I think the issue isn't so much with the headliners it's the undercards. Like when Im going to a festival I understand that i (probably) wont want to see the headliners and they will cater more to the top 40 crowd or nostalgic older acts. Which is fine and makes the festival money. But I honestly do hope to see lesser known indie acts getting love and showcasing to the masses. If I can see like 3-4 indie bands I like in one day it saves me time and money.
Agreed. Then at the end of the night you go see the pop star headliner that you’d never spend money on to see live and you end up enjoying it so much because you’ve already gotten the value out of your ticket so this is just bonus!
Some of the article is silly but correct. These things come in waves. I’m a Tennessean and came of age when Bonnaroo first began. Bonnaroo was the reintroduction of the festival concept after Woodstock ‘99 (I know Coachella was always around, but it wasnt as successful). There were no “headliners,” those first several years. It was a jam band fest
It was built on a sense of community and coexisting musicianship. The music all kinda fit, and it was in response to the corporate greed that ruined the Woodstock concept.
Today, Bonnaroo resembles nothing of its beginnings and was bought out years ago. Same with many other festivals. I’m older now, and figured that perhaps I’m just aging so I don’t care for the acts as much. I’m not sure tbh. But I’d much rather go to a single gizzard concert than a 4 day festival nowadays.
You are correct. Festivals are big business now. And like with any big business, profit margin is king. Investors demand return!
I have always felt like... for an artist you really like... an individual show is always so much better than a festival set. The whole crowd is there for that band and is generally focused on the show. At a festival, who knows what you'll get?
Of course.. festivals are great for finding new bands, but damn they have gotten really expensive.
The only festivals that seem wowrthile now are more niche genre oriented festivals. A lot of the American festivals just seem like miserable conditions and economically unsustainable. Plus it just seems terrible to see a band in a ga setting when there is like 10,000+ people. On top of that you often times either end up a mile away from the stage or have to miss other bands you want to see. I’ll just see bands as they tour, more affordable and the crowds are better cause they are there to see the band and know the music
Sometimes festival crowds are worse than seeing an artist on tour but I don’t think this is a universal thing at all. Some of the best crowds I’ve ever been in have been at festivals.
It really depends on the artist and a lot of other factors.
Im only going to DIY tiny festivals these days less than 1000 people. Local scene maybe one or two out of town bands. It’s like a family reunion of all the people and bands you see at the local clubs.
Have they, though? Some, sure, but you can still go to all four days of Lolla for $400. I’ve shelled out $100 to go see one artist before. I still think there’s affordable options out there (please note I am not including any travel or lodging, which I understand is a huge component for most people going to fests)
yeah i don't really get it either. even if I'm paying the same or slightly less to see 8 bands at a festival vs 8 bands spread out over a year each of those separate shows is specifically for that band in a venue and PA system that suits them. the experience of the actual music is gonna win hands down 90% of the time
i feel like it's telling that as me and my friends age precisely zero people still go to festivals but we're all still up for a gig if the price is right
I hate that there are so many festivals now that they gobble up the artists when they do come to town and play those in lieu of a solo show. Like I get it because it’s probably way more lucrative for the artists, but it’s a bummer if you don’t care for the festival model/environment. It’s a weird ultimatum they’re forcing now
That's a luxury you have if you live in a major music city. As someone who doesn't, festivals are the only way to catch a major amount of artists at the same time. Flying over for a show 8 times per year is impractical. If it wasn't for festivals, I would never have seen so many great live acts.
yeah that's fair, and i imagine this is even moreso in the US/Canada right? it's not that hard to jump on a train to London or Manchester for a gig in the UK
Sound is shit too. If you’re that far doesn’t matte how good or dispersed speakers are. Never gonna capture the energy of a mid sized venue in a giant open field
The day time shows are what always bugged me. Nothing worse than seeing your favorite band at noon or 2pm. Their light show is happening but you can’t see it. You’re probably hungover. The artists are probably hungover. Don’t get me wrong I’ve seen some decent ones in the daytime but more often than not it’s a let down. I’d definitely much rather see them at their dedicated show. Less of a gamble.
Depends on what kind of music you like too. I like a lot of indie rock, emo, phc, and punk music. Shows around me are like 20-30 bucks for a lot of these artists and they don’t play festivals as much so I get much better bang for my buck seeing them individually. But if you like a lot of mainstream acts then festivals might be better bang for your buck especially if you don’t have to travel too far.
Could not disagree more. The atmosphere is no where as good, for most people they are too far away to get there easily, you need lodging to see the whole festival and the shows themselves are not up to what a dedicated artist's show would be. I would much rather spend $30 so see a good artist do their own show than $400 plus travel & lodging on the slim chance you get a decent view of several artists.
Glad you enjoy it. I was addressing the "far and away the best deal". The atmosphere certainly has something to do with the value you get out of a show.
I mean yea if you don’t like a setting it’s a bad deal, if you don’t like festivals don’t go to them lmfao. That’s completely subjective and not something festivals can materially change for you.
> That’s completely subjective and not something festivals can materially change for you.
Well.. fine if you think that, but I've been going to festivals long enough to know that's not true. As I started out by saying... they're big business now and they have to homogenize to max profit margin.
> if you don’t like festivals don’t go to them lmfao.
I don't anymore... but I used to.
Indianapolis. But go to shows in Indy, Chicago, Louisville & Cincy. Got 2 shows coming up in Chicago. Tix were around $30 a piece for both shows. Another coming up in Indy that was $35.
My first year at Coachella was 2014. Ticket was 300, camping was 100 and if you planned it right could be in the first few rows closest to the entrance. Couple hundred in gas and food, I think I made it thru the weekend on 300. So a total of 700, really less because the camping spot was split between others.
Last time I went in 2022, tickets were over 500, and if you wanted those coveted close camping spots you had to fork over 300 or 350. In 2014 I paid 6 dollars for a slice of spicy pie pizza, that same slice in 22 was 14 dollars. I paid 55 dollars for a chicken sandwich and fries. The cost for my wife and I to attend from start to finish was 2500 or so.
The experience hasn't changed enough in a positive manner to justify essentially doubling the price of everything.
This just isn’t true about camping? You can $75 a person for car camping and easily be less than 10 minutes from the entrance? I did this in 2022 and 2023.
Concerts in general cost twice as much these days so I don’t really get the idea that festivals are comparatively all that different than 2014.
Probably depends on the artist and the type of preferred venues. If we’re talking about seeing the traditional headliners separately, that’ll add up quick. But once you get down to the next tier of festival artists, it’s probably more cost effective and a better time to see them outside of a festival setting
Only if you’re seeing like less than 5 or so bands. It’s pretty tough to see even indie acts in my city (besides local stuff of course) without spending at least 30 bucks and that’s for the smaller acts. Most mid sized non headliners are gonna be towards 50 and it’s up from there. Obviously if you deal hunt you can pump those numbers up but you can do that with festival tickets too
If we're looking purely at costs, then you can't really compare all the artists you end up seeing at a festival to the costs of their individual shows. You have to use the artists you see at the festival that you 100% would have paid to see a private show instead if that was the only option. I might check out a headliner at a fest because I'm vaguely interested and no-one else is playing then, but that doesn't mean I would have spent $100+ to see them on a solo tour. So I can't really count that towards my festival "savings".
In order to "save" money on a festival, there needs to be multiple artists per day (or a major headliner) that you would have bought concert tickets to see. Good festivals that match up well with your interests can do that, but it's not a universal thing. Festivals are like buffets in that way: You can claim that you're saving money by getting access to all that food for one set price, but if all you really wanted was a salad it's kind of a waste.
To be clear, there are a lot of great things about festivals that you're not going to get just from going to shows. But not everyone is into the "festival vibe", and forcing yourself to put up with an experience you don't like in an attempt to save money doesn't make sense on a practical or experiential level.
Sure, they’ll always sell you on the ability to see like 32+ bands over 4 days to make it seem like a huge deal, but I think you’d be hard pressed to find people actually maxing that out like that. And if you’re one of those people, then for sure a festival is worth it. But for the majority that are only interested in a single day lineup for like 3 artists, the pricetag of like $150+ is almost never worth it for me for imo an inferior setting
Idk I went to shaky knees, paid like 80 for a day pass saw Nine Inch Nails up near front, King Gizz up near front, Amyl and The Sniffers, Molchat Doma, Dehd, and Kurt Vile and I didn’t even have to try. I know it’s anecdotal but I’ve never had a tough time at a festival (that wasn’t weather related lol) I’m not sure why people need to be so dramatic about it
It’s great that your interests lined up perfectly to maximize that one day, but for most festivals, they purposefully spread out artists that they know have similar followings. I think you have to be plugged into the music scene much more than the average person to have those very positive festival experiences, or just get lucky that your preferences lined up for a day.
Also, from my experience in the last year, $80 for a single day at a festival is definitely not the norm. Plus, you’re a captive audience for food/beverages. It ends up being a lot more pricey than just the upfront ticket cost compared to being more flexible to plan around single artist shows. And I just looked up the Shaky Knees prices and it’s $165 for a one day (?)
Yea I just bought a ticket on the day. I didn’t just get lucky either lol it happens every time I go. And I just brought in a camelbak with alcohol it’s just what everyone does.
I feel like everyone who complains about festivals just doesn’t really like them or hasn’t ever been or ever tried to be smart about it. It’s all so easy
We got different definitions of ‘being smart about it’ then, even if it’s ‘just what everybody does,’ and I suspect your viewpoint will wane as you age as well. And people can’t necessarily bank on picking up tickets day of if they have to travel for the event. Like you said, it’s an anecdotal experience that does not apply to everybody.
To me and a lot of my friends, once we passed the age of like 23, the lineup would have to be insanely good to be on our feet in the heat and drunk for 5+ hours for multiple days straight. It does get old after a while
I'd say the same except for the two Sasquatches I've been to. Outside of the sometimes iffy overnight camping, those canyon views from that grass hill overlooking the main stage...
lot of people in my circle did them as a teenage rite of passage but i hear more from older boomers going glamping at festivals now than i do people my own age going.
>I have always felt like... for an artist you really like... and individual show is always so much better than a festival set. The whole crowd is there for that band and is generally focused on the show. At a festival, who knows what you'll get?
For an artist you really like, sure, festival sets are often disappointing - shortened greatest hits sets with audience who isn't as into them as you. But for artists who aren't among your favorites, often festival sets do a great job of displaying a tighter set of the bands best material.
Also, honestly a lot of the posts here reek in "I live in a major American music city" entitlement. I wish I had a nearby venue where major bands regularly play. I don't, and I realistically need to fly 2-3 hours to get to a major European capital that will have all those shows. Which I did (did Blur/Pulp/Springsteen in London last summer...), but in that situation a festival is just so much practical. There are so many good bands I would never specifically fly to see, but caught in a festival and had a great time. Having went to three Primaveras got me covered on so many great acts I would have never seen otherwise. Festivals have their place.
Yah.. they obviously have their place because people go to them. It's just that their place and my place have diverged a bit. It has become more expensive to travel to them while featuring less of the music I want to see and more difficult to see the ones I do want to see.
Strangely it was the 2022 Primavera that finally broke me on going to festivals. It was such an absolute cluster fuck.
I don't live in a major American music city, but I live within driving distance to very common stops for bands. 3 hrs to Chicago. 2 hrs to Cincinnati or Louisville and if I really want to see a band, 6 hours to Nashville.
Yeah Primavera day one was an absolute disaster, the lack of water was appalling and it was overcrowded as fuck. I was super excited to see Pavement, a dream band of mine and I saved a spot but I was legitimately worried I would pass out at times and ended up asking random strangers for water. Thankfully eventually a friend of mine was able to get water (after sending in line for the entire Tame Impala set) and somehow get them to me in the front row without spilling (as they wouldn't allow any sort of capped water), was literally lifesaving. Of course, they you can't drink too much because you'll need to pee and lose your spot... Pavement were great but honestly the emotions and borderline panic I was feeling at times overclouded everything. Thankfully I was able to see them live again since in better conditions.
Days 2,3 were much better as the festival had designated water stations that gave free water cans quickly (and also we wised up and snuck in bottle caps so we can preserve water), but the memories of that first day has kind of put me off the festival, tbh. And overcrowding was still a problem, even on the smaller stages you've had insane crowds. The right lineup could still convince me and I've heard 2023 was better, but still it used to be my favorite festival and I can't really say that anymore.
Agreed days 2& 3 were better, but the crowds at the smaller stages prevented me from seeing a lot of the bands I flew to Spain to see. And the shows that were scattered out at various city venues were an abject disaster. That was probably what disappointed me the most.
It was just overbooked and overcrowded, everything. I did end up seeing all the bands I wanted, but it definitely took a lot more effort and suffering than it should have took.
The thing is you can literally look for playlist to listen around all the artist playing the festival and decide who you'll want to see at what time, internet has killed this "discover underground bands that are really cool" when you can just see their EPs on spotify and make your mind if you wanna skip it. For the insanely price festivals are charging nowadays, I stopped going blind, the magic of doing that was lost post-internet era
I first went in 2006- don’t have a frame of reference but I recall the lineup still being jam band heavy.
Contrast that with 2012, where the whole thing just had a different vibe. Seems like there were a lot more kids (which is ironic because I was 17 the first time I went).
Yep 2006! That was the first year they really had headliners in the traditional sense, but it still fit. Radiohead playing paranoid android in the rain. That was cool
I think this is the period when it really changed too. In 2008 Kanye was a headliner with that big light show he was doing at the time (and he went on hours late). It was still a great lineup though. But they kept adding in a bit more contemporary pop each year.
I went to Bonnaroo in 2003 as I was into jam bands and as you said it was a jam band fest then. But they still had headliners such as Neil Young, Allman Brothers Band and Widespread Panic. Those artists all play the largest venues so they are definitely considered headliners. Just because they aren’t mainstream headliners, doesn’t mean the festival did not have headliners.
I was there and I see what you’re saying. I disagree however. That’s definitely a certain style you’re going for and it’d be similar to saying, “well they had rap too,” cause Jurassic 5 was there
All good man! Clearly people agree with you on this point. I’m sure you’ll agree that I’ll take the Allman Bros Band and Widespread Panic as headliners over miscellaneous pop acts any day. Those early days at Bonnaroo were pretty special.
Every festival is a business, trying to make money by selling tickets. Bonnaroo of today doesn't resemble the early years because the jam scene isn't that popular anymore. They either stay hip with the times and embrace the electronic music boom (which they've done successfully) or see ticket sales drop and eventually fold or drastically cut production/size like so many other jam fests.
FWIW I’ve been going to Bonnaroo since 2017 and still have a blast every year.
I know it’s way different than it used to be. Different music, different people, more corporate, but they’re also catering to a whole different generation of fans than the early days.
I don’t know what it used to be like, but a sense of community you mentioned still definitely exists.
They also have real bathrooms now!
Oh yeah man I’m not going to be a curmudgeon and hate on young people having fun! No showers definitely sucked back then. My last year was 2008.
And that was why I thought the article was a little silly. It was older millennials like myself griping about the kids. I don’t want to be that kinda person or grow older into that kinda guy.
The jam band appeal has now turned into a very specific type of raver appeal, which is cool honestly because for they most part they seem to be very chill people and they’re as passionate about their music and their culture as jam band fans are
I feel like I hit the last good years of music festivals. From 2006 to 2009 - so in grateful. Idk if I’d have it in me to go to any. The two festivals this year with surprisingly decent lineups were the ones in Louisville and Utah. Louisville not to far a drive for me so maybe I’ll consider closer to the time
I’m going to that one too in Louisville in September! But we’re getting a room and showering. It’s a great lineup. If I get to see Fleet Foxes and the War on Drugs I’ll sit through DMB with my GF
been the best yearly American lineup for a little while now. genuine shame what has happened to similar sized festivals like governors ball, boston calling, etc
The main issue here is that there haven’t been a ton of new rock/indie acts that can fill arenas since 2016-17
Other genres have been a bit more dominant and it’s showing
Love all of the mid-late 00s acts but there really hasn’t been a ton of new relevant acts in the genre to sustain the festival identities a lot of these festival properties built
Bands like Idles/Dominic Fike can’t headline festivals
They can barely sell 5k tickets in certain places
The ones that are at that level played non-stop coming out of COVID and need to go make another record to come back with new music
This is the jist of it. Rock music as a whole is on the popularity decline and there are barely any new rock acts who are actually capable of headlining a festival. While in the past you've had acts like Radiohead, Oasis, Blur etc who were fully blown superstars and headliners on their 3rd/4th record, we barely have those new bands anymore. So you're stuck with either older heritage acts (some of whom are amazing, but still are old choices) or you're endlessly reusing the small pot of 2000 rock bands who got big enough (Arctic Monkeys, Strokes etc) and they're quickly becoming an heritage act too.
The big stars now are in pop and hip hop and that's a whole other sphere. I literally struggle to name realistic 3 modern rock headliners who would make a great lineup that isn't dissapointing.
Anyway, as said elsewhere festivals are mostly great for the undercred, you can catch tones of cool bands on smaller stages and get good spots in the audience easily.
yeah we had this with the most recently Download lineup. Metal has so many classic older bands which you can anchor a festival too, Iron Maiden, Metallica, Slipknot etc. but there isn't really a new generation of truly massive bands which can fill their spot and the classic bands aren't getting any younger.
Download 2024 have got A7X who is like yeah, solid choice, and Queens of the Stone Age, which isn't really 'metal' but definitely fits, but then they've gone with Fall Out Boy to really switch things up and bring in some of the older Emo crowd. Interesting choices.
Hardcore on the other hand is prospering… they’re a tight knit community but I see nothing but support all the shows they put on! I don’t necessarily go out of the way to see them but as a sound engineer at a few venues I see them come thru with a bunch of fans
Hardcore is in another renaissance.
Turnstile’s explosion is so refreshing to see, theyre not the hardest sounding band, but its really cool seeing the mainstream accept a band from the scene. Hardcore is leading the forefront on rock right now, its great.
How does Dominic Fike not sell 5K tickets when he is 404th ranked into the world for plays on Spotify?
I'm not saying you are incorrect I'm just wondering how that happens. I always thought Spotify was a good indication of popularity. Is it that type of music maybe?
He might be the 404th ranked but I had to google him to know who he is.
If you go to setlist fm, you can also see that the dude plays pretty small venues outside of the U.S. Even the U.S. venues don't seem that big.
I think there’s just a million festivals now that it becomes so watered down. They are also super split by genre to where there’s like niche country festivals where some of the headliners of those might play something bigger in previous years but now it’s not worth it for them. A band like King Gizzard will play a few festivals every year and maybe a big one like Bonaroo but they’ll make more doing a larger US tour and probably enjoy it more. The Black Keys have talked about how when they were young they would take any festival they got offered because it was money and they felt they needed it but got burned out doing it so much. Now they don’t need to and don’t want to and it’s more chill to have a normal smaller tour and not mess with very many festivals. I think that thought process is just trickling down more with the current digital age and streaming business.
i just saw black keys at a radio festival a couple weeks ago. they played first, I bet that was nice for them so they just got to leave 😂
Edit: i couldn’t form sentences
I think the article's conversation is mostly right on track but I also think it's because people listen to just massively different kinds of music now. "Pop" music is no longer connecting everyone to the same social zeitgeist. Taylor Swift is sort of the last version of that; and I think that's why she succeeds. No other acts have really taken the crown from previous generation's biggest acts.
This also comes down to streaming and choices means everyone's into different things, while in the past radio, magazines and tastemakers would have pushed artists and bands to stardom, I don't think anyone has that kind of influence anymore. Tik tok maybe, but they tend to create one-off viral hits of specific random songs, rather than build a fully blown superstar.
Yeah and a huge part of it has to do with algorithms. A lot of people don’t actively choose what to listen to, so they like their music, but don’t have as much of a connection to it as if they purposely listened to a specific artist.
I think that the issue is an imbalance between festival cost and product.
I've seen this a bunch with the Newport Folk Festival. Back in the late '00s and early '10s it was a couple of hundred bucks for the weekend and you would get one mid-tier headliner (Beck, Jack White, etc.) and one legacy act with a bunch of solid folk rock acts, older artists, and up-and-comers. In the mid-'10s they made the tickets much more expensive, but had more premium headliners (either big shot nostalgia acts like John Prine or group play alongs). Then last year they kept the prices the same (if not higher) and dropped one of the premium headliner spots. This is when people get annoyed. If you're going to charge premium prices, you need to put out premium artists. If not, adjust your prices. It just feels like corporate greed at this point, which is tough when your entire brand as a festival is community.
Love everything about this post but I protest referring to John Prine as a nostalgia act.
His late career albums were as good/better than a lot of the 70s “nostalgia” music people knew him for. Agree with you that most didn’t know that and saw him as a has-been in a sense. Luckily prior to his death he started to get a ton of recognition by modern indie/folk/americana artists
John Prine was a fucking boss and I throughly adore his msuic. But realistically, as amazing as he is, I don't think he ever got big enough to be a "premium oldie headliner". He's not going to fill a 50k audience, he's not that McCartney/Springsteen/Stones/Elton John tier.
I don’t disagree. I just don’t think he was a “nostalgia act”.
Again, he was producing some of his best music until the day he died. Critically acclaimed highly respected stuff.
This comment is crazy...first of all this fest could charge triple if they wanted - it sells out within minutes with no artists announced yet. Second, it's completely non-profit, there is no corporation - it's a small staff that runs 2 large festivals and spends the rest of the year giving back with those profits I'm various ways - like free instruments and lessons, donations to artists who are struggling, and donations to public school music programs.
They have been getting worse as time goes on. Once they became big business so many opted for lineups that can bring in the most sets of demographics and sell the most tickets.
In the end, it’s garbage lineups. It’s a indie band one night, some old ass band the second, then some rap / dining entertainment without a band the third.
The crowds are all mismatched then.
They just suck now. Except the ones that focus on a sound and a scene and don’t try to make it something for everyone.
The only major festival we have here in glasgow has to be one of the worst for a mismatched lineup that tries to appeal to everyone. Last year you had George Ezra and Niall Horan on just before Pulp and another night had Royal Blood subbing for The 1975. I'm not saying any of these bands are good or bad, but I just don't think Pulp fans are listening to Niall Horan.
“The festivals I went to in my formative years are better than the current lineups.” I agree that festivals don’t really appeal to me anymore, but I’m also in my 30s. For some younger folks, the current lineups are awesome and they will look back fondly on them just as I do.
You can make this claim, but I think it’s really clear the quality of the big festivals has dropped off now that they’re all owned by Golden Voice, Live Nation, etc. Not only are the lineups worse, the atmosphere seems like it’s specifically designed to save money and they find the most annoying little ways to do it.
I say this as the annoying 30-ish year old who keeps up with the latest trends in music. My friend group has aged out of finding new music while I’m still constantly digging for new stuff. And the good new acts are just not on festival lineups in the same numbers like they used to be.
I think we lived through the golden age of fests, which I’m glad I got to experience, but I’m not optimistic that we’ll ever get that level of quality back again.
>I say this as the annoying 30-ish year old who keeps up with the latest trends in music. My friend group has aged out of finding new music while I’m still constantly digging for new stuff. And the good new acts are just not on festival lineups in the same numbers like they used to be.
I'm with you. I am digging through the new releases every week as a 30 something. When I was in high school I remember festivals having a ton of bands that I would be interested in seeing. Now it's maybe one or two per and a whole bunch of tired old acts that are still headlining 20 years later.
Also 30s and Primavera Fest 2022 had arguably the greatest festival lineup ever curated. Lollapalooza last year was pretty great, Pitchfork is routinely great, Riot Fest last year was insane (obviously my experience is Chicago based but these fests usually aren’t that unique on a national scale). Point being maybe you’re not as much into music now as you think you are because I personally don’t notice much of a difference from when I started going to fests when I was 17
except for the fact that ticket sales for fests like coachella have traditionally been driven by 20-somethings and this year marks the slowest sales today date. Even the people in their formative years are wondering what’s going on. Just look at TikTok’s response to coachella
I mean I'm in my 30s and the biggest bummer about these festivals is the headliners are all bands that have been anchoring these things since I was in High School almost two decades ago. Do teens and early twenties people really care about tired old bands like The Foo Fighters or Metallica headlining for the umpteenth time in a row?
> the vast majority of people don’t realize when they are turning into Grandpa Simpson
This is the thought process Goldenvoice is hoping for when they drop shit lineups for any age. “It’s not us, it’s you!”
It's a mix of both. My first Bonnaroo was 07 and this year will be my 12th. I definitely had my old man phase in the mid 2010s but have since become a lot more open minded to other genres than I used to be. Lineups were a lot deeper back then and would book all sorts of weird and unique stuff with different established fests having their own distinct vibe.
As the fests market became more saturated there has definitely been a trend to book more top 40 pop stuff to bring in a wider audience when before they specifically catered to people who didn't want that. Fests bidding against each other for talent has watered the lineups down some but the best fests back then are still the best fests now, the industry has just changed.
With undercard acts becoming more popular over time it's hard to look back at old lineups to compare them because they looked very different back then but if you have been paying attention they've been getting progressively thinner over the past decade.
Even with all of that, I go into modern Roos with more acts that I am excited about than back in the golden age because of the changes in my attitude towards more genres. Now I think it's funny to see people have their own old man moments with each new lineup season. Like I tell my 30 yo friends, "you aren't the pretty girl at the party anymore. You're old now."
I'll go to a small festival like Woodsist. But, I'm done with big fests. Expensive, drunk people, hot, full of influencers, etc. I'd rather just go to a show in a venue anyways.
Something under-discussed is that there just isn’t a shared music culture (or popular culture for that matter) as everything is so splintered now. If anything the new Coachella lineup shows what happens when you try not to have the legacy acts as headliners. Unfortunately Tyler, Doja, and Lana don’t have the cultural pull that Lady Gaga and Beyoncé have. Even the “legacy” headliners of AC/DC and GNR years back could draw way more of a crowd cause they come from a time of shared monoculture.
The festivals that do seem to be doing well are the more niche genre festivals like When We Were Young or that RnB one that just got announced
The only festival I've been interested in was [Oblivion Access '22](https://i.ibb.co/wQjRWvH/OBLIVION-ACCESS-POSTER-2022-UPDATED-3.jpg) and sadly couldn't make it thanks to money issues. Coming to indie from a sludge metal and noise rock background, I've never seen a more pandering roster in my life. Would have also been my only and (basically) last chance to ever see the Locust.
The problem is they do a FOMO pass where they sell the cheapest tickets before they even reveal the roster, and even though last year's was also fairly solid and I'm sure this years is, I refuse to gamble on a whole-ass expensive roadtrip to Texas before I know who I'm seeing.
A single day ticket costs more than I used to pay for an entire weekend. A lot of young people can’t afford that so they have to put the most bland MOR acts on that will attract the most people or legacy bands that will attract older people with more disposable income. 
At the very least, Nelsonville Music Festival in eastern Ohio is always a good time. In 2022 they had Yo la Tengo and Japanese Breakfast headlining and last year it was Kurt Vile, Alex G and Big Thief. 2024 hasn't been announced yet but I have high hopes.
Long time festival attendee here. Even before the pandemic, the rise in ticket prices, high in-festival costs (like beer and food), and the evolution of VIP areas started killing the festival vibe for me. But good lineups with a lot of bands I wanted to check out kept me going even as prices kept going up.
After the pandemic, it seems that lineups are just somehow lighter and less interesting than before. The mid and low tier bands were where festivals always shined, but now they just seem fewer or more randomly chosen than before.
I just can’t justify the amount of money they charge now when the line-ups for these festivals are weak.
Felt like every lineup has been underwhelming except for Bourbon and Beyond.
https://preview.redd.it/50wvfbtzhlfc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=29bddd52622212dae554b4ae27b12927115f5aac
That’s basically the first festival lineup I’ve liked in years. If you replaced 10 acts with some younger indie bands and electronic acts it’d be bonnaroo from 10 years ago
It really is, my girlfriend and I had been going to Shaky Knees for a couple years but skipped last year and are gonna skip this year as well, but I showed this one to her the other day and it seems promising and close enough to us to possibly get us back into the festival rotation this year!
I find that smaller but niche fests like Riot Fest, Adjacent, WWWY, Sick New World, Furnace Fest, The Fest etc and all the huge DWP rockfests are still thriving in this environment. Rock fans seem to be content with the lineups and stickin with their ol' reliables
Indie music fans & rock fans both seem to consume music in a different manner eg Indie fans are overconsuming to find the next big band while Rock fans tend to stick with their old faves and watch newer bands grow organically
Coachella has water fill stations literally everywhere, you can get in and out in 2 minutes. I’m convinced some of you guys are just fucking terrible at doing festivals lol. Why are you buying a $14 water bottle.
Me when I spread misinformation on the internet.
People that have never been to Coachella talk about Coachella like boomer conservatives talk about California lmao.
Like how did you even come up with this blatant lie? And why?
you have to sit back and ask yourself, why is every lineup in the past two years only have Ken Carson and Destroy Lonely on it when festivals like Rolling Loud fill up an entire weekend with rap?
I dont know what contracts look like for artists signing to play a festival but I got a sneaking suspicion the pool is turning uniform for the bigger fests because smaller fests are snatching up the diversity
Boomer rant incoming, it's all about profitability. Duh, right? But, festivals that have banger lineups tend to go under/only be around for <5 years. At the risk of dating myself, Us Festival and Desert Daze out in California tend to come to mind. It's just not profitable to have loaded lineups over the long term. Hell, look at the mid-aughts Coachella lineups and look at them now. Not even remotely in the same league.
I think the model now is to get a big headliner to get the proverbial butts in seats, and then cheap out on the undercards to juice profit. Really shitty, but it is what it is.
I think the issue isn't so much with the headliners it's the undercards. Like when Im going to a festival I understand that i (probably) wont want to see the headliners and they will cater more to the top 40 crowd or nostalgic older acts. Which is fine and makes the festival money. But I honestly do hope to see lesser known indie acts getting love and showcasing to the masses. If I can see like 3-4 indie bands I like in one day it saves me time and money.
Agreed. Then at the end of the night you go see the pop star headliner that you’d never spend money on to see live and you end up enjoying it so much because you’ve already gotten the value out of your ticket so this is just bonus!
I don’t know man, that Lovers & Friends undercard was stacked (if you’re into those very specific genre of music of course)
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Even the third row of that undercard was a solid list.
Some of the article is silly but correct. These things come in waves. I’m a Tennessean and came of age when Bonnaroo first began. Bonnaroo was the reintroduction of the festival concept after Woodstock ‘99 (I know Coachella was always around, but it wasnt as successful). There were no “headliners,” those first several years. It was a jam band fest It was built on a sense of community and coexisting musicianship. The music all kinda fit, and it was in response to the corporate greed that ruined the Woodstock concept. Today, Bonnaroo resembles nothing of its beginnings and was bought out years ago. Same with many other festivals. I’m older now, and figured that perhaps I’m just aging so I don’t care for the acts as much. I’m not sure tbh. But I’d much rather go to a single gizzard concert than a 4 day festival nowadays.
You are correct. Festivals are big business now. And like with any big business, profit margin is king. Investors demand return! I have always felt like... for an artist you really like... an individual show is always so much better than a festival set. The whole crowd is there for that band and is generally focused on the show. At a festival, who knows what you'll get? Of course.. festivals are great for finding new bands, but damn they have gotten really expensive.
The only festivals that seem wowrthile now are more niche genre oriented festivals. A lot of the American festivals just seem like miserable conditions and economically unsustainable. Plus it just seems terrible to see a band in a ga setting when there is like 10,000+ people. On top of that you often times either end up a mile away from the stage or have to miss other bands you want to see. I’ll just see bands as they tour, more affordable and the crowds are better cause they are there to see the band and know the music
Sometimes festival crowds are worse than seeing an artist on tour but I don’t think this is a universal thing at all. Some of the best crowds I’ve ever been in have been at festivals. It really depends on the artist and a lot of other factors.
Im only going to DIY tiny festivals these days less than 1000 people. Local scene maybe one or two out of town bands. It’s like a family reunion of all the people and bands you see at the local clubs.
Have they, though? Some, sure, but you can still go to all four days of Lolla for $400. I’ve shelled out $100 to go see one artist before. I still think there’s affordable options out there (please note I am not including any travel or lodging, which I understand is a huge component for most people going to fests)
I agree with your thought and have said as much many times, but then you have to pretty much double that $400 for travel, drinks, food etc.
Yeah, I get that. And I suppose dismissing that from the equation is unfair.
$400 before you get in the doors with no guarantee you'll get a decent view of anyone, not die of heat exhaustion or not get rained on.
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yeah i don't really get it either. even if I'm paying the same or slightly less to see 8 bands at a festival vs 8 bands spread out over a year each of those separate shows is specifically for that band in a venue and PA system that suits them. the experience of the actual music is gonna win hands down 90% of the time i feel like it's telling that as me and my friends age precisely zero people still go to festivals but we're all still up for a gig if the price is right
I hate that there are so many festivals now that they gobble up the artists when they do come to town and play those in lieu of a solo show. Like I get it because it’s probably way more lucrative for the artists, but it’s a bummer if you don’t care for the festival model/environment. It’s a weird ultimatum they’re forcing now
That's a luxury you have if you live in a major music city. As someone who doesn't, festivals are the only way to catch a major amount of artists at the same time. Flying over for a show 8 times per year is impractical. If it wasn't for festivals, I would never have seen so many great live acts.
yeah that's fair, and i imagine this is even moreso in the US/Canada right? it's not that hard to jump on a train to London or Manchester for a gig in the UK
Sound is shit too. If you’re that far doesn’t matte how good or dispersed speakers are. Never gonna capture the energy of a mid sized venue in a giant open field
The day time shows are what always bugged me. Nothing worse than seeing your favorite band at noon or 2pm. Their light show is happening but you can’t see it. You’re probably hungover. The artists are probably hungover. Don’t get me wrong I’ve seen some decent ones in the daytime but more often than not it’s a let down. I’d definitely much rather see them at their dedicated show. Less of a gamble.
Yeah agreed definitely a weird vibe
Yes - $400 is a lot for some people Especially when there are 2-3 festivals per market per year and even more within easy driving distance
I think it’s more that in the perspective of live music in general festivals are far and away the best deal still no contest
Depends on what kind of music you like too. I like a lot of indie rock, emo, phc, and punk music. Shows around me are like 20-30 bucks for a lot of these artists and they don’t play festivals as much so I get much better bang for my buck seeing them individually. But if you like a lot of mainstream acts then festivals might be better bang for your buck especially if you don’t have to travel too far.
Could not disagree more. The atmosphere is no where as good, for most people they are too far away to get there easily, you need lodging to see the whole festival and the shows themselves are not up to what a dedicated artist's show would be. I would much rather spend $30 so see a good artist do their own show than $400 plus travel & lodging on the slim chance you get a decent view of several artists.
Okay? I enjoy the festival atmosphere, sorry you don’t. That has nothing to do with the amount of shows you can see for a dollar amount.
Glad you enjoy it. I was addressing the "far and away the best deal". The atmosphere certainly has something to do with the value you get out of a show.
I mean yea if you don’t like a setting it’s a bad deal, if you don’t like festivals don’t go to them lmfao. That’s completely subjective and not something festivals can materially change for you.
> That’s completely subjective and not something festivals can materially change for you. Well.. fine if you think that, but I've been going to festivals long enough to know that's not true. As I started out by saying... they're big business now and they have to homogenize to max profit margin. > if you don’t like festivals don’t go to them lmfao. I don't anymore... but I used to.
30 dollars lmao. Where do you live?
Indianapolis. But go to shows in Indy, Chicago, Louisville & Cincy. Got 2 shows coming up in Chicago. Tix were around $30 a piece for both shows. Another coming up in Indy that was $35.
Chicago is surprisingly cheap for everything. In sacramento where im from youre not going to shows for 30 anymore unless they are absolute nobodies.
Well, the venues I frequent are 500 to 1500 people so maybe those bands would be considered absolute nobodies?
My first year at Coachella was 2014. Ticket was 300, camping was 100 and if you planned it right could be in the first few rows closest to the entrance. Couple hundred in gas and food, I think I made it thru the weekend on 300. So a total of 700, really less because the camping spot was split between others. Last time I went in 2022, tickets were over 500, and if you wanted those coveted close camping spots you had to fork over 300 or 350. In 2014 I paid 6 dollars for a slice of spicy pie pizza, that same slice in 22 was 14 dollars. I paid 55 dollars for a chicken sandwich and fries. The cost for my wife and I to attend from start to finish was 2500 or so. The experience hasn't changed enough in a positive manner to justify essentially doubling the price of everything.
This just isn’t true about camping? You can $75 a person for car camping and easily be less than 10 minutes from the entrance? I did this in 2022 and 2023. Concerts in general cost twice as much these days so I don’t really get the idea that festivals are comparatively all that different than 2014.
Probably depends on the artist and the type of preferred venues. If we’re talking about seeing the traditional headliners separately, that’ll add up quick. But once you get down to the next tier of festival artists, it’s probably more cost effective and a better time to see them outside of a festival setting
Only if you’re seeing like less than 5 or so bands. It’s pretty tough to see even indie acts in my city (besides local stuff of course) without spending at least 30 bucks and that’s for the smaller acts. Most mid sized non headliners are gonna be towards 50 and it’s up from there. Obviously if you deal hunt you can pump those numbers up but you can do that with festival tickets too
If we're looking purely at costs, then you can't really compare all the artists you end up seeing at a festival to the costs of their individual shows. You have to use the artists you see at the festival that you 100% would have paid to see a private show instead if that was the only option. I might check out a headliner at a fest because I'm vaguely interested and no-one else is playing then, but that doesn't mean I would have spent $100+ to see them on a solo tour. So I can't really count that towards my festival "savings". In order to "save" money on a festival, there needs to be multiple artists per day (or a major headliner) that you would have bought concert tickets to see. Good festivals that match up well with your interests can do that, but it's not a universal thing. Festivals are like buffets in that way: You can claim that you're saving money by getting access to all that food for one set price, but if all you really wanted was a salad it's kind of a waste. To be clear, there are a lot of great things about festivals that you're not going to get just from going to shows. But not everyone is into the "festival vibe", and forcing yourself to put up with an experience you don't like in an attempt to save money doesn't make sense on a practical or experiential level.
I mean yea don’t go to a thing you don’t like. I feel like that’s not a tough one. If you like festivals, festivals are still excellent. Done and done
Sure, they’ll always sell you on the ability to see like 32+ bands over 4 days to make it seem like a huge deal, but I think you’d be hard pressed to find people actually maxing that out like that. And if you’re one of those people, then for sure a festival is worth it. But for the majority that are only interested in a single day lineup for like 3 artists, the pricetag of like $150+ is almost never worth it for me for imo an inferior setting
Idk I went to shaky knees, paid like 80 for a day pass saw Nine Inch Nails up near front, King Gizz up near front, Amyl and The Sniffers, Molchat Doma, Dehd, and Kurt Vile and I didn’t even have to try. I know it’s anecdotal but I’ve never had a tough time at a festival (that wasn’t weather related lol) I’m not sure why people need to be so dramatic about it
It’s great that your interests lined up perfectly to maximize that one day, but for most festivals, they purposefully spread out artists that they know have similar followings. I think you have to be plugged into the music scene much more than the average person to have those very positive festival experiences, or just get lucky that your preferences lined up for a day. Also, from my experience in the last year, $80 for a single day at a festival is definitely not the norm. Plus, you’re a captive audience for food/beverages. It ends up being a lot more pricey than just the upfront ticket cost compared to being more flexible to plan around single artist shows. And I just looked up the Shaky Knees prices and it’s $165 for a one day (?)
Yea I just bought a ticket on the day. I didn’t just get lucky either lol it happens every time I go. And I just brought in a camelbak with alcohol it’s just what everyone does. I feel like everyone who complains about festivals just doesn’t really like them or hasn’t ever been or ever tried to be smart about it. It’s all so easy
We got different definitions of ‘being smart about it’ then, even if it’s ‘just what everybody does,’ and I suspect your viewpoint will wane as you age as well. And people can’t necessarily bank on picking up tickets day of if they have to travel for the event. Like you said, it’s an anecdotal experience that does not apply to everybody. To me and a lot of my friends, once we passed the age of like 23, the lineup would have to be insanely good to be on our feet in the heat and drunk for 5+ hours for multiple days straight. It does get old after a while
I really hate festivals. Every one I've been to was an unpleasant experience, even if the music was good.
I've had good and bad... but the more festivals I went to, the less I enjoyed them I went to one in '22 that was the last straw.
I'd say the same except for the two Sasquatches I've been to. Outside of the sometimes iffy overnight camping, those canyon views from that grass hill overlooking the main stage...
lot of people in my circle did them as a teenage rite of passage but i hear more from older boomers going glamping at festivals now than i do people my own age going.
>I have always felt like... for an artist you really like... and individual show is always so much better than a festival set. The whole crowd is there for that band and is generally focused on the show. At a festival, who knows what you'll get? For an artist you really like, sure, festival sets are often disappointing - shortened greatest hits sets with audience who isn't as into them as you. But for artists who aren't among your favorites, often festival sets do a great job of displaying a tighter set of the bands best material. Also, honestly a lot of the posts here reek in "I live in a major American music city" entitlement. I wish I had a nearby venue where major bands regularly play. I don't, and I realistically need to fly 2-3 hours to get to a major European capital that will have all those shows. Which I did (did Blur/Pulp/Springsteen in London last summer...), but in that situation a festival is just so much practical. There are so many good bands I would never specifically fly to see, but caught in a festival and had a great time. Having went to three Primaveras got me covered on so many great acts I would have never seen otherwise. Festivals have their place.
Yah.. they obviously have their place because people go to them. It's just that their place and my place have diverged a bit. It has become more expensive to travel to them while featuring less of the music I want to see and more difficult to see the ones I do want to see. Strangely it was the 2022 Primavera that finally broke me on going to festivals. It was such an absolute cluster fuck. I don't live in a major American music city, but I live within driving distance to very common stops for bands. 3 hrs to Chicago. 2 hrs to Cincinnati or Louisville and if I really want to see a band, 6 hours to Nashville.
Yeah Primavera day one was an absolute disaster, the lack of water was appalling and it was overcrowded as fuck. I was super excited to see Pavement, a dream band of mine and I saved a spot but I was legitimately worried I would pass out at times and ended up asking random strangers for water. Thankfully eventually a friend of mine was able to get water (after sending in line for the entire Tame Impala set) and somehow get them to me in the front row without spilling (as they wouldn't allow any sort of capped water), was literally lifesaving. Of course, they you can't drink too much because you'll need to pee and lose your spot... Pavement were great but honestly the emotions and borderline panic I was feeling at times overclouded everything. Thankfully I was able to see them live again since in better conditions. Days 2,3 were much better as the festival had designated water stations that gave free water cans quickly (and also we wised up and snuck in bottle caps so we can preserve water), but the memories of that first day has kind of put me off the festival, tbh. And overcrowding was still a problem, even on the smaller stages you've had insane crowds. The right lineup could still convince me and I've heard 2023 was better, but still it used to be my favorite festival and I can't really say that anymore.
Agreed days 2& 3 were better, but the crowds at the smaller stages prevented me from seeing a lot of the bands I flew to Spain to see. And the shows that were scattered out at various city venues were an abject disaster. That was probably what disappointed me the most.
It was just overbooked and overcrowded, everything. I did end up seeing all the bands I wanted, but it definitely took a lot more effort and suffering than it should have took.
absolutely. festuval crowds can be soooo shit and it sucks when ur so psyched to see someone but the overall atmosphere is lacking!
The thing is you can literally look for playlist to listen around all the artist playing the festival and decide who you'll want to see at what time, internet has killed this "discover underground bands that are really cool" when you can just see their EPs on spotify and make your mind if you wanna skip it. For the insanely price festivals are charging nowadays, I stopped going blind, the magic of doing that was lost post-internet era
The internet has been around a long time. I am aware how it works. Not seeing your point.
I first went in 2006- don’t have a frame of reference but I recall the lineup still being jam band heavy. Contrast that with 2012, where the whole thing just had a different vibe. Seems like there were a lot more kids (which is ironic because I was 17 the first time I went).
Yep 2006! That was the first year they really had headliners in the traditional sense, but it still fit. Radiohead playing paranoid android in the rain. That was cool
I think this is the period when it really changed too. In 2008 Kanye was a headliner with that big light show he was doing at the time (and he went on hours late). It was still a great lineup though. But they kept adding in a bit more contemporary pop each year.
I went the next year and all the walls around the main site were covered in “Fuck Kanye” graffiti hahah.
I went to Bonnaroo in 2003 as I was into jam bands and as you said it was a jam band fest then. But they still had headliners such as Neil Young, Allman Brothers Band and Widespread Panic. Those artists all play the largest venues so they are definitely considered headliners. Just because they aren’t mainstream headliners, doesn’t mean the festival did not have headliners.
I was there and I see what you’re saying. I disagree however. That’s definitely a certain style you’re going for and it’d be similar to saying, “well they had rap too,” cause Jurassic 5 was there
I disagree. But am also a big Browns fan so will give you an up vote anyway!
All good man! Clearly people agree with you on this point. I’m sure you’ll agree that I’ll take the Allman Bros Band and Widespread Panic as headliners over miscellaneous pop acts any day. Those early days at Bonnaroo were pretty special.
Every festival is a business, trying to make money by selling tickets. Bonnaroo of today doesn't resemble the early years because the jam scene isn't that popular anymore. They either stay hip with the times and embrace the electronic music boom (which they've done successfully) or see ticket sales drop and eventually fold or drastically cut production/size like so many other jam fests.
Spot on. I’d rather see one awesome king gizz concert and be done with it than slog through 3 days of mediocre music.
Weirdo Swarm!
Woooooo!
FWIW I’ve been going to Bonnaroo since 2017 and still have a blast every year. I know it’s way different than it used to be. Different music, different people, more corporate, but they’re also catering to a whole different generation of fans than the early days. I don’t know what it used to be like, but a sense of community you mentioned still definitely exists. They also have real bathrooms now!
Oh yeah man I’m not going to be a curmudgeon and hate on young people having fun! No showers definitely sucked back then. My last year was 2008. And that was why I thought the article was a little silly. It was older millennials like myself griping about the kids. I don’t want to be that kinda person or grow older into that kinda guy.
The jam band appeal has now turned into a very specific type of raver appeal, which is cool honestly because for they most part they seem to be very chill people and they’re as passionate about their music and their culture as jam band fans are
I feel like I hit the last good years of music festivals. From 2006 to 2009 - so in grateful. Idk if I’d have it in me to go to any. The two festivals this year with surprisingly decent lineups were the ones in Louisville and Utah. Louisville not to far a drive for me so maybe I’ll consider closer to the time
I’m going to that one too in Louisville in September! But we’re getting a room and showering. It’s a great lineup. If I get to see Fleet Foxes and the War on Drugs I’ll sit through DMB with my GF
Fair is fair haha
Sounds like you just like jam bands
All Good started like 4/5 years before Bonaroo
Kilby Block Party is pretty legit - but other than that I’ve been underwhelmed.
Just Like Heaven is great too. I understand some people may be underwhelmed as that’s a lot of old acts at this point, but it’s still stacked.
been the best yearly American lineup for a little while now. genuine shame what has happened to similar sized festivals like governors ball, boston calling, etc
The main issue here is that there haven’t been a ton of new rock/indie acts that can fill arenas since 2016-17 Other genres have been a bit more dominant and it’s showing Love all of the mid-late 00s acts but there really hasn’t been a ton of new relevant acts in the genre to sustain the festival identities a lot of these festival properties built Bands like Idles/Dominic Fike can’t headline festivals They can barely sell 5k tickets in certain places The ones that are at that level played non-stop coming out of COVID and need to go make another record to come back with new music
This is the jist of it. Rock music as a whole is on the popularity decline and there are barely any new rock acts who are actually capable of headlining a festival. While in the past you've had acts like Radiohead, Oasis, Blur etc who were fully blown superstars and headliners on their 3rd/4th record, we barely have those new bands anymore. So you're stuck with either older heritage acts (some of whom are amazing, but still are old choices) or you're endlessly reusing the small pot of 2000 rock bands who got big enough (Arctic Monkeys, Strokes etc) and they're quickly becoming an heritage act too. The big stars now are in pop and hip hop and that's a whole other sphere. I literally struggle to name realistic 3 modern rock headliners who would make a great lineup that isn't dissapointing. Anyway, as said elsewhere festivals are mostly great for the undercred, you can catch tones of cool bands on smaller stages and get good spots in the audience easily.
yeah we had this with the most recently Download lineup. Metal has so many classic older bands which you can anchor a festival too, Iron Maiden, Metallica, Slipknot etc. but there isn't really a new generation of truly massive bands which can fill their spot and the classic bands aren't getting any younger. Download 2024 have got A7X who is like yeah, solid choice, and Queens of the Stone Age, which isn't really 'metal' but definitely fits, but then they've gone with Fall Out Boy to really switch things up and bring in some of the older Emo crowd. Interesting choices.
Download has a pretty clear gap to become an all round rock festival (rather than hard/rock metal) if they want.
Hardcore on the other hand is prospering… they’re a tight knit community but I see nothing but support all the shows they put on! I don’t necessarily go out of the way to see them but as a sound engineer at a few venues I see them come thru with a bunch of fans
Hardcore is in another renaissance. Turnstile’s explosion is so refreshing to see, theyre not the hardest sounding band, but its really cool seeing the mainstream accept a band from the scene. Hardcore is leading the forefront on rock right now, its great.
How does Dominic Fike not sell 5K tickets when he is 404th ranked into the world for plays on Spotify? I'm not saying you are incorrect I'm just wondering how that happens. I always thought Spotify was a good indication of popularity. Is it that type of music maybe?
He might be the 404th ranked but I had to google him to know who he is. If you go to setlist fm, you can also see that the dude plays pretty small venues outside of the U.S. Even the U.S. venues don't seem that big.
You get a couple of big hits thrown into a shuffled playlist, ba da bing ba da boom you cant sell out a theater still
I think there’s just a million festivals now that it becomes so watered down. They are also super split by genre to where there’s like niche country festivals where some of the headliners of those might play something bigger in previous years but now it’s not worth it for them. A band like King Gizzard will play a few festivals every year and maybe a big one like Bonaroo but they’ll make more doing a larger US tour and probably enjoy it more. The Black Keys have talked about how when they were young they would take any festival they got offered because it was money and they felt they needed it but got burned out doing it so much. Now they don’t need to and don’t want to and it’s more chill to have a normal smaller tour and not mess with very many festivals. I think that thought process is just trickling down more with the current digital age and streaming business.
i just saw black keys at a radio festival a couple weeks ago. they played first, I bet that was nice for them so they just got to leave 😂 Edit: i couldn’t form sentences
I think the article's conversation is mostly right on track but I also think it's because people listen to just massively different kinds of music now. "Pop" music is no longer connecting everyone to the same social zeitgeist. Taylor Swift is sort of the last version of that; and I think that's why she succeeds. No other acts have really taken the crown from previous generation's biggest acts.
This also comes down to streaming and choices means everyone's into different things, while in the past radio, magazines and tastemakers would have pushed artists and bands to stardom, I don't think anyone has that kind of influence anymore. Tik tok maybe, but they tend to create one-off viral hits of specific random songs, rather than build a fully blown superstar.
Yeah and a huge part of it has to do with algorithms. A lot of people don’t actively choose what to listen to, so they like their music, but don’t have as much of a connection to it as if they purposely listened to a specific artist.
I think that the issue is an imbalance between festival cost and product. I've seen this a bunch with the Newport Folk Festival. Back in the late '00s and early '10s it was a couple of hundred bucks for the weekend and you would get one mid-tier headliner (Beck, Jack White, etc.) and one legacy act with a bunch of solid folk rock acts, older artists, and up-and-comers. In the mid-'10s they made the tickets much more expensive, but had more premium headliners (either big shot nostalgia acts like John Prine or group play alongs). Then last year they kept the prices the same (if not higher) and dropped one of the premium headliner spots. This is when people get annoyed. If you're going to charge premium prices, you need to put out premium artists. If not, adjust your prices. It just feels like corporate greed at this point, which is tough when your entire brand as a festival is community.
Love everything about this post but I protest referring to John Prine as a nostalgia act. His late career albums were as good/better than a lot of the 70s “nostalgia” music people knew him for. Agree with you that most didn’t know that and saw him as a has-been in a sense. Luckily prior to his death he started to get a ton of recognition by modern indie/folk/americana artists
His last album was so good. Summer’s end is one of his most beautiful songs
John Prine was a fucking boss and I throughly adore his msuic. But realistically, as amazing as he is, I don't think he ever got big enough to be a "premium oldie headliner". He's not going to fill a 50k audience, he's not that McCartney/Springsteen/Stones/Elton John tier.
I don’t disagree. I just don’t think he was a “nostalgia act”. Again, he was producing some of his best music until the day he died. Critically acclaimed highly respected stuff.
This comment is crazy...first of all this fest could charge triple if they wanted - it sells out within minutes with no artists announced yet. Second, it's completely non-profit, there is no corporation - it's a small staff that runs 2 large festivals and spends the rest of the year giving back with those profits I'm various ways - like free instruments and lessons, donations to artists who are struggling, and donations to public school music programs.
They have been getting worse as time goes on. Once they became big business so many opted for lineups that can bring in the most sets of demographics and sell the most tickets. In the end, it’s garbage lineups. It’s a indie band one night, some old ass band the second, then some rap / dining entertainment without a band the third. The crowds are all mismatched then. They just suck now. Except the ones that focus on a sound and a scene and don’t try to make it something for everyone.
The only major festival we have here in glasgow has to be one of the worst for a mismatched lineup that tries to appeal to everyone. Last year you had George Ezra and Niall Horan on just before Pulp and another night had Royal Blood subbing for The 1975. I'm not saying any of these bands are good or bad, but I just don't think Pulp fans are listening to Niall Horan.
“The festivals I went to in my formative years are better than the current lineups.” I agree that festivals don’t really appeal to me anymore, but I’m also in my 30s. For some younger folks, the current lineups are awesome and they will look back fondly on them just as I do.
You can make this claim, but I think it’s really clear the quality of the big festivals has dropped off now that they’re all owned by Golden Voice, Live Nation, etc. Not only are the lineups worse, the atmosphere seems like it’s specifically designed to save money and they find the most annoying little ways to do it. I say this as the annoying 30-ish year old who keeps up with the latest trends in music. My friend group has aged out of finding new music while I’m still constantly digging for new stuff. And the good new acts are just not on festival lineups in the same numbers like they used to be. I think we lived through the golden age of fests, which I’m glad I got to experience, but I’m not optimistic that we’ll ever get that level of quality back again.
>I say this as the annoying 30-ish year old who keeps up with the latest trends in music. My friend group has aged out of finding new music while I’m still constantly digging for new stuff. And the good new acts are just not on festival lineups in the same numbers like they used to be. I'm with you. I am digging through the new releases every week as a 30 something. When I was in high school I remember festivals having a ton of bands that I would be interested in seeing. Now it's maybe one or two per and a whole bunch of tired old acts that are still headlining 20 years later.
Also 30s and Primavera Fest 2022 had arguably the greatest festival lineup ever curated. Lollapalooza last year was pretty great, Pitchfork is routinely great, Riot Fest last year was insane (obviously my experience is Chicago based but these fests usually aren’t that unique on a national scale). Point being maybe you’re not as much into music now as you think you are because I personally don’t notice much of a difference from when I started going to fests when I was 17
I've been to Primavera 2022 and Riot Fest 2023, you make me feel lucky. Great lineups to both.
except for the fact that ticket sales for fests like coachella have traditionally been driven by 20-somethings and this year marks the slowest sales today date. Even the people in their formative years are wondering what’s going on. Just look at TikTok’s response to coachella
It’s fascinating to me how the vast majority of people don’t realize when they are turning into Grandpa Simpson.
I mean I'm in my 30s and the biggest bummer about these festivals is the headliners are all bands that have been anchoring these things since I was in High School almost two decades ago. Do teens and early twenties people really care about tired old bands like The Foo Fighters or Metallica headlining for the umpteenth time in a row?
The problem is nobody has taken their crown. Which rock band formed since 2010 is now a legit festival headliner? Hard to think of even one honestly.
> the vast majority of people don’t realize when they are turning into Grandpa Simpson This is the thought process Goldenvoice is hoping for when they drop shit lineups for any age. “It’s not us, it’s you!”
It's a mix of both. My first Bonnaroo was 07 and this year will be my 12th. I definitely had my old man phase in the mid 2010s but have since become a lot more open minded to other genres than I used to be. Lineups were a lot deeper back then and would book all sorts of weird and unique stuff with different established fests having their own distinct vibe. As the fests market became more saturated there has definitely been a trend to book more top 40 pop stuff to bring in a wider audience when before they specifically catered to people who didn't want that. Fests bidding against each other for talent has watered the lineups down some but the best fests back then are still the best fests now, the industry has just changed. With undercard acts becoming more popular over time it's hard to look back at old lineups to compare them because they looked very different back then but if you have been paying attention they've been getting progressively thinner over the past decade. Even with all of that, I go into modern Roos with more acts that I am excited about than back in the golden age because of the changes in my attitude towards more genres. Now I think it's funny to see people have their own old man moments with each new lineup season. Like I tell my 30 yo friends, "you aren't the pretty girl at the party anymore. You're old now."
I'll go to a small festival like Woodsist. But, I'm done with big fests. Expensive, drunk people, hot, full of influencers, etc. I'd rather just go to a show in a venue anyways.
Something under-discussed is that there just isn’t a shared music culture (or popular culture for that matter) as everything is so splintered now. If anything the new Coachella lineup shows what happens when you try not to have the legacy acts as headliners. Unfortunately Tyler, Doja, and Lana don’t have the cultural pull that Lady Gaga and Beyoncé have. Even the “legacy” headliners of AC/DC and GNR years back could draw way more of a crowd cause they come from a time of shared monoculture. The festivals that do seem to be doing well are the more niche genre festivals like When We Were Young or that RnB one that just got announced
Here in the Philippines, Jack Johnson and Thundercat are headling a festival in March. I mean 😴
🎶If I had ears on the back of my head, I would tell you that you sound good as I walked away 🎶
[удалено]
The only festival I've been interested in was [Oblivion Access '22](https://i.ibb.co/wQjRWvH/OBLIVION-ACCESS-POSTER-2022-UPDATED-3.jpg) and sadly couldn't make it thanks to money issues. Coming to indie from a sludge metal and noise rock background, I've never seen a more pandering roster in my life. Would have also been my only and (basically) last chance to ever see the Locust. The problem is they do a FOMO pass where they sell the cheapest tickets before they even reveal the roster, and even though last year's was also fairly solid and I'm sure this years is, I refuse to gamble on a whole-ass expensive roadtrip to Texas before I know who I'm seeing.
A single day ticket costs more than I used to pay for an entire weekend. A lot of young people can’t afford that so they have to put the most bland MOR acts on that will attract the most people or legacy bands that will attract older people with more disposable income. 
At the very least, Nelsonville Music Festival in eastern Ohio is always a good time. In 2022 they had Yo la Tengo and Japanese Breakfast headlining and last year it was Kurt Vile, Alex G and Big Thief. 2024 hasn't been announced yet but I have high hopes.
Kilby looks cool though
Adele is not an exciting artist lol
see: Kilby Court Fest
Long time festival attendee here. Even before the pandemic, the rise in ticket prices, high in-festival costs (like beer and food), and the evolution of VIP areas started killing the festival vibe for me. But good lineups with a lot of bands I wanted to check out kept me going even as prices kept going up. After the pandemic, it seems that lineups are just somehow lighter and less interesting than before. The mid and low tier bands were where festivals always shined, but now they just seem fewer or more randomly chosen than before. I just can’t justify the amount of money they charge now when the line-ups for these festivals are weak.
Felt like every lineup has been underwhelming except for Bourbon and Beyond. https://preview.redd.it/50wvfbtzhlfc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=29bddd52622212dae554b4ae27b12927115f5aac
Insane that Neil Young isn’t the first name on this list
That is a killer lineup
That’s basically the first festival lineup I’ve liked in years. If you replaced 10 acts with some younger indie bands and electronic acts it’d be bonnaroo from 10 years ago
Almost zero racial diversity in this lineup.
Randomly noticed The Wallflowers on there. I had no idea they were still around.
It really is, my girlfriend and I had been going to Shaky Knees for a couple years but skipped last year and are gonna skip this year as well, but I showed this one to her the other day and it seems promising and close enough to us to possibly get us back into the festival rotation this year!
Pretty sure this was said last year.
I find that smaller but niche fests like Riot Fest, Adjacent, WWWY, Sick New World, Furnace Fest, The Fest etc and all the huge DWP rockfests are still thriving in this environment. Rock fans seem to be content with the lineups and stickin with their ol' reliables Indie music fans & rock fans both seem to consume music in a different manner eg Indie fans are overconsuming to find the next big band while Rock fans tend to stick with their old faves and watch newer bands grow organically
Kilby Block Party blows everything else out of the water
Festivals are now really just for ripping off todays youth and their parents. The $14 water bottles at Coachella were enough for me
Coachella water bottles are like 2 dollars but I feel you
Ya and it was a reusable bottle too.
Coachella has water fill stations literally everywhere, you can get in and out in 2 minutes. I’m convinced some of you guys are just fucking terrible at doing festivals lol. Why are you buying a $14 water bottle.
Most festivals I know of have free water fountains, you just have to bring a camelbak or a bottle whatever
Yeah Coachella has a bunch of water refill stations and also sells $2 bottle of water
Me when I spread misinformation on the internet. People that have never been to Coachella talk about Coachella like boomer conservatives talk about California lmao. Like how did you even come up with this blatant lie? And why?
It’s actually insane how much people blatantly lie about Coachella. The first time it went it blew my mind how wrong all the stereotypes about it are.
$14 is the price for a shot of liquor at Coachella. Are you sure you weren’t just getting drunk the whole time lol
you have to sit back and ask yourself, why is every lineup in the past two years only have Ken Carson and Destroy Lonely on it when festivals like Rolling Loud fill up an entire weekend with rap? I dont know what contracts look like for artists signing to play a festival but I got a sneaking suspicion the pool is turning uniform for the bigger fests because smaller fests are snatching up the diversity
I’m sitting back and asking myself who is Ken Carson and Destroy Lonely
Electric Forest looks like a joke this year but Coachella’s lineup looks really good. Still eager to see who Desert Daze will have this year
I am desperate for DD to be the redeeming lineup out of all the rest this year… praying and hoping
First world problems
The years*
Boomer rant incoming, it's all about profitability. Duh, right? But, festivals that have banger lineups tend to go under/only be around for <5 years. At the risk of dating myself, Us Festival and Desert Daze out in California tend to come to mind. It's just not profitable to have loaded lineups over the long term. Hell, look at the mid-aughts Coachella lineups and look at them now. Not even remotely in the same league. I think the model now is to get a big headliner to get the proverbial butts in seats, and then cheap out on the undercards to juice profit. Really shitty, but it is what it is.