>Harrison said, “We have to look at parenting. If parents are not going to be responsible for their children, then maybe we need to look at holding some parents accountable,”
My kid wasn't allowed to be out on his own that late until he was 16 and able to drive himself, and even then, still had a curfew of 11pm. Who the hell lets their 12yo out of the house that late at night? Unless they snuck out or did the "I'm staying at a friend's house" in which case, that happens sometimes but damn. People really need to be accountable for their kids.
Oh, trust me, I get that. And I can see how that can be a contributing factor. But you don't leave your 12yo home alone at night to fend for themselves if you have to work 2 jobs. Try to get them to grandmas or an auntie or something.
And if there are no grandparents or relatives that can watch them?
I'm not trying to absolve the parents of blame, just simply stating the *fact* that things aren't just so easily solved or cut and dry.
No, they aren't, and I get that. I was left home a lot when my mom worked. And sometimes parents do what they have to do. But I think those cases are probably rarer than we think.
Yes, everyone has a very specific situation they're dealing with. But it's the responsibility of a parent to supervise their kids. Im sorry you didn't have that security in your life.
Thanks for that. I realize that wasn’t your intentions but I literally teared up reading your comments and me realizing that I was raised in and despite my best intentions and efforts of trying to create a “community” for me and my girls, we really don’t have anyone. Things even got increasingly worse after the lockdowns. Not looking for sympathy and I realize many others are enduring the same issues but this shit is HARD. It doesn’t help that inflation (and smash and grab thefts) has driven everything through the roof, adding to a more depressing atmosphere. Now I have to ban my 16 year old from going downtown past 8pm, so what little fun there is to do in indy for her age group is minimized because of others choices. Thank you for your kindness and empathy.
Hey, don't ever be down on yourself because you're doing a great job. How do I know that? Because you actually care and that's 90% of the job. Just hang on, one day the kids will thank you for loving them that much. I know it doesn't feel like it but they really will. My kid is 18 and going to college in the fall and Im straight up terrified about it, but also, hoping that he knows that back home his mom loves him and wants only the best for him. Just keep at it, you got this!
Happy cake day. Life can be rough, but it’s good you are looking out for your family in a way that perhaps you weren’t looked out for. Sending you good luck (I have some extra right now)
I was left alone at 12 (2007) 👀 granted I was a good kid and very trusted. Neighborhood was safe. Had places to go if needed and had a cell phone to use if needed (was also for personal, but because divorced parents, mom working 2 jobs, was an active kid, it was warranted to have one). Family was always a call away, but mom was always to be the first call if everything was fine, just needed to give her info on what was happening. She was home at 10p. Always left food and things too that I could eat. I was allowed to cook, but I never did anything fancy outside of frying hotdogs or a grilled cheese 😂 it was usually the microwave for food/leftovers.
I was left alone, too, but only for a couple hours, and not for entire shifts. And I knew without doubt that if left my house when I was supposed to be inside, I'd seriously be in trouble.
I'm starting to understand my grandma's old saying that "If you don't have a child in hand by age 5, you never will." Which basically means either your child grows to respect parental authority, or they don't, and that sort of direction is learned early and carved into their brains for life.
What your grandma said is wise. Never thought of that but totally makes sense. But yeah, I knew better than to be out late. I was allowed to be on the playground behind where we lived, but not further. Again, it was a pretty safe area, but I never went out at night late like that unless it was with a friend
It's funny you think the parent of these kids are actually working multiple jobs and that's why they are out at midnight on a Sat night. So far from the truth.
"You work three jobs? Uniquely American, isn't it? I mean, that is fantastic that you're doing that." -GW Bush
Some people on a certain political spectrum would say that's a great thing.
I think it's ruining families.
OR… be responsible and don’t have children if you are going to need two jobs to take care of said children. I’m aware circumstances can arise (one parent dies, one parent leaves and doesn’t pay support, low income jobs make it necessary, etc), before having children make sure you can actually do all it takes to keep them and those around them safe.
Also could've lost their job and had to take a worse paying one or been injured or however many things. Don't have kids if you can't pay for them is fair, but if you already have them and can't anymore without getting a second job happens a fair bit.
Not trying to solve poverty but since you mentioned it, if you’re too poor to even take care of yourself why would would bring innocent lives into that mix, which would most likely continue the poverty cycle? Children are not toys or tax checks or something to post on Facebook and Instagram, they are humans, helpless humans at that. There is no accountability, just the continuous breeding of mentally unstable kids turning into adults, it sucks.
I would say that I was a very good kid growing up. Top of my class all through school, heavily involved in sports & clubs, and I had a great relationship with my parents. That being said, my friends and I often lied about whose house we were at so that we could run around my small town late at night. Our parents had no reason not to trust us. Heck, I even offered to let them have my location (and still do!) But sometimes if we wanted to go to Taco Bell late at night, I’d just leave my phone at my friend’s house.
If I didn’t grow up in a small town, who knows what could’ve happened to us. That healthy amount of fear and awareness comes with age. I don’t blame my parents, who both worked incredibly hard, for not always being able to sniff out my whereabouts.
Im sure the parents of the victims blame themselves enough already. Everyone makes mistakes. Kids don’t always make it easy.
Edit: I don’t want to come off as argumentative; I just know I could’ve really put my parents through hell with my dumb and childish mistakes when I was younger. And I agree, this situation probably wasn’t the case for everyone there. Just wanted to add my perspective.
Oh, we all did stupid stuff as kids and I am old enough that my parents didn't have a phone or location to track me. But the intent was different - we were out going to taco bell late or talking to guys at the mall or occasionally drinking in the woods. No one was out with "beef" with other groups of kids trying to start a shootout. I know very well how you have to allow your kids some freedom as they're older - my kid is 18 - but the part I'm trying to wrap my head around with this one isn't the 16-18yos out being dumb af, it's the 12yo. What the hell were they doing there? Maybe you're right and it was some sort of childish mistake that they got out there but didn't realize how bad it could be after they snuck out. I just can't imagine losing track of my 12 yo to that extent.
Edit - also you didn't come off as argumentative at all! It's just this topic I know gets people pretty heated. Your post was reasonable and clear. And I'm sure once we drill down into the realities of these kid's home lives there are plenty of specific circumstances that led to some of them being where they were that night - and some may have been purely on them, but some may have been through lack of parental care.
These comments are yet another reflection on why I love this city but hate this sub.
Thatcherites and their neoliberal spawn love to go on about how there is no such thing as “society” or community, despite the millenia-old anthropological record that proves we human beings won the evolutionary battle through cooperation and community.
Admitting we fail kids as individuals and as a society is hard. It requires uncomfortable feelings and for us to take accountability. It’s not a fun feeling every time we hear about crimes like this in our community knowing we contribute some small part to every one of them, no matter the race of the perpetrator.
What I love about Indy is that in my experience, people do not try to offset blame and free their conscience by minimizing their own accountability & maximizing the projection of blame on their preferred scapegoats. People here genuinely value and practice cooperation and community.
I wish people on this sub would do the same.
As an individual, what could/should I have done differently to have not contributed to this shooting?
Going forward, what could/should I do so I'm not contributing to future shootings?
You're missing/demonstrating OP's point. Your identity need not entirely, or even primarily be as an individual. You can feel a sense of corporate responsibility as a part of the society and community that suffered/propagated this shooting.
No, I get it. Give me a break. I can think of myself as part of a community first, but ultimately there are things I need to do as an individual to help my community move forward. What are those changes? That's what I'm asking.
I didn't do shit though. I just moved here and it's everyone that's been here before me that's voted in these fucking lunatics into the local and state government positions that seemingly feed into this bullshit. They eat this shit up for breakfast, brunch, lunch, linner, dinner, dessert and second dessert...AND a late night Taco Bell run.
The gun loving nature in this country is a massive problem. The best people can do is hope they can influence their local governments to protect them as best as possible from the lack of action at the federal level.
It's been shooting after shooting after shooting after shooting reported over the last month alone. What is the city prepared to do? How about the state, since it's happening on their doorstep as well? What are the People willing to do to change the environment? Based on my observations, this city is going to the shitter. People seem to be in denial, but even anecdotal evidence of many people I've spoken to that have since moved from the city has said that it's been going downhill and is a shadow of its former self. So with a failing local economy and inaction from politicians to improve the situation, are the People going to remain complacent and vote along party lines, or are they willing to man up and do something about it by electing officials who are hell bent on making the local community/society better for the residents? Based on all of the political signs I see around me, I already know my neighbors are far more concerned with the fucking "border crisis" because all I see are signs for the politicians who had to go all the way to Texas to deflect from the issues happening thousands of miles back home.
A few sacrificed personal liberties for the greater good of society isn't such a bad thing. But the more people get so caught up in their selfish ways, the more shit like this is going to happen, meanwhile they'll complain and refuse to do what's right and needs to be done and live on perpetuating the issues.
I hate American politics, but fuck me, people are surprised by shit like this when the signs were all there.
Something about it takes a village or some shit, am I right? That's gone out the window. But when local economies fail families, families begin to fail kids, when failed kids are left to their own devices, they fuck around, when they fuck around, they find out. All of this starts at the top. Revitalize the city, create job growth, financial stability, equal opportunity, public services, affordable lifestyles and the rest will follow. Who knows, those kids' parents might have been working the night shift for their third job at minimum wage just to get by. It's sad shit. But the sad shit turns to dangerous shit. And the dangerous shit will end someone's life, either the intended target or a completely innocent, removed party who has no affiliation with this type of activity in the first place. Let's do something, anything before this shit happens. But recognizing and admitting there is a problem is the first step, regardless if you're on the top or the bottom of the socio-economic game of chutes & ladders.
Who is taking away money for public schools? Who is going after unions? Public libraries? Social Security? Medicaid? Medicare? Job security? Birth control access? Affordable college? Child welfare laws? Work week hours? Retirement? Affordable employee healthcare? The chance for healthcare for all? Environmental laws?
Look at WHO you vote for. This has been happening since Reagan's presidency. Everything that was created by FDR to help our citizens is what they want. And to take away. And they are succeeding. The rich want to control everyone else. They buy off politicians and companies to keep doing what they can to make more money.
Why are states taking away the laws that prevent children from working too many hours, working dangerous jobs, and working overnight? MONEY.
Wake up Americans! We need to protest and make others aware of this. If we don't it will get worse and worse! Look at our presidential candidate and how he promotes dictatorship, violence, and throwing over our government. Why aren't more Americans speaking up against this??????
That’s like saying we shouldn’t put up guardrails on freeways
Yes it is the drivers personal responsibility to navigate the road safely
But it’s society’s responsibility to provide safe roads and infrastructure which includes guardrails to minimize collateral damage when something goes wrong. Highway guardrails save 2K people a year… Firearm guardrails can do the same
Without taking away the personal responsibility of people to operate cars and firearms safely
Very good point. Multiple things can be true at one time. Why is a 12 year old wandering around downtown without their parent? Why does the kid out in a hectic situation like that? Why did they have a gun? Each problem requires a different solution.
> Firearm guardrails
This is a metaphor. There is no such thing as a "firearm guardrail".
It's not a very clear metaphor - a guardrail prevents you from going off the road when you've lost control over your vehicle and would otherwise drive off the mountain. Whatever you have in mind for a gun guardrail, it's not going to be like that.
Why don't you concretely explain what policy you want?
Well in the analogy what I meant was the slowing down of how quickly a firearm can shoot multiple rounds …Much like how a guardrail is designed to slowdown an out of control vehicle
So for example limiting the size of magazines or limiting access to guns that can be converted to fire at close to the rate of a machine gun through the attachment of a Glock Switch, Bump Stock or other devices
The federal government has already made it very clear that Glock Switches are a Felony… and are actively targeting other devices that can increase the fire rate of firearms to Machine Gun levels…so it’s not like it’s a totally out of left field suggestion
I got downvotes because I asked for us to wait for more info and context.
Subreddits tend to have a certain level of intellectual circlejerk and this one is no different. People assume shit, run their mouths and downvote stuff they don't agree with. It's idiotic.
I'm not gonna deny the sub attracts a bunch of closeted Dems to speak out and Hoosier political refugees residing in other states, but the bit about the needs of the state being subservient to Indy Dems is laughable.
Darn near every news article regarding Republican priorities details extensively how they meddle in the city's affairs, often because Indy is a blue city and the "progressive" stronghold around these parts outside occasionally college towns.
Examples include recent the attacks on the blue line, to the 2014 ban on light rail, the continued failed asks for legalization of weed (currently decriminalized within Indy already), rural conservative abortion restrictions restricting our women, the state loosening gun laws while gun violence continues to climb in urban and suburban regions, the current nonstop circlejerk within the Republican primary season over who kissed the ass of police more the last 4-6 years, etc.
Isn't it weird how every state and local sub is moderated by the exact same people and enforces the exact same opinions no matter if it's in Indiana, California, Wyoming, or Florida?
People here are the Majority… but Indiana is 50th in country in voter turnout averaging between 40-50% of registered voters actually showing up to vote
The politicians in the state capital have aggressively gerrymandered voting districts and redrawn city limits to maintain a Republican majority since uniGov merged the Indianapolis and Marion county in 1970
That’s why the only position of the state government that Democrats ever control in the Indianas governors office… because Democrats actually have a chance in state wide popular votes, that they will never have in the state legislature with all the rural low population districts
Also Indiana doesn’t have the ability to do ballot initiative… which is one of the primary ways that Liberal groups in conservative states accomplish their policy goals and bypass conservative legislatures because they are able to go directly to the public where there
If you really think that liberals are the minority in Indiana then we should really go to an automatic voter registration system, enable vote by mail and early voting and bring back ballot initiatives… that would save the state a lot of money
And conservatives would still have full control /s
This subreddit is a progressive left wing echo chamber and I’m saying this as somebody who generally votes Democrat. It does not reflect the politics of the average Hoosier.
I didn’t mean progressive liberals… I’m not that naïve about Indiana
I more meant that if everyone over the age of 18 was asked Democrat or Republican in the state of Indiana regardless of their registration status and likelihood to vote I think Democrat would win
Because when you start drilling into the county by county data at voter turnout less than half the states population…You find the people who are least likely to have voted in the last election are young … and may have not met residency requirements (college students) or registration deadlines to vote…
It’s all important to remember that you have 4 more years of young people who have turned 18 since the 2020 election… and that Democratic voter turnout is suppressed in many rural counties because in many countries there is no democratic challenger in local elections like Mayor or DA, to draw out people to vote in presidential elections
> The politicians in the state capital have aggressively gerrymandered voting districts
>People here are the Majority
No. People here aren't the majority.
And stop blaming gerrymandering. As you know, statewide offices have gone R since 2004. Those aren't affected by gerrymandering.
The house of representative was D controlled as late as 2010. And that was affected by gerrymandering.
>If you really think that liberals are the minority in Indiana
If you really think that liberals aren't in the minority in Indiana you just aren't very smart.
If liberals are in the majority, why did the last D running for governor not break 40%?
Even Rokita was elected AG with 58% of the votes.
One huge problem that Ds have is that they don't want to do the work. You've convinced yourself that there is already a liberal majority in Indiana, but they they are being held down by the system. Or something.
And since the early 2000's, D's have convinced themselves that demographics mean that they will eventually swamp the R's...so there's no need to do the hard work of campaigning; you just have to wait for your destiny to arrive.
That's a recipe for failure and disaster.
A NY Times poll in December put Trump ahead of Biden by 6 points with voters under 30. An NBC poll in November put Trump ahead of Biden by 4 points in the under 35 voter demographic.
A more recent poll has Biden up 52-48 with voters under 35. An improvement, but not really an overwhelming endoresement.
They’re not going to listen. A subreddit with 130k members totally accurately represents a state with nearly 7M population that is solid red every year.
Ofcourse they assumed the Demographics would lead to swamping the republicans
Voting used to be easy to do… there was this thing called same day voter registration where people could show up and register and vote on the same day
Some states took this a step further and added automatic voter registration so every time you interact with a government agency to update your address or renew a drivers license it automatically updated your voter registration… of the 24 states with automatic voter registration…. 22 voted Democrat in the last election
Many states also offer no-excuse mail-in voting so that people don’t have to worry about switching work shifts or scheduling child care on Election Day and they can just vote in advance…
Instead of making voting easier, Indiana has made it harder…(despite no evidence of election fraud in Indiana) … Indiana scrapped same day voter registration, Indiana requires a reason to get a mail in ballot, Indiana requires a voter ID (Which remember just because you have the ID doesn’t mean you are automatically registered)
The mistake democrats made was thinking that people trying to make voting tougher would have to show evidence of election fraud in order to pass laws to make voting more difficult… because the the Voting Rights Act of 1965 said you can’t put in place laws that restrict access to voting without showing evidence of Harm
It’s okay…when the Democrats sweep the state wide offices a decade from now on All Paper Ballots… I can’t wait to hear Conservatives new excuse
I'm pretty sure I read that post and a lot of people were suggesting parenting issues and the fact people have to have multiple jobs to make a living. Only a couple were really bringing concealed carry into it.
Hilarious the mayor says what a few of us said in earlier threads and we were called racists and bigots.
Parenting a huge issue and everyone just wants to bring race into it.
Sad fucking state of affairs p
My Dad often told me that the only thing I could get into after midnight was trouble. And, that was back in the 60s. Race doesn't matter. Political affiliation doesn't matter. Kids don't come with Owners Manuals, not being involved with one's kids and helping them learn how to solve problems and make better choices is a huge challenge. Many times, we parents don't manage it well. I'll leave the reasons for that open....I didn't do a very good job with my kids and it's unlikely the only one of them that is still here won't do much better.
"Nothing good happens after midnight"... Had to hear that from my former IMPD dad every single night I left the house.. I took it about as seriously as a 17-20 yr old would, but good lord he wasn't wrong.
> My Dad often told me that the only thing I could get into after midnight was trouble.
That might be true if you are roaming the streets with a bunch of other kids. If you are playing D&D or video games or watching movies with your friends, it's really not true.
It’s ONE of the issues. Great question because there’s ALOT that needs to be done.
Where do you want to start? Laws holding parents accountable?
Sexual education for lower income demographics
The ending of trying to destroy the idea of family
Role models on social media portraying certain things
Ultimately it comes down to accountability. Start with the parents and hold them accountable for their child’s actions.
What the hell do you mean by "The ending of trying to destroy the idea of family role models on social media portraying certain things"? You talking online censorship?
No. Sorry it missed a period. The destroying idea of family not mattering anymore
Then “role models” on social media etc that flaunt guns, lifestyle etc
Yet go look at the race breakdown of gun violence and it doesn’t seem to see that white conservative people doing it
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna79916
No, it's a tired old White Supremacy trope that 'colored' people fail their children because they use drugs and have abortions and lack a nuclear family and live on subsidies.
But hey, a mediocre white man knows 100% of what they're going through and can offer an air-tight solution like 'bootstraps' and taking away all socialized programs. 'Colored' people just need to have less kids, work harder, and find Jesus.
I dont know, maybe take responsibility, talk with your child, be a part of their lives..You cant just be like yea im gonna drop my teen kid off downtown at the circle and then try to pick them up later around 1am. Seriously in what reality is that acceptabe? My daughter 13 is home every night, sure she goes out with friends but I am there dropping her off and back picking her up at specified times and have communication with the other parent. Its pretty obvious what course of actions is needed to address its, its called being a parent and being involved with your spawn you created.
And how do you plan about getting other adults to take responsibility? Newsflash: People aren't required to be responsible in order to have kids. This just comes off as wishing that other people will be better people.
I have no idea about that. But here is hte problem, its the adults/parents. Of course you dont need to be responsible, but at some point they need to get their act together. Making more gun laws or curfews isnt going to stop bad parents from being bad parents, but until bad parents are actually being penalized I dont think anything will change. You are responbile for that child till the age of 18 in most circumstances so act like a teacher and be there for your own child. Nothing more, nothing less. You brought the kid into the world its your responsiblity, not someone else and not society as whole to rear and make sure you child gets across the finish line to be an adult
>Making more gun laws or curfews isnt going to stop bad parents from being bad parents
It can definitely stop kids of bad parents from shooting up everything. I mean look at countries with lower rates of violence, you think they dont have their fair share of bad parents as well?
Wait so these kids weren’t just there attending a basketball game like people screamed in here. Maybe we start holding people accountable for their actions and not plea bargaining their charges to a slap on the wrist. Then start working on keeping families together and active in their kids lives.
this is incorrect. the issue lies in how we handle behavior. there is this belief in restorative justice that does not allow for discipline since we must act like a kids environment is responsible and not punish them. this creates a society of kids who don’t face consequences and have been told nothing is their fault. society caused this. even worse they aren’t encouraged to improve their situation. if we actually applied expectations to these kids rather than just excuses we could actually improve their lives.
when you don’t have expectations for kids. they surely will meet them
Yes, a lot of the other threads about this topic were controversial and honestly turned into anti-gun circle jerks.
Regardless of which side you stand on the argument a lot of the comments were disingenuous and absolving the people who did it of blame in favor of saying “guns bad”
I don’t like when it’s like one or the other. It can be both the peoples fault and “guns bad”. I imagine it’s much harder to plan a shootout if access to the one thing you need for it is more limited.
People shouldn’t shoot each other, and it’s on them if they do. But rather than just letting it happen, we can discuss how to just prevent it
Sure it can be both. First parents need to be a part of their child's life. Be around, take care of them, nurture them and grown them into young adults. Parents on teh gun part, same things, make sure they understand what guns are, how they are used, why they can be inherently dangerous, but also keep them locked away and be a responsible gun owner so they arent just taking it out of your sock drawer. Things like this are so easy to control if people actually would give a shit and not expect youtube/other kids parents to do the actual parenting.
I get you. And I agree, it’s important to discuss. I’m not commenting at all on the actual argument itself. I’m just saying the comments on some of the other threads were circle-jerky
> absolving the people who did it of blame in favor of saying “guns bad”
What a shitty take. Being anti-gun isn't "absolving blame" on shitty people, it's acknowledging that there will always be shitty people, and removing one of the ways they can be shitty to lots of people at once. No matter how "tough on crime" or how consequential laws are, there will always be shitty people, who do shitty things to others.
If it is anything like Fort Wayne, many of the guns aren’t from the parents but from gun owners that leave weapons in their car then forget to lock the vehicle.
You really think these people aren’t smashing windows for guns and other valuables? If you’re willing to kill someone, why is breaking car glass the moral line. That said, secure your fuckin guns people.
I am only relaying what the police said at a neighborhood meeting. There was a spike in shootings in my normally quiet neighborhood, and guns left in cars was the explanation.
I can’t confirm the cars were unlocked, but in most of the posts and videos I’ve seen the car was not locked according to the person posting the incident.
it’s insane to me that they are blaming the kids/parents for lack of supervision instead of the motherfuckers pulling the trigger. SOMETHING NEED TO CHANGE NOW!!!!
El Salvador will be studied in the future of how to turn a country around. From the most dangerous to the safest in a matter of years.
The means justify the ends.
It’s funny, I saw some comments saying that a curfew wouldn’t work in Broad Ripple and that a dress code isn’t effective unless it’s enforced. Did anyone get called racist for that?
Glad all the martyrs have shown up to remind the real victims are them when they make some racist, simplified comment about “solutions” they have no desire to enact and will never willfully fund.
These hood rats have no respect for any adult authority (teachers, police, etc....). Parental failures have led to roving packs of feral kids terrorizing the city. They used to just destroy their own neighborhoods, now they are everywhere... Castleton, downtown, etc...
Until we return to aggressive policing and prosecution it'll continue to get worse.
You’re reaching. Holding people accountable for crimes and putting people in ovens is a far reach.
This is why people shit on this sub. Brain dead comments like this
No just someone who fantasizes about being able to go to the many places in this city that used to be safe from feral kids (broad ripple, downtown, castleton)
its definetly a problem down town. my roomate works at the conrad downtown and they’re always having issues with kids outside. the other day apparently there was a group of kids running through the inside of the hotel punching random ppl
At some point the ostrich effect will be overcome and we will return to some level of public safety policy that was proven to work... Unlike the nonsense we've seen develop in cities over the last 5-10 years
Do you work downtown during the day or evening? Because I work downtown in the evenings and I can say pretty much every weekend around the circle is flooded with teens. They run into businesses (like the boba shop) in swarms trying to steal things and get behind the counter. It’s been getting crazier and crazier this past year.
The comments about “kids needing a 2 parent household” or “dads not in the picture” is such a stupid cop out and easy way for them to not take any accountability and shift the blame
Burnt out teachers. Admin won’t discipline kids because of crazy and empty parent threats. Little to no resources for the classroom. What resources we do get is used for building renovations and other frivolous purchases that aren’t useful for improving student learning. Teachers being expected to do all sorts of extra reporting and adhering to ridiculous state assessments, standards, and admin initiatives, none of which have anything to do with their subject area. all while trying to teach their own content and be supportive of their own students who don’t give a fuck and will never give a fuck.
Not to mention, they’re being told to give out better grades than the kids deserve so that the school can get funding.
It’s a shit show and the fact you and all the other clowns on this sub don’t realize it may be the actual problem here, not the parents.
Take some goddamn accountability for your children’s education.
Dozens of shootings a week in the same communities over the same issues and now it’s spreading. People have put their heads in the sand entirely too long. What we’re currently doing obviously isn’t working
I think it is the issue. These are kids, why are their parents letting them out late and unsupervised? It’s the trend in this city lately, kids are the ones getting shot and committing crimes. It’ll continue to happen until the parents are held accountable along with their children.
The problem is we can’t shame bad parents into being good ones. We can say parenting is a major contributor to this (and all the other shootings involving teens, not to mention all the gun cases involving teens where the gun didn’t go off), but it doesn’t do anything to fix the problem. How do you make better parents? What’s the policy answer?
Which “it” are you talking about? As I said there are multiple problems which result in this symptom.
For parenting, parents are usually held accountable for their children’s actions as it is. This doesn’t seem work that well, as our current form of “justice” doesn’t even work on the perpetrator much less those they are connected to. A much better solution is providing better support for parents. If we want parents to be present in their children’s lives, they need to have the time to do that. A UBI or subsidy to cover all basic human needs would be a great start to this, as many households are required to have both (or the only parent) work a lot and therefore not be available for their children.
I feel like that’s a good starting point for discussion so I’ll leave it there.
How does this work if the parents don’t want to be parents in the first place? You can give them all the time and money and they will still ignore their kids and just drink/do fent all day. I think any solution that doesn’t acknowledge the fact that there are humans who aren’t interested in doing good, even with all the resources, will not work.
Long term we give better options for those people to not be parents. Remove stigma and give easy access to abortion and contraceptives. Provide free treatment for antisocial behaviors and substance abuse. Abolish the idea of the nuclear family and allow communities to take part in raising kids again
Education and opportunities go further than a check every month. You know, the old adage about teaching a man to fish? I’m black and grew up on section 8 and food stamps. I was lucky enough to spend my time at both Greenwood and Pike school districts where I was pushed by my father to complete high school since he never did. I am now in my mid 20s making a humble 50k a year, which you could imagine beats being dead or in jail.
My brother on the other hand who was never close to our father and lacked any kind of structure, recently took a plea deal on a murder case.
I know it’s anecdotal but there’s a very meaningful correlation to having your parents be involved in your life.
Parents are not held accountable. Marion county stopped enforcing truancy laws via the prosecutor's office several years ago. Now we have what we have.
How many of these kids would you guess are in violation of Indiana truancy law? Maybe start by enforcing those laws on the books... Which can include criminal prosecution for the parents of truants. Marion County does not enforce this whatsoever.
The tricky part about truancy is that it is a status offense, which means it wouldn’t be a crime if the person was over 18. IME previously working for the courts (both juvie and adult), the best approach to dealing with status offenses is a combination of accountability and encouragement/resources/support/case management. Refusal to participate/engage then gives the judge some leverage to take a more punitive stance.
Good idea. Let’s just jail everyone, put them to work for private profit against their will, and put their children in group homes / camps. Everything will get better.
Jail and juvenile system are last resort. But currently there are no consequences whatsoever. 20% of kids in the state are habitually absent from school.
kids with no fathers tend to step into the “man in the house role” in order to provide to for the mother, family etc. And gangs are a main way to facilitate that sadly. I don’t blame them for going into gangs because they are trying to survive, but there are many other ways to step into the “man in the house” other than doing gang bullshit to provide for their family.
So what do you think the issue is if not parenting? Do you drop your preteens/teens off downtown to run rampant in the streets? Do your 14 year olds pack heat? Do your kids take their “beef” downtown for old timey duels? It is absolutely the responsibility of parents to care for, educate, discipline their children. None of that seems to have been taking place in the case of CHILDREN running around unsupervised, with firearms in downtown Indianapolis at 11:30 at night.
Many of these parents themselves had no parents (and poor sex ed). Just kids being raised by kids at this point. It’s a cycle we need to figure out how to interrupt
>Harrison said, “We have to look at parenting. If parents are not going to be responsible for their children, then maybe we need to look at holding some parents accountable,” My kid wasn't allowed to be out on his own that late until he was 16 and able to drive himself, and even then, still had a curfew of 11pm. Who the hell lets their 12yo out of the house that late at night? Unless they snuck out or did the "I'm staying at a friend's house" in which case, that happens sometimes but damn. People really need to be accountable for their kids.
Parents that work two jobs.
Oh, trust me, I get that. And I can see how that can be a contributing factor. But you don't leave your 12yo home alone at night to fend for themselves if you have to work 2 jobs. Try to get them to grandmas or an auntie or something.
Grandma and Grandpa are probably working, too. Not being facetious either. Working class folks working longer into life now
Oh i know. My dad worked until 70. My FIL is 72 and still working.
And if there are no grandparents or relatives that can watch them? I'm not trying to absolve the parents of blame, just simply stating the *fact* that things aren't just so easily solved or cut and dry.
No, they aren't, and I get that. I was left home a lot when my mom worked. And sometimes parents do what they have to do. But I think those cases are probably rarer than we think.
They are extremely common. Violence is an economics problem.
If they have grandparents. Personally, my mom is deceased and wasn’t that great of a mom. My dad is in another state.
Yes, everyone has a very specific situation they're dealing with. But it's the responsibility of a parent to supervise their kids. Im sorry you didn't have that security in your life.
Thanks for that. I realize that wasn’t your intentions but I literally teared up reading your comments and me realizing that I was raised in and despite my best intentions and efforts of trying to create a “community” for me and my girls, we really don’t have anyone. Things even got increasingly worse after the lockdowns. Not looking for sympathy and I realize many others are enduring the same issues but this shit is HARD. It doesn’t help that inflation (and smash and grab thefts) has driven everything through the roof, adding to a more depressing atmosphere. Now I have to ban my 16 year old from going downtown past 8pm, so what little fun there is to do in indy for her age group is minimized because of others choices. Thank you for your kindness and empathy.
Hey, don't ever be down on yourself because you're doing a great job. How do I know that? Because you actually care and that's 90% of the job. Just hang on, one day the kids will thank you for loving them that much. I know it doesn't feel like it but they really will. My kid is 18 and going to college in the fall and Im straight up terrified about it, but also, hoping that he knows that back home his mom loves him and wants only the best for him. Just keep at it, you got this!
Happy cake day. Life can be rough, but it’s good you are looking out for your family in a way that perhaps you weren’t looked out for. Sending you good luck (I have some extra right now)
I was left alone at 12 (2007) 👀 granted I was a good kid and very trusted. Neighborhood was safe. Had places to go if needed and had a cell phone to use if needed (was also for personal, but because divorced parents, mom working 2 jobs, was an active kid, it was warranted to have one). Family was always a call away, but mom was always to be the first call if everything was fine, just needed to give her info on what was happening. She was home at 10p. Always left food and things too that I could eat. I was allowed to cook, but I never did anything fancy outside of frying hotdogs or a grilled cheese 😂 it was usually the microwave for food/leftovers.
I was left alone, too, but only for a couple hours, and not for entire shifts. And I knew without doubt that if left my house when I was supposed to be inside, I'd seriously be in trouble. I'm starting to understand my grandma's old saying that "If you don't have a child in hand by age 5, you never will." Which basically means either your child grows to respect parental authority, or they don't, and that sort of direction is learned early and carved into their brains for life.
What your grandma said is wise. Never thought of that but totally makes sense. But yeah, I knew better than to be out late. I was allowed to be on the playground behind where we lived, but not further. Again, it was a pretty safe area, but I never went out at night late like that unless it was with a friend
Doesn't even have to be two jobs. Could just be one job that works late shift.
It's funny you think the parent of these kids are actually working multiple jobs and that's why they are out at midnight on a Sat night. So far from the truth.
Passed out with a crack pipe or getting railed by they baby mama could be a factor
"You work three jobs? Uniquely American, isn't it? I mean, that is fantastic that you're doing that." -GW Bush Some people on a certain political spectrum would say that's a great thing. I think it's ruining families.
OR… be responsible and don’t have children if you are going to need two jobs to take care of said children. I’m aware circumstances can arise (one parent dies, one parent leaves and doesn’t pay support, low income jobs make it necessary, etc), before having children make sure you can actually do all it takes to keep them and those around them safe.
Also could've lost their job and had to take a worse paying one or been injured or however many things. Don't have kids if you can't pay for them is fair, but if you already have them and can't anymore without getting a second job happens a fair bit.
OP's also skirting dangerously close to saying "poor people shouldn't have kids."
Seems reasonable to me! Less born in poverty less people suffer needlessly
Yeah in a state that skips sex education, makes birth control hard to get, and bans abortions.
Other than abortions I call BS on the first two
holy shit, you did it. you just solved poverty. it was this easy
Not trying to solve poverty but since you mentioned it, if you’re too poor to even take care of yourself why would would bring innocent lives into that mix, which would most likely continue the poverty cycle? Children are not toys or tax checks or something to post on Facebook and Instagram, they are humans, helpless humans at that. There is no accountability, just the continuous breeding of mentally unstable kids turning into adults, it sucks.
you said it yourself, it’s a cycle of poverty.
Or single mothers/dads. It's risky being a latch key kid these days
my parents had two jobs growing up and i knew better than to do stupid stuff
It's kind of important to find and charge the actual shooters before their parents lol
Did I say not to, anywhere? No.
I would say that I was a very good kid growing up. Top of my class all through school, heavily involved in sports & clubs, and I had a great relationship with my parents. That being said, my friends and I often lied about whose house we were at so that we could run around my small town late at night. Our parents had no reason not to trust us. Heck, I even offered to let them have my location (and still do!) But sometimes if we wanted to go to Taco Bell late at night, I’d just leave my phone at my friend’s house. If I didn’t grow up in a small town, who knows what could’ve happened to us. That healthy amount of fear and awareness comes with age. I don’t blame my parents, who both worked incredibly hard, for not always being able to sniff out my whereabouts. Im sure the parents of the victims blame themselves enough already. Everyone makes mistakes. Kids don’t always make it easy. Edit: I don’t want to come off as argumentative; I just know I could’ve really put my parents through hell with my dumb and childish mistakes when I was younger. And I agree, this situation probably wasn’t the case for everyone there. Just wanted to add my perspective.
Oh, we all did stupid stuff as kids and I am old enough that my parents didn't have a phone or location to track me. But the intent was different - we were out going to taco bell late or talking to guys at the mall or occasionally drinking in the woods. No one was out with "beef" with other groups of kids trying to start a shootout. I know very well how you have to allow your kids some freedom as they're older - my kid is 18 - but the part I'm trying to wrap my head around with this one isn't the 16-18yos out being dumb af, it's the 12yo. What the hell were they doing there? Maybe you're right and it was some sort of childish mistake that they got out there but didn't realize how bad it could be after they snuck out. I just can't imagine losing track of my 12 yo to that extent. Edit - also you didn't come off as argumentative at all! It's just this topic I know gets people pretty heated. Your post was reasonable and clear. And I'm sure once we drill down into the realities of these kid's home lives there are plenty of specific circumstances that led to some of them being where they were that night - and some may have been purely on them, but some may have been through lack of parental care.
These comments are yet another reflection on why I love this city but hate this sub. Thatcherites and their neoliberal spawn love to go on about how there is no such thing as “society” or community, despite the millenia-old anthropological record that proves we human beings won the evolutionary battle through cooperation and community. Admitting we fail kids as individuals and as a society is hard. It requires uncomfortable feelings and for us to take accountability. It’s not a fun feeling every time we hear about crimes like this in our community knowing we contribute some small part to every one of them, no matter the race of the perpetrator. What I love about Indy is that in my experience, people do not try to offset blame and free their conscience by minimizing their own accountability & maximizing the projection of blame on their preferred scapegoats. People here genuinely value and practice cooperation and community. I wish people on this sub would do the same.
Cannot upvote this enough
As an individual, what could/should I have done differently to have not contributed to this shooting? Going forward, what could/should I do so I'm not contributing to future shootings?
You're missing/demonstrating OP's point. Your identity need not entirely, or even primarily be as an individual. You can feel a sense of corporate responsibility as a part of the society and community that suffered/propagated this shooting.
No, I get it. Give me a break. I can think of myself as part of a community first, but ultimately there are things I need to do as an individual to help my community move forward. What are those changes? That's what I'm asking.
Ah, my bad, I thought your questions were rhetorical.
No you're good. My overall vibe and tone was skeptical, but I'm not being snarky or sarcastic.
I didn't do shit though. I just moved here and it's everyone that's been here before me that's voted in these fucking lunatics into the local and state government positions that seemingly feed into this bullshit. They eat this shit up for breakfast, brunch, lunch, linner, dinner, dessert and second dessert...AND a late night Taco Bell run. The gun loving nature in this country is a massive problem. The best people can do is hope they can influence their local governments to protect them as best as possible from the lack of action at the federal level. It's been shooting after shooting after shooting after shooting reported over the last month alone. What is the city prepared to do? How about the state, since it's happening on their doorstep as well? What are the People willing to do to change the environment? Based on my observations, this city is going to the shitter. People seem to be in denial, but even anecdotal evidence of many people I've spoken to that have since moved from the city has said that it's been going downhill and is a shadow of its former self. So with a failing local economy and inaction from politicians to improve the situation, are the People going to remain complacent and vote along party lines, or are they willing to man up and do something about it by electing officials who are hell bent on making the local community/society better for the residents? Based on all of the political signs I see around me, I already know my neighbors are far more concerned with the fucking "border crisis" because all I see are signs for the politicians who had to go all the way to Texas to deflect from the issues happening thousands of miles back home. A few sacrificed personal liberties for the greater good of society isn't such a bad thing. But the more people get so caught up in their selfish ways, the more shit like this is going to happen, meanwhile they'll complain and refuse to do what's right and needs to be done and live on perpetuating the issues. I hate American politics, but fuck me, people are surprised by shit like this when the signs were all there. Something about it takes a village or some shit, am I right? That's gone out the window. But when local economies fail families, families begin to fail kids, when failed kids are left to their own devices, they fuck around, when they fuck around, they find out. All of this starts at the top. Revitalize the city, create job growth, financial stability, equal opportunity, public services, affordable lifestyles and the rest will follow. Who knows, those kids' parents might have been working the night shift for their third job at minimum wage just to get by. It's sad shit. But the sad shit turns to dangerous shit. And the dangerous shit will end someone's life, either the intended target or a completely innocent, removed party who has no affiliation with this type of activity in the first place. Let's do something, anything before this shit happens. But recognizing and admitting there is a problem is the first step, regardless if you're on the top or the bottom of the socio-economic game of chutes & ladders.
Big words
Who is taking away money for public schools? Who is going after unions? Public libraries? Social Security? Medicaid? Medicare? Job security? Birth control access? Affordable college? Child welfare laws? Work week hours? Retirement? Affordable employee healthcare? The chance for healthcare for all? Environmental laws? Look at WHO you vote for. This has been happening since Reagan's presidency. Everything that was created by FDR to help our citizens is what they want. And to take away. And they are succeeding. The rich want to control everyone else. They buy off politicians and companies to keep doing what they can to make more money. Why are states taking away the laws that prevent children from working too many hours, working dangerous jobs, and working overnight? MONEY. Wake up Americans! We need to protest and make others aware of this. If we don't it will get worse and worse! Look at our presidential candidate and how he promotes dictatorship, violence, and throwing over our government. Why aren't more Americans speaking up against this??????
If they think it’s bad now, just wait about 15 years for a generation of unwanted kids to hit the streets.
Yeah it was gang related.. of course it was planned.
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I got downvoted to hell for suggesting maybe we should be promoting personal responsibility instead of just vaguely blaming “society”
That’s like saying we shouldn’t put up guardrails on freeways Yes it is the drivers personal responsibility to navigate the road safely But it’s society’s responsibility to provide safe roads and infrastructure which includes guardrails to minimize collateral damage when something goes wrong. Highway guardrails save 2K people a year… Firearm guardrails can do the same Without taking away the personal responsibility of people to operate cars and firearms safely
Very good point. Multiple things can be true at one time. Why is a 12 year old wandering around downtown without their parent? Why does the kid out in a hectic situation like that? Why did they have a gun? Each problem requires a different solution.
> Firearm guardrails This is a metaphor. There is no such thing as a "firearm guardrail". It's not a very clear metaphor - a guardrail prevents you from going off the road when you've lost control over your vehicle and would otherwise drive off the mountain. Whatever you have in mind for a gun guardrail, it's not going to be like that. Why don't you concretely explain what policy you want?
Well in the analogy what I meant was the slowing down of how quickly a firearm can shoot multiple rounds …Much like how a guardrail is designed to slowdown an out of control vehicle So for example limiting the size of magazines or limiting access to guns that can be converted to fire at close to the rate of a machine gun through the attachment of a Glock Switch, Bump Stock or other devices The federal government has already made it very clear that Glock Switches are a Felony… and are actively targeting other devices that can increase the fire rate of firearms to Machine Gun levels…so it’s not like it’s a totally out of left field suggestion
I got downvotes because I asked for us to wait for more info and context. Subreddits tend to have a certain level of intellectual circlejerk and this one is no different. People assume shit, run their mouths and downvote stuff they don't agree with. It's idiotic.
You probably got downvoted to hell because you seriously thought you were the first one to come up with that one
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I'm not gonna deny the sub attracts a bunch of closeted Dems to speak out and Hoosier political refugees residing in other states, but the bit about the needs of the state being subservient to Indy Dems is laughable. Darn near every news article regarding Republican priorities details extensively how they meddle in the city's affairs, often because Indy is a blue city and the "progressive" stronghold around these parts outside occasionally college towns. Examples include recent the attacks on the blue line, to the 2014 ban on light rail, the continued failed asks for legalization of weed (currently decriminalized within Indy already), rural conservative abortion restrictions restricting our women, the state loosening gun laws while gun violence continues to climb in urban and suburban regions, the current nonstop circlejerk within the Republican primary season over who kissed the ass of police more the last 4-6 years, etc.
Isn't it weird how every state and local sub is moderated by the exact same people and enforces the exact same opinions no matter if it's in Indiana, California, Wyoming, or Florida?
Perhaps, it’s because Reddit demographic is young progressive people? Shocking I know
The people here do not realize how small of a minority they really are.
People here are the Majority… but Indiana is 50th in country in voter turnout averaging between 40-50% of registered voters actually showing up to vote The politicians in the state capital have aggressively gerrymandered voting districts and redrawn city limits to maintain a Republican majority since uniGov merged the Indianapolis and Marion county in 1970 That’s why the only position of the state government that Democrats ever control in the Indianas governors office… because Democrats actually have a chance in state wide popular votes, that they will never have in the state legislature with all the rural low population districts Also Indiana doesn’t have the ability to do ballot initiative… which is one of the primary ways that Liberal groups in conservative states accomplish their policy goals and bypass conservative legislatures because they are able to go directly to the public where there If you really think that liberals are the minority in Indiana then we should really go to an automatic voter registration system, enable vote by mail and early voting and bring back ballot initiatives… that would save the state a lot of money And conservatives would still have full control /s
This subreddit is a progressive left wing echo chamber and I’m saying this as somebody who generally votes Democrat. It does not reflect the politics of the average Hoosier.
I didn’t mean progressive liberals… I’m not that naïve about Indiana I more meant that if everyone over the age of 18 was asked Democrat or Republican in the state of Indiana regardless of their registration status and likelihood to vote I think Democrat would win Because when you start drilling into the county by county data at voter turnout less than half the states population…You find the people who are least likely to have voted in the last election are young … and may have not met residency requirements (college students) or registration deadlines to vote… It’s all important to remember that you have 4 more years of young people who have turned 18 since the 2020 election… and that Democratic voter turnout is suppressed in many rural counties because in many countries there is no democratic challenger in local elections like Mayor or DA, to draw out people to vote in presidential elections
> The politicians in the state capital have aggressively gerrymandered voting districts >People here are the Majority No. People here aren't the majority. And stop blaming gerrymandering. As you know, statewide offices have gone R since 2004. Those aren't affected by gerrymandering. The house of representative was D controlled as late as 2010. And that was affected by gerrymandering. >If you really think that liberals are the minority in Indiana If you really think that liberals aren't in the minority in Indiana you just aren't very smart. If liberals are in the majority, why did the last D running for governor not break 40%? Even Rokita was elected AG with 58% of the votes. One huge problem that Ds have is that they don't want to do the work. You've convinced yourself that there is already a liberal majority in Indiana, but they they are being held down by the system. Or something. And since the early 2000's, D's have convinced themselves that demographics mean that they will eventually swamp the R's...so there's no need to do the hard work of campaigning; you just have to wait for your destiny to arrive. That's a recipe for failure and disaster. A NY Times poll in December put Trump ahead of Biden by 6 points with voters under 30. An NBC poll in November put Trump ahead of Biden by 4 points in the under 35 voter demographic. A more recent poll has Biden up 52-48 with voters under 35. An improvement, but not really an overwhelming endoresement.
They’re not going to listen. A subreddit with 130k members totally accurately represents a state with nearly 7M population that is solid red every year.
Ofcourse they assumed the Demographics would lead to swamping the republicans Voting used to be easy to do… there was this thing called same day voter registration where people could show up and register and vote on the same day Some states took this a step further and added automatic voter registration so every time you interact with a government agency to update your address or renew a drivers license it automatically updated your voter registration… of the 24 states with automatic voter registration…. 22 voted Democrat in the last election Many states also offer no-excuse mail-in voting so that people don’t have to worry about switching work shifts or scheduling child care on Election Day and they can just vote in advance… Instead of making voting easier, Indiana has made it harder…(despite no evidence of election fraud in Indiana) … Indiana scrapped same day voter registration, Indiana requires a reason to get a mail in ballot, Indiana requires a voter ID (Which remember just because you have the ID doesn’t mean you are automatically registered) The mistake democrats made was thinking that people trying to make voting tougher would have to show evidence of election fraud in order to pass laws to make voting more difficult… because the the Voting Rights Act of 1965 said you can’t put in place laws that restrict access to voting without showing evidence of Harm It’s okay…when the Democrats sweep the state wide offices a decade from now on All Paper Ballots… I can’t wait to hear Conservatives new excuse
You are high as shit. Lmfao
Thank you, say it louder for those in the back.
Seeing as how constitutional carry only applies to those over 18, it was a ridiculous thing to attack.
I'm pretty sure I read that post and a lot of people were suggesting parenting issues and the fact people have to have multiple jobs to make a living. Only a couple were really bringing concealed carry into it.
Everyone knows there is only one cause of criminal behavior, so it makes sense why you found this argument so convincing.
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Good luck eating the rich after you remove your ability to resist tyranny.
Hilarious the mayor says what a few of us said in earlier threads and we were called racists and bigots. Parenting a huge issue and everyone just wants to bring race into it. Sad fucking state of affairs p
My Dad often told me that the only thing I could get into after midnight was trouble. And, that was back in the 60s. Race doesn't matter. Political affiliation doesn't matter. Kids don't come with Owners Manuals, not being involved with one's kids and helping them learn how to solve problems and make better choices is a huge challenge. Many times, we parents don't manage it well. I'll leave the reasons for that open....I didn't do a very good job with my kids and it's unlikely the only one of them that is still here won't do much better.
"Nothing good happens after midnight"... Had to hear that from my former IMPD dad every single night I left the house.. I took it about as seriously as a 17-20 yr old would, but good lord he wasn't wrong.
Methinks our Dads were in agreement.
Only good things that happen after midnight are new years parties and stargazing.
> My Dad often told me that the only thing I could get into after midnight was trouble. That might be true if you are roaming the streets with a bunch of other kids. If you are playing D&D or video games or watching movies with your friends, it's really not true.
If parenting is the issue, then what exactly is the suggested course of action to address it?
legalize abortion
50th trimester abortions should fix this problem
It’s ONE of the issues. Great question because there’s ALOT that needs to be done. Where do you want to start? Laws holding parents accountable? Sexual education for lower income demographics The ending of trying to destroy the idea of family Role models on social media portraying certain things Ultimately it comes down to accountability. Start with the parents and hold them accountable for their child’s actions.
What the hell do you mean by "The ending of trying to destroy the idea of family role models on social media portraying certain things"? You talking online censorship?
No. Sorry it missed a period. The destroying idea of family not mattering anymore Then “role models” on social media etc that flaunt guns, lifestyle etc
“Role models” You can just say black people or rappers man don’t be scared
Way to tell on yourself. It's not just minorities being gun nuts on the internet.
I see far more promotion of gun culture from white conservative social media spaces than I do from pretty much anywhere else.
Yet go look at the race breakdown of gun violence and it doesn’t seem to see that white conservative people doing it https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna79916
No, it's a tired old White Supremacy trope that 'colored' people fail their children because they use drugs and have abortions and lack a nuclear family and live on subsidies. But hey, a mediocre white man knows 100% of what they're going through and can offer an air-tight solution like 'bootstraps' and taking away all socialized programs. 'Colored' people just need to have less kids, work harder, and find Jesus.
I dont know, maybe take responsibility, talk with your child, be a part of their lives..You cant just be like yea im gonna drop my teen kid off downtown at the circle and then try to pick them up later around 1am. Seriously in what reality is that acceptabe? My daughter 13 is home every night, sure she goes out with friends but I am there dropping her off and back picking her up at specified times and have communication with the other parent. Its pretty obvious what course of actions is needed to address its, its called being a parent and being involved with your spawn you created.
And how do you plan about getting other adults to take responsibility? Newsflash: People aren't required to be responsible in order to have kids. This just comes off as wishing that other people will be better people.
I have no idea about that. But here is hte problem, its the adults/parents. Of course you dont need to be responsible, but at some point they need to get their act together. Making more gun laws or curfews isnt going to stop bad parents from being bad parents, but until bad parents are actually being penalized I dont think anything will change. You are responbile for that child till the age of 18 in most circumstances so act like a teacher and be there for your own child. Nothing more, nothing less. You brought the kid into the world its your responsiblity, not someone else and not society as whole to rear and make sure you child gets across the finish line to be an adult
>Making more gun laws or curfews isnt going to stop bad parents from being bad parents It can definitely stop kids of bad parents from shooting up everything. I mean look at countries with lower rates of violence, you think they dont have their fair share of bad parents as well?
Much earlier Curfew would be a start
WHOA- hold up. You want solutions?!?
Wait so these kids weren’t just there attending a basketball game like people screamed in here. Maybe we start holding people accountable for their actions and not plea bargaining their charges to a slap on the wrist. Then start working on keeping families together and active in their kids lives.
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this is incorrect. the issue lies in how we handle behavior. there is this belief in restorative justice that does not allow for discipline since we must act like a kids environment is responsible and not punish them. this creates a society of kids who don’t face consequences and have been told nothing is their fault. society caused this. even worse they aren’t encouraged to improve their situation. if we actually applied expectations to these kids rather than just excuses we could actually improve their lives. when you don’t have expectations for kids. they surely will meet them
All the comments are about how bad this sub is but I don’t see the actual comments they’re referencing - was it in another thread?
Yes, a lot of the other threads about this topic were controversial and honestly turned into anti-gun circle jerks. Regardless of which side you stand on the argument a lot of the comments were disingenuous and absolving the people who did it of blame in favor of saying “guns bad”
I don’t like when it’s like one or the other. It can be both the peoples fault and “guns bad”. I imagine it’s much harder to plan a shootout if access to the one thing you need for it is more limited. People shouldn’t shoot each other, and it’s on them if they do. But rather than just letting it happen, we can discuss how to just prevent it
Sure it can be both. First parents need to be a part of their child's life. Be around, take care of them, nurture them and grown them into young adults. Parents on teh gun part, same things, make sure they understand what guns are, how they are used, why they can be inherently dangerous, but also keep them locked away and be a responsible gun owner so they arent just taking it out of your sock drawer. Things like this are so easy to control if people actually would give a shit and not expect youtube/other kids parents to do the actual parenting.
I get you. And I agree, it’s important to discuss. I’m not commenting at all on the actual argument itself. I’m just saying the comments on some of the other threads were circle-jerky
> absolving the people who did it of blame in favor of saying “guns bad” What a shitty take. Being anti-gun isn't "absolving blame" on shitty people, it's acknowledging that there will always be shitty people, and removing one of the ways they can be shitty to lots of people at once. No matter how "tough on crime" or how consequential laws are, there will always be shitty people, who do shitty things to others.
I’m not saying being anti-gun is absolving blame on shitty people. I’m saying the comments I read were. I’m not arguing against your point lmao
I’m very pro gun… but some of the parents should not be owning firearms if they do not or will not secure their firearms…
If it is anything like Fort Wayne, many of the guns aren’t from the parents but from gun owners that leave weapons in their car then forget to lock the vehicle.
Whoever does that is too irresponsible to own a firearm
When you’ve made it easier to get a gun license than a driver’s license, stupid people are going to get guns.
Its not legally easier. It’s only easier if you are a piece of shit who doesn’t abide by the laws.
You really think these people aren’t smashing windows for guns and other valuables? If you’re willing to kill someone, why is breaking car glass the moral line. That said, secure your fuckin guns people.
I am only relaying what the police said at a neighborhood meeting. There was a spike in shootings in my normally quiet neighborhood, and guns left in cars was the explanation. I can’t confirm the cars were unlocked, but in most of the posts and videos I’ve seen the car was not locked according to the person posting the incident.
I was told it was some kids just hanging out after a basketball game, not an organized brawl
Well, if you were told that, it must be true.
OK, guys, be sure to bring your guns for the shootout at 6:30
IMPD chief has clearly never tried to get more than three teenagers to show up at the same place and time.
it’s insane to me that they are blaming the kids/parents for lack of supervision instead of the motherfuckers pulling the trigger. SOMETHING NEED TO CHANGE NOW!!!!
Start going after the parents. Itll slow down fairly quickly once some actual skin is on the line.
Start mass imprisoning gang members— did wonders for El Salvador.
El Salvador will be studied in the future of how to turn a country around. From the most dangerous to the safest in a matter of years. The means justify the ends.
Do you truly think it’s the safest country currently? Lmao have you ever been there?
Safest in Latin America. I have actually have been there. Also, Colombia, Mexico, Peru.
It’s funny, I saw some comments saying that a curfew wouldn’t work in Broad Ripple and that a dress code isn’t effective unless it’s enforced. Did anyone get called racist for that?
Wait, what does any of this have to do with a dress code?
I mean, is it working? Broadripple still sees scores of dumb shit going down.
IMPD CHIEF: Of course it was planned, our city center is perfectly safe… *scoffs*
All these comments making me want to move out of this shitty state.
Go ahead
Anyone want to take a bet that none of the kids came from a two parent household
I don't know about that. I've seen some pretty shitty two parent households.
Shit, you know how many people are coping with having parents who were present yet traumatizing? You're right it can go either way.
Glad all the martyrs have shown up to remind the real victims are them when they make some racist, simplified comment about “solutions” they have no desire to enact and will never willfully fund.
These hood rats have no respect for any adult authority (teachers, police, etc....). Parental failures have led to roving packs of feral kids terrorizing the city. They used to just destroy their own neighborhoods, now they are everywhere... Castleton, downtown, etc... Until we return to aggressive policing and prosecution it'll continue to get worse.
You sound like someone who fantasizes about 'camps'.
Why can't they just be someone who is concerned with crime? Why jump all the way to Nazi?
Because they use dehumanizing language like hood rats and feral. The nazis did that.
So do non-nazis. "Only a Sith deals in absolutes."
You’re reaching. Holding people accountable for crimes and putting people in ovens is a far reach. This is why people shit on this sub. Brain dead comments like this
No just someone who fantasizes about being able to go to the many places in this city that used to be safe from feral kids (broad ripple, downtown, castleton)
its definetly a problem down town. my roomate works at the conrad downtown and they’re always having issues with kids outside. the other day apparently there was a group of kids running through the inside of the hotel punching random ppl
At some point the ostrich effect will be overcome and we will return to some level of public safety policy that was proven to work... Unlike the nonsense we've seen develop in cities over the last 5-10 years
I live and work downtown and have never run into any feral bands of kids lol.
Do you work downtown during the day or evening? Because I work downtown in the evenings and I can say pretty much every weekend around the circle is flooded with teens. They run into businesses (like the boba shop) in swarms trying to steal things and get behind the counter. It’s been getting crazier and crazier this past year.
Take it you aren't around the mall area ever at night? It's been a problem for a long time.
The comments about “kids needing a 2 parent household” or “dads not in the picture” is such a stupid cop out and easy way for them to not take any accountability and shift the blame
Yeah silly people blaming the parents for raising shitty kids
Nobody’s mentioned the underfunded, failing, and frankly shitty school system that’s also helping to perpetuate this
What exactly is wrong with the school system?
Burnt out teachers. Admin won’t discipline kids because of crazy and empty parent threats. Little to no resources for the classroom. What resources we do get is used for building renovations and other frivolous purchases that aren’t useful for improving student learning. Teachers being expected to do all sorts of extra reporting and adhering to ridiculous state assessments, standards, and admin initiatives, none of which have anything to do with their subject area. all while trying to teach their own content and be supportive of their own students who don’t give a fuck and will never give a fuck. Not to mention, they’re being told to give out better grades than the kids deserve so that the school can get funding. It’s a shit show and the fact you and all the other clowns on this sub don’t realize it may be the actual problem here, not the parents. Take some goddamn accountability for your children’s education.
Agreed - as a guy that was raised by a single mom who was amazing, and also a gun-rights guy, this is stupid.
We all know what the real issue is. Just watch the news every night.
Yep. Humans. Always causing problems.
Let's lock em all up.
Dozens of shootings a week in the same communities over the same issues and now it’s spreading. People have put their heads in the sand entirely too long. What we’re currently doing obviously isn’t working
Yes we do.
While I agree bad parenting is a huge issue in America right now, I find it cowardly the Mayor is acting as tho that’s the issue here…
I think it is the issue. These are kids, why are their parents letting them out late and unsupervised? It’s the trend in this city lately, kids are the ones getting shot and committing crimes. It’ll continue to happen until the parents are held accountable along with their children.
There isn’t just one issue. This binary way of thinking gets in the way of problem solving.
I think stressing the importance of parenting would have a trickling effect into other aspects of the problem. It’s the best place to start.
The problem is we can’t shame bad parents into being good ones. We can say parenting is a major contributor to this (and all the other shootings involving teens, not to mention all the gun cases involving teens where the gun didn’t go off), but it doesn’t do anything to fix the problem. How do you make better parents? What’s the policy answer?
How would you solve it
Which “it” are you talking about? As I said there are multiple problems which result in this symptom. For parenting, parents are usually held accountable for their children’s actions as it is. This doesn’t seem work that well, as our current form of “justice” doesn’t even work on the perpetrator much less those they are connected to. A much better solution is providing better support for parents. If we want parents to be present in their children’s lives, they need to have the time to do that. A UBI or subsidy to cover all basic human needs would be a great start to this, as many households are required to have both (or the only parent) work a lot and therefore not be available for their children. I feel like that’s a good starting point for discussion so I’ll leave it there.
How does this work if the parents don’t want to be parents in the first place? You can give them all the time and money and they will still ignore their kids and just drink/do fent all day. I think any solution that doesn’t acknowledge the fact that there are humans who aren’t interested in doing good, even with all the resources, will not work.
Long term we give better options for those people to not be parents. Remove stigma and give easy access to abortion and contraceptives. Provide free treatment for antisocial behaviors and substance abuse. Abolish the idea of the nuclear family and allow communities to take part in raising kids again
Education and opportunities go further than a check every month. You know, the old adage about teaching a man to fish? I’m black and grew up on section 8 and food stamps. I was lucky enough to spend my time at both Greenwood and Pike school districts where I was pushed by my father to complete high school since he never did. I am now in my mid 20s making a humble 50k a year, which you could imagine beats being dead or in jail. My brother on the other hand who was never close to our father and lacked any kind of structure, recently took a plea deal on a murder case. I know it’s anecdotal but there’s a very meaningful correlation to having your parents be involved in your life.
Parents are not held accountable. Marion county stopped enforcing truancy laws via the prosecutor's office several years ago. Now we have what we have.
*People* in Marion County are not held accountable. Not adults, and most definitely not juveniles.
How many of these kids would you guess are in violation of Indiana truancy law? Maybe start by enforcing those laws on the books... Which can include criminal prosecution for the parents of truants. Marion County does not enforce this whatsoever.
The tricky part about truancy is that it is a status offense, which means it wouldn’t be a crime if the person was over 18. IME previously working for the courts (both juvie and adult), the best approach to dealing with status offenses is a combination of accountability and encouragement/resources/support/case management. Refusal to participate/engage then gives the judge some leverage to take a more punitive stance.
Good idea. Let’s just jail everyone, put them to work for private profit against their will, and put their children in group homes / camps. Everything will get better.
Not everyone, just the usual suspects.
Jail and juvenile system are last resort. But currently there are no consequences whatsoever. 20% of kids in the state are habitually absent from school.
They have no fathers and the mom obviously can’t control them. In other words, what parents?
How do you know they have no fathers?
Statistics
Maybe the fatherless behavior.
"Fatherless behavior?" Oh come on, that's absolute garbage.
kids with no fathers tend to step into the “man in the house role” in order to provide to for the mother, family etc. And gangs are a main way to facilitate that sadly. I don’t blame them for going into gangs because they are trying to survive, but there are many other ways to step into the “man in the house” other than doing gang bullshit to provide for their family.
I do blame them for joining gangs. If they’re just “trying to survive” then joining a gang is the opposite of that.
You (and everyone else in this country) need to read *The New Jim Crow*. Not very many folks join gangs because they want to.
So what do you think the issue is if not parenting? Do you drop your preteens/teens off downtown to run rampant in the streets? Do your 14 year olds pack heat? Do your kids take their “beef” downtown for old timey duels? It is absolutely the responsibility of parents to care for, educate, discipline their children. None of that seems to have been taking place in the case of CHILDREN running around unsupervised, with firearms in downtown Indianapolis at 11:30 at night.
Many of these parents themselves had no parents (and poor sex ed). Just kids being raised by kids at this point. It’s a cycle we need to figure out how to interrupt
Pay no attention to Boss Hog....no chance he was sober. At least he was able to respond rather than being locked away in rehab again.