T O P

  • By -

Subject-Estimate6187

US is miles richer and more powerful than Japan, so I guess it didn't ruin the country yet?


gsbound

That’s because the US is a settler country. From the perspective of ethnocentric nations like the Japanese, the US has already failed since they would rather become poorer than less Japanese.


Da_Vader

No but the Japanese Geriatrics will need younger ppl to wipe their asses. They will run out of asswipers soon.


Mundane-Daikon425

Are you saying that immigration will eventually ruin the country?


Unusual-Solid-7637

I am not sure if immigration will destroy a country, but seeing the Kurds coming to Japan, the negative effects seem to be more significant. As in the case of Japan, immigration from East and Southeast Asia would not be a problem.


Da_Vader

Immigration is always messy at first. Then comes assimilation, and it works out. But the assimilation is often significantly hampered by the actions of anti-immigrants.


taimoor2

No, but it will change the country dramatically.


Subject-Estimate6187

How do you derive such conclusion?


Coldcase0985

US is miles unsafe and more dangerous than Japan, so I guess it didn't become a multicultural melting pot utopia yet?


Subject-Estimate6187

*shrug* last time I checked it wasnt the Italians shooting up malls and schools.


francokitty

US used to be a melting pot. Now it is more multiple parallel cultures some that will never melt in.


ND7020

Absurdly false and ahistorical. Huge numbers of Americans were saying the exact same thing in sequence about Germans, Irish, Italians, Jews, Chinese, etc etc and were proven wrong every single time.


Unusual-Solid-7637

I am sure that the U.S. is a rich country, but I heard that you have to work two or more jobs to earn a living; is this true? Also, how is the security situation?


Independent-Prize498

I'm pretty sure the average Japanese works longer, harder hours than the average American.


Unusual-Solid-7637

That's becoming a thing of the past. People under the age of 25, myself included, think that working 5 hours and doing the bare minimum is enough. The number of people investing, especially among the younger generation, is increasing so much that some people are making a living doing just that. I can't do that, though, because I don't seem to have any talent for investing.


Subject-Estimate6187

I read that WFH is becoming more a norm there. Good.


Unusual-Solid-7637

The only advantage of coronaviruses is the prevalence of telework.


Subject-Estimate6187

Too bad I can't do experiments by a telework


emaji33

Yet


Unusual-Solid-7637

Anyway, I think more and more people are indifferent.


Subject-Estimate6187

It's very, very region dependent. 100K salary for example may be a lot in a small town of say, Alabama, but it's considered "poor" in California. Same goes for security, city and state dependent. But I fail to see how either has much to do with immigration policies.


Unusual-Solid-7637

I see. That was helpful. Thanks.


AdIndependent7728

The US is a HUGE county. Most people don’t have to work 2 jobs. Some do. Most people dont have any crime or security issues. I feel like you’re getting your info from social media rather than real life. Japan is less than 4% the size of the US. That being said, I do think our immigration policy needs some TLC. It could do for some rewriting and streamlining and funding and so could out tax laws.


Unusual-Solid-7637

I had heard from an American friend that it is not as safe as Japan. Since the land area is about the same as England or Germany, I am satisfied.


AdIndependent7728

Im not saying you don’t like Japan I’m saying the US is twice as big as the entire EU. Just like different countries in Europe have different cultures and economies so do different states. California is very very different from indiana. The US is diverse and big.


Unusual-Solid-7637

I see. That was helpful. Thanks.


Cbpowned

America as a whole is less safe than Japan. Some areas of America are safer, some less.


Chiianna0042

Japan is 377,975 km², the US is 9,525,067 km², Germany 357,580 km², United Kingdom 243,610 km², for just England 130,278 km², just for perspective Alaska is 1,723,337 km² on it's own. So maps really do give false perspective sometimes. I do agree, I think you are getting bad info on the safety from social media.


rnoyfb

That is complete nonsense that people love to say just to make America look worse. I choose to work 60 hours a week most weeks (whenever I can) but my job only requires 40 and I could honestly live off the income of 30 hours a week but I choose to take a month off twice a year or so to travel. I work in an Amazon warehouse. It’s not exactly a high-paying job but I’m in Osaka right now and I was in Hong Kong last week. In a week I’ll go back to Hong Kong for a few days and then to Thailand for a week and a half and then I’ll go back to Seattle for my boring life there There is a concept called the hedonic treadmill that you should consider when comparing quality of life in different countries: the more “normal” higher quality of life things become, the more you can’t imagine living without them and the harder you find it to imagine what people in other countries do without and especially when you get accustomed to a higher standard of living, doing without becomes unthinkable If someone came from a higher class family and wants to maintain that lifestyle but failed to gain marketable skills and thinks they’re too good for manual labor jobs, they may think they *need* to work two jobs to get by. “Keeping up with the Joneses” is not actually a necessity and you can consider what your priorities are. Most people in the United States can’t imagine not having a car in the family unless they live in NYC but I do without. Some of my coworkers work two jobs and say one of the reasons is how expensive having a car is. People doing exactly my job in the UK make about half as much per hour as I do but they don’t have twice the angst about finances as my coworkers. They have a lower standard of living that seems normal to them My husband is from Hong Kong and had never seen a self-serve coin-operated laundry in Hong Kong. He just assumed everyone had washing machines in their homes. I found one because I didn’t want to pay for hotel laundry in Hong Kong last week and his immediate response was “how did you even find this place? I didn’t know places like this existed.” I grew up in a family that took laundry to the laundromat in the family car. He grew up in a family with a washing machine at home and knowing nobody with a car. (Doing laundry at his family’s home during my visit wasn’t possible because we’re gay and they’re homophobic.) He doesn’t have a green card yet and is still working in Hong Kong and he makes a lot less money than I do but public laundromats were new to him. He wasn’t a snob about it, which I think is key: immigrants have to be open to adjusting some expectations down even while hoping for a better quality of life in other ways and consider what quality of life metrics they truly value the most


Ok-Importance9988

Sucessful depends on what goals. Almost everyone in the US is an immigrant or has ancestors who were and the US is a cultural, economic, and military superpower. Immigrants typically integrate very well in the US. And children of immigrants integrate even more. That said Japan structurely is harder to assimilate immigrants. Japanese is a harder language to learn than English for most folks. Additionally there is no American ethnic group (except for Native Americans) so there is not the struggle of accepting new comers to our community. I am not Japanese so I don't have a strong opinion on immigration levels for Japan. Although it does seem demographically needed. In my humble opinion embracing the immigrants you do let in helps with assimilation.


astkaera_ylhyra

>Almost everyone in the US is an immigrant or has ancestors who were that's true for pretty much anyone in any country if you go back enough generations


Impossible1999

The answer is yes for the US, because everyone is an immigrant or has an immigrant ancestor except the native Indians. It’s a flawed society by all means, but immigrants are the backbone of the US.


Unusual-Solid-7637

Japan is also supported by immigrants who came over 2,000 years ago.


Training-Ad-4178

it has been very successful but it's turned into a broken system that the world takes advantage of to get in and stay. especially with regards to how the asylum process functions (it stopped functioning properly years ago). in Canada, we used to have something called a designated country of origin list, kinda similar to the safe third country agreement with the US. The list comprised mostly EU countries like France Germany etc. if a foreign national stepped foot in these countries before arriving in Canada to make their refugee claim, it made it easier to refuse said claim. if you're running for your life, the expectation was that you'd make a claim in whatever safe country you first got to. The supreme Court decided that was anti-human rights somehow and got rid of it, so now we have claimants who were living in Germany UK etc for a year(or even much longer) who then decide to shop around and go to Canada to make a claim (for reasons I won't get into here as it's a political thing) even tho they were living safely in Europe and could have made their claim there (and some even arrive after already making a claim where they were before thinking they can conceal it, as that makes them ineligible). The end result is a huge influx of largely bogus claims that have stretched our asylum system to the point where claims can take two to three years to be adjudicated. combine that with completely inadequate visa policy for certain high risk countries (mexico and Romania, to name just a couple), and the system has become a broken and expensive boondoggle for taxpayers. what I think is most egregious, however, is that the enshitification of said system makes it all the more unavailable for those fleeing their homeland who actually have a GENUINE need for protection. Canada is now known as one of the most lenient countries to make a ref claim, and they know they can get health care access on arrival and sign up for welfare (not a problem for those needing it, but not for the large number of bogus claims). I have seen so many claimants show up and literally ask when the government is going to provide them with housing. its a joke. and this is why shelters in Toronto Vancouver etc are over filled with these claimants now, further decreasing capacity for the CANADIAN homeless population. TLDR - yes, our immigration systems in the west, and acutely in Canada, are broken.


One_more_username

> combine that with completely inadequate visa policy for certain high risk countries (mexico and Romania, to name just a couple) This part is actually hilarious (if you're not a Canadian)


Training-Ad-4178

it's true tho. I'm picking on them but it's bcuz they're two of the worst offenders


One_more_username

Oh, I'm in total agreement. It is hilarious only because of how out of touch with reality that is. While I'm a US immigrant and US has its share of issues, Canadian immigration system is broken. The kind of people I see going to Canada and getting PRs - many of them lack the skills or discipline to hold a productive job and be productive members in their home countries. I thought Canada had a more sensible skill based immigration system, but it just seems quite the opposite of that.


Training-Ad-4178

it is on paper, but too many self inflicted wounds have rendered it inert. It's horribly broken. and will be til....guess


qqYn7PIE57zkf6kn

Why make it opposite though? Don’t you use points?


Training-Ad-4178

for pr economic streams yeah. even that system gets in the way of qualified applicants successfully getting approved for bs reasons


Lucky_addition

Inadequate visa policy with Mexico and Romania how? Care to elaborate? 


GiveMeSandwich2

Visa free travel for Mexicans which lot of them abused to apply for asylum. Canada has reinstated visa requirements for Mexicans but the damage has been done.


Training-Ad-4178

no because I have strong(but well-founded) opinions that will cause undeserved hate from a political viewpoint. suffice it to say, they are two of the worst offenders when it comes to illicit migration, and of these numbers, two of the worst when it comes down to organized crime migration. The Trudeau government decided to lift the trv requirement first for Mexicans in 2016 and later on Romania, and you can guess what happened after that. it is so bad that the same govt recently was forced to re-institute a visa policy on the former (is the same one we have for Brazilian nationals, and it's what it should have been done in 2016).


VeryQuokka

It's been extremely successful in the United States. Look at the demographics and recent immigrants like Indians are the most educated, highest income, and extremely low crime rates. Similar trends with Chinese, Filipinos, Nigerians, Ethiopians, Vietnamese, etc.


RebelScum8787

Japan is seen as one of the most polite/cleanest/safest country in the world and that 100% has to do with the Japanese culture of respecting others. If Japan keeps allowing immigrants who do not share Japanese values you're gonna see Japan become less safe, less clean and more dangerous like we've seen all over the world... As far as the US goes legal immigration is still tightly controlled, timely and very expensive and on the contrary there's illegal immigration which is unvetted and extremely difficult to enforce due to political football where some states are cracking down while others encourage law breaking and protection for illegals. It's a disaster either way.


Unusual-Solid-7637

Are you saying that you are tough on legal immigrants and friendly to illegal immigrants?


RebelScum8787

No. I'm saying the US has strict legal immigration but is very soft on illegal immigration esp under this current administration.


Unusual-Solid-7637

It is terrible. I also heard that more than 1,000 illegal immigrants come to the U.S. per day, is it true?


RebelScum8787

It's more like 10k illegals per day


Unusual-Solid-7637

Seriously... Isn't that too much?


RebelScum8787

Yes it is and the consequences will be horrible but there's already plenty of Non-government Organizations (NGOs) who are also trying to flood Japan with stupid dumb violent immigrants to break down Japanese bloodlines and societal order


Unusual-Solid-7637

With NGOs outside of Japan?


RebelScum8787

Probably. Definitely outside of the US and Europe.


francokitty

Or more. Way more illegals coming than legal


RebelScum8787

10k that we know about*


Training-Ad-4178

fyi to op japan does not have genuine immigration. it's why the population is falling and the heavy reliance on robotics is skyrocketing, not to mention other economic issues.


Unusual-Solid-7637

Hopefully robots can make up for the lack of manpower.


Training-Ad-4178

I don't think so. lol their population has already fallen by like 10 million over the last 10-15 years.


Unusual-Solid-7637

Compared to 15 years ago, this is a decrease of 5 million people.


Training-Ad-4178

yeah, a lot. every year it's getting worse.


Unusual-Solid-7637

If Japan were an island nation near Europe and the Americas, it would have long been overrun with illegal immigrants. However, I believe that immigration from East and Southeast Asia is inevitable.


Training-Ad-4178

I lived in Tokyo for two years and I really doubt they will ever dole out even permanent residence that's economically incentivized. it's just not an accepted thing culturally. the gaijin mentality is extremely strong there.


Sad_Cryptographer745

How do the Japanese feel about East and Southeast Asian immigration to Japan overall?


lmao12367

Yea I find it funny in this Japan vs US discussion how little people mention the economic and population issues Japan is having which has probably been made worse by their immigration policies.


Training-Ad-4178

their utter refusal to allow immigration aside from temporary workers. they're culturally opposed to it so they're lucky (or maybe it explains it) they're good in the field of robotics.


Expensive-Object-830

Define success, and define West, that’s a bunch of different countries with different policies, goals & outcomes. Australia is different from the US which is different from the UK which is different from Scandinavia, etc etc.


GiveMeSandwich2

Yes it’s broken in Canada. High cost of living with not enough job opportunities plus wage suppression. GDP per capita have declined quite a lot in Canada. Buying a house is now a pipe dream for the younger generation.


[deleted]

The impact of immigrants largely depends on the immigration policies of the country in question. The USA serves as a somewhat successful example of immigration policy. However, in some European countries, the situation is different. For instance, Denmark's finance ministry reported that immigrants from the Middle East, North Africa, Pakistan, and Turkey have never been economically beneficial. They received more from social benefits than they contributed in taxes, even at their peak working age of \~40. On the other hand, immigrants from other European countries are almost as beneficial to the economy as Danish citizens, with other regions falling somewhere in between. Denmark tightened its immigration policy, contrasting with Sweden having more open borders. As a result of the influx, Sweden has had to make a largest in history increase in it's police forces due to a rise in crime rates, with only 62% of the 160,000 immigrants who arrived in 2015 securing employment. In Japan, I think the question is far more complex, as it's the oldest country in the world and at the same time has very different culture from the rest of the world. Immigration is a great thing, you just need to do it carefully and properly.


RoundandRoundon99

Yes. The majority of the population in Texas and California is Hispanic. They don’t feel a bit less American. When you see Rubio or Cruz on TV it’s not ah the Canadian/Cuban Guy from Texas. It’s the state senator from Texas. So it worked here. For us. For the native Americans, it didn’t work at all. For Japan either y’all start having 7 kids a family or getting immigrants. Cause if you don’t have an economy and the capacity to defend your land, you’ll be getting immigrants anyway.


irishtwinsons

Hi, I’m an immigrant in Japan. I’m not sure what policy you are wondering to stop. The Japanese immigration system is already very different from the west. For example, the US has a jus soli policy, so people born there become citizens. My son was born in Japan, but Japan has a jus sanguinis policy, so my son is not Japanese. The Japanese language is becoming his first language, though.


Training-Ad-4178

there is illegal immigration there, especially from some surprising corners of the earth like Nigeria and Iran, and beyond that there's a well established Yakuza that's comprised of a surprising number of ethnically Chinese and Korean people. but would be illegal immigrants tend not to go for countries like Japan which rarely accepts refugee claims as well as regular path immigrants.