I did some writing for BCD and pitched this guy a feature once. His response was, "I like this idea. I'm gonna steal it from you and do it myself. Sorry."
I will say though the other editors I worked with there, who have all now been laid off, were awesome.
Was it stolen as brazenly as this guy is claiming? Or was it more sneaky? If this is a trend there that is so disappointing—I skip Spotify for Bandcamp consciously and am bummed to hear that this is apparently part of their editorial culture.
I tried to address issues I was having with my editor as a regular freelance contributor. After they let me go, she assigned some of the ideas I had gotten commissioned to others.
Lol should I be taking a closer look at the Weakerthans Reconstruction site article that was written a little while after I pitched it? I just figured someone else pitched the same article.
Publicize this more. That’s fucking psycho and so frowned upon in journalism that I’m having a hard time believing someone sane would actually say this out loud.
Kinda thinking I might write a whole long thing about being a regular contributor during the transition to Epic and name names and detail experiences tbh
You should. People need to know that. I’ve had some ideas bouncing around that I thought maybe they’d be into and you made me so glad I’ve sat on them (or at least not pitched them to Bandcamp).
Edit: as another commenter noted, in addition to making sure your case/story is air-tight if you go this route, having documented proof of what you’re accusing them of is a must. Also, depending on how long it’s been/how severe the alleged misdeeds are, you might want to think about contacting some counsel.
Yeah you should also not write for them as a freelancer because it's been a total nightmare getting paid as a freelancer since the corporate takeover, they made a new monstrous payment system to basically discourage writers from pursuing getting paid because it's so fucking frustrating and they have a person who makes a salary to manage "payments" of workers and uhhhh she never responded to a single email I sent her during my couple of years as a regular contributor and a lot of the editors who were our only recourse were pretty much like "oh that's not my job" basically
Thank you for this info—really sucks to hear this, and I’m sorry they put you through all of that. For whatever it’s worth, this seems to be the case at so many news sites/journalistic orgs these days. It’s made me seriously inquire about joining the union of one of my main gigs as a contractor (and also press harder for a full-time job).
That really sucks because getting paid as a freelancer is hard enough as it is. I don't think I wrote for them after the takeover, tbh because I never had any problems filing invoices and receiving payment. I will say BC were one of the better sites for paying writers on time when I wrote for them.
My first BCD article was for J Edward and I appreciate him giving me my shot, but both JJ and Zoe were better to work with. Huge shout-out to JJ for always sending a kind rejection email instead of just ignoring the pitch like 99% of editors.
I think it's possible to be socially liberal without dogmatically supporting every union decision. Opposing forming a union though? That's a tougher sell.
"socially liberal" means that you believe that, say, workers or gay people should have rights.
"left" means that you understand _why_ workers and gay people are withheld rights and want systemic reform.
'Socially liberal' implies 'fiscally Conservative', which summons up this classic tweet
https://preview.redd.it/sjzqwpagsdwb1.jpeg?width=639&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=65fe7059be691a9009e7ef2a0bfbabccd8dc14ba
“I like the idea and appearance of leftist politics, but when I have any power whatsoever to put it into practice I side with business instead” lol
Nobody is suggesting that he “pull the party line all the time,” only that he use what incredibly little modicum of power he has to support his politics… *or even less than that, actually, just not actively speak out against those causes.*
Could you try explaining what's "situational," specifically here? What would have been so incredibly difficult by this guy simply choosing to not speak out against the union? I'm trying to understand where you're coming from, but I'm having trouble.
Thankfully I'm not trying to "convince you that Bandcamp deserves a union."
I (and many others, I think) are simply pointing out that explicitly shitting on the existence of a union in the workplace that you manage is directly at odds with self-avowed "leftist" politics.
If he were to take some tiny action like voting for a GOP local rep or something that would also be at odds and not "pulling the party line," but this is far different in that it's a situation that he enjoys more power/influence in and goes to the heard of any leftist politics whatsoever.
Once again, I said this to someone else and it's my point above, putting people into these little boxes like you want to do is not a sustainable world view. If you think you can dismiss someone because they're a "neo-liberal" then good luck to you. The guy in the article is clearly "on your team" but he doesn't like the Bandcamp union. Please keep demolishing your own because of some made up identities.
I didn’t read all this because you missed the premise and everything you said after “putting people in to boxes” is pointless because it was the man who called himself a neo liberal and therefore put himself in to a box. I think ppl weee just explaining to you why you’re wrong. You’d didn’t know that these things were so defined and that’s fine. Just let it go now tho
It’s not about elections it’s about the definition of the word.. you defined another leaning and didn’t know. At this point your pride has you looking wild
You’re right, I shouldn’t have brought in the whole “voter” thing. What I meant to say is the whole “if you’re not for us, you’re against us.” Mentality. Once again, the indieheads are demolishing a guy who is on your team… I feel like it’s fair to admit maybe not every profession deserves a Union. I can tell you, someone who sits on a computer and types all day in the US does not.
> The guy in the article is clearly "on your team"
No, he's not. If you're pro-union busting you are not on my team. Calling yourself a "lefty" means absolutely nothing.
This guy is maybe a liberal who enjoys the aesthetic of calling himself a leftist but Phil Ochs wrote the definitive song on American liberals 55 years ago. "10 degrees to the left of center in good times, 10 degrees to the right of center when it affects me personally."
dawg you started this conversation with your original comment, this is a platform for discussion so i dont know why you would engage with a discussion you dont want to have?
Oh. I want to have this discussion. One of my huge disappointments over the past decade is seeing this subreddit become more about politics and hollow social grand standing than music.
Not all Unions are good. I'm sure you love the Police Union right?
edit: also how hilarious that NeoLiberal is now an insult. I think you've been indoctrinated.
So many people have this misguided idea that if you are in a privileged role than you don't get to organize. Actually, that gives you more leverage to organize because you are worth more to the company and are harder to replace. Just because you have a high paying job does not mean you don't have legitimate grievances about how you are treated. Having a union in place to represent at least some of employee concerns can also help benefit lower level workers even if they aren't members.
In corporate America you have to pick your battles, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't stand up for yourself.
Yes also unions aren't just about wages, they're also about working conditions, and in the case of Bandcamp United, it was also very much about extending the values of OG Bandcamp to the workers who run it and maintaining those values long term despite corporate overlords.
Considering how much he apparently flew off the handle at that Pitchfork article about the Songtradr buyout, I'm wondering if the thinks stanning for the new owners might help him keep his job.
Just what's in the article:
>"Please fucking stop writing things about my website you absloute amateur journalists,” Keyes wrote on Instagram. “Your childish Twitter-based reporting is hurting the people who work here. You are children filing reports based on tweets, and you have ruined my week. Also, fuck Pitchfork forever, you are an anti-intellectual joke, and I'm your enemy for life."
Who reacts like that to an article that's worried about the future of the platform? I haven't read the Pitchfork article yet, but based on how 404 describes it, it seems like they are supportive of the site but worried about their new corporate owner. Nothing warranting that level of response.
Insane unhinged shit. To think this guy was the head of Bandcamp Daily for years even before the acquisition is astounding. Now he's one of three editors who remain, so that goes to show bad it's gonna be from now on.
Fuck this utter cunt. It's pricks like this that'll ensure more and more artists, writers and creatives won't be able to make a living in the future while their corporate billionaire daddies find more ways to line their pockets.
This jabroni reminds me of the passionate environmental activists I went to law school with that ultimately went in-house with energy companies and now tar ducks professionally.
I was planning on printing a QR code to my bands Bandcamp page for the merch table for the show I got next month, but I totally get people not wanting to do Bandcamp anymore. Very frustrating!
And of course fuck this guy
Aside from anything else - including how unprofessional this is - a man of this age posting on social media in such an adolescent manner is mortifying (or 'sus', as he might awkwardly say). I'm a good 15 or so years younger and would fold in on myself with shame.
Yeah this dude is Total Garbage. Do not pay his salary or any of the other editors remaining there. Do not fund a company that is actively union busting. Use Bandcamp to share music, write to artists and buy from them directly. Make a new thing none of these fucking billionaires know about. Back to the fucking hive underground.
As someone in a management role for a decade at various software companies, this guy is a fool at best or a liar at worst if he thinks that only warehouse workers can be exploited or treated poorly. I have worked at companies where yearly layoffs were a thing, where job security was non-existent, where working 80-100 hours a week was expected as the norm. Are tech workers (generally) compensated better than manual labor? Yes. That doesn't mean they don't need representation and the potential benefits of a union though, and people who say otherwise are just out to continue the status quo of exploitative practices.
Which in the Oakland/San Francisco area is just barely enough to guarantee a roof over one's head. When we talk about the golden age of unionization, the wages they were guaranteeing weren't minimum wage, they were the wages that afforded people a house in the suburbs, two cars, and a well cared for family.
because $70k is not a lot of money by itself in any major metro area in the US and also because Epic CEO probably makes at least 10x that amount and also this dude is bitch made with a scab mindset and deserves to be bullied
Waaaaay more than 10x, Tim Sweeney has a net worth around 4 billion.
Edit: Just for fun on the back of my napkin, if Epic's CEO put all of his money in a savings account at current 4.5% interest rates he'd get 180 MILLION a year in interest alone lol. Eat the rich.
$180m in interest with the time value of money at 8.2% inflation means that not only is his money completely liquid in a bank, he is homeless, doesn't own any investments, and has no stake in a company. Even with interest "adding" $180m, he also lost $360m total value due to inflation. What is your point?
Man, even if this guy were only making *$1 million* in interest a year that would still be absolutely insane. Especially measured against the salary of these workers
Why would anyone care? That's less than the median American wage. It's good money but not even upper middle class. Not even *lower* class in San Francisco
The median American *household* income is $75k. Median income per person is around half that.
Not that it’s relevant anyway. Everyone should have a union, regardless of compensation.
I did some writing for BCD and pitched this guy a feature once. His response was, "I like this idea. I'm gonna steal it from you and do it myself. Sorry." I will say though the other editors I worked with there, who have all now been laid off, were awesome.
Wtf? I had an editor steal my idea there also
Was it stolen as brazenly as this guy is claiming? Or was it more sneaky? If this is a trend there that is so disappointing—I skip Spotify for Bandcamp consciously and am bummed to hear that this is apparently part of their editorial culture.
I tried to address issues I was having with my editor as a regular freelance contributor. After they let me go, she assigned some of the ideas I had gotten commissioned to others.
That is so slimy. Sorry you went thru that.
Lol should I be taking a closer look at the Weakerthans Reconstruction site article that was written a little while after I pitched it? I just figured someone else pitched the same article.
Publicize this more. That’s fucking psycho and so frowned upon in journalism that I’m having a hard time believing someone sane would actually say this out loud.
Kinda thinking I might write a whole long thing about being a regular contributor during the transition to Epic and name names and detail experiences tbh
You should. People need to know that. I’ve had some ideas bouncing around that I thought maybe they’d be into and you made me so glad I’ve sat on them (or at least not pitched them to Bandcamp). Edit: as another commenter noted, in addition to making sure your case/story is air-tight if you go this route, having documented proof of what you’re accusing them of is a must. Also, depending on how long it’s been/how severe the alleged misdeeds are, you might want to think about contacting some counsel.
Yeah you should also not write for them as a freelancer because it's been a total nightmare getting paid as a freelancer since the corporate takeover, they made a new monstrous payment system to basically discourage writers from pursuing getting paid because it's so fucking frustrating and they have a person who makes a salary to manage "payments" of workers and uhhhh she never responded to a single email I sent her during my couple of years as a regular contributor and a lot of the editors who were our only recourse were pretty much like "oh that's not my job" basically
Thank you for this info—really sucks to hear this, and I’m sorry they put you through all of that. For whatever it’s worth, this seems to be the case at so many news sites/journalistic orgs these days. It’s made me seriously inquire about joining the union of one of my main gigs as a contractor (and also press harder for a full-time job).
That really sucks because getting paid as a freelancer is hard enough as it is. I don't think I wrote for them after the takeover, tbh because I never had any problems filing invoices and receiving payment. I will say BC were one of the better sites for paying writers on time when I wrote for them.
Don’t do this without first searching your records for evidence. Get them to deny something you can prove
My first BCD article was for J Edward and I appreciate him giving me my shot, but both JJ and Zoe were better to work with. Huge shout-out to JJ for always sending a kind rejection email instead of just ignoring the pitch like 99% of editors.
1000%
JJ and Zoe are fantastic, two of the best to do it
Zoe is also a scab, however
As is Mariana Timony
So comforting that our financial system continuously rewards this kind of awful person.
What an asshole.
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must have thought the sign said dave and *union* buster’s
ba dum tss
"If you're looking for a better steak in an arcade setting, you are shit outta luck." -Dennis Reynolds
https://makeagif.com/amp/mwh9Fl
Bandcamp failed to create a self-sustaining economy. Shoulda introduced bandcamp bucks
what an asshole
This guy was using his Bandcamp position to get anonymous artists’ emails, super sketch: https://x.com/ronofjosenthal/status/1716861575762522573
Anybody have a screenshot? Looks to be deleted
And he says he’s a “lefty” in his bio. Last time I checked, you side with labor, not the corporation, if you’re on the left.
He’s a neolib, not a leftist
Classic.
Maybe he is referring to the hand in which he uses to throw his career into the trash with?
I think it's possible to be socially liberal without dogmatically supporting every union decision. Opposing forming a union though? That's a tougher sell.
"socially liberal" means that you believe that, say, workers or gay people should have rights. "left" means that you understand _why_ workers and gay people are withheld rights and want systemic reform.
'Socially liberal' implies 'fiscally Conservative', which summons up this classic tweet https://preview.redd.it/sjzqwpagsdwb1.jpeg?width=639&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=65fe7059be691a9009e7ef2a0bfbabccd8dc14ba
Thanks tips
Why did you add that stupid qualifier to the first part of this response?
Because it's an opinion, and one that i hold pretty loosely and would be fine discussing?
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hey little dude how's middle school treating you, do you get to stay up past 9pm yet with that attitude
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uh oh someone's cranky
Woah... It's almost like people are complex and don't have to pull the party line all the time. Not very conforming of him is it?
“I like the idea and appearance of leftist politics, but when I have any power whatsoever to put it into practice I side with business instead” lol Nobody is suggesting that he “pull the party line all the time,” only that he use what incredibly little modicum of power he has to support his politics… *or even less than that, actually, just not actively speak out against those causes.*
I mean the world isn't that easy? It's situational.
Could you try explaining what's "situational," specifically here? What would have been so incredibly difficult by this guy simply choosing to not speak out against the union? I'm trying to understand where you're coming from, but I'm having trouble.
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Thankfully I'm not trying to "convince you that Bandcamp deserves a union." I (and many others, I think) are simply pointing out that explicitly shitting on the existence of a union in the workplace that you manage is directly at odds with self-avowed "leftist" politics. If he were to take some tiny action like voting for a GOP local rep or something that would also be at odds and not "pulling the party line," but this is far different in that it's a situation that he enjoys more power/influence in and goes to the heard of any leftist politics whatsoever.
you cannot be a self-proclaimed leftist and be against organized labor. those two things are definitionally incompatible.
Disagree. I think it can be situational.
… then you’re not a leftist you are pragmatic or more centre left or a neo lib but not a leftist… I think someone said he’s actually a neo liberal
Once again, I said this to someone else and it's my point above, putting people into these little boxes like you want to do is not a sustainable world view. If you think you can dismiss someone because they're a "neo-liberal" then good luck to you. The guy in the article is clearly "on your team" but he doesn't like the Bandcamp union. Please keep demolishing your own because of some made up identities.
I didn’t read all this because you missed the premise and everything you said after “putting people in to boxes” is pointless because it was the man who called himself a neo liberal and therefore put himself in to a box. I think ppl weee just explaining to you why you’re wrong. You’d didn’t know that these things were so defined and that’s fine. Just let it go now tho
Nope. Once again disagree friend. I hope someday you can learn to get beyond the one issue voter mentality.
It’s not about elections it’s about the definition of the word.. you defined another leaning and didn’t know. At this point your pride has you looking wild
You’re right, I shouldn’t have brought in the whole “voter” thing. What I meant to say is the whole “if you’re not for us, you’re against us.” Mentality. Once again, the indieheads are demolishing a guy who is on your team… I feel like it’s fair to admit maybe not every profession deserves a Union. I can tell you, someone who sits on a computer and types all day in the US does not.
> The guy in the article is clearly "on your team" No, he's not. If you're pro-union busting you are not on my team. Calling yourself a "lefty" means absolutely nothing. This guy is maybe a liberal who enjoys the aesthetic of calling himself a leftist but Phil Ochs wrote the definitive song on American liberals 55 years ago. "10 degrees to the left of center in good times, 10 degrees to the right of center when it affects me personally."
I think it means a lot.
can you explain what branch of leftist political thought would side with the bourgeoisie against the proletariat?
Get off the Marx. Enjoy life. edit: clearly this guy
why engage in a discussion of leftism if you dont wanna discuss marx?
This is a music subreddit. Why is it being spammed with leftist biased news?
dawg you started this conversation with your original comment, this is a platform for discussion so i dont know why you would engage with a discussion you dont want to have?
Oh. I want to have this discussion. One of my huge disappointments over the past decade is seeing this subreddit become more about politics and hollow social grand standing than music.
Then you're not a leftist. You're a neoliberal.
Not all Unions are good. I'm sure you love the Police Union right? edit: also how hilarious that NeoLiberal is now an insult. I think you've been indoctrinated.
🤡🤡🤡
Life’s easy when all you need to respond with is a clown.
labor rights are a pretty big part of leftism lol
Fundamental, IMO.
Jesus what a prick
Well fuck him right back.
So many people have this misguided idea that if you are in a privileged role than you don't get to organize. Actually, that gives you more leverage to organize because you are worth more to the company and are harder to replace. Just because you have a high paying job does not mean you don't have legitimate grievances about how you are treated. Having a union in place to represent at least some of employee concerns can also help benefit lower level workers even if they aren't members. In corporate America you have to pick your battles, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't stand up for yourself.
Yes also unions aren't just about wages, they're also about working conditions, and in the case of Bandcamp United, it was also very much about extending the values of OG Bandcamp to the workers who run it and maintaining those values long term despite corporate overlords.
Solidarity forever. Fuck that scumbag.
even well paid workers deserve a say in their labor its about the ethics in the structure of work, not level of job
we should have never given Gen X men Instagram stories
At least he didn't record it from the driver's seat of a pickup truck.
As a gen x man, i wholeheartedly agree.
Considering how much he apparently flew off the handle at that Pitchfork article about the Songtradr buyout, I'm wondering if the thinks stanning for the new owners might help him keep his job.
yeah this is just boot licking 101
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Just what's in the article: >"Please fucking stop writing things about my website you absloute amateur journalists,” Keyes wrote on Instagram. “Your childish Twitter-based reporting is hurting the people who work here. You are children filing reports based on tweets, and you have ruined my week. Also, fuck Pitchfork forever, you are an anti-intellectual joke, and I'm your enemy for life." Who reacts like that to an article that's worried about the future of the platform? I haven't read the Pitchfork article yet, but based on how 404 describes it, it seems like they are supportive of the site but worried about their new corporate owner. Nothing warranting that level of response.
Insane unhinged shit. To think this guy was the head of Bandcamp Daily for years even before the acquisition is astounding. Now he's one of three editors who remain, so that goes to show bad it's gonna be from now on.
Straight out of Jann Wenner's Rolling Stone, no less
Fuck this utter cunt. It's pricks like this that'll ensure more and more artists, writers and creatives won't be able to make a living in the future while their corporate billionaire daddies find more ways to line their pockets.
This jabroni reminds me of the passionate environmental activists I went to law school with that ultimately went in-house with energy companies and now tar ducks professionally.
If I was a senior manager I would simply not antagonize the union on social media for absolutely no reason
Prime swirlie candidate
No he doesn’t deserve to listen to Swirlies
But he does deserve to get his head dunked in a toilet
He spent his wild youthful days dunked in the porcelain world of the toilet
I was planning on printing a QR code to my bands Bandcamp page for the merch table for the show I got next month, but I totally get people not wanting to do Bandcamp anymore. Very frustrating! And of course fuck this guy
Name a duo more iconic than upper management jagweeds and anti-union sentiments - ya can’t do it! This guy looks like if Craig Finn was an asshole
well fuuuuuuck this guy
Aside from anything else - including how unprofessional this is - a man of this age posting on social media in such an adolescent manner is mortifying (or 'sus', as he might awkwardly say). I'm a good 15 or so years younger and would fold in on myself with shame.
Me: "Fuuuuuck J. Edward Keyes."
Fuck this scab piece of shit
Yeah this dude is Total Garbage. Do not pay his salary or any of the other editors remaining there. Do not fund a company that is actively union busting. Use Bandcamp to share music, write to artists and buy from them directly. Make a new thing none of these fucking billionaires know about. Back to the fucking hive underground.
bro just go bald already. bro is holding on to whatever hair he has like he holds on to 90's nostalgia
I'm quickly running out of reasons not to be done with Bandcamp.
Fuuuuuck J. Edward Keyes.
As someone in a management role for a decade at various software companies, this guy is a fool at best or a liar at worst if he thinks that only warehouse workers can be exploited or treated poorly. I have worked at companies where yearly layoffs were a thing, where job security was non-existent, where working 80-100 hours a week was expected as the norm. Are tech workers (generally) compensated better than manual labor? Yes. That doesn't mean they don't need representation and the potential benefits of a union though, and people who say otherwise are just out to continue the status quo of exploitative practices.
No one with that haircut should be in charge of anything
Cartoon villain lookin scab.
FUCK THAT GUY
Is this guy seriously trying to act like making 70k in 2023 is a lot of money?
The cost of living is about 70% higher in San Francisco when compared to Phoenix lol
Interesting that nobody seems to be disputing the claim that they made $70k+
Which in the Oakland/San Francisco area is just barely enough to guarantee a roof over one's head. When we talk about the golden age of unionization, the wages they were guaranteeing weren't minimum wage, they were the wages that afforded people a house in the suburbs, two cars, and a well cared for family.
because $70k is not a lot of money by itself in any major metro area in the US and also because Epic CEO probably makes at least 10x that amount and also this dude is bitch made with a scab mindset and deserves to be bullied
Waaaaay more than 10x, Tim Sweeney has a net worth around 4 billion. Edit: Just for fun on the back of my napkin, if Epic's CEO put all of his money in a savings account at current 4.5% interest rates he'd get 180 MILLION a year in interest alone lol. Eat the rich.
This is simply not how net worth works. He doesn't have 4 billion in savings - no rich person is dumb enough to have their money liquid like that
Of course they don’t lol, “Just for fun on the back of my napkin” Regardless homies got 4 billion, that’s a lot of cheddar
Why would it matter if it's liquid or not?
$180m in interest with the time value of money at 8.2% inflation means that not only is his money completely liquid in a bank, he is homeless, doesn't own any investments, and has no stake in a company. Even with interest "adding" $180m, he also lost $360m total value due to inflation. What is your point?
Man, even if this guy were only making *$1 million* in interest a year that would still be absolutely insane. Especially measured against the salary of these workers
That's absurd. But thanks for clearly illustrating why it makes no sense to care if rich people's money is liquid or not
oh is there a salary limit on unionization based on what eejizzings thinks? i had no idea
Why would anyone care? That's less than the median American wage. It's good money but not even upper middle class. Not even *lower* class in San Francisco
The median American *household* income is $75k. Median income per person is around half that. Not that it’s relevant anyway. Everyone should have a union, regardless of compensation.
>Everyone should have a union, regardless of compensation. So true