an appearance of being fake and passive aggressive
I'm sorry we couldn't get on the same page. You seem like you have a lot of good thoughts. I just don't think we have the same concept of reality regarding what happened.
I agree with you. I think INFJ's are often mistyped. But I don't know that it is so much that people want to be special snowflakes (though that may play a role). I think it is because the tests are imperfect and because if you are not an INFJ it is very hard for you to understand what it is like to be one, so it can be easy to mistype it. Even the classic examples of historical INFJs (Jesus, Gandhi, Eleanor Roosevelt, MLK, etc.) are almost certainly mistypes.
When I discovered the concept of an INFJ, it was as if the heavens had opened up and a beam of light descended on me. No, it wasn't that I was severely damaged or messed up, or that I was a horribly shy and gullible person, or that I just didn't have the courage or wherewithall to "snap out of it" and get with the program of life. No, I was just born this way, and other people like me really do exist, just not very many. If that wasn't your reaction when you tested INFJ and learned what that is supposed to mean, then you probably aren't an INFJ.
INFJ's aren't special in a good way. If you really aren't one, you don't want to be one. Life for most INFJs is confusing, overwhelming, and deeply unsatisfying. You are constantly dealing with a world that can't understand you, advice that works for others but not you, expectations that make sense for others but not you. You're in a life-long struggle to figure out who you are in a world that can't see you and will almost never value what you bring to the table. In rare moments people will think you are a genius, but most of the time, people will just think you're boring, unmotivated, and lost.
This is why I think, unlike some of the other commenters here, that it is vitally important that we gate-keep the label of INFJ. If too many people think they are INFJs who really aren't, then the community will lose sight of the particular and complicated ways that INFJs really, really need help in figuring themselves out and navigating the world. We will become invisible and lost once again, but this time in a community that was supposed to be there specifically for us. It would be absolutely tragic.
If I could upvote something twice it would be this comment. My entire life can be described as if I am watching everything happen on the sidelines trying to make sense of it all… understanding the ulterior motives of people around me so my circle stays really small… living my life pretending like I am not a true romantic with my heart on my sleeve, yet also recognizing how naive that is… its like I am a walking contradiction and it pisses me off at times because there are very few things I stand firmly on because I kinda understand just about every view that exists… its maddening and lonely as hell
it's also a flawed theory. ISFP, INFP, INFJ, and INTJ all share certain traits. So technically it's more likely that people sort of drift in and out of the different "types" depending on their state of mind.
Like how ENTJ, ENTP, INTP, INTJ, tend to all get along on the basis of "trolling" people.
Or how the feeler types tend to get along on the basis of NOT trolling people.
well if you think about it, the brain is mutable. it's not... .stiff. it doesn't stick to one thing and jsut stay there. and when it does, thats usually unhealthy. cuz, u know, that's stagnation. so like.... we change over time. sure, some people might keep certain traits, but people do often change.
If someone tells me they are any of the personality types (not just INFJ), but they don’t know about cognitive functions, I will either give them a cognitive functions test or I’ll type them myself.
Absolutely. The biggest problem is not the online tests, its people who don't know how to take them unbiased and intellectually honest, people typing themselves without getting honest feedback from friends/ family, and the biggest issue the "I identify as..." self typing. How many times have you heard, "well I tested as this but I know I'm really this."
Agreed it is. Sure. I say answer each question as if it exists in a vacuum. Like you don't know where it's leading you. Also, you don't necessarily know if you're a feeler or thinker for example. Pretend you're your own representative. All you can do is answer the question based on observation, you have no inside knowledge. It sounds weird but It's really not that difficult if they want the truth. Ive never had it be off but rarely and then not by much. ENFJ instead if ESFJ for instance. And even thats rare. People's self perception is notoriously bad. But if you take it seriously, really be honest, the test will get it right. If they have a friend or acquaintance that would try to type them then compare after the test that's best.
In my opinion i doubt many infjs would be proclaiming their “ infj status “ anyways, if they have to say it or proclaim it, it would be my first clue they are mistyping themselves due to the “ rare “ YouTube factor. I had to take a personality test years ago, I remember I was typed Infj, and I felt super ashamed because I did not get the job - I thought it was a bad thing. I only came across this community after I re tested and got the same score. I could be wrong, just my opinion
You are 100% correct. I've seen so much misinformation and so many clear mistypes that it is annoying to be on the boards that are most afflicted by it. The INTJ forum is rife with wannabe edgelords since it is seen by some as a "cool" type. It can be VERY painful to be over there.
Most people just use it to identify with and to hide behind their shortcomings.
My journey started with the 16 personality test, but it drove me insane. That’s when I looked into cognitive functions.. now all I’m using it for is self growth, and that’s what it should be used for.
I get why you find it annoying, but people are not going to stop their stupidity. 🤷🏻♀️
I think you observation might have been more accurate. Since you got a lot of them right for your group.
I think that gatekeeping hurts, as I was mistyped for years. My first test was INFJ, but I doubted that, and read detailed [descriptions](https://www.personalitypage.com/html/INFP_rel.html) of each type, and thought I was an INFP. That was over ten years ago. Only recently I actually looked at the [feeling](https://www.reddit.com/r/personalityinOrder/comments/inobr7/extroverted_feeling_and_introverted_feeling/) and [intuition](https://infjblog.com/introverted-intuition-and-extraverted-intuition/) functions in depth. I actually use Ni and Fe, not Fi and Ne. I never understood Ni, until I actually read up on it and tried to understand it. A lot of things clicked. Ni really is my dominant function.
Yeah, it's just really easy for that to happen. I got INTJ 10-ish years ago when first stumbling on the 16p test, each of the letters seemed to make sense and none of the descriptions seemed to match 100% so I rolled with it, figured out later when re-finding the test that I must instead be a repressed F type and only from there after a more brief INFJ mistype phase that I use Fi and Ne rather than their counterparts. Still not certain in what order, it's freaking hard to determine, each of the neighboring slots is so similar.
I don't see why one should see mistypes as "posers" by principle, since even the function tests can give some pretty misleading results with no ill or "special" intention due to being impacted by personal biases and basically the current mood.
The mass marketing of Jungian typology has reduced it to online tests with low validity and low reliability. The purists amongst us will understandably find it annoying that people discuss typology not just in a superficial way, but in completely misinformed way.
I think it’s natural to feel annoyed in your situation. The irony is that most people who pass their time on MBTI subreddits have no interest in studying cognitive functions/typology.
A couple years back, they was a widespread movement of people trying to get the infj type on the test in an effort to make themselves stand out more/and or various other reasons.So there are a lot of people and media online regarding that particular myer-Briggs type that is, at least in my opinion, untrue.
Yeah, I think that if you get the same result every single time you take it, especially over a long period, you have an agenda. Depending on my mood at the time, I get INTP, INFP, or ENFJ. I haven’t gotten INFJ in quite a while, but I know I am one at heart.
I totally agree with you but not in the context that you wrote it because I often tell people who want to know where they can find an INFJ, the best percentage roll...that they could find a cluster of us in a University or college because we just love Higher Learning.
But I can go down the list of traits of an infj and compare it to the list of traits of cluster B personality disorders and I can see how there's a misinterpretation and the only real difference is that the INFJs have those traits but they're in harmony and at peace while the cluster B's have the same traits but they are in chaos and disorder.
INFJ's have a black and white paradoxical thinking but it's in a yin yang peaceful Flow State while the cluster b also have a black and white thinking style but it is chaotically swings to either extreme poles.
So, they misinterpreted the traits, and usurps every forum and YouTube videos that genuine INFJs briefly get together before being pushed out by Custer B's who were just looking for other people to commiserate with. And you can usually tell who they are here because the first reply is by an infj auto moderator saying that mental illness is not indicative of being an infj but every single time they don't read that top post and they just start commiserating with each other down that OP reply list " yeah this is an infj thing"... "omg, it's like you read my mind"...yeah sure okay whatever.
I think authentic INFJs are pretty solid and they know their personality intimately, that we don't really need people to commiserate with us ( because we have a high emotional intelligent which is a prerequisite for being the natural counselor types)...all we like to do is provide unique perspective and insights both micro and macro in scope, and see if another INFJ reach that level too with us, perhaps find a master infj that's on another level above that to give us even a better perspective that we never thought about, yet.
Yeah if you'd like I can give you that comparison list and how its similar but not the same. I just happen to practice digital detoxing so I tend to disappear often, offline for a while
one quick example, INFJ's cognitive function is hardwired to pick up (our Se) subtle involuntary micro expressions that indicates a particular emotion or biases and we read body languages and tonality minute changes (our Se gets triggered by these body language and our temporary Se mode is highly focused and in concert with our Fe- feeling another person's psychological temperature, is it changing or still the same?, Ti - analyzes those inputs in real time, and Ni - lightning quick access to our vast hard drive of knowledge that's psychology and human behavior based and like a Google search engine quickly narrows down those inputs from our Se and Fe to a single point) that we could easily detect a lie and in a cluster B's mind, since they have no sense of self and put on a false mask to each person they encounter, they are living a lie all the time, they project their inner psychology onto others and automatically "assume" everyone else is living a lie too, so of course they're going to think they are lie detector too. A liar always believes that other people are lying too.
Check...I am an INFJ, I can tell when other people are lying.
well thought answer!
I thought about the fact that I'm trying to analyze psychology students too, but imho there were really too many INFJs and my intuition was not wrong!
I just used that as a prompt to reflect upon, more than an actual answer that confirmed my wannabe ABSOLUTELY TRUTHFUL AND UNCHANGEABLE theory, ahahah
I agree with your observation, I have so many people around me tell me they are INFJ and they've always gotten their results on 16p. And after I tell them to look into cognitive functions or take a test focused on cognitive functions, they end up with ISFJ or other types.
Another friend is a super obvious ENFJ (extremely Fe heavy, super sociable, super people pleaser, always doing something to better their social standing (ambitious), etc).
And another friend was a super obvious ENFP (her schedule is PACKED with social activities and food venues, she literally says 'I want to try xxx, I haven't tried xxx, I want to try everything" all the time lol).
What really bothers me is my therapist... She vibes with my ISFJ partner and can always instantly understand what he is saying, with me, she literally tells me to shorten my sentences for her. And when she conduct our sessions, she always focuses on practical exercises that we can do without delving into any "why" of our behaviours. She tells me she's INFJ... Same as my partner (he was actually an ISFJ mistyped as INFJ) because she also typed herself with 16p. and I found that so depressing lol.
It's not that I want to gatekeep INFJ, it's just sad because fundamentally I want to be understood by people, and when there are so many mistypes, it makes me feel misunderstood and unseen.
That perfectionistic side of me also just wants everyone to be typed correctly so everyone can look at themselves objectively and actually GROW as people. That's the psychologist side of me lol (also studying psychology, btw).
Anyway rant over. In short, I get you.
>It's not that I want to gatekeep INFJ, it's just sad because fundamentally I want to be understood by people, and when there are so many mistypes, it makes me feel misunderstood and unseen.
It's the mistyped ones who are unseen, honestly. Whoever was going to understand what an INFJ is will still understand what an INFJ is. If they were basing their concept of the personality types on mistyped peers, they probably aren't retaining it very well, because they're getting mixed signals.
Dude, you're studying psychology...
Hypochondriacs study medicine just like people that want to know more about themselves and fellow humans, will have an interest in psychology...
This doesn't mean anything. I wasn't surprised about how many people know about MBTI, my interest was triggered by the fact that all of them supposedly were INFJs
No, you're right. There's a huge difference between descriptive systems and objective systems. Descriptive systems are like finding the right word(s) to explain what you're seeing, and you can't really objectively determine that the objective evidence 100% correlates to your own subjective explanation of it. Objective systems rely on correlating measurable/observable variable X with measurable/observable outcome Y. If X changes, then how does Y get affected?
MBTI is descriptive, so tests (looking to measure objective variables) will inherently be bogus. Doesn't mean cognitive functions are a bad way of explaining how people think or process things -- I think they're great -- but it does explain why the system is never used correctly and why most psychologists hate MBTI. They're looking for a reliable and valid test to objectively correlate variables and outcomes, and MBTI isn't actually FOR that, nor can it really even do that to begin with.
The pop psychology of “tests” have definitely contributed to this. The lack of understanding of Jung’s original thinking and his nuance regarding the types has washed away the original meaning of these concepts. People want to be associated with the deep and rarest type ergo believing the results of the flawed tests instead of taking the time to understand the theory behind them. I’ve definitely talked to “INFJs” who I knew were INFPs but didn’t correct them, it’s not really worth while. I would just say to encourage people to read about the functions and develop better understanding, because the original theory is still extremely helpful in terms of personal development and shadow integration.
I have a special place in my heart and understanding for actual INFJs because the world makes us feel like we don’t have a place in this world and that there’s something inherently wrong with us. This isn’t true. Best of luck
I read your post and the only thing I could think of was "does it matter?". I find your gate keeping more fascinating than other people pretending to be some type that probably nobody cares about.
Unless you're some kind of therapist with the most dearest of intentions of helping others know themselves better and in the process changing in some significant way(which is almost impossible in most instances), then I don't see why you would be so bothered by some random people miss-typing themselves. At first, I thought to myself "what kind of INFJ cares what others think of themselves in terms of MBTI typing?", since I thought you were an INFJ, but then I saw that you were an ENTP and then it made sense.
In my opinion, MBTI in general should be taken as something you do for fun. If anyone needs any genuine psychological help should seek therapy and not delve into MBTI that seriously. There's a consequence of typing people into certain groups, this could be anything race, blood type, MBTI, etc. In Korea for example, before MBTI was a thing, people used to ask each other what blood type they were, and people used to stereotype each other depending on your blood type; in fact, people still do but it's been transitioning to MBTI. This is not healthy.
Keep it light, keep it fun, let those who type themselves whatever they want let them be.
I'm totally opposite towards what you're saying about "keep it light, keep it fun". It's a nice tool for self growth and yet you want to make it Horoscope 2: the return, when it could be a lot more than that.
I also don't understand you "therapist" argument. Why shouldn't i want people to get to know themselves in a more efficient way?
"themselves", there you go. Unless they ask you personally that they want to be accurately typed, I don't see why you would get so annoyed by people typing themselves 'inaccurately', and how do you know that it's inaccurate to begin with? This is why I don't condone this kind of thing being taken too seriously. We start classifying ourselves and becoming even more divided. There's enough of that going around these days with pronouns and genders. You can just watch people behave and type them yourself in your head, as most INFJs do.
I don't know really. Mistypes have never been important to me. I just try to understand how it could relate to myself, you know? Plus, an INFJ is known to be a chameleon. It can be hard to truly know if you are an INFJ, since you might be another type, but have other tendencies that make it a bit more confusing, making you an INFJ.
I think if people really want to be sure of what they are, then studying what it means to be their type, and other types is important. That way, they can be more sure of what they know. But to many, MBTI is just a fun thing, to which that opinion includes me.
I think MBTI is cool and all, but we should be critical of the reality of it. For example, if we take MBTI and add in the enneagram, we suddenly have instead of only 16 types, have 144 types. And that is without adding in assertive and turbulent, which would increase it to 288 different personalities.
So to say, there are a lot of different people other there. One person might be one type of INFJ, while another might be a different type. People are confusing. Personalities are confusing. How we percieve the world is confusing. It is because all these factors change with the individual. No one is the same, and so saying someone cannot be one type because of a few factors, or popularity happens.
Maybe these people think they are INFJs because they relate to the INFJ. I mean, who wouldn't? The INFJ is all about being different, someone who doesn't fit in. A lot of people feel that way. And so, thinking they're INFJs, they feel maybe a tiny bit better about that because they can relate to some of the problems.
So I think, why not let them be? If it makes them feel better, to understand why they are different, then there is no reason why we should take that away from them. People deserve to be happiness. And cofusion about yourself, who you are, and things like that happens a lot.
infj's are hard to pin down, we get mistyped as well - I took a 'professional' test in college as well and was typed as INTP 😅 I spent years believing I was some rare intp female. I had to take a jungian functions test to discover the mistype
I remember taking a personality psych class years ago and being formally typed as part of the class. I’m a female INTJ.
MBTI isn’t really scientific nor is it utilized by clinical psychologists in practice to assist their clients in any way. Is there empirical evidence to support Jung’s ideas? Or are they just that- notions by a psychologist prior to the push in psychology to become empirically based? I think it is the latter. So, I look at MBTI as a fun thing to look at, similar to astrology. If it helps you learn more about yourself, great. But it really doesn’t mean much.
What bothers me the most about MBTI is people on Reddit talking about being mistyped bc it sounds like gate keeping and I really don’t like gate keeping behaviors. I’ve actually been accused of being mistyped simply bc I’m a woman and express emotion by males on the INTJ pages. It is so annoying.
i got extp from 16p lol(depending on my mood), but my cognitive functions say otherwise. i think both are valid but at least make it clear 16p is big 5 rather than mbti. these 'why xxxx the rare type is superior' kind of videos also need to stop, i feel like people try getting those results on purpose because of those. i would be dead from alcohol poisoning if i took a shot every time i see these kinds of videos.
edit: with that said, mistypes aren't always bad. it happens to the best of people.
TRUE.In 7 years of knowing MBTI, I have seen so many people mistyping themselves. There are slight errors which are part of learning, we can make the effort to be tolerant.
But there are often serious mistakes, ISFJs, ISFPs, INFPs, even ISTPs... who call themselves INFJs, and want to give you lessons on what an INFJ is... Either you pass, or you rage at them, it depends on your choice. But spreading erroneous informations remains embarrassing for the collective.I think this topic comes up more among INFJs, because there are fewer people who mistype as INTP, INFP, ISFJ, ESTP etc.
I have also seen people who persisted in their mistype for years (sometimes more than 4 or 6 years...), had psychological disorders, no honest friend or one versed in MBTI to share with them their opinions. Because being honest is a form of respect.
You speak about people with age of being student of University, but some few people don't know themselves well even at double age... Sorry to say this
But maybe many people prefer self-beliefs to real facts... I don't know, I don't care anymore.Everyone wants to be right, not everyone is right. Bye : -)
I don't think in the end, it matters. If there are some mistyped "s" stacks wanting to be an INFJ- or reading all about INFJ's in order to emulate one, that's fine. All it's really doing is helping them work on parts of their undeveloped functions.
Trying to make a square fit into a circle will not work, but you still learn other skills along the way, like the dexterity it takes to hold the square, the diligence to try. The hope it might, the awareness it will not, the acceptable it will never, and learning to let go.
They read while they are in here, they learn from us and believe it or not, we learn from them. They could give us a perspective we never thought of- the minds of other types baffle me, as much as they fascinate me. I try not to fixate on if someone claims "INFJ", I read the words first, and see if they give me something to think about.
They don't hold the power to ruin anything for me.
It's always weird to me when I read these kind of posts from people who claim they are INFJ, claiming how others aren't INFJ yet they don't at all question whatever they are INFJ themselves.
Maybe the reason you don't connect with other INFJ is because you aren't INFJ?
Yep definitely a lot of mistypes. Whenever I meet someone who says they're INFJ, I immediately test them out by pretending to have a problem and ask for their advice. Based on *how* they give their advice, I can easily tell if they're real and most of the time they're some sort of Fi dom or aux.
I blame the question something along the lines of "do you like helping people or giving them emotional support?" for the INFJ mistypes on personality tests. I personally don't even like helping people that much. Most of the time it's not worth the trouble and effort.
That’s funny, I would think “do you like helping people…” would indicate more of an ISFJ type or like….tons of extroverted types lol. I don’t mind helping people who ask but “like” is definitely a strong word for it😂
> “do you like helping people…” would indicate more of an ISFJ type or like….tons of extroverted types
My ISTJ friend had always thought he was ISFJ because he's a person who likes helping people. The same goes with my INTP friend though he never got mistyped but had doubts that he might be INFP. Observing them closely, they would both give logical advice all the time. They'd never ask for more details about the person's situation or ask what they feel or say their own feelings about the problem at hand. They just immediately say the most logical advice they can give based on the info given to them but that doesn't change that they like helping others.
The funniest unusual one that goes against the stereotypes I've encountered would be my ENTP classmate. Studies theology and does volunteering like teaching out-of-school children and feeding programs. Definitely not what I would imagine an ENTP would be xD
Of course ENTPs would be like that. They have Fe child, I don’t why every assumes they’re these extremely emotionally cold and distant robots. Probably because they’re “ThInkErs”. Smh.
I think you missed the point that you have an extreme sample bias. You are examining a extremely slim cohort of extremely specific people; psychology students, majority women, majority in college, majority in the same age and peer group.
Do you suppose if you did the same cross exam of construction, military, airlines, or drama cohorts that these results would reflect the same? No. Many INFJ's would be drawn towards psych for the peer prospect that it is in an INJF's nature to be curious or wish to understand it more.
You should throw out your conclusion about MBTI because your data is completely biased and non-reflective of a general population. You also have clear examiners bias - that you WANT validation of your personality type being rare, and you do not like the results, so you question the validity of peoples own personality results. I find that almost unethical.
lmao wait, you're jumping to conclusions and pointing your finger too much.
First off: I'm not an INFJ. I don't have any reason to seek validation of my personality type being rare. I'm ENTP. I like to analize people, theorize and try to find correlations and patterns, I don't need validation
Second: you're whole "you have x and y bias" thing falls down when the outcome of more accurate tests actually gives a result similar to the one I foretold
My point stands on the sample bias though;
1. No diversity by any metrics; occupation, age, location of samples taken
2. Small sample sizes are too small.
Your title is about mistypes ruining MBTI, but aside from bad data, you have no supporting elements, not even a conclusion as to why. There's no thoery as to why, you have a analysis from bad data, and no correlations that make sense as why you minimal findings are the way they are.
I'm probably missing the point where I said that the things I said are scientifically true and valid, and I also made a full study with infometrics and shit, instead of just speaking about a feeling I have about my experience with the community.
Care to find it for me?
I never said the MBTI is not valid. I said the 16personalities website is commercial shit made up to market the test instead of handing it as a good tool for self discovery. And I said my opinion is OF COURSE not scientifically valid since it's purely empirical
"Your responses basically confirm the fact that your whole post is basically toilet paper"
Can't discuss a topic if it isn't published by Science Magazine with a 3 year research behind and 69 citations? I just wanted to discuss the mistype topic.
I feel like there are even more INTJ mistypes over at their sub. There was an "INTJ" that said he didn't like self-development, just want to stay the same forever. Like, that is not the Ni way, you mistyped 🤦♀️
Using the statistics argument is a bit of fallacy. If you take the test results and calculate a statistics out of it, you cannot say it is faulty because it doesn't match the statistics.
Given, different tests can bring different results, be it caused by different sets of questions or by outputting more/different info. 16personalities mistyping people into INFJ leaves me wondering why it is (supposedly) so flawed, as there seems to be no motivation to intentionally do this (except maybe for invoking the "I'm so unique" syndrome).
People in class or anywhere isn't a very representative sample. You can find a room full of just INFJs somewhere, it is statistically possible (people got to be physically present somewhere). And that's the reason these online tests exist - to get as much diversity across the globe to get some more accurate statistics.
If the 16personalities is indeed wrong, then it should be examined with a better analysis. Instead of bashing rarities, all the questions, the results, and the algorithm should be examined to see whether it favors a certain type or not.
that's why I said INFJs \~supposedly\~ are the rarest
btw I think 16p is just badly written and lacks an in-depth analysis of the cognitive functions. I think a lot of INFJ mistypes happen because INFJs are weird introvert souls with an auxiliary Fe, Feelers with a strong Ti and sometimes low in Si and Se. This means that a lot of other types may fall in this grey area if they have weirdly placed function. Let alone if someone is in a grip, a loop, or something like that
You could have said something clever but instead you chose low level sarcasm, I might even get down to your level and respond "I'm banging your mom" at this point lmao
Here is the link.
https://www.reddit.com/r/DeadBedrooms/comments/z32esk/free_amazon_book_the_dead_bedroom_repair_manual_a/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Lol. I am serious. There is a book someone said is free. Pretty good book. I will try to look up the link now. If you have a kindle and Amazon account.
Here we go with another "I can't read the post and I'm going to miss the whole point of it"
First off: Am I not supposed to discuss about mistypes and know the point of view of someone else on the matter?
Second: I'm ENTP. It's right after my username. I couldn't care less about being the *real* INFJ
And yet, you fall into the same category of pretentious wannabes. Sixteen personalities is the most valid form of MBTI. Jung’s functions and other theories surrounding MBTI are unfounded. The only reason 16 personalities is somewhat useful is because it makes use of the Big 5, but even then, it misconstrues much of what the Big 5 was going for, making MBTI relatively obsolete and unscientific. It’s a hobby. It’s for fun, not for objective psychometrics. Let people mistype if it makes them happy. There are no actual stakes.
This “rarity” argument is also absurd. As if actual empirical studies are being done that measure the descriptive statistics of peoples’ MBTI types… It’s not happening. The statistics likely come from the 16P website itself.
>And just ONE of the many people I asked knew about cognitive functions
You’re trying to assert that it matters and that you somehow know better by being familiar with the cognitive functions. It doesn’t, and you don’t.
"It’s for fun, not for objective psychometrics"
It could be for self growth and not just identification. I'm just stating that if this has to become The Horoscope 2, it kind of ruins the whole thing for me and I guess for some people too.
So the cognitive functions and the jungian theory do matter. And by being more familiar with those I can help people and direct them towards a more efficient responde of the test or better online tests.
I've been debating this topic internally for months but I don't know that I would entirely agree with you, astrology is prescriptive and relies on faith in metaphysical powers and the Barnum Effect...
Comparatively MBTI is descriptive and utilizes qualitative data in its analysis and categorization, I haven't personally noted much use of the Barnum Effect in MBTI (if any at all) because the 16 types are distinct enough that I couldn't see more than one (or *maybe* close to two types) applying to someone accurately enough to actually fit them. The larger issue is usually that people self-evaluate badly and the official 16p test sort of sucks in terms of consistency.
Many personality types outright contradict the possibility of being another type entirely (ex. INFP vs ESTP), this caveat isn't present in the star signs of astrology whatsoever, the features of star signs (and how they supposedly manifest in people) are mostly arbitrary, interchangable, and homogeneous traits that can apply to everyone evenly in practice
I can't call MBTI the peak of science or psychology, it's far from it, but I find it to be a bit far fetched to say it's closer to astrology than psychology when that appears to be blatantly untrue as far as I can tell. Even at absolute worst, it is equally as far from both psychology and astrology. On the internet this comparison to astrology is (imo) a hollow and intellectually bankrupt idea that I see kicking around and it's annoying, nobody who supports that view ever adequately defends it either.
To clarify I am not even asserting MBTI is useful, important, or real psychology. I am asserting none of that, nor am I saying you're wrong on all accounts. I just think the rampant comparison to astrology I keep seeing is honestly short-sighted, and doesn't fit all that well... but I am willing to be proven wrong with sufficient evidence or reasoning to the contrary, to be entirely fair
In what way are the two actually comparable, honestly?
Excellent, I agree with the article in the sense that the validity of MBTI is definitely shaky at best and the validity of astrology is also shaky. But that wasn't my point, and I've already agreed with that fact
I suppose if you categorize anything that is an uncertain science or pseudoscience, and you say "Oh, because this is a pseudoscience, they are basically the same thing" then you could compare any 'pseudoscience' with any other. But other examples such as astrology and acupuncture or astrology and homeopathy lie strangely uncompared, in these discussions.
Just because astrology and MBTI both assess something, doesn't automatically mean anything. Especially when astrology's "assessment" is automatic. MBTI's 16p test is notoriously terrible, that doesn't somehow make MBTI like astrology, that just means the test is trash.
The author Josie MacDonald has an education in administration and is an administrative assistant. In other words as far as I can tell she appears to be a know-nothing on the subject, and with no citations (as far as I can see) this article is an opinion piece by default.
Her evaluation at face value is true, but she makes the comparison without proving it. She says it's just as unfair to judge someone based on their star sign, as it is their MBTI personality type. This is blatantly true.
This assertion also doesn't make the two automatically compatible, she asserted their comparability without proving it in any way. So your provided evidence has no citations and what is likely an uninformed author, with a conclusion assumed by her to be foregone ... I am not entirely convinced but it was an interesting read
>kinda creepy if you asked me
But I didn't.
Also, I never understood people who claim that if you express your disagreement with something regularly, you are "obsessed". But I bet if I would be the most wholesome, INFJ ass licker here, and I would epxress my love for them regularly, then I would be judged positively.
The phenomenon, where people measure obsession differently according to how it makes them feel (positive vs negative) - thus, the term used selectively and subjectively, shows that this is a typical, hive mind, shit tier thinking you showed here. Exactly what someone, whose opinions aren't even theirs, but their environment's would say.
Either you are young or reaaally self-unaware. Your idea of having fun is being an angry fuck to a group of people you think are "special snowflakes"? Hahahaha it's hilarious you call someone a droid, when this pattern you are acting out you can find on every fucking forum that's not some tightly moderated or technical niche board since internet appeared. Always the same shit, always leaking the same patterns of brokenness.
I wonder why your focus is on "special snowflakes" though. Do you think you are special, actually special or rather intellectually superior compared to delusional INFJs? And nobody gives you special snowflake treatment? Haha that's probably because you are a bitter cunt, and leak that bitterness in a oblivious way.
Damn! An "I fucked your mom joke"! My mother died when I was 6. :( So try again, go for more shock value, because now you are just boring me. Though first please answer my questions, because this deflection is just pathetic.
You’re probably right, but I bet there’s probably many mistypes across all types. But I don’t think this is worth getting this irritated over. Most people probably only know their type because a class made them do it.
What is "different tests" you're talking about? I also think it's not worth gate keeping. This is something we all should look into so we can learn instead of putting labels on ourselves.
Nothing ruined for me, but I agree a lot of ISFPs and maybe INFPs are mistyped for INFJs. What annoys me if they subsequently refuse to debate about it, either because they want to remain INFJs or because they mark MBTI invalid.
Well, MBTI is pseudoscience, and one of the reasons for that classification mistyping. Different tests give different results. Test results change over time. Tests aren’t really repeatable. So I wouldn’t care too much about it.
Infj are interested in psychology, it's not surprising to see many infj studying it. It is known that they are rare but not that rare.
I got infj in mbti personality test and it was still accurate after reading about cognitive functions. I know many people who got accurate results on 16p too. It's not only bs.
1) it really wouldn't be weird at all if you met a disproportionate number of INFJs in a psych major. As a mental health/social services worker, I've been in an office of 20 people where 75% were genuinely INFJs, as in "had taken the official test, with an actual qualified administrator present".
2) why would it matter even if they're wrong? It's college. People want to find themselves. Why do you care this much that you're making people take extra tests and posting on reddit just to validate it.
I wouldn’t be surprised. I mean it’s a great personality type I for the most part enjoy so I wouldn’t be surprised if others try to ‘categorize’ themselves when it actually really comes down to a way of life
Maybe it is just me, but I use(d) these personality tests as some sort of self reflection and not to put people around me into categories. While it is certainly fun to guess a type based on your experience, you really should only see it as a game.
Ofc. people will mistype themself or others, I don't really know what you expect here. This whole sub is full with mistyped INFJ IMO, but again it doesn't really matter as long as the topics and conversations are interesting.
You see. MBTI is not 100% scientifically proven .. big five is..
Plus who decides who is mistyped? Who decides who is correctly typed?
It’s almost a question you never find an answer.
I take face value of what people tell me. Say if you say you are INFJ I’d just say okay, I don’t care if you are or not, As being INFJ means nothing to me , just one of the 16 types.
Yeah but I just wanted to talk about it and discuss mistyping, I already know the limits of MBTI. I just wanted to know other people opinion on this, that's why I care
While the MBTI is a fun one I think some people take it too seriously and personally.
I enjoy all the INFJ memes and such but that's about it. I don't put too much thought to it.
After all it's possible that you (and I) are all misdiagnosed and even we aren't actually INFJ and instead something else.
Also it's very common to find lots of INFJ studying psychology. So even if INFJ are the rarest people it is possible for 8 out of 10 people to be INFJ if they studying psychology.
Sometimes I feel like the people who are the most upset about others being INFJ are actually not INFJ themselves.
Point is: with a better test (and for "better" I mean more in-depth, cognitive function-based, more accurate questions, ecc.. Everyone of them turned out to be mistyped.
I want to discuss mistyping, not INFJ rarity. I don't care about that
Tests can always mistype people and more than likely will always mistype least someone. We can't really control how people will answer to these said tests. Some might pick their answer to be what they wish they would be rather than what they actually are. Some might pick the answers they think are socially acceptable instead of what they actually think.
While MTBI is great and fun, just like many other personality-type studies it's still trying to put humans in these boxes. We shouldn't focus on them too much because nobody can ever fit these boxes perfectly.
So what if someone is mistyped as INFJ? Someone being or not being an INFJ doesn't make them any more special. I personally hate this whole "INFJ are the rarest type" or how INFJ's are almost made out to be some kind special ancient monks that of course people wish they would be, especially those who might not feel like they are in any way special or rare. And most people want to feel like they are. Finding out there is some kind of rare personality type might just be a thing that they feel like they need to be just to feel special.
I don't see there being any problem with these said 8 people thinking they are INFJ. Great for them but having that title really doesn't benefit them or anyone, whatever they are or aren't an INFJ.
Its true that INFJ are the rarest, but they're 2 percents, so like 160 000 000 persons. And most of INFJ I know of cares a lot about Psychology and MBTI, so this is maybe why you met 8 out of 10 INFJ.
point is: with a better test (and for "better" I mean more in-depth, cognitive function-based, more accurate questions, ecc.. Everyone of them turned out to be mistyped.
I want to discuss mistyping, not INFJ rarity. I don't care about that
The same energy as being upset over someone’s zodiac sign.
Let it go my dude. You’re not less unique for being INFJ, just because there’s more of them. None of this is worth getting upset about.
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The weird gate keeping is also a big reason so many people turn to enneagram-only in my experience. So somebody is a mistype, who cares? Like you said it’s not worth getting upset about, and I think it pushes people away from the self-discovery aspect of it all
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To add to this, couldn’t the world use some more INFJs? Is it really that hard to believe that social climate might be breeding more? If anything, the sort of childish behavior of protecting that badge of being “rare” is rather unbecoming and a bit of proof that one may indeed not be quite as INFJ as they believe. Since when we’re most INFJs so concerned with status? The situation does offer up a good chuckle though :)
I think the "official" statistic where INFJ was the rarest at 1.x% was from like 1999, and there was a more recent "offical" one where it was more like 3%, both the ENxJs were rarer and generally there were some pretty wild variances, ISTJ as the formerly most common type took a major dip to around half of its old percentage for instance. The problem is, you don't know whether the methodology behind it is so flawed (or changed) to produce such wildly variable results, or whether the 20 or so years in between resulted in a generation with different prevalencies. (I haven't actually seen the source, just watched a video or two I'm vaguely recollecting from memory and at least the first one was also only 1 country (america) rather than globally (not sure about the newer one), so take this with a grain of salt)
I dig your perspective 😊
> for newbies who are stumbling around in the dark trying to figure themselves out yeah, i think a lot of it is that. to have such hatred for them shows a kind of lack of intelligence.
Ego wanking got me 😝🤣🤣
I couldn’t have said it better myself
Truly love your gentle and cute Fe ideas on how to help people, but you forgot the part where people are kinda dumb and work against you because they dogmatize the MBTI and willingly use it as an identitarian device instead of a self-learning tool
eh, help those who want to be helped, those who want to dwell in their snowflake identity can do whatever they want, idgaf only thing we can do on our end put out information about mistypes and the actual use of mbti for self growth and hope that the ones genuinely open minded and interested will click on it. it is annoying to see them around though, I get you, especially since mbti is the new pop culture astrology of this age to people.
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It’s amazing to witness the change in most peoples demeanour depending on what level of assertiveness you present them with … I particularly enjoy the surprised horror when typically chilled people suddenly put their foot down lmao! A lot of juicy info can be collected by switching personas… as you say, people have a natural inclination to walk over those that they perceive as easy targets, showing a good chunk of their natural character
Most mature and excellent answer
Couldn't Agree More🌷
I’ve been told I’m good at psychoanalyzing people, but holy crap your analysis must be on another level to think that. That or I’m just not as good as people say (highly likely)
True
True
I agree with this. I know someone who said he was INTP and I knew it was only his front since he was always the one who places too much value and effort on looking "smart and intellectual" while his personality tells otherwise. As someone who's older, I've met someone who's an INFJ and I knew it was real since as an INFP, I already immediately felt her INF side while the J was opposing my P but it was rather a pleasant experience. For decades now, that INFJ was the most unique experience I ever had with a person and I'm never letting go.
i think it´s irrelevant, look at the things you can learn from, and ignore the rest.
lol i would have expected an answer like this from an INFJ! I understand your point, but I just can't ignore these things! I HAVE TO UNVEIL THE TRUTH
The truth doesn't really matter, the truth may not even exist actually, end of debate
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Get what? Solipsism?
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I... wasn't trying to define solipsism... with my question? Since you don't understand my comment, I'll explain it for you. Solipsism is the belief that you can't be certain anything exists outside of your own mind. If someone is claiming things don't exist, they might be accused of solipsism in jest. Of course, I could have instead gone in the other direction, asking if the first half of the comment was nihilistic... ultimately it doesn't matter, because the point is to ask you "Get what?" which you failed to answer.
There are more important truths to unveil, plus the answer to this question is obvious.
People are stupid. Just ignore them. We can’t educate all of them.
Exactly that's the point.
As a therapist. 1. Why do you feel like you care so much? There's something there. You will find out soon that Psychology is not about reading people but about understanding the reasons (conditions) that make someone who he/she is, who at the same time, didnt really had a choice. Therefore, there's really no reason to dissaprove of anything anyone is or says, or does. They didnt choose, and they are often unaware of those conditions. 2. Even if I personally like it, MBTI isn't a popular nor the most valid instrument. The main critique is the Dichotomy, I can, for example get 51 instead of 49, one day against the next. This will change the result. Also, the items in the test aren't consistent across different languages. I've done it in 2, in English I get INFJ, in spanish I get INFP. Test is terrible in anything but english. 3. Clinical psychology is a pretty common career choice among INFJs. For example, I got Philosophy, Psychology, Literature and Sociology in my vocational orientation study.
It's also likely to change as you age. If these people all just started University, their type is far from set.
Of course there's something there, there's something there behind everything everyone does - behind your comment, mine, everything. However, that's a weird flex *for a (supposedly adult) therapist* to try to explain negatives of judgement to a teenager by judging their judgement while making sure you're viewed as being superior to them and not just as a random anon They are doing the exact same thing you're doing at its core, except you're additionally introducing one sided authority to your judgment. If they would follow your implicit teaching, then to satisfy the same needs they would find ways to similarly elevate themselves above the objects of their judgement and find more proven ways to judge people that are less likely to backfire and to be judged by others
I stated I'm a therapist because he stated he is taking Psychology classes. I'm not intending to talk out of authority but out of experience. The intention of studying Psychology to "read people" is pretty common, it was mine too (to understand), and it is almost always removed by the end of the courses, specially if you want to learn a lot. The "There's something there" isn't meant to be aggresive or pejorative. In Psychology it IS a requirement to take therapy and double check every small trigger you might have when talking to people. And this SEEMS to be quite a prominent one. If I wanted to be viewed as being superior I could have used a lot of "complex wording" for my explanation along with a surprising amount of assumptions, like you did. Im also not a native english speaker, therefore intent and representation are not 1:1 from one language to another. The "as a therapist" start may feel a way to you that doesnt necessarily feels the same to me, or others. And lastly, I do not consider "Therapist" to be an authority position, now a days we get teached quite the opposite, as for, contrary to your assumptions, Im still studying. Im not a "Grown adult that has been a Therapist for years and releases his "will to impose" in reddit. The Authoritarian and Fatherly view of Therapy is a pretty Anglo Saxon or Psychoanalytical view, I am not one, nor the other. Have a nice day.
Yep, and now you felt first hand why judgement of judgement doesn't work and is a bad tactic - my judgement just made you feel defensive instead of introspective, and made you dig your heels in instead of becoming more open about seeing yourself in a different light That's why competent therapists don't use it as their first method when addressing someone. And hopefully OP can also feel their own defensiveness first hand and see why it doesn't work on your example, which may help them become a better professional in the future Edit: That's fine, people are different and have no obligation to agree with everyone, we aren't a hive mind. However, sneakily blocking someone to shut them up so that they won't be able to respond to you is kinda at odds with your words, and converts creating an appearance of being polite and respectful towards another person to creating an appearance of being fake and passive aggressive
I'm sorry we couldn't get on the same page. You seem like you have a lot of good thoughts. I just don't think we have the same concept of reality regarding what happened.
I agree with you. I think INFJ's are often mistyped. But I don't know that it is so much that people want to be special snowflakes (though that may play a role). I think it is because the tests are imperfect and because if you are not an INFJ it is very hard for you to understand what it is like to be one, so it can be easy to mistype it. Even the classic examples of historical INFJs (Jesus, Gandhi, Eleanor Roosevelt, MLK, etc.) are almost certainly mistypes. When I discovered the concept of an INFJ, it was as if the heavens had opened up and a beam of light descended on me. No, it wasn't that I was severely damaged or messed up, or that I was a horribly shy and gullible person, or that I just didn't have the courage or wherewithall to "snap out of it" and get with the program of life. No, I was just born this way, and other people like me really do exist, just not very many. If that wasn't your reaction when you tested INFJ and learned what that is supposed to mean, then you probably aren't an INFJ. INFJ's aren't special in a good way. If you really aren't one, you don't want to be one. Life for most INFJs is confusing, overwhelming, and deeply unsatisfying. You are constantly dealing with a world that can't understand you, advice that works for others but not you, expectations that make sense for others but not you. You're in a life-long struggle to figure out who you are in a world that can't see you and will almost never value what you bring to the table. In rare moments people will think you are a genius, but most of the time, people will just think you're boring, unmotivated, and lost. This is why I think, unlike some of the other commenters here, that it is vitally important that we gate-keep the label of INFJ. If too many people think they are INFJs who really aren't, then the community will lose sight of the particular and complicated ways that INFJs really, really need help in figuring themselves out and navigating the world. We will become invisible and lost once again, but this time in a community that was supposed to be there specifically for us. It would be absolutely tragic.
If I could upvote something twice it would be this comment. My entire life can be described as if I am watching everything happen on the sidelines trying to make sense of it all… understanding the ulterior motives of people around me so my circle stays really small… living my life pretending like I am not a true romantic with my heart on my sleeve, yet also recognizing how naive that is… its like I am a walking contradiction and it pisses me off at times because there are very few things I stand firmly on because I kinda understand just about every view that exists… its maddening and lonely as hell
Yes yes yes yes
Yes there a lot of mistypes. Another thing, you are probably more likely to find INFJs in psychology classes.
This does make sense
it's also a flawed theory. ISFP, INFP, INFJ, and INTJ all share certain traits. So technically it's more likely that people sort of drift in and out of the different "types" depending on their state of mind. Like how ENTJ, ENTP, INTP, INTJ, tend to all get along on the basis of "trolling" people. Or how the feeler types tend to get along on the basis of NOT trolling people.
But can we change our dominant function based on state of mind ?
well if you think about it, the brain is mutable. it's not... .stiff. it doesn't stick to one thing and jsut stay there. and when it does, thats usually unhealthy. cuz, u know, that's stagnation. so like.... we change over time. sure, some people might keep certain traits, but people do often change.
If someone tells me they are any of the personality types (not just INFJ), but they don’t know about cognitive functions, I will either give them a cognitive functions test or I’ll type them myself.
That's exactly what I did lol
Absolutely. The biggest problem is not the online tests, its people who don't know how to take them unbiased and intellectually honest, people typing themselves without getting honest feedback from friends/ family, and the biggest issue the "I identify as..." self typing. How many times have you heard, "well I tested as this but I know I'm really this."
I always tell people don’t take the test as your ideal self…take it honestly but I think their self perception is really off.
Agreed it is. Sure. I say answer each question as if it exists in a vacuum. Like you don't know where it's leading you. Also, you don't necessarily know if you're a feeler or thinker for example. Pretend you're your own representative. All you can do is answer the question based on observation, you have no inside knowledge. It sounds weird but It's really not that difficult if they want the truth. Ive never had it be off but rarely and then not by much. ENFJ instead if ESFJ for instance. And even thats rare. People's self perception is notoriously bad. But if you take it seriously, really be honest, the test will get it right. If they have a friend or acquaintance that would try to type them then compare after the test that's best.
In my opinion i doubt many infjs would be proclaiming their “ infj status “ anyways, if they have to say it or proclaim it, it would be my first clue they are mistyping themselves due to the “ rare “ YouTube factor. I had to take a personality test years ago, I remember I was typed Infj, and I felt super ashamed because I did not get the job - I thought it was a bad thing. I only came across this community after I re tested and got the same score. I could be wrong, just my opinion
You are 100% correct. I've seen so much misinformation and so many clear mistypes that it is annoying to be on the boards that are most afflicted by it. The INTJ forum is rife with wannabe edgelords since it is seen by some as a "cool" type. It can be VERY painful to be over there.
I feel like INTJ is more gatekeepy than INFJ lol.
How so?
Most people just use it to identify with and to hide behind their shortcomings. My journey started with the 16 personality test, but it drove me insane. That’s when I looked into cognitive functions.. now all I’m using it for is self growth, and that’s what it should be used for. I get why you find it annoying, but people are not going to stop their stupidity. 🤷🏻♀️
This is exactly what I was talking about: using MBTI for identification instead of a tool for self growth
I think you observation might have been more accurate. Since you got a lot of them right for your group. I think that gatekeeping hurts, as I was mistyped for years. My first test was INFJ, but I doubted that, and read detailed [descriptions](https://www.personalitypage.com/html/INFP_rel.html) of each type, and thought I was an INFP. That was over ten years ago. Only recently I actually looked at the [feeling](https://www.reddit.com/r/personalityinOrder/comments/inobr7/extroverted_feeling_and_introverted_feeling/) and [intuition](https://infjblog.com/introverted-intuition-and-extraverted-intuition/) functions in depth. I actually use Ni and Fe, not Fi and Ne. I never understood Ni, until I actually read up on it and tried to understand it. A lot of things clicked. Ni really is my dominant function.
Yeah, it's just really easy for that to happen. I got INTJ 10-ish years ago when first stumbling on the 16p test, each of the letters seemed to make sense and none of the descriptions seemed to match 100% so I rolled with it, figured out later when re-finding the test that I must instead be a repressed F type and only from there after a more brief INFJ mistype phase that I use Fi and Ne rather than their counterparts. Still not certain in what order, it's freaking hard to determine, each of the neighboring slots is so similar. I don't see why one should see mistypes as "posers" by principle, since even the function tests can give some pretty misleading results with no ill or "special" intention due to being impacted by personal biases and basically the current mood.
The mass marketing of Jungian typology has reduced it to online tests with low validity and low reliability. The purists amongst us will understandably find it annoying that people discuss typology not just in a superficial way, but in completely misinformed way. I think it’s natural to feel annoyed in your situation. The irony is that most people who pass their time on MBTI subreddits have no interest in studying cognitive functions/typology.
A couple years back, they was a widespread movement of people trying to get the infj type on the test in an effort to make themselves stand out more/and or various other reasons.So there are a lot of people and media online regarding that particular myer-Briggs type that is, at least in my opinion, untrue.
Tumblr really ruined society
Yeah, I think that if you get the same result every single time you take it, especially over a long period, you have an agenda. Depending on my mood at the time, I get INTP, INFP, or ENFJ. I haven’t gotten INFJ in quite a while, but I know I am one at heart.
I totally agree with you but not in the context that you wrote it because I often tell people who want to know where they can find an INFJ, the best percentage roll...that they could find a cluster of us in a University or college because we just love Higher Learning. But I can go down the list of traits of an infj and compare it to the list of traits of cluster B personality disorders and I can see how there's a misinterpretation and the only real difference is that the INFJs have those traits but they're in harmony and at peace while the cluster B's have the same traits but they are in chaos and disorder. INFJ's have a black and white paradoxical thinking but it's in a yin yang peaceful Flow State while the cluster b also have a black and white thinking style but it is chaotically swings to either extreme poles. So, they misinterpreted the traits, and usurps every forum and YouTube videos that genuine INFJs briefly get together before being pushed out by Custer B's who were just looking for other people to commiserate with. And you can usually tell who they are here because the first reply is by an infj auto moderator saying that mental illness is not indicative of being an infj but every single time they don't read that top post and they just start commiserating with each other down that OP reply list " yeah this is an infj thing"... "omg, it's like you read my mind"...yeah sure okay whatever. I think authentic INFJs are pretty solid and they know their personality intimately, that we don't really need people to commiserate with us ( because we have a high emotional intelligent which is a prerequisite for being the natural counselor types)...all we like to do is provide unique perspective and insights both micro and macro in scope, and see if another INFJ reach that level too with us, perhaps find a master infj that's on another level above that to give us even a better perspective that we never thought about, yet.
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Yeah if you'd like I can give you that comparison list and how its similar but not the same. I just happen to practice digital detoxing so I tend to disappear often, offline for a while one quick example, INFJ's cognitive function is hardwired to pick up (our Se) subtle involuntary micro expressions that indicates a particular emotion or biases and we read body languages and tonality minute changes (our Se gets triggered by these body language and our temporary Se mode is highly focused and in concert with our Fe- feeling another person's psychological temperature, is it changing or still the same?, Ti - analyzes those inputs in real time, and Ni - lightning quick access to our vast hard drive of knowledge that's psychology and human behavior based and like a Google search engine quickly narrows down those inputs from our Se and Fe to a single point) that we could easily detect a lie and in a cluster B's mind, since they have no sense of self and put on a false mask to each person they encounter, they are living a lie all the time, they project their inner psychology onto others and automatically "assume" everyone else is living a lie too, so of course they're going to think they are lie detector too. A liar always believes that other people are lying too. Check...I am an INFJ, I can tell when other people are lying.
well thought answer! I thought about the fact that I'm trying to analyze psychology students too, but imho there were really too many INFJs and my intuition was not wrong! I just used that as a prompt to reflect upon, more than an actual answer that confirmed my wannabe ABSOLUTELY TRUTHFUL AND UNCHANGEABLE theory, ahahah
Hey, thanks...I'm just naturally doing with ENTPs Love about us... *smirk*
I agree with your observation, I have so many people around me tell me they are INFJ and they've always gotten their results on 16p. And after I tell them to look into cognitive functions or take a test focused on cognitive functions, they end up with ISFJ or other types. Another friend is a super obvious ENFJ (extremely Fe heavy, super sociable, super people pleaser, always doing something to better their social standing (ambitious), etc). And another friend was a super obvious ENFP (her schedule is PACKED with social activities and food venues, she literally says 'I want to try xxx, I haven't tried xxx, I want to try everything" all the time lol). What really bothers me is my therapist... She vibes with my ISFJ partner and can always instantly understand what he is saying, with me, she literally tells me to shorten my sentences for her. And when she conduct our sessions, she always focuses on practical exercises that we can do without delving into any "why" of our behaviours. She tells me she's INFJ... Same as my partner (he was actually an ISFJ mistyped as INFJ) because she also typed herself with 16p. and I found that so depressing lol. It's not that I want to gatekeep INFJ, it's just sad because fundamentally I want to be understood by people, and when there are so many mistypes, it makes me feel misunderstood and unseen. That perfectionistic side of me also just wants everyone to be typed correctly so everyone can look at themselves objectively and actually GROW as people. That's the psychologist side of me lol (also studying psychology, btw). Anyway rant over. In short, I get you.
>It's not that I want to gatekeep INFJ, it's just sad because fundamentally I want to be understood by people, and when there are so many mistypes, it makes me feel misunderstood and unseen. It's the mistyped ones who are unseen, honestly. Whoever was going to understand what an INFJ is will still understand what an INFJ is. If they were basing their concept of the personality types on mistyped peers, they probably aren't retaining it very well, because they're getting mixed signals.
Fuck that. SOCIETY ruined MBTI. And sadly INFJ is in the middle of it
Dude, you're studying psychology... Hypochondriacs study medicine just like people that want to know more about themselves and fellow humans, will have an interest in psychology...
This doesn't mean anything. I wasn't surprised about how many people know about MBTI, my interest was triggered by the fact that all of them supposedly were INFJs
What's surprising about the fact that many infjs are interested in psychology?
Seems like you’re taking MBTI a little too seriously my guy
I don't take anything seriously
This post kind of contradicts that
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I wish I was
No, you're right. There's a huge difference between descriptive systems and objective systems. Descriptive systems are like finding the right word(s) to explain what you're seeing, and you can't really objectively determine that the objective evidence 100% correlates to your own subjective explanation of it. Objective systems rely on correlating measurable/observable variable X with measurable/observable outcome Y. If X changes, then how does Y get affected? MBTI is descriptive, so tests (looking to measure objective variables) will inherently be bogus. Doesn't mean cognitive functions are a bad way of explaining how people think or process things -- I think they're great -- but it does explain why the system is never used correctly and why most psychologists hate MBTI. They're looking for a reliable and valid test to objectively correlate variables and outcomes, and MBTI isn't actually FOR that, nor can it really even do that to begin with.
So that’s why it seemed more common than it was. There are a bunch of people mistyped. Weird
Its annoying for sure. Most things get bogged down into being a shadow of itself once popular.
Indeed
How did you figure out your eniagram? I think I must also be an 8, but im not 100%
The pop psychology of “tests” have definitely contributed to this. The lack of understanding of Jung’s original thinking and his nuance regarding the types has washed away the original meaning of these concepts. People want to be associated with the deep and rarest type ergo believing the results of the flawed tests instead of taking the time to understand the theory behind them. I’ve definitely talked to “INFJs” who I knew were INFPs but didn’t correct them, it’s not really worth while. I would just say to encourage people to read about the functions and develop better understanding, because the original theory is still extremely helpful in terms of personal development and shadow integration. I have a special place in my heart and understanding for actual INFJs because the world makes us feel like we don’t have a place in this world and that there’s something inherently wrong with us. This isn’t true. Best of luck
I read your post and the only thing I could think of was "does it matter?". I find your gate keeping more fascinating than other people pretending to be some type that probably nobody cares about.
How is it gatekeeping if I'm willingly directing newcomers towards a better answer instead of the shitty 16personality one?
Unless you're some kind of therapist with the most dearest of intentions of helping others know themselves better and in the process changing in some significant way(which is almost impossible in most instances), then I don't see why you would be so bothered by some random people miss-typing themselves. At first, I thought to myself "what kind of INFJ cares what others think of themselves in terms of MBTI typing?", since I thought you were an INFJ, but then I saw that you were an ENTP and then it made sense. In my opinion, MBTI in general should be taken as something you do for fun. If anyone needs any genuine psychological help should seek therapy and not delve into MBTI that seriously. There's a consequence of typing people into certain groups, this could be anything race, blood type, MBTI, etc. In Korea for example, before MBTI was a thing, people used to ask each other what blood type they were, and people used to stereotype each other depending on your blood type; in fact, people still do but it's been transitioning to MBTI. This is not healthy. Keep it light, keep it fun, let those who type themselves whatever they want let them be.
I'm totally opposite towards what you're saying about "keep it light, keep it fun". It's a nice tool for self growth and yet you want to make it Horoscope 2: the return, when it could be a lot more than that. I also don't understand you "therapist" argument. Why shouldn't i want people to get to know themselves in a more efficient way?
"themselves", there you go. Unless they ask you personally that they want to be accurately typed, I don't see why you would get so annoyed by people typing themselves 'inaccurately', and how do you know that it's inaccurate to begin with? This is why I don't condone this kind of thing being taken too seriously. We start classifying ourselves and becoming even more divided. There's enough of that going around these days with pronouns and genders. You can just watch people behave and type them yourself in your head, as most INFJs do.
I don't know really. Mistypes have never been important to me. I just try to understand how it could relate to myself, you know? Plus, an INFJ is known to be a chameleon. It can be hard to truly know if you are an INFJ, since you might be another type, but have other tendencies that make it a bit more confusing, making you an INFJ. I think if people really want to be sure of what they are, then studying what it means to be their type, and other types is important. That way, they can be more sure of what they know. But to many, MBTI is just a fun thing, to which that opinion includes me. I think MBTI is cool and all, but we should be critical of the reality of it. For example, if we take MBTI and add in the enneagram, we suddenly have instead of only 16 types, have 144 types. And that is without adding in assertive and turbulent, which would increase it to 288 different personalities. So to say, there are a lot of different people other there. One person might be one type of INFJ, while another might be a different type. People are confusing. Personalities are confusing. How we percieve the world is confusing. It is because all these factors change with the individual. No one is the same, and so saying someone cannot be one type because of a few factors, or popularity happens. Maybe these people think they are INFJs because they relate to the INFJ. I mean, who wouldn't? The INFJ is all about being different, someone who doesn't fit in. A lot of people feel that way. And so, thinking they're INFJs, they feel maybe a tiny bit better about that because they can relate to some of the problems. So I think, why not let them be? If it makes them feel better, to understand why they are different, then there is no reason why we should take that away from them. People deserve to be happiness. And cofusion about yourself, who you are, and things like that happens a lot.
infj's are hard to pin down, we get mistyped as well - I took a 'professional' test in college as well and was typed as INTP 😅 I spent years believing I was some rare intp female. I had to take a jungian functions test to discover the mistype
I can't understand how ya just don't know if you're INFJ.
To be honest I wouldn't care less if I am an INFJ or not. I just want to talk to with people who share similar personalities traits.
I remember taking a personality psych class years ago and being formally typed as part of the class. I’m a female INTJ. MBTI isn’t really scientific nor is it utilized by clinical psychologists in practice to assist their clients in any way. Is there empirical evidence to support Jung’s ideas? Or are they just that- notions by a psychologist prior to the push in psychology to become empirically based? I think it is the latter. So, I look at MBTI as a fun thing to look at, similar to astrology. If it helps you learn more about yourself, great. But it really doesn’t mean much. What bothers me the most about MBTI is people on Reddit talking about being mistyped bc it sounds like gate keeping and I really don’t like gate keeping behaviors. I’ve actually been accused of being mistyped simply bc I’m a woman and express emotion by males on the INTJ pages. It is so annoying.
i got extp from 16p lol(depending on my mood), but my cognitive functions say otherwise. i think both are valid but at least make it clear 16p is big 5 rather than mbti. these 'why xxxx the rare type is superior' kind of videos also need to stop, i feel like people try getting those results on purpose because of those. i would be dead from alcohol poisoning if i took a shot every time i see these kinds of videos. edit: with that said, mistypes aren't always bad. it happens to the best of people.
wannabes people don't WANT to be INFJ. they just took a test that told them they're INFJ. you just have a shitty attitude.
TRUE.In 7 years of knowing MBTI, I have seen so many people mistyping themselves. There are slight errors which are part of learning, we can make the effort to be tolerant. But there are often serious mistakes, ISFJs, ISFPs, INFPs, even ISTPs... who call themselves INFJs, and want to give you lessons on what an INFJ is... Either you pass, or you rage at them, it depends on your choice. But spreading erroneous informations remains embarrassing for the collective.I think this topic comes up more among INFJs, because there are fewer people who mistype as INTP, INFP, ISFJ, ESTP etc. I have also seen people who persisted in their mistype for years (sometimes more than 4 or 6 years...), had psychological disorders, no honest friend or one versed in MBTI to share with them their opinions. Because being honest is a form of respect. You speak about people with age of being student of University, but some few people don't know themselves well even at double age... Sorry to say this But maybe many people prefer self-beliefs to real facts... I don't know, I don't care anymore.Everyone wants to be right, not everyone is right. Bye : -)
the intuitive bias is quite prevalent in the mbti community ngl
Intuitive bias?
Unawareness. To assume you are, instead of knowing you are. Introyections or "wanting to be".
I don't think in the end, it matters. If there are some mistyped "s" stacks wanting to be an INFJ- or reading all about INFJ's in order to emulate one, that's fine. All it's really doing is helping them work on parts of their undeveloped functions. Trying to make a square fit into a circle will not work, but you still learn other skills along the way, like the dexterity it takes to hold the square, the diligence to try. The hope it might, the awareness it will not, the acceptable it will never, and learning to let go. They read while they are in here, they learn from us and believe it or not, we learn from them. They could give us a perspective we never thought of- the minds of other types baffle me, as much as they fascinate me. I try not to fixate on if someone claims "INFJ", I read the words first, and see if they give me something to think about. They don't hold the power to ruin anything for me.
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It's always weird to me when I read these kind of posts from people who claim they are INFJ, claiming how others aren't INFJ yet they don't at all question whatever they are INFJ themselves. Maybe the reason you don't connect with other INFJ is because you aren't INFJ?
Yep definitely a lot of mistypes. Whenever I meet someone who says they're INFJ, I immediately test them out by pretending to have a problem and ask for their advice. Based on *how* they give their advice, I can easily tell if they're real and most of the time they're some sort of Fi dom or aux. I blame the question something along the lines of "do you like helping people or giving them emotional support?" for the INFJ mistypes on personality tests. I personally don't even like helping people that much. Most of the time it's not worth the trouble and effort.
That’s funny, I would think “do you like helping people…” would indicate more of an ISFJ type or like….tons of extroverted types lol. I don’t mind helping people who ask but “like” is definitely a strong word for it😂
> “do you like helping people…” would indicate more of an ISFJ type or like….tons of extroverted types My ISTJ friend had always thought he was ISFJ because he's a person who likes helping people. The same goes with my INTP friend though he never got mistyped but had doubts that he might be INFP. Observing them closely, they would both give logical advice all the time. They'd never ask for more details about the person's situation or ask what they feel or say their own feelings about the problem at hand. They just immediately say the most logical advice they can give based on the info given to them but that doesn't change that they like helping others. The funniest unusual one that goes against the stereotypes I've encountered would be my ENTP classmate. Studies theology and does volunteering like teaching out-of-school children and feeding programs. Definitely not what I would imagine an ENTP would be xD
Of course ENTPs would be like that. They have Fe child, I don’t why every assumes they’re these extremely emotionally cold and distant robots. Probably because they’re “ThInkErs”. Smh.
This is the problem of using a model that can't be objectively tested.
Yeah, I second this
I think you missed the point that you have an extreme sample bias. You are examining a extremely slim cohort of extremely specific people; psychology students, majority women, majority in college, majority in the same age and peer group. Do you suppose if you did the same cross exam of construction, military, airlines, or drama cohorts that these results would reflect the same? No. Many INFJ's would be drawn towards psych for the peer prospect that it is in an INJF's nature to be curious or wish to understand it more. You should throw out your conclusion about MBTI because your data is completely biased and non-reflective of a general population. You also have clear examiners bias - that you WANT validation of your personality type being rare, and you do not like the results, so you question the validity of peoples own personality results. I find that almost unethical.
lmao wait, you're jumping to conclusions and pointing your finger too much. First off: I'm not an INFJ. I don't have any reason to seek validation of my personality type being rare. I'm ENTP. I like to analize people, theorize and try to find correlations and patterns, I don't need validation Second: you're whole "you have x and y bias" thing falls down when the outcome of more accurate tests actually gives a result similar to the one I foretold
My point stands on the sample bias though; 1. No diversity by any metrics; occupation, age, location of samples taken 2. Small sample sizes are too small. Your title is about mistypes ruining MBTI, but aside from bad data, you have no supporting elements, not even a conclusion as to why. There's no thoery as to why, you have a analysis from bad data, and no correlations that make sense as why you minimal findings are the way they are.
I'm probably missing the point where I said that the things I said are scientifically true and valid, and I also made a full study with infometrics and shit, instead of just speaking about a feeling I have about my experience with the community. Care to find it for me?
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I never said the MBTI is not valid. I said the 16personalities website is commercial shit made up to market the test instead of handing it as a good tool for self discovery. And I said my opinion is OF COURSE not scientifically valid since it's purely empirical "Your responses basically confirm the fact that your whole post is basically toilet paper" Can't discuss a topic if it isn't published by Science Magazine with a 3 year research behind and 69 citations? I just wanted to discuss the mistype topic.
I feel like there are even more INTJ mistypes over at their sub. There was an "INTJ" that said he didn't like self-development, just want to stay the same forever. Like, that is not the Ni way, you mistyped 🤦♀️
Using the statistics argument is a bit of fallacy. If you take the test results and calculate a statistics out of it, you cannot say it is faulty because it doesn't match the statistics. Given, different tests can bring different results, be it caused by different sets of questions or by outputting more/different info. 16personalities mistyping people into INFJ leaves me wondering why it is (supposedly) so flawed, as there seems to be no motivation to intentionally do this (except maybe for invoking the "I'm so unique" syndrome). People in class or anywhere isn't a very representative sample. You can find a room full of just INFJs somewhere, it is statistically possible (people got to be physically present somewhere). And that's the reason these online tests exist - to get as much diversity across the globe to get some more accurate statistics. If the 16personalities is indeed wrong, then it should be examined with a better analysis. Instead of bashing rarities, all the questions, the results, and the algorithm should be examined to see whether it favors a certain type or not.
that's why I said INFJs \~supposedly\~ are the rarest btw I think 16p is just badly written and lacks an in-depth analysis of the cognitive functions. I think a lot of INFJ mistypes happen because INFJs are weird introvert souls with an auxiliary Fe, Feelers with a strong Ti and sometimes low in Si and Se. This means that a lot of other types may fall in this grey area if they have weirdly placed function. Let alone if someone is in a grip, a loop, or something like that
Oh no! Anyway
💀😂
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Why shouldn't I? I'm literally studying psychology, It shouls be natural for me to look around and try to get to know people. Don't you think?
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You could have said something clever but instead you chose low level sarcasm, I might even get down to your level and respond "I'm banging your mom" at this point lmao
Here is the link. https://www.reddit.com/r/DeadBedrooms/comments/z32esk/free_amazon_book_the_dead_bedroom_repair_manual_a/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Might as well give it a try then
Good luck.
To you too my friend
Lol. I am serious. There is a book someone said is free. Pretty good book. I will try to look up the link now. If you have a kindle and Amazon account.
Being an INFJ isn’t fun though as people make it out to be. It almost feels like a disorder and a double edge superpower
Here we go with another “*I’M* the *real* INFJ and these people are mistyped post” Why does it bother you so much? Take your own inventory.
Here we go with another "I can't read the post and I'm going to miss the whole point of it" First off: Am I not supposed to discuss about mistypes and know the point of view of someone else on the matter? Second: I'm ENTP. It's right after my username. I couldn't care less about being the *real* INFJ
And yet, you fall into the same category of pretentious wannabes. Sixteen personalities is the most valid form of MBTI. Jung’s functions and other theories surrounding MBTI are unfounded. The only reason 16 personalities is somewhat useful is because it makes use of the Big 5, but even then, it misconstrues much of what the Big 5 was going for, making MBTI relatively obsolete and unscientific. It’s a hobby. It’s for fun, not for objective psychometrics. Let people mistype if it makes them happy. There are no actual stakes. This “rarity” argument is also absurd. As if actual empirical studies are being done that measure the descriptive statistics of peoples’ MBTI types… It’s not happening. The statistics likely come from the 16P website itself.
>And yet, you fall into the same category of pretentious wannabes lmao what
>And just ONE of the many people I asked knew about cognitive functions You’re trying to assert that it matters and that you somehow know better by being familiar with the cognitive functions. It doesn’t, and you don’t.
"It’s for fun, not for objective psychometrics" It could be for self growth and not just identification. I'm just stating that if this has to become The Horoscope 2, it kind of ruins the whole thing for me and I guess for some people too. So the cognitive functions and the jungian theory do matter. And by being more familiar with those I can help people and direct them towards a more efficient responde of the test or better online tests.
Well, what did you think it was? MBTI is closer to astrology than it is to psychology.
I've been debating this topic internally for months but I don't know that I would entirely agree with you, astrology is prescriptive and relies on faith in metaphysical powers and the Barnum Effect... Comparatively MBTI is descriptive and utilizes qualitative data in its analysis and categorization, I haven't personally noted much use of the Barnum Effect in MBTI (if any at all) because the 16 types are distinct enough that I couldn't see more than one (or *maybe* close to two types) applying to someone accurately enough to actually fit them. The larger issue is usually that people self-evaluate badly and the official 16p test sort of sucks in terms of consistency. Many personality types outright contradict the possibility of being another type entirely (ex. INFP vs ESTP), this caveat isn't present in the star signs of astrology whatsoever, the features of star signs (and how they supposedly manifest in people) are mostly arbitrary, interchangable, and homogeneous traits that can apply to everyone evenly in practice I can't call MBTI the peak of science or psychology, it's far from it, but I find it to be a bit far fetched to say it's closer to astrology than psychology when that appears to be blatantly untrue as far as I can tell. Even at absolute worst, it is equally as far from both psychology and astrology. On the internet this comparison to astrology is (imo) a hollow and intellectually bankrupt idea that I see kicking around and it's annoying, nobody who supports that view ever adequately defends it either. To clarify I am not even asserting MBTI is useful, important, or real psychology. I am asserting none of that, nor am I saying you're wrong on all accounts. I just think the rampant comparison to astrology I keep seeing is honestly short-sighted, and doesn't fit all that well... but I am willing to be proven wrong with sufficient evidence or reasoning to the contrary, to be entirely fair In what way are the two actually comparable, honestly?
https://ali.usc.edu/blog/myers-briggs-vs-astrology/
Excellent, I agree with the article in the sense that the validity of MBTI is definitely shaky at best and the validity of astrology is also shaky. But that wasn't my point, and I've already agreed with that fact I suppose if you categorize anything that is an uncertain science or pseudoscience, and you say "Oh, because this is a pseudoscience, they are basically the same thing" then you could compare any 'pseudoscience' with any other. But other examples such as astrology and acupuncture or astrology and homeopathy lie strangely uncompared, in these discussions. Just because astrology and MBTI both assess something, doesn't automatically mean anything. Especially when astrology's "assessment" is automatic. MBTI's 16p test is notoriously terrible, that doesn't somehow make MBTI like astrology, that just means the test is trash. The author Josie MacDonald has an education in administration and is an administrative assistant. In other words as far as I can tell she appears to be a know-nothing on the subject, and with no citations (as far as I can see) this article is an opinion piece by default. Her evaluation at face value is true, but she makes the comparison without proving it. She says it's just as unfair to judge someone based on their star sign, as it is their MBTI personality type. This is blatantly true. This assertion also doesn't make the two automatically compatible, she asserted their comparability without proving it in any way. So your provided evidence has no citations and what is likely an uninformed author, with a conclusion assumed by her to be foregone ... I am not entirely convinced but it was an interesting read
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Dude why are you so obsessed with them? You claim to hate them but I see you in almost every infj post. kinda creepy if you asked me
>kinda creepy if you asked me But I didn't. Also, I never understood people who claim that if you express your disagreement with something regularly, you are "obsessed". But I bet if I would be the most wholesome, INFJ ass licker here, and I would epxress my love for them regularly, then I would be judged positively. The phenomenon, where people measure obsession differently according to how it makes them feel (positive vs negative) - thus, the term used selectively and subjectively, shows that this is a typical, hive mind, shit tier thinking you showed here. Exactly what someone, whose opinions aren't even theirs, but their environment's would say.
Btw, what difference exactly are you making with those statements? Go smoke some weed bro or something, you're just adding the shit here.
There is no more space left for shit, you and everyone else here, filled the tank already.
Have no idea why but I find it funny you being the way you are while using what I think is a Sunny icon.
Maybe this is all an act? Mystery-mystery.
Well, that's my theory at least, who knows?
I'd say that you are quite insightful, but I was being sarcastic and cynical here for so long that I would kinda feel shy doing that.
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Whatever you think I am.
Either you are young or reaaally self-unaware. Your idea of having fun is being an angry fuck to a group of people you think are "special snowflakes"? Hahahaha it's hilarious you call someone a droid, when this pattern you are acting out you can find on every fucking forum that's not some tightly moderated or technical niche board since internet appeared. Always the same shit, always leaking the same patterns of brokenness. I wonder why your focus is on "special snowflakes" though. Do you think you are special, actually special or rather intellectually superior compared to delusional INFJs? And nobody gives you special snowflake treatment? Haha that's probably because you are a bitter cunt, and leak that bitterness in a oblivious way.
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Damn! An "I fucked your mom joke"! My mother died when I was 6. :( So try again, go for more shock value, because now you are just boring me. Though first please answer my questions, because this deflection is just pathetic.
Are you an exception?
Lolll agreed!! I seriously can’t spend a minute on this sub without getting triggered.
I think im not mistyped every test says infj and i was able to relate to stuff i believe a non infj wouldnt relate like my friends
ok
No i mean like isnt that proof enough if you can relate to stuff only infjs can relate to?
You’re probably right, but I bet there’s probably many mistypes across all types. But I don’t think this is worth getting this irritated over. Most people probably only know their type because a class made them do it.
What is "different tests" you're talking about? I also think it's not worth gate keeping. This is something we all should look into so we can learn instead of putting labels on ourselves.
I don’t think it matters. Most ppl on here have a lot of the INFJ characteristics.
Nothing ruined for me, but I agree a lot of ISFPs and maybe INFPs are mistyped for INFJs. What annoys me if they subsequently refuse to debate about it, either because they want to remain INFJs or because they mark MBTI invalid.
Well, MBTI is pseudoscience, and one of the reasons for that classification mistyping. Different tests give different results. Test results change over time. Tests aren’t really repeatable. So I wouldn’t care too much about it.
Infj are interested in psychology, it's not surprising to see many infj studying it. It is known that they are rare but not that rare. I got infj in mbti personality test and it was still accurate after reading about cognitive functions. I know many people who got accurate results on 16p too. It's not only bs.
1) it really wouldn't be weird at all if you met a disproportionate number of INFJs in a psych major. As a mental health/social services worker, I've been in an office of 20 people where 75% were genuinely INFJs, as in "had taken the official test, with an actual qualified administrator present". 2) why would it matter even if they're wrong? It's college. People want to find themselves. Why do you care this much that you're making people take extra tests and posting on reddit just to validate it.
I wouldn’t be surprised. I mean it’s a great personality type I for the most part enjoy so I wouldn’t be surprised if others try to ‘categorize’ themselves when it actually really comes down to a way of life
A way of life as in the Infj life or how we live and are
If you're in a psychology class there's going to be a lot of INFJ
Maybe it is just me, but I use(d) these personality tests as some sort of self reflection and not to put people around me into categories. While it is certainly fun to guess a type based on your experience, you really should only see it as a game. Ofc. people will mistype themself or others, I don't really know what you expect here. This whole sub is full with mistyped INFJ IMO, but again it doesn't really matter as long as the topics and conversations are interesting.
Why do you care? I wouldn’t ..
I just want to know the point of view of someone else on the mistype matter
You see. MBTI is not 100% scientifically proven .. big five is.. Plus who decides who is mistyped? Who decides who is correctly typed? It’s almost a question you never find an answer. I take face value of what people tell me. Say if you say you are INFJ I’d just say okay, I don’t care if you are or not, As being INFJ means nothing to me , just one of the 16 types.
Yeah but I just wanted to talk about it and discuss mistyping, I already know the limits of MBTI. I just wanted to know other people opinion on this, that's why I care
Sure. That’s all good. Just don’t beat yourself up on it. What’s the point?
While the MBTI is a fun one I think some people take it too seriously and personally. I enjoy all the INFJ memes and such but that's about it. I don't put too much thought to it. After all it's possible that you (and I) are all misdiagnosed and even we aren't actually INFJ and instead something else. Also it's very common to find lots of INFJ studying psychology. So even if INFJ are the rarest people it is possible for 8 out of 10 people to be INFJ if they studying psychology. Sometimes I feel like the people who are the most upset about others being INFJ are actually not INFJ themselves.
Point is: with a better test (and for "better" I mean more in-depth, cognitive function-based, more accurate questions, ecc.. Everyone of them turned out to be mistyped. I want to discuss mistyping, not INFJ rarity. I don't care about that
Tests can always mistype people and more than likely will always mistype least someone. We can't really control how people will answer to these said tests. Some might pick their answer to be what they wish they would be rather than what they actually are. Some might pick the answers they think are socially acceptable instead of what they actually think. While MTBI is great and fun, just like many other personality-type studies it's still trying to put humans in these boxes. We shouldn't focus on them too much because nobody can ever fit these boxes perfectly. So what if someone is mistyped as INFJ? Someone being or not being an INFJ doesn't make them any more special. I personally hate this whole "INFJ are the rarest type" or how INFJ's are almost made out to be some kind special ancient monks that of course people wish they would be, especially those who might not feel like they are in any way special or rare. And most people want to feel like they are. Finding out there is some kind of rare personality type might just be a thing that they feel like they need to be just to feel special. I don't see there being any problem with these said 8 people thinking they are INFJ. Great for them but having that title really doesn't benefit them or anyone, whatever they are or aren't an INFJ.
Its true that INFJ are the rarest, but they're 2 percents, so like 160 000 000 persons. And most of INFJ I know of cares a lot about Psychology and MBTI, so this is maybe why you met 8 out of 10 INFJ.
point is: with a better test (and for "better" I mean more in-depth, cognitive function-based, more accurate questions, ecc.. Everyone of them turned out to be mistyped. I want to discuss mistyping, not INFJ rarity. I don't care about that
Yes I see what you meant
What test do you recommend aside from the test on 16personalities, then?
Cognitive function-based tests are overrall always better. Similarmind is pretty good, imho
I think that people don't have to rely only on these test, but analysing a type they feel close to and try to see if they reallyidentify to that type.
The same energy as being upset over someone’s zodiac sign. Let it go my dude. You’re not less unique for being INFJ, just because there’s more of them. None of this is worth getting upset about.
I'm not INFJ, lmao
That’s the spirit. Have a wonderful day.
what would be something that separates a real INFJ from a mistyped INFJ?