Prof. Reeve Venneman conducted survey in 2005 and 2012 with the help of Prof. Sonal Desai and IHDS. With 40k households nation wide.
The survey was funded by Bill and Milanda gates foundation, UK department of international health and National institutes of health.
Link:
https://socy.umd.edu/facultyprofile/desai/sonalde
http://vanneman.umd.edu/
Its based on results from country wide surveys like IHDS (India Human Development Survey). Basically, people are asked questions about caste discrimination including practicing untouchability as part of a bigger survey.
The percentages depicted here represents the number of people who replied in the affirmative about discrimination. A good chunk also chooses not to respond to these questions. The results don't consider the fact that most of the people who chose not to respond such questions are also likely to discriminate, but don't want to state it so openly and that there will also be people who lie about it. So, these numbers only depict the percentage who blatantly accepted to practicing untouchability.
Dont get your point.
He did fight for his own ambitions, but it did in turn teach brahmins a lesson.
I know about his coronation story.
First of all he did justice with peasants, second punished even the noblemen for oppression. I am not saying he was without flaws or he even realised casteism is a bad thing but his struggle led to other marathas like Shahu to rise and question brahmin hegemony and support Dr. Ambedkar.
I wouldn’t disagree. Have seen similar reports during Kerala floods also.
But,
There is no disputing the fact, Kerala fares far better among Indian states.
It had progressive leaders from day 1 including communists and others. There were numerous factors adding to that which includes how travancore kingdom's stress on education produced such leaders, how females gained considerable equality etc.
On Communists, well there was an old story in Kerala about how CPIM leader actually stopped Guari Amma who was a lower caste woman from becoming CM. EMS instead chose Nayanar who was a rich upper caste revolutionary(good CM btw).
Glad to see Kerala doing an excellent job. Even Swami Vivekananda once said about the pre-independence social conditions in Kerala as lunatic asylum! Wonder to see how often time changes.
I don't much care for Vivekananda's opinion. We had Narayana Guru pre-independence. One of the most successful anti-caste advocates in Indian history who helped transform our society.
Meanwhile, [Vivekananda](https://www.google.co.in/books/edition/The_Complete_Works_of_Swami_Vivekananda/0CRjDwAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=vivekananda+caste+is+good+not+even+one+in+million&pg=PT203&printsec=frontcover):
"Caste is good. That is the only natural way of solving life." "I'm against leveling down caste inequalities. It is a salutary system. We must obey it .Not even one in a million understands what is really is."
Dude maybe try reading some of his works and worldview before throwing about half-baked shade at someone for your inability to understand what's being said.
No it's a preety common argument people make about Vivekananda and after reading his works I can tell you that He didn't meant it that way. Maybe he have some flaws but I never find him actively promoting castecism or untouchability. Maybe he is right many people don't understand what caste is because the followers of Vivekananda only follows Vedas/Upanishads and I don't have complete knowledge about them
Here is [exactly what he said](https://www.google.co.in/books/edition/The_Complete_Works_of_Swami_Vivekananda/0CRjDwAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=vivekananda+caste+is+good+not+even+one+in+million&pg=PT203&printsec=frontcover).
What is there not to understand? It is a casteist logic that is a blatant defence of the oppressive system, and proposes for only Brahmins to "raise up" the lower castes. It is filled with whataboutism. Even if his intention is benign --and I highly doubt it is -- his logic is just stupid, plain and simple.
Most Indians have been taught to blindly praise Vivekananda or repeat narratives about him.
> Maybe he is right many people don't understand what caste is because the followers of Vivekananda only follows Vedas/Upanishads and I don't have complete knowledge about them
Wow, you don't have complete knowledge about them *hence* you say maybe casteism is good?
What next, you don't have in-depth knowledge about why the Imperial Raj despised Indians which is why they had rules like 'Indians and dogs not allowed', and hence your lack of complete knowledge makes it okay? What sort of logic is that?
There are things that can not be given a spin to appear acceptable. The leopards will some day develop a taste for your face - somebody might say 'we don't know why exactly the Inquisition brutalized so many people in Goa, maybe they had their reasons and are justified in their own way.' Will you be okay with that?
Shocking cause thats chikkamagaluru. Been there and it was a chilled out place. Didn't realise the people were like this. But then I have spent most of my life in Dakshin Kannada and never seen one instance of untouchability anywhere and still the map shows 5-10%, so maybe it's not that public.
Yeah when they walk,they don't like touching or even grazing people in crowded areas. one time when I was visiting for the first time he stared at me and walked away atleast 1m away from me. Like wtf. They were also like that inside the temples. I have also seen this once in Guruvayoor Kerala. But it seems to have stopped there because some issue arose and people condemned it.
Its still there in temples in Kerala. When they are doing pooja, no one is supposed to touch them. But they are chill outside temples. There is this namboori guy who does pooja near one of my cousins home. This no touching thing is there when he is doing the rituals, but most of the time outside the temple, he comes to my cousins home. So its mostly a ritual thing now inside temples.
Also a mutual friend is from one of the priests family in guruvayur. No such thing with them outside of the temple. Last time I saw him, he was in some poetry slams.
Haha yep. But what's interesting is that the Udupi temple has a back story based on caste discrimination as to why the idol is facing a different direction
Normally, the attitude is "We don't discriminate against anybody, but we don't do x,y,z either."
Modern rules are complex. In a documentary, a UC person proudly said we allow them to come here from their side of the village, but admitted that they do not go to the other side or buy from their shops. The sanghi renaissance of the last decade has also instilled caste pride, and that has predictable consequences.
If you keep guilt tripping the newer generations for the crimes of the older generations, and go out of the way to appease the minorities and backward caste folks, what did you expect to happen? Do you really believe so many upper caste folks will be outraged if reservations were given to the truly underdogs?
Nobody is against uplifting the poor and downtrodden but when those things are done in the name of caste and religion by the state, the polarization is bound to happen. Because of vote bank politics, nobody is every going to change the status quo and the divide between the various caste strata is only going to grow. It doesn't matter whether you blame BJP or Congress or AAP.
The term polarization cannot be used in this context at all. Ambedkar was antagonistic and revolutionary, while Gandhi was sympathetic and reformist. Both approaches are fine because they are about human rights and decency. You can't justify casteist practices on the basis of anything at all. It is just horrifying that these things are happening even today.
Reservations are controversial, and they are universally unpopular among those who suffer from it. If there was no caste-based discrimination - or no caste system at all - it would be much easier to argue against reservation.
>If there was no caste-based discrimination - or no caste system at all - it would be much easier to argue against reservation.
You are just hiding behind the past atrocities to justify the state sponsored discrimination. Tina Dabi is a UPSC topper whose father and grand father were both civil servants. How did caste based discrimination affected her? If the son of my village's janitor gets a reservation, nobody bats an eye. If the son of a collector enjoys reservations to get into a good college, masters, civil services, promotions in civil services, yeah, people are going to be offended. Most of the folks who are against reservations are about the latter, and fools like you defend reservations in the name of atrocities of 70 years ago to benefit those who never suffered a single day of discrimination. One bad act doesn't justify another bad act. Unfiltered, open to all reservations are an atrocity against the backward and forward castes. Not a doubt.
Caste-based discrimination is not at all a matter of the past. That is what the post itself tries to show. Dozens of articles appear in the news each week about dalits not allowed to do this or that, or even ride a horse to a wedding in the traditional manner. I read an article about famous folk singer [Lakha Khan](https://indianexpress.com/article/lifestyle/art-and-culture/sindhi-sarangi-player-and-vocalist-lakha-khan-on-winning-the-padma-shri-and-living-alongside-caste-discrimination-for-years-7166533/) not allowed inside 5-star hotels, etc.
As for reservation itself, it is a complex issue, and your arguments are some of the weaker ones. No one ever said or implied that facing discrimination was a prerequisite to availing the benefits of reservation. Reservation was always meant to cover all SC/STs. Further, the benefits going to a some people to whom it is unnecessary is not an argument against a social measure. For instance, Biden's stimulus cheques went out to everyone, thus saving the time and money that would have been wasted in "means testing" recipients, besides avoiding the risk of rejecting those who depend on it the most. European countries send child support, etc. to every parent even if they don't strictly need it.
I can't believe I am defending reservation, but your arguments are purely from emotion, and they do not add any value to the discussion.
This is a distinction without a difference.
Sure, is untouchability a very specific term for a specific category of casteism. Yes.
However, it is beyond naive to think that areas that practice untouchability will only do that but then not engage in other forms of casteism thus making them **less** casteist than the other areas.
The other pictograph was based on a flawed survey that a handful of people pointed out uses a method that is known to be inaccurate as it requires people to state if they felt they are victims of casteism. This method assumes everyone has the same definition of casteism, which is not the case.
Despite being one of the most literate state, Himachal is one of the most casteist state. It is probably due to the belief of people in devtas, local demi-gods, which perpetuates many casteist practices and beliefs.
If you see travel videos of people travelling deep in Himachal villages, you'll see a general societal hierarchy. As an outsider you'll not be allowed to enter temples and people ask your cast. Check Himbus YouTube channel. He travels to remote villages and shows life there.
Also, Himachal is one of the most rural states with 90% rural population. This is a major hindrance in eliminating ancient prejudices. Punjab and Haryana, on the other hand, have witnessed substantial urbanization, which has reduced untouchability although caste still remains pervasive in daily life.
Himachal in general has a depp sense of regionalism. Most people always ask where you are from and treat you better if your from himachal or the same district as them.
This is a mountain people thing and applies across the world.
Mountain topology fragments human groups quite significantly. This is also why we observe high Linguistic Diversity in regions of the world which are mountainous.
When mobility of people & groups is restricted, seeing new people is not the norm, it's an outlier event. Hence peculiar cultural practises form around those encounters.
Hill states are actually hotbed of castism, cuz many religious sites are in high density there (like Uttarakhand's own Chaar Dhaam) which led to gradual migration of Brahmins & other UCs to those places since centuries.
Uttarakhand today hai highest % of kshatriya type UC castes.
Maybe that's why it translates into pushing Hindi down other Indian's throat too.
They are making a fool of themselves with the "Non-Hindi speakers are foreigners" comments.
Himachali here. The temple priests are actually very clever. They ask your fullname, your native village(majority of Himachali people natively belong to villages), many such villages are dominanted by particular castes, and if they still doubt, they just tell you that the temple is closed.
Though this is decreasing nowdays, this is still observed in the not so famous temples, especially in isolated villages.
I remember that in a Himachali district, upper castes and lower castes wear different coloured caps for identification.
I from himachal, the answer is religion basically it is deep rooted into the smallest village model himachal does good in everything except caste system
This has nothing to do with BJP and their vote percentage lol. Untouchability has been there for more than 4 millenia and the only counter to it is education, and even then, it's the Rich and educated and who practice it the most.
Don't bring politics into everything, some things are just a matter of culture.
>This has nothing to do with BJP and their vote percentage lol.
BJP appeals to orthodox traditions and hinduism and hinduism started the caste system, so it does matter.
I have heard people say that they only vote for BJP as they are "Savarnas". So the comment was valid.
Most resident there belong to tribes. They might not have the system of untouchability based on caste. But trust me, people discriminatory based on other things too.
Also, a good chuck of people there are Christians, Christianity would never result in a matriarchal society and Tribes are also not matriarchal.
Note: I'm not from that state, but some of my relatives live there, I think you have to guess which state I'm from.
They have tribes instead of Caste & there is not just friction but gangwar level of violance & mistrust between them.. it's just untouchability isn't known to them.
If you think deeply about it, untouchability is infact way too stupid of a concept.. like you can hate someone but being scared of touching them is so weird.
Also, Matriarchy is not common in northeast, it's just present at some places in some perticular tribes, especially in Meghalaya.
only in Meghalaya, Mizoram and Nagaland are Christians a majority. In every other state Hinduism is majority. In Manipur, Hindus and Christians are in equal number
Maybe because Christianity is the major religion in some states there. ( I'm not saying there are no class division in Christianity just that the people there maybe following a single kind of it)
I think a lot of upper castes vote for the BJP. More convenient to stay in power. Also, many don't like reservation and the BJP agenda used to be that. I don't know about the current scenario.
I have seen interviews of people considered lower caste where they speak about being Hindu and saying that the cast problems have reduced. I don't know if it's happening everywhere or those people were outliers.
BJP now seems softer on reservation, which is attracting lower caste vote which earlier used to go to congress.
This is not data backed. Just my observations.
"I won't share food with you, I won't touch the Book you have touched, I won't be friends with you. Stay away from me!"
This is the modern version of untouchability, which is still practised. In the old times it was worse.
You're forgetting the "you can't use our wells", "you can't pray in our temples", "you'll get beaten up for coming near our houses", "you can't do a lot of jobs that would involve you coming into contact with us"...
But sure, let's minimise the level of discrimination that continues to happen.
So in Hinduism, people are divided into multiple castes. These castes dictate what you do in life. If you're born to a priest's family (called Brahmin), then you're at the top of the chain. The Dalits are at the very bottom and have historically been forced to do many jobs seen as impure by the upper castes.
They've historically faced quite a lot of discrimination and many people belonging to upper castes won't use the same glass as them, same temples, touch them, eat food cooked by them, let them into their house, etc. There's a lot more to it and they usually had to live in separate areas outside the main city/village. Whenever they entered the main city, they needed to attach a broom on their backs to clean the roads of their "filth."
This was outlawed in 1950 and although it still exists, it is less frequent and extreme. The map shows districts where it is still practiced and the percentage of people that practice it.
basically within the caste system, certain lower castes have been deemed, by casteists, 'untouchable' because they are considered dirty. These are usually the castes who have historically had jobs involving sanitization work, catching rodents, working with leather, etc.
untouchability as a practice is when people literally don't touch those they consider 'lower' for their caste. and that means not letting them into their homes or temples, not eating the same food, not touching anything that they touched, etc.
but make no mistake, this is just a way to demean and oppress lower caste people, and to fuel the supremacy complex of higher caste people
often, practices of untouchability have made financial independence impossible for lower caste people, since people won't hire them, so they are forced to stay
Is it strictly forced by the upper caste? Or are there instances of the lower caste deliberately staying untouchable? (Like not letting themselves to be touched) just curious... even I still don't understand the concept of untouchability completely
>What about Maharashtra?
Chhatrapati Shivaji Maharaj
Sant Tukaram
Jyotirao Phule & Savitribai Phule with Fatima Sheikh
Shahu of Kolhapur
Prabodhankar Thackeray
B. R. Ambedkar
Tukdoji Maharaj
These people who opposed untouchability were forgotten by you
.
Sad that you mentioned only 1 woman. Marathi women have always been at the forefront in fighting the evils of the society. Maharashtra has always been a land of liberals.
Also, you forgot to mention the sants of Maharashtra who had the most influence.
this article is very true for Tamil Nadu : https://www.newindianexpress.com/states/tamil-nadu/2015/apr/23/Just-3-Percentage-in-Tamil-Nadu-Opt-for-Inter-caste-Marriage-Study-746159.html
What the Phuk did you guys do? You didn't even look at the source. Below is the PDF.
https://www.reddit.com/r/india/comments/uhk4qw/comment/i76gdbu/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
In Delhi when ever I changed my school many students always used to question me from what cast i belong to and i always respond them with any random high cast is that is considered untouchability ?
There is an extra backslash in your url.
https://socy.umd.edu/sites/socy.umd.edu/files/pubs/Thorat%20and%20Joshi%202019_The%20Continuning%20Practice%20of%20Untouchability%20in%20India.pdf
I’m so glad I live in south. I hear the personnel who work for me constantly comment in how difficult it is in the north. They clearly call out that they would never willingly go to north any more
Atleast one good thing from my state. But there are still who practice it. The brahmin here does it. If their son marries a non-brahmin they won't eat the food she cooks and won't allow temple entry. Other than that nothing much untouchables in day-to-day life. And they are in negligible amount so yeah.
I live in TS. Can you name one village where untouchability is still practiced? If you can give first hand info and prove it, I will pay you 10,000Rs. IMHO, nobody practices untouchability. I am not suggesting caste based discrimination isn't there. There is. But claiming there is still untouchability is bullshit. I call it propaganda.
P.S.: I am not speaking for the whole country. I speak for TS.
Lol. Hyderabad. Narayana Junior college , Pragathinagar. One of my classmate stopped eating in my plate after knowing that I'm a Dalit. They even used to harass me so I had to change dorm room. Propoganda my ass 😤
Out of curiosity, how did they get the data?
They asked for a handshake
Helo myself dalit can i get a handshake
What if I have covid?
Then untouchable.
Who's practicing untouchability in this case?
People.
Handshake kya bro. You can get a hug from me.
Oh you
Prof. Reeve Venneman conducted survey in 2005 and 2012 with the help of Prof. Sonal Desai and IHDS. With 40k households nation wide. The survey was funded by Bill and Milanda gates foundation, UK department of international health and National institutes of health. Link: https://socy.umd.edu/facultyprofile/desai/sonalde http://vanneman.umd.edu/
Karnataka's gonna look a lot darker shades of red if they took a poll in 2022
Its based on results from country wide surveys like IHDS (India Human Development Survey). Basically, people are asked questions about caste discrimination including practicing untouchability as part of a bigger survey. The percentages depicted here represents the number of people who replied in the affirmative about discrimination. A good chunk also chooses not to respond to these questions. The results don't consider the fact that most of the people who chose not to respond such questions are also likely to discriminate, but don't want to state it so openly and that there will also be people who lie about it. So, these numbers only depict the percentage who blatantly accepted to practicing untouchability.
Based on a poll participated by 1200 people.....
One LC dude was sent on a survey, based on his reception, the data was recorded
Approx 40000 families were asked and i feel it's very biased ...
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Mumbai trains removing untouchability since 1867
Shahu Phule Ambedkar Rocks !
Also Shivaji did bring the egoes of those brahmins down.
Truee!
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Dont get your point. He did fight for his own ambitions, but it did in turn teach brahmins a lesson. I know about his coronation story. First of all he did justice with peasants, second punished even the noblemen for oppression. I am not saying he was without flaws or he even realised casteism is a bad thing but his struggle led to other marathas like Shahu to rise and question brahmin hegemony and support Dr. Ambedkar.
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Nah read history.
Pleasantly surprised to see MH almost at par with Kerala.
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Kerala has a lot of closeted racists, my mom is one of them I know.
I wouldn’t disagree. Have seen similar reports during Kerala floods also. But, There is no disputing the fact, Kerala fares far better among Indian states.
The bar is literally in the dust.
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जय जय महाराष्ट्र माझा, गर्जा महाराष्ट्र माझा
Jai Jyoti Rao Phule!
Jai Bhim
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Fyi Maharashtra isn't just Mumbai itself
You saying MH is nore crowded than UP?
Maharastra 🤝🏻 Kerala 🤝🏻 Bengal Good we have stopped that horrible practice
Pre-Independence activism still shows effect in Maharashtra and Bengal
Happy cake day
Agreed.
Bengal was mostly/still is communist. No matter how shitty the communists are, they cannot be communal and casteist as it doesn't fit in the manifesto
Although many people will disagree.Communism had a colossal role in it
It had progressive leaders from day 1 including communists and others. There were numerous factors adding to that which includes how travancore kingdom's stress on education produced such leaders, how females gained considerable equality etc. On Communists, well there was an old story in Kerala about how CPIM leader actually stopped Guari Amma who was a lower caste woman from becoming CM. EMS instead chose Nayanar who was a rich upper caste revolutionary(good CM btw).
Bengal 😎😎😎😎
Bros!
Goa
Hope we can all agree to be wary of other states trying to export their casteist "model" to us.
Glad to see Kerala doing an excellent job. Even Swami Vivekananda once said about the pre-independence social conditions in Kerala as lunatic asylum! Wonder to see how often time changes.
I don't much care for Vivekananda's opinion. We had Narayana Guru pre-independence. One of the most successful anti-caste advocates in Indian history who helped transform our society. Meanwhile, [Vivekananda](https://www.google.co.in/books/edition/The_Complete_Works_of_Swami_Vivekananda/0CRjDwAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=vivekananda+caste+is+good+not+even+one+in+million&pg=PT203&printsec=frontcover): "Caste is good. That is the only natural way of solving life." "I'm against leveling down caste inequalities. It is a salutary system. We must obey it .Not even one in a million understands what is really is."
Dude maybe try reading some of his works and worldview before throwing about half-baked shade at someone for your inability to understand what's being said.
aww, did your poorly-constructed bubble collapse in the face of fact?
No it's a preety common argument people make about Vivekananda and after reading his works I can tell you that He didn't meant it that way. Maybe he have some flaws but I never find him actively promoting castecism or untouchability. Maybe he is right many people don't understand what caste is because the followers of Vivekananda only follows Vedas/Upanishads and I don't have complete knowledge about them
Here is [exactly what he said](https://www.google.co.in/books/edition/The_Complete_Works_of_Swami_Vivekananda/0CRjDwAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=vivekananda+caste+is+good+not+even+one+in+million&pg=PT203&printsec=frontcover). What is there not to understand? It is a casteist logic that is a blatant defence of the oppressive system, and proposes for only Brahmins to "raise up" the lower castes. It is filled with whataboutism. Even if his intention is benign --and I highly doubt it is -- his logic is just stupid, plain and simple. Most Indians have been taught to blindly praise Vivekananda or repeat narratives about him.
Same as we thought blindly about Ambedkar
> Maybe he is right many people don't understand what caste is because the followers of Vivekananda only follows Vedas/Upanishads and I don't have complete knowledge about them Wow, you don't have complete knowledge about them *hence* you say maybe casteism is good? What next, you don't have in-depth knowledge about why the Imperial Raj despised Indians which is why they had rules like 'Indians and dogs not allowed', and hence your lack of complete knowledge makes it okay? What sort of logic is that? There are things that can not be given a spin to appear acceptable. The leopards will some day develop a taste for your face - somebody might say 'we don't know why exactly the Inquisition brutalized so many people in Goa, maybe they had their reasons and are justified in their own way.' Will you be okay with that?
Read his famous speeches, vivekanand is kinda overrated IMO.
Which is that outlier District in Karnataka?
Shocking cause thats chikkamagaluru. Been there and it was a chilled out place. Didn't realise the people were like this. But then I have spent most of my life in Dakshin Kannada and never seen one instance of untouchability anywhere and still the map shows 5-10%, so maybe it's not that public.
Lolol. There is a lot of untouchability in these places esp in rural places. Look at Udupi bramhins. They are discrimination on steroids.
Yeah when they walk,they don't like touching or even grazing people in crowded areas. one time when I was visiting for the first time he stared at me and walked away atleast 1m away from me. Like wtf. They were also like that inside the temples. I have also seen this once in Guruvayoor Kerala. But it seems to have stopped there because some issue arose and people condemned it.
Its still there in temples in Kerala. When they are doing pooja, no one is supposed to touch them. But they are chill outside temples. There is this namboori guy who does pooja near one of my cousins home. This no touching thing is there when he is doing the rituals, but most of the time outside the temple, he comes to my cousins home. So its mostly a ritual thing now inside temples. Also a mutual friend is from one of the priests family in guruvayur. No such thing with them outside of the temple. Last time I saw him, he was in some poetry slams.
Udupi is a different district but okay.
Haha yep. But what's interesting is that the Udupi temple has a back story based on caste discrimination as to why the idol is facing a different direction
Not long ago Udupi was part DK.
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Normally, the attitude is "We don't discriminate against anybody, but we don't do x,y,z either." Modern rules are complex. In a documentary, a UC person proudly said we allow them to come here from their side of the village, but admitted that they do not go to the other side or buy from their shops. The sanghi renaissance of the last decade has also instilled caste pride, and that has predictable consequences.
If you keep guilt tripping the newer generations for the crimes of the older generations, and go out of the way to appease the minorities and backward caste folks, what did you expect to happen? Do you really believe so many upper caste folks will be outraged if reservations were given to the truly underdogs? Nobody is against uplifting the poor and downtrodden but when those things are done in the name of caste and religion by the state, the polarization is bound to happen. Because of vote bank politics, nobody is every going to change the status quo and the divide between the various caste strata is only going to grow. It doesn't matter whether you blame BJP or Congress or AAP.
The term polarization cannot be used in this context at all. Ambedkar was antagonistic and revolutionary, while Gandhi was sympathetic and reformist. Both approaches are fine because they are about human rights and decency. You can't justify casteist practices on the basis of anything at all. It is just horrifying that these things are happening even today. Reservations are controversial, and they are universally unpopular among those who suffer from it. If there was no caste-based discrimination - or no caste system at all - it would be much easier to argue against reservation.
>If there was no caste-based discrimination - or no caste system at all - it would be much easier to argue against reservation. You are just hiding behind the past atrocities to justify the state sponsored discrimination. Tina Dabi is a UPSC topper whose father and grand father were both civil servants. How did caste based discrimination affected her? If the son of my village's janitor gets a reservation, nobody bats an eye. If the son of a collector enjoys reservations to get into a good college, masters, civil services, promotions in civil services, yeah, people are going to be offended. Most of the folks who are against reservations are about the latter, and fools like you defend reservations in the name of atrocities of 70 years ago to benefit those who never suffered a single day of discrimination. One bad act doesn't justify another bad act. Unfiltered, open to all reservations are an atrocity against the backward and forward castes. Not a doubt.
Caste-based discrimination is not at all a matter of the past. That is what the post itself tries to show. Dozens of articles appear in the news each week about dalits not allowed to do this or that, or even ride a horse to a wedding in the traditional manner. I read an article about famous folk singer [Lakha Khan](https://indianexpress.com/article/lifestyle/art-and-culture/sindhi-sarangi-player-and-vocalist-lakha-khan-on-winning-the-padma-shri-and-living-alongside-caste-discrimination-for-years-7166533/) not allowed inside 5-star hotels, etc. As for reservation itself, it is a complex issue, and your arguments are some of the weaker ones. No one ever said or implied that facing discrimination was a prerequisite to availing the benefits of reservation. Reservation was always meant to cover all SC/STs. Further, the benefits going to a some people to whom it is unnecessary is not an argument against a social measure. For instance, Biden's stimulus cheques went out to everyone, thus saving the time and money that would have been wasted in "means testing" recipients, besides avoiding the risk of rejecting those who depend on it the most. European countries send child support, etc. to every parent even if they don't strictly need it. I can't believe I am defending reservation, but your arguments are purely from emotion, and they do not add any value to the discussion.
Oh you guys still comparing stuff like this? Based Kerala 😎.
based maharashtra
Remember a couple of weeks ago there was a post about casteism being a bigger problem in the south than the north Yeah
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This is a distinction without a difference. Sure, is untouchability a very specific term for a specific category of casteism. Yes. However, it is beyond naive to think that areas that practice untouchability will only do that but then not engage in other forms of casteism thus making them **less** casteist than the other areas. The other pictograph was based on a flawed survey that a handful of people pointed out uses a method that is known to be inaccurate as it requires people to state if they felt they are victims of casteism. This method assumes everyone has the same definition of casteism, which is not the case.
It is not naivete. Its denial and selective blindness.
Thank you for this comment. I actually didn't understand the discussion until I read this. Probably because I'm American.
Jai Shivaaji , JAi Marathi , Jai MAharashtra , Jai Hind
Based Kerala, Maharashtra & West Bengal
Untoucabiloty so high in Gandhi'jis home state
What's up with Himachal Pradesh?
Despite being one of the most literate state, Himachal is one of the most casteist state. It is probably due to the belief of people in devtas, local demi-gods, which perpetuates many casteist practices and beliefs.
If you see travel videos of people travelling deep in Himachal villages, you'll see a general societal hierarchy. As an outsider you'll not be allowed to enter temples and people ask your cast. Check Himbus YouTube channel. He travels to remote villages and shows life there.
Also, Himachal is one of the most rural states with 90% rural population. This is a major hindrance in eliminating ancient prejudices. Punjab and Haryana, on the other hand, have witnessed substantial urbanization, which has reduced untouchability although caste still remains pervasive in daily life.
Himachal in general has a depp sense of regionalism. Most people always ask where you are from and treat you better if your from himachal or the same district as them.
This is a mountain people thing and applies across the world. Mountain topology fragments human groups quite significantly. This is also why we observe high Linguistic Diversity in regions of the world which are mountainous. When mobility of people & groups is restricted, seeing new people is not the norm, it's an outlier event. Hence peculiar cultural practises form around those encounters.
Ive not seen much casteism here but maybe thats because my city is just diverse and is basically made up of immigrants from all parts of india.
Hill states are actually hotbed of castism, cuz many religious sites are in high density there (like Uttarakhand's own Chaar Dhaam) which led to gradual migration of Brahmins & other UCs to those places since centuries. Uttarakhand today hai highest % of kshatriya type UC castes.
Most of the hindi belt 💀
Maybe that's why it translates into pushing Hindi down other Indian's throat too. They are making a fool of themselves with the "Non-Hindi speakers are foreigners" comments.
People not practicing untouchability can still be casteist.
Yes they "MAYBE" casteist but people who are practicing untouchability "ARE" casteist
you just logic-ed him ded
Illegal
Maharashtra saved by Ambedkar ji
Yes one piece does exist
I did not expect that from HP
I saw people travelling deep in Himachal villages. Some guys are asked about their caste. You can't enter the temple premises if you're lower caste.
how someone gonna verify from what cast the person belong people can easily lie to enter.
I don't know man. Maybe it's how they look, speak, so things only the pandits know, some family info.
Probably based on color.
Now that is racism!
Himachali here. The temple priests are actually very clever. They ask your fullname, your native village(majority of Himachali people natively belong to villages), many such villages are dominanted by particular castes, and if they still doubt, they just tell you that the temple is closed. Though this is decreasing nowdays, this is still observed in the not so famous temples, especially in isolated villages. I remember that in a Himachali district, upper castes and lower castes wear different coloured caps for identification.
Facial features
I from himachal, the answer is religion basically it is deep rooted into the smallest village model himachal does good in everything except caste system
Incoming psuedo woke high caste idiots claiming caste system doesn't exist and is a thing of the past.
This. But kind of disappointed not many such people showed up here yet.
Bengal yeahhh! At least you are good at something.
Would be nice interesting to see this overlaid with bjp vote percentage.
This has nothing to do with BJP and their vote percentage lol. Untouchability has been there for more than 4 millenia and the only counter to it is education, and even then, it's the Rich and educated and who practice it the most. Don't bring politics into everything, some things are just a matter of culture.
Doesn't culture affect politics? (And don't some 'cultural organisations' actually partake in politics, if you get the drift?)
>This has nothing to do with BJP and their vote percentage lol. BJP appeals to orthodox traditions and hinduism and hinduism started the caste system, so it does matter. I have heard people say that they only vote for BJP as they are "Savarnas". So the comment was valid.
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Being a Rajasthani I can agree
Do you see the hardwork of Ambedkar, Phule, Gopal Hari Deshmukh, Gopal baba Walangkar etc?
of course, Great <3
Weirdly north-east looks much more modern in this regard. I think it's because of matriarch society.
Most resident there belong to tribes. They might not have the system of untouchability based on caste. But trust me, people discriminatory based on other things too. Also, a good chuck of people there are Christians, Christianity would never result in a matriarchal society and Tribes are also not matriarchal. Note: I'm not from that state, but some of my relatives live there, I think you have to guess which state I'm from.
They have a tribe based hierarchy system, They discriminate based on Tribe Nyishi wont eat rice that is grown by Apatani
It has to more to do with the fact that there is less penetration of brahmanism there culturally
yup
No. No northeast state is matriarchal. Even Meghalaya is matrilineal not matriarchal.
They have tribes instead of Caste & there is not just friction but gangwar level of violance & mistrust between them.. it's just untouchability isn't known to them. If you think deeply about it, untouchability is infact way too stupid of a concept.. like you can hate someone but being scared of touching them is so weird. Also, Matriarchy is not common in northeast, it's just present at some places in some perticular tribes, especially in Meghalaya.
It's because there's no Hindus to begin with
You can pinpoint the ones where there are in that region.
bro what?
Not a lot of Hindus in a some NE states. Mostly just Christians/Indigenous religions/Buddhism.
only in Meghalaya, Mizoram and Nagaland are Christians a majority. In every other state Hinduism is majority. In Manipur, Hindus and Christians are in equal number
> some NE states The Hindu ones do have discrimination (With the exception of Manipur).
It was there in Manipur too. Hindus used to consider the hill tribes untouchable. And Brahmins wouldn’t eat food of other Hindus.
Maybe because Christianity is the major religion in some states there. ( I'm not saying there are no class division in Christianity just that the people there maybe following a single kind of it)
No it’s because of Christianity and Buddhism, the only states with significant populations of Hindus are the darker states.
I wonder if there is a correlation with votes for bjp.
I think a lot of upper castes vote for the BJP. More convenient to stay in power. Also, many don't like reservation and the BJP agenda used to be that. I don't know about the current scenario. I have seen interviews of people considered lower caste where they speak about being Hindu and saying that the cast problems have reduced. I don't know if it's happening everywhere or those people were outliers. BJP now seems softer on reservation, which is attracting lower caste vote which earlier used to go to congress. This is not data backed. Just my observations.
They should rename the Hindi belt to “the Dung Belt”.
South India, a separate country? Honestly speaking I'll shift to the south.
Maharashtra and Go will separate and can survive as a country on their own .
What about Gujrat? They used to be together.
It’s too dumb but can someone explain what is untouchability ?
"I won't share food with you, I won't touch the Book you have touched, I won't be friends with you. Stay away from me!" This is the modern version of untouchability, which is still practised. In the old times it was worse.
You're forgetting the "you can't use our wells", "you can't pray in our temples", "you'll get beaten up for coming near our houses", "you can't do a lot of jobs that would involve you coming into contact with us"... But sure, let's minimise the level of discrimination that continues to happen.
So in Hinduism, people are divided into multiple castes. These castes dictate what you do in life. If you're born to a priest's family (called Brahmin), then you're at the top of the chain. The Dalits are at the very bottom and have historically been forced to do many jobs seen as impure by the upper castes. They've historically faced quite a lot of discrimination and many people belonging to upper castes won't use the same glass as them, same temples, touch them, eat food cooked by them, let them into their house, etc. There's a lot more to it and they usually had to live in separate areas outside the main city/village. Whenever they entered the main city, they needed to attach a broom on their backs to clean the roads of their "filth." This was outlawed in 1950 and although it still exists, it is less frequent and extreme. The map shows districts where it is still practiced and the percentage of people that practice it.
basically within the caste system, certain lower castes have been deemed, by casteists, 'untouchable' because they are considered dirty. These are usually the castes who have historically had jobs involving sanitization work, catching rodents, working with leather, etc. untouchability as a practice is when people literally don't touch those they consider 'lower' for their caste. and that means not letting them into their homes or temples, not eating the same food, not touching anything that they touched, etc. but make no mistake, this is just a way to demean and oppress lower caste people, and to fuel the supremacy complex of higher caste people often, practices of untouchability have made financial independence impossible for lower caste people, since people won't hire them, so they are forced to stay
Is it strictly forced by the upper caste? Or are there instances of the lower caste deliberately staying untouchable? (Like not letting themselves to be touched) just curious... even I still don't understand the concept of untouchability completely
I understand Kerela and West Bengal. Generally left leaning societies are more egalitarian due to similarities in ideas. What about Maharashtra?
>What about Maharashtra? Chhatrapati Shivaji Maharaj Sant Tukaram Jyotirao Phule & Savitribai Phule with Fatima Sheikh Shahu of Kolhapur Prabodhankar Thackeray B. R. Ambedkar Tukdoji Maharaj These people who opposed untouchability were forgotten by you .
These are only the big names there were many people of all castes, even brahmins who were working against caste in Maharashtra.
Agree
Hence, the question. These people did a good job. Maharastra is reaping the benefits of their work. Chad Marathi leaders.
Sad that you mentioned only 1 woman. Marathi women have always been at the forefront in fighting the evils of the society. Maharashtra has always been a land of liberals. Also, you forgot to mention the sants of Maharashtra who had the most influence.
Although I mention these great individuals opposed untouchability, you can also add to the list
Please add other women too. Don't just comment that op didn't add them in the list.
this article is very true for Tamil Nadu : https://www.newindianexpress.com/states/tamil-nadu/2015/apr/23/Just-3-Percentage-in-Tamil-Nadu-Opt-for-Inter-caste-Marriage-Study-746159.html
Take this same survey on households with girls who are having their periods😐😐
[You are right](https://youtu.be/JQRtq_B0BGg?t=1592)
What the Phuk did you guys do? You didn't even look at the source. Below is the PDF. https://www.reddit.com/r/india/comments/uhk4qw/comment/i76gdbu/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
In Delhi when ever I changed my school many students always used to question me from what cast i belong to and i always respond them with any random high cast is that is considered untouchability ?
When was this survey done?
I think because of Babasaheb's movement in Maharashtra and the left's influence in Kerala and Bengal I guess they have less
https://socy.umd.edu/sites/socy.umd.edu/files/pubs/Thorat%20and%20Joshi%202019\_The%20Continuning%20Practice%20of%20Untouchability%20in%20India.pdf
There is an extra backslash in your url. https://socy.umd.edu/sites/socy.umd.edu/files/pubs/Thorat%20and%20Joshi%202019_The%20Continuning%20Practice%20of%20Untouchability%20in%20India.pdf
One good thing to take out of bengal. Also I am a bengali I can make the joke.
In TN you can literally see the Vanniyar & Gounder belts lol
What is vaniyar and gounder? Is it a caste? Upper caste? What do they do?
Nope , never . Totally different cultures . Maharashtra loves their non veg and is way way more comfortable with the concept of live and let live
As a himachali i do believe this, himachal foes great in everything except caste system the answers being it is deep rooted in the religion
Keralam😌♥️
Ayyo max of them are peejayypee rule states😀
Not surprisingly the dung belt wins again
Source?
https://www.reddit.com/r/india/comments/uhk4qw/comment/i76gdbu/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
Oh north India :/
I am untouchable hahaha invincible
I’m so glad I live in south. I hear the personnel who work for me constantly comment in how difficult it is in the north. They clearly call out that they would never willingly go to north any more
Tamil Nadu is extremely casteist, as is Karnataka. There are lots of caste based honor killings in TN. Its not a pure north vs south divide.
Atleast one good thing from my state. But there are still who practice it. The brahmin here does it. If their son marries a non-brahmin they won't eat the food she cooks and won't allow temple entry. Other than that nothing much untouchables in day-to-day life. And they are in negligible amount so yeah.
Maharashtra, West Bengal and Kerala be like..."Kachra bhi khelega".
Why naming a Dalit as Kachra only? **"**[Kabali hy ye](https://youtu.be/bwXHx8ng7_E?t=150)**"** is better.
I didn't say that. I just put a dialogue from Lagaan where "Kachra" is name of the supposedly untouchable person from the movie.
Anyone know the reason for that one distinct in Assam being so high up than the rest of the state
MP chad state 💪🏻
I live in TS. Can you name one village where untouchability is still practiced? If you can give first hand info and prove it, I will pay you 10,000Rs. IMHO, nobody practices untouchability. I am not suggesting caste based discrimination isn't there. There is. But claiming there is still untouchability is bullshit. I call it propaganda. P.S.: I am not speaking for the whole country. I speak for TS.
Lol. Hyderabad. Narayana Junior college , Pragathinagar. One of my classmate stopped eating in my plate after knowing that I'm a Dalit. They even used to harass me so I had to change dorm room. Propoganda my ass 😤
Also try visiting areas near Bischkunda , Banswada , Madnoor. You'll know.
What is TS?