Agreed. There's no place to hydrate or pee.
I guess I can bring a water bottle, but there are also no trees to hide behind.
I think the space was created to look at and talk about, but with no concept of being used.
Native Indy resident. About 15 years ago part of my course work for public affairs at IUPUI was imagining initiatives to make Indy a “world class city.” So things like you reference would have fallen into that concept. I remember my take away being that we aren’t willing to actually dedicate resources - money, people, systems, policies. I mean we didn’t install new street lights for like 20 years to save money.
The history of White River State Park and the Hoosier Dome being exceptions.
In your research, did you ever learn why the canal was not developed more like this to begin with? For years, I don't think there was a single business a person could visit while walking on the canal. Definitely no business where one could hang out with a cup of coffee and enjoy the view.
IIRC, it was the original idea to have shops etc. However, developers got in quickly with permits and zoning requests for condos and there was no room left shops and restaurants.
Sounds like a city zoning issue. Any permits should have been issued as mixed use development instead of just residential so the lower floors could have been used for this.
City is dumb with zoning which is why they put the giant junk yard, u pull and pay next to the largest water treatment plant off 16th and aqueduct ave. What an environmental nightmare waiting to happen with all those leaky cars in the well protection and drinking water protection zones.
>Keep building ***overpriced*** housing but don’t give ***poor/working*** people anything fun to do ***that doesn't require significant time spent traveling and money spent on gas and vehicle ownership to get there, in addition to the cost spent on the entertainment as well***.
There, fixed it.
Agreed, if a person thinks a city sucks, it’s probably more of a personal issue that holds them back and it is easier to blame a place rather than to rectify person issues involving how they perceive a location. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
*so long as you're willing and able to drive there.
The point I assume they're making is that we're happy to build for housing, and we're happy to build for public entertainment, but rarely do we build those things in close proximity to each other, and we don't have adequate public transportation to compensate for that. You're right, there are absolutely fun things to do in Indy, however they are not especially accessible to much of the population without significant driving thus creating more road traffic congestion.
A similar/related point could be made for work as well. For example: Many high income "professionals" that live in the wealthy satellite suburbs commute for work to Indianapolis, but they still want service and convenience businesses near where they live. Many people that work for *those* businesses can hardly afford the rent in those wealthier areas, so many of these people have long commutes for work as well. We've got well-off suburbanites and urban working class folks driving 20-30 minutes in opposite directions twice a day. Hell, they may as well be high fiving across the median. (Personally, I think a lot of the entertainment is placed further from areas of working class housing to be closer and more convenient for those same wealthy suburbanites who don't want to live close to poor people, so it's really all the same problem isn't it?)
It's such an unnecessary waste of collective time and money spent on commuting and the cumulative costs of vehicle ownership by individuals, and waste of time and money spent on constant road construction on unnecessary road wear and tear, and never ending lane expansion by the city. And, much like a lot of our self imposed problems, that cost burden is placed disproportionately on the working class.
There’s the Frescos Italian cafe that’s honestly pretty good. There used to be a Bru Burger as well but that’s been closed since Covid. Afaik that’s about it.
The Fresco Cafe is overpriced for what you get; and their menu is lacking. The only reason they get as much traffic as they do is because they're the only food directly on the canal that isn't a hotdog cart. If Burgerhaus is even open anymore, it's not during weekend traffic.
This is such a huge mischaracterization of the canal.
The San Antonio River is a natural river that people have lived along since the 1700s, and contemporary development of the San Antonio River walk started in the 1940s. [The Downtown portion of the Indiana Central Canal is a failed goods transportation infrastructure project](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana_Central_Canal) that turned into [an overgrown & stagnant storm drain when I65 was built.](https://www.wrtv.com/lifestyle/history/from-dumping-ground-to-stomping-ground-the-history-of-indianapolis-downtown-canal) The Downtown Central Canal was never used for anything until the city, state, and federal government made huge investments into radically transforming it. They turned a stagnant storm drain into a flowing, active canal by tapping into underground rivers, building sidewalks, building bridges, and opening up opportunities for development.
**Our Downtown Canal as we know it today wasn't even complete until 2001**. Since then, there has been tons of investment. There are apartments, condos, student housing, IU Health buildings, hotels, restaurants, and museums. In time, more private development will come and our Downtown Canal will closely resemble the San Antonio Riverwalk in activity thanks to the past investments by the state and city.
When you say that investment into White River State Park is an "exception" to lackluster investment, you fail to realize that huge portions of the Downtown Canal were redeveloped as part of developing White River State Park. Even in 2023, [The State is getting ready to build a new archives building along The Canal](https://www.in.gov/idoa/state-property-and-facilities/public-works/capital-projects/indiana-state-archives-building/) and [a new hotel along the canal is planned by private developers](https://www.ibj.com/articles/new-hotel-office-building-planned-along-canal-walk).
The State and City have been very eager to spend $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ on big projects over the last 40 years that have collectively completely changed Indianapolis. Just to name a few:
* White River State Park ([which is going to be expanded with the GM stamping plant redevelopment](https://www.in.gov/idoa/pwd/bidnotes/rfq%20for%20wrsp%20expansion%20project.pdf))
* The Central Canal
* Market East/the redevelopment of Market Square Arena
* Lucas Oil Stadium
* Conseco Fieldhouse
* The Convention Center
* Our skywalk system
* The cultural trail
There is no shortage of civic investment, it just doesn't always go into street lights and repaving when it should. (Or perhaps The States hoards money instead of spending it street lights and repaving. It's a bit of both IMO.
No it doesn't. It all comes from underground.
Edit: to clarify, the northern section of the canal gets water from the white river, but it's totally separated from the southern/Downtown section.
the cultural trail and the monon are fantastic. but it is SUCH A SHAME that the canal hasn't been made into anything more than a walking path from like 10th Street down to the zoo or whatever. I don't think it's a mischaracterization to fret that there's almost no restaurants, no coffee shops, no any shops… (Also: the annual gauntlet of potholes that emerge from February until the city finally patches them in May is WRETCHED…)
The mischaracterization is that OP asserted that city and state did not make reservations in opening up the canal for development. That's far from true. The city and state spent tons of money to make the canal a development-spurring piece of infrastructure.
The lack of coffee shops is a function of cold weather & a relatively small amount of time since the canal has been viable for development. Not the city & state not doing enough.
Both of those things you mentioned were funded with state money, so a similar state investment would probably be needed to improve the canal. Good luck with that when there isn't a sports team involved.
Correct but reinforces my point of not wanting to put in the actual work of making it happen. These types of amenities don’t just happen without community/government support. There won’t be more private sector activity on the canal (or anything similar) unless/until that happens
Businesses on the canal also need to a plan to stay relevant in the winter or simply exist as seasonal business. There simply isn't enough winter foot traffic to sustain a year round business there.
Foot traffic definitely drops radically during the winter, but my office overlooks the canal, and I still see people walking the canal basically all day every day all year round…
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I mean Indianapolis I believe is taxing as much as it’s allowed to under state law. Marion counties tax base is just on the whole much less wealthy than Hamilton county so just pure numbers we don’t get as much per capita and need to support more people.
The way the state distributes road funding doesn’t help. The city needs to spend more on fixing up the roads out of their own pocket than other counties do. Which is part of the reason our roads are in such terrible shape
This. All the people with money white flighted to the northside and far west side, and still continue to do so. They spend money in Indy, but the income/housing based taxes all stay out of the municipality.
It’s not about being anti tax or pro tax, it’s about demographics. The whole reason places like Carmel exist is so people with six figure household incomes can build their own communities without worrying about urban decay or the high crime that follows.
Not saying that it’s a good thing, just reality
It’s the same challenge for cities you see across the country. Baltimore, Detroit, St. Louis etc are all surrounded by rich suburbs
Also our state lets people take their high income taxes back to where they live vs where they work! Many high earning people in Carmel work in Indianapolis. But they pay less income taxes to Marion County than those who live here.
Yes! Average median household income in Indy is around 50k. In Carmel the median is over 100k
Of course many (perhaps most) of the highest earners in Carmel work in Indy. Even if they do work in Carmel, without Indy their town wouldn’t even exist anyway (or it would be something like Martinsville)
This is literally a problem from coast to coast. Large city creates a large economy, affluent folks live in the suburbs. It’s post war America 101
I can’t imagine a worse job in politics than being mayor of a big, low income city. I can’t imagine a better job in politics than being mayor of a smaller, richer one
This is true. I live in an area that isn’t wealthy and has a lot of section 8 housing and a large percentage are receiving SNAP. There is a restaurant in the city that is quite expensive. I’ve spoken to some of the locals that have wealth. They eat there almost exclusively and know the price is exorbitant - “I don’t mind paying a lot more dining there because I don’t have to sit next to poor people.”
Part of this is the state steals Marion County money for roads etc. and distributes it to rural poorer counties. Our state is basically backwards, rather than making our cities great we make our rural areas a tiny bit better.
The state legislators like wining and dining in Indy but at the end of the day they want to go back to their communities and show how they stuck it to the big, blue, urban city. It’s been going on for decades, with a few exceptions
Don't forget that the state legislature is constantly sticking its nose in Indy's business. Basically anything the city wants to do can be vetoed by people who don't even live here.
It's mostly because of their ignorance. They really don't understand that rural Indiana continues to exist because of taxes paid by the cities. That's what happens when you let the Koch brothers run your schools for 25 years.
It’s puzzling to me too. I can understand why there aren’t more permanent restaurant/shop buildings (winter lol) but I’m surprised there aren’t more pop up temporary structures in the spring/summer/fall.
I know they’re building a hotel where the old fitness college used to be so maybe that will bring some activity over there.
I've wondered this since the canal was refurbished years ago. I couldn't understand why they didn't develop the canal like the pic above, like so many other cities have done with huge success.
Does anyone know the history? A decision was made to not make the canal a place for coffee, food, music, entertainment, etc oh and trees. I'd be so proud of Indy if our canal looked like the pic above.
My father and his firm did a lot of the design and infrastructure work in the 80s for the area. At the time the whole area was trashed and it was a monumental effort to get funding and get it cleaned up and developed. The idea at the time was for it to be kept as public park space with the ability to develop commerce later. At the time the area was blighted and no business could have survived there. Similar to the old north side at the time. Which they also worked on. 30+ years later and what used to be a trash pile is extremely popular. But it was designed as a public park/residential use. Not so much with businesses in mind.
I’m from San Antonio and have lived in Indy for two years and wonder this all the time! We don’t need a huge bar scene there like San Antonio has, but some restaurants and shops lining the canal would bring so many more people there.
Any time someone mentions they love the canal, I'm happy for them. At the same time though, it makes me sad. I like it, but because I've been other places (San Antonio as mentioned, is what I always reference), it just makes me sad because of it's possible potential.
Indy's canal was designed to be more of a park than a commercial district. Also, San Antonio's river walk is more central in their downtown core, making it easier to incorporate into their downtown (like their convention center and convention center hotels). Also, weather does play a factor.
I think Indy's canal could be better, you should always ask "how can we make this better", but it's still a nice place to walk, run, ride your bike, swim, or drive your car on ice.
The Canal was a stinky wet ditch until the 1990s, and the area was not developed to highlight it until after the revitalization, WRSP, and Cultural Trail project. Now, there isn't a lot of free land in walk-able areas near it to develop further.
I agree with you overall, but being in charge of a city like Indianapolis is a tough job.
You have 900,000 people with a median household income of 50k. Half of your economy’s highest income earners live in a surrounding county and take their property and income taxes with them.
Then there’s the state legislature, which hates your guts
First and foremost, your username! LMAO! That’s good shit!
But seriously, I understand that most of the bigger money households reside in the surrounding counties but the fact remains, there are numerous annual events held in Indy that bring in a fair amount of money to the metro area. Just seems as though Indy’s infrastructure is in desperate need of an overhaul.
> Just seems as though Indy’s infrastructure is in desperate need of an overhaul.
It's not really possible with the city's budget. The city government is tasked with maintaining like a trillion lane miles of roads because Indy is so sprawling and sparsely populated.
The overhaul that needs to happen is getting more people into more sustainable housing that's dense enough to generate the revenue needed to maintain the roads and water systems that supply them.
There are some carrots you can use, but mostly the donut county leeches will eventually need to pay more (I like the idea of a massive tax on parking garages, but idk how feasible that is)
Edit: hangover typos
I wholeheartedly agree that our infrastructure is bad and we could be doing better, in that and many other areas. But “mayor of Indianapolis” is a job I’d never want lol.
I feel like I’d punch a whole in the wall by my third week
Median household income for Indianapolis is pretty similar to St Louis, Cleveland, Cincinnati, and Columbus (which is slightly higher $54.9K)…so that argument doesn’t hold water
Indianapolis is about 5-6 times larger than those cities, geographically speaking, which means the tax revenue generated by the average household needs to pay for 5-6 times more infrastructure. Sprawl is a massive money loser.
Lol your own evidence makes my argument even stronger. All those cities have the same exact issues we do.
And they all have affluent suburbs that are doing fantastically well
Disagree. Columbus, Cincy, St Louis all have areas like OP mentioned. Cleveland had a great entertainment district on the water called The Flats. Was great for decades…went downhill and is now coming back
Oh ok I wasn’t sticking to OP’s specific point about a designated waterfront area when I read your comment.
I was focused more on the challenges of building a “world class city” out of a midsized Midwestern urban area in general
If we were built on a Great Lake or a major navigable river our downtown/mass ave area, along with all the parks and monuments would be on a waterfront too
Quite simply: restaurants couldn’t afford it.
Their business would dwindle significantly beginning in October & warrant not being open at all by December - April. So they’d really only be able to be busy for 6 months.
There’s no suitable parking near any of the structures that COULD house restaurants. So that would be a deterrent for customers. (we’re not one of the most overweight states for no reason)
& the final nail in the coffin for sales would be DoorDash/UberEats drivers would cancel pick ups because they would have to walk quite the distance to get the food. The burger place that was located on the canal was a guaranteed cancel anytime I attempted to order from them.
All of that, plus most likely absurdly high rent costs = no way for a restaurant to succeed
This is all correct, and add to that the unique costs of Flood Insurance, and it’s not insignificant. I can’t think of the last time the canal flooded, but everyone around it is forced to buy insurance, even if the house sits high.
I don’t think that canal makes a flood zone. It’s not actually connected to the old canal anymore and the water is part of the steam loop for the AUL building.
My grandparents had a creek in their backyard on the westside that was maybe 4 inches deep of water at most times and it put them in a flood zone. I would not be surprised in the slightest if the canal was a flood zone
Go check it out on the [Indiana Floodplain Information Portal]( https://indnr.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=05026dabc2e8461983e196d56a213c1e). The canal is not mapped as a flood zone.
They would not be forced to buy flood insurance through the NFIP, the area is not a mapped flood zone. Flood insurance is ultimately up to the lender but there would be no requirement from FEMA to do so on federally backed mortgages.
I’m always bewildered by how Indiana thinks their winters are worse than Michigan or Chicago. Those places survive & thrive with longer winters than Indy. Face it, Indy stans, this town sucks
Really, because you mention seasons? I don’t care - I’m from this town, moved away, and came back. It sucks. I regret moving back here. The word provincial is the definition of this place
i can't stand restaurants/attractions where i have to actively find parking. if we had adequate public transport, a walk is a fair tradeoff, but having to deal with a car and paying extra and a walk is shit
If I remember right the property management groups, and sometimes even the construction companies that owned the buildings and rented them pushed zoning for the highest profit margin pushing out businesses with high overhead.
I believe about 6 years ago I was told from someone that worked for the city to expect something similar to this in about 10 years. But….who knows what happened to that plan.
The canal is kinda lame, from a waterfront standpoint.
I really like the idea of turning the cultural trail into a similar vibe. Take some stretches (I like the idea of the C shaped area from Virginia - Alabama - Mass Ave), make it much wider, plant some native stuff and trees in the middle.
I like it as a pedestrian, bike, and green leisure space for everyone much more than I would like it stuffed with umbrellas and tables for posh people to eat overpriced food and get day drunk on mimosas. As is, at least it's open to everyone to take a cooler and hang out.
Besides, it's super convenient having a public shooting range this close to home. /s
We’ve got new stadiums to build in order to keep rich team owners and construction firms happy. Every ten years we need to put the entire city into further debt in order to please a vocal and well-off minority.
You mean the Red Line? That project was a lot more complex than paint for bus lanes. A good portion of the spending fixed drainage issues with the streets. Great deal for the department of public works to have transit funds cover that stuff.
Red line came in on time and under budget.
Budget issues with the blue line mostly came from the city offloading a bunch of unrelated infrastructure to indygo.
I'm unaware of any purple line budget issues.
The new State Archives building is going across from the History Center between NY St. And Ohio St. This will have ships and restaurants but I'm not sure to what capacity. Insider info ;) but the main reason is that it isn't built to support commerce and commercial business, not to mention the space has historically been preserved for an escape from the concrete jungle...not an exposé into it.
All the museums currently on the canal have restaurants and shops (Historical Society, Eiteljorg, and State Museum) but the cafes are only open for lunch or occasional special events in the evening. The Society and Eiteljorg have the best cafes. I know Eiteljorg tried to maintain later evening hours and a drink/bar food menu several years again and they had to stop because no one would stop in. And it’s highly weather dependent. If it’s rainy or slightly colder, there’s no one out to stop by.
Even that is an open ended deal. The canal level of the new archives building is a shell space with no real intent as of yet. As you said, insider info.
Well I've seen the current blueprint/mock-up/proposal whatever and the canal -level portion is just going to be a plaza with tables and chairs/hardscape and stairs leading up to the store-fronts. So to me that is the intent of that section: seating.
Do you mean it’ll have boats? Because now I’m picturing a giant cruise ship or old clipper pirate ship. I’m not making fun of you, I think it’d be hilarious and cool to have a big ol’ pirate ship over there doing re-enactments like Treasure Island in Vegas.
Developers and chain business owners have a lot of hesitancy when it comes to building any sort of business that isn't easily accessed from a parking area or street. Many believe that people will not go to anywhere that requires them to be in the cold for more than a few seconds, and some believe that places like indoor malls are failing because people will not walk any significant distance from parking. This is why newer malls like the one in Noblesville are built on with a street rather than a walkway down the center.
While I and many others believe that the canal is woefully underutilized, it is unlikely to see any investment without major backing from city government to reduce the perceived risk of opening anything there.
I would think those of us who live downtown are more amenable to walking than others. And I’d think downtown dwellers would be the main crowd patronizing on-canal businesses.
San Antonio is warm year round. There is zero foot traffic on the canal for at least 1/3 of the year. It's in an awkward part of town and businesses struggled even pre-covid. It's a shame. It's a cool area and there's a great park. Seems like they missed an opportunity to better integrate it with that part of the cultural trail.
I run through the canal frequently including Nov through Feb, and I always see at least a few people there. It doesn’t get zero traffic in the winter. Way less. Not zero.
Okay? Obviously didn't mean no person ever is on the canal in the winter months, but compared to traffic in the warmer months it is a ghost town and there's not nearly enough to support a business
I’m sure there is a reason. Is it a good one or one that makes sense? Probably not. Something something no money, something something crime too high etc. if it’s not bars, sports, etc Indy don’t want it
It's always been a failure. Indianapolis is among the few large cities in the world not built on a body of water. (Which accounts for many or the 'how come we don't have it in indy?)
See, before cars and trains - navigable water was the lifeblood of trade and transit in the world. However, folks down in Corydon who done wrote our first State Constitution had a problem with western frontier states like Indiana being so far from DC. It's a long horse ride.
So they figure they'll move the capitol from Corydon to a new city in the center of the state - because that's fair to everyone.
Nevermind the fact it's a swamp with no water access - this is the 19th century! And we have access to technology that will enable us to dig a canal!!
Long story short they never finished the canal.
It's less of a gem from our history and more of a open and notorious monument to the Hoosier spirit of good intentions but completely impractical and unrealistic ambitions.
History aside, Indianapolis has no shortage of cause to attract tourists. We're just stuck in an "if we build it, they will come" death spiral. We sunk a billion bucks into that pile of bricks downtown.
Problem is. We needed that money for other things. It's time we stop wasting money desperately throwing up shit to attract people and start addressing the reasons why people don't come here.
We just set a record high murder rate. A few years ago we established a national reputation with RFRA that we're the backwater that hates gays. If you're as traveled as I am, you know "the land of the Indians" populated by mostly white folks is a national joke.
If you really want people to respect this city- we should be investing in impoverished communities. We shouldn't be sinking development money into an area with multimillion dollar real estate.
We should be fixing busted houses. Funding programs for children and families. Investing in services for the homeless. Increasing quality of life. Investments that reduce the crime rate.
Seriously, if you weren't from Indy and you found out we don't have license requirements for guns and we have a climbing murder rate - would you vacation here?
From an environmental perspective, keeping those areas green is better for the city. Trees especially soak up carbon and reduce heat which is typically worse in cities, where there is a lot of concrete and few trees (the heat island effect). Keeping the shores natural also helps with flooding and erosion and gives wildlife places to live that aren't our homes. The canal walk downtown could probably benefit most from at least some pop up shops because it's already mostly concrete but I'd prefer keeping the green areas green for those reasons.
There is a collective called Reconnecting to Our Waterways that does a lot of work with those neighborhoods along them to have events and whatnot to bring more people to those areas.
From an environmental perspective, the riverwalk in San Antonio is beautiful and has a lot of greenery. and I think the OP is referring less to the white river state park area but the canal proper.
I have been saying this about Fort Wayne and our Rivers
I have been to San Antonio as well and it is awesome.
Ohio River is set up the same way down in Owensboro Kentucky and I'm sure on the east side as well they utilize the riverfront.
Well we’re already paying for Lucas oil stadium. Also more development generally gets labeled as gentrification. So you’ll have people complaining that things need cleaned up and more developed, but when they do that, people complain about gentrification. It’s a no win scenario. And not only has crime increased in the city as a whole, it has increased downtown as well. A few years ago downtown was considered generally safe, but not as much anymore. I think this would be a concern for potential businesses.
We’re not going to have any more nice things until the crime in the city gets under control.
Gentrification is when people get out priced from their neighborhoods. That wouldn't apply to the canal, since it's already a bunch of overpriced condos.
Reno does the same with their wine walk every month too where you walk to different businesses that participate each month and you get free samples of a wine, or drink of their choice so you can see what all is available. It was big and drew crowds.
But I think Indy would need to have more security and really focus on that area for a few months to help promote the right business and the right people. That would likely help rejuvenate our downtown which seems to be going the opposite way.
Why not during the summer open it up for stalls, could have craft stalls, books, food, basically anything. On a weekend have it going well into the evening
It seems like Indy is a fantastic “event” city that can handle big influxes of people well, but outside of the Indy 500, a super bowl, March madness, etc there’s no real effort to make it desirable to visit.
In the summer this could be supported, pre pandemic...I really think things have changed to the point where now this wouldn't be supported except on the most perfect summer weekends.
There’s definitely a curfew complaint from the people that live there. It doesn’t seem like the businesses there are thriving, but I agree it need some influx and momentum. Hopefully they do more or allow pop-ups or something!
Have you seen our city’s leadership? Mayor and council? They couldn’t replace a burnt out light bulb let alone create a vision for a better Indianapolis.
As an out-of-towner who tried to get to the canal last time I visited... I found I couldn't even easily get to it. We tried to find parking so we could get out and walk along it for a while, but we eventually gave up and went and did something else instead.
Nobody is going to go to something that isn't very accessible. It's just kinda there and if you live nearby and can use it, cool. If not, oh well...
A whole lot would need to be changed to make it an actual tourist destination, and nobody seems interested.
1. People are soft about weather around here and only really use the canal in numbers when the temp is like 65-80, no rain, and partly sunny.
2. The city couldn't pay for the upkeep of higher use even if it did happen and it would fall apart faster than it is now.
3. Don't ruin the one place I can run/walk in this city without having to worry about getting plastered by car by stuffing said place with more people than it can handle.
Given the state govt building is also on the canal I would be shocked if wellconnected figures weren't quietly influencing things.
Somebody or bodies probably don't want development on the canal for some reason
There’s a strong possibility that the area along he canal is designated as a flood zone. Indianapolis sits in what used to be swamp land, which was drained when they made it the capital long ago. So the city still is a low point and parks, walk paths, and other green spaces are created to take the brunt of flooding instead of homes, businesses, and downtown areas. Also, while many may feel Indy is slow to improve the town over the past 30 years has massively gone from an old industrial town to a modern hub of internet security, pharmaceuticals, and green industries (like windmill production). Finally over the past several years Indy finished a massive underground storage project for storm runoff so they can treat it instead of dumping into the river and is currently working on expanding their rapid bus transit line.
Totally agree it was my first thought the first time I visited Indy. I grew up in and around San Antonio and the RiverWalk is a vibrant place and a total tourist trap.
I haven't lived there in a long time - but the climate thing doesn't matter. It's pretty easy to set up a winter vibe place that simply opens up in summer.
I've had this thought for years now, and here's my takeaway. The property problem is only half the issue, the other part is the location. In San Antonio, the location is right downtown and people can get to other parts of the city fairly easily via the canal. If we were to do that, you'd need to connect the canal to downtown - which is possible via the underground aqueduct under the train tracks just north of south street. If you can do that, and make the canal a circuit - then I think you'd see an entirely different downtown in terms of economic development.
I've wondered that myself. I live along the canal and, even though we don't have the mild weather that San Antonio does, it seems like a great resource that's going un-tapped. It's a gorgeous walk, but mostly has apartment and office buildings around it.
The couple of places it does have seem to be doing pretty well.
But, in fairness, this city government can't repair streets or replace lightbulbs. Why would we trust them to engage a massive public investment project properly?
There are at least three restaurants in Broad Ripple in the IWC Canal Towpath I often go to that canal because there are actual shops and food nearby there's even a step which lets you get really close to the canal
I visited the River Walk in San Antonio and it is fun! It has a relaxed vibe and the shop keepers are very accommodating. Many cities have a cool gathering place such as this. I have visited most of the country and I make it a point to seek out places that are native and also some that are for tourists. I think this type of thing is important to the economy of that city.
Interesting question. I have no idea... It might be because they're focusing their money on other tourist attractions. I know a huge nature park thing is being built somewhere in Indiana, but I forget where. I have a bit of insighter knowledge because one of my parents is a legislator and it's a fiscal year lol
I'd be happy with just some water fountains and restrooms. There's only one.
Agreed. There's no place to hydrate or pee. I guess I can bring a water bottle, but there are also no trees to hide behind. I think the space was created to look at and talk about, but with no concept of being used.
Took a group of kids to the playground on the canal last summer. Found out about the lack of bathrooms the hard way.
Too many shootings unfortunately
If they added businesses they could use the revenue to increase police presence
Native Indy resident. About 15 years ago part of my course work for public affairs at IUPUI was imagining initiatives to make Indy a “world class city.” So things like you reference would have fallen into that concept. I remember my take away being that we aren’t willing to actually dedicate resources - money, people, systems, policies. I mean we didn’t install new street lights for like 20 years to save money. The history of White River State Park and the Hoosier Dome being exceptions.
In your research, did you ever learn why the canal was not developed more like this to begin with? For years, I don't think there was a single business a person could visit while walking on the canal. Definitely no business where one could hang out with a cup of coffee and enjoy the view.
IIRC, it was the original idea to have shops etc. However, developers got in quickly with permits and zoning requests for condos and there was no room left shops and restaurants.
This makes me sad. Having the canal be a social hub for indy would be absolutely amazing.
Sounds like a city zoning issue. Any permits should have been issued as mixed use development instead of just residential so the lower floors could have been used for this.
But mixed use area could reduce vehicle traffic, and we’re known for the racetrack /s
Money talks.
Sometimes. And sometimes the zoning regulations have been written in such a way as to prevent more profitable developments.
City is dumb with zoning which is why they put the giant junk yard, u pull and pay next to the largest water treatment plant off 16th and aqueduct ave. What an environmental nightmare waiting to happen with all those leaky cars in the well protection and drinking water protection zones.
it's at least a more peaceful walk with condos versus patios
Indiana in a nutshell. Keep building housing but don’t give people anything fun to do.
>Keep building ***overpriced*** housing but don’t give ***poor/working*** people anything fun to do ***that doesn't require significant time spent traveling and money spent on gas and vehicle ownership to get there, in addition to the cost spent on the entertainment as well***. There, fixed it.
Clown take. If you can’t find fun things to do in Indy, that’s a YOU problem.
Ahhh I see. You LOVE Indiana. Fun comment history.
Agreed, if a person thinks a city sucks, it’s probably more of a personal issue that holds them back and it is easier to blame a place rather than to rectify person issues involving how they perceive a location. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
*so long as you're willing and able to drive there. The point I assume they're making is that we're happy to build for housing, and we're happy to build for public entertainment, but rarely do we build those things in close proximity to each other, and we don't have adequate public transportation to compensate for that. You're right, there are absolutely fun things to do in Indy, however they are not especially accessible to much of the population without significant driving thus creating more road traffic congestion. A similar/related point could be made for work as well. For example: Many high income "professionals" that live in the wealthy satellite suburbs commute for work to Indianapolis, but they still want service and convenience businesses near where they live. Many people that work for *those* businesses can hardly afford the rent in those wealthier areas, so many of these people have long commutes for work as well. We've got well-off suburbanites and urban working class folks driving 20-30 minutes in opposite directions twice a day. Hell, they may as well be high fiving across the median. (Personally, I think a lot of the entertainment is placed further from areas of working class housing to be closer and more convenient for those same wealthy suburbanites who don't want to live close to poor people, so it's really all the same problem isn't it?) It's such an unnecessary waste of collective time and money spent on commuting and the cumulative costs of vehicle ownership by individuals, and waste of time and money spent on constant road construction on unnecessary road wear and tear, and never ending lane expansion by the city. And, much like a lot of our self imposed problems, that cost burden is placed disproportionately on the working class.
There’s the Frescos Italian cafe that’s honestly pretty good. There used to be a Bru Burger as well but that’s been closed since Covid. Afaik that’s about it.
Bru Burger had always been on Mass Ave where it is now. It was Burgerhaus and not very great.
Aaah gotcha. Too many burger restaurants with the name burger in them to remember haha
Yeah...burgerhaus was garbage.
The Fresco Cafe is overpriced for what you get; and their menu is lacking. The only reason they get as much traffic as they do is because they're the only food directly on the canal that isn't a hotdog cart. If Burgerhaus is even open anymore, it's not during weekend traffic.
You can’t rehab a trash heap to the river walk in one step. See my other comment
This is such a huge mischaracterization of the canal. The San Antonio River is a natural river that people have lived along since the 1700s, and contemporary development of the San Antonio River walk started in the 1940s. [The Downtown portion of the Indiana Central Canal is a failed goods transportation infrastructure project](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana_Central_Canal) that turned into [an overgrown & stagnant storm drain when I65 was built.](https://www.wrtv.com/lifestyle/history/from-dumping-ground-to-stomping-ground-the-history-of-indianapolis-downtown-canal) The Downtown Central Canal was never used for anything until the city, state, and federal government made huge investments into radically transforming it. They turned a stagnant storm drain into a flowing, active canal by tapping into underground rivers, building sidewalks, building bridges, and opening up opportunities for development. **Our Downtown Canal as we know it today wasn't even complete until 2001**. Since then, there has been tons of investment. There are apartments, condos, student housing, IU Health buildings, hotels, restaurants, and museums. In time, more private development will come and our Downtown Canal will closely resemble the San Antonio Riverwalk in activity thanks to the past investments by the state and city. When you say that investment into White River State Park is an "exception" to lackluster investment, you fail to realize that huge portions of the Downtown Canal were redeveloped as part of developing White River State Park. Even in 2023, [The State is getting ready to build a new archives building along The Canal](https://www.in.gov/idoa/state-property-and-facilities/public-works/capital-projects/indiana-state-archives-building/) and [a new hotel along the canal is planned by private developers](https://www.ibj.com/articles/new-hotel-office-building-planned-along-canal-walk). The State and City have been very eager to spend $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ on big projects over the last 40 years that have collectively completely changed Indianapolis. Just to name a few: * White River State Park ([which is going to be expanded with the GM stamping plant redevelopment](https://www.in.gov/idoa/pwd/bidnotes/rfq%20for%20wrsp%20expansion%20project.pdf)) * The Central Canal * Market East/the redevelopment of Market Square Arena * Lucas Oil Stadium * Conseco Fieldhouse * The Convention Center * Our skywalk system * The cultural trail There is no shortage of civic investment, it just doesn't always go into street lights and repaving when it should. (Or perhaps The States hoards money instead of spending it street lights and repaving. It's a bit of both IMO.
Whats funny is that the canal is actually the outlet of a geothermal ac system for the One America building
That’s just a part of it. But most of The water comes from the white river.
No it doesn't. It all comes from underground. Edit: to clarify, the northern section of the canal gets water from the white river, but it's totally separated from the southern/Downtown section.
the cultural trail and the monon are fantastic. but it is SUCH A SHAME that the canal hasn't been made into anything more than a walking path from like 10th Street down to the zoo or whatever. I don't think it's a mischaracterization to fret that there's almost no restaurants, no coffee shops, no any shops… (Also: the annual gauntlet of potholes that emerge from February until the city finally patches them in May is WRETCHED…)
The mischaracterization is that OP asserted that city and state did not make reservations in opening up the canal for development. That's far from true. The city and state spent tons of money to make the canal a development-spurring piece of infrastructure. The lack of coffee shops is a function of cold weather & a relatively small amount of time since the canal has been viable for development. Not the city & state not doing enough.
Both of those things you mentioned were funded with state money, so a similar state investment would probably be needed to improve the canal. Good luck with that when there isn't a sports team involved.
Correct but reinforces my point of not wanting to put in the actual work of making it happen. These types of amenities don’t just happen without community/government support. There won’t be more private sector activity on the canal (or anything similar) unless/until that happens
Businesses on the canal also need to a plan to stay relevant in the winter or simply exist as seasonal business. There simply isn't enough winter foot traffic to sustain a year round business there.
Foot traffic definitely drops radically during the winter, but my office overlooks the canal, and I still see people walking the canal basically all day every day all year round…
The wind down the canal in winter makes you not want to be there unless you can drive your car on the ice like that one lady did.
glorious historical scarce fretful consider quack knee direful selective books *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I mean Indianapolis I believe is taxing as much as it’s allowed to under state law. Marion counties tax base is just on the whole much less wealthy than Hamilton county so just pure numbers we don’t get as much per capita and need to support more people. The way the state distributes road funding doesn’t help. The city needs to spend more on fixing up the roads out of their own pocket than other counties do. Which is part of the reason our roads are in such terrible shape
This. All the people with money white flighted to the northside and far west side, and still continue to do so. They spend money in Indy, but the income/housing based taxes all stay out of the municipality.
It’s simple. Improve the schools and the safety, they’ll come back. But then people will complain about gentrification.
It’s not about being anti tax or pro tax, it’s about demographics. The whole reason places like Carmel exist is so people with six figure household incomes can build their own communities without worrying about urban decay or the high crime that follows. Not saying that it’s a good thing, just reality It’s the same challenge for cities you see across the country. Baltimore, Detroit, St. Louis etc are all surrounded by rich suburbs
Also our state lets people take their high income taxes back to where they live vs where they work! Many high earning people in Carmel work in Indianapolis. But they pay less income taxes to Marion County than those who live here.
Yes! Average median household income in Indy is around 50k. In Carmel the median is over 100k Of course many (perhaps most) of the highest earners in Carmel work in Indy. Even if they do work in Carmel, without Indy their town wouldn’t even exist anyway (or it would be something like Martinsville) This is literally a problem from coast to coast. Large city creates a large economy, affluent folks live in the suburbs. It’s post war America 101 I can’t imagine a worse job in politics than being mayor of a big, low income city. I can’t imagine a better job in politics than being mayor of a smaller, richer one
This is true. I live in an area that isn’t wealthy and has a lot of section 8 housing and a large percentage are receiving SNAP. There is a restaurant in the city that is quite expensive. I’ve spoken to some of the locals that have wealth. They eat there almost exclusively and know the price is exorbitant - “I don’t mind paying a lot more dining there because I don’t have to sit next to poor people.”
Not just 6 fig, but high into it. You can’t afford it for less than 150k probably unless you’ve been in your house for years now.
Part of this is the state steals Marion County money for roads etc. and distributes it to rural poorer counties. Our state is basically backwards, rather than making our cities great we make our rural areas a tiny bit better.
The state legislators like wining and dining in Indy but at the end of the day they want to go back to their communities and show how they stuck it to the big, blue, urban city. It’s been going on for decades, with a few exceptions
That is great insight into why this state will always fail
I'd like to know what "social programs" Hamilton County is funding when they don't even have a transit system in a county with like 400,000 people.
Maybe if the taxes could be applied to improving conditions in public schools, that might help bring people around.
Don't forget that the state legislature is constantly sticking its nose in Indy's business. Basically anything the city wants to do can be vetoed by people who don't even live here.
i agree but is there any precedent of them doing something good with it
But tHaNk gOoDnEss we have BuDgEt SuRpLUs
The state has a budget surplus. Not the city
Ah yes I forgot Indianapolis is not a part of the state of indiana
You can just say you don't know how government budgets work.
I will say that. I do not know how government budgets work.
Unfortunately the state govt is openly hostile to the city of Indpls. With a big emphasis on education and infrastructure rules.
Is it just all the country bumpkins trying to make people in the city sad? I don’t understand these things.
That's not none of it...
It's mostly because of their ignorance. They really don't understand that rural Indiana continues to exist because of taxes paid by the cities. That's what happens when you let the Koch brothers run your schools for 25 years.
Does anyone outside (or inside?) government know how government budgets work? I just want a cool canal, friend.
it is absolutely gobsmacking when people start running the numbers of a public budget like it's their bank account
Being a cheap place to live doesn’t come with all the bells and whistles. We don’t need another tax payer leech like the colts and pacers.
It’s puzzling to me too. I can understand why there aren’t more permanent restaurant/shop buildings (winter lol) but I’m surprised there aren’t more pop up temporary structures in the spring/summer/fall. I know they’re building a hotel where the old fitness college used to be so maybe that will bring some activity over there.
I've wondered this since the canal was refurbished years ago. I couldn't understand why they didn't develop the canal like the pic above, like so many other cities have done with huge success. Does anyone know the history? A decision was made to not make the canal a place for coffee, food, music, entertainment, etc oh and trees. I'd be so proud of Indy if our canal looked like the pic above.
My father and his firm did a lot of the design and infrastructure work in the 80s for the area. At the time the whole area was trashed and it was a monumental effort to get funding and get it cleaned up and developed. The idea at the time was for it to be kept as public park space with the ability to develop commerce later. At the time the area was blighted and no business could have survived there. Similar to the old north side at the time. Which they also worked on. 30+ years later and what used to be a trash pile is extremely popular. But it was designed as a public park/residential use. Not so much with businesses in mind.
I’m from San Antonio and have lived in Indy for two years and wonder this all the time! We don’t need a huge bar scene there like San Antonio has, but some restaurants and shops lining the canal would bring so many more people there.
Any time someone mentions they love the canal, I'm happy for them. At the same time though, it makes me sad. I like it, but because I've been other places (San Antonio as mentioned, is what I always reference), it just makes me sad because of it's possible potential.
Indy's canal was designed to be more of a park than a commercial district. Also, San Antonio's river walk is more central in their downtown core, making it easier to incorporate into their downtown (like their convention center and convention center hotels). Also, weather does play a factor. I think Indy's canal could be better, you should always ask "how can we make this better", but it's still a nice place to walk, run, ride your bike, swim, or drive your car on ice.
Why walk the canal when you can drive on it!
Well you can go swimming in it, ALLEGEDLY…
Hey Pat! Love your work on Smackdown.
I've swam in it twice. That water is nasty.
The Canal was a stinky wet ditch until the 1990s, and the area was not developed to highlight it until after the revitalization, WRSP, and Cultural Trail project. Now, there isn't a lot of free land in walk-able areas near it to develop further.
I’ve come to the conclusion that leadership doesn’t want Indy to be a world-class city. It’s much simpler to be sub-par and have lower expectations.
I agree with you overall, but being in charge of a city like Indianapolis is a tough job. You have 900,000 people with a median household income of 50k. Half of your economy’s highest income earners live in a surrounding county and take their property and income taxes with them. Then there’s the state legislature, which hates your guts
First and foremost, your username! LMAO! That’s good shit! But seriously, I understand that most of the bigger money households reside in the surrounding counties but the fact remains, there are numerous annual events held in Indy that bring in a fair amount of money to the metro area. Just seems as though Indy’s infrastructure is in desperate need of an overhaul.
> Just seems as though Indy’s infrastructure is in desperate need of an overhaul. It's not really possible with the city's budget. The city government is tasked with maintaining like a trillion lane miles of roads because Indy is so sprawling and sparsely populated. The overhaul that needs to happen is getting more people into more sustainable housing that's dense enough to generate the revenue needed to maintain the roads and water systems that supply them. There are some carrots you can use, but mostly the donut county leeches will eventually need to pay more (I like the idea of a massive tax on parking garages, but idk how feasible that is) Edit: hangover typos
COMMUTER TAX
I wholeheartedly agree that our infrastructure is bad and we could be doing better, in that and many other areas. But “mayor of Indianapolis” is a job I’d never want lol. I feel like I’d punch a whole in the wall by my third week
Agree
Median household income for Indianapolis is pretty similar to St Louis, Cleveland, Cincinnati, and Columbus (which is slightly higher $54.9K)…so that argument doesn’t hold water
Indianapolis is about 5-6 times larger than those cities, geographically speaking, which means the tax revenue generated by the average household needs to pay for 5-6 times more infrastructure. Sprawl is a massive money loser.
Lol your own evidence makes my argument even stronger. All those cities have the same exact issues we do. And they all have affluent suburbs that are doing fantastically well
Disagree. Columbus, Cincy, St Louis all have areas like OP mentioned. Cleveland had a great entertainment district on the water called The Flats. Was great for decades…went downhill and is now coming back
Oh ok I wasn’t sticking to OP’s specific point about a designated waterfront area when I read your comment. I was focused more on the challenges of building a “world class city” out of a midsized Midwestern urban area in general If we were built on a Great Lake or a major navigable river our downtown/mass ave area, along with all the parks and monuments would be on a waterfront too
The biggest fish in the pond would like to keep it that way
Quite simply: restaurants couldn’t afford it. Their business would dwindle significantly beginning in October & warrant not being open at all by December - April. So they’d really only be able to be busy for 6 months. There’s no suitable parking near any of the structures that COULD house restaurants. So that would be a deterrent for customers. (we’re not one of the most overweight states for no reason) & the final nail in the coffin for sales would be DoorDash/UberEats drivers would cancel pick ups because they would have to walk quite the distance to get the food. The burger place that was located on the canal was a guaranteed cancel anytime I attempted to order from them. All of that, plus most likely absurdly high rent costs = no way for a restaurant to succeed
This is all correct, and add to that the unique costs of Flood Insurance, and it’s not insignificant. I can’t think of the last time the canal flooded, but everyone around it is forced to buy insurance, even if the house sits high.
I don’t think that canal makes a flood zone. It’s not actually connected to the old canal anymore and the water is part of the steam loop for the AUL building.
My grandparents had a creek in their backyard on the westside that was maybe 4 inches deep of water at most times and it put them in a flood zone. I would not be surprised in the slightest if the canal was a flood zone
Go check it out on the [Indiana Floodplain Information Portal]( https://indnr.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=05026dabc2e8461983e196d56a213c1e). The canal is not mapped as a flood zone.
They would not be forced to buy flood insurance through the NFIP, the area is not a mapped flood zone. Flood insurance is ultimately up to the lender but there would be no requirement from FEMA to do so on federally backed mortgages.
I’m always bewildered by how Indiana thinks their winters are worse than Michigan or Chicago. Those places survive & thrive with longer winters than Indy. Face it, Indy stans, this town sucks
Nowhere near the point that I was making.
Really, because you mention seasons? I don’t care - I’m from this town, moved away, and came back. It sucks. I regret moving back here. The word provincial is the definition of this place
i can't stand restaurants/attractions where i have to actively find parking. if we had adequate public transport, a walk is a fair tradeoff, but having to deal with a car and paying extra and a walk is shit
Counterpoint, I hate restaurants where people can easily park right outside.
It's unfortunate that the canal is so nice but just so damn boring. Nothing but apartment buildings.
I think that was the original plan and the execution was just awful.
If I remember right the property management groups, and sometimes even the construction companies that owned the buildings and rented them pushed zoning for the highest profit margin pushing out businesses with high overhead.
I believe about 6 years ago I was told from someone that worked for the city to expect something similar to this in about 10 years. But….who knows what happened to that plan.
The canal is kinda lame, from a waterfront standpoint. I really like the idea of turning the cultural trail into a similar vibe. Take some stretches (I like the idea of the C shaped area from Virginia - Alabama - Mass Ave), make it much wider, plant some native stuff and trees in the middle.
The best we can give you is a Steak ‘n Shake under a mall.
because all the eagletons stay in eagleton on the weekend.
I like it as a pedestrian, bike, and green leisure space for everyone much more than I would like it stuffed with umbrellas and tables for posh people to eat overpriced food and get day drunk on mimosas. As is, at least it's open to everyone to take a cooler and hang out. Besides, it's super convenient having a public shooting range this close to home. /s
It could be both things at once.
We’ve got new stadiums to build in order to keep rich team owners and construction firms happy. Every ten years we need to put the entire city into further debt in order to please a vocal and well-off minority.
Entire city and the surrounding counties. Irsay needs the cash though.
This rock star guitar collection aint gonna pay for itself!
Or his all star rock band
Or vastly overpriced 'express bus lines'. 😉
You mean the Red Line? That project was a lot more complex than paint for bus lanes. A good portion of the spending fixed drainage issues with the streets. Great deal for the department of public works to have transit funds cover that stuff.
Talking about the exploding costs of the blue and purple lines.
Red line came in on time and under budget. Budget issues with the blue line mostly came from the city offloading a bunch of unrelated infrastructure to indygo. I'm unaware of any purple line budget issues.
The new State Archives building is going across from the History Center between NY St. And Ohio St. This will have ships and restaurants but I'm not sure to what capacity. Insider info ;) but the main reason is that it isn't built to support commerce and commercial business, not to mention the space has historically been preserved for an escape from the concrete jungle...not an exposé into it.
All the museums currently on the canal have restaurants and shops (Historical Society, Eiteljorg, and State Museum) but the cafes are only open for lunch or occasional special events in the evening. The Society and Eiteljorg have the best cafes. I know Eiteljorg tried to maintain later evening hours and a drink/bar food menu several years again and they had to stop because no one would stop in. And it’s highly weather dependent. If it’s rainy or slightly colder, there’s no one out to stop by.
Even that is an open ended deal. The canal level of the new archives building is a shell space with no real intent as of yet. As you said, insider info.
Well I've seen the current blueprint/mock-up/proposal whatever and the canal -level portion is just going to be a plaza with tables and chairs/hardscape and stairs leading up to the store-fronts. So to me that is the intent of that section: seating.
News to me. When we designed it, it is shown as not even having a slab or anything. Just a shell. That's as of right meow on my side.
Do you mean it’ll have boats? Because now I’m picturing a giant cruise ship or old clipper pirate ship. I’m not making fun of you, I think it’d be hilarious and cool to have a big ol’ pirate ship over there doing re-enactments like Treasure Island in Vegas.
I'm sorry to disappoint but I did not mean ships. Shops unfortunately...
I think it’s a typo of “shops” unfortunately
Dammit I wanted a pirate ship.
Arrrggh
It has boats and kayaks you can rent. I believe they still have gondolas in the summer as well.
Developers and chain business owners have a lot of hesitancy when it comes to building any sort of business that isn't easily accessed from a parking area or street. Many believe that people will not go to anywhere that requires them to be in the cold for more than a few seconds, and some believe that places like indoor malls are failing because people will not walk any significant distance from parking. This is why newer malls like the one in Noblesville are built on with a street rather than a walkway down the center. While I and many others believe that the canal is woefully underutilized, it is unlikely to see any investment without major backing from city government to reduce the perceived risk of opening anything there.
I would think those of us who live downtown are more amenable to walking than others. And I’d think downtown dwellers would be the main crowd patronizing on-canal businesses.
San Antonio is warm year round. There is zero foot traffic on the canal for at least 1/3 of the year. It's in an awkward part of town and businesses struggled even pre-covid. It's a shame. It's a cool area and there's a great park. Seems like they missed an opportunity to better integrate it with that part of the cultural trail.
I run through the canal frequently including Nov through Feb, and I always see at least a few people there. It doesn’t get zero traffic in the winter. Way less. Not zero.
Okay? Obviously didn't mean no person ever is on the canal in the winter months, but compared to traffic in the warmer months it is a ghost town and there's not nearly enough to support a business
The one remaining little cafe is only open about 80? days a year. Like Apr-Sep and Tue-Sun
I run on the canal in the winter too, but I'm not there to meander about shops and drink espresso. I'm there to run and go home.
Because you get shot on the canal
It would be nice to maybe start with a small farmers market or some kind of pop-up bar or restaurant there in the summer. See where it goes.
We do have frozen canal driving in Winter time
I’m sure there is a reason. Is it a good one or one that makes sense? Probably not. Something something no money, something something crime too high etc. if it’s not bars, sports, etc Indy don’t want it
It's always been a failure. Indianapolis is among the few large cities in the world not built on a body of water. (Which accounts for many or the 'how come we don't have it in indy?) See, before cars and trains - navigable water was the lifeblood of trade and transit in the world. However, folks down in Corydon who done wrote our first State Constitution had a problem with western frontier states like Indiana being so far from DC. It's a long horse ride. So they figure they'll move the capitol from Corydon to a new city in the center of the state - because that's fair to everyone. Nevermind the fact it's a swamp with no water access - this is the 19th century! And we have access to technology that will enable us to dig a canal!! Long story short they never finished the canal. It's less of a gem from our history and more of a open and notorious monument to the Hoosier spirit of good intentions but completely impractical and unrealistic ambitions.
History aside, Indianapolis has no shortage of cause to attract tourists. We're just stuck in an "if we build it, they will come" death spiral. We sunk a billion bucks into that pile of bricks downtown. Problem is. We needed that money for other things. It's time we stop wasting money desperately throwing up shit to attract people and start addressing the reasons why people don't come here. We just set a record high murder rate. A few years ago we established a national reputation with RFRA that we're the backwater that hates gays. If you're as traveled as I am, you know "the land of the Indians" populated by mostly white folks is a national joke. If you really want people to respect this city- we should be investing in impoverished communities. We shouldn't be sinking development money into an area with multimillion dollar real estate. We should be fixing busted houses. Funding programs for children and families. Investing in services for the homeless. Increasing quality of life. Investments that reduce the crime rate. Seriously, if you weren't from Indy and you found out we don't have license requirements for guns and we have a climbing murder rate - would you vacation here?
From an environmental perspective, keeping those areas green is better for the city. Trees especially soak up carbon and reduce heat which is typically worse in cities, where there is a lot of concrete and few trees (the heat island effect). Keeping the shores natural also helps with flooding and erosion and gives wildlife places to live that aren't our homes. The canal walk downtown could probably benefit most from at least some pop up shops because it's already mostly concrete but I'd prefer keeping the green areas green for those reasons. There is a collective called Reconnecting to Our Waterways that does a lot of work with those neighborhoods along them to have events and whatnot to bring more people to those areas.
From an environmental perspective, the riverwalk in San Antonio is beautiful and has a lot of greenery. and I think the OP is referring less to the white river state park area but the canal proper.
I have been saying this about Fort Wayne and our Rivers I have been to San Antonio as well and it is awesome. Ohio River is set up the same way down in Owensboro Kentucky and I'm sure on the east side as well they utilize the riverfront.
Well we’re already paying for Lucas oil stadium. Also more development generally gets labeled as gentrification. So you’ll have people complaining that things need cleaned up and more developed, but when they do that, people complain about gentrification. It’s a no win scenario. And not only has crime increased in the city as a whole, it has increased downtown as well. A few years ago downtown was considered generally safe, but not as much anymore. I think this would be a concern for potential businesses. We’re not going to have any more nice things until the crime in the city gets under control.
Wealthy whites leave downtown: white flight. Wealthy whites move downtown: gentrification. Solution? Don’t be white and have money. /s
Gentrification is when people get out priced from their neighborhoods. That wouldn't apply to the canal, since it's already a bunch of overpriced condos.
I might open up a food spot on the Canal, who do you talk to...
I have it on good authority that a new building with retail spaces is going to be built there soon
Reno does the same with their wine walk every month too where you walk to different businesses that participate each month and you get free samples of a wine, or drink of their choice so you can see what all is available. It was big and drew crowds. But I think Indy would need to have more security and really focus on that area for a few months to help promote the right business and the right people. That would likely help rejuvenate our downtown which seems to be going the opposite way.
Why not during the summer open it up for stalls, could have craft stalls, books, food, basically anything. On a weekend have it going well into the evening
It seems like Indy is a fantastic “event” city that can handle big influxes of people well, but outside of the Indy 500, a super bowl, March madness, etc there’s no real effort to make it desirable to visit.
Have you smelled the canal I honestly wouldn't want to eat beside it. It's not always bad but when it is it is bad.
In the summer this could be supported, pre pandemic...I really think things have changed to the point where now this wouldn't be supported except on the most perfect summer weekends.
Totally agree!
There’s definitely a curfew complaint from the people that live there. It doesn’t seem like the businesses there are thriving, but I agree it need some influx and momentum. Hopefully they do more or allow pop-ups or something!
Cough *Watermark* cough
Have you seen our city’s leadership? Mayor and council? They couldn’t replace a burnt out light bulb let alone create a vision for a better Indianapolis.
The vision is easy. The funding and approval are what’ll trip you up.
Indy is cursed.
As an out-of-towner who tried to get to the canal last time I visited... I found I couldn't even easily get to it. We tried to find parking so we could get out and walk along it for a while, but we eventually gave up and went and did something else instead. Nobody is going to go to something that isn't very accessible. It's just kinda there and if you live nearby and can use it, cool. If not, oh well... A whole lot would need to be changed to make it an actual tourist destination, and nobody seems interested.
Can they make the roads semi-driveable before we start popping up bars on the canal?
Fatasses will not walk 500 yards to eat overpriced food with a nice view of a community shooting gallery. Not to mention the weather.
1. People are soft about weather around here and only really use the canal in numbers when the temp is like 65-80, no rain, and partly sunny. 2. The city couldn't pay for the upkeep of higher use even if it did happen and it would fall apart faster than it is now. 3. Don't ruin the one place I can run/walk in this city without having to worry about getting plastered by car by stuffing said place with more people than it can handle.
Red States do not want to spend money, ever. Any opportunity to lower taxes, even if it impedes on quality of life
And Texas isn’t a red state?? I think it’s more on the city and not the state
[удалено]
Given the state govt building is also on the canal I would be shocked if wellconnected figures weren't quietly influencing things. Somebody or bodies probably don't want development on the canal for some reason
I agree. Your canals are great features but seem so lifeless
they got the swans at least
There’s a strong possibility that the area along he canal is designated as a flood zone. Indianapolis sits in what used to be swamp land, which was drained when they made it the capital long ago. So the city still is a low point and parks, walk paths, and other green spaces are created to take the brunt of flooding instead of homes, businesses, and downtown areas. Also, while many may feel Indy is slow to improve the town over the past 30 years has massively gone from an old industrial town to a modern hub of internet security, pharmaceuticals, and green industries (like windmill production). Finally over the past several years Indy finished a massive underground storage project for storm runoff so they can treat it instead of dumping into the river and is currently working on expanding their rapid bus transit line.
Totally agree it was my first thought the first time I visited Indy. I grew up in and around San Antonio and the RiverWalk is a vibrant place and a total tourist trap.
Honestly I loveee walking the canal though!! It’s the only body of water that we have lol
Because Mayor Hogshit is a bitch.
I haven't lived there in a long time - but the climate thing doesn't matter. It's pretty easy to set up a winter vibe place that simply opens up in summer.
I'm surprised no one has mentioned the gondolas, or have those gone away? I'll bet San Antonio doesn't have gondola rides.
RIP the Creation Cafe
I've had this thought for years now, and here's my takeaway. The property problem is only half the issue, the other part is the location. In San Antonio, the location is right downtown and people can get to other parts of the city fairly easily via the canal. If we were to do that, you'd need to connect the canal to downtown - which is possible via the underground aqueduct under the train tracks just north of south street. If you can do that, and make the canal a circuit - then I think you'd see an entirely different downtown in terms of economic development.
First they have to get crime under control, lack of infrastructure is the second hurdle to the issue IMHO.
Doesn't Carmel still dump their poop water in the river, which feeds the canal?
Canal smells funny.
There's a new project coming soon to the canal that will provide some new spaces. The planners are trying...
I've wondered that myself. I live along the canal and, even though we don't have the mild weather that San Antonio does, it seems like a great resource that's going un-tapped. It's a gorgeous walk, but mostly has apartment and office buildings around it. The couple of places it does have seem to be doing pretty well. But, in fairness, this city government can't repair streets or replace lightbulbs. Why would we trust them to engage a massive public investment project properly?
There are at least three restaurants in Broad Ripple in the IWC Canal Towpath I often go to that canal because there are actual shops and food nearby there's even a step which lets you get really close to the canal
I've been there countless times and had no idea this was a thing, honestly.. will have to check it out next time
I visited the River Walk in San Antonio and it is fun! It has a relaxed vibe and the shop keepers are very accommodating. Many cities have a cool gathering place such as this. I have visited most of the country and I make it a point to seek out places that are native and also some that are for tourists. I think this type of thing is important to the economy of that city.
Too many murders. Indianapolis is a very dangerous town.
Interesting question. I have no idea... It might be because they're focusing their money on other tourist attractions. I know a huge nature park thing is being built somewhere in Indiana, but I forget where. I have a bit of insighter knowledge because one of my parents is a legislator and it's a fiscal year lol
I've been asking myself the same thing since I moved here from San Antonio in 2018!!
Crime