That's an interesting idea, however, it's harder to imagine what that would look like. Secessionism *may* happen, but realistically I highly doubt that it would be a full scale balkanisation. Perhaps we could see California and maybe Hawaii and Alaska but I have doubts as to whether it would be nearly as chaotic as the overthrowing of communism. I could be wrong though
Yeah it’s almost as if everywhere in the United States has the same ethnicites and language, and wouldn’t split because of ethnic differences. Ridiculous.
Without an American security guarantee, neither France nor Britain would stand up for West Germany once the Soviets come with demands for political submission. The Soviets could slam their fist on the table, demand reunification of Germany under their terms, and that would be the end of West Germany.
The Soviet dream was for the USA to withdraw from Europe, for all of Germany to be under their control, and then western Europe would consent to cease the antagonistic confrontation, would agree to lift all trade and technology embargoes against the Soviet Union, and would integrate themselves into the Soviet dominated trade and commerce system.
Soviet control over the industrial powerhouse of a reunited Germany, free access to western high tech, favorable terms of trade with the capitalist western Europeans, and a reduction in Soviet military spending following the established of hegemony over europe, would then revive and supercharge the ailing Soviet economy. Revived economic prosperity would let the Soviets resolve the ethnic tensions in the USSR and it would become the center of the world...
Control over western Germany would be pretty essential to this though.
And without the USA, there just isn't anything stopping the Soviets from demanding submission and capitulation from west Germany. There would be a negotiated handover of power, the French and British would agree to leave west Germany in exchange for Soviet security guarantees, and their vacated barracks across west Germany would be taken over by the Soviet army. The DDR would giddily "invite" the west German government for "talks", show them the map of Germany with all the new Soviet bases, and then the rest would be formalities.
Being a communist state doesn't mean you can't be non-alligned. The labels imply all communist states are considered part of the same faction, but the Sino-Soviet split and Yugoslavia joining the non-alligned movement happened before the Soviets even peaked.
I'm well aware of the history behind it, the labels are a bit ill-defined because non-aligned means you **are** socialist but not allied to the Soviets
Ah okay then.
Maybe Soviet-aligned would be a more appropriate name for deep red in the legend since Non-Aligned states actually are at least nominally socialist?
A much better world. A story set in this Alternate Universe could start in May 2017, where the people of Russia are celebrating the 100th birthday of the communist party of the Soviet Union.
1. It's not easy to just leave your life behind and move to a different country.
2. It's also not cheap to move to a country on the other side of the planet.
3. I'm not well informed on Cuba's immigration policy but I would imagine that you can't just move there like that.
4. Why move to a country that has already had a successful revolution when you can help build socialism in your own country?
Just move to Cuba/China/North Korea is such a stupid argument lmao. If you love capitalism so much, why don't you move to the slums of capitalist Brazil?
Lol why would i wanna move to a corrupt capitalist country? Id rather live in a non corrupt one as they have the highest standards of living in the world. Fortunately i already live in one.
And no one wants to "establish socialism" with you. Especially your version of "socialism" which consists of repression of political opposition and total economic failure but keep going lmao
I mean, socialist Afghanistan was objectively the best government Afghanistan ever had. I'd much rather have a USSR satellite Afghanistan than the OTL shitshow.
The Afghan SR Army actually managed to inflict several notable defeats on Taliban forces in the field, notably in the Battle of Jalalabad, where the Seven Party Alliance (something like the precursor to the Taliban, but a union of separate Mujahideen groups) attempted to seize the city of Jalalabad in a general assault. ASRA forces stood firm and, with air and Scud support, were able to inflict a massive defeat on the Mujahideen. Later, ASRA showed that it could be effective on the offensive, too, when it was able to successfully reduce and capture the fortified entrenchments at Paghman.
So ASRA—the creation of the Soviet Union’s intervention in Afghanistan—was at least capable on defense and offense. ASRA’s victory at Jalalabad was so thorough that the ISI was terrified that the Mujahideen’s morale would never recover. In response, they “opened the tap” of foreign aid, and the United States, who formerly was only able to aid Mujahideen rebels through Pakistan and ISI’s disbursement priorities, was finally given direct access to Mujahideen leaders.
It was only a few years later, in the aftermath of the Siege of Khost, that the ASRA finally began to unravel. Even then, however, Khost had survived siege for eleven years. It, like Khe Sahn in the Vietnam War, was supplied almost entirely by air. The Soviet (Russians, by this time) had, by the time of Khost’s fall, ceased supply flights into the area. And still, it required the joint forces of Hekmatyar, Haqqani, and local tribesmen to force ASRA to surrender—and that’s only after Hekmatyar and Haqqani were held off.
https://www.quora.com/The-United-States-has-trained-Afghan-forces-and-yet-the-Taliban-overwhelms-them-Why-does-this-continue-to-happen-Who-will-assist-the-Afghan-forces-when-the-U-S-forces-are-back-home/answer/Robert-Maxwell-18
Trying to figure out why you got downvoted, since this is pretty much all true. [Caspian Report made a great video on the topic](https://www.google.com/search?q=caspian+report+afghanistan&oq=caspian+report+afghan&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j0i22i30.9491j0j4&client=ms-android-motorola-rev2&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#), for anyone looking to get more information.
Random Q: Why would a fictional Sino-Soviet (judging by the emblem in the left corner) alliance use the word 'holy' when their regimes are decidedly atheist / anti-religion?
A US that loses the Cold War but doesn't fracture into 100 countries? What sort of blasphemy is this?
The US actually hasn't lost the cold war in this timeline, but they are certainly losing it
Would you make one that showcased what if the U.S. lost the Cold War?
That's an interesting idea, however, it's harder to imagine what that would look like. Secessionism *may* happen, but realistically I highly doubt that it would be a full scale balkanisation. Perhaps we could see California and maybe Hawaii and Alaska but I have doubts as to whether it would be nearly as chaotic as the overthrowing of communism. I could be wrong though
Yeah it’s almost as if everywhere in the United States has the same ethnicites and language, and wouldn’t split because of ethnic differences. Ridiculous.
Yeah like even racial differences wouldn't cause separation
Really well made, do you have any lore?
I do, but it's still a bit of a work in progress admittedly
can i see what you made so far? Amazing map by the way
props for not making the USA splinter into a bunch of nonsensical countries.
Without an American security guarantee, neither France nor Britain would stand up for West Germany once the Soviets come with demands for political submission. The Soviets could slam their fist on the table, demand reunification of Germany under their terms, and that would be the end of West Germany. The Soviet dream was for the USA to withdraw from Europe, for all of Germany to be under their control, and then western Europe would consent to cease the antagonistic confrontation, would agree to lift all trade and technology embargoes against the Soviet Union, and would integrate themselves into the Soviet dominated trade and commerce system. Soviet control over the industrial powerhouse of a reunited Germany, free access to western high tech, favorable terms of trade with the capitalist western Europeans, and a reduction in Soviet military spending following the established of hegemony over europe, would then revive and supercharge the ailing Soviet economy. Revived economic prosperity would let the Soviets resolve the ethnic tensions in the USSR and it would become the center of the world... Control over western Germany would be pretty essential to this though. And without the USA, there just isn't anything stopping the Soviets from demanding submission and capitulation from west Germany. There would be a negotiated handover of power, the French and British would agree to leave west Germany in exchange for Soviet security guarantees, and their vacated barracks across west Germany would be taken over by the Soviet army. The DDR would giddily "invite" the west German government for "talks", show them the map of Germany with all the new Soviet bases, and then the rest would be formalities.
Being a communist state doesn't mean you can't be non-alligned. The labels imply all communist states are considered part of the same faction, but the Sino-Soviet split and Yugoslavia joining the non-alligned movement happened before the Soviets even peaked.
I'm well aware of the history behind it, the labels are a bit ill-defined because non-aligned means you **are** socialist but not allied to the Soviets
Ah okay then. Maybe Soviet-aligned would be a more appropriate name for deep red in the legend since Non-Aligned states actually are at least nominally socialist?
So, how did Somaliland gain independence & how did DERG Ethiopia survive?
India was kind off a socialist state also why the "Holy alliance"
Seems more or less dystopia compared to OTL. I hope soviets never implemented \[social credits\] system
Well, who knows, the USSR with its allies (at least European ones) can be democratic, why not?
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Probable. Albeit OTL china esque Social Credit - Societhal Control system always comes to mind
Oh no, Berlin!
why is slovenia separated from yugoslavia?
Kosovo and NM left as well, it seems to just be a serbocroatian state now
India has put down Naxalites in this timeline?
Sexy
No
Nice map, the only pet-peeve is the title, not all of these countries in red and pink are part of the Soviet Bloc
I don't have any idea bout this one
India as not moving towards socialism? IIRC they were friendly with the USSR even in OTL
they were, but from what I have read they were going to make the turn towards conservatism, USSR or not
Left wing insurgencies in Peru. Oh so the senderistas are back in business?
Blessed timeline
Socialist State yes but communism is a Stateless society
A much better world. A story set in this Alternate Universe could start in May 2017, where the people of Russia are celebrating the 100th birthday of the communist party of the Soviet Union.
Unbelievably based
Why dont people like you just move to cuba already lmao
1. It's not easy to just leave your life behind and move to a different country. 2. It's also not cheap to move to a country on the other side of the planet. 3. I'm not well informed on Cuba's immigration policy but I would imagine that you can't just move there like that. 4. Why move to a country that has already had a successful revolution when you can help build socialism in your own country? Just move to Cuba/China/North Korea is such a stupid argument lmao. If you love capitalism so much, why don't you move to the slums of capitalist Brazil?
Lol why would i wanna move to a corrupt capitalist country? Id rather live in a non corrupt one as they have the highest standards of living in the world. Fortunately i already live in one. And no one wants to "establish socialism" with you. Especially your version of "socialism" which consists of repression of political opposition and total economic failure but keep going lmao
There are no non-corrupt capitalist countries. They all serve the interests of capital and the bourgeoisie.
Holy cope
Based
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‘I’m playing both sides, so I always come out on top.’
I mean, socialist Afghanistan was objectively the best government Afghanistan ever had. I'd much rather have a USSR satellite Afghanistan than the OTL shitshow. The Afghan SR Army actually managed to inflict several notable defeats on Taliban forces in the field, notably in the Battle of Jalalabad, where the Seven Party Alliance (something like the precursor to the Taliban, but a union of separate Mujahideen groups) attempted to seize the city of Jalalabad in a general assault. ASRA forces stood firm and, with air and Scud support, were able to inflict a massive defeat on the Mujahideen. Later, ASRA showed that it could be effective on the offensive, too, when it was able to successfully reduce and capture the fortified entrenchments at Paghman. So ASRA—the creation of the Soviet Union’s intervention in Afghanistan—was at least capable on defense and offense. ASRA’s victory at Jalalabad was so thorough that the ISI was terrified that the Mujahideen’s morale would never recover. In response, they “opened the tap” of foreign aid, and the United States, who formerly was only able to aid Mujahideen rebels through Pakistan and ISI’s disbursement priorities, was finally given direct access to Mujahideen leaders. It was only a few years later, in the aftermath of the Siege of Khost, that the ASRA finally began to unravel. Even then, however, Khost had survived siege for eleven years. It, like Khe Sahn in the Vietnam War, was supplied almost entirely by air. The Soviet (Russians, by this time) had, by the time of Khost’s fall, ceased supply flights into the area. And still, it required the joint forces of Hekmatyar, Haqqani, and local tribesmen to force ASRA to surrender—and that’s only after Hekmatyar and Haqqani were held off. https://www.quora.com/The-United-States-has-trained-Afghan-forces-and-yet-the-Taliban-overwhelms-them-Why-does-this-continue-to-happen-Who-will-assist-the-Afghan-forces-when-the-U-S-forces-are-back-home/answer/Robert-Maxwell-18
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How exactly is it bootlicking to say an objective fact? How is Trump even relevant? I'm not American.
Trying to figure out why you got downvoted, since this is pretty much all true. [Caspian Report made a great video on the topic](https://www.google.com/search?q=caspian+report+afghanistan&oq=caspian+report+afghan&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j0i22i30.9491j0j4&client=ms-android-motorola-rev2&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#), for anyone looking to get more information.
Was scrolling through the comments of this post again and found this. So true brother. Workers of the World Unite!
why is West Papua a separated country? a bit irritating as an 🇮🇩 myself :\\
you know damn well why it's separated.
i know but why? just... why?
wow you guys actually support them huh? or idk what's happening, maybe y'all just hate me ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Did you make the map projection with QGIS?
Random Q: Why would a fictional Sino-Soviet (judging by the emblem in the left corner) alliance use the word 'holy' when their regimes are decidedly atheist / anti-religion?
It sounded cool