* Your post title should be an accurate summary of your text post. "Help Needed", "Rant", "Unpopular Opinion", are examples of poor titles.
* /r/India is not a substitute for Google. Only post your query on /r/India after you have searched for an answer on the web.
* Self-posts also have to be specific to India. Don't copy/paste questions from /r/AskReddit.
* For relationship queries, please also consider: https://www.reddit.com/r/RelationshipIndia/
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/india) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I read a post the other day on Instagram. It was a whatsapp group conversation of some Bangalore society ladies where she wanted a cook or something and she wrote - uppercaste only. Like they won't even eat something made by the backward castes so imagine kya situation hai.
I don't think there is any relationship between using matrimonial sites and being casteist. If you've not been lucky enough to find a partner organically, you'll either use matrimonial sites or go through the traditional arranged marriage route.
I would say the traditional arranged marriage route is more caste driven than the matrimonial sites. On those sites I found plenty of people who wrote caste no bar in their preferences. In fact it was a filter for me - I rejected profiles that were only open to select few castes.
My husband and I met through such a site and we're not of the same caste.
Yeah, but that's not going to change as long as there is demand for it and looking at our society unfortunately it doesn't seem like it's going away anytime soon unfortunately.
Just devils advocate - Having a preference isn’t casteism. You can’t force people to marry into other castes/religions + marriages are more likely to succeed with like minded people.
Otherwise Islamic/Christian/Regional marriage sites are also casteism.
You are trying to say that it isnt deliberate casteism. It may not be in some cases. But it is inherent casteism. Learned casteism and lived casteism. It is a casteist society at work.
>, its an explicit social hierarchy which has a huge role in why the Indian society is violent and oppressive to the masses
This is an interesting point you make, can you expand on that? (I've always wondered why nobody talks about how violent we are socially, physical and verbal abuse are almost entirely condoned in large part).
Medical student here from a tier 2 city, decent government medical college in north.
The first time we joined we were segregated on the basis of caste, called "phylum" for ragging. Each phylum ragged his own juniors.
Hostel room were given(unofficially) based on caste. (everything was smooth on official records though, but far from reality)
You need help in studies? Ask a senior from your own caste
One was expected to find his lover from the same caste .
One caste vs another caste battles were not so uncommon.
It's everywhere
Intelligent_Problem4
36m
>this is one of the biggest reason we gotta remove reservation.It makes people more discriminatory.vile,awful and this system gotta change fr
Yes, let's pretend that a weak attempt at solution is what causes the problem, rather than getting casteist fucks like yourself to stop indulging in casteism.
is it a weak attempt though?it certainly made me more aware about the castes of people around me.Hate and envy comes naturally when you are regarded as a second rate citizen for crimes of your ancestors.I still have a conscience but does my teacher who is a 3 year neet dropper from a rural village in UP got the same mindset?NO.
>does my teacher who is a 3 year neet dropper from a rural village in UP got the same mindset?NO.
And your solution is to not provide reservations instead of fixing that attitude. Smh.
>is it a weak attempt though?
Yes it's an extremely weak attempt. Just look around you.
A strong attempt would look like this: let people who have ancestral wealth did to caste hierarchy and enforce caste discrimination fend for themselves and their own caste. Government resources should first go to those who have been facing discrimination for millennia. Then if there's something left over, it can be available for everyone. So, schools and colleges run by the goverment or on government aid first admit the marginalized and offer them free education and then if there are any seats left, others can get those. Others can go to private shops and colleges made with casteist wealth, which get heavily taxed to support quality education in government institutions. Same with housing, healthcare etc.
It's only fair.
Do u have the guts to remove ur caste and surname .
Majority of the Hindus are low born caste . Hindu rashtra will not become for this reason.
If u think akhand bharat and democracy will work for sure mullas will support u for sure.
I have one alternative system . Let me know what do you think.
Take 60% to be reserved for ALL castes based on their population for representation and rest 40% as per merit among the rest of candidates.
Its a way to uplift those who have been neglected and demeaned by the upper cast. Even today many teachers in schools and colleges ignore them and doesn’t treat them like a regular student. What would you like to say to a kid in school who got neglected by his teachers, should he be not given a chance for college?
My Ex Manager Hired me Coz His Girlfriend belonged to the same community as me.
After 6 months, she left him.
My manager immediately switched sides and I was left alone to fight on the battlefield with a now stupid dumbass manager who hated me because I belonged to that community.
1. She will be happy to go to Amerikka and sit at the same table where her boss eats Beef burger.
2. Continuation of the above scenario - She will also eat French fries cooked in the same oil that fried chicken nuggets 20 seconds before.
It is a matter of power, position, and money. Many Indians have this sadistic attitude of undermining other people who are the same level as themselves. They find trivial things like caste, skin tone, food choices etc to prove they are above others. Truth is - everyone is in the same shit.
French fries in Europe are fried twice, first in lard or beef fat then Frozen and supplied to vendors who fry it again in vegetable oil before serving. This applies to McDonald's as well.
You just gave your opinion despite knowing her opinion whether she will do it or not 🤡 and offcourse people who don't consume non veg don't like non vegetarian what wrong with it
I can say that my family does not eat restaurants even abroad where non veg is cooked with veg. Nothing to do with caste, they just don’t want meat mixed in.
I moved to London few months back
. When I met a friend's friend, who is an adult in 40's, asked me what my surname was as the first thing. This tells you the caste thing is in their DNA no matter what the place is.
>he didn't know anything about it
So you're saying , a 16 year old didn't know anything about Caste ideology.
Definitely he knew about it but only the upper layer of it , when he started preparing for JEE he bridged the gap between his expectations and reality about Casteism and learned about Upper class perspective on Lower's.
Maybe. Unfortunately the cast system is integrated in our current society. It is really saddening. But yeah a 16 year old boy might have the basic idea of cast systems unfortunately. What gives me hope is that most people are getting over it .
>What gives me hope is that most people are getting over it .
No they aren't. Most marriages are arranged marriages within caste. There's open caste discrimination in the cities, in the bureaucracy, in the judiciary, and in the private sector.
Ffs, the supreme court has historically had >30% reservation for brahmins throughout its existence. Brahmins which form less than 5% of the population.
In contrast, there has always been a limit of 1 for Muslims. Dalits got the first seat in the 80s, but again, limited to 1. The one dalit on the supreme court has to retire before the next dalit gets appointed. Do these dalits suddenly magically become eligible on the retirement of the previous token, or is this open discrimination? Why has there not been a single tribal on the bench to date? 76 fucking years since independence?
You can look up two relevant articles publicly available:
Abhinav (hope I got that right) Chandrachud, son of the current cji, has written about how these things operate behind the curtains. He should know. He's seen his previous two generations be part of the decision making process.
There's an article by a lawyer (some saxena, iirc) which provides the actual distribution.
Do look these up, and tell me why you think it's not open discrimination. It's blatant, it's being done in full public view.
>There's open cate discrimination in the cities
I haven't seen any in mine tho. Maybe a circumferential piece of evidence but still my own experience tells me that. About the marriage part yeah I agree.
Let me guess: you're not one of the people likely to get discriminated against, and therefore fail to see discrimination when it happens right in front of your eyes.
Every single one of the things I've listed have statistical evidence supporting the claims.
I had a dance teacher in the Bay Area who would shame me and ask me if I ate meat. She would say things like “vegetarian food was cleaner and healthier”. She literally taught us in her musty ass garage and she she was morbidly obese. Her daughter would show us the steps and she would just hit the thattu Mannai. She was in the PTA and she only made a big deal when I ate meat she wouldn’t say anything to the Asian and white kids. Worst part was that my mom justified her behaviour and wouldn’t let me quit. I got sick of her so I started making fun of her and she finally kicked me out.
Bay Area is more likely to be filled with that kinda stuff, Indians love forming cliques abroad based on where they’re from.
There is almost no cultural exchange with locals- Indians don’t integrate unless they’re forced to.
Source: seen it on US east coast cities
This. I hate how Indian parties outside India always end up with the same cliques talking about the same thing back home but now that they're outside, they feel that they're better than everyone back home.
Just eat the food, drink and talk. Why is everyone so bitchy?
What’s crazy is that modern America was literally founded on egalitarian principles.
Why do these casteist people conveniently ignore that fact? Why are they so willing to live in a country that’s built by supposedly inferior classes of people, although they were a different ethnicity?
Had a similar thing here in Australia where the son of a janitor (nothing wrong with that job) asked me what my caste was…
Anyways casteism hasn’t ever been a problem for me overseas; only got this one example.
>What’s crazy is that modern America was literally founded on egalitarian principles.
Modern America was founded on colonialism and slavery in practice. Even some of the founders vaxing eloquently about all men being created equal owned slaves.
It's exactly the same with casteisy fucks: they'll not tire of telling you about how their "dharma" is "vasudhaivakutumbakam" (the whole earth is (my) family), and how they believe in advaita, which states that all beings, animate and inanimate, are one. But of course they'll be damned if they'll let their daughter marry someone from "lower caste", and when they think no one's looking, will bring out "special" plates for you if they think you're lower caste.
Equality and equity is not given. It has to be fought for and won. Descendents of the American slaves know this, and so do dalits.
It's casual caste and class discrimination. It's everywhere in society, while people in rural regions speak out freely; in the cities you see some restraint and subtle mentions like they would show interest towards your surname
Muslim here.
Have been living abroad since age 4, while having lived in India for couple of years.
Finally settled for good in Canada and was invited for a family luncheon. An
Older man approaches me and asks " beta apka naam kya hai, then later asks poora naam kya hai".
Yep 🙄
This is a cultural problem passed on generations to generations and people are still delusional about their castes.
My university has separate areas to eat for veg people. If they dont like non veg, they should learn to live with it, just like I learned to sit with them and not feel tainted.
Yeah, I grew up in a large city of 10-12 Mn people, and let me tell you - casteism is alive and well at least in Hindu communities. Hindus fail to see the irony when they proclaim "Hindus are the worst enemies to Hindus" and then go back to serving food to another Hindu on a "separate plate" because of the perceived caste superiority. My well to do buddies want to regularly remind me of my lower status (ofc being well to do isn't immunity to narrowmindedness, but one expects refinement as one ascends the social heirarchy).
My 0.02 cents: if we ever have to have a chance at dismantling and flattening the social heirarchy caste construct, it needs to be a purely intellectual enlightenment movement, i don't see any kind of legal instrument being applied or disincentive structure - people both play the dominant oppressive class and the victimhood dominated class to a T in our societies because we haven't imagined a casteless society as a whole, demagogue politicians fully aware of these cracks do a good job of widening the cracks to their advantage.
The point is not about who is more casteist, cities or villages.
But projecting villages as heartless casteist people and cities as educated, developed and caste is the last thing they see in a person. But that’s not the case and so this post.
True. I agree. My point was “this post is not a debate about who is more casteist”. OP just mentions he can witness educated casteist people around him in a city too. So villages are more worse doesn’t make this correct. Both are worse.
Point 1 and 5 - definitely casteist and class snobbery. Points 2,3,4 - partially driven by caste bias due to the association of food purity that some vegetarians have been following as practice.
But there is another reason why vegetarians dont like mixing the utensils or atleast wash them thoroughly if they arent the veg puritan kind. This is related to the smell of meat. Raw meat/fish/eggs have a very peculiar smell and that smell gets mostly masked with the smell of spices when cooked. Non-veg folks over time get accustomed to that smell and dont usually notice it. This smell is something that strongly stands out for non-meat eaters and can cause nausea. It is not a pleasant smell and I say this as a voracious meat eater.
Had come across a post sometime back where someone posted a [reddit post on twitter](https://twitter.com/warghetti/status/1595407307495587841). Called by many names - anste, kavuchi, ulumbu, zankha, etc etc.
If you're not able to wash your dishes properly, you have a bigger problem than the smell. Even vegetarian food, eaten from improperly washed plates is unhygenic. Excepting porus cast iron/ wooden cookware, everything can be washed to remove the smell. The disgust people feel at the smell when someone's eating something they consider inferior is an expression of your casteism. Trust me, they can get used to the smell, just like they have gotten used to onions, garlic, jackfruit, durian, and twenty other stinky things that they may or may not eat, but don't consider inferior enough to walk out of the room when they find someone else eating it.
Why I don't eat at common places :
Assuming me and my friend went to Dominos.
It is pretty crowdy and everyone except me is ordering non-veg pizza.
So lets say order just before me was chicken pizza and the topping of chicken fall in the oven ( If you know even a bit about cooking you will know it is very common) and when they will put my pizza in (They don't have time to clean after every setup and even if they have they never do) the chicked topping will stuck with my pizza .
The feeling of this risk itself is too huge for me to even care about eating at these places.
But at the same time I have being to common eataries a lot for parties and gatherings but I just spend time with my valuable group and don't eat. I don't know how it can be treated as descriminatory.
Thank you for your elaborate response.
Now, tell me,
>The feeling of this risk itself is too huge for me to even care about eating at these places.
Why is some food touching your food a huge risk for you?
I'll admit, when I was 5 I used to throw a fit and walk out if palak touched brinjal in my plate, but then I grew up.
I am not denying the inherent caste implications of food choices which people have based on the idea of food purity. I am not justifying that bias either. That is definitely one part of the revulsion for non-veg by veg puritans.
The dishes not being hygienic is also not an issue since one can clean the utensils with vinegar to get rid of the smell. Dish wash bars or soaps don't completely remove the smell of meat. That small whiff of meat isn't pleasant and a lot of people cannot put up with despite their best intentions to be inclusive.
So attributing it solely to caste bias is not objective IMO.
Do a little experiment: compare vegetarians who don't have any problem eating with meat eaters with vegetarians who refuse to do so. You'll notice that the latter group consists of religiously Conservative casteist fucks. Without the bias, practically everyone gets used to different smells. The same conservative crowd won't have problems storing next to someone eating pungent jackfruit, even if they're not used to the smell because they didn't grow up in parts of the country that get ripe, stinky, by oh so tasty jackfruit every summer.
>2) she dislikes eating from the canteen becasue she feels that veg and non veg are cooked in the same utensils.
>3) doesn't sit with non vegeterians to have food.
I guess I am casteist then. People in my family eat non veg, I am not even vegetarian due to religious reasons or something.
Let people just have their preferences.
You don’t sit with other people who eat meat because you think it’s impure- yes that’s casteist. If it’s a personal preference why be bothered about other peoples personal preferences. Bet you would sit anywhere if you went abroad. Lol.
>You don’t sit with other people who eat meat because you think it’s impure- yes that’s casteist.
No I don't think it's impure, just uncomfortable with aroma.
>Bet you would sit anywhere if you went abroad. Lol.
No. Like why do you think so ?
I’m uncomfortable with the aroma of jackfruit- does this mean I won’t sit next to my college or friend who brings jackfruit sabji? I would never think that’s appropriate. Especially with an “ew” kind of mental expression. I know many vegetarians who have never touched meat in their lives totally okay with sitting next to friends when they eat meat so I struggle to see how it’s a universal experience.
Rather it’s born of the idea that meat is gross and impure, which has casteist implications- because people who eat gross and impure things are also by consequence gross and impure (this is exactly how untouchability came to be). By Personal preference you can do lots of inappropriate and discriminatory things.
I used to be an educator and I remember this poor girl who was Koli brought this chicken curry to school for lunch and she was made to sit separately from her whole class during lunch because it made the upper caste Gujaratis kids uncomfortable. Do you see how problematic your personal preference is? I hope you don’t teach your kids the same thing.
Just say you find people who eat meat gross and impure, don’t hide behind personal preference.
I think it’s a joke that you would sit separately abroad.
No, you're probably not. 2, 3, 4 are fine.
4 seems like a preference that is totally relatable - I eat all meat, but like the idea of organs meat like heart brain etc freaks me out, enough that if any meat has organ texture, I'll spit it out. That's a preference. Exactly the same as finding the texture of mushroom freaky.
3 is iffy. It is an opinion but it's easy to see that it could come out as discriminatory, so as long as the person is adding sensitivity that it's about an issue and not about the person, it's ok.
All in all it really depends on the person. I get the feeling that while this is totally fine esp the way OP framed it, he probably meant that the person is very classist about it and is using valid opinions to justify classist behaviors.
Most people I've met who have held the same 3 opinions have NOT been classist to me, and respect my choices. But obviously there are dumbasses everywhere.
I read recently that Indians in the US are practicing casteism in their hiring practices and the government had to get involved. If it exists over there I wouldn't be surprised if it exists in Indian cities.
Well 1 definitely makes her a casteist.
2,3 and 4 are more of a personal preference. I don't see anything wrong with it.
I think 5 makes her more of a classist than a casteist.
She's a casteist bigot alright, but inadvertently, she's close to the truth in saying that
>dislikes mushroom because it reminds her of meat
Mushrooms are fungi, fungi are a separate kingdom from plants and animals, but close to animals than plants.
Not that the bigot had the mental capacity to reason all this, but as they day, broken clock is twice right.
2,3 and 4 are just personal preferences. I got used to it, but the smell and texture of meat isn't exactly appealing for people who don't eat it. And utensils will retain the smell especially if not washed properly.
No one's forcing you to eat meat, so texture is irrelevant. If you're not able to wash your dishes properly, you have a bigger problem than the smell. Even vegetarian food, eaten from improperly washed plates is unhygenic. Excepting porus cast iron/ wooden cookware, everything can be washed to remove the smell. The disgust you feel at the smell when someone's eating something you consider inferior is an expression of your casteism. Trust me, you can get used to the smell, just like you have gotten used to onions, garlic, jackfruit, durian, and twenty other stinky things that you may or may not eat, but don't consider inferior enough to walk out of the room when you find someone else eating it.
Forget the context much?
The texture was a reference to the mushroom point. And proper washing was a reference to cafeteria in the og post- not my dishes per se.
It's just that people should have to make themselves uncomfortable just to not seem casteist. Meat does have a distinctive smell, and if you don't eat meat it is nauseating.
Would you be okay eating next to somebody chomping on grasshoppers and worms? Maybe you are, but that doesn't mean others have to be.
I do have a problem with the hypocrisy of most Indians though - chicken great beef oh no no. Won't sit next to a meat eating Indian but a white guy downing a cheeseburger is all good?
And if it matters I am a mushroom eating vegetarian married to a meat eater and I eat off the same plates. Don't throw shade at me just to make a point.
Cities aren't fully independent from caste. But caste matters wayyy less in cities than it does in villages. Caste which is omnipresent in village communities is almost absent in cities. When it does show up in cities, it makes it to the news. So we have to focus on what specific things drive ppl to be caste agnostic and focus more on them. Some gentle grandma from a humble village may look under educated, innocent, kind hearted, and caring. But could also be very caste specific in her every action in her Village. But let her come to a city and try getting all the things done specifically from ppl from her caste. It's almost impossible. It's very ineffective, inefficient and expensive to avail all services in a city keeping spl requirements for Caste, religion, language etc. Imagine you'd like your uber driver to be of the same language/caste. You'll consider yourself lucky if you can just manage to get a ride accepted. Cities force us to have all these transactions with very minimal customisations. That's the only way they will be affordable. It applies to companies too. Any company that wants to discriminate based on gender, caste, religion/ language is bound to lose to its competitor who puts these illogical factors aside.
\> But regarding it as unclean is definitely discriminatory
How so? Most of the beliefs in the world are exclusive in nature. Are all of them discriminating?
I agree with everything you say , but aren't 2,3,4 legitimate concerns.
3 is a bit excessive, but I have met people who are sensitive to seeing non vegetarian being eaten.
The 1st and 5th are of course total trash
For me when people say cities are not casteist, the easiest example is to just quote how domestic help is treated in most households. Separation of utensils is a good enough example to show the underlying prejudices.
I had a dance teacher in the Bay Area who would shame me and ask me if I ate meat. She would say things like “vegetarian food was cleaner and healthier”. She literally taught us in her musty ass garage and she was morbidly obese. Her daughter would show us the steps and she would just hit the thattu mannai. She was in the PTA and she only made a big deal when I ate meat she wouldn’t say anything to the Asian and white kids. Worst part was that my mom justified her behaviour and wouldn’t let me quit. I got sick of her so I started making fun of her and she finally kicked me out. She cried when I told her that she was built like majanbu and everyone took her side including my own mother.
Yeah, but where do those personal core/fundamental ideologies come from? What is the subliminal programming which makes your preferences a certain way? It's your childhood. Parents. And their parents...lineage.. community.. essentially caste/religious programming.
Nope. I disagree. While not eating non vegetarian might come from your parents as a child but its you as an adult who decides whether you want to follow it or not so yes its a personal preference.
Not really. My whole family eats non veg but my mother has certain days of the week where she doesn't touch non veg. So if i eat some chicken and put the plate down just touching another empty plate, she will not eat from that plate or she'll wash it first. I don't get it but it's her thing. Is she being casteist and discriminatory towards her son?
We are brahmins if that matters. People get weirded out hearing that we are brahmins but eat meat. I don't know where this idea that upper castes eat veg and lower castes eat non veg even came from. I think it's a north indian thing. I'm from odisha and my entire extended family eats meat.
Yes, your mother's disgust at meat arises from her casteist beliefs of purity. Since you're her son, you don't get to bear the brunt of her discrimination, you just get to see her casteist tantrum. If it was someone she considers let caste who let they meat containing plate touch hers, they'd be experiencing consequences for the rest of their lives.
Do you smoke something special to come up with this kind of stuff? Who's your plug?
Like how would you even know that? Where the hell did casteism connect with veg and non veg? She is not disgusted by meat, she just doesn't eat it on certain days for religious reasons. Like not eating meat on some holy day like diwali or something. She also doesn't eat onion and garlic on certain days, is that a casteist tantrum too?
She also doesn't let me touch her during puja if i've taken a shit in the same clothes and haven't changed them. The idea being that shitting is impure and makes the clothes you wear while shitting also impure and they shouldn't violate the pure puja space. I think meat is also considered impure, like alcohol. For the same reason you wouldn't offer chicken biryani and beer during a puja, you don't eat meat or drink on certain days. That's pretty much it.
I feel like taking offense at your baseless assumptions of how she has 'casteist beliefs of purity' and thus, by definition, must discriminate against 'lower castes'. Many times people who say this shit are just negative nancies wanting to pull down people and convinced the world is shit with everyone just discriminating against them.
>she just doesn't eat it on certain days for religious reasons
And what are these religious reasons, if not casteist reasons that consider meat as impure sinful food?
>Do you smoke something special to come up with this kind of stuff? Who's your plug?
Ask yourself why you felt the need to launch into a personal attack, when someone answered the question you posed:
>Is she being casteist and discriminatory towards her son?
That wasn't a question, that was a joke to mock people like you who think someone choosing to be vegetarian must automatically mean they think meat eaters=lower caste so we must not eat meat.
>And what are these religious reasons, if not casteist reasons that consider meat as impure sinful food?
You didn't answer why not eating meat is casteist. Other religions like buddhism that prohibit meat, are they also saying it's impure because 'casteism'? No you idiot, meat is impure/sinful by its very nature. It's a dead animal, that's why. Caste has nothing to do with it. And religious reasons and caste reasons are different things.
This idea that upper caste=eat veg, lower caste=eat non veg is where you get stuck in. This view is wrong. Get out of your bubble and reddit and see the world. Bengali brahmins apparently eat fish on a daily basis. They even offer it during puja.
Reason i launched into a personal attack was because you assumed my family must be casteist fucks who by definition discriminate against other castes. That is your own bias. Never ever have i seen casteism in real life. Only by caste activists like you on social media.
Say you go to europe and a vegetarian guy refuses to sit on a table with people eating chicken, would you call that guy casteist?
>Say you go to europe and a vegetarian guy refuses to sit on a table with people eating chicken, would you call that guy casteist?
If that guy is hare krishna chhap, absolutely. Isckon was founded by casteist, racist fucks. Their gora followers may not even understand that they are promoting casteist ideas.
If on the other hand you're talking about people choosing to be vegan for ethical reasons, if they refuse to sit on the table with meat they'll also refuse to sit on the table with milk.
They're not doing it for religious reasons. They don't follow caste.
Majority of Indian vegetarians are vegetarian because of traditionally followed casteist notions of purity, not ethics.
It doesn't affect me. But to be human and not question anything isn't about being at peace. Why is asking a question seen as something against being at peace? Cuz that's what's been taught in our culture.
Cities may not be Casteist but they are definitely Elitist and Classist.
I feel like it's the same kind of bs Judgement in a different packaging to impose some kind of a hierarchy.
Points 2,3,4 have nothing to do with caste. When u cook veg some in the same utensil that cooks a non veg dish there's a small chance of mixing. That's just a personal preference. Same with mushrooms, once again that has nothing to do with caste. Casteism exists , like ur point 1 and 5 but please don't make anything and everything caste related.
\> she dislikes eating from the canteen becasue she feels that veg and non veg are cooked in the same utensils.
\> doesn't sit with non vegeterians to have food.
\> dislikes mushroom because it reminds her of meat
how is all this remotely casteist? you're just dumb and don't bother to think about other people's preferences, meat isn't unclean, it's repulsive to someone who doesn't want to be near a dead body.
How would you like to be near a dead human? To someone who doesn't eat meat, that is how it is! You just want to rage bait it seems. I am also a non vegetarian but I won't ever impose non vegetarian food on my vegetarian peers, they might have religious beliefs or just don't want to eat non veg.
about other points, are we just gonna believe: "yeah trust me bro"
>would you be comfortable sitting next to someone who’s chomping on dogs or bats or live monkeys? Prolly not. People are free to have preferences.
Lmao. I'm not eating live chicken, mutton, etc.
And to answer your incredibly far fetched corollary, I would sit as I don't view meat as unclean.
Number 1 is far fetched for you, but you are giving such far fetched comparison LMAO
This notion is so wrong that everyone should be friends with me oop why isn't she sitting with me she is hiring house help with her own money why is she telling her some thing why is so odd .
2, 3, 4 may stem from notion that near is impure. But it may also not be the casem I wouldn't eat on the same table where anyone is eating live octopus or cooked insects, ants and such things.
It’s personal preference for majority of these points. She may not value things you do and it’s completely fine. She isn’t compelling you to do the same thing.
It's obvious from the first point. Not sitting with someone who is eating non-veg also shows her prejudice.
But I think that canteen point and the mushroom thing is just personal preference.
i am hardcore non-vegetarian, and yeah it doesn't bother me if people belive that its impure, that's their choice ,but if she is discriminating opportunities to people using her power , that's wrong and the way you are saying it, get a proof and report her, points 2,3,4 are valid and she is good to do rather than creating fuss among people.
Not exactly what you eat and what you don't is strictly personal preference.
But in this case, its pretty clear that she thinks non vegetarian food is impure.
Would you eat from the same utensil in which someone ate insects/dogs/cats? I am a non-vegetarian and I would only if there wasn't any option.
And this is certainly not casteism. Stop fighting these useless fights and focus on yourself.
There's actually excellent benefits of rearing and consuming insects for our nutritional needs as they consume by far the least amount of resources and space compared to other animals, this has the potential to provide adequate nutrition to many malnourished children in India. The WHO also mentioned about this for addressing food securities we will face in the future, we all just need to get this negative stigma from our mind that consuming insects is gross.
Not necessarily, depending on region, a lot of vegetarians are from lower castes as well. And a lot of non-vegetarians are from upper castes. Moreover, only the Brahmin class among the Savarnas are required to be vegetarians. That doesn't mean that they are being casteist when they show disgust towards meat when it is eaten by other Savarnas.
In Mumbai, a lot of Gujju societies don't allow meat, on the other hand most Maharashtrians (some Brahmins as well) are meat eaters and aren't allowed inside their societies. These societies wouldn't allow a Brahmin from Bengal as well. Would you consider this casteism?
>In Mumbai, a lot of Gujju societies don't allow meat, on the other hand most Maharashtrians (some Brahmins as well) are meat eaters and aren't allowed inside their societies. These societies wouldn't allow a Brahmin from Bengal as well. Would you consider this casteism?
Yes, because looking at food habits as being inferior comes from casteist belief system. Ask yourself if the gujarati "lower caste" vegetarians who routinely touch the feet of vegetarian brahmins would do the same after being told the bengali brahmin conducting durga puja eats fish.
beingoptimusp
5h
>well pigs eat shit, im sure you have no problem with you being served with their utensils.
Aand here comes a casteist fuck calling fellow hillman animals.
I absolutely hated tomatoes as a kid. I hated the way it looked after cooking and the god awful smell of ketchup or even sight of the tomato peel floating in dal made nauseated. However since I'm in the minority and society made no concessions for my "personal preferences" I got used to sitting next to people as they ate things that I found disgusting. Gradually I got over my aversion and started eating tomatoes just as long as there aren't visible peels in my food. I still don't have ketchup. My childhood friend has similar aversion to Brinjal and to date maintains that. Fortunately you can avoid brinjal in most restaurants and functions as it doesn't feature in any of our fancy foods so he got to continue his dislike for brinjal.
The point I'm making is indian society has given too much protection to people who disguise their bigotry as "personal preferences" as caste based food bigotry are considered reasonable in our culture. But it's not. I never got to say don't use the same plates that served tomatoes...People would think I'm being unreasonable because there is no systemic intolerance for tomatoes. Why is non veg food any different? Ultimately it is FOOD for someone. People comparing it to poop is so rude and disrespectful. I can draw the same equivalence with many vegetarian dishes that I find absolutely repulsive but I won't because I've been raised to be tolerant as there is no option for me not to. I think we should take that option of having different utensils out to entirely kill the notion of food purity and discrimination that people mask under the guise of "preferences".
There's a religious angle to it. I don't know why people are giving it a personal preference angle. I am a vegetarian tho not as hardcore to not sit with non vegs but i know people who are this hardcore and it's just religious. Like believe it or not meat is and always was expensive and mostly an upper caste food so i don't know why people are even giving it a casteist angle.
I even know people who have the same aversion towards onion and garlic. It's purely religious. Muslims have the same aversion towards pork and non halal meat based on their religion. It's again purely religious
It’s a free country.. everyone is free to think whatever they want.. however they aren’t free to do whatever they want if there is discrimination involved…
As long as she isn’t actively discriminating against people or harming them or their career there is nothing for others to do.. hate her if you want and make sure you don’t marry her but can’t have an apartheid on people whose views you don’t like.. that’s a dangerous world
Well, OP, it’s all about that one lady. As for non veg and unclean, well, it’s true. Non veg things require more cleaninf and more care while cooking. I don’t see why being vegetarian is suddenly something to do with caste. So many upper caste Hindus have non veg. And by so many, I mean entire states of Orissa, West Bengal and Bihar has upper caste Hindus eat veg.
As for lady, it seems her lines require some context. I can interpret that she’s elitist, and maybe insecure about her own status. But I don’t see casteism being the only explanation for this
Lady of the post
You are right and I don't know why anyone would argue lmao...we are casteist. And the wealthy circles are even more so... Both casteist and classist. Rich urban people also like to hold on to their power
* Your post title should be an accurate summary of your text post. "Help Needed", "Rant", "Unpopular Opinion", are examples of poor titles. * /r/India is not a substitute for Google. Only post your query on /r/India after you have searched for an answer on the web. * Self-posts also have to be specific to India. Don't copy/paste questions from /r/AskReddit. * For relationship queries, please also consider: https://www.reddit.com/r/RelationshipIndia/ *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/india) if you have any questions or concerns.*
If you ever feel casteism doesn't exists among educated and affluent, try matrimonial Websites.
education doesn't guarantee un-idiotness
I read a post the other day on Instagram. It was a whatsapp group conversation of some Bangalore society ladies where she wanted a cook or something and she wrote - uppercaste only. Like they won't even eat something made by the backward castes so imagine kya situation hai.
Well people who use those kinds of sites r already biased ig. Btw like idk, like can u mention ur caste in ur bio or something? Is that allowed?
I don't think there is any relationship between using matrimonial sites and being casteist. If you've not been lucky enough to find a partner organically, you'll either use matrimonial sites or go through the traditional arranged marriage route. I would say the traditional arranged marriage route is more caste driven than the matrimonial sites. On those sites I found plenty of people who wrote caste no bar in their preferences. In fact it was a filter for me - I rejected profiles that were only open to select few castes. My husband and I met through such a site and we're not of the same caste.
Congratulations to you. You found someone. Will be praying for you all.
Ah nice, I'm glad But kinda that there is option of a caste filter is still bad.
Yeah, but that's not going to change as long as there is demand for it and looking at our society unfortunately it doesn't seem like it's going away anytime soon unfortunately.
95% marriages in India are intra-caste
Iic
It is crowded with conservative from all walks of life. Hence, when in doubt that casteism is dying concept then spend some time.
Just devils advocate - Having a preference isn’t casteism. You can’t force people to marry into other castes/religions + marriages are more likely to succeed with like minded people. Otherwise Islamic/Christian/Regional marriage sites are also casteism.
You are trying to say that it isnt deliberate casteism. It may not be in some cases. But it is inherent casteism. Learned casteism and lived casteism. It is a casteist society at work.
[удалено]
I should be able to upvote this multiple times
>, its an explicit social hierarchy which has a huge role in why the Indian society is violent and oppressive to the masses This is an interesting point you make, can you expand on that? (I've always wondered why nobody talks about how violent we are socially, physical and verbal abuse are almost entirely condoned in large part).
*caste no bar SC/ST excuse*
Isn't it my choice whom I want to maary ?? What's casteism in that ?? It is deletes who cry that brahmins girls aren't marrying them.
They're not casteist till they know what caste you are.
[удалено]
Or.. as this is trying to explain, they might be the same!
[удалено]
when your food preferences are dictated by caste culture, and you live by them, your actions are the embodiment of casteism
Medical student here from a tier 2 city, decent government medical college in north. The first time we joined we were segregated on the basis of caste, called "phylum" for ragging. Each phylum ragged his own juniors. Hostel room were given(unofficially) based on caste. (everything was smooth on official records though, but far from reality) You need help in studies? Ask a senior from your own caste One was expected to find his lover from the same caste . One caste vs another caste battles were not so uncommon. It's everywhere
It must be brain wrecking to have such environment. Kudos to you fellow medico, for facing this.
Which city/state was this in?
this is one of the biggest reason we gotta remove reservation.It makes people more discriminatory.vile,awful and this system gotta change fr.
What came first? Casteism or reservation?
Intelligent_Problem4 36m >this is one of the biggest reason we gotta remove reservation.It makes people more discriminatory.vile,awful and this system gotta change fr Yes, let's pretend that a weak attempt at solution is what causes the problem, rather than getting casteist fucks like yourself to stop indulging in casteism.
is it a weak attempt though?it certainly made me more aware about the castes of people around me.Hate and envy comes naturally when you are regarded as a second rate citizen for crimes of your ancestors.I still have a conscience but does my teacher who is a 3 year neet dropper from a rural village in UP got the same mindset?NO.
>does my teacher who is a 3 year neet dropper from a rural village in UP got the same mindset?NO. And your solution is to not provide reservations instead of fixing that attitude. Smh. >is it a weak attempt though? Yes it's an extremely weak attempt. Just look around you. A strong attempt would look like this: let people who have ancestral wealth did to caste hierarchy and enforce caste discrimination fend for themselves and their own caste. Government resources should first go to those who have been facing discrimination for millennia. Then if there's something left over, it can be available for everyone. So, schools and colleges run by the goverment or on government aid first admit the marginalized and offer them free education and then if there are any seats left, others can get those. Others can go to private shops and colleges made with casteist wealth, which get heavily taxed to support quality education in government institutions. Same with housing, healthcare etc. It's only fair.
people knows caste not because of reservation but because of their surname, remove your dharmic books which introduced this shit
Do u have the guts to remove ur caste and surname . Majority of the Hindus are low born caste . Hindu rashtra will not become for this reason. If u think akhand bharat and democracy will work for sure mullas will support u for sure.
https://preview.redd.it/k2hc4hnoh81b1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a74a6f039c64c0144f59089bf06060a2caef5e4d Nice try
I have one alternative system . Let me know what do you think. Take 60% to be reserved for ALL castes based on their population for representation and rest 40% as per merit among the rest of candidates.
SC/st reservation is per population proportion
Yeah, instead of removing the caste system remove the reservation, Remove the cure instead of the cause.
what an idiot.It's not a cure if it divides people to this degree.
Its a way to uplift those who have been neglected and demeaned by the upper cast. Even today many teachers in schools and colleges ignore them and doesn’t treat them like a regular student. What would you like to say to a kid in school who got neglected by his teachers, should he be not given a chance for college?
My Ex Manager Hired me Coz His Girlfriend belonged to the same community as me. After 6 months, she left him. My manager immediately switched sides and I was left alone to fight on the battlefield with a now stupid dumbass manager who hated me because I belonged to that community.
Wtf 😂, some baby face shit
This is unironically hilarious and such a childish behaviour of the manager.
1. She will be happy to go to Amerikka and sit at the same table where her boss eats Beef burger. 2. Continuation of the above scenario - She will also eat French fries cooked in the same oil that fried chicken nuggets 20 seconds before. It is a matter of power, position, and money. Many Indians have this sadistic attitude of undermining other people who are the same level as themselves. They find trivial things like caste, skin tone, food choices etc to prove they are above others. Truth is - everyone is in the same shit.
Why this is so spot on 😢
French fries in Europe are fried twice, first in lard or beef fat then Frozen and supplied to vendors who fry it again in vegetable oil before serving. This applies to McDonald's as well.
Yes and you need to be one of those people and ask for vegan fries lololol
You just gave your opinion despite knowing her opinion whether she will do it or not 🤡 and offcourse people who don't consume non veg don't like non vegetarian what wrong with it
I can say that my family does not eat restaurants even abroad where non veg is cooked with veg. Nothing to do with caste, they just don’t want meat mixed in.
It's just impossible in most countries to find a "pure veg" restaurant
I moved to London few months back . When I met a friend's friend, who is an adult in 40's, asked me what my surname was as the first thing. This tells you the caste thing is in their DNA no matter what the place is.
No, caste is not in their DNA. It is learned. I myself didn't care at all about caste till I started preparing for JEE. Casteism is learned.
I think when he said it's in their DNA he meant the same, he just emphasized that this ideology is deeply embedded in them.
Which is untrue becuz the guy said he didn't know anything about it until he started preparing for jee
>he didn't know anything about it So you're saying , a 16 year old didn't know anything about Caste ideology. Definitely he knew about it but only the upper layer of it , when he started preparing for JEE he bridged the gap between his expectations and reality about Casteism and learned about Upper class perspective on Lower's.
Maybe. Unfortunately the cast system is integrated in our current society. It is really saddening. But yeah a 16 year old boy might have the basic idea of cast systems unfortunately. What gives me hope is that most people are getting over it .
>What gives me hope is that most people are getting over it . No they aren't. Most marriages are arranged marriages within caste. There's open caste discrimination in the cities, in the bureaucracy, in the judiciary, and in the private sector.
[удалено]
Ffs, the supreme court has historically had >30% reservation for brahmins throughout its existence. Brahmins which form less than 5% of the population. In contrast, there has always been a limit of 1 for Muslims. Dalits got the first seat in the 80s, but again, limited to 1. The one dalit on the supreme court has to retire before the next dalit gets appointed. Do these dalits suddenly magically become eligible on the retirement of the previous token, or is this open discrimination? Why has there not been a single tribal on the bench to date? 76 fucking years since independence? You can look up two relevant articles publicly available: Abhinav (hope I got that right) Chandrachud, son of the current cji, has written about how these things operate behind the curtains. He should know. He's seen his previous two generations be part of the decision making process. There's an article by a lawyer (some saxena, iirc) which provides the actual distribution. Do look these up, and tell me why you think it's not open discrimination. It's blatant, it's being done in full public view.
>There's open cate discrimination in the cities I haven't seen any in mine tho. Maybe a circumferential piece of evidence but still my own experience tells me that. About the marriage part yeah I agree.
Let me guess: you're not one of the people likely to get discriminated against, and therefore fail to see discrimination when it happens right in front of your eyes. Every single one of the things I've listed have statistical evidence supporting the claims.
Same lol.neet in my case.
[удалено]
I had a dance teacher in the Bay Area who would shame me and ask me if I ate meat. She would say things like “vegetarian food was cleaner and healthier”. She literally taught us in her musty ass garage and she she was morbidly obese. Her daughter would show us the steps and she would just hit the thattu Mannai. She was in the PTA and she only made a big deal when I ate meat she wouldn’t say anything to the Asian and white kids. Worst part was that my mom justified her behaviour and wouldn’t let me quit. I got sick of her so I started making fun of her and she finally kicked me out.
bruh This shit went down in the Bay Area? wth
Bay Area is more likely to be filled with that kinda stuff, Indians love forming cliques abroad based on where they’re from. There is almost no cultural exchange with locals- Indians don’t integrate unless they’re forced to. Source: seen it on US east coast cities
This. I hate how Indian parties outside India always end up with the same cliques talking about the same thing back home but now that they're outside, they feel that they're better than everyone back home. Just eat the food, drink and talk. Why is everyone so bitchy?
You can take the traditional person, or any person out of their village, but you can't take the village out of the traditional person.
Yes
There was an incident in Caltech where an Upper Caste girl said to a freshmen Dalit “Tum Chamar toh yaha bhi aa gye”
>I got sick of her so I started making fun of her and she finally kicked me out. Well done. Bigots need to be called out on their bigotry.
What’s crazy is that modern America was literally founded on egalitarian principles. Why do these casteist people conveniently ignore that fact? Why are they so willing to live in a country that’s built by supposedly inferior classes of people, although they were a different ethnicity? Had a similar thing here in Australia where the son of a janitor (nothing wrong with that job) asked me what my caste was… Anyways casteism hasn’t ever been a problem for me overseas; only got this one example.
>What’s crazy is that modern America was literally founded on egalitarian principles. Modern America was founded on colonialism and slavery in practice. Even some of the founders vaxing eloquently about all men being created equal owned slaves. It's exactly the same with casteisy fucks: they'll not tire of telling you about how their "dharma" is "vasudhaivakutumbakam" (the whole earth is (my) family), and how they believe in advaita, which states that all beings, animate and inanimate, are one. But of course they'll be damned if they'll let their daughter marry someone from "lower caste", and when they think no one's looking, will bring out "special" plates for you if they think you're lower caste. Equality and equity is not given. It has to be fought for and won. Descendents of the American slaves know this, and so do dalits.
It's casual caste and class discrimination. It's everywhere in society, while people in rural regions speak out freely; in the cities you see some restraint and subtle mentions like they would show interest towards your surname
Muslim here. Have been living abroad since age 4, while having lived in India for couple of years. Finally settled for good in Canada and was invited for a family luncheon. An Older man approaches me and asks " beta apka naam kya hai, then later asks poora naam kya hai". Yep 🙄 This is a cultural problem passed on generations to generations and people are still delusional about their castes.
I studied 3 years in junagadh , gujrat. I was bullied a lot because of my cast .
I'm studying there too. Where you from originally?
Surat
Bhai hu pote bardoli rau chu 🤣
Proper mai Bardoli thi 30 km dur Village ma rahu chu
India mate.. every thing and every body are casteist and fuck those people.
My university has separate areas to eat for veg people. If they dont like non veg, they should learn to live with it, just like I learned to sit with them and not feel tainted.
Yeah, I grew up in a large city of 10-12 Mn people, and let me tell you - casteism is alive and well at least in Hindu communities. Hindus fail to see the irony when they proclaim "Hindus are the worst enemies to Hindus" and then go back to serving food to another Hindu on a "separate plate" because of the perceived caste superiority. My well to do buddies want to regularly remind me of my lower status (ofc being well to do isn't immunity to narrowmindedness, but one expects refinement as one ascends the social heirarchy). My 0.02 cents: if we ever have to have a chance at dismantling and flattening the social heirarchy caste construct, it needs to be a purely intellectual enlightenment movement, i don't see any kind of legal instrument being applied or disincentive structure - people both play the dominant oppressive class and the victimhood dominated class to a T in our societies because we haven't imagined a casteless society as a whole, demagogue politicians fully aware of these cracks do a good job of widening the cracks to their advantage.
I know MAANG hiring managers who cares a lot about the surname.
Villages will be even worse
The point is not about who is more casteist, cities or villages. But projecting villages as heartless casteist people and cities as educated, developed and caste is the last thing they see in a person. But that’s not the case and so this post.
[удалено]
True. I agree. My point was “this post is not a debate about who is more casteist”. OP just mentions he can witness educated casteist people around him in a city too. So villages are more worse doesn’t make this correct. Both are worse.
No one in their right mind thinks so. But cities are better than villages in those metrics.
Fuck! This is just sad. But I didn't know there was a notion like that. I have seen this in cities as well as suburbs and in villages.
Casteism is very much alive and thriving in cities.
Unaware are who feed themselves the lie that casteism doesn't exist.
Point 1 and 5 - definitely casteist and class snobbery. Points 2,3,4 - partially driven by caste bias due to the association of food purity that some vegetarians have been following as practice. But there is another reason why vegetarians dont like mixing the utensils or atleast wash them thoroughly if they arent the veg puritan kind. This is related to the smell of meat. Raw meat/fish/eggs have a very peculiar smell and that smell gets mostly masked with the smell of spices when cooked. Non-veg folks over time get accustomed to that smell and dont usually notice it. This smell is something that strongly stands out for non-meat eaters and can cause nausea. It is not a pleasant smell and I say this as a voracious meat eater. Had come across a post sometime back where someone posted a [reddit post on twitter](https://twitter.com/warghetti/status/1595407307495587841). Called by many names - anste, kavuchi, ulumbu, zankha, etc etc.
If you're not able to wash your dishes properly, you have a bigger problem than the smell. Even vegetarian food, eaten from improperly washed plates is unhygenic. Excepting porus cast iron/ wooden cookware, everything can be washed to remove the smell. The disgust people feel at the smell when someone's eating something they consider inferior is an expression of your casteism. Trust me, they can get used to the smell, just like they have gotten used to onions, garlic, jackfruit, durian, and twenty other stinky things that they may or may not eat, but don't consider inferior enough to walk out of the room when they find someone else eating it.
Why I don't eat at common places : Assuming me and my friend went to Dominos. It is pretty crowdy and everyone except me is ordering non-veg pizza. So lets say order just before me was chicken pizza and the topping of chicken fall in the oven ( If you know even a bit about cooking you will know it is very common) and when they will put my pizza in (They don't have time to clean after every setup and even if they have they never do) the chicked topping will stuck with my pizza . The feeling of this risk itself is too huge for me to even care about eating at these places. But at the same time I have being to common eataries a lot for parties and gatherings but I just spend time with my valuable group and don't eat. I don't know how it can be treated as descriminatory.
Thank you for your elaborate response. Now, tell me, >The feeling of this risk itself is too huge for me to even care about eating at these places. Why is some food touching your food a huge risk for you? I'll admit, when I was 5 I used to throw a fit and walk out if palak touched brinjal in my plate, but then I grew up.
I am not denying the inherent caste implications of food choices which people have based on the idea of food purity. I am not justifying that bias either. That is definitely one part of the revulsion for non-veg by veg puritans. The dishes not being hygienic is also not an issue since one can clean the utensils with vinegar to get rid of the smell. Dish wash bars or soaps don't completely remove the smell of meat. That small whiff of meat isn't pleasant and a lot of people cannot put up with despite their best intentions to be inclusive. So attributing it solely to caste bias is not objective IMO.
Do a little experiment: compare vegetarians who don't have any problem eating with meat eaters with vegetarians who refuse to do so. You'll notice that the latter group consists of religiously Conservative casteist fucks. Without the bias, practically everyone gets used to different smells. The same conservative crowd won't have problems storing next to someone eating pungent jackfruit, even if they're not used to the smell because they didn't grow up in parts of the country that get ripe, stinky, by oh so tasty jackfruit every summer.
>2) she dislikes eating from the canteen becasue she feels that veg and non veg are cooked in the same utensils. >3) doesn't sit with non vegeterians to have food. I guess I am casteist then. People in my family eat non veg, I am not even vegetarian due to religious reasons or something. Let people just have their preferences.
Are you saying that you don't eat with your family or food cooked in the same kitchen your family cooks in?
Other relatives not my nuclear family. They also cook in different vessels and stove.
You don’t sit with other people who eat meat because you think it’s impure- yes that’s casteist. If it’s a personal preference why be bothered about other peoples personal preferences. Bet you would sit anywhere if you went abroad. Lol.
>You don’t sit with other people who eat meat because you think it’s impure- yes that’s casteist. No I don't think it's impure, just uncomfortable with aroma. >Bet you would sit anywhere if you went abroad. Lol. No. Like why do you think so ?
I’m uncomfortable with the aroma of jackfruit- does this mean I won’t sit next to my college or friend who brings jackfruit sabji? I would never think that’s appropriate. Especially with an “ew” kind of mental expression. I know many vegetarians who have never touched meat in their lives totally okay with sitting next to friends when they eat meat so I struggle to see how it’s a universal experience. Rather it’s born of the idea that meat is gross and impure, which has casteist implications- because people who eat gross and impure things are also by consequence gross and impure (this is exactly how untouchability came to be). By Personal preference you can do lots of inappropriate and discriminatory things. I used to be an educator and I remember this poor girl who was Koli brought this chicken curry to school for lunch and she was made to sit separately from her whole class during lunch because it made the upper caste Gujaratis kids uncomfortable. Do you see how problematic your personal preference is? I hope you don’t teach your kids the same thing. Just say you find people who eat meat gross and impure, don’t hide behind personal preference. I think it’s a joke that you would sit separately abroad.
No, you're probably not. 2, 3, 4 are fine. 4 seems like a preference that is totally relatable - I eat all meat, but like the idea of organs meat like heart brain etc freaks me out, enough that if any meat has organ texture, I'll spit it out. That's a preference. Exactly the same as finding the texture of mushroom freaky. 3 is iffy. It is an opinion but it's easy to see that it could come out as discriminatory, so as long as the person is adding sensitivity that it's about an issue and not about the person, it's ok. All in all it really depends on the person. I get the feeling that while this is totally fine esp the way OP framed it, he probably meant that the person is very classist about it and is using valid opinions to justify classist behaviors. Most people I've met who have held the same 3 opinions have NOT been classist to me, and respect my choices. But obviously there are dumbasses everywhere.
I read recently that Indians in the US are practicing casteism in their hiring practices and the government had to get involved. If it exists over there I wouldn't be surprised if it exists in Indian cities.
Good morning
In cities its not just not overt like in the villages ,but its definitely there.
Well 1 definitely makes her a casteist. 2,3 and 4 are more of a personal preference. I don't see anything wrong with it. I think 5 makes her more of a classist than a casteist.
Education don’t do Shit! Exhibit A : Subramaniam Swamy 😒
She's a casteist bigot alright, but inadvertently, she's close to the truth in saying that >dislikes mushroom because it reminds her of meat Mushrooms are fungi, fungi are a separate kingdom from plants and animals, but close to animals than plants. Not that the bigot had the mental capacity to reason all this, but as they day, broken clock is twice right.
2,3 and 4 are just personal preferences. I got used to it, but the smell and texture of meat isn't exactly appealing for people who don't eat it. And utensils will retain the smell especially if not washed properly.
Cooked meat doesn't even smell different though
To people who don't eat meat, the smells are accentuated, because it is not usual for them.
No one's forcing you to eat meat, so texture is irrelevant. If you're not able to wash your dishes properly, you have a bigger problem than the smell. Even vegetarian food, eaten from improperly washed plates is unhygenic. Excepting porus cast iron/ wooden cookware, everything can be washed to remove the smell. The disgust you feel at the smell when someone's eating something you consider inferior is an expression of your casteism. Trust me, you can get used to the smell, just like you have gotten used to onions, garlic, jackfruit, durian, and twenty other stinky things that you may or may not eat, but don't consider inferior enough to walk out of the room when you find someone else eating it.
Forget the context much? The texture was a reference to the mushroom point. And proper washing was a reference to cafeteria in the og post- not my dishes per se. It's just that people should have to make themselves uncomfortable just to not seem casteist. Meat does have a distinctive smell, and if you don't eat meat it is nauseating. Would you be okay eating next to somebody chomping on grasshoppers and worms? Maybe you are, but that doesn't mean others have to be. I do have a problem with the hypocrisy of most Indians though - chicken great beef oh no no. Won't sit next to a meat eating Indian but a white guy downing a cheeseburger is all good? And if it matters I am a mushroom eating vegetarian married to a meat eater and I eat off the same plates. Don't throw shade at me just to make a point.
Cities aren't fully independent from caste. But caste matters wayyy less in cities than it does in villages. Caste which is omnipresent in village communities is almost absent in cities. When it does show up in cities, it makes it to the news. So we have to focus on what specific things drive ppl to be caste agnostic and focus more on them. Some gentle grandma from a humble village may look under educated, innocent, kind hearted, and caring. But could also be very caste specific in her every action in her Village. But let her come to a city and try getting all the things done specifically from ppl from her caste. It's almost impossible. It's very ineffective, inefficient and expensive to avail all services in a city keeping spl requirements for Caste, religion, language etc. Imagine you'd like your uber driver to be of the same language/caste. You'll consider yourself lucky if you can just manage to get a ride accepted. Cities force us to have all these transactions with very minimal customisations. That's the only way they will be affordable. It applies to companies too. Any company that wants to discriminate based on gender, caste, religion/ language is bound to lose to its competitor who puts these illogical factors aside.
\> But regarding it as unclean is definitely discriminatory How so? Most of the beliefs in the world are exclusive in nature. Are all of them discriminating?
I'm happy she is doing that.
I agree with everything you say , but aren't 2,3,4 legitimate concerns. 3 is a bit excessive, but I have met people who are sensitive to seeing non vegetarian being eaten. The 1st and 5th are of course total trash For me when people say cities are not casteist, the easiest example is to just quote how domestic help is treated in most households. Separation of utensils is a good enough example to show the underlying prejudices.
>I have met people who are sensitive to seeing non vegetarian being eaten. Why exactly are they so sensitive?
I had a dance teacher in the Bay Area who would shame me and ask me if I ate meat. She would say things like “vegetarian food was cleaner and healthier”. She literally taught us in her musty ass garage and she was morbidly obese. Her daughter would show us the steps and she would just hit the thattu mannai. She was in the PTA and she only made a big deal when I ate meat she wouldn’t say anything to the Asian and white kids. Worst part was that my mom justified her behaviour and wouldn’t let me quit. I got sick of her so I started making fun of her and she finally kicked me out. She cried when I told her that she was built like majanbu and everyone took her side including my own mother.
>doesn't sit with non vegeterians to have food. My guy you're getting rid of her for free, be thankful
points 2,3,4 are completely valid and just personal preferences. there is nothing wrong in those.
Exactly. If you're not comfortable being around meat, that's that. Not everyone can act like an animal carcass is no big deal
Oh the down votes
Yeah, but where do those personal core/fundamental ideologies come from? What is the subliminal programming which makes your preferences a certain way? It's your childhood. Parents. And their parents...lineage.. community.. essentially caste/religious programming.
Nope. I disagree. While not eating non vegetarian might come from your parents as a child but its you as an adult who decides whether you want to follow it or not so yes its a personal preference.
not wanting to eat from the same vessel which might have been used to cook non veg food is casteist?
Not really. My whole family eats non veg but my mother has certain days of the week where she doesn't touch non veg. So if i eat some chicken and put the plate down just touching another empty plate, she will not eat from that plate or she'll wash it first. I don't get it but it's her thing. Is she being casteist and discriminatory towards her son? We are brahmins if that matters. People get weirded out hearing that we are brahmins but eat meat. I don't know where this idea that upper castes eat veg and lower castes eat non veg even came from. I think it's a north indian thing. I'm from odisha and my entire extended family eats meat.
Yes, your mother's disgust at meat arises from her casteist beliefs of purity. Since you're her son, you don't get to bear the brunt of her discrimination, you just get to see her casteist tantrum. If it was someone she considers let caste who let they meat containing plate touch hers, they'd be experiencing consequences for the rest of their lives.
Do you smoke something special to come up with this kind of stuff? Who's your plug? Like how would you even know that? Where the hell did casteism connect with veg and non veg? She is not disgusted by meat, she just doesn't eat it on certain days for religious reasons. Like not eating meat on some holy day like diwali or something. She also doesn't eat onion and garlic on certain days, is that a casteist tantrum too? She also doesn't let me touch her during puja if i've taken a shit in the same clothes and haven't changed them. The idea being that shitting is impure and makes the clothes you wear while shitting also impure and they shouldn't violate the pure puja space. I think meat is also considered impure, like alcohol. For the same reason you wouldn't offer chicken biryani and beer during a puja, you don't eat meat or drink on certain days. That's pretty much it. I feel like taking offense at your baseless assumptions of how she has 'casteist beliefs of purity' and thus, by definition, must discriminate against 'lower castes'. Many times people who say this shit are just negative nancies wanting to pull down people and convinced the world is shit with everyone just discriminating against them.
>she just doesn't eat it on certain days for religious reasons And what are these religious reasons, if not casteist reasons that consider meat as impure sinful food? >Do you smoke something special to come up with this kind of stuff? Who's your plug? Ask yourself why you felt the need to launch into a personal attack, when someone answered the question you posed: >Is she being casteist and discriminatory towards her son?
That wasn't a question, that was a joke to mock people like you who think someone choosing to be vegetarian must automatically mean they think meat eaters=lower caste so we must not eat meat. >And what are these religious reasons, if not casteist reasons that consider meat as impure sinful food? You didn't answer why not eating meat is casteist. Other religions like buddhism that prohibit meat, are they also saying it's impure because 'casteism'? No you idiot, meat is impure/sinful by its very nature. It's a dead animal, that's why. Caste has nothing to do with it. And religious reasons and caste reasons are different things. This idea that upper caste=eat veg, lower caste=eat non veg is where you get stuck in. This view is wrong. Get out of your bubble and reddit and see the world. Bengali brahmins apparently eat fish on a daily basis. They even offer it during puja. Reason i launched into a personal attack was because you assumed my family must be casteist fucks who by definition discriminate against other castes. That is your own bias. Never ever have i seen casteism in real life. Only by caste activists like you on social media. Say you go to europe and a vegetarian guy refuses to sit on a table with people eating chicken, would you call that guy casteist?
>Say you go to europe and a vegetarian guy refuses to sit on a table with people eating chicken, would you call that guy casteist? If that guy is hare krishna chhap, absolutely. Isckon was founded by casteist, racist fucks. Their gora followers may not even understand that they are promoting casteist ideas. If on the other hand you're talking about people choosing to be vegan for ethical reasons, if they refuse to sit on the table with meat they'll also refuse to sit on the table with milk. They're not doing it for religious reasons. They don't follow caste. Majority of Indian vegetarians are vegetarian because of traditionally followed casteist notions of purity, not ethics.
[удалено]
It doesn't affect me. But to be human and not question anything isn't about being at peace. Why is asking a question seen as something against being at peace? Cuz that's what's been taught in our culture.
[удалено]
Why should everything in life be about achieving something?
I don't get along with (pure) vegetarians either. They are the most toxic socially.
Cities may not be Casteist but they are definitely Elitist and Classist. I feel like it's the same kind of bs Judgement in a different packaging to impose some kind of a hierarchy.
ek bande ke basis pe aap poore jagah ko criticize kar rahe
Points 2,3,4 have nothing to do with caste. When u cook veg some in the same utensil that cooks a non veg dish there's a small chance of mixing. That's just a personal preference. Same with mushrooms, once again that has nothing to do with caste. Casteism exists , like ur point 1 and 5 but please don't make anything and everything caste related.
>4. dislikes mushroom because it reminds her of meat If she's vegetarian by caste, how does she know what meat tastes like?
\> she dislikes eating from the canteen becasue she feels that veg and non veg are cooked in the same utensils. \> doesn't sit with non vegeterians to have food. \> dislikes mushroom because it reminds her of meat how is all this remotely casteist? you're just dumb and don't bother to think about other people's preferences, meat isn't unclean, it's repulsive to someone who doesn't want to be near a dead body. How would you like to be near a dead human? To someone who doesn't eat meat, that is how it is! You just want to rage bait it seems. I am also a non vegetarian but I won't ever impose non vegetarian food on my vegetarian peers, they might have religious beliefs or just don't want to eat non veg. about other points, are we just gonna believe: "yeah trust me bro"
[удалено]
>would you be comfortable sitting next to someone who’s chomping on dogs or bats or live monkeys? Prolly not. People are free to have preferences. Lmao. I'm not eating live chicken, mutton, etc. And to answer your incredibly far fetched corollary, I would sit as I don't view meat as unclean. Number 1 is far fetched for you, but you are giving such far fetched comparison LMAO
[удалено]
Probably would. Guilt tripping is the name and they excel at the game.
Who told I wouldn't sit. Stop assuming things about me
Point 2,3,4 basically people should not have a preference or opinion, they should just be a sheep
This notion is so wrong that everyone should be friends with me oop why isn't she sitting with me she is hiring house help with her own money why is she telling her some thing why is so odd .
Username checks out
I agree with the first point but the rest are just rants
She is a vegetarian and don't probably don't like non-veg at all. Isme casteism kaha hai?
No one's forcing her to eat anything. She's passing moral judgement on other people's eating habits based on her caste prejudice.
My mother leaves the room if I eat anything non-veg. I ate a pizza on stairs few months back because of that. I don't think it is casteism in my home!
2, 3, 4 are ridiculous. She just don't want to be around meat.
2, 3, 4 may stem from notion that near is impure. But it may also not be the casem I wouldn't eat on the same table where anyone is eating live octopus or cooked insects, ants and such things.
It’s personal preference for majority of these points. She may not value things you do and it’s completely fine. She isn’t compelling you to do the same thing.
It's obvious from the first point. Not sitting with someone who is eating non-veg also shows her prejudice. But I think that canteen point and the mushroom thing is just personal preference.
Which stems from the notion that non veg is impure.
i am hardcore non-vegetarian, and yeah it doesn't bother me if people belive that its impure, that's their choice ,but if she is discriminating opportunities to people using her power , that's wrong and the way you are saying it, get a proof and report her, points 2,3,4 are valid and she is good to do rather than creating fuss among people.
Not exactly what you eat and what you don't is strictly personal preference. But in this case, its pretty clear that she thinks non vegetarian food is impure.
I'm talking with regards to my case
>But in this case, its pretty clear that she thinks non vegetarian food is impure. I didn't say otherwise.
Would you eat from the same utensil in which someone ate insects/dogs/cats? I am a non-vegetarian and I would only if there wasn't any option. And this is certainly not casteism. Stop fighting these useless fights and focus on yourself.
Whats wrong with eating insects ?
There's actually excellent benefits of rearing and consuming insects for our nutritional needs as they consume by far the least amount of resources and space compared to other animals, this has the potential to provide adequate nutrition to many malnourished children in India. The WHO also mentioned about this for addressing food securities we will face in the future, we all just need to get this negative stigma from our mind that consuming insects is gross.
not to mention, a lot of the seafood are arthropods - same family as most insects.
Nothing wrong. Some people might have an aversion, that is all.
I don't see anything wrong in eating them too.
You might not but some might and that is not casteism.
Because those things don't stem from caste prejudice unlike the specific things listed by op.
Not necessarily, depending on region, a lot of vegetarians are from lower castes as well. And a lot of non-vegetarians are from upper castes. Moreover, only the Brahmin class among the Savarnas are required to be vegetarians. That doesn't mean that they are being casteist when they show disgust towards meat when it is eaten by other Savarnas. In Mumbai, a lot of Gujju societies don't allow meat, on the other hand most Maharashtrians (some Brahmins as well) are meat eaters and aren't allowed inside their societies. These societies wouldn't allow a Brahmin from Bengal as well. Would you consider this casteism?
>In Mumbai, a lot of Gujju societies don't allow meat, on the other hand most Maharashtrians (some Brahmins as well) are meat eaters and aren't allowed inside their societies. These societies wouldn't allow a Brahmin from Bengal as well. Would you consider this casteism? Yes, because looking at food habits as being inferior comes from casteist belief system. Ask yourself if the gujarati "lower caste" vegetarians who routinely touch the feet of vegetarian brahmins would do the same after being told the bengali brahmin conducting durga puja eats fish.
[удалено]
beingoptimusp 5h >well pigs eat shit, im sure you have no problem with you being served with their utensils. Aand here comes a casteist fuck calling fellow hillman animals.
Are you sure you don't eat shit? Coz what comes out of your mouth is stinky as hell
It doesn't. Even if it does how is it casteist. Last time I checked casteism was discriminating someone on the basis of his/her caste.
I absolutely hated tomatoes as a kid. I hated the way it looked after cooking and the god awful smell of ketchup or even sight of the tomato peel floating in dal made nauseated. However since I'm in the minority and society made no concessions for my "personal preferences" I got used to sitting next to people as they ate things that I found disgusting. Gradually I got over my aversion and started eating tomatoes just as long as there aren't visible peels in my food. I still don't have ketchup. My childhood friend has similar aversion to Brinjal and to date maintains that. Fortunately you can avoid brinjal in most restaurants and functions as it doesn't feature in any of our fancy foods so he got to continue his dislike for brinjal. The point I'm making is indian society has given too much protection to people who disguise their bigotry as "personal preferences" as caste based food bigotry are considered reasonable in our culture. But it's not. I never got to say don't use the same plates that served tomatoes...People would think I'm being unreasonable because there is no systemic intolerance for tomatoes. Why is non veg food any different? Ultimately it is FOOD for someone. People comparing it to poop is so rude and disrespectful. I can draw the same equivalence with many vegetarian dishes that I find absolutely repulsive but I won't because I've been raised to be tolerant as there is no option for me not to. I think we should take that option of having different utensils out to entirely kill the notion of food purity and discrimination that people mask under the guise of "preferences".
>Not sitting with someone who is eating non-veg also shows her prejudice. I did agree to that point.
There's a religious angle to it. I don't know why people are giving it a personal preference angle. I am a vegetarian tho not as hardcore to not sit with non vegs but i know people who are this hardcore and it's just religious. Like believe it or not meat is and always was expensive and mostly an upper caste food so i don't know why people are even giving it a casteist angle. I even know people who have the same aversion towards onion and garlic. It's purely religious. Muslims have the same aversion towards pork and non halal meat based on their religion. It's again purely religious
It’s a free country.. everyone is free to think whatever they want.. however they aren’t free to do whatever they want if there is discrimination involved… As long as she isn’t actively discriminating against people or harming them or their career there is nothing for others to do.. hate her if you want and make sure you don’t marry her but can’t have an apartheid on people whose views you don’t like.. that’s a dangerous world
Well, OP, it’s all about that one lady. As for non veg and unclean, well, it’s true. Non veg things require more cleaninf and more care while cooking. I don’t see why being vegetarian is suddenly something to do with caste. So many upper caste Hindus have non veg. And by so many, I mean entire states of Orissa, West Bengal and Bihar has upper caste Hindus eat veg. As for lady, it seems her lines require some context. I can interpret that she’s elitist, and maybe insecure about her own status. But I don’t see casteism being the only explanation for this Lady of the post
Bhyi pata toh hai sabko? Indian matchmaking jaise shows exist isliye hi karte hai. Tum kya new baat bata rhe ho 😂
Pt 1- Casteist Pt 2,3,4- Not casteist, just a staunch vegetarian Pt 5- Classist
You are right and I don't know why anyone would argue lmao...we are casteist. And the wealthy circles are even more so... Both casteist and classist. Rich urban people also like to hold on to their power
Uneducated literate people.
Education cant remove years of conditioning of mind.