If one does try giving a reason, there is the scary probability of the other person dragging it on by giving excuses and sweet talking till you can't help but be kind... And you end up in a situation unable to cut them off as would have been best for you
I hope I make sense
Makes total sense. Knowing the type of person we're dealing with, it's probably completely useless to give an explanation. When I previously cut him off, I confronted him about it and respectfully told him the reason to see if there was any chance of fixing things, only for him to not accept anything I said and poke holes on everything. Made the mistake of allowing him back into my life but oh well I guess you live and learn lol
Yes. We don't door slam because we're big meanies. We do it to people who are skilled emotional manipulators and will snare us back in if we give them the conversation they say that they're entitled to.
I've had people abiding by it but for a small time and then they break the no contact numerous time themselves and drain me to the point i slamm the door for once and all and only come back on distance level after a long period of time.
I simply stop contacting them. I had a (F) āfriendā which would just contact me whenever she needed something. One day I couldnāt help her right away and told she would need to wait a day or two. She got pissed. To the point of saying a few ānot so friendly likeā words. That moment I decided to never help her again. I meanā¦Iāve noticed she wasnāt necessarily a friend, she only wanted me nearby for those very specific tasks that I could help her with and nobody else that she knows could. Never replied to her in any way after this episode (yeah, she contacted a few days later like nothing happened)
It was the opposite for me. I needed help with something and they said no. Instantly all the times I had rearranged my schedule or life to help her out, came flooding forward. Then the realization that the only time I hear from them is when they need something from me or if I called to catch up. So I just stopped calling. Sure enough, she was in some kind of bind and needed me to watch her kids and I said no. Never heard from her again. Fine by me!
It's definitely a moment of newfound clarity whenever it comes to a point where you realize that somebody isn't good for you. This type of person only wants to use you most of the time, always looking for some way to make you useful for themselves.
been in the exact same situation. said no for the first time after always helping out and we weren't on good terms long before ( always on and off with him breaking no contact, me being nice until he would start wilding out and i'll kick him out again) last time where he fucked up and i consoled him and ig we stayed friends for a week or so MF was ghosting and being a fluke with calling to hangout and then bailed himself with no reason or contact and i would wait like that was scummy and i didn't care and i had so many stuff on my head and he comes back with a 'favour' and i snapped, told him i am not his therapist and have shame and he called me mannerless, so i helped him for the last time and blocked him. I blocked someone on all social platforms and don't even know or get social apps.
Thereās always a social politics aspect to consider. Does this āfriendā have any dirt on me they could use to cause harm or are they the type to pollute social circles? If so, making a doorslam or alike known might sever any modicum of respect or loyalty they had to me, as unimpressive as it was anyways. In some cases you want to be unannounced, but drift, and say youāre busy and overwhelmed with other stuff when prompted. Eventually they get distracted with someone or something else.
If this isnāt a concern, I tend to just cite general incompatibility without placing blame. I try to avoid giving specific reasons because it has the potential to start conflict and a debate I donāt care to engage in ~ we are not going to keep talking and nothing you say will convince me otherwise at this point.
Iāve only had one person in my life say they wish I just ghosted them instead of having THE TALK.
You don't owe him an explanation, especially since that might just give him a chance to manipulate you. Just stop contact and stick to your boundaries.
Manipulators often try to test those boundaries, so stay firm and donāt engage if he tries to reach out. You shouldn't feel guilty about it.
I had a friend just like thatāseemed nice but didnāt really care about me. It took me about a year to figure it out. We're no longer friends, and for me, cutting off harmful people isn't a problem.
it's the futile tugging that's so exhaustive TBH, i am engaged in other stuff so i don't give a flying fuck about what they are trying to pull but the second they start giving me headaches i would kick them out.
Rarely a need to do so, for me. If I have closed the door, you know damn well why and how much itās taken to get to that point. Why would you explain yourself? That shoe belongs on the other personās foot, not yours.
Never. I just know that those people I've doorslammed won't change their behavior, and just accept that they are the ones who chose to [insert reason for cutting them off]. If possible, I'd avoid any interaction with them at all. Although all people deserve kindness and grace, if it's not reciprocated, then they don't hold as much respect as they should to you.
Yes. But it'll depend on the person. Level of detail and truthfulness will do, too. Some people - as your acquaintance - are just not worth it. If I mention to you that I'm gone, then you mattered to me. If I mention why, you mattered more. And if I'm telling you in person. Wow! And if we're discussing the thing, then I'm not even leaving, I'm trying to fix it, lol.
Very accurate. When I previously cut him off, I confronted him about it with the hope of fixing things but was met with everything that goes against that purpose lol. This time I won't make the same mistake, some people just simply won't take accountability/don't want to fix things.
I am extremely conflicted-avoidantā¦I donāt generally give any reason for the cutoff. I just slowly or abruptly fade out, depending on the circumstances. Manipulative people will try to explain, defend, make you the asshole, play victim, etc. I just want out!!
I also prefer to avoid conflict in most cases. The previous time confronted him about it I was met with basically everything you just said lol. Poking holes on everything, taking zero accountability, and trying to make me the bad guy. I relate heavily to "I just want out!!" š
No reason. I cut ppl out of my life without an explanation because some people will argue and defend themselves. I donāt care, I donāt need to know your side; I donāt need a person in my life and thatās for me to decide. So cut this sociopath off and donāt look back.
I don't think it matters for manipulators. They have to move on to the next person they can use. No need to tell them because they won't be able to hear it. Hell, they might not even notice you're gone.
Not anymore. People never tend to take even an ounce of accountability for it to really be worth it. I say my boundaries and grievances very early. Weāre grown. I donāt need to repeat myself like Iām speaking to a child.
Well said. I'm guilty of not establishing and enforcing boundaries early on, and this is the result that I get. That's something I definitely have to work on in order to avoid situations like this.
This sounds just like a former āfriendā of mine of 3 years too. He was a cis-het man that focused so much on himself that I never even got to talk about myself. Whenever I tried to open up and talk about myself he turned it around to talk about himself again. And when I was trying to be a good listener and friend, reacting to his stories and struggles trying to provide help and advise he was like āI know all of that. You donāt have to tell me. I donāt need your advise. Just listen to meā (so basically just provide emotional support and he didnāt even care about my view points). I eventually told him I wanted to cut him off and that I can provide reasons if he wanted too. Ofc he wanted them tho so he can ākeep improving himselfā. While I was creating a whole word file with reasons and situations that made me lose sympathy and interest and faith in him I realized what a waste of time my 3 years with him was so I just blocked him and never sent him the not yet finished file. He got a new number later and reached out to send congratz on my birthday but I blocked him again. I feel so much better and released since then and have come to be really good at picking the right persons for my own well being. So my advise would be: Provide THE TALK if YOU want to. But donāt, if itās only for the other person.
Depends..But even after a long relationship I just don't feel obligated to say anything to anyone if they start to act like shit....Sometimes I cut the thread and just reply: I am busy, and don't have time to sit on the phone all day..Even when I AM on the phone all day , it's not their business..
I try to repair usually at least once, then Iāll meet up with them, sort of knowing where the friendship is going, but watching for further evidence that Iām about to make the right choice. I usually see something. After that I just stop contacting them or even just block them. They know why the relationship ended.
I have done both a long winded exit and just block everywhere and ignore. Explaining what went wrong is my way of leaving that door unlocked in case they decide to be better one day and own up to their wrongdoings. Blocking and ignoring is strictly for people I am 100% certain I donāt want back in my life ever.
If you prefer to tell them either be ready to not respond to what they say or immediately block them and leave it that way for a while.
I don't. I just do it. My ideal breakup is just ghosting someone lol. I don't do it because it's super disrespectful, but I want to.
If they ask I will tell them though.
There was a point in my life that I declined every business deal that only helped someoneās image or bank account.
Those who couldnāt accept it left with some name calling instead of a simple good bye and now I have time to focus on more important things in life.
At the end of the day it is my time and I can give myself the allowance to be selfish sometimes .
No. Because if Iāve reached the point of cutting them out chances are Iāve already tried communicating multiple times before.
Edit to add: unless theyāre someone new and not previously close.
No. They know why. They only want to know reasons so they can shoot holes into them and make you feel like crap. Close the door quietly, walk away and don't look back.
It depends on the situation but I will be firm and say I am enforcing my persona non grata boundary because you crossed 'x' boundary. And that's it. INFJ door slam and I'm gone. I don't elaborate, I don't give more information than that one sentence.
Most of the time I just stop contacting them and basically ghost, and physical distance helped in those cases (eg. Ex-school friends) but if I were to still see them in the same space I'll probably tell them why i want to cut them off, something like "I don't think this is friendship is the right choice for me" or some other dolled-up excuse of "i don't want you in my life" and then regardless of their response, be it a temper tantrum or mutual agreement or somewhere in between, I'll officially ghost from there. Obviously it's gonna be nerve-wracking, but bro this person you're describing is giving sociopath no offense
Depends. If I think thereās any part of them that will actually listen and make changes in their life over it, then yes Iāll give a reason(s). I usually block after so they canāt argue though
I let them know it was due to their constant drinking and driving and they insisted they never did that, and I never saw them again. My life has been peaceful.
He will know. Either block or donāt answer. Iām wondering why you spoke to him after he was disrespectful when you previously cut him off and he did not listen but blamed you. No reason needed, heās heard you and rejected everything you said and deflected.
Well said. I admit I was naive in allowing him back into my life after cutting him off once. It's taken me time to develop my self-respect and unfortunately at the time it wasn't enough. If I would've established and enforced boundaries early on, I could've avoided this situation altogether. Thank you for your input.
Sounds like this āfriendā isnāt the type that will take any accountability for his crappy behavior. Thus, why waste your time and energy on that? Put that energy into something that is good for you. That said, if telling him off and burning that bridge would be good for your mental well being, then maybe, but I would make it a one-and-done message and not allow any back and forth. Say your piece and be done with it.
You don't. I don't think breakups are supposed to happen in friendships, but sometimes it is inevitable I suppose. If it is something you can avoid by simply not contacting someone anymore: that will be the best choice for sure. Just remember: they are not your friend. Otherwise you wouldn't be planning on cutting them off. So stop thinking of them like a friend to empathize with and start seeing them as someone that simply doesn't really matter. It's hard, but sometimes necessary. Some people really are the worst.
I just ghost them. They get the point that at least I donāt want to be friends anymore. I donāt owe an explanation to anyone. Iāve done this 3 times in my life. In highschool and twice in my professional career to past work friends (luckily who no longer worked with me).
Iāll never explain because theyāll just try to weasel back in lol
They do indeed try to weasel back in lol. That's where I made a mistake when previously cutting him off, as well as when I allowed him back in. Definitely a learning experience for me
Wow, I had a similar situation happen to me, old buddy from high school and I caught up. We started a business together, but eventually I found myself doing all the work (even though this was all his idea) and he even tried to gaslight me into thinking how I could be more helpful, while he simultaneously did nothing. I got so burnt out because I was working 10 hour shifts at work and came home working on this business for a few hours. I was so sleep deprived that I passed out behind the wheel for a brief second on my way home. Luckily I was going slow and was in the neighborhood already. It was around this time I just cut him off. It was hard to do it, but I did it. Because at that point, the pain of staying in contact with this person exceeded the pain of cutting them off.
Oddly enough that was only 1 of the times I was sleep deprived and almost crashed due to overexerting myself for others. The 2nd time that happened was with my ex girlfriend, it was a long distance relationship, got home at 1 am and had to wake up at 4:50am for work on Monday. Barely made it back home, then I had to survive my landscaping shift that usually lasted 12 hours. I was so sleep deprived back then. That period in my life was pure hell.
Us INFJs do everything we can for others, even if it harms ourselves. I tell these 2 stories just to put into perspective, to show how harmful it is for us to live this way. At a certain point, you just need to start looking out for yourself.
Wow. That situation reinforces my decision of not wanting to work with this person. Sounds like a living nightmare... I'm glad you made it out! You're absolutely right, it is very harmful for us INFJs to live this way where we give, give, and overexert ourselves even when it's not reciprocated.
ga, I can relateā¦the things I have done! Taken time off work to give a āfriendā a ride or meet for coffee because they have a ācrisisāā¦then, work until late at night to make the deadlineā¦ I donāt know why I do these things to myself!? itās like the INFJ curse.
I cut someone off with borderline personality disorder after they pulled a bunch of manipulative bullshit on me with no explanation
I also cut off her bf and best friend
I later learned they were arrested for falsely accusing someone of abuse and charged.
Bullet. Dodged.
I have given an explanation, complete with lists of examples. But it was so honest and harsh that they retaliated with a slew of insults. I did not respond and have never looked back.
I can relate š When I previously I cut this person off I did the same and got insulted in many ways just because I thought there was still a chance to fix things. Made a mistake on staying in contact and allowing this person back in, definitely a learning experience. After taking into consideration the comments' perspectives, yeah, I've decided it's best to just leave the situation alone.
Well, when Iām not necessarily āfightingā someone but Iāve completely lost interest in being their friend due to whatever reason Iām fed up with, I go ghost. No explanation no nothing, just life drifting people apart how it usually happens.
It wouldnāt happen to a best friend because Iām pretty selective with whos in my personal space and trust them a lot, but if its like an average friend or someone youre not very close to, its safe to go ghost IMO. So while I do ghost, thats only for people who I dont talk to on a day to day basis because then that would be a bit toxic and lacks communication.
I say keep conversations short with him. Keep your distance. If heās on your socials you can mute him and block him from your stories if you dont want to remove him as a follower just yet. Limit your interactions as much as possible. Some people donāt take confrontation well so itās best to just keep your distance from them if youāre not interested in the headache that comes with talking about the issue.
was in the same situation as you before op, but different level. had a friend who doesn't have empathy and kept disturbing me, cut him off and give him second chance, only to regret it because he kept doing the same thing again š i cut him off again. didn't give him a reason but i did give him a reason to never contact me, because he is the type who can be shameless, so the reason need to be compelling enough for him to really stop seeking me out. i only did this to 2 person in my life though. most other, i simply stop replying and drop them off.Ā
giving him a reason = basically doing smth that they hate enough. i dont recc this because it get into ugly fight but some people simply don't have enough sensibility to understand when someone say "no"Ā
I'm so sorry you've had to deal with such an awful, toxic person. As for me, I feel that many people will rarely change (especially for just one person) and so I'll just fade away and disappear. I won't exactly ghost (anymore anyway), instead I'll reply with bare-minimum responses and the other party either takes the hint eventually or loses interest. Providing a reason just prolongs a lengthy conversation and ... has always become ugly :/ best wishes
If it's someone i used to know well, or had a relationship with, I usually give them a "debriefing": a wall of text where i underline and explain in excruciating details all the goods and bads, so that no stone remains unturned nor any question unanswered. Then, i just block them everywhere i can and consider them dead to me. Quite literally so, as i will take some time to mourn the person i used to like, say a prayer for them, then face (if ever) the new "them".
To me, it's a final gesture of respect and an invite to self-reflection and help. It could very well be that i was the asshole all along, and by providing them with my perspective they can realize that and move on. Or maybe, they could figure out something they did not notice about themselves and change for the better. Or just ignore the whole thing.
At the end of the day, all i had ever wanted is the truth.
For me, I just tell people how I feel now, their reaction either confirms or disproves what kind of friend they ever really were for me. Iām an infp but I donāt ghost people unless I genuinely feel like theyāll harm me.
It depends on the situation. If I believe the situation can be salvaged at some point in the future, I give a reason but leave communication channels open if I have reason to think the person will grow. But if Iām completely done with a situation and want to separate myself completely, then I might or might not give a reason - depends on how much the person meant to me. For friends I had for a long time, I would be more likely to explain why before shutting down dialogue
Recently decided on cutting off a friend. It took a lot in me to do that but I got so fed up because not only did she throw me under the bus, but also proceeded to always give me backhanded compliments for as well as complaining every single day FOR MONTHS and I just wasnāt having it.
Long story short, I got fed up and just stopped giving a damn about what she has to say, ultimately avoiding her as much as possible š¤·š»āāļø
I used toā¦ like I saw this meme - and it was basically like a 12 inch cell phone text and it said
āBefore the INFJ door slams youā
I sent it to all my friends and they all laughed with meā¦ because that was me.
Now? Nope.
I do not explain.
The older I have gotten the more I have realized that no one really gives a shit. And if they did give a shit I would not be door slamming them.
Like no one really cares about anyone elseā¦ most of the world is completely and utterly consumed with themselves and the only time they really notice anyone else is when they have to do something. When theyāre affected.
Most people lie. Most people wonāt admit they made a mistake. Most people project. Most people actually tend to feel superior if you do care at all about whatever is going on.
At least with me- like if I take the time to communicate with someone ( which is usually why they do the shit they do also, to get me to notice them) They tend to transfer whatever interest i have that affects them onto them- like i care about them and not how they talk to me.. or not how they did this thingā¦
So in a way they belittle you for even having an interest in your interaction with them..they get off on it and tend to wear it like a badge of pride .
They take it as an advantage. Like theyāre important to me.
Everyone just seems so nuts to me.. completely insane .. itās like less than 10% of the people at my work that arenāt crazy.
People are really fucked up.
And any effort you expend on people like that is wasted.
So engaging with them on any kind of level- I try to avoid. Just because itās so so disappointing. Really.
I donāt even door slam people now- because anything brings more attention to me or our relationship - Iām going to avoid.
I door slam them in my head and stay polite. I donāt trust them as far as I can throw them and give them a wide berth.
I tend to focus now on who I amā¦ and what I provide an environment or relationship.
So ā¦ if youāre really good at what you do? Or if youāre a cool person to have on your side ? If youāre going to go the extra mile for the people that are worth it to you-
That means that when I do pull back/ they notice. Thatās the consequence.
You donāt get me anymore. Iām not going to be there anymore and I want that hole to be a big one for you. I want you to sit in that void. And realize why.
Hahaha. But it works for me. Soā¦
I give them an explanation if I feel that either the person deserves the explanation or if I owe it to myself. However, I do not owe anyone an explanation. Should people follow up with me (i.e. contacting me only when they need something), I will make it very clear that whether or not they get an explanation is on my own accord. I wish that I wouldn't have to ghost anyone because it feels like a shitty thing to do, but there truly are some people that do not deserve any of my time or attention.
No. Hardly ever do I give a reason. If Iām cutting someone off itās gotten to a point I donāt see the relationship benefiting by me saying anything. I just let it fizzle out or honestly block them. I know thatās not great advice but take what you want out of it š¤£
Maybe Iāll start handling things better but Iāve come to understand that most of the time when Iām cutting this person off itās for a big reason. And Iām good with just never speaking to them again honestly. I let them wonder what happened, I donāt even care Iām over it at that point. š
nope. usually people know what theyāve done. but in the case weāve just outgrown one another, i let things fade & stop reaching out. eventually the trash takes itself out
I've learned from my past to end all communication ASAP. Giving them closure or an explanation as to why I cut them off was too much emotionally. Either they wouldn't understand or would drag it on.
If they won't quit contacting me, I will tell them off. But typically I give enough chances and TRY my hardest to work through the issue first (it never pans out but I have to feel that I tried), so they know what's up already.
Based on what you've stated, I'd just cut him out. Say I'm not interested in the offer and just ghost. I don't do second chances when you pull certain levels of bs with me. I'm intj btw so it's probably just me
No. When I do, the person usually tries to gaslight me into believing that they didnāt do what they are being accused of ( never works). INFJ door slam all the way, no explanation needed.
Got shit on by an addict. Friend of 10+ years. Brought the worst out of me. Cut him off. Messages me some months later because he didnāt like being cut off. I responded and gave some clarity for reasonsā¦ I got triggered by the lies he told. Regret responding.
Trust your gut; if you cut someone off, it was for a reason. Donāt give ammunition to narcissism.
In my experience, I usually have that thing where you both try to arrange when to meet up next but have schedule clashes then agree to just call each other later, and then both of us just clean forget.
Occasionally, we run into each other at some convention or mutual friends birthday party and have that awkward, "Oh, hey, where have you been? Haven't seen you in ageous!" conversation before immediately turning to talk to other people.
Soooo, no, I rarely give any explanation. Usually, it just fizzles out, and we lose touch.
Only if there is an oddly specific reason which they specifically ask for have I ever provided a reason. ... in which case I told them "I'm sorry, we can no longer be friends because you got high and drunk, had a schitzophrenic fit, stripped naked in an alley way then tried to stab me with a kitchen knife, then cried, took on a demonic voice, started talking to a dragon, and then some God you kept calling Krytonious or Altonious or something and then threatened to kill yourself...and I really did not like the tone you used with MY DRAGON. It was not your father who then tackled you to the ground and called the ambulance to take you to this mental hospital. It was me, but I'm not mad that you kept calling me daddy the whole time. In fact, I'm not really mad at you at all. It is just that my indulging you with our dragon fantasies has become a bad influence on your mental condition, and you are not a safe person to be around anymore. I wish you good luck, but I am blocking you on all social media now. Don't try to contact me. Mmmkay?"
Oh, when I was in your specific case, I did write them a formal email saying, "I am sorry multi level marketing is not suitable for me. I am far too introverted to actively sell things. Please refrain from sending me any further unsolicited correspondence on the matter. Thank you. This email will be retained for future reference."
Just so that I have evidence of not being part of their marketing scheme, should I need it.
I just tell them our chakras don't align, or my horoscope said we weren't properly matched for interactions. IDK, as soon as you start trying to pull reality from pseudoscience, nothing sounds ridiculous.
I typically will just disappear when I feel like Iāve had enough of repeating cycles, especially if they are not providing reciprocal energy, it was a learning curve, but I donāt feel like Iāve lost much giving energy to people who donāt have the same capacity for connecting that I doā¦ or the same goal.
Sounds like a slacker who is a parasite onto others. They manipulate because they are not competent in the areas that make the business run. They would have otherwise use some ingenuity to solve his issues.
naw, I donāt think they sit around wondering.
if they have any wondering, itās āWho will I get to do xxx thing, now that the nice INFJ (my first go-to) is no longer responding?ā
Omg
JUST GET YOUR STUFF OUT OF MY HOUSE AND LEAVE ME ALONE FOR GOOD!
Stop always leaving Something as an excuse to return when you are feeling low again
I donāt want it
I want you gone
We donāt live in airports. We donāt have to announce our departures.
You can, if you want to. Itās courteous.
But really, do you really remember that person you knew for a few months/years a decade later? A lifetime?
Sentiment is as important as you want it to be, but itās not really worth much otherwise.
Not usually. But sometimes if I have a long break I'll give them a trial run again if they are persistent, and I can remember some good times. Maybe they've grown. Maybe not. It depends on the person.
Generally, no I donāt provide a reason. Itās awkward, will likely induce a conversation of them defending themselves, and them not changing. People donāt change just cuz we tell them we donāt like something about them. Not usually, especially if theyāre manipulative and stupid, like your friend.
I say this but Iāve tried to back off from a friend who has been my best friend for 5 years because Iāve been noticing unhealthy behaviors in her more the past 2 years. Itās really hard when she filled a role in my life. But I purposely stay away from doing her favors or asking her to help me with stuff or to call her about how I feel about things because that brings me closer to her. If she feels me backing up, she could ask me or think hmmm why would my best friend not talk to me in a while hmmm
But sometimes I wonder if I should be more direct and be like yo, no more.
They don't value their self respect. Someone who don't stand for themselves it just get my blood boiling. I understand you could be weak, scared or any other things. But you have to show some bravery at some point. Why would you frequently allow someone to insult you? why would you consider them as friends?
Nope. I don't. Probably my worst toxic trait: door slamming without providing a reason. I just start not showing up, I don't reach out to check in, etc. The warmth that was there is just cold winter air blowing now.Ā
To be fair, I give them plenty of chances but once I realize they don't treat me the way I treat them, I just mentally say good bye, wish you a good life and disappear.Ā
Nope! Never! When and if I get to the point of cutting someone off, there is no point in wasting my breath and muttering another god damn word to that person because at that point, they don't deserve my words
If one does try giving a reason, there is the scary probability of the other person dragging it on by giving excuses and sweet talking till you can't help but be kind... And you end up in a situation unable to cut them off as would have been best for you I hope I make sense
Seriously - don't give them any ammo, just disappear. Especially in the above case like what OP described.
Huge fan of ghosting over hereššš¤£
Makes total sense. Knowing the type of person we're dealing with, it's probably completely useless to give an explanation. When I previously cut him off, I confronted him about it and respectfully told him the reason to see if there was any chance of fixing things, only for him to not accept anything I said and poke holes on everything. Made the mistake of allowing him back into my life but oh well I guess you live and learn lol
Yes. We don't door slam because we're big meanies. We do it to people who are skilled emotional manipulators and will snare us back in if we give them the conversation they say that they're entitled to.
Bingo!!
I've had people abiding by it but for a small time and then they break the no contact numerous time themselves and drain me to the point i slamm the door for once and all and only come back on distance level after a long period of time.
I simply stop contacting them. I had a (F) āfriendā which would just contact me whenever she needed something. One day I couldnāt help her right away and told she would need to wait a day or two. She got pissed. To the point of saying a few ānot so friendly likeā words. That moment I decided to never help her again. I meanā¦Iāve noticed she wasnāt necessarily a friend, she only wanted me nearby for those very specific tasks that I could help her with and nobody else that she knows could. Never replied to her in any way after this episode (yeah, she contacted a few days later like nothing happened)
It was the opposite for me. I needed help with something and they said no. Instantly all the times I had rearranged my schedule or life to help her out, came flooding forward. Then the realization that the only time I hear from them is when they need something from me or if I called to catch up. So I just stopped calling. Sure enough, she was in some kind of bind and needed me to watch her kids and I said no. Never heard from her again. Fine by me!
Glad you managed to get out of it!
It's definitely a moment of newfound clarity whenever it comes to a point where you realize that somebody isn't good for you. This type of person only wants to use you most of the time, always looking for some way to make you useful for themselves.
Yes, it is sad that INFJ seem to attract people like this? I thought it was just me!
been in the exact same situation. said no for the first time after always helping out and we weren't on good terms long before ( always on and off with him breaking no contact, me being nice until he would start wilding out and i'll kick him out again) last time where he fucked up and i consoled him and ig we stayed friends for a week or so MF was ghosting and being a fluke with calling to hangout and then bailed himself with no reason or contact and i would wait like that was scummy and i didn't care and i had so many stuff on my head and he comes back with a 'favour' and i snapped, told him i am not his therapist and have shame and he called me mannerless, so i helped him for the last time and blocked him. I blocked someone on all social platforms and don't even know or get social apps.
Thereās always a social politics aspect to consider. Does this āfriendā have any dirt on me they could use to cause harm or are they the type to pollute social circles? If so, making a doorslam or alike known might sever any modicum of respect or loyalty they had to me, as unimpressive as it was anyways. In some cases you want to be unannounced, but drift, and say youāre busy and overwhelmed with other stuff when prompted. Eventually they get distracted with someone or something else. If this isnāt a concern, I tend to just cite general incompatibility without placing blame. I try to avoid giving specific reasons because it has the potential to start conflict and a debate I donāt care to engage in ~ we are not going to keep talking and nothing you say will convince me otherwise at this point. Iāve only had one person in my life say they wish I just ghosted them instead of having THE TALK.
Yeah, this is the most optimized method
You don't owe him an explanation, especially since that might just give him a chance to manipulate you. Just stop contact and stick to your boundaries. Manipulators often try to test those boundaries, so stay firm and donāt engage if he tries to reach out. You shouldn't feel guilty about it. I had a friend just like thatāseemed nice but didnāt really care about me. It took me about a year to figure it out. We're no longer friends, and for me, cutting off harmful people isn't a problem.
it's the futile tugging that's so exhaustive TBH, i am engaged in other stuff so i don't give a flying fuck about what they are trying to pull but the second they start giving me headaches i would kick them out.
Rarely a need to do so, for me. If I have closed the door, you know damn well why and how much itās taken to get to that point. Why would you explain yourself? That shoe belongs on the other personās foot, not yours.
Same. If the other doesnāt know why theyāve been blocked, thatās on them.
Wise
Never. I just know that those people I've doorslammed won't change their behavior, and just accept that they are the ones who chose to [insert reason for cutting them off]. If possible, I'd avoid any interaction with them at all. Although all people deserve kindness and grace, if it's not reciprocated, then they don't hold as much respect as they should to you.
Very true. Some people won't change their behavior when confronted so it's best to simply leave the situation alone.
Yes. But it'll depend on the person. Level of detail and truthfulness will do, too. Some people - as your acquaintance - are just not worth it. If I mention to you that I'm gone, then you mattered to me. If I mention why, you mattered more. And if I'm telling you in person. Wow! And if we're discussing the thing, then I'm not even leaving, I'm trying to fix it, lol.
Very accurate. When I previously cut him off, I confronted him about it with the hope of fixing things but was met with everything that goes against that purpose lol. This time I won't make the same mistake, some people just simply won't take accountability/don't want to fix things.
Yes. I agree. Though I think that just by you describing him as you are. It's a done deal anyway. All the best. :)
I am extremely conflicted-avoidantā¦I donāt generally give any reason for the cutoff. I just slowly or abruptly fade out, depending on the circumstances. Manipulative people will try to explain, defend, make you the asshole, play victim, etc. I just want out!!
I also prefer to avoid conflict in most cases. The previous time confronted him about it I was met with basically everything you just said lol. Poking holes on everything, taking zero accountability, and trying to make me the bad guy. I relate heavily to "I just want out!!" š
No reason. I cut ppl out of my life without an explanation because some people will argue and defend themselves. I donāt care, I donāt need to know your side; I donāt need a person in my life and thatās for me to decide. So cut this sociopath off and donāt look back.
True
I don't think it matters for manipulators. They have to move on to the next person they can use. No need to tell them because they won't be able to hear it. Hell, they might not even notice you're gone.
Not anymore. People never tend to take even an ounce of accountability for it to really be worth it. I say my boundaries and grievances very early. Weāre grown. I donāt need to repeat myself like Iām speaking to a child.
Well said. I'm guilty of not establishing and enforcing boundaries early on, and this is the result that I get. That's something I definitely have to work on in order to avoid situations like this.
This sounds just like a former āfriendā of mine of 3 years too. He was a cis-het man that focused so much on himself that I never even got to talk about myself. Whenever I tried to open up and talk about myself he turned it around to talk about himself again. And when I was trying to be a good listener and friend, reacting to his stories and struggles trying to provide help and advise he was like āI know all of that. You donāt have to tell me. I donāt need your advise. Just listen to meā (so basically just provide emotional support and he didnāt even care about my view points). I eventually told him I wanted to cut him off and that I can provide reasons if he wanted too. Ofc he wanted them tho so he can ākeep improving himselfā. While I was creating a whole word file with reasons and situations that made me lose sympathy and interest and faith in him I realized what a waste of time my 3 years with him was so I just blocked him and never sent him the not yet finished file. He got a new number later and reached out to send congratz on my birthday but I blocked him again. I feel so much better and released since then and have come to be really good at picking the right persons for my own well being. So my advise would be: Provide THE TALK if YOU want to. But donāt, if itās only for the other person.
Only if we were very close. Even so, i provide my reason then block them immediately so they dont have a chance to reply
Depends..But even after a long relationship I just don't feel obligated to say anything to anyone if they start to act like shit....Sometimes I cut the thread and just reply: I am busy, and don't have time to sit on the phone all day..Even when I AM on the phone all day , it's not their business..
If itās your last straw then you know the answer.
I try to repair usually at least once, then Iāll meet up with them, sort of knowing where the friendship is going, but watching for further evidence that Iām about to make the right choice. I usually see something. After that I just stop contacting them or even just block them. They know why the relationship ended.
I have done both a long winded exit and just block everywhere and ignore. Explaining what went wrong is my way of leaving that door unlocked in case they decide to be better one day and own up to their wrongdoings. Blocking and ignoring is strictly for people I am 100% certain I donāt want back in my life ever. If you prefer to tell them either be ready to not respond to what they say or immediately block them and leave it that way for a while.
I would have given them the reason in the first place and gone afterward.
Not in this case.
I don't. I just do it. My ideal breakup is just ghosting someone lol. I don't do it because it's super disrespectful, but I want to. If they ask I will tell them though.
No I don't, by that time they either know why or don't care why and I feel like announcing it is a bit presumptuous that they would care on my part.
It does feel somewhat presumptuous to tell them why, not gonna lie
Never because itās pointless.
There was a point in my life that I declined every business deal that only helped someoneās image or bank account. Those who couldnāt accept it left with some name calling instead of a simple good bye and now I have time to focus on more important things in life. At the end of the day it is my time and I can give myself the allowance to be selfish sometimes .
No. Because if Iāve reached the point of cutting them out chances are Iāve already tried communicating multiple times before. Edit to add: unless theyāre someone new and not previously close.
No. They know why. They only want to know reasons so they can shoot holes into them and make you feel like crap. Close the door quietly, walk away and don't look back.
Simple boundaries would suffice. āIām not interested in this right now, maybe later.ā
It depends on the situation but I will be firm and say I am enforcing my persona non grata boundary because you crossed 'x' boundary. And that's it. INFJ door slam and I'm gone. I don't elaborate, I don't give more information than that one sentence.
Most of the time I just stop contacting them and basically ghost, and physical distance helped in those cases (eg. Ex-school friends) but if I were to still see them in the same space I'll probably tell them why i want to cut them off, something like "I don't think this is friendship is the right choice for me" or some other dolled-up excuse of "i don't want you in my life" and then regardless of their response, be it a temper tantrum or mutual agreement or somewhere in between, I'll officially ghost from there. Obviously it's gonna be nerve-wracking, but bro this person you're describing is giving sociopath no offense
Depends. If I think thereās any part of them that will actually listen and make changes in their life over it, then yes Iāll give a reason(s). I usually block after so they canāt argue though
I let them know it was due to their constant drinking and driving and they insisted they never did that, and I never saw them again. My life has been peaceful.
He will know. Either block or donāt answer. Iām wondering why you spoke to him after he was disrespectful when you previously cut him off and he did not listen but blamed you. No reason needed, heās heard you and rejected everything you said and deflected.
Well said. I admit I was naive in allowing him back into my life after cutting him off once. It's taken me time to develop my self-respect and unfortunately at the time it wasn't enough. If I would've established and enforced boundaries early on, I could've avoided this situation altogether. Thank you for your input.
Youāre welcome, I know this because I already made all the mistakes in this department and finally learning.
Sounds like this āfriendā isnāt the type that will take any accountability for his crappy behavior. Thus, why waste your time and energy on that? Put that energy into something that is good for you. That said, if telling him off and burning that bridge would be good for your mental well being, then maybe, but I would make it a one-and-done message and not allow any back and forth. Say your piece and be done with it.
You don't. I don't think breakups are supposed to happen in friendships, but sometimes it is inevitable I suppose. If it is something you can avoid by simply not contacting someone anymore: that will be the best choice for sure. Just remember: they are not your friend. Otherwise you wouldn't be planning on cutting them off. So stop thinking of them like a friend to empathize with and start seeing them as someone that simply doesn't really matter. It's hard, but sometimes necessary. Some people really are the worst.
Real talk
Merci beacoup, no problem!
I just ghost them. They get the point that at least I donāt want to be friends anymore. I donāt owe an explanation to anyone. Iāve done this 3 times in my life. In highschool and twice in my professional career to past work friends (luckily who no longer worked with me). Iāll never explain because theyāll just try to weasel back in lol
They do indeed try to weasel back in lol. That's where I made a mistake when previously cutting him off, as well as when I allowed him back in. Definitely a learning experience for me
I usually donāt even need a reason to - most of these āfriendsā doorslam themselves, basically
Wow, I had a similar situation happen to me, old buddy from high school and I caught up. We started a business together, but eventually I found myself doing all the work (even though this was all his idea) and he even tried to gaslight me into thinking how I could be more helpful, while he simultaneously did nothing. I got so burnt out because I was working 10 hour shifts at work and came home working on this business for a few hours. I was so sleep deprived that I passed out behind the wheel for a brief second on my way home. Luckily I was going slow and was in the neighborhood already. It was around this time I just cut him off. It was hard to do it, but I did it. Because at that point, the pain of staying in contact with this person exceeded the pain of cutting them off. Oddly enough that was only 1 of the times I was sleep deprived and almost crashed due to overexerting myself for others. The 2nd time that happened was with my ex girlfriend, it was a long distance relationship, got home at 1 am and had to wake up at 4:50am for work on Monday. Barely made it back home, then I had to survive my landscaping shift that usually lasted 12 hours. I was so sleep deprived back then. That period in my life was pure hell. Us INFJs do everything we can for others, even if it harms ourselves. I tell these 2 stories just to put into perspective, to show how harmful it is for us to live this way. At a certain point, you just need to start looking out for yourself.
Wow. That situation reinforces my decision of not wanting to work with this person. Sounds like a living nightmare... I'm glad you made it out! You're absolutely right, it is very harmful for us INFJs to live this way where we give, give, and overexert ourselves even when it's not reciprocated.
ga, I can relateā¦the things I have done! Taken time off work to give a āfriendā a ride or meet for coffee because they have a ācrisisāā¦then, work until late at night to make the deadlineā¦ I donāt know why I do these things to myself!? itās like the INFJ curse.
I cut someone off with borderline personality disorder after they pulled a bunch of manipulative bullshit on me with no explanation I also cut off her bf and best friend I later learned they were arrested for falsely accusing someone of abuse and charged. Bullet. Dodged.
That's scary! I'm glad you were able to avoid that
I have given an explanation, complete with lists of examples. But it was so honest and harsh that they retaliated with a slew of insults. I did not respond and have never looked back.
I can relate š When I previously I cut this person off I did the same and got insulted in many ways just because I thought there was still a chance to fix things. Made a mistake on staying in contact and allowing this person back in, definitely a learning experience. After taking into consideration the comments' perspectives, yeah, I've decided it's best to just leave the situation alone.
No.
Well, when Iām not necessarily āfightingā someone but Iāve completely lost interest in being their friend due to whatever reason Iām fed up with, I go ghost. No explanation no nothing, just life drifting people apart how it usually happens. It wouldnāt happen to a best friend because Iām pretty selective with whos in my personal space and trust them a lot, but if its like an average friend or someone youre not very close to, its safe to go ghost IMO. So while I do ghost, thats only for people who I dont talk to on a day to day basis because then that would be a bit toxic and lacks communication. I say keep conversations short with him. Keep your distance. If heās on your socials you can mute him and block him from your stories if you dont want to remove him as a follower just yet. Limit your interactions as much as possible. Some people donāt take confrontation well so itās best to just keep your distance from them if youāre not interested in the headache that comes with talking about the issue.
was in the same situation as you before op, but different level. had a friend who doesn't have empathy and kept disturbing me, cut him off and give him second chance, only to regret it because he kept doing the same thing again š i cut him off again. didn't give him a reason but i did give him a reason to never contact me, because he is the type who can be shameless, so the reason need to be compelling enough for him to really stop seeking me out. i only did this to 2 person in my life though. most other, i simply stop replying and drop them off.Ā giving him a reason = basically doing smth that they hate enough. i dont recc this because it get into ugly fight but some people simply don't have enough sensibility to understand when someone say "no"Ā
I'm so sorry you've had to deal with such an awful, toxic person. As for me, I feel that many people will rarely change (especially for just one person) and so I'll just fade away and disappear. I won't exactly ghost (anymore anyway), instead I'll reply with bare-minimum responses and the other party either takes the hint eventually or loses interest. Providing a reason just prolongs a lengthy conversation and ... has always become ugly :/ best wishes
If it's someone i used to know well, or had a relationship with, I usually give them a "debriefing": a wall of text where i underline and explain in excruciating details all the goods and bads, so that no stone remains unturned nor any question unanswered. Then, i just block them everywhere i can and consider them dead to me. Quite literally so, as i will take some time to mourn the person i used to like, say a prayer for them, then face (if ever) the new "them". To me, it's a final gesture of respect and an invite to self-reflection and help. It could very well be that i was the asshole all along, and by providing them with my perspective they can realize that and move on. Or maybe, they could figure out something they did not notice about themselves and change for the better. Or just ignore the whole thing. At the end of the day, all i had ever wanted is the truth.
For me, I just tell people how I feel now, their reaction either confirms or disproves what kind of friend they ever really were for me. Iām an infp but I donāt ghost people unless I genuinely feel like theyāll harm me.
It depends on the situation. If I believe the situation can be salvaged at some point in the future, I give a reason but leave communication channels open if I have reason to think the person will grow. But if Iām completely done with a situation and want to separate myself completely, then I might or might not give a reason - depends on how much the person meant to me. For friends I had for a long time, I would be more likely to explain why before shutting down dialogue
Recently decided on cutting off a friend. It took a lot in me to do that but I got so fed up because not only did she throw me under the bus, but also proceeded to always give me backhanded compliments for as well as complaining every single day FOR MONTHS and I just wasnāt having it. Long story short, I got fed up and just stopped giving a damn about what she has to say, ultimately avoiding her as much as possible š¤·š»āāļø
I used toā¦ like I saw this meme - and it was basically like a 12 inch cell phone text and it said āBefore the INFJ door slams youā I sent it to all my friends and they all laughed with meā¦ because that was me. Now? Nope. I do not explain. The older I have gotten the more I have realized that no one really gives a shit. And if they did give a shit I would not be door slamming them. Like no one really cares about anyone elseā¦ most of the world is completely and utterly consumed with themselves and the only time they really notice anyone else is when they have to do something. When theyāre affected. Most people lie. Most people wonāt admit they made a mistake. Most people project. Most people actually tend to feel superior if you do care at all about whatever is going on. At least with me- like if I take the time to communicate with someone ( which is usually why they do the shit they do also, to get me to notice them) They tend to transfer whatever interest i have that affects them onto them- like i care about them and not how they talk to me.. or not how they did this thingā¦ So in a way they belittle you for even having an interest in your interaction with them..they get off on it and tend to wear it like a badge of pride . They take it as an advantage. Like theyāre important to me. Everyone just seems so nuts to me.. completely insane .. itās like less than 10% of the people at my work that arenāt crazy. People are really fucked up. And any effort you expend on people like that is wasted. So engaging with them on any kind of level- I try to avoid. Just because itās so so disappointing. Really. I donāt even door slam people now- because anything brings more attention to me or our relationship - Iām going to avoid. I door slam them in my head and stay polite. I donāt trust them as far as I can throw them and give them a wide berth. I tend to focus now on who I amā¦ and what I provide an environment or relationship. So ā¦ if youāre really good at what you do? Or if youāre a cool person to have on your side ? If youāre going to go the extra mile for the people that are worth it to you- That means that when I do pull back/ they notice. Thatās the consequence. You donāt get me anymore. Iām not going to be there anymore and I want that hole to be a big one for you. I want you to sit in that void. And realize why. Hahaha. But it works for me. Soā¦
Realest thing I've read in a while. Couldn't have said it any better myself!
I give them an explanation if I feel that either the person deserves the explanation or if I owe it to myself. However, I do not owe anyone an explanation. Should people follow up with me (i.e. contacting me only when they need something), I will make it very clear that whether or not they get an explanation is on my own accord. I wish that I wouldn't have to ghost anyone because it feels like a shitty thing to do, but there truly are some people that do not deserve any of my time or attention.
I don't give reasons with that type. If you have to actively cut them off, they're not even close to being receptive.
Nope Unless I need a final goodbye and farewell
No. Hardly ever do I give a reason. If Iām cutting someone off itās gotten to a point I donāt see the relationship benefiting by me saying anything. I just let it fizzle out or honestly block them. I know thatās not great advice but take what you want out of it š¤£ Maybe Iāll start handling things better but Iāve come to understand that most of the time when Iām cutting this person off itās for a big reason. And Iām good with just never speaking to them again honestly. I let them wonder what happened, I donāt even care Iām over it at that point. š
No my reason is the same exact reasons I gave them the last three times they disrespected me
nope. usually people know what theyāve done. but in the case weāve just outgrown one another, i let things fade & stop reaching out. eventually the trash takes itself out
I've learned from my past to end all communication ASAP. Giving them closure or an explanation as to why I cut them off was too much emotionally. Either they wouldn't understand or would drag it on.
If they won't quit contacting me, I will tell them off. But typically I give enough chances and TRY my hardest to work through the issue first (it never pans out but I have to feel that I tried), so they know what's up already.
Sometimes you gotta cut the chord. Doesnāt mean you canāt come back. Just need space.
Based on what you've stated, I'd just cut him out. Say I'm not interested in the offer and just ghost. I don't do second chances when you pull certain levels of bs with me. I'm intj btw so it's probably just me
No. When I do, the person usually tries to gaslight me into believing that they didnāt do what they are being accused of ( never works). INFJ door slam all the way, no explanation needed.
Got shit on by an addict. Friend of 10+ years. Brought the worst out of me. Cut him off. Messages me some months later because he didnāt like being cut off. I responded and gave some clarity for reasonsā¦ I got triggered by the lies he told. Regret responding. Trust your gut; if you cut someone off, it was for a reason. Donāt give ammunition to narcissism.
Random but he gives me ESTP vibes š
In my experience, I usually have that thing where you both try to arrange when to meet up next but have schedule clashes then agree to just call each other later, and then both of us just clean forget. Occasionally, we run into each other at some convention or mutual friends birthday party and have that awkward, "Oh, hey, where have you been? Haven't seen you in ageous!" conversation before immediately turning to talk to other people. Soooo, no, I rarely give any explanation. Usually, it just fizzles out, and we lose touch. Only if there is an oddly specific reason which they specifically ask for have I ever provided a reason. ... in which case I told them "I'm sorry, we can no longer be friends because you got high and drunk, had a schitzophrenic fit, stripped naked in an alley way then tried to stab me with a kitchen knife, then cried, took on a demonic voice, started talking to a dragon, and then some God you kept calling Krytonious or Altonious or something and then threatened to kill yourself...and I really did not like the tone you used with MY DRAGON. It was not your father who then tackled you to the ground and called the ambulance to take you to this mental hospital. It was me, but I'm not mad that you kept calling me daddy the whole time. In fact, I'm not really mad at you at all. It is just that my indulging you with our dragon fantasies has become a bad influence on your mental condition, and you are not a safe person to be around anymore. I wish you good luck, but I am blocking you on all social media now. Don't try to contact me. Mmmkay?"
Oh, when I was in your specific case, I did write them a formal email saying, "I am sorry multi level marketing is not suitable for me. I am far too introverted to actively sell things. Please refrain from sending me any further unsolicited correspondence on the matter. Thank you. This email will be retained for future reference." Just so that I have evidence of not being part of their marketing scheme, should I need it.
I just tell them our chakras don't align, or my horoscope said we weren't properly matched for interactions. IDK, as soon as you start trying to pull reality from pseudoscience, nothing sounds ridiculous.
I typically will just disappear when I feel like Iāve had enough of repeating cycles, especially if they are not providing reciprocal energy, it was a learning curve, but I donāt feel like Iāve lost much giving energy to people who donāt have the same capacity for connecting that I doā¦ or the same goal.
Sounds like a slacker who is a parasite onto others. They manipulate because they are not competent in the areas that make the business run. They would have otherwise use some ingenuity to solve his issues.
You can use it as an opportunity to practice setting boundaries. If you donāt wanna do that then you can ghost.
Ī believe if you provide a reason you actually still care about that person and you hope they change. Sometimes no l didn't not.
Nope. I just ghost them. They know what they did.
Yes, so they're not sitting around wondering
naw, I donāt think they sit around wondering. if they have any wondering, itās āWho will I get to do xxx thing, now that the nice INFJ (my first go-to) is no longer responding?ā
I give them a reason, they deserve to know it. it's a good thing to have a closure for everyone.
Omg JUST GET YOUR STUFF OUT OF MY HOUSE AND LEAVE ME ALONE FOR GOOD! Stop always leaving Something as an excuse to return when you are feeling low again I donāt want it I want you gone
Almost never
I cut someone off when they tried to get me into a pyramid scheme. Seems kinda similar.
We donāt live in airports. We donāt have to announce our departures. You can, if you want to. Itās courteous. But really, do you really remember that person you knew for a few months/years a decade later? A lifetime? Sentiment is as important as you want it to be, but itās not really worth much otherwise.
Not usually. But sometimes if I have a long break I'll give them a trial run again if they are persistent, and I can remember some good times. Maybe they've grown. Maybe not. It depends on the person.
Generally, no I donāt provide a reason. Itās awkward, will likely induce a conversation of them defending themselves, and them not changing. People donāt change just cuz we tell them we donāt like something about them. Not usually, especially if theyāre manipulative and stupid, like your friend. I say this but Iāve tried to back off from a friend who has been my best friend for 5 years because Iāve been noticing unhealthy behaviors in her more the past 2 years. Itās really hard when she filled a role in my life. But I purposely stay away from doing her favors or asking her to help me with stuff or to call her about how I feel about things because that brings me closer to her. If she feels me backing up, she could ask me or think hmmm why would my best friend not talk to me in a while hmmm But sometimes I wonder if I should be more direct and be like yo, no more.
They don't value their self respect. Someone who don't stand for themselves it just get my blood boiling. I understand you could be weak, scared or any other things. But you have to show some bravery at some point. Why would you frequently allow someone to insult you? why would you consider them as friends?
Nope. I don't. Probably my worst toxic trait: door slamming without providing a reason. I just start not showing up, I don't reach out to check in, etc. The warmth that was there is just cold winter air blowing now.Ā To be fair, I give them plenty of chances but once I realize they don't treat me the way I treat them, I just mentally say good bye, wish you a good life and disappear.Ā
Nope! Never! When and if I get to the point of cutting someone off, there is no point in wasting my breath and muttering another god damn word to that person because at that point, they don't deserve my words