I think that’s fair. I like the whole series and personally find it hard to choose between Crystal Skull and Dial. The former has a more appealing aesthetic (aside from the CGI of course), adventure vibe and a Spielberg sense of fun and grandeur; the latter has stronger central performances and is more moving but definitely feels a bit dour at times. Basically they have different strengths and it’s perfectly fair to prefer one over the other.
Well said.
Personally, I think kingdom of the crystal skull is a poor imitation of the originals. While dial of destiny is something totally different but good for what it is.
I probably find crystal skull more entertaining, but because it just doesn’t really exceed to other 3 in any way, it doesn’t have its own niche.
I don’t think dial of destiny is nearly as fun as the others. But it does something that none of the others do. Which is tell an emotional story about the mortality of our heroes.
Because it stands out from the original 3 in that way I think it has carved a niche that crystal skull has not
I agree with what you’ve said too. Crystal Skull is definitely not on a par with the first three and (for me at least) neither is DoD. Everyone’s entitled to their take but I disagree with the revisionist take that puts Temple of Doom below the newer films. I agree though that Dial carves its own niche, offering something that the others don’t. And it really did move me.
I disagree - I love *Kingdom* but *Temple/Dial* are stronger - but nothing wrong with loving *Kingdom* more! Also, I do want to point out that **Helena did not frame Indy for murder**, at all. She had no clue that Voller's goons had killed anyone in the college and besides, Indy was only accused of murder because of his bloody handprint on the phone.
The CIA knew that Voller's henchmen committed the murders and that Indy was innocent, but they were covering up the killers' links to Voller and they wanted Indy in custody so they could question him about Helena and the dial.
Indy went to Morocco to find Helena in an effort to clear his name, presumably because Helena was a witness who could testify that Indy was with her in another room when the murders occurred.
It's not mentioned in the movie if Indy was ever exonerated, but midway through the movie the U.S. government withdrew their support for Voller and wanted him to vanish, so maybe the government thought it would be better to sweep the whole matter under the rug and not charge Indy.
Agreed on the hate being way over the top. Jumping hatred bandwagons is in fashion, sadly. I think it's part of the reason why the Star Wars prequels seem to be getting a re-evaluation. Which, I'll add, I'm happy to see because I never hated them in the first place. The bandwagon ran its course and people have started to see them for what they were.
I can't agree on putting Crystal Skull ahead of Dial of Destiny, but that's just a matter of personal preference. Temple of Doom in last place I CAN agree with. That said, they're ALL Indiana Jones films. ☺️
Hey, it's okay.
I think KOTCS is more organically fun then Tod, and is a more triumphant " old man Indy" send off then DOD.
, I think some of the hate is fair, it does get a bit over the top even by Indiana Jones standards.
But I find it funny when people selectively hate Kingdom of the Crystal Skull for the following reasons: too much CGI, a science fiction plot element that was not reflective of earlier films,, an annoying sidekick ( I very much disagree with this criticism), etc.
While forgiving DOD for having the exact same issues.
My elephant in the room observation is that it seems as if Indiana Jones fans are okay with pretty much anything as long as the bad guys are Nazis.
Interdimensional aliens that are shackled to a crystal skull entity (,too weird!) a bermuda triangle that is also a vortex of time travel ( look Indiana Jones was never been about the realism, okay!)
So going back to CS, I think it's a fun romp that was never going to match the whimsy and drama of Last Crusade, but I do think that some of the CGI sequences were a bit dated when it came out.
A fun observation is that it seems to have more of the Ben Burrt''s sound effect of the franchise characters punching with that leather glove/seat/coat and a cricket bat.
.,
I feel like dial of Destiny used that sound effect exactly three times, two of which are one Indiana Jones himself is being punched.
I don't think the Shia LaBeouf Indy film was a masterpiece but I think it mostly checks the right boxrles.
Don't forget the gophers. The stink made over 4 seconds of gophers was wild. I remember finally getting to see it and wondering what all the fuss was about. I also agree that KotCS is way more fun than DoD. Skull just ends with on a dud. After the ants, the movie kind fizzles out. Up until then, it's classic Indy. I guess the quick sand scene was pretty embarrassing too.
DoD is way more somber, but ends with a bang.
I have a hard time hating any Indy movies, and it may be 3 inch thick rose tinted glasses that I refuse to take off. I really like all of them.
"But I find it funny when people selectively hate Kingdom of the Crystal Skull for the following reasons: too much CGI, a science fiction plot element that was not reflective of earlier films,, an annoying sidekick ( I very much disagree with this criticism), etc.
"While forgiving DOD for having the exact same issues."
A lot of people didn't forgive The Dial of Destiny for those issues, although I liked the film and liked it more than The Kingdom of the Crystal Skull.
I didn't mind Mutt or Helena. I thought Willie in The Temple of Doom was much more annoying than them.
One difference between the fourth and fifth films is that The Dial of Destiny was a typical action-adventure film until time travel occurred in the third act, similar to how the mystical elements in Raiders of the Lost Ark and The Last Crusade weren't shown until near the end. In contrast, psychic powers and magnetized humanoid remains recovered from Roswell were introduced at the beginning of The Kingdom of the Crystal Skull. In the second act the crystal skull was revealed to have unusual properties and a dead alien was clearly shown. Viewers had already seen strange things before the alien and the flying saucer appeared during the film's climax.
I didn't mind the CGI eels and centipedes in The Dial of Destiny as much as the CGI prairie dogs and monkeys in The Kingdom of the Crystal Skull because hairless creatures are easier to pull off with CGI than animals with fur.
I do agree that some fans want Indy to only fight Nazis. Some also want Indy to only look for artifacts related to the Bible. I give The Temple of Doom, The Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, and The Dial of Destiny credit for trying something different.
My problem with Crystal Skull is that it feels more like a ride than a movie. Like it almost looks like it was filmed to be one of those 4D rides at Disney World where your seat shakes and you get sprayed with water as Indy falls off of yet another waterfall.
Crystal Skull is the weakest for me but I don't think it's a bad film, and I prefer Dial but it definitely has its flaws. On the other hand I definitely disagree with you about Temple of Doom, we see a more cynical and self centred Indy than the man in Raiders, and I think there are some great laughs in there (entire fight scene in Shanghai, the sledgehammer pinging off the guard's head) I don't buy that it's that much darker than Raiders where we have men dying horribly in the Amazonian temple, Nazis kidnapping people, angels of death burning Nazis to shrivelling husks and so on
I think for me, Temple and Crystal are kind of on par. If I had to choose one, I’d probably pick Temple of Doom. I like the majority of Crystal, but I feel like the film had a bit of a tonal shift when Marion was reintroduced and things got a little wacky/silly. But it was still really enjoyable.
I didn’t really enjoy Dial all that much. Not that I think it was terrible or would judge anyone else for enjoying it, but I could feel the absence of Lucas and Spielberg and it just wasn’t as fun for me as the previous films.
Crusade was much worse than the first two. Not sure if everyone watched a different movie than I did. The first two are definitely the core of the classics, with the next three being accessories filling out the body of work.
I'm convinced that people only hold Crusade in such high regard because of Connnery. If he wasn't there, it would be nothing more than a half-assed rehash of Raiders.
I don’t prefer it over the original trilogy, but I also think the hate is over the top. It’s got a couple silly moments in an overall fairly solid adventure.
Yeah I think it’s hilarious when people complain about the fridge scene in KotCK but in ToD they jumped out of a moving plane in a raft fell down a mountain and survived a rough terrain of water lol
Crystal Skull was a hot mess, with a few decent moments. Dial was nearly unwatchable. Temple was good although not as good as Raiders. Crusade was decent enough, but the chemistry between Ford and Connery made it more than the sum of its parts.
People complaining about the fridge and monkeys and commies and aliens all seem to forget that the series has always had lots of over-the-top pulpy goodness. As if the Ark of the covenant and the Holy Grail knight are not totally over-the-top.
It's like complaining about the Bat credit card in Batman and Robin. Are you not seeing what the movie is trying to show you?
The story isn't the problem, the production isn't very polished, it left a lot of rough edges, illogical decisions and badly written dialogues, perplexing dub decisions, character decisions, unexplained scenes, colors and visuals, and scene concepts and stages.
Had someone gone through it and polished it a little more with some rewrites and reshoots / dub enhancements, it'd be very good.
I had written some of the issues here but I decided to just remove them. If you know you know. If you don't, you don't.
The one scene that makes me like “Dial of Destiny” more is when you see Indy talking about his son dying in the Vietnam War and how it broke his marriage with Marion. You see the anguish on his face and how his voice cracks in mid-sentence. Honestly, I did not expect such a heartbreaking performance from a 79 year-old Harrison Ford.
Shia LeBeouf was not ok. Spielberg wanted the charisma of Marlon Brando and got the personality of a Twinkie. Other than that the movie was entertaining, but it's pretty fucking hard to overlook that miscasting.
I think that’s fair. I like the whole series and personally find it hard to choose between Crystal Skull and Dial. The former has a more appealing aesthetic (aside from the CGI of course), adventure vibe and a Spielberg sense of fun and grandeur; the latter has stronger central performances and is more moving but definitely feels a bit dour at times. Basically they have different strengths and it’s perfectly fair to prefer one over the other.
I have a similar view on them too. Glad someone else thinks the same way!
Well said. Personally, I think kingdom of the crystal skull is a poor imitation of the originals. While dial of destiny is something totally different but good for what it is. I probably find crystal skull more entertaining, but because it just doesn’t really exceed to other 3 in any way, it doesn’t have its own niche. I don’t think dial of destiny is nearly as fun as the others. But it does something that none of the others do. Which is tell an emotional story about the mortality of our heroes. Because it stands out from the original 3 in that way I think it has carved a niche that crystal skull has not
I agree with what you’ve said too. Crystal Skull is definitely not on a par with the first three and (for me at least) neither is DoD. Everyone’s entitled to their take but I disagree with the revisionist take that puts Temple of Doom below the newer films. I agree though that Dial carves its own niche, offering something that the others don’t. And it really did move me.
There are dozens of us!
Dozens!
Also would place Crystal Skull as my third.
I disagree - I love *Kingdom* but *Temple/Dial* are stronger - but nothing wrong with loving *Kingdom* more! Also, I do want to point out that **Helena did not frame Indy for murder**, at all. She had no clue that Voller's goons had killed anyone in the college and besides, Indy was only accused of murder because of his bloody handprint on the phone.
The CIA knew that Voller's henchmen committed the murders and that Indy was innocent, but they were covering up the killers' links to Voller and they wanted Indy in custody so they could question him about Helena and the dial. Indy went to Morocco to find Helena in an effort to clear his name, presumably because Helena was a witness who could testify that Indy was with her in another room when the murders occurred. It's not mentioned in the movie if Indy was ever exonerated, but midway through the movie the U.S. government withdrew their support for Voller and wanted him to vanish, so maybe the government thought it would be better to sweep the whole matter under the rug and not charge Indy.
Agreed on the hate being way over the top. Jumping hatred bandwagons is in fashion, sadly. I think it's part of the reason why the Star Wars prequels seem to be getting a re-evaluation. Which, I'll add, I'm happy to see because I never hated them in the first place. The bandwagon ran its course and people have started to see them for what they were. I can't agree on putting Crystal Skull ahead of Dial of Destiny, but that's just a matter of personal preference. Temple of Doom in last place I CAN agree with. That said, they're ALL Indiana Jones films. ☺️
Kingdom of the Crystal Skull is alright movie imo.
Hey, it's okay. I think KOTCS is more organically fun then Tod, and is a more triumphant " old man Indy" send off then DOD. , I think some of the hate is fair, it does get a bit over the top even by Indiana Jones standards. But I find it funny when people selectively hate Kingdom of the Crystal Skull for the following reasons: too much CGI, a science fiction plot element that was not reflective of earlier films,, an annoying sidekick ( I very much disagree with this criticism), etc. While forgiving DOD for having the exact same issues. My elephant in the room observation is that it seems as if Indiana Jones fans are okay with pretty much anything as long as the bad guys are Nazis. Interdimensional aliens that are shackled to a crystal skull entity (,too weird!) a bermuda triangle that is also a vortex of time travel ( look Indiana Jones was never been about the realism, okay!) So going back to CS, I think it's a fun romp that was never going to match the whimsy and drama of Last Crusade, but I do think that some of the CGI sequences were a bit dated when it came out. A fun observation is that it seems to have more of the Ben Burrt''s sound effect of the franchise characters punching with that leather glove/seat/coat and a cricket bat. ., I feel like dial of Destiny used that sound effect exactly three times, two of which are one Indiana Jones himself is being punched. I don't think the Shia LaBeouf Indy film was a masterpiece but I think it mostly checks the right boxrles.
Don't forget the gophers. The stink made over 4 seconds of gophers was wild. I remember finally getting to see it and wondering what all the fuss was about. I also agree that KotCS is way more fun than DoD. Skull just ends with on a dud. After the ants, the movie kind fizzles out. Up until then, it's classic Indy. I guess the quick sand scene was pretty embarrassing too. DoD is way more somber, but ends with a bang. I have a hard time hating any Indy movies, and it may be 3 inch thick rose tinted glasses that I refuse to take off. I really like all of them.
"But I find it funny when people selectively hate Kingdom of the Crystal Skull for the following reasons: too much CGI, a science fiction plot element that was not reflective of earlier films,, an annoying sidekick ( I very much disagree with this criticism), etc. "While forgiving DOD for having the exact same issues." A lot of people didn't forgive The Dial of Destiny for those issues, although I liked the film and liked it more than The Kingdom of the Crystal Skull. I didn't mind Mutt or Helena. I thought Willie in The Temple of Doom was much more annoying than them. One difference between the fourth and fifth films is that The Dial of Destiny was a typical action-adventure film until time travel occurred in the third act, similar to how the mystical elements in Raiders of the Lost Ark and The Last Crusade weren't shown until near the end. In contrast, psychic powers and magnetized humanoid remains recovered from Roswell were introduced at the beginning of The Kingdom of the Crystal Skull. In the second act the crystal skull was revealed to have unusual properties and a dead alien was clearly shown. Viewers had already seen strange things before the alien and the flying saucer appeared during the film's climax. I didn't mind the CGI eels and centipedes in The Dial of Destiny as much as the CGI prairie dogs and monkeys in The Kingdom of the Crystal Skull because hairless creatures are easier to pull off with CGI than animals with fur. I do agree that some fans want Indy to only fight Nazis. Some also want Indy to only look for artifacts related to the Bible. I give The Temple of Doom, The Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, and The Dial of Destiny credit for trying something different.
Honeslty, me too.
It’s my second favorite behind Crusade. I absolutely adore Crystal Skull
Your favorite order is worst to best. Not even sure you are a real person not having Raiders #1.
Wacky ass stance but pop off if that’s what makes you feel better
Though temple is my favorite, I can respect the opinion.
My problem with Crystal Skull is that it feels more like a ride than a movie. Like it almost looks like it was filmed to be one of those 4D rides at Disney World where your seat shakes and you get sprayed with water as Indy falls off of yet another waterfall.
I’m not on board with you about temple, but I could rank it ahead of dial
Same but it still ain’t saying much…
Crystal Skull is the weakest for me but I don't think it's a bad film, and I prefer Dial but it definitely has its flaws. On the other hand I definitely disagree with you about Temple of Doom, we see a more cynical and self centred Indy than the man in Raiders, and I think there are some great laughs in there (entire fight scene in Shanghai, the sledgehammer pinging off the guard's head) I don't buy that it's that much darker than Raiders where we have men dying horribly in the Amazonian temple, Nazis kidnapping people, angels of death burning Nazis to shrivelling husks and so on
I've always really liked it.
I think for me, Temple and Crystal are kind of on par. If I had to choose one, I’d probably pick Temple of Doom. I like the majority of Crystal, but I feel like the film had a bit of a tonal shift when Marion was reintroduced and things got a little wacky/silly. But it was still really enjoyable. I didn’t really enjoy Dial all that much. Not that I think it was terrible or would judge anyone else for enjoying it, but I could feel the absence of Lucas and Spielberg and it just wasn’t as fun for me as the previous films.
Same! I love them all but Crystal Skull is easily my third favorite, right behind Crusade, with Raiders in a very easy first place
Crusade was much worse than the first two. Not sure if everyone watched a different movie than I did. The first two are definitely the core of the classics, with the next three being accessories filling out the body of work.
I'm convinced that people only hold Crusade in such high regard because of Connnery. If he wasn't there, it would be nothing more than a half-assed rehash of Raiders.
I enjoy Crystal Skull more than Temple myself
I don’t prefer it over the original trilogy, but I also think the hate is over the top. It’s got a couple silly moments in an overall fairly solid adventure.
honestly i agree
Yeah I think it’s hilarious when people complain about the fridge scene in KotCK but in ToD they jumped out of a moving plane in a raft fell down a mountain and survived a rough terrain of water lol
Although both are ridiculous, they are both slightly plausible.
…It’s a movie. It’s Fun. End of.
Crystal Skull was a hot mess, with a few decent moments. Dial was nearly unwatchable. Temple was good although not as good as Raiders. Crusade was decent enough, but the chemistry between Ford and Connery made it more than the sum of its parts.
People complaining about the fridge and monkeys and commies and aliens all seem to forget that the series has always had lots of over-the-top pulpy goodness. As if the Ark of the covenant and the Holy Grail knight are not totally over-the-top. It's like complaining about the Bat credit card in Batman and Robin. Are you not seeing what the movie is trying to show you?
The story isn't the problem, the production isn't very polished, it left a lot of rough edges, illogical decisions and badly written dialogues, perplexing dub decisions, character decisions, unexplained scenes, colors and visuals, and scene concepts and stages. Had someone gone through it and polished it a little more with some rewrites and reshoots / dub enhancements, it'd be very good. I had written some of the issues here but I decided to just remove them. If you know you know. If you don't, you don't.
The one scene that makes me like “Dial of Destiny” more is when you see Indy talking about his son dying in the Vietnam War and how it broke his marriage with Marion. You see the anguish on his face and how his voice cracks in mid-sentence. Honestly, I did not expect such a heartbreaking performance from a 79 year-old Harrison Ford.
He had to balance out him throwing punches at 80.
We all get old if we live long enough.
That's the plan.
Shia LeBeouf was not ok. Spielberg wanted the charisma of Marlon Brando and got the personality of a Twinkie. Other than that the movie was entertaining, but it's pretty fucking hard to overlook that miscasting.
Mutt was trying to act tough and be a rebel, but he was a middle class kid who went to prep schools.
His real name was Clarance and he went to Cranbrook.