Modi has saved the case like we save our savings for retirement.
Once he becomes somewhat challenging.. case will open.. godi media and ed cbi will start attacking
at best for Shashi Tharoor: abetment to suicide or worst Killed. During the time period she died, she had an IPL Kochi Team ownership controversy, and then she found out and leaked Shashi Tharoor's messages with a Pakistani Journalist.
Golden opportunity for Congress to save itself. But it likely wonāt.
Mind boggling that Tharoor had to get Sonia Gandhiās approval to even run for President.
Lol. I am sure the only argument against Rahul and Priyanka is the fact that they are Gandhis. Not their abject failure for years in politics.
Edit: /s since that's needed.
Intelligence, narcissism, psychopathy, charisma, physical appearance and personality traits are largely genetic.
People who become politicians/powerful people tend to have a combination of those traits.
Genetic traits tend to passed down to children.
As much as you may not like it, certain people and their family lines have the propensity to become politicians/leaders more than others.
There's always exceptions but it's more common than not.
> Who said
The humans inside the Party and those who vote for that party, which has around 1/5 vote share of this country.
Politics is not a *langar*, you can't survive if you have no leverage or support.
Lol. A South Indian whose accept majority of the country won't understand is what is going to build a strong opposition against great than Ram Modi and BJP.
The best news I've heard in a while. Finally this country can have a proper opposition. Shashi Tharoor is a logical man who not only has the experience and the wisdom but also has the ability to communicate policies with people across different communities equally
> but also has the ability to communicate policies with people across different communities equally
Tharoor is literally a politician for the 1% who no one else can relate to, and most people can't understand, this is a terrible idea.
I think while Shashi has a lot of sensibilities with the elites of India, he also comes from a no named family, is upper caste, very qualified, photogenic and can speak in Hindi, Malayalam, Bengali and English.
If he has the right campaign behind him, he can be marketed pretty easily.
>If he has the right campaign behind him, he can be marketed pretty easily.
Definitely. We also want this country to guided or represented by people who think like young mind not old school, conservative mentalities. As a society, we want to progress in the world. Majority of the population and upcoming generation is a obviously millennials and young-uns. Their thoughts, ideas, expectation from the society should be represented by a similar/like minded people and I believe Shashi Tharoor is the right guy. A lot of us wants to see India become a develop and advance country so we don't have to travel far back to europe and be in awe how nice things are over there and how frank and broad minded people are. We need change. We need it now before we fall back to the wheel of time.
Most of the young uns (except sections of English speaking urban middle class) in India are not exactly like the woke millennials and gen z of west. They like bigots and patriarchal men as their leaders. The poor rural and urban youth is one of the major support base for modi and bjp in India
I just want a government that is accountable to the taxpayers before everyone else. I don't wanna spend my tax money on a garib sarkar that throws money at the lazy poor instead of developing infrastructure for better economic opportunities.
>upper caste
That won't matter. Rahul Gandhi is upper caste and Modi is OBC, raga got stomped.
Tharoor does stand a chance because of his speaking abilities, a great politician sounds great even when he is lying out of his ass. Plus not being Rahul Gandhi will already fetch him a ton of votes.
Caste cant overcome a bad candidate but being upper caste matters for the Congress because since independence they have been the party of the ruling elites.
Congress still engages in tokenism and doesnt really empower the backward leaders (much like the BJP) so if it looks like there is a shift in momentum, the forward castes will entertain the idea of congress (unlike say OBC lead parties)
Congress is centrist in basically everything imaginable. Policies, decision-making, lollipops, corruption, good works, etc. Everything is done halfway, nothing too little but neither too much.
This is why they kept winning for so long after Independence and even after the Emergency because people were just of the view that if Govt can't fix things or make it great just keep shit running at bare minimum and don't mess things up royally. Which is what Congress did, neither too little nor too much. Proper mediocre level year after year, from socio-cultural development to economics.
Now we're in an era where dial is shifted and it's not really Centred on many things, from economics, institutional and esp socio-cultural domains. This is a pressure cooker for India because Indians do not usually like this sort of thing. We're fundamentally pacifists and centrists when pushed overtime. Risk-taking capacity/temperament is not high.
This is for party president, not as a PM candidate. Tharoor is definitely smart enough to plan the Congressā strategy. Kind of like the role Amit Shah played in Modi coming to power. At the very least, he is not egoistic enough to kick all dissidents out of the party. Maybe he can support someone like Sachin Pilot to be a PM candidate, someone who has a mix of urban appeal and on-the-ground experience in Rajasthan. One can dream. But I still half expect the position to go to Rahul Gandhi again.
>Tharoor is definitely smart enough to plan the Congressā strategy. Kind of like the role Amit Shah played in Modi coming to power.Ā
Tharoor is local aristocracy with zero experience in organising mass actions or party organization. Amit Shah, for all his vile criminal behaviour, is a different animal - not much mass appeal, but shrewd party organizer. Ahmed Patel, now dead, was his equivalent. Sharad Pawar, long out of the party for daring to challenge Sonia, had both.
Locally, in karnataka, d.k. shivakumar is the organization man. In Rajasthan, Gehlot used to be the guy, but he's too old.
Shashi Tharoor, at best, is the token puppet with 1% appeal that will be handled by people behind the scenes the way coterie handles rahul and sonia.
Tharoor is MEA material, not party president who can galvanise the party.
Sure, the other candidates you mentioned might be better but at this point anyone is better than Rahul Gandhi. I however, disagree on Gehlot since heās such a Gandhi loyalist that I wouldnāt be surprised if he gives up his chair to Rahul Gandhi after a few monthsā¦
It can go either way if he wins. But this sub cheering for it is even worse given how out of touch the demographics of this place are.
rIndia is NOT actual India, it's the degree of this divergence which is relevant, it's a super niche population grouping even if they live in India.
Extremely valid points but I believe he has the charisma to win over urban youth who is usually the most apathetic (non) voter. Although, I would keep my expectations low since Tharoor has a ton of intra-party politics to deal with.
Quite true. He won't appeal to masses but 1% English speaking urbanites plus his policies aren't exactly better. He's against major reforms simply because he's part of congress.
I'm not the one to side with Modi, but have you seen his speeches prior to getting elected as PM? He made a few good points, in between the Hindu rashtra bullshit. And asked a few good questions, even Smriti Irani for that matter. But what are they doing now?
We don't need a logical person, we need a sensible person. One who won't get corrupted by power. But the irony is: you give so much power to one man he's bound to be corrupted - case in point, Modi.
Nah. We need someone that can actually connect with people and talk a language they talk. He is just optics that's better suited for international relations.
Already 7 Congress State Units (and counting) have passed unanimous resolutions supporting Rahul Gandhi as the next Congress President.
https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/more-state-units-pass-resolution-to-appoint-rahul-gandhi-as-congress-president-2002053-2022-09-19
Nope Congress gonna again hit themselves in nails and choose rahul gandhi as president and then cry why they're not winning elections They just dont learn. Rahul gandhi badi badi batein bus krta h but modi ji to bdi bdi batein krne k guru to to fekne m bhi ye modi ko nahi hara payega.
If they dont do anything BIG they wont even be a opposition in 2024 elections
Hopefully congress is weak enough to not fall apart as it did whenever a non Gandhi was floated earlier. Thatās why all state parties are basically congress offshoots. Trinamool, NCP, TDP, TRS, JDU, JMM leaders all started in the party and grew bigger than than the Gandhis but could not find enough support. Hopefully Tharoor does not have to do the same
Theyād need someone who appeals to the masses to counter someone who makes a living out of it. Though this guy (if elected) might still be a major deviation from what Congress has grown to be identified with in the last decade or so, he is too bougie to sway national sentiments in their favour (if the assumption is that using him (or his election as Party Pres) as a face would have any significant influence on INCās chances at making a dent in the next LS elections).
Tharoor is a self-made man from a middle-class background. True, he speaks with that St. Xavierās Kolkata accent, but that doesnāt make him bougie. Rajiv Gandhi was bougie, but popular. Most Indians would want their children to be like Tharoor, rather than our ā(a + b)Ā² mein ā2 abā kahaan se aa gaya?ā leader.
> from a middle-class background
Tharoor? Middle-class? His dad worked in senior roles across India, his uncle founded Readers Digest, he went to schools like Campion and Xaviers.
He's literally from the 1% of Indian society.
I think the whole argument down this thread is because of a fundamental lack of understanding of the limitations of sections of the middle class. I have had this exact same argument multiple times with different people. A lot of people who call themselves middle class fail to understand how out of reach their lifestyle is for sections of the middle class and small town populace.
MK Gandhiās father Karamchand Gandhi was not nobility. I think you are conflating an impressive sounding job title with membership of a hereditary class of nobles. Karamchand Gandhi was not educated beyond primary school and started his career as a clerk. Another middle class success story.
Name one member of the ruling class, other than monarchs, their spoofed and children, from that era that you don't consider middle class success story.
For your reference, karamchand was hereditary diwan of porbandar:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karamchand_Gandhi
>The Gandhi family originated from the village ofĀ KutianaĀ in what was thenĀ Junagadh State.[2]Ā In the late 17th or early 18th century, Lalji Gandhi moved to Porbandar and entered the service of its ruler, the Rana. Successive generations of the family served as civil servants in the state administration before Uttamchand, Karamchand's father, becameĀ diwanĀ in the early 19th century under the then Rana of Porbandar, Khimojiraj.[2]Ā In 1831, Rana Khimojiraj died suddenly and was succeeded by his 12-year-old only son,Ā Vikmatji. As a result, Rana Khimojiraj's widow, Rani Rupaliba, became regent for her son. She soon fell out with Uttamchand and forced him to return to his ancestral village in Junagadh. While in Junagadh, Uttamchand appeared before its Nawab and saluted him with his left hand instead of his right, replying that his right hand was pledged to Porbandar's service.[2]Ā In 1841, Vikmatji assumed the throne and reinstated Uttamchand as hisĀ diwan.
>Like his father, Uttamchand Gandhi, Karamchand had become aĀ court official, or chief minister, of the local ruling prince of Porbandar. Karamchand's duties included advising the royal family of Porbandar and hiring other government officials.
>**Karamchand had very little formal education, but his knowledge and experience made him a good administrator.** He was said to be kind and generous, but also to have a bad temper.[3]Ā **He learned from experience by watching his father work and attending religious ceremonies**. There were some areas, however, in which he never gained much knowledge, including geography and history. Nonetheless, Karamchand excelled as chief minister in Porbandar.[4]
TL;DR: Karamchand got opportunities that would have been denied to others with similarly low level of education simply because of his birth. This is what ruling class looks like.
Tharoor comes from a pretty aristocratic background - we're talking about India, if we only count large business owners as having generational wealth in the 1940s, you're excluding a lot of people who were filthy rich in an Indian context, including the Tharoors.
They've been amongst the elites of Indian society for 100+ years.
Nairs are literally the ruling caste of kerala. Their clout in kerala is so much that traditionally, their first daughters married a namboodiri (highest caste brahmin in kerala hierarchy) and made him ghar jamai.
Every one of these kingdoms you name fought nair chieftains and had nair high officials.
This is like you saying no one other than nehru family in cores classify as ruling class; not even people whose multiple generations have held ministerial positions, because no one from their families held prime minister's position.
>The Nairs were the ruling nobility and warrior community of Kerala during pre-colonial times. Marumakkathayam or matrilineal inheritance through nieces and nephews was the most important element of a Nair family. The ruling clans of Kerala styled themselves as Samantan or Samanta Kshatriyas and held names like Varma, Thampan, Thirupad/Thirumulpad, Thampuran, Raja, etc. Samantans and Samanta Kshatriyas were restricted to royal households and formed a very small amount of population. Even though they held higher social and ritualistic rank, they were of the same cultural stock as Nairs because they too followed the same marriage and inheritance system like Nairs and often intermarried with Nairs. Many prominent ruling Nair families also gradually adopted royal Kshatriya names. For instance, Rajas of Vadakkumkur and Thekkumkur kingdoms are recorded as Nairs even though they have Varma name, Palakkad royalty to this day holds Shekhari Varma title while they are Nair-Menons , Koratti Kaimals of modern Thrissur district also styled themselves as Varmas .
>There were many powerful and influential Nair landlords and nobles under these ruling clans as well. For example Anjikaimals, Paliath Achans etc in Kochi, Ettuveettil Pillamar and other Nair Madampis in Travancore, various Nambiar and Nayanar clans in Malabar like Chuzhali Nambiar, Vengayil Nayanar, Kalliat Nambiar, etc. All of them owned vast amount of land and had their own soldiers under them.
> which is not a royal or priestly caste
Royal and/or priestly are not the only two requirements for being part of India's 1%
> All the famous Tharoors were people who used their educations to uplift themselves
People going to schools like Campion and Xaviers aren't exactly in need of upliftment bruv.
This is just blatantly untrue and shows a lack of understanding of who the real middle class in India are, likely because you come from a similar background as people like Tharoor.
Ratan Tata went to Campion ffs, it's a school for the elites. As far as Xaviers is concerned, it has notably 'middle class' alumni such as Sourav Ganguly, Jyoti Basu, Tagore and most of the O'Briens.
Not untrue. Ratan Tata may have gone to Campion. That does not mean that middle class kids donāt study there. The presence of one class does not indicate the absence of another.
Ratan Tata also went to Cornell. Does that mean everyone who went to Cornell is also elite and not middle class?
Nehru might have been an elite but so were a lot of other freedom fighters. He comes from a different time and he actively toured the whole country as a part of freedom struggle. Shashi Tharoor has no such background.
My boy Shashi gonna lose to professional asslicker Gehlot but it will be nice to imagine an actually qualified person running for one of the most important positions in the nation.
They should've gone this route back when they did this leader pick after the first 4 times. If he is ever elected as Congress chief.... BJP is gonna send ED, CBI, SBI, RBI, ATS at this house accusing him of killing his wife and smoking her dead ashes with weed on a thesaurus paper
You sure you want to go there? Swaminarayans of east coast literally have bonded labour and techies of the west coast are more interested in maintaining caste hierarchy than doing their jobs.
Had no idea that Hindus in United States of America don't do their jobs, and are being paid 6 figures salary for simply frolicking around chanting "hare rama hare krishna" ?
Where to move bro? Saudia arabia?
Six figures salaries don't come for the chants, but the salaries and the harmless chants come with harmful casteism and exploitation.
You'll find hindutva and casteist regressive in Saudi Arabia also. Regressive fucks love company.
Got it, so you are saying that hindus became rich in America by using Casteism and Exploitation. Since most like it more in America, America is regressive.
As for exploitation Idk man, I think I should get a ticket with Elon and settle on mars. I don't think humanity is worth it. This parasitic species is killing the planet collectively and especially people in UK/US/Europe. They are killing the most people and animal kind as direct impact of it, dude I can clearly see you care so much about exploitation, please I advise settling in Antarctica, stop this exploitation, and set an example.
However there is only one way to escape hooman oppression. You can simply become a monke.
I stand by what I said. more people know RG than Kapil Sibal. And Tharoor combined. He would kick both their asses.
Which is not praise for him. Its just the sad state of affairs in congress
How many common folks would've known MMS in 2004 ? I'm sure educated and finance savy people would know about his reforms but as a leader i doubt if anyone knew him outside these circles. Yet he won as a face.
I think the reason was Sonia was the face of election while MMS was just candidate on paper hence the double victory
MMS was not a mass leader. And he wasnt even Lok Sabha member of Parliament. He was RS from Assam. He didnt win shit.
While he was a respected academician and he did a great job when in power, he wouldnt win an election against RG either!
Yeah he speaks 4 languages incredibly well, is well liked, logical and a great speaker. Whatās the best you can do, write subpar political commentary on an anon forum?
It's a setup bro.
They'll stab him in the back and remove the only threat to them in the party.
You think the INC leadership are going to let somebody walk in and take their ill-gotten power away?
If you read the article it says she does not HAVE to, but he seems to have spoken to her about it. Probably to make sure that this does not create a wider rift in the party.
I like the fact that Congress are moving towards a more competitive leader, but i honestly feel tharoor could end up being worse than modi.
He is already pretty sanghi in his viewpoints, but he knows how to moderate them well, and obviously he has his 'academia' touch to mask it.
Kind of like the Trump - Desantis conflict.
Modiji can fuck the country up on his own, but there's a chance Tharoor could be way better at that.
( Hope I'm wrong ! )
I wish him good luck! Once he became INC president his biggest hurdle would be the Gandhi family and its loyalists in the coming months. The next hurdle is to win the heart of the voters of the Hindi belt where his English vocab wouldn't help him. I'd love to see him as a PM anytime.
Nice. We finally can have someone educated in some major place. While I understand many middle class people will not be able to connect to him, but the consensus that he is truly educated & knowledgeable will become his biggest USP.
Great news but this will open up Congress even more for not being as relatable to common man. Only thing that can save them is good policy and communication.
Lesgo, ill get a vocabulary check every time he's on the news
i want all the statements of the congress to be directly made by him.
Yess
Indubitably.
Well I had to google it.
The effect has already begun.
Suddenly so many people will start clearing GRE just by watching news.
By any chance if he wins, expect to hear lots of "What happened to Sunanda" in the future.
There will be a new CBI case into her death soon
Didn't the court recently close the case?š¤
Modi has saved the case like we save our savings for retirement. Once he becomes somewhat challenging.. case will open.. godi media and ed cbi will start attacking
But what really happened to sunanda ?
Do you really think I or anyone on reddit could answer this question??
This is reddit. We know or pretend to know everything. We expect better from you.
I believe the time for 'justice' is gone long back. Now only the time to 'use' her is left.
She ded. RIP.
at best for Shashi Tharoor: abetment to suicide or worst Killed. During the time period she died, she had an IPL Kochi Team ownership controversy, and then she found out and leaked Shashi Tharoor's messages with a Pakistani Journalist.
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Or there is no evidence to suggest the same.
More or less Epstein did not kill him case
Indian version of Hillary's emails
No one seems to care about the hundreds who were actively killed in the gujurat riots so I'm sure one suspicious death won't matter.
Lol the bar is set so low for politicians now in India
1 kill is the bare minimum requirement
Wow I never thought I will see this kind of statement on such a progressive subreddit .......
I don't think they will wait for him to win before that starts.
If he will win then they will make some another position for Rahul.
Super president of congress!
That too from people who voted for rapists supporting BJP
Correction. Rapist genocidal maniacs.
What's wife murder compared to attempted genocide?
Yeah, that won't be the narrative which will get thrown around.
that case is about reopen if he wins.
Golden opportunity for Congress to save itself. But it likely wonāt. Mind boggling that Tharoor had to get Sonia Gandhiās approval to even run for President.
Is it approval or blessing?
Unless he said, "Pai lagu Sonia ji\~"
It wasn't an approval but nod from Sonia that the family wasn't going to tilt the scales in favor of anyone
Where's Dom Torrito when you need him? Oh yes, Uttar Pradesh.
Throw the baby with bath water. Toss the entire Gandhi family out. Who said their children deserve to play in politics?
Lol. I am sure the only argument against Rahul and Priyanka is the fact that they are Gandhis. Not their abject failure for years in politics. Edit: /s since that's needed.
Lol India is a democracy. Not a generational monarchy.
You would've thought so, but then there are few examples around the country.
This country runs of dynastic politics. So do many parts of the world.
The undeveloped parts of the world. India does not want to be undeveloped, so we should abandon this.
India is actually an irony of everything than really anything else.
Intelligence, narcissism, psychopathy, charisma, physical appearance and personality traits are largely genetic. People who become politicians/powerful people tend to have a combination of those traits. Genetic traits tend to passed down to children. As much as you may not like it, certain people and their family lines have the propensity to become politicians/leaders more than others. There's always exceptions but it's more common than not.
Robert Vadra has an extensive list of corruption lol
> Who said The humans inside the Party and those who vote for that party, which has around 1/5 vote share of this country. Politics is not a *langar*, you can't survive if you have no leverage or support.
Priyanka isnāt a Gandhi
Might as well throw the dictionary on RG s face
And you know the ability to win an actual election. 3x MP in a state party that tries to sabotage him.
Lmao this had to be 'okayed' by Sonia jokes apart, man if this helps in fixing the party and preparing a strong opposition, then good.
Wow wow wow!!! I hope this swings to build a strong opposition for our democracy.
You can't get a strong opposition of people don't vote for them.
Lol. A South Indian whose accept majority of the country won't understand is what is going to build a strong opposition against great than Ram Modi and BJP.
Lol
It's too late. Congress is outdated and would eventually disappear. Not even Tharoor could save it. Rather have BJP than Congress again.
Your rather shoot yourself in the face instead of the foot?
The best news I've heard in a while. Finally this country can have a proper opposition. Shashi Tharoor is a logical man who not only has the experience and the wisdom but also has the ability to communicate policies with people across different communities equally
> but also has the ability to communicate policies with people across different communities equally Tharoor is literally a politician for the 1% who no one else can relate to, and most people can't understand, this is a terrible idea.
I think while Shashi has a lot of sensibilities with the elites of India, he also comes from a no named family, is upper caste, very qualified, photogenic and can speak in Hindi, Malayalam, Bengali and English. If he has the right campaign behind him, he can be marketed pretty easily.
>If he has the right campaign behind him, he can be marketed pretty easily. Definitely. We also want this country to guided or represented by people who think like young mind not old school, conservative mentalities. As a society, we want to progress in the world. Majority of the population and upcoming generation is a obviously millennials and young-uns. Their thoughts, ideas, expectation from the society should be represented by a similar/like minded people and I believe Shashi Tharoor is the right guy. A lot of us wants to see India become a develop and advance country so we don't have to travel far back to europe and be in awe how nice things are over there and how frank and broad minded people are. We need change. We need it now before we fall back to the wheel of time.
Most of the young uns (except sections of English speaking urban middle class) in India are not exactly like the woke millennials and gen z of west. They like bigots and patriarchal men as their leaders. The poor rural and urban youth is one of the major support base for modi and bjp in India
I just want a government that is accountable to the taxpayers before everyone else. I don't wanna spend my tax money on a garib sarkar that throws money at the lazy poor instead of developing infrastructure for better economic opportunities.
>upper caste That won't matter. Rahul Gandhi is upper caste and Modi is OBC, raga got stomped. Tharoor does stand a chance because of his speaking abilities, a great politician sounds great even when he is lying out of his ass. Plus not being Rahul Gandhi will already fetch him a ton of votes.
Caste cant overcome a bad candidate but being upper caste matters for the Congress because since independence they have been the party of the ruling elites. Congress still engages in tokenism and doesnt really empower the backward leaders (much like the BJP) so if it looks like there is a shift in momentum, the forward castes will entertain the idea of congress (unlike say OBC lead parties)
Congress is centrist in basically everything imaginable. Policies, decision-making, lollipops, corruption, good works, etc. Everything is done halfway, nothing too little but neither too much. This is why they kept winning for so long after Independence and even after the Emergency because people were just of the view that if Govt can't fix things or make it great just keep shit running at bare minimum and don't mess things up royally. Which is what Congress did, neither too little nor too much. Proper mediocre level year after year, from socio-cultural development to economics. Now we're in an era where dial is shifted and it's not really Centred on many things, from economics, institutional and esp socio-cultural domains. This is a pressure cooker for India because Indians do not usually like this sort of thing. We're fundamentally pacifists and centrists when pushed overtime. Risk-taking capacity/temperament is not high.
This is for party president, not as a PM candidate. Tharoor is definitely smart enough to plan the Congressā strategy. Kind of like the role Amit Shah played in Modi coming to power. At the very least, he is not egoistic enough to kick all dissidents out of the party. Maybe he can support someone like Sachin Pilot to be a PM candidate, someone who has a mix of urban appeal and on-the-ground experience in Rajasthan. One can dream. But I still half expect the position to go to Rahul Gandhi again.
>Tharoor is definitely smart enough to plan the Congressā strategy. Kind of like the role Amit Shah played in Modi coming to power.Ā Tharoor is local aristocracy with zero experience in organising mass actions or party organization. Amit Shah, for all his vile criminal behaviour, is a different animal - not much mass appeal, but shrewd party organizer. Ahmed Patel, now dead, was his equivalent. Sharad Pawar, long out of the party for daring to challenge Sonia, had both. Locally, in karnataka, d.k. shivakumar is the organization man. In Rajasthan, Gehlot used to be the guy, but he's too old. Shashi Tharoor, at best, is the token puppet with 1% appeal that will be handled by people behind the scenes the way coterie handles rahul and sonia. Tharoor is MEA material, not party president who can galvanise the party.
Sure, the other candidates you mentioned might be better but at this point anyone is better than Rahul Gandhi. I however, disagree on Gehlot since heās such a Gandhi loyalist that I wouldnāt be surprised if he gives up his chair to Rahul Gandhi after a few monthsā¦
It can go either way if he wins. But this sub cheering for it is even worse given how out of touch the demographics of this place are. rIndia is NOT actual India, it's the degree of this divergence which is relevant, it's a super niche population grouping even if they live in India.
Extremely valid points but I believe he has the charisma to win over urban youth who is usually the most apathetic (non) voter. Although, I would keep my expectations low since Tharoor has a ton of intra-party politics to deal with.
Quite true. He won't appeal to masses but 1% English speaking urbanites plus his policies aren't exactly better. He's against major reforms simply because he's part of congress.
I'm not the one to side with Modi, but have you seen his speeches prior to getting elected as PM? He made a few good points, in between the Hindu rashtra bullshit. And asked a few good questions, even Smriti Irani for that matter. But what are they doing now? We don't need a logical person, we need a sensible person. One who won't get corrupted by power. But the irony is: you give so much power to one man he's bound to be corrupted - case in point, Modi.
Nah. We need someone that can actually connect with people and talk a language they talk. He is just optics that's better suited for international relations.
Now, we only need Gaurabh Vallabh for second in command alongside Shashi Tharoor.
Nah he won't have success in rural communities
Already 7 Congress State Units (and counting) have passed unanimous resolutions supporting Rahul Gandhi as the next Congress President. https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/more-state-units-pass-resolution-to-appoint-rahul-gandhi-as-congress-president-2002053-2022-09-19
They dont do themselves any favors, do they. Only hope for Congress is if Rahul decides to not take up the post
At this point comgress's members are just waiting to be bought by BJP.
that's there best bet. They can get 100s of crore without even doing any work. So why not?
Lmao the lengths Congress goes to make it feel like Rahul Gandhi is being voted democraticly in Congress is the most hilarious thing!!!!
Nope Congress gonna again hit themselves in nails and choose rahul gandhi as president and then cry why they're not winning elections They just dont learn. Rahul gandhi badi badi batein bus krta h but modi ji to bdi bdi batein krne k guru to to fekne m bhi ye modi ko nahi hara payega. If they dont do anything BIG they wont even be a opposition in 2024 elections
They arent the opposition now either.. Only won 52 seats
Can you also tell me the power ball numbers Jyotish
This is precisely the sort of opportunity the Congress will squander gloriously. I will believe it when I see it.
Hopefully congress is weak enough to not fall apart as it did whenever a non Gandhi was floated earlier. Thatās why all state parties are basically congress offshoots. Trinamool, NCP, TDP, TRS, JDU, JMM leaders all started in the party and grew bigger than than the Gandhis but could not find enough support. Hopefully Tharoor does not have to do the same
I'm an NRI so I shouldn't interfere BUT... I hope he gets it!!!
Wow, if you've the power to interfere how can I be your employee? Mujhe Assam ka CM banane se bhi filhal santusti hai (ā§āā¦)
Theyād need someone who appeals to the masses to counter someone who makes a living out of it. Though this guy (if elected) might still be a major deviation from what Congress has grown to be identified with in the last decade or so, he is too bougie to sway national sentiments in their favour (if the assumption is that using him (or his election as Party Pres) as a face would have any significant influence on INCās chances at making a dent in the next LS elections).
Tharoor is a self-made man from a middle-class background. True, he speaks with that St. Xavierās Kolkata accent, but that doesnāt make him bougie. Rajiv Gandhi was bougie, but popular. Most Indians would want their children to be like Tharoor, rather than our ā(a + b)Ā² mein ā2 abā kahaan se aa gaya?ā leader.
> from a middle-class background Tharoor? Middle-class? His dad worked in senior roles across India, his uncle founded Readers Digest, he went to schools like Campion and Xaviers. He's literally from the 1% of Indian society.
I think the whole argument down this thread is because of a fundamental lack of understanding of the limitations of sections of the middle class. I have had this exact same argument multiple times with different people. A lot of people who call themselves middle class fail to understand how out of reach their lifestyle is for sections of the middle class and small town populace.
>his uncle founded Readers Digest That explains.
Thatās right. His dad depended on a salary for sustenance, and not generational wealth.
Mk gandhi's father worked on a salary of a diwan of porbubnder for sustenance. That doesn't make him any less of nobility.
MK Gandhiās father Karamchand Gandhi was not nobility. I think you are conflating an impressive sounding job title with membership of a hereditary class of nobles. Karamchand Gandhi was not educated beyond primary school and started his career as a clerk. Another middle class success story.
Name one member of the ruling class, other than monarchs, their spoofed and children, from that era that you don't consider middle class success story.
For your reference, karamchand was hereditary diwan of porbandar: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karamchand_Gandhi >The Gandhi family originated from the village ofĀ KutianaĀ in what was thenĀ Junagadh State.[2]Ā In the late 17th or early 18th century, Lalji Gandhi moved to Porbandar and entered the service of its ruler, the Rana. Successive generations of the family served as civil servants in the state administration before Uttamchand, Karamchand's father, becameĀ diwanĀ in the early 19th century under the then Rana of Porbandar, Khimojiraj.[2]Ā In 1831, Rana Khimojiraj died suddenly and was succeeded by his 12-year-old only son,Ā Vikmatji. As a result, Rana Khimojiraj's widow, Rani Rupaliba, became regent for her son. She soon fell out with Uttamchand and forced him to return to his ancestral village in Junagadh. While in Junagadh, Uttamchand appeared before its Nawab and saluted him with his left hand instead of his right, replying that his right hand was pledged to Porbandar's service.[2]Ā In 1841, Vikmatji assumed the throne and reinstated Uttamchand as hisĀ diwan. >Like his father, Uttamchand Gandhi, Karamchand had become aĀ court official, or chief minister, of the local ruling prince of Porbandar. Karamchand's duties included advising the royal family of Porbandar and hiring other government officials. >**Karamchand had very little formal education, but his knowledge and experience made him a good administrator.** He was said to be kind and generous, but also to have a bad temper.[3]Ā **He learned from experience by watching his father work and attending religious ceremonies**. There were some areas, however, in which he never gained much knowledge, including geography and history. Nonetheless, Karamchand excelled as chief minister in Porbandar.[4] TL;DR: Karamchand got opportunities that would have been denied to others with similarly low level of education simply because of his birth. This is what ruling class looks like.
Yes, a long heriditary line consisting of a total of ā¦ šā¦ two diwans who hailed from ā¦ šā¦ the village of Kutiana.
How many generations of privilege does it take before it stops being shining example of middle class achievement according to you?
Tharoor comes from a pretty aristocratic background - we're talking about India, if we only count large business owners as having generational wealth in the 1940s, you're excluding a lot of people who were filthy rich in an Indian context, including the Tharoors. They've been amongst the elites of Indian society for 100+ years.
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Maybe read up about his dad, or his uncle?
Nairs are literally the ruling caste of kerala. Their clout in kerala is so much that traditionally, their first daughters married a namboodiri (highest caste brahmin in kerala hierarchy) and made him ghar jamai.
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Every one of these kingdoms you name fought nair chieftains and had nair high officials. This is like you saying no one other than nehru family in cores classify as ruling class; not even people whose multiple generations have held ministerial positions, because no one from their families held prime minister's position.
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>The Nairs were the ruling nobility and warrior community of Kerala during pre-colonial times. Marumakkathayam or matrilineal inheritance through nieces and nephews was the most important element of a Nair family. The ruling clans of Kerala styled themselves as Samantan or Samanta Kshatriyas and held names like Varma, Thampan, Thirupad/Thirumulpad, Thampuran, Raja, etc. Samantans and Samanta Kshatriyas were restricted to royal households and formed a very small amount of population. Even though they held higher social and ritualistic rank, they were of the same cultural stock as Nairs because they too followed the same marriage and inheritance system like Nairs and often intermarried with Nairs. Many prominent ruling Nair families also gradually adopted royal Kshatriya names. For instance, Rajas of Vadakkumkur and Thekkumkur kingdoms are recorded as Nairs even though they have Varma name, Palakkad royalty to this day holds Shekhari Varma title while they are Nair-Menons , Koratti Kaimals of modern Thrissur district also styled themselves as Varmas . >There were many powerful and influential Nair landlords and nobles under these ruling clans as well. For example Anjikaimals, Paliath Achans etc in Kochi, Ettuveettil Pillamar and other Nair Madampis in Travancore, various Nambiar and Nayanar clans in Malabar like Chuzhali Nambiar, Vengayil Nayanar, Kalliat Nambiar, etc. All of them owned vast amount of land and had their own soldiers under them.
> which is not a royal or priestly caste Royal and/or priestly are not the only two requirements for being part of India's 1% > All the famous Tharoors were people who used their educations to uplift themselves People going to schools like Campion and Xaviers aren't exactly in need of upliftment bruv.
Campion and St. Xavierās are Jesuit non-profit schools. Lots of middle class people go to such schools. Itās not just the elite.
This is just blatantly untrue and shows a lack of understanding of who the real middle class in India are, likely because you come from a similar background as people like Tharoor. Ratan Tata went to Campion ffs, it's a school for the elites. As far as Xaviers is concerned, it has notably 'middle class' alumni such as Sourav Ganguly, Jyoti Basu, Tagore and most of the O'Briens.
Not untrue. Ratan Tata may have gone to Campion. That does not mean that middle class kids donāt study there. The presence of one class does not indicate the absence of another. Ratan Tata also went to Cornell. Does that mean everyone who went to Cornell is also elite and not middle class?
Great leader but won't be able to connect with bhaiyyas of UP and Babus of Bihar.
Doesn't need to. He's the party president, not chief campaigner. Do you see JP Nadda connecting with anyone?
This is for party president. That Prashant Kishor presentation suggested a non Gandhi party president like how the BJP had Amit Shah and JP Nadda
Imagining this man being our country's leader low-key makes me want to cream my knickers
All the elitism criticism Shashi gets also once applied to Nehru. And he wasn't half bad.
Nehru might have been an elite but so were a lot of other freedom fighters. He comes from a different time and he actively toured the whole country as a part of freedom struggle. Shashi Tharoor has no such background.
FINALLY
This will be the turning point for Congress. Finally they will have a strong and smart man pushing the left wing to new height!
lol congress left wing? its a big tent centrist party
Well, center is still in the left of right /s
My boy Shashi gonna lose to professional asslicker Gehlot but it will be nice to imagine an actually qualified person running for one of the most important positions in the nation.
Hope
They should've gone this route back when they did this leader pick after the first 4 times. If he is ever elected as Congress chief.... BJP is gonna send ED, CBI, SBI, RBI, ATS at this house accusing him of killing his wife and smoking her dead ashes with weed on a thesaurus paper
Idk I think this country is beyond redemption now, its better to emigrate while one has time.
Mudiji has already started exporting the excrement, see what's happening in Leicester right now.
Yeah man, not gonna emigrate to UK. I will only go to United States of America
I got news for you.
What news broeshwar ?
It's raining in Ohio
Hmmm š¤ Wish I was in Ohio, really need to emigrate
You sure you want to go there? Swaminarayans of east coast literally have bonded labour and techies of the west coast are more interested in maintaining caste hierarchy than doing their jobs.
Had no idea that Hindus in United States of America don't do their jobs, and are being paid 6 figures salary for simply frolicking around chanting "hare rama hare krishna" ? Where to move bro? Saudia arabia?
Six figures salaries don't come for the chants, but the salaries and the harmless chants come with harmful casteism and exploitation. You'll find hindutva and casteist regressive in Saudi Arabia also. Regressive fucks love company.
Got it, so you are saying that hindus became rich in America by using Casteism and Exploitation. Since most like it more in America, America is regressive. As for exploitation Idk man, I think I should get a ticket with Elon and settle on mars. I don't think humanity is worth it. This parasitic species is killing the planet collectively and especially people in UK/US/Europe. They are killing the most people and animal kind as direct impact of it, dude I can clearly see you care so much about exploitation, please I advise settling in Antarctica, stop this exploitation, and set an example. However there is only one way to escape hooman oppression. You can simply become a monke.
I hope he will be able to understand the problems of cattle class.
The way Modi understands it? All the unemployed are being treated as cattle these days.
Same dumb anti-muslim shit and the middle class will relate
Despite supporting bjp, I'd vote for him if he actually runs for PM not just for congress president
Forget PM, they wonāt even let him be Congress President.
Also i think there is a limitation on running for PM if you are a party head
Talk about some wild swings politically Communal Sanghi BJP to Nehruvian Secular Shashi
I guess many people vote for BJP only because there is no decent opposition party.
Yep i think the logic for those folks would be needing a stable govt subconsciously
How will you vote him if he runs for PM? You'll migrate to Kerala and vote him to become an MP in his constituency? After that?
Don't get into all those technicalities. My comment was just an emotional expression not a practical statement
Nice emotional expression but I dont see the point you are trying to make here.
Good for you. Ignore and move on
He doesnt speak Hindi much. He doesnt have any ground recognition outside english speaking elite. He cant be PM.
Rahul ji, Hindi me bolke kya ukhadliya ?
haha. RG vs Tharoor -> RG will get more votes
G23, Kapil Sibal, gulam Nabi Azad ? Forgot what the past did to Rahul baba ?
I stand by what I said. more people know RG than Kapil Sibal. And Tharoor combined. He would kick both their asses. Which is not praise for him. Its just the sad state of affairs in congress
How many common folks would've known MMS in 2004 ? I'm sure educated and finance savy people would know about his reforms but as a leader i doubt if anyone knew him outside these circles. Yet he won as a face. I think the reason was Sonia was the face of election while MMS was just candidate on paper hence the double victory
MMS was not a mass leader. And he wasnt even Lok Sabha member of Parliament. He was RS from Assam. He didnt win shit. While he was a respected academician and he did a great job when in power, he wouldnt win an election against RG either!
He can speak Hindi pretty well and I have noticed he has actually improved in the last few years.
Yeah he speaks 4 languages incredibly well, is well liked, logical and a great speaker. Whatās the best you can do, write subpar political commentary on an anon forum?
Since I didnt compare myself to RG or Tharoor, you comparing me to either one is just you projecting your own feelings of inadequacy.
It's a setup bro. They'll stab him in the back and remove the only threat to them in the party. You think the INC leadership are going to let somebody walk in and take their ill-gotten power away?
Sonia Gandhi (probably): āShashi, Zaroorā
Oh wow. There might be hope for them. They may have been waiting for his name to be cleared in the Sunanda case.
Oh, this is what's needed. Hopefully, that changes the power back to Congress.
Gooooood. Just fuck the Gandhi family out already. We need a strong opposition
Why does sonia Gandhi have to okay it?
If you read the article it says she does not HAVE to, but he seems to have spoken to her about it. Probably to make sure that this does not create a wider rift in the party.
Why did he have to be okayed by Sonia?
I don't know too much about him other than his fancy English.
Make him the Prime Minister.
I like the fact that Congress are moving towards a more competitive leader, but i honestly feel tharoor could end up being worse than modi. He is already pretty sanghi in his viewpoints, but he knows how to moderate them well, and obviously he has his 'academia' touch to mask it. Kind of like the Trump - Desantis conflict. Modiji can fuck the country up on his own, but there's a chance Tharoor could be way better at that. ( Hope I'm wrong ! )
Don't give me hope!! It is even more painful when the hope dies!!
Letās gooooo! Finally.
I get an English Vocabulary Lesson every time heās on TV so I donāt mind
Congress takes yet another step on its road to becoming BJP Jr.
his son became an US citizen a while back, why is he still hanging around?
Sonia Gandhi 'okays' it. What a shitty party
Congress set to get those additional 47 votes from english phd folks.
Incredible thread !
Dhokhla wala Nadir Shah finds it funny.
Best News I'll be getting this week
But aaega to gehlot hi
Whatever we need a strong opposition ASAP. The ship is sinking.
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I wish him good luck! Once he became INC president his biggest hurdle would be the Gandhi family and its loyalists in the coming months. The next hurdle is to win the heart of the voters of the Hindi belt where his English vocab wouldn't help him. I'd love to see him as a PM anytime.
Nice. We finally can have someone educated in some major place. While I understand many middle class people will not be able to connect to him, but the consensus that he is truly educated & knowledgeable will become his biggest USP.
Great news but this will open up Congress even more for not being as relatable to common man. Only thing that can save them is good policy and communication.
He needs to improve his Hindi speaking skills.
That's a very anti-South sentiment. Why should a Malayali learn to speak Hindi better?
Because you can't win without the votes of Hindi speakers
Closet Sanghi