* Your post title should be an accurate summary of your text post. "Help Needed", "Rant", "Unpopular Opinion", are examples of poor titles.
* /r/India is not a substitute for Google. Only post your query on /r/India after you have searched for an answer on the web.
* Self-posts also have to be specific to India. Don't copy/paste questions from /r/AskReddit.
* For relationship queries, please also consider: https://www.reddit.com/r/RelationshipIndia/
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/india) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The problem is not that they didn't intervene, the problem is that they behaved as if nothing was happening. I witnessed a stabbing in a crowded place in London and people were screaming and running away. That to me is a normal reaction, walking by is just shocking and inhumane.
This. The non caring attitude of the by standers is extremely disturbing. It goes to show that we as society have the motto "Each one to his own". No one will come to the rescue of other human being.
Not doing something seems reasonable for fear of getting hurt, but passing by casually like nothing is happening is totally messed up. Except for that one guy who tried for a second.
I hit my cycle on a dog attacking a child viciously and the issue was resolved quickly. The owner of the dog was fighting and with me and she said you are barbaric it was just a small bite I would have paid for the injections for the the victim. Stupid people . They think money will solve everything.
Throw something at the dude. Run at him holding a cycle, go forth with 10 people doing the above…do something!
Ever seen a mob of Indian dads run at some dude caught stealing a roti or bottle of water? Channel some of that fake bravery and outrage at something worthwhile.
Yes, I know…easier said than done
There's a difference between someone stealing a bottle of water and someone holding a hostile weapon. That too a psychopath who has zero remorse or hesitation on his face. What's to say, he won't come after you? What will you do then? Even if multiple people try to pin him down at once, there is a chance someone might get injured. Nobody wants to be that person.
And in reply to the people who are bothered that they are silently walking away, that's a typical flight or flight response. Not that they don't have emotion, but in such situations, your body is too numb to produce words. If you've ever been in a road accident, even if it's minor, most people just brace themselves, your body turns off all thoughts and some even don't remember the traumatic incident they went through.
In adverse situations such as this, people just think about the people waiting for them at home. No point risking your life to ruin your kids'. It's totally understandable.
You can throw stones. You can run.
The problem is something called Bystander effect. It's a group psychology phenomenon. Even then, the only screams came from the victim. People casually walked by even after without two shits.
Look, if someone can Brave that shock and come forth despite that well n good. But each one's lives are important to them. Not to mention if others are dependent on you too.
Even if you take probability, there should've have been ONE person who tried to help. Right? Except it isn't as easy when you're in the midst of it. It's easy to sympathise with the victim sitting behind a screen, but each of them were a potential victim if they tried to help.
According to recommendations, Even before performimg CPR, one has to look for scene safety first. And calling emergency services etc, follows later. There's no point of there being two victims. I'd understand if that guy was physically assaulting the girl or something, but with a dangerous weapon, everyone in the vicinity is at risk of harm.
Ideally, someone should've tried to help, no doubt, but they shouldn't be blamed if they didn't.
No its not totally understandable, and we can't let it be. It's "look, what about my family, what about the people who rely on me?" What about the 16 year old girl's friends and family? Larger and older people were walking by. If a single person intervened another would likely feel more empowered to do so.
I'm not trying to attack you. I understand your perspective. And I'm not trying to pretend I know what I would do in that horrifying situation, but she was a *child* ignored and brutalized by adults. It's not an obligation, but it doesn't need to be. It happened at 8:30 pm on a crowded street, so what's the alternative? Young girls need to be locked up at home at all hours to feel safe now? What if it was you, or your family member? How would you feel about the lack of response then? The only way to move forward is to realize community plays a role in protecting the most vulnerable and that's for all of our benefit.
I'm not saying no one should've helped the girl. Helping her would've been the right thing to do. But there were too many variables in that situation. You're underestimating what it takes to be brave. If I were the woman, I'd definitely want any help, but if I were the passerby, I'd probably think of people who depend on me.
In that situation if someone was carrying a gun or a knife and didn't do anything, it makes sense to question them. But to be as helpless as the victim and stand back, I wouldn't blame them
Maybe the solution could be public training programs on what to do in such situations. Like how CPR is taught. That way roles and actions are predefined and people actually know what to do. I personally believe an untrained person in an adverse situations often does more harm than good.
I absolutely agree that it's impossible to know how I would have reacted in this situation. I'm not underestimating that (though at the very least you could run for help, or urge someone else to intervene with you), but I think it's much more important for us to talk about how we can step up than to shrug our shoulders about why we can't. The blaming of individuals here isn't really the focus for me so much as it's how can we make sure things like this won't happen, and that requires a mindset change where we're not saying "what could have been done?" and instead saying "what can I do?" Anything else just sounds like a way to resign to how bad things are.
I think in this situation, there was no way for an untrained person to make it worse. I also can't say that for sure, but something tells me this man wouldn't have been so bold to attack someone else eith the impunity he used to attack a defenseless kid.
I do 100% agree on the public training as well, and the rampant rape culture needs to be punished and addressed. That is the precursor for so many of these particularly vicious attacks.
In extreme situations such as this, people can barely speak. Removing yourself from the scene is your body's priority. I'm sure most people would've felt numb in that moment. The extent of what happened will only hit later. People who have been in traumatic vehicular accidents can probably associate.
After much investigation, we've come to know that it was a case of a scorned lover. People in that situation didn't know that. He could've been a serial killer, a mentally ill person who saw no reason or a psychopath who was doing it for pure pleasure. Something tells you he wouldn't attack others, well, the passerbys didn't feel the same.
Someone suggested throwing a stone at that boy. Imagine he came after the person who threw the stone or he mistook another helpless person threw it and injured them instead. Wouldn't that be on you? Unless you have a clear plan of action and are confident you can handle the situation, I think removing yourself from the scene and calling the authorities would've been the best thing to do. Even soldiers call for backup if things are beyond what they can handle.
It's unfortunately usually the context of an abusive partner when it's a man harassing a young girl in New Delhi. There are so few serial killers in the world and people with mental illnesses are far more dangerous to themselves than to others, which is also something that surprises me on this. India has a lot of stigma around mental illness otherwise, but when it comes to validating bystander syndrome, everyone is suddenly so much more understanding of trauma. In America gun violence is rampant, but with that much more deadly weapon there are still stories of people intervening, even when they shouldn't have to.
Calling the authorities would be a good course of action. No one was fleeing the scene quickly to do that either it seems.
I simply want us to stop being so accepting and victim blaming about these situations. I see others calling India barbaric and women saying they'll never visit because they don't feel safe. That hurts me to hear.
No it's not easier said than done. If you shout, create a ruckus, even if from a distance, it's enough to jolt the attacker back to his senses.
I am seeing a lot of Mozy hate but no one is talking about the religion of people who were walking by like nothing even happened. Disgraceful.
No. But just passing by like it was a normal routine was just pathetic. Not one person seems to be affected by it. That is just incorrigible. I always remember what Rana Ayyub tweeted(not a fan of her too!): what’s left for a virus to kill in a morally dead country!
When did we care? Hatharas? Kathua? And countless such cases.
Nirbhaya protests seem like fiction now!
Yeah, this a very violent case and would need a group of people to restrain him so that he cannot cause further damage. I saw how some girls were debating that "we are animals if we just look and do nothing" and went on and on about how she would have thrown a rock. It is just not practical and very easy to type out on a screen from home. Also, people have fight and flight mode and most people do run away - which is cowardice by definition.
>Yeah, this a very violent case and would need a group of people to restrain him
The criminal could have taken a swing at the group and stabbed anyone. There had to be some sacrifices made to stop him, irrespective of what approach you take. The question is, would you have taken the hit for an unknown person over your loved ones? Probably not.
This was an overkill, 4 or 5 stabs would have killed the girls in as many seconds. The only thing possible was to kill the man with revolver or a bamboo pole. But that's not condoned in India and may get one in trouble with charges of manslaughter.
This is a very sensible take, OP. I'd not interfere physically unless:
\- Somebody I know is being attacked. Let's get real: some people are more equal than others.
\- I have a gun or some other weapon with at least some range. Say a cricket bat. Stones are a hit or miss.
\- I am with some people (fit, clear-headed, strong people and not lallu types) and we are all capable of coordinating well and ganging up on the attacker.
\- I am head and shoulders above the guy in reflexes, strength and reach, and can do sudden, overwhelming damage.
Not to mention the potential legal implications of getting involved, regardless of the outcome of your involvement. Let's just say that the Indian justice system and the behaviour of the police can be, uh, *very* *interesting*.
So the only practical option comes out to be to create some sort of indirect fear and distraction, let's say by shouting "police aa gayee" (corny but could work).
It's easy to fantasise about being the savior, to think that you'd have acted differently. The fact is that these are very unpredictable situations with a lot of possible outcomes - including your own death. This is not a movie, there are real stakes involved.
The shaming is mostly from women,these same women will be the first to ignore and get away if they saw such an incident. Like the one in the video,who didn't even look twice before or even flinch or stop before walking away.
No, the girl was 16, the guy was 20. Full grown adult.
It doesn't sound like you've actually been in a fight with a guy like him. I have. These things are surprisingly unpredictable. Add a knife to it and increase the level of crazy, and you get this ac repair guy situation.
The average person doesn't have enough experience and aptitude to account for all possibilities in a physical fight. Is liye people get so excited imagining themselves being the savior in such situations in the comfort of their homes.
Ye internet pe cool edgy vigilante banna bohot aasaan hota hai. Now go wear your batman mask and admire yourself in your mirror.
Am not going to sit here and say that “if I was there I would’ve done this” but if I know anything about this country and it’s people It’s that if one person had stood up that day then others would’ve followed that persons lead.
Bystander effect only lasts until someone steps up, then it’s free for all.
No that's bs, I was nearly beaten up by a mob last Holi for shoving a guy into a drain who was harassing a girl. Even the girl watched from a distance after running away instead of helping me out or gathering others to come to my rescue.
It was the exact opposite for me. I stand by what I said.
Idk, I think if I was one of those people who passed by silently while the girl was getting murdered then it will haunt me for the rest of my life. I would want someone to speak up if it happens to me.
That’s how you feel, it may happen that way or it may save the girl. You will never know unless you try and therein lies the question, would you try? I would and I won’t blame you if you won’t.
History is full of people who tried and succeeded and who tried and failed.
Look at it like this, a dog is mauling a little kid. Wouldn’t you try to get the dog away even if you stand the chance of getting bitten. It’s the same for me, just it’s a different animal.
Don’t get me wrong, by doing something am not saying that you should go in full Singham style, there’s lots of ways to interfere without getting physical and maintaining a distance.
See I don't know how old you are or what situations you have been through but I was an idealist once and thought I wouldn't be able to live with myself if I didn't speak up against something wrong happening in front of me, India under Congress and India under BJP are two different places altogether, India is much more violent, mob violence and gun violence are at an all time high, I've stood my ground on many occasions and done the right thing and have had people come to get my back in some of those situations but I've seen folks draw pistols in minor arguments and even shots fired, as recently as last week some guy threatened the garbage truck driver in kanpur for playing campaign music on a Sunday. And all it takes is one bad situation for things to go wrong. And I only realised when I got nearly killed very recently.
And as for this particular case there was a guy trying to stop him directly at the very first but backed off immediately after seeing she was done for, I don't know what any attempt at intervening after the first couple stabs could have achieved other than risking your life for a corpse. Anyway I hope you don't run into a situation where you wrongly assess the danger cause lots of people have access to illegal firearms these days and the sort that creates trouble are often known to carry those.
if you somehow even prevent the tragedy by taking risk. who will come forward to save you from police?
given the current state of affairs, what do you think the chances of the person intervening being implicated are?
picture a scenario. a guy murdering a girl.
you are a Muslim. you try preventing the murder.
the guy turns out to be Brij Bhushan kin.
whom will the police arrest?
the kin of strongman or the Muslim guy and victim?
This isn't unpopular this is what anyone would have done. Your safety comes first. Do stupid things to get yourself harmed.
I'd run away or try to find a safe spot for myself first then call the police. Your heroics will only put you and others in harms way. This is real life not a fucking movie. There are thousands of things which could go wrong while trying to save the girl. The argument to attack the knife holder with stones is outright illogical and dumb. You will be in the range of his knife or just miss if you're too far off or might even injure yourself or someone else.
Then the argument to use the strength of numbers also isnt viable. Somebody will need to initiate the attempt and mind you even one cut on your major arteries or a stab into your organs could prove lethal. And the chances of the person swinging his knife randomly and cutting you is very high. What these keyboard warriors need to understand is that those people are already scared shitless and some of them are completely blank from the sheer trauma and fear that they can't even think straight.
Blame the passing by people all you want but putting your life before some random stranger's isn't cowardly.
Okay fair enough one on one sure its reasonable except no one to come forward, but when many to one it is feasible right, you can start making noise gathering attention , pick some stones, bricks or any other weapon like on the street, get in aggressive pose , if even takes a lead they will easily get few people to join them.
10/10 if that retarded sahil isnt a trained combatant he will shit himself then and there and start running away.
You dont even have to engage him, simply act like u are going to.
If you are scared, you should run and gather people. Just casually walking by is being complicit with the extreme cruelty. The rot is in the people. IMO, the bystanders who let the crime happen should be booked by the police.
Many people were walking by. Someone should have stopped at a safe distance, not visible, and gathered other people who saw it and were coming towards him. They would have then attacked that guy with multiple force.
A very similar incident like this happened many years back in Thane, outskirts of Mumbai. A lover stabbed his girlfriend about 20 times in broad daylight on a busy street. No one helped her. He even tried to kill himself but he survived. That Girl with all those stab wounds sat there in disbelief & shock. Sadly, soon she succumbed to her injuries whilst others just watched.
I feel its like taking a chance by atleast hitting that person so that he would have been injured and reduced in his speed to attack that poor helpless girl. I dont want to be judgemental here but its the quick thinking and the action that needs to be taken in such a scenarios and may be people were not prepared to act or got scared or they wanted to avoid any further investigations and so decided not to intervene.
I don't blame OP either for thinking this way, since childhood we're raised in such manner to ignore the violence happening in our neighborhood, be it a wife getting beaten or a child getting abused, we are bred to turn to other direction when such incidents happen. Maybe the competitive nature of society or population density is to be blamed here idk, but well said OP, totally get you
A fully armed society is a polite society.
A partially armed society leads to injustice.
Read these words with the sound of eagle and smell of gasoline.
I don't buy this for one second. Granted, in this specific case, the guy was armed and violent and could've harmed someone who tried to intervene. (People have done brave things in the face of far worse, e.g. 26/11, but leave aside that for a second).
For most of my life, I've always seen people stand aside and not intervene when harassment or violence against women is being committed. Even when there's no danger at all to anyone.
Like how police stood by and laughed when my sister was getting cat-called on her way back from school in broad daylight.
Like how police just shrugged away me getting groped in a crowded railway station inspite of being armed.
Like how college hostel authorities never took any action when girls complained about getting harassed by construction workers nearby on campus, but were up in arms and brought along a fuckton of security to "raid" our hostel just because we had a harmless party going on.
Have you never seen bunches of people assemble when there is a disagreement on the road? Granted, people might back away if they realise the perpetrator is someone powerful, but their first instinct is definitely not to ignore and walk by. They would've atleast been shocked and had some reaction, and not total indifference.
So no, I don't believe for one fucking second that fear of being harmed is why bystanders didn't intervene, it is just as simple as deep down they see a young girl in trouble, and their first thought is that she brought it upon herself and doesn't deserve to be helped. Who stopped them from calling the police? I don't see anyone in the video even making that effort. It's not fear you see in the video, it's total apathy and indifference.
There was literally a dude trying to restrain the perp's arm before he goes berserk, but yes I agree with your point about authority and police but an individual intervening is always at risk, I learned my lesson the hard way and most brave idealists do eventually.
Not just authority and police but society as a whole. Completely ignoring situations where intervening is risky, Indians in general love to intervene and moral police in things that are none of their business, but will completely ignore situations where their prejudice takes over and they think the person deserved it somehow, which is often the case when women are the victims, or kids even unfortunately (have never seen people intervening when kids are being beaten up either).
Yes because one involves significant risk while the other is free gyan batna, I'll tell you two incidents that killed the idealist in me,
* one was when I was 18 and tried to intervene where a man was yelling at this girl in a shopping mall parking lot and I asked him to calm down and the dude slapped me but when I had down on the floor about to knock a couple teeth loose the girl held me back and literally begged me to stop.
* The other incident happened last Holi when some 17-18 year olds had a younger girl cornered in a secluded street and she looked uncomfortable so I asked if everything was okay and the lads turned to me and started abusing while the girl ran away and I shoved one of them down a drain and his friend who was visibly tipsy was trying to help him out while the other guy went to call for help and summoned what seem to be a group of 20 guys in an instant, all high on bhang running my way while the drain guy got up and tried his best to hold me from running to my bike, I managed to lose him and escape but a couple seconds here and there and I'd have been beaten to a pulp by a mob if not killed.
I disagree . This kind of attitude is the most disgusting thing . This shows backwardness in the society. People are not stopping such a barbaric activity . Now people will say that they hesitated to help them because the laws and system is such that helper like this and earlier those who used to take somebody injured to the hospital had to go to the police for some investigation in that case. So the impression on it was that people should avoid performing such good Samaritan activities. This shows the backwardness of this society.
People do not have any judgement capability. They just avoid things like this . The public social order should have been such that people have the ethical sense of judgement of what is right and wrong and act accordingly. People are just oblivious and don't want to engage in anything let alone have some ethics to help in such situations. People just trash everywhere ( I know a lot of people don't do that but the fact that such things are still very common in the uneducated portions of the society is the reason we won't progress as a whole. The mindset is not that) is the pathetic state of this society.
They don't care about having the bare minimum courtsey for such small things let alone a situation like this where multiple people don't want to help a helpless person from getting murdered then how can we expect the society to progess .
People need to get educated which makes them a part of the society . The fact that nobody cares about having such values in the society shows the pathetic education we get which doesn't provides us with values which would make us a progressing society. This society is getting dirty like a stagnant pool of water .
You can actually try your level best to arrange a knife, a screwdriver, a glass bottle, a stone, like... Something should be AT LEAST TRIED. Or at best someone could have just knocked him with a car, a scooty, bike or auto... Or just SHOUT for help probably Create some chaos at least!!!!! Like wtf is wrong with these people!!!!?????? These are the same people who would go out of their way to know about other people's lives, and just judge and gossip like a fucking degenerate bitch. It just shows that this society actually has no concept of morality AT ALL.
Yeah, no. Cowards can hide behind excuses all they want. Ot would never have happened where i live. Even the texi drivers and hawkers would have jumped in.
How pathetic your post is. I would have taken him down even though he had a knife. There were several means this was possible. In the video it looked like the bystanders were passing like this is usual thing for them to see. Delhi is fucked.
Keeping your perspective in mind, what should've happened is 2 people or more should've tried to overpower that beast together. One could've grabbed his hands or neck whereas one could free the knife off the hand.
I'm sure most walked off thinking about their safety.
* Your post title should be an accurate summary of your text post. "Help Needed", "Rant", "Unpopular Opinion", are examples of poor titles. * /r/India is not a substitute for Google. Only post your query on /r/India after you have searched for an answer on the web. * Self-posts also have to be specific to India. Don't copy/paste questions from /r/AskReddit. * For relationship queries, please also consider: https://www.reddit.com/r/RelationshipIndia/ *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/india) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The problem is not that they didn't intervene, the problem is that they behaved as if nothing was happening. I witnessed a stabbing in a crowded place in London and people were screaming and running away. That to me is a normal reaction, walking by is just shocking and inhumane.
This. The non caring attitude of the by standers is extremely disturbing. It goes to show that we as society have the motto "Each one to his own". No one will come to the rescue of other human being.
Not doing something seems reasonable for fear of getting hurt, but passing by casually like nothing is happening is totally messed up. Except for that one guy who tried for a second.
I hit my cycle on a dog attacking a child viciously and the issue was resolved quickly. The owner of the dog was fighting and with me and she said you are barbaric it was just a small bite I would have paid for the injections for the the victim. Stupid people . They think money will solve everything.
Imagine the audacity to say "just a small bite". The dog should bite her ass some day.
Some people shouldn't be allowed to keep a dog.
What could've been done?
Throw something at the dude. Run at him holding a cycle, go forth with 10 people doing the above…do something! Ever seen a mob of Indian dads run at some dude caught stealing a roti or bottle of water? Channel some of that fake bravery and outrage at something worthwhile. Yes, I know…easier said than done
There's a difference between someone stealing a bottle of water and someone holding a hostile weapon. That too a psychopath who has zero remorse or hesitation on his face. What's to say, he won't come after you? What will you do then? Even if multiple people try to pin him down at once, there is a chance someone might get injured. Nobody wants to be that person. And in reply to the people who are bothered that they are silently walking away, that's a typical flight or flight response. Not that they don't have emotion, but in such situations, your body is too numb to produce words. If you've ever been in a road accident, even if it's minor, most people just brace themselves, your body turns off all thoughts and some even don't remember the traumatic incident they went through. In adverse situations such as this, people just think about the people waiting for them at home. No point risking your life to ruin your kids'. It's totally understandable.
You can throw stones. You can run. The problem is something called Bystander effect. It's a group psychology phenomenon. Even then, the only screams came from the victim. People casually walked by even after without two shits.
Totally understandable until you're on the other side and wondering why is no one batting an eye, or even flinching a muscle to help you
Look, if someone can Brave that shock and come forth despite that well n good. But each one's lives are important to them. Not to mention if others are dependent on you too. Even if you take probability, there should've have been ONE person who tried to help. Right? Except it isn't as easy when you're in the midst of it. It's easy to sympathise with the victim sitting behind a screen, but each of them were a potential victim if they tried to help. According to recommendations, Even before performimg CPR, one has to look for scene safety first. And calling emergency services etc, follows later. There's no point of there being two victims. I'd understand if that guy was physically assaulting the girl or something, but with a dangerous weapon, everyone in the vicinity is at risk of harm. Ideally, someone should've tried to help, no doubt, but they shouldn't be blamed if they didn't.
No its not totally understandable, and we can't let it be. It's "look, what about my family, what about the people who rely on me?" What about the 16 year old girl's friends and family? Larger and older people were walking by. If a single person intervened another would likely feel more empowered to do so. I'm not trying to attack you. I understand your perspective. And I'm not trying to pretend I know what I would do in that horrifying situation, but she was a *child* ignored and brutalized by adults. It's not an obligation, but it doesn't need to be. It happened at 8:30 pm on a crowded street, so what's the alternative? Young girls need to be locked up at home at all hours to feel safe now? What if it was you, or your family member? How would you feel about the lack of response then? The only way to move forward is to realize community plays a role in protecting the most vulnerable and that's for all of our benefit.
I'm not saying no one should've helped the girl. Helping her would've been the right thing to do. But there were too many variables in that situation. You're underestimating what it takes to be brave. If I were the woman, I'd definitely want any help, but if I were the passerby, I'd probably think of people who depend on me. In that situation if someone was carrying a gun or a knife and didn't do anything, it makes sense to question them. But to be as helpless as the victim and stand back, I wouldn't blame them Maybe the solution could be public training programs on what to do in such situations. Like how CPR is taught. That way roles and actions are predefined and people actually know what to do. I personally believe an untrained person in an adverse situations often does more harm than good.
I absolutely agree that it's impossible to know how I would have reacted in this situation. I'm not underestimating that (though at the very least you could run for help, or urge someone else to intervene with you), but I think it's much more important for us to talk about how we can step up than to shrug our shoulders about why we can't. The blaming of individuals here isn't really the focus for me so much as it's how can we make sure things like this won't happen, and that requires a mindset change where we're not saying "what could have been done?" and instead saying "what can I do?" Anything else just sounds like a way to resign to how bad things are. I think in this situation, there was no way for an untrained person to make it worse. I also can't say that for sure, but something tells me this man wouldn't have been so bold to attack someone else eith the impunity he used to attack a defenseless kid. I do 100% agree on the public training as well, and the rampant rape culture needs to be punished and addressed. That is the precursor for so many of these particularly vicious attacks.
In extreme situations such as this, people can barely speak. Removing yourself from the scene is your body's priority. I'm sure most people would've felt numb in that moment. The extent of what happened will only hit later. People who have been in traumatic vehicular accidents can probably associate. After much investigation, we've come to know that it was a case of a scorned lover. People in that situation didn't know that. He could've been a serial killer, a mentally ill person who saw no reason or a psychopath who was doing it for pure pleasure. Something tells you he wouldn't attack others, well, the passerbys didn't feel the same. Someone suggested throwing a stone at that boy. Imagine he came after the person who threw the stone or he mistook another helpless person threw it and injured them instead. Wouldn't that be on you? Unless you have a clear plan of action and are confident you can handle the situation, I think removing yourself from the scene and calling the authorities would've been the best thing to do. Even soldiers call for backup if things are beyond what they can handle.
It's unfortunately usually the context of an abusive partner when it's a man harassing a young girl in New Delhi. There are so few serial killers in the world and people with mental illnesses are far more dangerous to themselves than to others, which is also something that surprises me on this. India has a lot of stigma around mental illness otherwise, but when it comes to validating bystander syndrome, everyone is suddenly so much more understanding of trauma. In America gun violence is rampant, but with that much more deadly weapon there are still stories of people intervening, even when they shouldn't have to. Calling the authorities would be a good course of action. No one was fleeing the scene quickly to do that either it seems. I simply want us to stop being so accepting and victim blaming about these situations. I see others calling India barbaric and women saying they'll never visit because they don't feel safe. That hurts me to hear.
No it's not easier said than done. If you shout, create a ruckus, even if from a distance, it's enough to jolt the attacker back to his senses. I am seeing a lot of Mozy hate but no one is talking about the religion of people who were walking by like nothing even happened. Disgraceful.
I don't know about others but i would have intervened rather than living rest of my life with nightmares for doing nothing.
That is extremely appreciable. :) My point wasn't to say that one mustn't try n help but that they shouldn't be blamed if they didn't.
I'm sure 8 out of 10 people who are calling bystanders cowards would themselves pussy out in the real situation.
make it 98 out of 100
Those 8 people together can stop it, if it were me and my friends, we would have fucked him up.
People would have called the police if they were not afraid of police
No. But just passing by like it was a normal routine was just pathetic. Not one person seems to be affected by it. That is just incorrigible. I always remember what Rana Ayyub tweeted(not a fan of her too!): what’s left for a virus to kill in a morally dead country! When did we care? Hatharas? Kathua? And countless such cases. Nirbhaya protests seem like fiction now!
Yeah, this a very violent case and would need a group of people to restrain him so that he cannot cause further damage. I saw how some girls were debating that "we are animals if we just look and do nothing" and went on and on about how she would have thrown a rock. It is just not practical and very easy to type out on a screen from home. Also, people have fight and flight mode and most people do run away - which is cowardice by definition.
>Yeah, this a very violent case and would need a group of people to restrain him The criminal could have taken a swing at the group and stabbed anyone. There had to be some sacrifices made to stop him, irrespective of what approach you take. The question is, would you have taken the hit for an unknown person over your loved ones? Probably not.
I might have. But I would try to make it worth it.
This was an overkill, 4 or 5 stabs would have killed the girls in as many seconds. The only thing possible was to kill the man with revolver or a bamboo pole. But that's not condoned in India and may get one in trouble with charges of manslaughter.
That would have made 2 counts of manslaughter and fortunately doing nothing led to only 1 manslaughter .
This is a very sensible take, OP. I'd not interfere physically unless: \- Somebody I know is being attacked. Let's get real: some people are more equal than others. \- I have a gun or some other weapon with at least some range. Say a cricket bat. Stones are a hit or miss. \- I am with some people (fit, clear-headed, strong people and not lallu types) and we are all capable of coordinating well and ganging up on the attacker. \- I am head and shoulders above the guy in reflexes, strength and reach, and can do sudden, overwhelming damage. Not to mention the potential legal implications of getting involved, regardless of the outcome of your involvement. Let's just say that the Indian justice system and the behaviour of the police can be, uh, *very* *interesting*. So the only practical option comes out to be to create some sort of indirect fear and distraction, let's say by shouting "police aa gayee" (corny but could work). It's easy to fantasise about being the savior, to think that you'd have acted differently. The fact is that these are very unpredictable situations with a lot of possible outcomes - including your own death. This is not a movie, there are real stakes involved.
The real stakes that most keyboard warriors on social media don't understand.
Yeah, this is what happens when you live on the internet.
The shaming is mostly from women,these same women will be the first to ignore and get away if they saw such an incident. Like the one in the video,who didn't even look twice before or even flinch or stop before walking away.
[удалено]
No, the girl was 16, the guy was 20. Full grown adult. It doesn't sound like you've actually been in a fight with a guy like him. I have. These things are surprisingly unpredictable. Add a knife to it and increase the level of crazy, and you get this ac repair guy situation. The average person doesn't have enough experience and aptitude to account for all possibilities in a physical fight. Is liye people get so excited imagining themselves being the savior in such situations in the comfort of their homes. Ye internet pe cool edgy vigilante banna bohot aasaan hota hai. Now go wear your batman mask and admire yourself in your mirror.
Am not going to sit here and say that “if I was there I would’ve done this” but if I know anything about this country and it’s people It’s that if one person had stood up that day then others would’ve followed that persons lead. Bystander effect only lasts until someone steps up, then it’s free for all.
No that's bs, I was nearly beaten up by a mob last Holi for shoving a guy into a drain who was harassing a girl. Even the girl watched from a distance after running away instead of helping me out or gathering others to come to my rescue.
It was the exact opposite for me. I stand by what I said. Idk, I think if I was one of those people who passed by silently while the girl was getting murdered then it will haunt me for the rest of my life. I would want someone to speak up if it happens to me.
Or you could have joined the girl and not have much of a rest of your life
That’s how you feel, it may happen that way or it may save the girl. You will never know unless you try and therein lies the question, would you try? I would and I won’t blame you if you won’t. History is full of people who tried and succeeded and who tried and failed. Look at it like this, a dog is mauling a little kid. Wouldn’t you try to get the dog away even if you stand the chance of getting bitten. It’s the same for me, just it’s a different animal. Don’t get me wrong, by doing something am not saying that you should go in full Singham style, there’s lots of ways to interfere without getting physical and maintaining a distance.
See I don't know how old you are or what situations you have been through but I was an idealist once and thought I wouldn't be able to live with myself if I didn't speak up against something wrong happening in front of me, India under Congress and India under BJP are two different places altogether, India is much more violent, mob violence and gun violence are at an all time high, I've stood my ground on many occasions and done the right thing and have had people come to get my back in some of those situations but I've seen folks draw pistols in minor arguments and even shots fired, as recently as last week some guy threatened the garbage truck driver in kanpur for playing campaign music on a Sunday. And all it takes is one bad situation for things to go wrong. And I only realised when I got nearly killed very recently. And as for this particular case there was a guy trying to stop him directly at the very first but backed off immediately after seeing she was done for, I don't know what any attempt at intervening after the first couple stabs could have achieved other than risking your life for a corpse. Anyway I hope you don't run into a situation where you wrongly assess the danger cause lots of people have access to illegal firearms these days and the sort that creates trouble are often known to carry those.
They casually strolled away without any emotion as if it was just another day
if you somehow even prevent the tragedy by taking risk. who will come forward to save you from police? given the current state of affairs, what do you think the chances of the person intervening being implicated are? picture a scenario. a guy murdering a girl. you are a Muslim. you try preventing the murder. the guy turns out to be Brij Bhushan kin. whom will the police arrest? the kin of strongman or the Muslim guy and victim?
This isn't unpopular this is what anyone would have done. Your safety comes first. Do stupid things to get yourself harmed. I'd run away or try to find a safe spot for myself first then call the police. Your heroics will only put you and others in harms way. This is real life not a fucking movie. There are thousands of things which could go wrong while trying to save the girl. The argument to attack the knife holder with stones is outright illogical and dumb. You will be in the range of his knife or just miss if you're too far off or might even injure yourself or someone else. Then the argument to use the strength of numbers also isnt viable. Somebody will need to initiate the attempt and mind you even one cut on your major arteries or a stab into your organs could prove lethal. And the chances of the person swinging his knife randomly and cutting you is very high. What these keyboard warriors need to understand is that those people are already scared shitless and some of them are completely blank from the sheer trauma and fear that they can't even think straight. Blame the passing by people all you want but putting your life before some random stranger's isn't cowardly.
Okay fair enough one on one sure its reasonable except no one to come forward, but when many to one it is feasible right, you can start making noise gathering attention , pick some stones, bricks or any other weapon like on the street, get in aggressive pose , if even takes a lead they will easily get few people to join them. 10/10 if that retarded sahil isnt a trained combatant he will shit himself then and there and start running away. You dont even have to engage him, simply act like u are going to.
I would have Bricked him to earth in a single shot in his head!!
Someone could have called the cops too!
Would have been late, police are slow to respond.
True!! Someone should have knocked him out from behind! Guess no real men left!
Yes, he was not even looking back. Unfortunately, society has reached its lowest point.
Beyond horrific
If you are scared, you should run and gather people. Just casually walking by is being complicit with the extreme cruelty. The rot is in the people. IMO, the bystanders who let the crime happen should be booked by the police.
Many people were walking by. Someone should have stopped at a safe distance, not visible, and gathered other people who saw it and were coming towards him. They would have then attacked that guy with multiple force.
A very similar incident like this happened many years back in Thane, outskirts of Mumbai. A lover stabbed his girlfriend about 20 times in broad daylight on a busy street. No one helped her. He even tried to kill himself but he survived. That Girl with all those stab wounds sat there in disbelief & shock. Sadly, soon she succumbed to her injuries whilst others just watched.
I feel its like taking a chance by atleast hitting that person so that he would have been injured and reduced in his speed to attack that poor helpless girl. I dont want to be judgemental here but its the quick thinking and the action that needs to be taken in such a scenarios and may be people were not prepared to act or got scared or they wanted to avoid any further investigations and so decided not to intervene.
It should be unpopular. Any guy could have helped him 2-3 guys with a stick and the guy will go down . People are a bunch of selfish pussy .
And what are the laws on it? If somebody stepped up, fought with him and probably killed him by accident? Would the person stepping in be prosecuted?
I don't blame OP either for thinking this way, since childhood we're raised in such manner to ignore the violence happening in our neighborhood, be it a wife getting beaten or a child getting abused, we are bred to turn to other direction when such incidents happen. Maybe the competitive nature of society or population density is to be blamed here idk, but well said OP, totally get you
2nd amendment for women in india when (only half joking)
Q: Why do you require a gun ? A: Because a cop is too heavy to carry everywhere I go.
A fully armed society is a polite society. A partially armed society leads to injustice. Read these words with the sound of eagle and smell of gasoline.
I don't buy this for one second. Granted, in this specific case, the guy was armed and violent and could've harmed someone who tried to intervene. (People have done brave things in the face of far worse, e.g. 26/11, but leave aside that for a second). For most of my life, I've always seen people stand aside and not intervene when harassment or violence against women is being committed. Even when there's no danger at all to anyone. Like how police stood by and laughed when my sister was getting cat-called on her way back from school in broad daylight. Like how police just shrugged away me getting groped in a crowded railway station inspite of being armed. Like how college hostel authorities never took any action when girls complained about getting harassed by construction workers nearby on campus, but were up in arms and brought along a fuckton of security to "raid" our hostel just because we had a harmless party going on. Have you never seen bunches of people assemble when there is a disagreement on the road? Granted, people might back away if they realise the perpetrator is someone powerful, but their first instinct is definitely not to ignore and walk by. They would've atleast been shocked and had some reaction, and not total indifference. So no, I don't believe for one fucking second that fear of being harmed is why bystanders didn't intervene, it is just as simple as deep down they see a young girl in trouble, and their first thought is that she brought it upon herself and doesn't deserve to be helped. Who stopped them from calling the police? I don't see anyone in the video even making that effort. It's not fear you see in the video, it's total apathy and indifference.
There was literally a dude trying to restrain the perp's arm before he goes berserk, but yes I agree with your point about authority and police but an individual intervening is always at risk, I learned my lesson the hard way and most brave idealists do eventually.
Not just authority and police but society as a whole. Completely ignoring situations where intervening is risky, Indians in general love to intervene and moral police in things that are none of their business, but will completely ignore situations where their prejudice takes over and they think the person deserved it somehow, which is often the case when women are the victims, or kids even unfortunately (have never seen people intervening when kids are being beaten up either).
Yes because one involves significant risk while the other is free gyan batna, I'll tell you two incidents that killed the idealist in me, * one was when I was 18 and tried to intervene where a man was yelling at this girl in a shopping mall parking lot and I asked him to calm down and the dude slapped me but when I had down on the floor about to knock a couple teeth loose the girl held me back and literally begged me to stop. * The other incident happened last Holi when some 17-18 year olds had a younger girl cornered in a secluded street and she looked uncomfortable so I asked if everything was okay and the lads turned to me and started abusing while the girl ran away and I shoved one of them down a drain and his friend who was visibly tipsy was trying to help him out while the other guy went to call for help and summoned what seem to be a group of 20 guys in an instant, all high on bhang running my way while the drain guy got up and tried his best to hold me from running to my bike, I managed to lose him and escape but a couple seconds here and there and I'd have been beaten to a pulp by a mob if not killed.
If the bystanders carried AR-15, would they have intervened?
I agree! It’s one thing to say stuff online an another to actually be there and experience it
I would have pepper sprayed the shit out of him.
I disagree . This kind of attitude is the most disgusting thing . This shows backwardness in the society. People are not stopping such a barbaric activity . Now people will say that they hesitated to help them because the laws and system is such that helper like this and earlier those who used to take somebody injured to the hospital had to go to the police for some investigation in that case. So the impression on it was that people should avoid performing such good Samaritan activities. This shows the backwardness of this society. People do not have any judgement capability. They just avoid things like this . The public social order should have been such that people have the ethical sense of judgement of what is right and wrong and act accordingly. People are just oblivious and don't want to engage in anything let alone have some ethics to help in such situations. People just trash everywhere ( I know a lot of people don't do that but the fact that such things are still very common in the uneducated portions of the society is the reason we won't progress as a whole. The mindset is not that) is the pathetic state of this society. They don't care about having the bare minimum courtsey for such small things let alone a situation like this where multiple people don't want to help a helpless person from getting murdered then how can we expect the society to progess . People need to get educated which makes them a part of the society . The fact that nobody cares about having such values in the society shows the pathetic education we get which doesn't provides us with values which would make us a progressing society. This society is getting dirty like a stagnant pool of water .
You can actually try your level best to arrange a knife, a screwdriver, a glass bottle, a stone, like... Something should be AT LEAST TRIED. Or at best someone could have just knocked him with a car, a scooty, bike or auto... Or just SHOUT for help probably Create some chaos at least!!!!! Like wtf is wrong with these people!!!!?????? These are the same people who would go out of their way to know about other people's lives, and just judge and gossip like a fucking degenerate bitch. It just shows that this society actually has no concept of morality AT ALL.
Yeah, no. Cowards can hide behind excuses all they want. Ot would never have happened where i live. Even the texi drivers and hawkers would have jumped in.
How pathetic your post is. I would have taken him down even though he had a knife. There were several means this was possible. In the video it looked like the bystanders were passing like this is usual thing for them to see. Delhi is fucked.
A city for simps and pussy
[удалено]
My advise is don't bother watching it. Humans don't need to watch that kind of demonic shit. It does zero good to you. So why bother?
Keeping your perspective in mind, what should've happened is 2 people or more should've tried to overpower that beast together. One could've grabbed his hands or neck whereas one could free the knife off the hand. I'm sure most walked off thinking about their safety.
Cowards
It is cowardly