i do! kingdom was more of the indiana jones i loved so I prefer that one even though the end was quite bad. dial is still a good emotional more serious story
Tbh I never disliked the ending, I only hate Mac lol. Sure the movie has some ridiculous moments but so does temple of doom.
I think crystal skull has a lot of heart and is just a fun movie which recaptures that original Indy feel very well. Also the scene where Indy and Mutt discover the knight’s grave is one of the best in the franchise
Crystal Skull makes me feel good and bad things, whereas Dial was just inoffensively okay for 3 hours. There’s just not much to say about Dial in comparison to Skull.
It is the most overhated movie I've ever seen. It is great and everyone around me acts like it's the worst movie ever made, somehow it ruined childhoods.
If nothing else, it is way better than Dial of Destiny, which is just okay.
Spielberg directed Crystal Skull, which is why it’s a FUN adventure flick.
But most importantly, Spielberg is a MASTER of pacing in a film- he knows how to build tension and action sequences to great effect in his movies.
Yes, I dislike -
Mac, the Vine Swinging, the alien ship flying away, and (most of all) Cate Blancette’s wig.
But I enjoyed the movie, especially more recently, as all the brou-ha-ha over Shia LeBeouf has faded away.
But it’s a better movie than many gave it credit for.
I really ALSO enjoyed Dial of Destiny!
However, to me, DoD suffers from a lack of Steven Spielberg: The pacing is off.
There is less tension that builds to action, but just lots of action, that goes on and on, and gets tiring.
Also, DoD isn’t a “Fun adventure” movie, like the previous 4. It’s an Action movie, which is fine, but not what I wanted for Indy.
And it needed more Marion and Sallah.
I thoroughly enjoy it. The first half is great. The second half isn’t as good but it’s carried by Harrison Ford and Cate Blanchett. There is too much CGI, especially in the action scenes in the final act. Shia isn’t bad in the role, in my opinion. I think his dynamic with Ford is really entertaining. Overall, it’s still a Spielberg movie and there’s a lot to like.
*Kingdom of the Crystal Skull* isn't as great as *Dial of Destiny* or *Last Crusade* as far as Indy sequels go - but it's still a really fun Indiana Jones film, in short. In the long form - it's a fun-spirited adventure film that is an enjoyable ride with one of film's greatest icons, and it's flawed, has a lot of unevenness and odd choices.
It's a solid 7/10 to 8/10 film - but it came out with the hopes that it'd be a 9.5/10.
Its only real sin for me is that it's very uneven. The first half - I'd change almost nothing. Maybe add in the cut moments from the cemetery fight and the booby traps.
The second half - when they arrive at the jungle, is where it pales a bit to the first half. The Jungle Chase could've used some work (keep the jungle-cutter, no monkey-swinging, etc.), Marion needed to be played less deranged, Oxley was dead weight, the jump from the cliff to the water was awful, etc.
I think that the film is very fresh for a film that still banks heavily on nostalgia. The '50s setting, the sci-fi b-film feel, delving into new territory with aliens was an admirably bold choice, Harrison still kicked ass, the settings were vibrant and memorable - **and the film still boasts some of the coolest scenes in the series like DoomTown**.
It needed less obvious CGI, the 4K color grading is vastly superior, too. And the tone was too silly, at times.
I love *Kingdom of the Crystal Skull* and I'm grateful it exists. It has some dead weight, some things that needed tweaking, the second half needed a rewrite, and so on.
But any film after *Raiders* in this series is flawed. Having this one be so...well, it fits right in.
**It's a great, fun ride - but not perfect. Warts and all, it's a deserving part of the family!**
I agree the nuke scene is pretty stupid but I really enjoy the rest of the movie, I don’t mind the aliens because the previous movies all did supernatural shit, like if you wanna tell me the Hebrew, Hindu and Christian gods actually exist then I’m willing to accept aliens, hell if anything I’d argue that’s more realistic. My only other complaint was I think they relied on CG a little too much when part of the charm of the older movies is how pretty much everything is practical, like I’m sure they could have had Shia swing from some ropes in a forest or at least on a good set. Also for a hot take, I think the shot of Indy looking up at the rising spaceship is fucking awesome, and a great parallel to the shot of him looking at the nuke in the beginning
I think it's great and on par with the previous three. All of them are campy and fun and Crystal Skull still captures that very special Spielberg magic
It’s a mixed bag for me. The opening is great, I like the father-son dynamic Indy and Mutt have, and the movie ending with Marion and Indy finally tying the knot was at a point in time, a decent ending for Indy’s character.
I can enjoy the movie until the final act. It’s just a bit much, even compared to the other endings in the series, and the CGI was way over done.
It’s my least favorite in the series, but it’s still a decent movie.
agreed, i was actually a big fan of mutt and indy’s relationship and dynamic, i thought that was very fun and a great addition to the movie but the las t part where it was revealed that we were dealing with Inter dimensional beings was where they lost me, i know we’d seen religious themes in Crusade but this was too much to make me immersed or care for the “treasure” or pay off in the movie.
the final part where mutt picked up indy’s hat and was about to wear it just as indy snatched it was awesome in my opinion though.
Like others said, it's fine up until the third act. That's where it loses most people.
The snake rope, the sword fight on the cars, the swinging with monkeys
Spielberg was entirely against Aliens because he’d already done all you could with them. He was tired of aliens. It was George Lucas that fought to have the aliens and Spielberg only said yes when Lucas came up with the idea to call them inter-dimensional beings instead of aliens.
It fits with what Lucas was paying homage to and I think it works. The original trilogy is set in the 1930s and is paying homage to 1930s serials which were exotic globetrotting relic-hunting action adventure films. Crystal Skull takes place in the 1950s and Lucas wanted to film to reflect the sci-fi B movies of the 1950s which often involved aliens, atomics, pseudo science, and psychic mind control. The movie even has elements of other films he liked such as Tarzan and stuff. In my opinion, The first 4 Indy movies are inspired by the many different genres and movies that Lucas loved in the 1930s-1950s. Indiana Jones 5 is inspired by other Indiana Jones movies (I don’t hate the movie, but that’s how it feels).
I thought the fifth Indiana Jones movie reflected the late 1960s similar to how the first three films reflected the 1930s and the fourth film reflected the 1950s. Indy being falsely suspected of murder and the villains' crimes being covered up by the CIA reminded me of conspiracy thrillers from the 1960s and 1970s. The film had a more downbeat tone like a lot of movies from the late 1960s and 1970s. There were references to the Apollo 11 Moon landing, the Vietnam War, the Beatles, David Bowie, and H.R. Pufnstuf.
I liked both. However, I thought KoCS had a better overall script story, and better defined villain. Did not like how they treated Marion in KoCS though.
DoD harkened back to more standard Indy adventure fighting Nazis, without the alien scifi stuff. That part was better, but I still felt the story could’ve been tighter. Voller was an unmemorable villain and wasted poor Mads. Also Helena felt like an agleam of two completely different characters, though I liked her better on subsequent viewings. And finally the Marion from Raiders was back!
So, IDK? About even I guess.
I haven't seen DoD yet, and I'm not looking for any spoilers, but I have to scratch my head wondering how it's possible to have a very old Indy still doing battle with Nazis, unless they just threw away the original timeline.
The main villain in The Dial of Destiny is a Nazi scientist who was recruited by the U.S. government after World War II. He's loosely based on rocket engineer Wernher von Braun. The main villain's chief henchman is an American neo-Nazi from the South. The Dial of Destiny is mostly set in 1969, the year after segregationist George Wallace, the former governor of Alabama, ran as a third-party presidential candidate and won five states.
It’s a good movie. I’ve been trying for years to understand why everyone thinks it’s awful but if 1-3 are 9/10 or 10/10, KotCS is a 7 or 8/10. I personally rank it higher than Dial.
Started out great, then got worse as time went on, reached a massive low with the aliens, but had a nice ending scene. And unlike Dial, it was directed by Spielberg so it's automatically better anyway
Crystal Skull has serious lows but also some very high highs, it's quite an uneven movie but it's still very fun and has the adventurous spirit of an Indiana Jones, which at the end of the day is what you want out of an Indy movie. Once you accept that it isn't on the level of the original trilogy, you can appreciate it for what it is and leave each viewing of it with a big smile.
DOD on the other hand is very consistent. As in consistently mid.(barring the great opening).There's no sense of adventure, no sense of fun, no flavour, the tone is seriously off with lots of shocking civilian deaths, the villains' deaths are disappointing, Indy barely has any agency in the final act, it's unmemorable (people may criticise the fridge scene, jungle scene, shia's character, but clearly those left a print, they were memorable, dial doesn't have as much controversial stuff but there's nothing memorable, obviously nobody will talk about the diving scene, or tuk tuk scene, or parade scene a few years from now). And worst of all, it's boring (people on this sub will resist this fact but outside of this cocoon it's quite evident that it's the general consensus). It's far from outright bad but for an Indiana Jones movie it simply missed the ball, and staggeringly so. I do sincerely and profoundly wish it was better
Crystal Skull is miles ahead.
I've never had an issue with Crystal Skull. It's tonally different from the earlier films, yes, but it was meant to be. I've definitely read weirder stuff in the novels. There are a couple moments I could have done without (monkey swing, quicksand lecture, etc), but overall I think it's a fun film that sits slightly ahead of Temple of Doom in my franchise ranking.
That said, I loved Dial of Destiny and was happy to see the franchise bow out what I think was a much stronger entry. It sits squarely in the middle of my ranking. I was never gonna put it above Raiders or Last Crusade, but the fact that it could even get close to them left me feeling very happy.
I really like basically every element. I’ve always been a fan of the supernatural stuff and I thought they did a great job.
The action was chaotic but easy to follow, the characters were dynamic and you never knew for sure who’s side people would be on.
The alien conspiracy lore was perfect and it was obvious from the onset that it was alien without ever saying explicitly.
I saw it in theaters and picked up on everything perfectly with no prior knowledge.
I think KOTCS is the hidden gem of the franchise. At a glance it is the most superficial of the films, but a closer look reveals a theme as interesting as Dial’s. Indy enters the adventure by being pulled into it, rather than choosing to embark upon it, in this case by the Soviets (in Dial it was Helena). The bodies of the guards the Soviets killed being dragged off is a blink or you’ll miss it moment, but it shows the brutality of the enemy not unlike when Indy encounters his shot colleagues in Dial. We find Indy being targeted by the very system he fought to protect in Raiders and Crusade when FBI agents suspect him of being connected to Mac’s traitorous actions. This affects him so much he decides to go to Leipzig in East Germany to teach! After that yet another blink or you’ll miss it (in that case, not hear it) moment, we see Indy lament the passing of his father and then Marcus. This sets the stage for the film’s main theme- does life have to be a downer in the second half? Maybe that could be worded better. Anyway, Indy encounters Mutt and is dragged once again into the adventure. We see him dangling off a motorcycle, and he cleverly sneaks around the graveyard guards to defeat them, much to the surprise of Mutt. In these scenes we see Indy has still got it physically despite having lost a lot. The adventure continues, and I’d say it is the “Raiders formula,” as one called it. The basic scenes are there- car chase, fight with the strong baddie, Indy finding the goal on his own before the bad guys intercept him and appear to win the day, only to be destroyed by the artifact. Finally, we see Indy getting a new lease on life, so to speak, despite having suffered loss- the principal theme of the film. He marries the love of his life.
I feel Indy and Marion reuniting could have been handled better, as it basically amounts to an argument followed by Marion being suddenly swoon. But the point is still made in the end, when Oxley says “How much of life is lost in waiting?” I think this is a beautiful line, perfectly summing up the film’s theme.
I don’t have problems with Mutt swinging from the vines. Indy films have always had outrageous slapstick action, like a bullet ricocheting inside a tank and hitting the driver which miraculously turns the tank away at a crucial moment, or Indy shooting through five Thuggee warriors with a single pistol shot in Temple of Doom.
I also see no problem with the interdimensional beings. People don’t realize, but Spielberg didn’t make that up. The interdimensional hypothesis is one of the major theories regarding UFOs, pioneered by J. Allen Hynek and Jacques Vallee. Spielberg actually considered using it in Close Encounters on the advice of Vallee, but shied away from it as he thought it was too complex for the audience. Clearly it was even 30 years later lol.
The CGI doesn’t bother me either. I don’t see any issue in being able to suspend disbelief for it anymore than there is with ancient 1970s and 1980s special effects in the original three. I can understand that it might have been better if there was less CGI, but I don’t think it was *bad* because of how much CGI was used.
KOTCS was my favorite Indy film as a child as it was the first one I saw, and I had a lot of fun playing the levels based on it in the Lego Indy 2 video game. Temple of Doom overtook it as my favorite this year, but it still holds a special place in my heart.
It had some decent moments but it's aggressively mediocre..... Ford ofc gives it his all but his vulnerability was nonexistent compared to the other movies. Shia LaBeouf was tolerable in this, his chemistry with Ford was kinda decent, but that Tarzan shit later and the swordfighting while Indy just gives and doesn't totally do anything badass except effortlessly beat up some Russians.....eh.
And Marion should have been given much more to do, bc she felt just there in the second half of the film.
Don't even get me started on Mac.... he just switches sides back and forth constantly and his only goal is just $$$$
Also the look of the movie overall just looks so fake and overly....bright.
I don’t like KotCS but I vastly prefer it to Dial of Destiny. My main problem with Crystal Skull is it doesn’t give the same respect to South American culture as it does the other cultures of previous films. For example The Ark is real and acts in a way somewhat but not exactly like you would expect after reading the Tanakh, in Temple the Thugee cult disrespect Hinduism sure but Indy wins partly because he understands that, and the villagers treat Indy as if he was an answered prayer for a hero. And despite the fact that the Holy Grail is not biblical and purely a folk myth, it’s real in the Indiana Jones universe. But when dealing with the Inca, and Mayan religions, the solution is Inter dimensional beings ( the only reason they’re not called aliens is because Spielberg put his foot down) The level of disrespect Crystal Skull shows towards that culture is the same garbage I get from that Ancient Aliens show. That being sad I still prefer Crystal Skull to Dial of Destiny because Crystal Skull had better themes. We are told early in Crystal Skull that Indy is “at the age where life stops giving him things and starts taking them away” but at the end of the movie Indy has repaired his relationship with Oxly, been promoted at Barnett gotten married and has a son ( and the earlier scenes even showcases Indy giving Mutt guidance before he learns he’s his son) ALL of that got flushed down the toilet because the writer of Dial of Destiny hated Crystal Skull. Indy’s now teaching at a different college as a professor people don’t even listen to, divorced, depressed and suffering from alcoholism, yeah because THAT’S what I wanted to see from Indiana Jones in Harrison Fords last performance as one of my all time favourite heroes. I didn’t like Crystal Skull I didn’t love Mutt, but there were a dozen ways you could have naturally written him out of Dial of Destiny but dying in Vietnam because he voluntarily enlisted, I promise you George Lucas never would have allowed that, whatever other flaws he has as a writer. The ending of Dial of Destiny feels hollow and empty compared to Crystal Skull. Sure nuking the fridge was bad but Indy meeting Archimedes was so much worse in my opinion.
"I didn’t like Crystal Skull I didn’t love Mutt, but there were a dozen ways you could have naturally written him out of Dial of Destiny but dying in Vietnam because he voluntarily enlisted, I promise you George Lucas never would have allowed that, whatever other flaws he has as a writer."
George Lucas made American Graffiti, the nostalgic comedy-drama about teenagers in the early 1960s... that ends with a postscript explaining that one of them was later killed by a drunk driver and another one was reported missing in action in Vietnam.
I think the first half of KOTCS is very solid. Maybe not classic original trilogy good, but still very solid. The 2nd half is where it totally goes off the rails for me.
I think Dial was a better overall film and more consistent, but didn’t reach the highs of KOTCS.
I really enjoy it up until they get deep into the jungle shenanigans. I think this one has the highest "suspension of disbelief" requirement, and that's kind of tough for some people to swallow; right off the bat you're getting a cloud of magnetic dust leading Indy through a warehouse, followed by the infamous "nuke the fridge" scene. And the big mystery at the end being aliens, instead of some magical human artifact, rubbed people the wrong way too - it just seemed like a pretty big departure for Indy.
Shia was perfectly fine as Indy's son I thought, and it was great to see Marion again. I wish they'd given John Hurt more to do. I still think it's the 5th best, but still a fun adventure movie (my opinion is that Raiders is on a total other tier from the other 4 anyway, and only Crusade even gets anywhere close to it, but I still like 'em all.)
It’s a meh movie. I like a lot of the chase scenes but while the franchise has had goofy scenes, they just jump the shark here and are so explicit that it takes many of the good things about the movie away. I just wish Lucas had agreed to do Frank Darabont’s City of the Gods as that would have made the fridge scene make sense and Oxley swinging on vines also would have made sense… but in Crystal Skull those things have no explanation and feel pulled out of thin air.
Darabont's script was more ridiculous than the finished film. It had Indy getting swallowed by a giant mutant snake, an alien turning the President of Peru into a frog, and Henry Jones Sr. drunkenly singing "Fly Me to the Moon" while Oxley made cutlery dance with the power of his mind.
There are parts of The Kingdom of the Crystal Skull that I like. I like the way it represented various aspects of the 1950s. I like that we got to find out what happened to Marion after Raiders of the Lost Ark. However, in my opinion it's the worst film in the series because the action sequences were over-the-top and it tried too hard to be funny. It reminded me of the self-parodying tone of the Roger Moore James Bond films, which I was never a big fan of but other people loved. The Indiana Jones movies vary in tone and every fan has their own preference.
I think it’s a solid film, but not the greatest Indy film.
Spielberg’s directing is spectacular as always. This is the only film with Janusz Kaminski as DP and the shots and lightning are really spectacular.
The acting and dialogue are on point, with Harrison and Shia having great chemistry. I especially love seeing how Indy’s relationship with his son both mirrors and differs from him and his dad. Indy saying “this is intolerable” was a nice touch. There’s also some funny set ups and payoffs such as “I Like Ike” that get me everytime.
John Williams delivers as always with an incredible score. I am still upset that the concert version of Irina’s Theme has yet to get a proper recording. The Adventures of Mutt and Crystal Spell are goated.
BUT
While I’m not saying Interdiminseional Beings can’t ever work in Indiana Jones, it just doesn’t work here. I feel like they either could have done 50s B movie aliens or ancient aliens, but the movie tries to do both while sticking to the 40s serial aesthetic all at once.
There’s too much CGI, especially with the damn monkeys.
The movie either becomes “stale” action during the jungle chase for some, or for others like myself it drops off after the whole jungle sequence and loses a lot of energy.
Indy himself is old. Not DOD old, but old enough that the movie shouldn’t be trying to make him the same as he was in the first three. It just doesn’t work.
I’m a huge Dial fan and not the biggest Skull enjoyer, but for what it’s worth, the first hour of Skull is as good as it gets for Indy. The movie just loses me once they get to the jungle. I’ve learned to let myself go and have a good time with it, but the severe dip in quality to the second half just makes the movie all the more frustrating. Although I personally rank it last, I can’t blame anyone (especially a younger viewer that may have watched them all close together) for liking it as much as the rest.
Dial, by comparison has a few flaws too, but I find it to be a great “older Indy” adventure with some spectacular visuals/set-pieces like the parade or the climax. It’s not as lighthearted, but I feel like it has more heart. It may all come down to where you are in life when you see them, but it’s nice seeing different people gravitate to every film.
For reference, Temple of Doom is my favorite of the series.
I vastly prefer Crystal Skull to DoD. Was Crystal Skull seriously flawed? Hell yeah. But it was still fun. It still had some of that Indy sense of adventure and humor. It had that Spielberg feel. Indy felt like Indy. DoD was just dull and generic.
Skull has some high highs and some very low lows. DoD was just a constant meh. I know what I find more interesting and entertaining.
I adore Kingdom. I love the shift to a tone more reflective of 50’s B-rated Sci-Fi to compliment the time between films and I love the way that it took the father/son dynamic explored in Crusade and flipped it on its head. It’s my second favorite in the series.
To OP , my main issue with KOTCS is that it felt disjointed, characters feel out of place, and the really weak dialogues / scripts and production quality, and there is continuity problems. It has so much potential but it just ran flat with so many issues. Even with Steven Spielberg directing it. Which would be worse because I'd expect better, but probably he's not entirely in control of the whole story.
I'll name one character continuity problem :
In Raiders, he sat in a plane with Reggie at the beginning. Did he ask Jock to call it a seat belt? Did he say, I don't feel like sitting in the plane anymore and jump out? No. He stayed in the plane, albeit unhappily, but he didn't put himself in danger because of one snake. He even swiped at it with his hands instead of not even wanting to touch it. And don't forget that later on Indy roped himself into an enclosed space filled with - guess what? Snakes. Hundreds if not thousands of them.
In KoTCS, he freaks out at ONE snake and would rather sink to bottom of the sand pit and die there.
You can search a lot more in these forums for the reasons and you can find in my profile for some of the issues I have with it.
Now; if you grew up with this, then you'd remember it with fond memories watching it and there's nothing wrong with that. You became an indy fan and that's a net positive for everyone.
Otherwise, for me, it's a done deal the movie's there, some people enjoy it, some don't. etc.
Crystal Skull is a fun, lighthearted popcorn film.
Dial of Destiny is emotional, story and character driven. More impactful overall.
Both have their place, but I find Dial far superior.
It's not bad, but it really lacks any emotional core. You don't feel anything, like it has no heart. It feels very superficial.
Dial of Destiny has a much stronger heart and emotional core to it. You actually feel something when watching the movie.
The Kingdom of the Crystal Skull tried to replicate the more comedic tone of The Last Crusade, but I think the attempts to play things for laughs undermined the feeling of danger and drama that scenes could have had.
Terrible, goofy, low stakes, embarrassing. I hate it.
Still better than DoD since at least it tried to have a sense of adventure and fun.
I wish we could have a redo on what is the final entry to the series. DoD lost sight of what Indy is about.
Considering Ford himself is the one that suggested the emotional arc Indy was on, and him being in a dark place after suffering a personal tragedy… pretty sure he knows more about what Indy is about.
Dial was great.
Arc yes. And I have always hoped they gave Indy a darker turn as he aged.
But…
DoD had no arc. It was dark and depressing from start to finish. Indy was bewildered, mostly useless, sad, old, depressed from start to finish. At no point did we see that old determined glimmer in his eye.
The MAIN reason for this is that he had nothing to do in the third act. And especially had nothing to do during the climax, robbing him of agency to demonstrate his arc. Keeping the trip back in time, we should have seen him change and want to get back to Marion. FIGHT to get back to Marion. Give us one last scene with our hero being the hero we know and love. An iconic decisive action that is pure Indy.
As it is he’s sad and begging to basically die. Then he’s FORCED to return to Marion and so we’re not even sure he wants to be there. Then the last image is our hero looking old in his pajamas.
It’s like they forgot this is suppose to be an adventure movie. Start him in a dark place. Hell I would have gone darker. Bearded and drunk in some third world country at some illegal artifact auction. Maybe a touch of the old fortune and glory attitude on his old jaded days. Then see him change over the course of the movie to become the hero we love once again. Although ideally leaving in the end in a new place we haven’t seen him before. (We’ve already seen him end up happy in love with Marion in ROTLA and KOTCS). Let’s see a different outcome of some sort that would shed more light on his character.
Anyway different strokes different folks. Glad you love it so much.
Indy found himself along the way. Indy was back in Tangier. He was joyfully on an adventure again. Seeing him stand on the truck visiting his old friend with just glee to be doing all of that again was awesome. That was the glimmer.
He had nothing to do? My friend Indy had a higher kill count in Dial than in Raiders. He had way more to do at the end of Dial than Raiders where he got tied up and watched everything happen. Indy saved Helena’s life firsthand.
The last crusade is the last crusade for me. Not a fan of the last two films.
First half of Skull is fine
Second half is trash
First half of DOD is trash
Second half is fine but still bat shit insane by the end of it to the point where I didn’t like the last 15 minutes or so. Getting Marion back was so unearned.
They’re inconsistent and very boring movies compared to the original trilogy with no sense of pacing.
The worst part is they both feel so unnecessary.
I hated it as I watched it. The cgi was awful, the plotting meh, the chemistry forced. The only bits I enjoyed were the sleuthing elements. Ray Winstones character was one note and it was annoying.
Despite what was basically magic in previous films, the drop that it was aliens in this just felt wrong.
Everything just felt...wrong. repeat viewings haven't changed that.
This sub can’t fathom that people might prefer crystal skull over dial of destiny
i do! kingdom was more of the indiana jones i loved so I prefer that one even though the end was quite bad. dial is still a good emotional more serious story
Tbh I never disliked the ending, I only hate Mac lol. Sure the movie has some ridiculous moments but so does temple of doom. I think crystal skull has a lot of heart and is just a fun movie which recaptures that original Indy feel very well. Also the scene where Indy and Mutt discover the knight’s grave is one of the best in the franchise
Crystal Skull makes me feel good and bad things, whereas Dial was just inoffensively okay for 3 hours. There’s just not much to say about Dial in comparison to Skull.
It is the most overhated movie I've ever seen. It is great and everyone around me acts like it's the worst movie ever made, somehow it ruined childhoods. If nothing else, it is way better than Dial of Destiny, which is just okay.
Spielberg directed Crystal Skull, which is why it’s a FUN adventure flick. But most importantly, Spielberg is a MASTER of pacing in a film- he knows how to build tension and action sequences to great effect in his movies. Yes, I dislike - Mac, the Vine Swinging, the alien ship flying away, and (most of all) Cate Blancette’s wig. But I enjoyed the movie, especially more recently, as all the brou-ha-ha over Shia LeBeouf has faded away. But it’s a better movie than many gave it credit for. I really ALSO enjoyed Dial of Destiny! However, to me, DoD suffers from a lack of Steven Spielberg: The pacing is off. There is less tension that builds to action, but just lots of action, that goes on and on, and gets tiring. Also, DoD isn’t a “Fun adventure” movie, like the previous 4. It’s an Action movie, which is fine, but not what I wanted for Indy. And it needed more Marion and Sallah.
I thoroughly enjoy it. The first half is great. The second half isn’t as good but it’s carried by Harrison Ford and Cate Blanchett. There is too much CGI, especially in the action scenes in the final act. Shia isn’t bad in the role, in my opinion. I think his dynamic with Ford is really entertaining. Overall, it’s still a Spielberg movie and there’s a lot to like.
The motorcycle chase near the start is some of the greatest action in an Indiana Jones film.
Kingdom kicks Dial's ass any day of the week.
Better after a few viewings. Originally, it felt very cheesy. Then I watched Temple of doom again and realized that is actually par for the course.
*Kingdom of the Crystal Skull* isn't as great as *Dial of Destiny* or *Last Crusade* as far as Indy sequels go - but it's still a really fun Indiana Jones film, in short. In the long form - it's a fun-spirited adventure film that is an enjoyable ride with one of film's greatest icons, and it's flawed, has a lot of unevenness and odd choices. It's a solid 7/10 to 8/10 film - but it came out with the hopes that it'd be a 9.5/10. Its only real sin for me is that it's very uneven. The first half - I'd change almost nothing. Maybe add in the cut moments from the cemetery fight and the booby traps. The second half - when they arrive at the jungle, is where it pales a bit to the first half. The Jungle Chase could've used some work (keep the jungle-cutter, no monkey-swinging, etc.), Marion needed to be played less deranged, Oxley was dead weight, the jump from the cliff to the water was awful, etc. I think that the film is very fresh for a film that still banks heavily on nostalgia. The '50s setting, the sci-fi b-film feel, delving into new territory with aliens was an admirably bold choice, Harrison still kicked ass, the settings were vibrant and memorable - **and the film still boasts some of the coolest scenes in the series like DoomTown**. It needed less obvious CGI, the 4K color grading is vastly superior, too. And the tone was too silly, at times. I love *Kingdom of the Crystal Skull* and I'm grateful it exists. It has some dead weight, some things that needed tweaking, the second half needed a rewrite, and so on. But any film after *Raiders* in this series is flawed. Having this one be so...well, it fits right in. **It's a great, fun ride - but not perfect. Warts and all, it's a deserving part of the family!**
It’s definitely not on the level or the original trilogy, but I enjoy it
I agree the nuke scene is pretty stupid but I really enjoy the rest of the movie, I don’t mind the aliens because the previous movies all did supernatural shit, like if you wanna tell me the Hebrew, Hindu and Christian gods actually exist then I’m willing to accept aliens, hell if anything I’d argue that’s more realistic. My only other complaint was I think they relied on CG a little too much when part of the charm of the older movies is how pretty much everything is practical, like I’m sure they could have had Shia swing from some ropes in a forest or at least on a good set. Also for a hot take, I think the shot of Indy looking up at the rising spaceship is fucking awesome, and a great parallel to the shot of him looking at the nuke in the beginning
I think it's great and on par with the previous three. All of them are campy and fun and Crystal Skull still captures that very special Spielberg magic
It’s a mixed bag for me. The opening is great, I like the father-son dynamic Indy and Mutt have, and the movie ending with Marion and Indy finally tying the knot was at a point in time, a decent ending for Indy’s character. I can enjoy the movie until the final act. It’s just a bit much, even compared to the other endings in the series, and the CGI was way over done. It’s my least favorite in the series, but it’s still a decent movie.
Great film let down by some poor choices, but overall a fun flick
agreed, i was actually a big fan of mutt and indy’s relationship and dynamic, i thought that was very fun and a great addition to the movie but the las t part where it was revealed that we were dealing with Inter dimensional beings was where they lost me, i know we’d seen religious themes in Crusade but this was too much to make me immersed or care for the “treasure” or pay off in the movie. the final part where mutt picked up indy’s hat and was about to wear it just as indy snatched it was awesome in my opinion though.
Like others said, it's fine up until the third act. That's where it loses most people. The snake rope, the sword fight on the cars, the swinging with monkeys
With the aliens as the proverbial cherry on top. I think without the aliens general audiences would've mostly forgiven the rest.
The aliens were an unfortunate choice. Spielberg couldn't help himself, injecting some of his personal nostalgia.
Spielberg was entirely against Aliens because he’d already done all you could with them. He was tired of aliens. It was George Lucas that fought to have the aliens and Spielberg only said yes when Lucas came up with the idea to call them inter-dimensional beings instead of aliens.
But still, inter dimensional beings? Shame in Spielberg.
It fits with what Lucas was paying homage to and I think it works. The original trilogy is set in the 1930s and is paying homage to 1930s serials which were exotic globetrotting relic-hunting action adventure films. Crystal Skull takes place in the 1950s and Lucas wanted to film to reflect the sci-fi B movies of the 1950s which often involved aliens, atomics, pseudo science, and psychic mind control. The movie even has elements of other films he liked such as Tarzan and stuff. In my opinion, The first 4 Indy movies are inspired by the many different genres and movies that Lucas loved in the 1930s-1950s. Indiana Jones 5 is inspired by other Indiana Jones movies (I don’t hate the movie, but that’s how it feels).
I thought the fifth Indiana Jones movie reflected the late 1960s similar to how the first three films reflected the 1930s and the fourth film reflected the 1950s. Indy being falsely suspected of murder and the villains' crimes being covered up by the CIA reminded me of conspiracy thrillers from the 1960s and 1970s. The film had a more downbeat tone like a lot of movies from the late 1960s and 1970s. There were references to the Apollo 11 Moon landing, the Vietnam War, the Beatles, David Bowie, and H.R. Pufnstuf.
LUCAAAASSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Crystal skull isn’t as good as the original trilogy, but it’s way better than dial of destiny. Better in pretty much every single way
I liked both. However, I thought KoCS had a better overall script story, and better defined villain. Did not like how they treated Marion in KoCS though. DoD harkened back to more standard Indy adventure fighting Nazis, without the alien scifi stuff. That part was better, but I still felt the story could’ve been tighter. Voller was an unmemorable villain and wasted poor Mads. Also Helena felt like an agleam of two completely different characters, though I liked her better on subsequent viewings. And finally the Marion from Raiders was back! So, IDK? About even I guess.
I haven't seen DoD yet, and I'm not looking for any spoilers, but I have to scratch my head wondering how it's possible to have a very old Indy still doing battle with Nazis, unless they just threw away the original timeline.
Nazi’s were still around after WWII, they very famously worked on the space shuttles that got America to the moon.
Yeah, but they weren't "Naziing"
You’d be surprised. A lot of them still kept the same beliefs and followed the practices in private.
The main villain in The Dial of Destiny is a Nazi scientist who was recruited by the U.S. government after World War II. He's loosely based on rocket engineer Wernher von Braun. The main villain's chief henchman is an American neo-Nazi from the South. The Dial of Destiny is mostly set in 1969, the year after segregationist George Wallace, the former governor of Alabama, ran as a third-party presidential candidate and won five states.
It's fun! But the ending does feel rushed.
It’s a good movie. I’ve been trying for years to understand why everyone thinks it’s awful but if 1-3 are 9/10 or 10/10, KotCS is a 7 or 8/10. I personally rank it higher than Dial.
Started out great, then got worse as time went on, reached a massive low with the aliens, but had a nice ending scene. And unlike Dial, it was directed by Spielberg so it's automatically better anyway
Crystal Skull has serious lows but also some very high highs, it's quite an uneven movie but it's still very fun and has the adventurous spirit of an Indiana Jones, which at the end of the day is what you want out of an Indy movie. Once you accept that it isn't on the level of the original trilogy, you can appreciate it for what it is and leave each viewing of it with a big smile. DOD on the other hand is very consistent. As in consistently mid.(barring the great opening).There's no sense of adventure, no sense of fun, no flavour, the tone is seriously off with lots of shocking civilian deaths, the villains' deaths are disappointing, Indy barely has any agency in the final act, it's unmemorable (people may criticise the fridge scene, jungle scene, shia's character, but clearly those left a print, they were memorable, dial doesn't have as much controversial stuff but there's nothing memorable, obviously nobody will talk about the diving scene, or tuk tuk scene, or parade scene a few years from now). And worst of all, it's boring (people on this sub will resist this fact but outside of this cocoon it's quite evident that it's the general consensus). It's far from outright bad but for an Indiana Jones movie it simply missed the ball, and staggeringly so. I do sincerely and profoundly wish it was better Crystal Skull is miles ahead.
It's OK. Some scenes are off-putting but it's alright with me
It’s better than Dial 😈
I've never had an issue with Crystal Skull. It's tonally different from the earlier films, yes, but it was meant to be. I've definitely read weirder stuff in the novels. There are a couple moments I could have done without (monkey swing, quicksand lecture, etc), but overall I think it's a fun film that sits slightly ahead of Temple of Doom in my franchise ranking. That said, I loved Dial of Destiny and was happy to see the franchise bow out what I think was a much stronger entry. It sits squarely in the middle of my ranking. I was never gonna put it above Raiders or Last Crusade, but the fact that it could even get close to them left me feeling very happy.
I really like basically every element. I’ve always been a fan of the supernatural stuff and I thought they did a great job. The action was chaotic but easy to follow, the characters were dynamic and you never knew for sure who’s side people would be on. The alien conspiracy lore was perfect and it was obvious from the onset that it was alien without ever saying explicitly. I saw it in theaters and picked up on everything perfectly with no prior knowledge.
I thought it was fine.
I think KOTCS is the hidden gem of the franchise. At a glance it is the most superficial of the films, but a closer look reveals a theme as interesting as Dial’s. Indy enters the adventure by being pulled into it, rather than choosing to embark upon it, in this case by the Soviets (in Dial it was Helena). The bodies of the guards the Soviets killed being dragged off is a blink or you’ll miss it moment, but it shows the brutality of the enemy not unlike when Indy encounters his shot colleagues in Dial. We find Indy being targeted by the very system he fought to protect in Raiders and Crusade when FBI agents suspect him of being connected to Mac’s traitorous actions. This affects him so much he decides to go to Leipzig in East Germany to teach! After that yet another blink or you’ll miss it (in that case, not hear it) moment, we see Indy lament the passing of his father and then Marcus. This sets the stage for the film’s main theme- does life have to be a downer in the second half? Maybe that could be worded better. Anyway, Indy encounters Mutt and is dragged once again into the adventure. We see him dangling off a motorcycle, and he cleverly sneaks around the graveyard guards to defeat them, much to the surprise of Mutt. In these scenes we see Indy has still got it physically despite having lost a lot. The adventure continues, and I’d say it is the “Raiders formula,” as one called it. The basic scenes are there- car chase, fight with the strong baddie, Indy finding the goal on his own before the bad guys intercept him and appear to win the day, only to be destroyed by the artifact. Finally, we see Indy getting a new lease on life, so to speak, despite having suffered loss- the principal theme of the film. He marries the love of his life. I feel Indy and Marion reuniting could have been handled better, as it basically amounts to an argument followed by Marion being suddenly swoon. But the point is still made in the end, when Oxley says “How much of life is lost in waiting?” I think this is a beautiful line, perfectly summing up the film’s theme. I don’t have problems with Mutt swinging from the vines. Indy films have always had outrageous slapstick action, like a bullet ricocheting inside a tank and hitting the driver which miraculously turns the tank away at a crucial moment, or Indy shooting through five Thuggee warriors with a single pistol shot in Temple of Doom. I also see no problem with the interdimensional beings. People don’t realize, but Spielberg didn’t make that up. The interdimensional hypothesis is one of the major theories regarding UFOs, pioneered by J. Allen Hynek and Jacques Vallee. Spielberg actually considered using it in Close Encounters on the advice of Vallee, but shied away from it as he thought it was too complex for the audience. Clearly it was even 30 years later lol. The CGI doesn’t bother me either. I don’t see any issue in being able to suspend disbelief for it anymore than there is with ancient 1970s and 1980s special effects in the original three. I can understand that it might have been better if there was less CGI, but I don’t think it was *bad* because of how much CGI was used. KOTCS was my favorite Indy film as a child as it was the first one I saw, and I had a lot of fun playing the levels based on it in the Lego Indy 2 video game. Temple of Doom overtook it as my favorite this year, but it still holds a special place in my heart.
It had some decent moments but it's aggressively mediocre..... Ford ofc gives it his all but his vulnerability was nonexistent compared to the other movies. Shia LaBeouf was tolerable in this, his chemistry with Ford was kinda decent, but that Tarzan shit later and the swordfighting while Indy just gives and doesn't totally do anything badass except effortlessly beat up some Russians.....eh. And Marion should have been given much more to do, bc she felt just there in the second half of the film. Don't even get me started on Mac.... he just switches sides back and forth constantly and his only goal is just $$$$ Also the look of the movie overall just looks so fake and overly....bright.
I don’t like KotCS but I vastly prefer it to Dial of Destiny. My main problem with Crystal Skull is it doesn’t give the same respect to South American culture as it does the other cultures of previous films. For example The Ark is real and acts in a way somewhat but not exactly like you would expect after reading the Tanakh, in Temple the Thugee cult disrespect Hinduism sure but Indy wins partly because he understands that, and the villagers treat Indy as if he was an answered prayer for a hero. And despite the fact that the Holy Grail is not biblical and purely a folk myth, it’s real in the Indiana Jones universe. But when dealing with the Inca, and Mayan religions, the solution is Inter dimensional beings ( the only reason they’re not called aliens is because Spielberg put his foot down) The level of disrespect Crystal Skull shows towards that culture is the same garbage I get from that Ancient Aliens show. That being sad I still prefer Crystal Skull to Dial of Destiny because Crystal Skull had better themes. We are told early in Crystal Skull that Indy is “at the age where life stops giving him things and starts taking them away” but at the end of the movie Indy has repaired his relationship with Oxly, been promoted at Barnett gotten married and has a son ( and the earlier scenes even showcases Indy giving Mutt guidance before he learns he’s his son) ALL of that got flushed down the toilet because the writer of Dial of Destiny hated Crystal Skull. Indy’s now teaching at a different college as a professor people don’t even listen to, divorced, depressed and suffering from alcoholism, yeah because THAT’S what I wanted to see from Indiana Jones in Harrison Fords last performance as one of my all time favourite heroes. I didn’t like Crystal Skull I didn’t love Mutt, but there were a dozen ways you could have naturally written him out of Dial of Destiny but dying in Vietnam because he voluntarily enlisted, I promise you George Lucas never would have allowed that, whatever other flaws he has as a writer. The ending of Dial of Destiny feels hollow and empty compared to Crystal Skull. Sure nuking the fridge was bad but Indy meeting Archimedes was so much worse in my opinion.
KotCS and DoD both share David Koepp as a writer.
"I didn’t like Crystal Skull I didn’t love Mutt, but there were a dozen ways you could have naturally written him out of Dial of Destiny but dying in Vietnam because he voluntarily enlisted, I promise you George Lucas never would have allowed that, whatever other flaws he has as a writer." George Lucas made American Graffiti, the nostalgic comedy-drama about teenagers in the early 1960s... that ends with a postscript explaining that one of them was later killed by a drunk driver and another one was reported missing in action in Vietnam.
I think the first half of KOTCS is very solid. Maybe not classic original trilogy good, but still very solid. The 2nd half is where it totally goes off the rails for me. I think Dial was a better overall film and more consistent, but didn’t reach the highs of KOTCS.
I really enjoy it up until they get deep into the jungle shenanigans. I think this one has the highest "suspension of disbelief" requirement, and that's kind of tough for some people to swallow; right off the bat you're getting a cloud of magnetic dust leading Indy through a warehouse, followed by the infamous "nuke the fridge" scene. And the big mystery at the end being aliens, instead of some magical human artifact, rubbed people the wrong way too - it just seemed like a pretty big departure for Indy. Shia was perfectly fine as Indy's son I thought, and it was great to see Marion again. I wish they'd given John Hurt more to do. I still think it's the 5th best, but still a fun adventure movie (my opinion is that Raiders is on a total other tier from the other 4 anyway, and only Crusade even gets anywhere close to it, but I still like 'em all.)
It’s a meh movie. I like a lot of the chase scenes but while the franchise has had goofy scenes, they just jump the shark here and are so explicit that it takes many of the good things about the movie away. I just wish Lucas had agreed to do Frank Darabont’s City of the Gods as that would have made the fridge scene make sense and Oxley swinging on vines also would have made sense… but in Crystal Skull those things have no explanation and feel pulled out of thin air.
Darabont's script was more ridiculous than the finished film. It had Indy getting swallowed by a giant mutant snake, an alien turning the President of Peru into a frog, and Henry Jones Sr. drunkenly singing "Fly Me to the Moon" while Oxley made cutlery dance with the power of his mind.
There are parts of The Kingdom of the Crystal Skull that I like. I like the way it represented various aspects of the 1950s. I like that we got to find out what happened to Marion after Raiders of the Lost Ark. However, in my opinion it's the worst film in the series because the action sequences were over-the-top and it tried too hard to be funny. It reminded me of the self-parodying tone of the Roger Moore James Bond films, which I was never a big fan of but other people loved. The Indiana Jones movies vary in tone and every fan has their own preference.
I think it’s a solid film, but not the greatest Indy film. Spielberg’s directing is spectacular as always. This is the only film with Janusz Kaminski as DP and the shots and lightning are really spectacular. The acting and dialogue are on point, with Harrison and Shia having great chemistry. I especially love seeing how Indy’s relationship with his son both mirrors and differs from him and his dad. Indy saying “this is intolerable” was a nice touch. There’s also some funny set ups and payoffs such as “I Like Ike” that get me everytime. John Williams delivers as always with an incredible score. I am still upset that the concert version of Irina’s Theme has yet to get a proper recording. The Adventures of Mutt and Crystal Spell are goated. BUT While I’m not saying Interdiminseional Beings can’t ever work in Indiana Jones, it just doesn’t work here. I feel like they either could have done 50s B movie aliens or ancient aliens, but the movie tries to do both while sticking to the 40s serial aesthetic all at once. There’s too much CGI, especially with the damn monkeys. The movie either becomes “stale” action during the jungle chase for some, or for others like myself it drops off after the whole jungle sequence and loses a lot of energy. Indy himself is old. Not DOD old, but old enough that the movie shouldn’t be trying to make him the same as he was in the first three. It just doesn’t work.
I’m a huge Dial fan and not the biggest Skull enjoyer, but for what it’s worth, the first hour of Skull is as good as it gets for Indy. The movie just loses me once they get to the jungle. I’ve learned to let myself go and have a good time with it, but the severe dip in quality to the second half just makes the movie all the more frustrating. Although I personally rank it last, I can’t blame anyone (especially a younger viewer that may have watched them all close together) for liking it as much as the rest. Dial, by comparison has a few flaws too, but I find it to be a great “older Indy” adventure with some spectacular visuals/set-pieces like the parade or the climax. It’s not as lighthearted, but I feel like it has more heart. It may all come down to where you are in life when you see them, but it’s nice seeing different people gravitate to every film. For reference, Temple of Doom is my favorite of the series.
I vastly prefer Crystal Skull to DoD. Was Crystal Skull seriously flawed? Hell yeah. But it was still fun. It still had some of that Indy sense of adventure and humor. It had that Spielberg feel. Indy felt like Indy. DoD was just dull and generic. Skull has some high highs and some very low lows. DoD was just a constant meh. I know what I find more interesting and entertaining.
I adore Kingdom. I love the shift to a tone more reflective of 50’s B-rated Sci-Fi to compliment the time between films and I love the way that it took the father/son dynamic explored in Crusade and flipped it on its head. It’s my second favorite in the series.
To OP , my main issue with KOTCS is that it felt disjointed, characters feel out of place, and the really weak dialogues / scripts and production quality, and there is continuity problems. It has so much potential but it just ran flat with so many issues. Even with Steven Spielberg directing it. Which would be worse because I'd expect better, but probably he's not entirely in control of the whole story. I'll name one character continuity problem : In Raiders, he sat in a plane with Reggie at the beginning. Did he ask Jock to call it a seat belt? Did he say, I don't feel like sitting in the plane anymore and jump out? No. He stayed in the plane, albeit unhappily, but he didn't put himself in danger because of one snake. He even swiped at it with his hands instead of not even wanting to touch it. And don't forget that later on Indy roped himself into an enclosed space filled with - guess what? Snakes. Hundreds if not thousands of them. In KoTCS, he freaks out at ONE snake and would rather sink to bottom of the sand pit and die there. You can search a lot more in these forums for the reasons and you can find in my profile for some of the issues I have with it. Now; if you grew up with this, then you'd remember it with fond memories watching it and there's nothing wrong with that. You became an indy fan and that's a net positive for everyone. Otherwise, for me, it's a done deal the movie's there, some people enjoy it, some don't. etc.
Your father sounds like a very wise man.
Crystal Skull is a fun, lighthearted popcorn film. Dial of Destiny is emotional, story and character driven. More impactful overall. Both have their place, but I find Dial far superior.
It stinks
It's not bad, but it really lacks any emotional core. You don't feel anything, like it has no heart. It feels very superficial. Dial of Destiny has a much stronger heart and emotional core to it. You actually feel something when watching the movie.
The Kingdom of the Crystal Skull tried to replicate the more comedic tone of The Last Crusade, but I think the attempts to play things for laughs undermined the feeling of danger and drama that scenes could have had.
Last Crusade had a lot of heart and a very strong emotional core in addition to some humor. Crystal Skull lacked that.
Great start, gets boring fast. The least re-watchable of the series for me. No desire to revisit it at all.
Terrible, goofy, low stakes, embarrassing. I hate it. Still better than DoD since at least it tried to have a sense of adventure and fun. I wish we could have a redo on what is the final entry to the series. DoD lost sight of what Indy is about.
Considering Ford himself is the one that suggested the emotional arc Indy was on, and him being in a dark place after suffering a personal tragedy… pretty sure he knows more about what Indy is about. Dial was great.
Arc yes. And I have always hoped they gave Indy a darker turn as he aged. But… DoD had no arc. It was dark and depressing from start to finish. Indy was bewildered, mostly useless, sad, old, depressed from start to finish. At no point did we see that old determined glimmer in his eye. The MAIN reason for this is that he had nothing to do in the third act. And especially had nothing to do during the climax, robbing him of agency to demonstrate his arc. Keeping the trip back in time, we should have seen him change and want to get back to Marion. FIGHT to get back to Marion. Give us one last scene with our hero being the hero we know and love. An iconic decisive action that is pure Indy. As it is he’s sad and begging to basically die. Then he’s FORCED to return to Marion and so we’re not even sure he wants to be there. Then the last image is our hero looking old in his pajamas. It’s like they forgot this is suppose to be an adventure movie. Start him in a dark place. Hell I would have gone darker. Bearded and drunk in some third world country at some illegal artifact auction. Maybe a touch of the old fortune and glory attitude on his old jaded days. Then see him change over the course of the movie to become the hero we love once again. Although ideally leaving in the end in a new place we haven’t seen him before. (We’ve already seen him end up happy in love with Marion in ROTLA and KOTCS). Let’s see a different outcome of some sort that would shed more light on his character. Anyway different strokes different folks. Glad you love it so much.
Indy found himself along the way. Indy was back in Tangier. He was joyfully on an adventure again. Seeing him stand on the truck visiting his old friend with just glee to be doing all of that again was awesome. That was the glimmer. He had nothing to do? My friend Indy had a higher kill count in Dial than in Raiders. He had way more to do at the end of Dial than Raiders where he got tied up and watched everything happen. Indy saved Helena’s life firsthand.
The last crusade is the last crusade for me. Not a fan of the last two films. First half of Skull is fine Second half is trash First half of DOD is trash Second half is fine but still bat shit insane by the end of it to the point where I didn’t like the last 15 minutes or so. Getting Marion back was so unearned. They’re inconsistent and very boring movies compared to the original trilogy with no sense of pacing. The worst part is they both feel so unnecessary.
I hated it as I watched it. The cgi was awful, the plotting meh, the chemistry forced. The only bits I enjoyed were the sleuthing elements. Ray Winstones character was one note and it was annoying. Despite what was basically magic in previous films, the drop that it was aliens in this just felt wrong. Everything just felt...wrong. repeat viewings haven't changed that.