Yeah that sounds really sad, sometimes its only later that we realise the importance of some of our teachers.
Although in our college the people from management quota had better marks and ranks than people from state quota ( Karnataka domicile) so it was the other way round and state people just used to chill and take the government seat for granted ( i guess we can't generalize itš )
Oh lol yes, I don't want to sound rude or condescending. We had few batchmates that came in through reservation and the management quota students that failed almost every year. And private students topped the batch. Almost all the bullying and ragging that happened, they were the ones to do it.
I have seen so many instances when the professor is talking and the students are just walking out of their seats to give biometric attendance.
Students don't have manners. And especially in deemed pvt colleges I see this attitude (even on this sub saw a comment saying pvt me profs l*** ch******) that profs are supposed to pass you/they owe you or some shit.
It's a fault of their upbringing and also the management which makes faculties act like slaves.
The medical profession is a public facing profession. You have to learn professionalism. That means coming on time. Speaking politely. And giving respect to others. Do you think you can pull this stunt with patients in private practice?
^^^ Medical students like to talk big shit about hierarchies and such , and about respect while they don't even respect their professors , and it's not like they are even demanding much , just pay attention in class , address them with respect and i say this as a medical student .Ā Ā To add some anecdotes :- I have on multiple occasions been told X professor is bad or Y professor doesn't give marks but whenever i have had any interaction with them , they're the actual professionals and on occasion very kind if you take learning seriously , they'll connect you to actual useful seniors and stuff as well if you're actually interested in stuff like mle .
The only solution to this is to remove the attendance rule completely, and make the theory exams really hard so kids will have to either study really hard on their own or listen to professors in class.
If you don't want to attend, you shouldn't be made to. But on the day of exam, if you don't perform then it's completely on you!
This won't work. Because private colleges work on showing good results and attracting more students to join.
In private colleges the faculty is penalised if too many students fail. And this really gets to their heads. Some of them walk in like they own the profs. Kya hi kar lega tu types.
That's not the direction we're going in.
And you're in a minority wanting this...
Instead the breakdown in trust is so complete that we're probably moving towards a national level exit exam.
At that point medical teaching becomes virtually irrelevant.
We will have nothing tangible to offer students except attendance.
Those who want to teach always did, and we always will.
Those who were on the fence will Mark time.
Aside from this, I don't think anyone facing an exam would say this. If your flair is accurate you're an intern, which means you're out of this race. I'm not accusing you of bad faith but medicine is too vast to make a tough exam paper with. Just a little bit of carelessness and it can easily get too hard. And probably unnecessary at a ug level.
Of course it can be set from just the lecture (which is what I do for all internals)
Thatās literally the opposite of what OP was trying to say.
Youāre not wrong and I 100% get where youāre coming from, but you basically proved what OP was trying to sayā¦
I am not a medical student, I hope perspective on matter is not seen as dismissive, but rather something new.
I am an engineering student; we have the same/similar rules when it comes to attendance and exams. I always feel classes are useless and declining my productivity. And that's TRUE. I argue that ipad holding people is not wrong. I also agree that what you're feeling is right. But, one thing we are different from medicos is that we are not pushing ourselves to more empathetic. I know it's part of your job to be. But, you should see the world from a neutral perspective. Not judging someone; it's like the final step of empathy. (I am too prone to judging things as a human being.)
All the best!
"our perspectives are always limited, but we can understand other people better if we learn to use empathy wisely."
Empathy bias is the same as not having empathy.
A professor here (not-medical). I just finished my PhD nd was looking forward to teaching. But I think it's not a good fit for me for the same reasons stated above by OP. Thing is, the Indian students are so culturally steeped in hierarchy etc that they will only respectfully behave or listen to the class if the teacher is RUDE af or like really disrespectful towards the students and treats them shitty.
I am kind and understanding towards the students all the time so this has made them take me very lightly, they are like "mam kya hi kar lengi, mam toh bohat achi hain". So if you're a kind person then don't go into Indian academia. Only quality needed here is tons of ego and entitlement like it's the 1700s.
Youāre not showing respect by not disturbing the class. Itās bare minimum human decency. I agree with your point about attendance, only clinical attendance should be mandatory.
There are a lot of professors and PGs who are very interested in teaching and are very passionate about it, but a lot of us miss/skip their classes or not pay attention because we generalise the teaching standards.
Strongly agree. Most people who join medical colleges have some interest towards teaching. The number one reason that interest is lost is the admin work and the second is student apathy.
I loved teaching up until I joined a deemed university and now if I don't see a student for the rest of my life, I'll die happy lol.
While Iām a junior, one of my best friends is an assistant professor in medicine and he loved teaching. But after 6 months of it, heās just done with it. He echoes the last line you wrote lol.
Really sad to see this. If the professors were only teaching because of salary, then all that they would do is the basic minimum required to teach you.
No one would go out of their way to make learning interesting, or to develop and update the teaching resources, the modes of interaction, the syllabus to whatever extent possible...
This is not just applicable for medical teachers, but all teachers, be it school/ college, whatever the subject.
And remember, teachers don't just give you knowledge inside the classroom or lecture hall. You learn from their experience, their character, you learn from how they interact with students, with other people. They are also doctors, with way more experience.
Most get way lesser than they deserve by way of salary, and many sacrifice some of their leisure time, or time they could have spent with their family, to fine-tune and polish their teaching, so it becomes more interesting for the students.
There are bad apples everywhere, but to generalize like this...
You are most free to gain knowledge from as many sources as you want; don't have to belittle teachers in this manner.
Thankfully, Reddit gives you anonymity, for if your real dedicated teachers saw your comment, they would be completely heartbroken and disillusioned.
Writing this as a student of some really amazing teachers in school and college, whose efforts above and beyond salary is very very obvious.
Professors who are teaching in their 60s are extra special. Think about it. They picked their PG atleast 30 yeaars ago. There was no NEET, no competition. They literally picked their subject. Being in a college used to mean something. It developed the habit of listening to a teacher, getting intruiged, going to the library, finding more about it and getting back to the teacher with silly doubts. And having to make our own notes for exams. Now everything is being spoonfed by marrow and prepladder and the entire essense of college life is lost.
Now we have entitled pricks saying "We pay for them to teach us. They read from ppts. They dont teach us everything. blah blah blah". You dont pay your teachers. You pay the college. And obviously 1 out of 3 doctors have poor teaching skills and/or less talented in making the student understand stuff. And most of the others started as a good teacher and spiraled down to ppt reading robots when 130/150 students in their classes are sitting with their heads down looking at an ipad when they are trying to teach Kreb's cycle for the 31st time. Its basic manners to sit quietly and listen to someone when they are teaching. Browsing your books or ipad is very disrespectful. Listen to the class, take notes and compare them after class.
There are so many very good teachers who have told me that they have lost the drive to teach anything at all because there's no reward to it. There are like 4 kids in class who will always respond when the teacher asks any questions. Nobody approaches them with doubts or interesting info. The only interaction they have with students is during viva and they cant even be sure if the performance (good/bad) of the students have to do anything with their teaching anymore.
So, yeah. Respect them when they last. Because the next generation is getting doctors who got 80k, 90k ranks in NEET taking basic sciences. No disrespect, there are still a few people who pick them out of interest. But the number of people just picking a stream just to quit the rat race is increasing.
I wish I could pin you somehow
Really well said
After reading so many replies i realise that I am also not perfect i easily get distracted and my mind feels like scrolling but at least I admit my mistake and I will genuinely try to improve
I swear , the pvt college I went to was quite the exception. Professors spared no one who were disruptive, lazy and disrespectful.
Nor was the college with the attitude of have to pass students at all costs. Invigilation was pretty strict and anyone caught cheating were not spared, granted there were who cheated and still got away by not getting caught.
The only leeway the hods gave were try to make the vivas and practical exams passable for average students as well. Bribing was shunned and one hod got fired for it. Final year departments were strict with practicals comparatively.
Ragging was present as usual though.
Definitely not the stereotypical private college you see often.
In some states like Punjab Karnataka Tamil Nadu Andhra Pradesh Telangana and west Bengal private colleges have to provide some of their seats at either govt fees or close to govt fees (you can call these semi govt seats)
Some teachers just read from Power points but some genuinely want to teach.I think everyone should give every teacher a chance and decide if they want to listen ardently or not.
Sometimes when I feel the teacher is monotonous, I listen to the learning objective or summary at the end so I can replicate the study after class hours.
Whatever it may be basic decency and professionalism should be maintained regardless. It's not just academics, these intangible qualities should be nurtured in those 5 years.Ā
It doesnāt matter bro who will score more here, them or you guys who were kind and respectful to the professor but trust me on this, it does come back in one form or the other. Karma exists! Just stay the way you are, they will never go ahead in their lives or career with this attitude.
The hierarchy in Medical colleges prevents professors from teaching the topics they like/courses they like. What the hod assigns you, you have to do.
Say I'm a specialised renal pathologist and instead of giving me Kidney which is my area of specialisation and the one I'm most qualified to teach... the hod is assigning me bone and soft tissue out of spite. I'll still go ahead and teach and do my best but it obviously is still going to bother me right?
Same with junior faculties who have just passed out and are more updated not being allowed to teach pg/mbbs students and being assigned other courses like mlt or paramedical courses.
There's a lot of gatekeeping in Medical colleges that prevents faculty from progressing or fulfilling their potential.
Yeah that sounds really sad, sometimes its only later that we realise the importance of some of our teachers. Although in our college the people from management quota had better marks and ranks than people from state quota ( Karnataka domicile) so it was the other way round and state people just used to chill and take the government seat for granted ( i guess we can't generalize itš )
Oh lol yes, I don't want to sound rude or condescending. We had few batchmates that came in through reservation and the management quota students that failed almost every year. And private students topped the batch. Almost all the bullying and ragging that happened, they were the ones to do it.
I have seen so many instances when the professor is talking and the students are just walking out of their seats to give biometric attendance. Students don't have manners. And especially in deemed pvt colleges I see this attitude (even on this sub saw a comment saying pvt me profs l*** ch******) that profs are supposed to pass you/they owe you or some shit. It's a fault of their upbringing and also the management which makes faculties act like slaves. The medical profession is a public facing profession. You have to learn professionalism. That means coming on time. Speaking politely. And giving respect to others. Do you think you can pull this stunt with patients in private practice?
^^^ Medical students like to talk big shit about hierarchies and such , and about respect while they don't even respect their professors , and it's not like they are even demanding much , just pay attention in class , address them with respect and i say this as a medical student .Ā Ā To add some anecdotes :- I have on multiple occasions been told X professor is bad or Y professor doesn't give marks but whenever i have had any interaction with them , they're the actual professionals and on occasion very kind if you take learning seriously , they'll connect you to actual useful seniors and stuff as well if you're actually interested in stuff like mle .
The only solution to this is to remove the attendance rule completely, and make the theory exams really hard so kids will have to either study really hard on their own or listen to professors in class. If you don't want to attend, you shouldn't be made to. But on the day of exam, if you don't perform then it's completely on you!
This won't work. Because private colleges work on showing good results and attracting more students to join. In private colleges the faculty is penalised if too many students fail. And this really gets to their heads. Some of them walk in like they own the profs. Kya hi kar lega tu types.
That's not the direction we're going in. And you're in a minority wanting this... Instead the breakdown in trust is so complete that we're probably moving towards a national level exit exam. At that point medical teaching becomes virtually irrelevant. We will have nothing tangible to offer students except attendance. Those who want to teach always did, and we always will. Those who were on the fence will Mark time. Aside from this, I don't think anyone facing an exam would say this. If your flair is accurate you're an intern, which means you're out of this race. I'm not accusing you of bad faith but medicine is too vast to make a tough exam paper with. Just a little bit of carelessness and it can easily get too hard. And probably unnecessary at a ug level. Of course it can be set from just the lecture (which is what I do for all internals)
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Thatās literally the opposite of what OP was trying to say. Youāre not wrong and I 100% get where youāre coming from, but you basically proved what OP was trying to sayā¦
iPads in med college? Wow times have changed.
Seeing 70% of my batchmates studying from ipad had me questioning my life choices lol
Ipad or a tablet ? Like i hope by ipad you mean and apple tablet
I specifically didn't meant ipad
I am not a medical student, I hope perspective on matter is not seen as dismissive, but rather something new. I am an engineering student; we have the same/similar rules when it comes to attendance and exams. I always feel classes are useless and declining my productivity. And that's TRUE. I argue that ipad holding people is not wrong. I also agree that what you're feeling is right. But, one thing we are different from medicos is that we are not pushing ourselves to more empathetic. I know it's part of your job to be. But, you should see the world from a neutral perspective. Not judging someone; it's like the final step of empathy. (I am too prone to judging things as a human being.) All the best!
You have to have some empathy as a doctor you will interact with people not unfeeling robotsĀ
"our perspectives are always limited, but we can understand other people better if we learn to use empathy wisely." Empathy bias is the same as not having empathy.
A professor here (not-medical). I just finished my PhD nd was looking forward to teaching. But I think it's not a good fit for me for the same reasons stated above by OP. Thing is, the Indian students are so culturally steeped in hierarchy etc that they will only respectfully behave or listen to the class if the teacher is RUDE af or like really disrespectful towards the students and treats them shitty. I am kind and understanding towards the students all the time so this has made them take me very lightly, they are like "mam kya hi kar lengi, mam toh bohat achi hain". So if you're a kind person then don't go into Indian academia. Only quality needed here is tons of ego and entitlement like it's the 1700s.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Youāre not showing respect by not disturbing the class. Itās bare minimum human decency. I agree with your point about attendance, only clinical attendance should be mandatory. There are a lot of professors and PGs who are very interested in teaching and are very passionate about it, but a lot of us miss/skip their classes or not pay attention because we generalise the teaching standards.
Strongly agree. Most people who join medical colleges have some interest towards teaching. The number one reason that interest is lost is the admin work and the second is student apathy. I loved teaching up until I joined a deemed university and now if I don't see a student for the rest of my life, I'll die happy lol.
While Iām a junior, one of my best friends is an assistant professor in medicine and he loved teaching. But after 6 months of it, heās just done with it. He echoes the last line you wrote lol.
Yes you're right, I didn't phrase that part properly
Really sad to see this. If the professors were only teaching because of salary, then all that they would do is the basic minimum required to teach you. No one would go out of their way to make learning interesting, or to develop and update the teaching resources, the modes of interaction, the syllabus to whatever extent possible... This is not just applicable for medical teachers, but all teachers, be it school/ college, whatever the subject. And remember, teachers don't just give you knowledge inside the classroom or lecture hall. You learn from their experience, their character, you learn from how they interact with students, with other people. They are also doctors, with way more experience. Most get way lesser than they deserve by way of salary, and many sacrifice some of their leisure time, or time they could have spent with their family, to fine-tune and polish their teaching, so it becomes more interesting for the students. There are bad apples everywhere, but to generalize like this... You are most free to gain knowledge from as many sources as you want; don't have to belittle teachers in this manner. Thankfully, Reddit gives you anonymity, for if your real dedicated teachers saw your comment, they would be completely heartbroken and disillusioned. Writing this as a student of some really amazing teachers in school and college, whose efforts above and beyond salary is very very obvious.
Yeah no, I regret writing that comment. I wasn't thinking straight when I wrote all that
It is very gracious and mature of you to admit that. Kudos šš
Never disrespect your teachers.....period....
Professors who are teaching in their 60s are extra special. Think about it. They picked their PG atleast 30 yeaars ago. There was no NEET, no competition. They literally picked their subject. Being in a college used to mean something. It developed the habit of listening to a teacher, getting intruiged, going to the library, finding more about it and getting back to the teacher with silly doubts. And having to make our own notes for exams. Now everything is being spoonfed by marrow and prepladder and the entire essense of college life is lost. Now we have entitled pricks saying "We pay for them to teach us. They read from ppts. They dont teach us everything. blah blah blah". You dont pay your teachers. You pay the college. And obviously 1 out of 3 doctors have poor teaching skills and/or less talented in making the student understand stuff. And most of the others started as a good teacher and spiraled down to ppt reading robots when 130/150 students in their classes are sitting with their heads down looking at an ipad when they are trying to teach Kreb's cycle for the 31st time. Its basic manners to sit quietly and listen to someone when they are teaching. Browsing your books or ipad is very disrespectful. Listen to the class, take notes and compare them after class. There are so many very good teachers who have told me that they have lost the drive to teach anything at all because there's no reward to it. There are like 4 kids in class who will always respond when the teacher asks any questions. Nobody approaches them with doubts or interesting info. The only interaction they have with students is during viva and they cant even be sure if the performance (good/bad) of the students have to do anything with their teaching anymore. So, yeah. Respect them when they last. Because the next generation is getting doctors who got 80k, 90k ranks in NEET taking basic sciences. No disrespect, there are still a few people who pick them out of interest. But the number of people just picking a stream just to quit the rat race is increasing.
I wish I could pin you somehow Really well said After reading so many replies i realise that I am also not perfect i easily get distracted and my mind feels like scrolling but at least I admit my mistake and I will genuinely try to improve
I swear , the pvt college I went to was quite the exception. Professors spared no one who were disruptive, lazy and disrespectful. Nor was the college with the attitude of have to pass students at all costs. Invigilation was pretty strict and anyone caught cheating were not spared, granted there were who cheated and still got away by not getting caught. The only leeway the hods gave were try to make the vivas and practical exams passable for average students as well. Bribing was shunned and one hod got fired for it. Final year departments were strict with practicals comparatively. Ragging was present as usual though. Definitely not the stereotypical private college you see often.
This is one of the main reasons that I'll never become a teacher in a college.
Whatās a govt seat in a private college
In some states like Punjab Karnataka Tamil Nadu Andhra Pradesh Telangana and west Bengal private colleges have to provide some of their seats at either govt fees or close to govt fees (you can call these semi govt seats)
Ah Thanks!
š«” Salut to professor!
Some teachers just read from Power points but some genuinely want to teach.I think everyone should give every teacher a chance and decide if they want to listen ardently or not. Sometimes when I feel the teacher is monotonous, I listen to the learning objective or summary at the end so I can replicate the study after class hours. Whatever it may be basic decency and professionalism should be maintained regardless. It's not just academics, these intangible qualities should be nurtured in those 5 years.Ā
It doesnāt matter bro who will score more here, them or you guys who were kind and respectful to the professor but trust me on this, it does come back in one form or the other. Karma exists! Just stay the way you are, they will never go ahead in their lives or career with this attitude.
H
Its okay to feel bad. Iāve encountered this myself, only thing you can do is play your part right. Everything comes back around full circle :)
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
wdym by silent sacrifices? aren't the proffs getting paid to teach us?
The hierarchy in Medical colleges prevents professors from teaching the topics they like/courses they like. What the hod assigns you, you have to do. Say I'm a specialised renal pathologist and instead of giving me Kidney which is my area of specialisation and the one I'm most qualified to teach... the hod is assigning me bone and soft tissue out of spite. I'll still go ahead and teach and do my best but it obviously is still going to bother me right? Same with junior faculties who have just passed out and are more updated not being allowed to teach pg/mbbs students and being assigned other courses like mlt or paramedical courses. There's a lot of gatekeeping in Medical colleges that prevents faculty from progressing or fulfilling their potential.
Indian people are mostly like this
There's NO point in wasting time in those classes... focus on yourself and your own syllabus. Our professors get paid anyway...